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Mastering Marketing Without the Overwhelm: Small Steps, Big Wins
96 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of The Better Contractor podcast, Brent Oberlink is joined by marketing expert Amber Callan and co-host Travis May. Amber’s journey was not a clear path, but it landed her where she is today. Amber dives into actionable marketing tips for businesses, including how to efficiently use your Google Business profile and repurpose existing content. Travis contributes his insights on integrating foundational marketing with dynamic social media strategies, underscoring the importance of building a genuine brand presence. Tune in for a blend of personal stories and practical advice designed to help you elevate your business and connect more effectively with your audience.
#EffectiveSales #RelationshipBuilding #AuthenticSelling #BusinessGrowth #SalesStrategy #CustomerFirst #PodcastEpisode #TheBetterContractor #SalesTips
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Transcript
Starting a Business with Uncertainty
00:00:00
Speaker
I think that's kind of the thing that's so special, especially in starting a new business, right? It's like, you don't have to have all the answers. If you can get started and follow that data, follow some experts, get some opinions, I would sort of say like, we want to start things with our best guess.
00:00:15
Speaker
Like we wanna start things with our most educated, like, hey, here's what all the experts say, let me go execute it. And then you guys will find your rhythm from there, right? Not everyone's journey looks the same.
Guest Introduction: Amber from Agile
00:00:38
Speaker
fro Welcome back to another edition of The Better Contractor. Today, I am joined by my co-host again. He's had a little break Travis. I don't know if you even know you've had a break. There's like three podcasts without you on it. now Do not take those personal. But the professor is back. Travis, good to see you man. as well Also joined by Amber with Agile. So you guys, if you've paid attention to our podcast, you've seen a few agile names and faces come across and and Amber is another one of those who we are thrilled to have on today. Amber.
00:01:08
Speaker
I'm so excited to be here, Brent and Travis. Thank you so much for inviting me. I know Chance and Jackie had an incredible time. So I'm excited. It's my turn. Yes. Yes. We're excited to have you.
Choosing the Right Vendors
00:01:18
Speaker
So as we've talked in previous podcasts, you know, your vendor relationship and who you picked to do, you know, these key things, whether this marketing, accounting, your attorneys, whatever, they're just as important as people you hire inside your organization. So I am very happy with everything Agile has done. So thus, when I try to think of who to talk marketing on the podcast, obvious is you guys. So you guys listen. yeah I'm going to be shouting you out brand for a lot of business things as well. Right. To me too, I think when we're talking about, especially with young contractors or young entrepreneurs, right? It's like, you have to be able to learn from these experts or people that have been through it. So to me, I'm so lucky, you know, from growing our own marketing agency and everything you both have done in the business world, like
00:01:59
Speaker
This is an incredible resource for anyone who's, you know, trying to get their business to grow or trying to get something new off the ground. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's learning, you know, there's so many podcasts I listen to like just driving on the road or whatever. And that's always the same thing, like trying to find something that somebody else has dealt with learn from that they can teach me. So same thing with this. So guys listening, this is one of those podcasts. I think that you'll want to get a pen and paper out, take some notes. And we're going to spit some fire on this one. You need to be taking notes and then implementing those notes. So execute guys execute.
Amber's Background and Career Path
00:02:29
Speaker
So Amber, tell us a little bit about your background. Obviously I know, but the listener does not know. Tell us who you are and what you do. Yeah, of course. I'll take you back to the beginning. So I ah was born in Fort Walton Beach, Florida. Dad was a C-130 pilot in the Air Force. My mom always worked with numbers. Started as a NAT teacher, was ah in missile defense contracting at some point. So I come from parents who you know were working really hard and just you know always thought that you know your mind was the most important thing. right You could do anything you put your mind to. So in the Air Force, as an Air Force brat, I think I moved to about 17 different houses by the time I was 22 and moved out of my parents' home. So for me, when it comes to you know the adversity and trying to come up against new things and get across them,
00:03:13
Speaker
I mean, that's everyday life when you're moving around every six months to three years, right? So we spent some time kind of all over the US, even a little bit in England and Germany. So for me, that was really exciting to come back to the US. Went to school at Rice University in Houston.
00:03:27
Speaker
actually did my major in psychology, really loved um the user experience of things, right? Why your mind is drawn to certain elements. Did a lot of research actually in voting booths. So in November, i'm I'm reminded of this every time I go vote, right? The whole system behind where you put your ballot, how does that whole process work? You know, I did a lot of research and, you know, had some publications around that, but for me also did a um minor in biochemistry. So ah how I got in marketing, I'll get to in a second, but I really thought I was going to be in medicine, right? You know, I did my CNA in high school, was an EMT in college, and ah college kicked my ass a bit, right? Came in the first semester and organic chemistry ah was, it was quite a look at, do I really want to do this? Can I go through with it?
00:04:12
Speaker
and found that love in psychology. So for me, my junior to senior summer, like everyone else in my class, I'm looking for an internship. I'm applying for things at Google, at Meta, looking to all those big boys. Didn't end up landing anything. So I ended up right back here in St. Louis. And I was just looking for any job that would take me, right? So little did I know this little WordPress developer internship at a company called Leap Clicks would stand out to me. you know I had built my own blog at the time. I thought I knew enough HTML for it.
00:04:43
Speaker
And ah luckily Chance hired me from there, right? So I think for me, it was something where senior year, I saw a lot of my friends struggling to land that full-time job while they're trying to finish all their studies. And for me, it was something where Chance at the time said, hey, we'd love to have you full-time and we want you to be involved in more of the marketing side and less of the development side.
00:05:02
Speaker
So for me, I think that that whole, you know hey, I didn't get the big job I thought I wanted and ended up at a small company here in St. Louis, really just opened up the possibilities and changed my life even to this day. right So starting as an intern, you know about a year and a half ago, I was brought on as a partner at our marketing company. I've been here about 12 years. So I really got to see the growth in our own business. right When I started here, it was three people, two of the partners at the time, and then me.
00:05:30
Speaker
And, you know, we were probably doing maybe six figures at that time, where today, I know, you know, having about an eight-figure company, seeing things move from one point to the other, growing a team, making sure everyone's getting developed and bringing companies along with
Growth of Agile and Client Relationships
00:05:44
Speaker
it, right? I still have a couple companies where it's like, Hey, do you remember you were one of my first clients when I started here at the marketing firm? And now, you know, like 10, 11 years later, it's so nice where you can look back and go, I help with that company's growth. And that to me is just like,
00:05:58
Speaker
the most endearing thing, right, to have people go, Ooh, I was able to hire someone new. Or, Hey, we've seen these things grow. Or, Hey, now I can sell the company. Or, Hey, I can take this big vacation, because it's grown so much, and other people are able to handle the work, right. So that's the kind of stuff that really lights me on fire with our job. It's kind of seeing everything in everyone's businesses that we kind of get to affect by bringing in the leads, bringing in the brand awareness, and making changes in terms of the day-to-day.
