Transcript
Speaker: People are just doing and doing more, but kind of being less. And that's what actually brings a life that is not fully lived or fully experienced. And that's what I experienced myself and what I saw others experiencing. We are sacrificing our health, but further than that, our experience, our joy,
Speaker: This is the Home of Health Spam podcast, where we profile health and wellness role models, sharing their stories and the tools, practices, and routines they use to live a lively life.
Speaker: Azul Diaz, welcome to the Home of Health Spam podcast. Thank you. Great pleasure to be here. It is a conversation that I think is timely and necessary. And so I appreciate making the time on this rainy Parisian day for you.
Speaker: But before we get into the work you're doing, kind of how you got into it and what you've been seeing, how would you describe yourself? Yeah, I would disc describe myself as a i' ah and a lively life architect.
Speaker: which means that I see life as a design challenge, really. And that everything that we do and experience is actually something that we can consciously construct and bring to life.
Speaker: I really like that. You know, the the there was a period of time and it's probably still going on. Design thinking was permeating all aspects of business. So then bringing it into life architecture and design, what's more important than that? So I love that.
Speaker: We actually, we've had some recent conversations with prior guests, right? So, so much of our first hundred or so episodes were very much on optimization, optimization. Like what what are the molecules to take? What are the activities to do? What are the things to track?
Speaker: And we've seen from the annual wellness studies and reports, more and more people are feeling burned out, right? They're doing more. They're not feeling or seeing themselves as being any healthier, but they are more exhausted.
Speaker: And so what was it that brought you into this work? Yeah, so I know exactly what you're talking about because I spent almost a decade in high-performing environments. I worked for a huge beauty multinational here in France with world-known brands. We were making products, campaigns, really at top level. And I could see not only in myself, but in other professionals today, when you speak up about burnout, is that we are...
Speaker: kind of living in a decalibrated way. We've put all of our eggs in certain baskets. For professionals, who might be work. Work has become something that we've identified with. So when you say people are just doing and doing more, but kind of being less, and that's what actually brings a life that is not fully, fully lived or fully experienced. And that's what I experienced myself and what I saw others experiencing. is that we're sacrificing a surface level our health, but further than that, our experience, our joy to have certain metrics. And what you're saying now with wellbeing is that wellbeing has kind of become another performance that we've added ah to the list.
Speaker: ah We have to hit a certain ah amount of steps every day and do this and try the newest protocols, etc. But where is the being in that? And I believe and in the work I do is that in order for sustain any number of activities, It cannot just be habit stacking. Habit stacking will get you so far, but it has to become something that is deeper, that is identity based. And since today our identity is so work related, how do we create new identities that might be around ah health or around social connection or all of these other factors that we know as kind of soft pillars of longevity um that actually permit for a healthier lifespan and also happier one in itself?
Speaker: I want to double click on that being piece. So a prior guest, Barbara Waxman made this point that we're not human doings. We're human beings. And doing is clear what that means yeah of I go do this. I go to the gym. I go to work. I i produce something. i accomplish something. I've had activity What is being? Is it, is it, I can only be sitting like, cause if I'm walking, that's something, if I'm sitting or meditating, that's something, if I'm doing breath work, that's something. So what is, what is being? How, how is that?
Speaker: How work with being, uh, I feel like there's a two folded thing here. There is, you said, the estate of being and the, I am, and I can be anything that I put or attached to it. And I can also just be, but this is very high level, And the most people have a hard time just being for our human brain and also to our emotional self to understand being comes through identity. So a lot of the things that we do are identity based, and this is actually what maintains us doing and
Speaker: doing the things that we do, right? Because somehow we believe that we are what we do. And that's the kind of cycle. But really what we're constantly looking for is a self is a sense of identity.
Speaker: Okay. So that I, another, again, this is fantastic. Another prior guest, Matt Vincent, we talked a lot about this idea of identity, right? So I can say personally for me, for a good portion of the first half of my life, my identity was, i am a swimmer, right?
Speaker: We had practices twice a day. it was where I spent most of my time. All my friends were swimmers. We dated only other swimmers. Like that was my entire identity, right? And when I got injured and I wasn't competing at the same level, it it was this real identity craze. Who am I without this?