00:06:24
Speaker
So that's the cool part is watching the growth. You know, so Noah and I were talking the other day, actually about like what excites me as an entrepreneur. And it's, it's really building. It's creating something, growing it, building it, improving it. That's where the fire's at. And I think like with you, what you just described, it's the same thing. You're, you're creating content, you're, you're helping these clients grow. And like you said, the ones you've had for a decade or whatever, gosh, you've seen some drastic changes with those companies. So yeah and one thing I want to clarify real quick, leak clicks, just so you guys are aware,
00:06:53
Speaker
was agile a few years ago. So agile. Yeah. ra who's sleep click Oh, yes. We did a big rebrand a couple years back. So yes, I know. Um, you know, we had some partner changes and we just wanted a brand that felt more like ours. I'm sure some of you guys can relate. Yeah. Oh yeah. Uh, but no, you guys have done awesome. So psychology background and to marketing, that's that's an interesting one. I, psychology is a,
00:07:19
Speaker
but one of my favorite topics, like we talked about it way too much. um But it's also super critical, I think, in leadership as well. But has that helped you at all?
Psychology's Role in Marketing
00:07:27
Speaker
Oh, I think so. I even think it kind of adds that sort of like secondary view at a lot of the things I'm doing, right? Because it's like when I go look at a website,
00:07:36
Speaker
There are certain things that I know based on the background that, oh, people are going to be drawn to this, or even just when you're writing ad copy, right? There are a lot of things that we'll discuss that are based in psychology, right? So if you understand some of the basics behind that or why people are drawn to certain things, I do think it helps give you that kind of edge, right? I feel like when you're in marketing, a lot of those do kind of go hand in hand. So I think it was just kind of a a luck of the draw that a lot of the things I was studying in school ended up actually coming into play with this role. That's cool. That's cool.
00:08:05
Speaker
um What is something, one of the first questions I had, what is something, so you envision this young entrepreneur is just getting started, young contractor, whatever whatever he's doing, he here or she's doing, what is some tips that you would give that younger person to just kind of getting their feet wet into business? What are some things for that level? And then we'll kind of move into maybe somebody's been in business for a while. yeah Is it doing things quite right? Like failing the stuff, but let's, let's look at that first one first.
Essential Tips for New Entrepreneurs
00:08:31
Speaker
That's perfect. So I think for me, especially when you're starting out and really looking to grow, right? Marketing is going to play a role in that. So to me, normally when I sit down and talk to people for the first time, We're really looking at four things, right? I wanna know your goals. I wanna know what time you have available to contribute to those, right? When you're getting a business off the ground, there's a lot to be done, right? So is it you that's gonna shoulder the you know they'll work that needs to be done with some of these things? Or is it you know you have investment, you have money where you can go hire experts or bring people in to do that work for you? And also who's your audience, right? So much of marketing goes back to who exactly are you targeting and making sure the avenues that you do that in
00:09:10
Speaker
fit your audience, right? Um, especially when it comes to that audience, I'm just thinking of a client, you guys know me, I'm bigging in the digital space, right? Highly quantifiable results. I can see a click to a conversion to a sale. And I love being able to trace that through line. Now I have a client out in Colorado, they just do bunion surgery, right? So for them, when they're targeting this older audience, those newspaper ads still kill it for them. Why? Because that's where their audience is, right?
00:09:37
Speaker
So I think for me, you know, when we're looking at some of those different items, um, to me, there are so many different ways that you can go get started, right? So first I figure let's talk about organic. And what I'm talking about organic is it's free. Like put your hands on the keyboard, get to it. All it takes is time. What can you do? So social media is a big part of that, right? You know, the drill. Anyone can go set up an account of their own with that. Um, and this kind of gets into what maybe we'll talk about later in terms of some of those mistakes.
00:10:04
Speaker
Just get started. You guys know, like when you start posting content, is it perfect? Is it the vision that you imagined it would be? No. But it's better to get started and learn those skills along the way rather than continually wait for something to be perfect, right? So again, with those social media platforms, make sure you're targeting where you think that audience is, right? Is it Facebook? Is it TikTok? Is it LinkedIn? right Where on those platforms would your audience be? Because that will be more easy to cultivate that audience and start engaging with them. right Even in the SEO sense, and that's search engine optimization,
Organic Growth Strategies
00:10:38
Speaker
right how can we make your website, even if it's new, even if it's been around for a while, how do we make that ranked number one when people are searching for it? right There are really simple things, especially if you have a location-based business.
00:10:51
Speaker
If you don't have that Google business profile, I need you to pause on this podcast, go get one and write down that location. Why? It's so important to be able to have a place people can get reviews, get directions, read more about you guys and discover you when they're searching for that business near them, right? Even such things as, you know, getting directory listings, right? Google My Business isn't the only spot to do it.
00:11:14
Speaker
yellow pages, Yelp, put your name, address, phone number on Facebook, right? You want to make sure that a lot of your business details are correct across the board. Again, all of that's free. It doesn't take anything but time to go get it done. So for me, that's something where even in the organic side, you want to make sure a lot of those basics are taken care of before you start jumping to other things, right? You guys do an incredible job at this as well is content creation. Again,
00:11:41
Speaker
you get out that iPhone, you get out that Android, the video you record on that is wonderful. So to me, whether it's writing blog content, recording videos, adding resources, things like that to your website that your audience can find helpful, to me, any of that I think can sort of start getting you some growth, start getting you some attention and get your feet wet before it's like you have this big audience and now you have to perform for them, right? I think that's kind of the that's so special, especially in starting a new business, right? It's like, you don't have to have all the answers. If you can get started and follow that data, follow some experts, get some opinions. I would sort of say, like, we want to start things with our best guests. Like, we want to start things with our most educated, like, hey, here's what all the experts say, let me go execute it. And then you guys will find your rhythm from there, right? Not everyone's journey looks the same.
Paid Advertising Options
00:12:29
Speaker
What I think as well is after you've attacked some of these free things, you might be interested in getting into some paid options. And again, this is just with the idea that you have some investment, you have some money to put into it, right? Which may everyone may not.
00:12:41
Speaker
So for me, there are a lot of different advertising platforms we look at, whether it's on Google, either the search ads, the local service ads, even display ads, video ads, whatever might fit your business best. You could also look at those same social media platforms, right? So if you feel wholeheartedly that your business is on LinkedIn, right? You need very specific business professionals.
00:13:03
Speaker
LinkedIn ads is a great way to get a hold of them, right? You don't need any organic network to reach those people off the bat. Google search is a great place to start for a lot of businesses because that's exactly it, right? You can pay to play. You don't have to wait the months and months for SEO to work, right? You can immediately get up in the top in that mix where suddenly you can start bringing in leads and start to fund other efforts. I especially think ah the contractors in particular will want to do a little Googling about those local service ads.
00:13:30
Speaker
So Google does offer these Google guaranteed programs for contractors, right? So that's kind of where you submit a bunch of insurance documents. You submit some certifications. you know Google wants to know all these things where they say, yes, I back you. I have looked into this business. It is good. They have reviews. They have the certifications you're looking for. Go choose them. And those ads actually appear above all of the search ads.
00:13:55
Speaker
So to me, it's like that's the first spot you want to go. So if I'm running any kind of like home services or kind of contractor business, that may be one of the best spots. And the best thing about those is you actually only pay for the good leads, right? So if you get a lead that calls you and goes, hey, I'm looking for so and so, but I'm in the next state over, you go, hey, we don't service that. And Google will give you a sort of credit on your next bill. that you don't actually get charged for that. So for me, it's sort of knowing that where these avenues are and knowing where the risk and reward can be, right? Those local services ads slam dunk because you can put on a little investment. And if you get some of those credits back, that can keep funding those ads for months to come. And you get that visibility you may not have organically, right? I even think when it comes back to basics in terms of like,
00:14:41
Speaker
sponsorship or press releases, things like that as well, right? There are free resources you can go sign up for. More particularly, I'm thinking about like, I think it's help a B2B writer, or there are a couple others out there where when people are looking for trusted sources on their news article, they can put out a little post and then it'll sort of email you and go, hey, so-and-so is looking for someone who specializes in, ah you know, landscaping to tell them XYZ about koi ponds.
00:15:08
Speaker
Well, great. If that fits you, you have an opportunity to appear in those articles where you may not have had that option otherwise, right? You just got to be one of the first ones on it and giving them that information they need. So for me, I definitely think, you know, like, that's a great place to get started and can fund some of those organic
Direct Communication with Customers
00:15:24
Speaker
efforts. And you guys know, like, that train gets to roll in, right? So for me, it's even once you've done some of those things, started to build your audience,
00:15:31
Speaker
Where do you take them from there? If you can get directly to their email, get directly into, you know, like a text message, something like that, right? Now you don't have to worry about paying for them or them sort of looking for you to rediscover you. You can reach them directly with offers or updates on your business and pull things in from there. Okay. So one thing you said the word pay to play at one point. Yes, sir. And and I don't think a lot of people realize how important that is nowadays. I think they think I can just create a post, post a whole bunch. The algorithms will love me and I will all of a sudden have a following. But unless you're creating like viral content, it typically does not work, right? It almost needs to be a pay to play program, right?
00:16:12
Speaker
100% and that's where I think the the money and time aspect is so important, right? And both of those go along with your goals. So if it's something where you're like, I need
Investing in Advertising
00:16:20
Speaker
to see results right now. Like if a potential client comes to me and says like, I need clients in my door or this business closes down.
00:16:27
Speaker
I'm going, don't waste your time with organic, right? That takes time to develop and cultivate that audience and cultivate some of that discoverability, where you're exactly right, Brent, like you can put the money in, start appearing for those searches and start pulling in leads now. Now, I would also say that even that can take time to sort of um optimize and make sure that all those leads are high quality, like what what keywords are working best for you, what platforms are working best But you're absolutely right. I mean, to me, the pay-to-play aspect is the easiest way to get in front of people. It just requires that money and the sort of correct setup, right? And even in something like those local services ads, Google's making it easier and easier for people to run ads these days without some more of that technical knowledge that people in my company might have, right? So you're absolutely correct. I mean, having that investment and having that money can shorten the timeline that you guys need to achieve the goals you're looking for.
00:17:20
Speaker
and don't Don't feel bad to give yourself a shout out too. Cause I know you guys do a lot of stuff behind the scenes. Like it's not just like hitting the little boost button or just, you know, create the ad and just run with it. Just throw money at it. Oh, that's right. Oh yes. And I've even seen, you know, like people will try and run their own ads and Google does make it very easy to do that. Right. Like they have these things called smart campaigns where you just give Google your website and go, okay, Google run my ads.
00:17:46
Speaker
there is a lot more to it, right? So for me, it's just sort of making sure that you guys are appearing for the right keywords. Like, I don't want Google to sort of misinterpret something on your website and go, Oh, yes, you know, like when someone's searching for, you know, um you know, a dog training, um you know, tips near me, right? Are they looking for tips? Or are they looking to hire someone, right? I want to make sure we get to those people that are looking for sign me up for a dog training class today, right? So there there is a lot more to it, but I will say that is definitely the move Google's making, right? They want your money, you know? So they want it to be as easy as possible for you to go, here's my website, here's my business, let me run some ads. But yes, Brett, I mean, you'll definitely see some better results if you can run some of the more minute aspects of it and sort of train that a little bit more manually. But, you know, Google is making it easier. So again, sort of like we talked about earlier,
00:18:39
Speaker
Getting started is a huge part of this, right? So if you've got to start with some more of those smart campaigns until you're learning more and you get into that in more depth, that's okay too.
Taking Action and Balancing Marketing
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah. I think that last statement is a good one for you guys to listen to is just get started. There's a lot of people that keep delaying and won't do it. A lot of the times the best thing to do is just take some action. Will it be perfect Ralph? Probably not going to be perfect, but at least you're making progression going forward.
00:19:04
Speaker
Travis, before I move into what a lot of people fail at, do you have anything on the topics and advice part? For anybody, whether they're just starting the the business out or theyve they've had a business for a while, and this is just one component, and I'd see i'd say it's an It depends on on how you look at it, but it's an add-on to the core business. So whatever the business is, if you're land clearing or you're landscaping, hardscaping, tree care, lawn care, that's your primary focus. And app your attention, your time, your money is getting pulled in all different directions. And and I think for for them too is it can be laser focused on
00:19:56
Speaker
I don't have time for all of that. I've got to go get clients. Clients and money coming in the door, that pays the bills. And if I don't get that, then I don't get anything. And so there can be a trap that one, the following two is, yes, that is important. So then I guess that first question would be, so that would be maybe a new business or a business that that's still trying to get a footing ah of where does actually marketing fit into this thing when I've got a crew of two and my mind and time and energy and stress and family and work and everything's being pulled and everything. I've only got so much. Where does marketing fall in versus as a gimmick of something that I should invest in? And then the flip side is it could be a self-fulfilling kind of prophecy, if you will. if So you get focused on whatever the core business is going to give clients and bringing money in. And then you find like, well, umve got I've got some success there. Why do I need marketing?
00:20:54
Speaker
yeah And so I guess for somebody who's just starting and they're trying to divide their attention one, and like where does marketing fall in the value proposition? Where is it in the priority? Where should where should I actually get started? um Where is it important? And then the business that maybe has been around for a little bit and has seen success.
00:21:17
Speaker
Where should I get started? Why should I bring in marketing? Where does it fall in the value proposition? I get this a little bit coming from to have never ask a barber if you need a haircut because it's always going to be yes. I'm talking to a marketing professional asking them how important is marketing. So like for the business owner, whether it's brand new or been in business for what?
00:21:37
Speaker
Why should they care? Why, where should that be in the priority? and And do you maybe have any examples or anything where clients that, that can maybe tell a story ah of how it transformed or their perspective or something that can help validate rather than just us promoting marketing. Yeah. So I always think too, Travis, like the marketing stuff we're discussing doesn't have to be your whole day, right?
00:22:03
Speaker
So that's what I always try and talk about, especially with people who you're right, running a business is a lot of work. You do get pulled in so many different directions. So the advice I normally give when I'm doing these kinds of talks is give yourself 10, 15 minutes a day, baby. Even from this podcast, you're going to get a laundry list of things to go do just start working through them. Right. Cause to me, it's like with some of these items, you know, it isn't something where I need you to sit at your desk and I need you to work on some of these things. Right. If you're out in the field, you can take photos and upload those to your Google business profile. You know how long that might take, that 20 seconds maybe at most, right? So there are certain things that you do throughout your day where I sort of want you to consider how many of those that I'm already doing, could I be using in a marketing aspect as well, right? So for example, we have one company where they do painting, right?