Speaker: And fortunately, I was in school, so I could just say, oh, I'm a student now, right? Let me get really serious about it. And so it was just jumping like a frog on lily pads to new identities. And it wasn't until the past few years, I've been able to really separate myself more from...
Speaker: what I do is who I am then i am. And here are things I do. right And so how have you seen people navigate that transition? Because because it is, i think, more natural to identify with the things we do and say, this is who I am.
Speaker: Then, know who I am is this this thing. And these are things I do outside of that. Of course. and it's ah And it's an extremely common experience, actually, ah particularly today with professionals. A lot of the people that I work with have spent 15, 20 years working maybe in one company or working one thing. And then one day realize, who am i what What do i what am I outside of maybe this corporate structure or who am I outside of the projects that I do.
Speaker: Particularly in my experience, I also have another layer, which is um geographical and cultural identities. And what happens with the identities is that is usually given by the externals, right? So when you're saying, i went to this school and I went to this, and so my environment also shapes my identity. um What I consume shapes my identity. um Today, when we become aware of maybe I'm a separate thing from what is happening around me, it enables us now to choose and to actually decide who we want to be. And that's the most important bit, I would say, is having that awareness of how is your identity being formulated not only by what you're doing, whether it's being a swimmer, but also living in a particular country, moving to another country and then actually choosing, okay, how do i form the identity that is best suited for what I want to achieve, for instance?
Speaker: On that, this is a question I ask a lot of people because I really don't know the answer. the This idea of identity as... something innate and core that we have to dig down and find versus something you can identify, build and create.
Speaker: And from the idea of life architecture and design, it sounds like you're more in the latter camp of, Hey, we can go create the identity you aspire to. Is that fair? Yeah, that is fair. i do believe, I believe there's both, but I think it's, it's easier to kind of um project oneself and decide to want to be ah something. And then that's where the activities and rituals and habits come in because you're aligning action with identity. And when you align action with identity, that's when we get have ritual that can spend, that we can do for 20 years, right? So that's when we talk about not just following a diet, but actually changing the way that we relate with food is because we've identified with, I am a person that eats this way. Or the same thing with physical activity. when Once once we identify ourselves as an athlete, if you already have that in you, then you're going to do it for the rest of your life. But people that have never thought of themselves as someone that does any sport or any physical activity, they're going to have a harder time actually maintaining that. So once we build that that that ah rapport with that identity, then is when we can have sustainable action over time.
Speaker: Yeah. And I believe there's well-documented research on this, right? For someone who says, oh i I don't smoke when someone offers them a cigarette first. Oh, I'm trying to quit. The success rates are dramatically different between those two. Absolutely.
Speaker: And, you know, I had had a friend, those identities can be limiting too. Yeah. I had a friend that saw himself as a runner. And so he he got injured. He hurt his ankle, all this. he said, you know, I put on 20 pounds because I hurt my ankle and I couldn't run anymore.
Speaker: And I thought back to it, like if I had identified as a swimmer, that other like I had knee surgery and I couldn't get in the water as well, but I was in the gym the next day. So you can kind of expand.
Speaker: Hey, I'm not a swimmer. I'm a person that moves my body. I'm a human that needs to move my body. And so that identity verse, I'm no longer a swimmer, right? Like I'm not painting myself in this.
Speaker: Do you see people do that that? Because at first you could say, I'm someone who's trying to start running. And someone who says, I'm a runner, they're way more successful. They're going to show up each day and do it and all that. But then one setback that limits that running limits them on that identity. Oh, I'm a runner. So I couldn't possibly look at cycling or swimming or these other things because I'm a runner.
Speaker: Right. but Because you're you're touching upon attachment, right? when Once we've kind of fixated on a certain way of seeing ourselves, it's hard to maybe step away from that and be something else. And it's true that it can be limiting. And this is, you know, we come down to to limiting beliefs, right? Of of what how I see myself and...
Speaker: in our work with clients, realizing that core thought of, I am more often than done is I am not a runner, right? Or I am not someone that does this. I am not someone that It's most often in the negative, as people see.
Speaker: Okay. It's most often the negative. um And it's when we've internalized this, then no hack, no optimization is really going to shift that because we have an identity that is opposite of that.