00:22:51
Speaker
They're taking before and after photos just so they can show their clients the difference. I'm like, send me that entire Google Drive, pair those up for me because that's marketing, right? I can use all of those assets that you are already doing in your day to day. Start putting those on your social profiles. Start using those on your landing pages, on your website. So to me, I'm always that kind of person that goes, if we're going to do something once, I want to learn how many different places we can reuse that at, right? So I'm not asking you to sit down, especially if you have your business, you're doing a million things and go,
00:23:20
Speaker
Today is a marketing day, right? I think the consistency matters and I don't think the amount of time needs to be that long to make a dent here, right? So to me, especially when I'm sitting down, I'm going, okay, I have 10 minutes, what am I going after? The consistency and correctness is going to be far important than other things you can do, right? So to me, especially if I'm sort of getting a business off the ground or maybe I've neglected my marketing for some time,
00:23:47
Speaker
I would want to have a look at your Google business profile and your website above all else right those two places are likely the things people are coming in with can to contact the most with before they reach out to your business. I would even say like bring friends and family into that experience.
00:24:03
Speaker
Get them to look at your website, right? Get them to go leave your a review, get this jumpstart where they want to support you, right? They see how hard you're working. You know, if you go to them and say, Hey, would you look at my website? I just want to want to make sure it's the best. So if a potential customer sees it, there's not anything wrong, right? People would be happy to help you with that. And I also think that gets you buy in for your journey, right? Cause that may be something too, where I have especially seen when we were really in this like growth phase, especially at the beginning, right? You do get busy.
00:24:34
Speaker
It's something where there may be sacrifices you're making on the family side or even personal side to get things done. When when I'm able to bring some of those people in and go, I have been working really hard on this like employee handbook, right? Would you take a review and just let me know what you think? Well, all of a sudden, like you know I'm getting my sister's buy-in and going, oh, I see what you're doing. Let me adjust a couple of things.
00:24:55
Speaker
Marketing can be the same, right? Hey, can you look at this video? Is this good enough to post on Instagram? You know, give me your feedback, right? So that's something to me is important. I would also say too, Travis, like if you're looking for. What strategies am I going to employ to work harder? Go check your competitors,
Competitive Analysis and Innovation
00:25:11
Speaker
right? You should have people in your area or maybe not in your area, but in your space that you can go look at. So as a marketing agency, that's one of the first things we're going to do for all of our clients, right?
00:25:21
Speaker
I even have clients that will go through and like secret shop their competitors every once in a while. Like I have one where he explicitly does this every six months, right? Goes in, kind of pretends to be someone who's looking for a deck renovation, reaches out to a couple of different companies and gets all of that information before actually going through with the project, right? He just wants to see if his prices are in line, you know, or is he justifiably higher for a reason? Is there something in the sales process someone else is doing that he kind of wants to take and incorporate in his? Is there something where he goes, no one else is doing this and we are, or, Hey, I heard this thing on a podcast. No other company is doing that right now. Can that set me apart?
00:25:59
Speaker
So I think for me, it's like, you know, it's it's not this big commitment that everyone thinks it is. You can accomplish some of those smaller things. And to your point, I mean, the whole idea of what these podcasts and some of these resources are, there are so many experts here to guide you. But to me, I really think like, even if you took those 10 minutes and watch a YouTube video on how to do something, it's going to get you up to speed a lot faster and it's going to make you feel like you know what you're doing instead of like, Oh, I got to start marketing. What does that mean? Right? So you can't break it down into these smaller chunks.
00:26:30
Speaker
I like that. And Travis, you mentioned something about like the customer who maybe is already booked. Maybe they're already busy. Maybe they're established. I know a lot of people will think marketing only really deals with sales, meaning I need new customers. So therefore I'm marketing for that. Amber, correct me if you disagree, but I think marketing can and should be about telling your brand, your story, your culture, all those different things. Like you can actually build a kind of a community as well. So even if you are that established brand,
00:27:00
Speaker
is never going to not be beneficial for you to tell your story, to have the brand recognition, the name recognition to to create that community. Right. And for me, Brent, it's like, are you happy with where you are? You know, do you not want to grow your business? Do you not want to hire more people to do what you do? Right. And in my opinion,
00:27:18
Speaker
If you are starting to market from a place of power, that is so much more powerful than when you are hungry and you need marketing to survive, right? So to me, that's a perfect opportunity, right? Is demand is a huge factor in the marketing biz, right? If you say, I only have one appointment this month, y'all want it. Is that something where you should raise your prices? Is that something where you need more people on your team to sort of support the work you're bringing in?
00:27:41
Speaker
Right. So I would agree that like, if you start from a place where you're like, we are busy, do we need marketing? To me, I'm saying you may not need it this very minute, but what about next month? What about in winter when things slow down?
Maintaining an Online Presence
00:27:53
Speaker
Right. Do you want to be booked out till next year? Or is it something where, Hey, I'm okay with where things are today. I'm not looking for the future. That's a good point. It's a good point. All right. It's just this. this ties into other conversations that we've had based on what we were just saying with it. So I mean, nothing stagnant, nothing stays still. The world is moving around us. We're moving. Things are constantly changing.
00:28:17
Speaker
in the digital age that we live in, if you don't have a presence, that's the first place that most people are going to look at. And so even if you put something out there, is it stale? Is it still representative of of your story, of your brand? And then as you get into, as you were saying, go shop up the competition. What's your competition doing? ah If they're significantly outperforming and so telling their story, regardless of whether they're actually better than you or not,
00:28:45
Speaker
That's going to be what other people judge and choose to engage with you, whether it's an existing client or an potential new one. So it could be somebody who's always been with you or has been with you for, and they see a much better story being told um by your competition. It might not get into the switch, but it definitely plants a seed of doubt. And then I think this gets into a little bit of the boil in the ocean and it might be a good segue into the fails to of I think it could be overwhelming. And I know it has for me at times me because I love technology. I love innovation. I love seeing the world swirling around us and evolving just all the the change. And I think we live in a unique time too. of once you It could be a rabbit hole and it can it can manifest into fear. The more you look into what your competition or what's available or what other people are doing,
00:29:43
Speaker
if especially if you haven't been on top of that and you've got a good website, you've got some reviews and stuff, and but you're not doing anything crazy, you're just maybe doing the basics and making sure that you're doing some sort of marketing. When you see these TikTokers and ah branding and videoing and crazy stuff that's out there, that could be enough. If that's not your personality or that hasn't been your brand or you're like, where do I even start with that?
00:30:12
Speaker
And ah that, for me, would be potentially overwhelming if I was just coming from zero to like, I've got to go do all of that. I don't even like being in front of a camera. Now I've got to go run around with a camera everywhere. like Dispelling, and mean and that can set up to failure too. you're Like, okay, well now I'm going to be inauthentic and I'm just going to put a bunch of stuff out there because I see somebody else doing it. and So dispelling kind of fact from fiction of Regardless of where they're at in their journey, it's important for them to have that digital representation, whether that's marketing their services to get new clients or telling their story as they're an existing brand. I guess, fact from fiction, what works, what doesn't, what should they focus on? If they're, okay, I'm buying into this, I'm hearing Amber, bam, we're gonna focus on marketing. I'm gonna go start looking at the competition. How do they avoid becoming, oh
00:31:09
Speaker
overwhelmed by
Balancing Marketing Strategies
00:31:10
Speaker
the stuff? What should they focus on versus ah getting started and just doing too basic? Okay, I've got Facebook and now I'm expecting that the leads come flooding in. Like where where do they start seeing success or not? And I mean, I'm kind of thinking out loud. I mean, so much of it's going to depend on who they are, what their personalities, what their business is, how established. so I guess answer all the questions for everybody out there. You've got a minute and a half. Well, Travis, I don't want to go back to your earlier point on that authenticity, right? Because I think to me that is so important. And even kind of what Brent was saying earlier that you're marketing some of the stuff with the number of reviews you have, the time you've been in business, storytelling, right?
00:31:56
Speaker
humans are pretty fickle when it comes down to that, right? So like if you want a fair shot at earning someone's business, some of those things may be the difference between someone calling you versus the competition, right? So to me, that's sort of something where it's like, are you giving yourself a fair shake when it comes to the competition? But you're absolutely right. You know, like if you can't follow it up and give them a good experience and deliver the product you're saying,
00:32:17
Speaker
things may not go well and sort of spiral from there, right? So that's kind of something where I do think your marketing does give you an opportunity to kind of give yourself a fair shake, make sure you can be trusted. And leading into that authenticity is also important. I always go back to this story really of chance, my business partner, where he sort of went to, you know, pitch this corporate meeting, right? You have five different agencies showing up on the same day to give their pitch, corporate trend, decide what they want to do.
00:32:44
Speaker
Every single person shows up in suits. And of course my business partner shows up in his t-shirt, flip-flops, everything he wears every day, right? And even just that alone, him standing out in the lineup is like, Hey, this is authentically me, right? I'm not going to bullshit you. I'm not going to put on a suit. That's not who I am.
00:33:00
Speaker
That to me, I have a hard time believing, didn't automatically sort of make them see him and he can stand out before he even says a word, right? So I would even say that to Travis and that's where to me, I even think people who come to me and say, do I really have to be on camera? Like, do I really have to do a Facebook video? To me, I always come back to them and I say, if you were sitting in front of me doing sales, would you not want an opportunity to have me fall in love with you before you even say a word to me? Like I have this electrician um really in like middle of nowhere, Illinois.
00:33:30
Speaker
Right. He does these amazing like Friday videos, just it's him sitting in his office, the phone. He just answers a question about something really simple and electrical like, Hey, this went wrong. What should I do? This man doesn't have any media training. Like he's not like you and I here doing this podcast, right? Like you can see he's clear. He might be eating his lunch while he does it. But to me, it is so authentic that I know it's not produced.
00:33:53
Speaker
I know he's not putting on errors. I appreciate that he's being honest with me in getting the education. So i wouldn't I wouldn't also take into consideration that like, you don't need something manufactured, right? You being you is an important part of telling your story. So don't let that kind of intimidate you, right? If you see all these like, ooh, I'm getting drone footage of my new deck, right? Baby, if that's not you, that's okay, right? You have to be authentic in your own way. So to me, Travis, to get back to your question in terms of how do I not make it feel overwhelming,
00:34:23
Speaker
I think comes back to some basic goal setting things for me, right? You have this big goal of, I want to grow my business. Well, you know, that's not as easy as let's just grow it. Right. Same thing with marketing. So to me, I always sort of take that goal, even when a client comes to me and goes, Hey, Amber, I want to double my leads this year. Maybe if I could have doubled your leads last year, I would have done it. Right. It's not like I'm going to snap my fingers and make it happen. So what do we do in order to reach that point?
00:34:48
Speaker
You're kind of breaking down this big goal into much smaller things that you can go in and achieve, right? So if you're taking this laundry list, even if you're looking at your competition, right? You're going, ooh, hey, this other deck, you know, kind contractor, when he does a job, he sends out a review link. He leaves a yard sign, right? I'm getting automated emails. I'm getting automated texts. To me, what I would do, start yourself a little list.
00:35:10
Speaker
then it'll give you an opportunity to kind of go through those, see what you think is important. Again, you can get opinions from other people in your industry, other people at your work, other people in your just general life, right? And just see what would make a difference for you. Cause I think to me, it's like, if you are trying to do everything all at once, you're going to burn yourself out very quickly, right? Like this isn't something where you work on marketing seven days a week and this is all you do. You won't have time for the rest of it, right? So to me, it is taking those smaller chunks and going,
00:35:38
Speaker
If I'm going to sit down today and do marketing for 10 minutes, I'm going to build up my google's business my Google business profile to the T. I'm going to get all the photos in there. I'm going to make sure it's excellent. And guess what? You may post on that every once in a while. But if you're happy with it, you may not need to touch it in some time. right I think, Travis, what you're talking about, um the social media side, I would say, is the one thing that does require more consistency than really anything else we're talking about. right So that's where, to me, if you are taking your content And you're posting the same thing on every single platform. I would try and dial into maybe the one or two you think your audience is on the most, right? If we're talking in generalities, maybe that's a Facebook, Instagram combo. You know, like I said, I would imagine that's probably the bulk of where your audience may want to take some of their marketing. But to me, that's something we're like, you know, even if it's posting one a week, you don't want to set yourself a schedule and go, Oh, I'm going to post every day. Cause you're going to run out really quickly on that. Right. And what I also try and do, and this is something our agency does is you want to make sure your time is being used as best as possible, right?
Planning and Adapting to Feedback
00:36:41
Speaker
I cannot sit down for a client and post, you know, something every single day on their Instagram, right? But I can take two hours and schedule out a whole month of posts, right? And then it makes it easy. So that train keeps rolling, gives me time to do other things for them and just make sure that that is going on where you don't have to take that time every day to do it. So I guess my whole point is I understand how it could be overwhelming. But I would break it down into these really small actionable goals. And I think that is the whole heart of marketing is monitoring and adjusting. I'm sure you've heard chants say it a million times, marketing is testing. So if Facebook starts to bring in a couple of leads for you, or you're getting calls that go, hey, yeah, I need someone to come out and look at this leak. Oh yeah, I heard about you guys on Facebook. I'm listening to that and I'm going, hey, if a couple of people called this week and said they heard about me on Facebook, guess where I need to put more of my effort, right?
00:37:32
Speaker
They're saying, hey, i yeah, I got your ad on Google. right Hey, I saw you on you know this billboard. Hey, I saw you in this newspaper. right I'm listening to what's happening with my marketing and then adjusting what I'm doing based on that data I get back to. And there are a ton of free tools to help you do that. I think there was a good distinction with social media. so i assume So the social media is the one that gets a lot of the attention nowadays, just because there's so much out there. There's so many people doing so many different things, and it seems to be constantly changing. there's almost endless amount of things that you can do. And it could be confusing or or tough to tell well what should I do and whether that's my personality or that's representative of my brand or not. right and And the time that it takes to do consistent social media engagements, whether it's writing, writing a blog post, writing social media posts, recording videos, like there's a ton that goes into it.