Speaker: Yeah. Okay. and And so I think I've heard about this, especially with children, right? oh Oh, I'm not good at drawing. I'm not good at singing. I'm not good at this. And this is an identity that they then carry forward because...
Speaker: Some teachers say, oh, that's not very good. Or they compared themselves to the kid next to them that they like their drawing better. And now they have an identity tied to the story that they've totally fabricated. Yeah. Everything is a story that we tell ourselves, right? And how strong that story is depends on a how much evidence we've collected. But if we're actually...
Speaker: believing in that will just continue to search out that evidence, right? Our brain is programmed to find those patterns. So we have a belief system. Confirmation bias. like Exactly. Of I am this, that I'm just going to constantly look for evidence that, that asserts that, right? Because we want to be right. Our brain always wants to be right. What you're talking about is, is really a conditioning in a way of, of, of who we are. And, um, once we become adults and have a certain,
Speaker: ah cultural, social, economic background, we at times don't realize what are our condition, like how are we conditioned? So the first step really in in work of of life design is to realize those conditionings and realize perhaps where are you experiencing a story that is no longer serving you and how can we create a better story? And I love that you brought it back to storytelling because We believe humans are so rational and that we just by knowing something and by knowing the data or the science behind it, that we're going to follow through. But we're much more emotional and much more intuitive than we care to believe. And stories is kind of the language of emotion.
Speaker: And so it's when we tap into this is that you can create a new identity because you've created actually just a new story for yourself. Anybody who thinks that just having the data is enough. I mean, I always go back to this quote, Tim Ferriss, and he probably took it from someone else, but he always says, if knowledge was all it took, everybody would be a billionaire with six pack apps, right? Like um it's an open book test. Just work super hard and eat well. You know you know what to do. It's just knowledge isn't enough.
Speaker: We always know rocket science, right? Being healthy, et cetera, is not... We make it up to be more complex perhaps, but it's there's there's something more intangible um in there. And and that's kind of one of the pillars of of the work that I do. And that's why i focus not just on the on the things that are easy to measure. right At the beginning, you spoke about doing versus being. And the reason why we're so focused on doing is because it is an easier metric.
Speaker: to to have. We have performance reviews and now we have apps that can show us how much you exercise, how much you ate, etc. versus how do you measure how successful you feel in your interpersonal connections or how um satisfied are you really with your life purpose or meaning. These are intangibles that are a little bit harder to to deal with. And so we have a harder time kind of assimilating them and working with them.
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Speaker: This can get pretty theoretical. I don't know if you're able to take us through an anonymized example from a client of what it looks like, like the typical type A that comes in what's going on in their life, what the issues are, and then the process of working through and what life architecture and design actually looks like and in process.
Speaker: Absolutely. and you're right. It is, it can be very theoretical because we're talking about subjective experiences. So in fact, the first thing that we do, i developed a tool, which is called the trajectory compass and if anybody can take it. I'll send in the link. Um, it's to turn this subjective experience into a data model.
Speaker: um We have 12 different life markers where you're going to measure your satisfaction and your stress. We know that stress today is the accelerator of most um biological aging that happens it and also steals away from your joy and your experience. Right. And satisfaction is the complete opposite, because when we're satisfied with something, usually your stress levels are down. But by measuring these two variables over 12 different categories, you're actually able to have ah model. Basically, this is just very useful visual tool to show clients to say, hey, this is where you are. These are your strengths, because usually they come up as well where there are levels ah where satisfaction is going to be very high and stress very low. So how do we continue to use your strengths, things that are already working well for you to kind of recalibrate the whole thing? And then the other areas, and usually when I work with high performance is Korean vocation usually comes in as a low, high stress, low satisfaction. um Usually meaning and contribution comes in also as a high stress, low satisfaction. um Usually even...
Speaker: the social aspect starts to be a bit of a shocker for people that they thought maybe they were more satisfied than they actually are. And so by starting to have a visual blueprint, let's say, of where they are, we can just work on the things that are actually going to move the needle forward.
Speaker: And it's just a very helpful tool for them to see, again, where are the areas that are working well for them and where can we do some work? And I...