00:38:30
Speaker
And I know we've used a tool too, so if you're going to do on multiple platforms, there's tools that can help you and schedule out and things, but that in software. But I guess, so there there's that, i maybe call that dynamic marketing yeah versus traditional more stable marketing, where you've got the website, you've got the SEO, you've got the corpus. If somebody goes and looks you up, what are they going to see? Are they going to see reviews that are affirming and showing some social proofs that other people have used to you and you've got positive reviews? Do you have a ah good website that articulates who you are and what you do and it's pretty clear your service areas? So those would be more grounded, foundational, that
00:39:20
Speaker
almost our must-haves everybody should have and then the more dynamic stuff is where it can get pretty crazy pretty quick and and that might be really good areas to distinguish whether if you can yourself determine here are the two platforms or here are the two engagements where I think most of my customers are and I'm going to focus on that or you and I have a broader presence or whatever your goals are I need help and I might need an agency for this. If I know that that's where the growth of my company is going to come from, ah doing more of the dynamic stuff to you, and I know I don't have those skills, I need an agency. I need help. I need a vendor or somebody to help me with that. I mean, I guess they would potentially need it too with the foundational things. But I think yeah that was helpful. In my mind, out of everything you just said, there was a clear delineation between
00:40:20
Speaker
the tech, social media, current environment versus the core things that you should be doing. so Yeah. And I think Travis, you know, you're absolutely correct. I think that's a very smart comment to take from it, right? Is you got to get your basis going before you go ongoing work. And I would also say to your point about when is the point where I need a vendor or an expert or something like that to come in.
00:40:44
Speaker
There are ranges to that, right? I have clients that I just do consulting work with where it's like, if you want me to give you my opinion, my advice, what I would go do, and then you go execute that plan, that's okay, right? If that's where your business is at and that's where the investment and time shakes out to be, that's okay, right? I can i can give you those goals. I can give you a direction. And if you feel confident about executing those things, awesome, right? There's also, of course, like the more full service side, where like if you want us to just do Facebook ads, yeah, there are agencies that can just do smaller things for you or do it all together. So I think too, you know, like there may be varying degrees of that. What I've also seen is, you know, like there are some companies I work with, for example, especially in the social space. I've got one company, a local plumber here in the area where the owner will flat out tell you they are not on social media. They don't know anything about it.
00:41:35
Speaker
but they're looking to their team to find more of those strengths within it, right? So they had one of, you know, their their field workers who, you know, was kind of doing more social media stuff on the side, right? Even just doing little review videos, things like that on his social media profiles. Well, now he kind of splits his time doing some, you know, little bit of marketing stuff every once in a while, but he's still out there in the field getting that problem work done.
00:41:56
Speaker
So to me, whether it's like, Hey, do you have, you know, an internship you guys can offer for a summer? Do you have someone that, Hey, maybe one of the kids is involved? Maybe that's something that they want to get started in social media and help you guys out. So I always think too, it's like you, you may have more resources available than you realize, or things that are maybe perhaps a bit more affordable and kind of go in like, Hey, I need marketing help. I'm going straight to an agency. Right. Yeah.
00:42:21
Speaker
So one thing you brought up earlier too, that I kind of liked was like investigating your, your competition a little bit. So obviously we did that when we kind of onboarded with you guys, but it's actually really important, not just in marketing. I know. So Travis, when you lived in St. Louis, we had, we have a barber shop there that we started a few years back as kind of as a fun little project. And one of the things we did is we traveled to like sing or Tulsa, Chicago, New York, and basically just took a notebook and, you know, camera on her phone and we documented Love this hate this about all these different, like elite barbershop, these bigger cities, brought that back and kind of turned it into what would be the ideal one for St. Louis. Fun little project for us. It still exists a day. We haven't moved from downtown out to the Clayton area, but that was a neat one where we, we looked at the marketing too, you know, what marketing was working. And back then it was, you know, almost like these clips of like these cool before and after, you know, guy comes in totally scruffy and leaves looking like this. So those were a big hit back then.
00:43:20
Speaker
And then we still do straight shaves. So that was a lot of our focus for a while too, was showing the art of that old school shave, you know, with a straight razor. And then it was a complete throwback shop. So like the chairs were a hundred years old. They were made in St. Louis 1920. We, you know, this is, you know, a few years ago. So then you we highlighted that. So it was that storytelling through marketing, but a lot of that came about though, by kind of checking out the competition and seeing what worked, not repeating any one of them, you know, making our own.
00:43:49
Speaker
but saying Hey, this works really well. That doesn't work that well. That worked really great. So anyway, to kind of bring that point home a little bit for you too. Yes. And Chance always calls that ethical stealing for me. It's like, we're not going to go copy their ad word from word, but you know, even like meta, when we're talking Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn, they provide an entire ad library where you can look up a business or a keyword and see all those ads that are running. So for me, when I'm starting with a new business, it's like,
00:44:17
Speaker
let's go see what everyone else is doing. And the ads that have been on the longest, I'm just assuming are those top performers, right? I'm assuming they've been left on for a reason. So it's like, you're kind of giving yourself this leg up to go, let me learn from the things that they have done and just set myself up for success. And like you said, Brent, I mean, you can get a very easy idea when you're on the phone talking to someone's sales team and you're going, yikes, I would never buy from someone who said that. Okay, well, that's information you can go tell your team and just make sure you guys don't make that same mistake.
00:44:45
Speaker
speaking of mistakes, what are some major fails that you think some people do when they're first starting out or fail to do? So I think we've already talked about my main one, which is just not getting started, right? I even think of this too, when you're looking to take a jump into starting your own business, right? It's not something where you got to quit the current job and turn all of your resources and attention over, right? It's something where a couple hours in the evening getting yourself set up while you still have some of your resources and you know ah paychecks coming in right while you're getting this thing off the ground. But not getting started to me is the big miss. right When it comes down to it, like you it's sort of that opportunity cost of what is the risk of not getting started with some of this stuff. Even when I think of things that Google likes to see, right one of the big things that they want to look at is how long has your domain been around? right Are you an authoritative website? Are different websites linking back to you?
00:45:39
Speaker
You can't build anything of that up if you don't have the time behind it, right? So I think not getting started is a ah big point of our conversation here where it's like, baby, just go. Like you've got an idea of what you should go do, get some of these things written down and go execute on those, right? One of my big things, especially for our contractor audience is asking for reviews,
Leveraging Customer Reviews
00:46:00
Speaker
right? To me, that is the easiest way where you see social proof. It's one thing for me to sit here and go, agile and co, we're the best marketing agency. You have to work with us.
00:46:09
Speaker
It's another thing for us to come on here and Brent to go, this is agile and co. I love working with them. They have done some amazing things for my business. You should go with them. Right. And that social proof only adds up the more that you get it. Right. So it's like, it's not only Brent, if you have 10 people saying they're the best, they're the best. Well, I trust that a lot more than I trust me going, Hey, go with us. We're really good. So for me, it's always taken that opportunity. And I think there are ways that businesses can use some of that psychology stuff we're talking earlier to their advantage. So I actually had um someone come over to our house to do some free service, right? So one of their field workers was left and said, hey, you know, here's a little business card with a QR code. They say whoever gets the most reviews at the end of the year is going on a Disney cruise. So I would love it if you could leave me one and hopefully, you know, next time I see you, I'll tell you all about it.
00:46:59
Speaker
instantly. I mean, I'm a marketer, so I'm leaving him a review no matter what, but I'm going, I am getting John on this Disney cruise. Get on Google. Leave him that review right now. Right. Or even just making like a more personal plea. Like, thank you so much for your business. Like, you know, we're, we're just getting this thing off the ground. If you liked it, believing us to review would help us reach so many more people. We'd really appreciate it. Right. So there's some of these strings you can kind of pull on to make people go, there is no way he's leaving this house without me giving him a review. Right. And I think that that starts to grow, right? Like we talked about earlier, it gives your business that step up before someone even reaches or talks out to someone in your team. That's huge and in the contracting space, especially, you know, like you said, because ah there is a stigma that there's some that screw people over and there are stuff to do. And I think, you know, having that huge rating, you know, especially in numbers, great numbers, you know, we've done that before, even for a house where I've found one or whatever.