Speaker: The whole point of the tool is it's personalized, but working across multiple clients, are you seeing, look, 80% of the time, like these are the 20% that are doing fine as it is. And these are the 20% that really require attention. Do you see consistency across those 12?
Speaker: Yes. I mean, we definitely see consistency with, with career. I mean, there's something definitely, I think in the, in the, um, the way that we're relating to work today that people are experiencing. And and we see this across studies, right? I think 75% of professionals experience some sort of chronic stress that can and may lead to burnout. So it's not a coincidence. I think it's it's definitely something that our generation how we've moved in as a society have created a work tension. And so that's definitely one of the main ones. Where it gets interesting, it's
Speaker: the Now the sub-levels, let's say, or like the other two are very personalized and that it can vary dramatically from one person to another. And I think that's where it gets very interesting working on one-to-one clients is really seeing...
Speaker: them in their ecosystem and how that is impacting them. And ultimately everything is linked, right? um If you're stressed with work, it's going to show up with how you sleep and how you recover. If you're stressed with your social relationship, it's going to show up also in how you feel in your community, et cetera.
Speaker: And so that's on the the negative valence side is Do you see a commonality on the positive valence side of like, look, most of the this is the one that's pretty good or these are the handful that are pretty good? Yeah, I've seen with people that obviously already take care of their health, ah usually physical vitality and nourishment are things that are very top of mind. I think, again, because it comes down to a more measurable variable, let's say. And so they're easier for them to find information aligned and kind of just apply them. But then they start to realize, oh, maybe the meaning and contribution that I associate, that's that's lacking. So usually it's more the external things and the health related ones that are pillars of strength, which is great, right? i mean, any pillar of strength is still strength, right? Like tap into the strength and then use it.
Speaker: It's still strength. Absolutely. How do we use them as a and a continuum of the others? Exactly. Okay. So that's great. So you come in you utilize this tool, you kind of see visually where you are. And then what does the process and the work look like from there for this life architecture and design going forward?
Speaker: Absolutely. So the, again, the the, the reason why we do the tools is to just gain awareness, gain awareness of, of, of the life dimensions where you're really going to have the most impact. And then we concentrate because it has to be client led, right? If I'm telling you, okay, based on the tool, this is where,
Speaker: you're feeling more stressed and less satisfied. But is that really where you want to go? Because if it's that's not your personal goal or objective, you're not ready to tackle that, then there's no point. or It has to be a real buy-in commit.
Speaker: Then we create a vision. of where you want to be, of how would like to be in the future. And this goes back to the being versus doing, right? It's not just what do you want to do in this section, it's who do you want to be ah as it pertains to a specific life marker.
Speaker: And this is really about creating a future story, right? Of something that will actually inspire you. I think, for instance, motivation has is been getting a bad rep lately. I think we're much more into a discipline-based story.
Speaker: approach and obviously discipline and consistency have their say at the table, but there has to be a motivation, right? There has to be a sort of vision, a dream, something that empowers you deeply from an emotional base. So that's the next step.
Speaker: That's a good point on on the motivation side. So I think the people who initially came against it were saying, Hey, if this is the only tool in your tool belt,
Speaker: you're not a hundred percent going to have motivation all the time. So you're going to fall short. And this is where discipline and others come in. And so then i think people took it to extreme of like motivation doesn't matter at all, but is the kindling as the spark to get started, right? The things you're motivated on, it's way easier to start building that discipline on those when you have a motivation behind it. So I do appreciate kind of making that nuance there.
Speaker: And maintaining that discipline, right? Because then if if if you're just doing things out of pure discipline, it becomes an automated chore ah in mind. And some days it's it's necessary, right? Some days if you do want to wake up at 6am and do something, you want it to be easier for you. But there has to be a why, right? There has to be a real purpose behind it if you want to maintain it for yourself.
Speaker: months, even years. And this is what we're talking about, right? Healthspan is built on the continuum of something over the course of an entire lifetime. So you really have to have a vision or a purpose or something emotional that will inspire that continuous action.
Speaker: And then how often do you revisit that? Because, you know, like like in a business, you could be setting things up because you have certain motivations, certain dreams, purposes, whatever.