00:47:54
Speaker
And I'm not someone who normally looks at ratings. I'm not, you know, because a lot of reviews are usually negative. But I'll scroll through and like, okay, of the 10 I just read, seven of them like love this aspect. So obviously they are good at that. You know, so hiring kind of based upon that even. And for me, I think when I read them, I also pay attention to the bad ones and how the businesses responded to those. I remember we have a company here in St. Louis that does classic car restoration.
00:48:23
Speaker
And they had a very disgruntled customer that was kind of like, Hey, you know, for classic cars, um, which I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with this space, sometimes it can take like nine to 12 months before some of these shops can even get to your car. Right. but they're They're in so demand with so few experts. It's like, they're very booked up. So this man was very upset with the timeline, even though some of it was communicated to him, but the way that they responded to that review instantly made me trust them so much more.
00:48:50
Speaker
And I think to your point, Brian, it's not only the quantity of reviews, but the quality of them, right? If you have 20 reviews that are just five stars or say, great, did a great job, that doesn't mean as much as someone who's telling the story or sharing photos, right? Where it's like, I can tell that they did a really nice job. And I always look at like, you know, those four stars or those one stars, right? Am I okay with what that four star said they did wrong?
00:49:13
Speaker
Or you know if that response on a one star tells me that's a good person, because I love seeing even those people that will kind of admit when they're wrong. right We had a landscaping company in Colorado who did just that. right They had someone on the team that just was not performing well and got a couple of bad reviews because of it. right It was like, just so you know, like we deeply apologize. Here's what was going on. That person has since been like, go up, let us do this thing to make it up for you. right So like even in the way those reviews came back, it was like,
00:49:39
Speaker
You can tell that's a great owner, right? Just in the way you deal with the bad and the good says so much about what I'm getting into if I give you my money. Taking the ownership. Yes. There's there's a ah chart. I don't know who first put it out, but it's floating around, but it's the law of diffusion of innovation and talking about different innovations or technologies or things that actually make it into mainstream. And there's the early adopters and the the innovators, but there's a chasm.
00:50:09
Speaker
that has to be crossed and it's usually I think after about 13% that those that can successfully cross the chasm ah end up succeeding given to the early majority and they become a trend or a popular item I think. yeah But one of those key components for anything that crosses the chasm is social proof. Is that did other people ah engage with this and did they have a positive experience? And there's multiple different reasons. Some are psychological. I don't want to be the first one and I want some sort of safety net. that so So if you're looking at two different companies out there online and one has reviews and assuming they're positive and one doesn't, the majority of people who pursue one company to the other is the one that has reviews.
00:51:05
Speaker
And it's because it's checking that box of their social proof. I'm not the only one. Other people are validating this. And i know I'm not, I don't necessarily go out and seek the ones for reviews. it like Whether I go with a company or not isn't based on reviews, but if I can read reviews and I'll look at trends too. So you can typically tell.
00:51:29
Speaker
those who are are being over emotional or unhinged or there's like a personal thing like if they're leaving negative things or even in the positive ones too if they're they're whimsical but you can judge based on the type of review that they've left whether you think it's legitimate or not but you can see trends too and the good ah so you see a bad one a one star and the personally but you see it's flanked by multiple four or five stars You know that maybe that was just an individual or that was a one-off outlier But the overall trend or you see a bunch of positive and you see Three three two one one three two one over the last six months, you know something's changed or or a downtrend and then up an uptrend so you can pretty quickly see those that said even though even though
00:52:21
Speaker
It seems like it's such a ah little nuance thing. I think reviews are super powerful. I think you know responding in a good way allows you to actually what je or Amber was saying was actually allows you to almost resell yourself. Yes. And a what yeah they've got but and then even just like remembering details about that customer. Right. You know like I had an electrician over the house of course left him a review. And they responded and said, thanks so much, Amber. We love hanging out with your two dogs named them. We're like, give us a call if you need anything else. I was like, they remembered my dog's names. To me, that's an instant. Hey, I'm coming back to them. Right. And I think that's something that I don't see a lot ah and it's it's probably a very underutilized component of, I know I, I really pay attention when I see the management or the business response back good or bad.
00:53:12
Speaker
But then I also, it's a little bit of a detractor if it's the same kind of cut and paste, that's maybe inauthentic. but In contrast, I remembered your puppies, they're like, really appreciate your business on every single, or sorry you felt that way. We strive to and it's the same cut and paste. It's almost almost as if you didn't even do it. that but It's like we were saying earlier, you got to be yourself, right? Oh yeah. Well, so being yourself, I have one question for, I'm just curious your take on it. So you have a review and it is bad and it's very clearly, overly dramatic. What do you think of the person that replies and puts the person in their spot as a business owner? To me, I think if that is done well, not a bad thing. And to me, the reason why is just like, if it is not on my business,
00:54:05
Speaker
I'm going to let people know that. And I think that's always done in a very kind way, right? It's not like, Hey, you were the one that made this deal bad. It's like, Hey, I'm i'm so sorry. We couldn't come to an agreement on XYZ. You know, like if you're open to giving us another chance, we'd love to have you like, you know, something like that where for me, I just think it's important not to soup to their level.
00:54:25
Speaker
but to me also kind of like lay down the law, right? Hey, we're we sorry. You know, I have in our records, we called seven times. We were never able to get a hold of you. If you want to get that restarted, we are here for you anytime, right? So it's all about, I think, how you phrase it, right? It's kind of, and I think to me, it's kind of just like letting anyone who would read this know that if they were to come across it, it's like, you can probably tell the person messed up. i'm I'm kind of reading between the lines to know the truth of the situation, you know? Yeah, I was just curious. so I have a little bit of a different,
00:54:53
Speaker
take on that and some do, but I know there was one competitor we were researching one time and one of the reasons I respect them is their positive reviews were legit and they had a bunch of them. But if a negative review came through and it wasn't factual, like she went after them in such a witty smart LA way that you I was i and like very protective of her employees.
00:55:18
Speaker
factual, dramatic, but funny. I'm like, I kind of dig this a little as long as it's not like two over the top. But anyway, I'm curious your take. No, I agree. And I think if we're talking about some other mistakes, we we talked about a couple earlier in terms of like not understanding your audience, right?
Targeting and Ad Placement
00:55:36
Speaker
Um, so for example, that, that local plumbing company I was talking about, um, who just came on with us, they had been doing billboards for years. Their number one service they do is emergency plumbing, right?
00:55:46
Speaker
If I am having a leak in my basement right now, you know what I'm not doing? I'm not driving down the highway and going, where's the billboard, right? I'm going straight to Google and going, I need someone right now, someone who can give me a call, right? So I think it's just about understanding the audience and the context in which they're going to find you, which will kind of point you in what direction to go. um Documenting your work is another big one for me as well, right? I think we were chatting earlier about getting those before and after photos, but it's like,
00:56:12
Speaker
almost to that social proof idea, you want to be able to prove you can do what you say. So even if it's just a couple videos or like a couple images showing your work and the proof behind it, to me, that combination of other people sticking up for you and going, they're really good. They did a great job. And you also show in the work that you can do to me is just like a slam dunk of how can you not trust me? Yeah. What do you think of using billboards for like brand recognition? Like let's say you're a regional contractor, you're mainly working in St. Louis or a city.
00:56:40
Speaker
having a billboard or two that's more just like plumbing and then the brand more just so when you do Google it later, you're like, Oh yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah. think It has some value like within a budget. if If you had the budget for it. Yeah. And I think Brent, um, this may be a tough question because I do mainly deal in digital marketing, right? Here's my trouble with billboards. I think if you are using them from a brand awareness perspective and the prices, right? Sure. I can definitely see the value in it. My trouble is that, um,
00:57:11
Speaker
the results that come from a billboard can be very up in the air, right? So if someone takes a billboard, I'm basically looking at their analytics and I'm going, are more people directly finding your website? Are more people searching for your brand? Basically, are there indicators that that billboard is doing something for you? Same thing I would look at if someone was doing like radio ads or maybe like you know an ad in the hockey stadium nearby, right? It's like, is that doing something for you? Where even if you put a tracking number up there,
00:57:39
Speaker
How often is someone going, Oh, I need the service right now. I'm driving down the road. Let me put that number in. So I have a hard time when, you know, business owners will come and it's like, Oh, we're doing this billboard and we expect a ton of leads from it to me. That would not be the point of a billboard, but I could see to your point, Brent, like if you have the money and especially for someone kind of in your position, Travis, we were talking about earlier who business is doing really well, right? You just want to make sure your name's out there.
00:58:04
Speaker
A billboard may be a good idea for that, but I generally come back to the idea that, you know, if I'm looking to do brand awareness on Facebook or Instagram or Google display ads, I know that you're getting impressions and those can be a lot cheaper for the eyeballs that I know you're getting on
Data-Driven Marketing Decisions
00:58:19
Speaker
them. Right? So different things to weigh if you're looking at that. Trade show publication. We get hit by those a lot. and those are all We did toy with one last year and I think it returned zero. So.
00:58:32
Speaker
And that I think is all about knowing your audience too, right? Like if you have people that are consistently looking to those magazines or, you know, the trade show publications, things like that, you know, to me, I always kind of tell clients, I'm not afraid to try something once, but, and this is kind of one of the other mistakes I was thinking about was you have to follow the data, not your feelings about it, right? If you produce this big video and you run it on Facebook ads and it doesn't bring in a single lead, you cannot be afraid to cut it once you see performance is low.
00:59:01
Speaker
Same idea with some of these things, right? So if a client comes to me and goes, hey, you know, like we we ran a billboard, we ran a radio ad, we did a trade show publication and it brought us nothing. If I look at it and I go, well, I think that ad was pretty good. I'm probably not looking to go into that again, just because of that data and historical context, right? So for me, that's something too, where if you're looking at trade show publications or any other marketing activity, frankly, even holds the same weight for digital marketing, right? If the data is showing you that this thing is successful or it's not successful,
00:59:30
Speaker
You got to trust in that, right? Not, not your feelings about, Oh, well, I really think everyone's going to love this straight show publication. Well, if you ran an ad and you got nothing from it, you know, right? You paid that money to learn your lesson. So Amber, so you talked a few little negatives. Do you have any other ones you want to wrap up the podcast with? I think I'd be remiss if I didn't give you one from an agency perspective. So for me, I am always amazed by the amount of clients who begin engaging with experts, but leave them hanging, right? And what I'm talking about is like, if you are paying money to a vendor, an agency, a freelancer, you have to make sure you're giving them the tools to succeed. So for me, I think that's one of the main things where I'm like, if you are going to be a good client of mine, I'm expecting you to give me that sales data, right? But once I get you the lead, I need to know what happened to it so I can get you more of those, right? Does it come down to,
01:00:23
Speaker
reviewing the things I send you, right? Making sure that you are available if I have a question just so we can keep things moving. Because I think especially when you know we're talking earlier about Hey, I'm at the point where business is going pretty well. It may be the time for me to bring in an agency. How do you make that as successful as possible? That's just my tidbit. So when all our listeners here come to me for marketing help, I want to help them be successful as possible, right? So it's kind of like same thing to anyone else you would involve within. You got to let me help you. That is the easiest way you can do that is just make sure you're given your agency lead feedback.
01:00:57
Speaker
And ultimately just looking at the data you have, even to drive your own things, right? You want to see what sources are driving you the most amount of customers. You know, if that's something where a lot of them are coming from Facebook and put that effort into Facebook, if that's coming from Google ads, put that investment in Google ads, right? So the more successful you can be here is just listening to resources. And especially if you're engaging in ex with experts, you know, don't leave them hanging when they need things from you. Like I know things get busy. But that's my one piece of advice to make sure that anyone you guys engage with is going to help you be successful. ah that's That's a very good point, because even even just with like Lanarkorp, we deal so much with people who want something done, request it via email. Then when you ask for a specific start date, whatever they go to you, I'm like, we're just trying to get done what you want done, like answer your emails, dude.
01:01:44
Speaker
Because that to me, Brian, is why you and Travis are angels to work with, right? It's like, I sent an email. I know I'm going to get a response to it. Nothing is left hanging. So, and I'm always very surprised by that too. It's like, you know, you'll get some of those clients that go, Oh, I need to get this started tomorrow. Well, okay. If I ask you the small question, you're not going to get back to me till next week. You know, we're going to start it tomorrow. Well, Amber, it was awesome having you on.
01:02:11
Speaker
Uh, lots of, lots of helpful pieces of information for everybody to go take action on, which is exactly what we want. Agile, your whole team, everyone's awesome there. So pleasure for having you on. I so appreciate it. And thank you guys so much for having me. Like I said, I know the entire team has loved being able to connect with you guys, both personally and professionally. So I can't thank you enough. And for all the listeners, just to take some time to listen to what I have to say. And like you were saying earlier, Travis, hoping to be back, right? So be sure to catch some of those smaller episodes where we talk about more marketing content.
01:02:41
Speaker
I want to make sure we're breaking this down because marketing itself can feel so technical, but I promise it's simple when explained correctly, right? So when we're breaking down a lot of this into human language, I think that can get your mind turning on what else you can do for your business. Just as we walk through some of these smaller things, maybe in terms of tips or maybe in terms of more timely news. So I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys more later. We'll definitely have you back on and guys listening. If you have questions for Amber, by all means DM us, let us know.
01:03:11
Speaker
We will definitely ask her those questions and get even nitty gritty detail that you want. So you guys know, I love getting technical with stuff, right? That's what I do on the day to day. So I think when we're talking about other conversations, I'm like, Travis, how deep do you want me to go and talking about AI, right? We, how much time do we have? Okay. So yes, any of that send to the better contractor. And like I said, it'll make its way to me agile and co.com is where you can check more things about us out. And like I said, if there's anything you guys need in the marketing space,
01:03:41
Speaker
happy to help. I also know my business partner does a lot of social media with tips. So I believe he's at Chance B. Weber on Instagram, but that to me is something where I'm helping with the content behind the scenes. So to me, whether you're following Brent, Travis, or Chance on socials, even just following up with this podcast and listening to all the episodes, that to me is going to do wonders for your business, get you a lot of knowledge. Thank you, Amber. Travis, the professor, thank you as always. We'll see you next time.
01:04:07
Speaker
Guys, if you like the podcast, please subscribe, please share. Thank you. See you next time.