Speaker: And maybe that's relevant for a quarter, maybe it's relevant for a year or five years. But how often does it need to be refreshed in this lifestyle design and architecture? So you're going through, you say, okay, we found our motivation. We know what we're working towards. We're going to design this identity and this this process and this work towards it.
Speaker: But so that it doesn't become this mindless habit. Because two years later, I may be doing the same thing, but my purpose has changed. And so it's actually detrimental to what i my joy, right?
Speaker: It can be a continuous thing, really. um And I think it it it should be a continuous thing because we as we go through life, obviously we change. um and And one thing that I would come to also that you mentioned businesses is values, right? ah Brands and companies spend so much...
Speaker: ah time, money, and energy coming up with their values or what do they actually stand for, et cetera. And this is actually another part of what do we do in life architecture is in order to get to the vision, you have to know what your values are and your values will become the kind of pillars ah that will guide you into that vision. And these are things that are variable that do change over time, usually not super quickly. the vision might change more.
Speaker: But the work that I do with clients is usually when they're at a pivotal moment in their life where they might, they know that something is missing or that they know that a new step is being built. And here's where we're going to really create something new. But the idea is for you to have tools that you'll be able to use down the line. i don't want to be um the only reliable way that you can form a vision and have values in order to move forward.
Speaker: Okay. So then, so we we've used a tool, we've identified the gaps, then we go in and on those, identify our motivation, our values around those. Exactly. And then is it, once we have those, we build tactical game plans on how we're going to execute. So what's the next step? Yeah. The next step is really, um, realizing,
Speaker: the micro right now we have like the macro scale and now it's like, okay, how do we bring it down to a next action that you can take today? So for instance, let's say you want to work on your social connection and your community building, right? Okay. So we have that vision. and We know that you have certain values that will be kind of non-negotiables to move in that direction. but now it's how do we take it down to from here to the end of the week, what can you do to actually implement this? And here's where the design really starts to come in because you will come up with what you want to do, right? So again, we're talking about it has to come from you. It has to come from your own identity, from your own context. And then if it's
Speaker: It can be, it has been things like, okay, I will plan ah dinner parties every month. And that's a specific goal that we want to maintain in order to move the needle forward in your social connections, right? Or you want to have lunch once a week with your kids, et cetera. So there are very specific actions that we can take. And that way we're taking very...
Speaker: theoretical, very kind of big words and putting them actually into a day-to-day um ritual. Right. Okay. And then is there...
Speaker: tracking or something that goes along with that? Cause you know, I've, I've worked with CEOs that were like, Oh, you know what I did? i took like these podcasts and these articles, et cetera. And I uploaded it to AI and it built me the perfect plan. It said like, when to go to bed, when to wake up, what I needed, like the psyllium husk in the protein I'm going to do at this time. And here's the workout for every day. Like and built my whole calendar.
Speaker: Great. Have you done anything out of it? Like, Oh no, no, I've never done any of it. Okay. So like that, that was a fun exercise, but it had no impact because it's, there's thinking and planning and then there's doing. So for these people, how how is that translation to the doing? Is it making it small enough? Like, Hey, it's once a month. It's not, I'm going to go to dinner every night. It's let's, let's make it doable. And let's, while we're sitting here, call the person, schedule the first one. Like, what does that look like?
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I think it has to come into something that is, you know We all know like the smart goal um approach. right i a I add another layer, which is the aim. um So it's aim smart. And the aim is what would be the top mind of your goal? What is the ideal? Basically, the A is like the ultimate. right it's like What would be the ultimate goal? Right.
Speaker: And then you shift it back to what would be an ideal what would be a middle. And we want to set for the middle, right? We want to have a goal and a specific action step that is not going to overwhelm you. So it's not a full calendar of activities. Like the example of your CEO, it's going to be something that will challenge just enough so that it actually moves the needle forward. And then it's an accountability base, right? it's It's checking back. And what is helpful of having someone external walk you through these things is to say week by week, hey, how are you doing? Did you, were you successful at completing whatever goal we set for for you, for instance? And if not, what happened? And from a very non-judgmental way is actually constantly being able to recalibrate and constantly being able to think, okay, if I wasn't able to achieve that this week, was it something specific that came up in that period of time? Is there something that maybe the goal is not completely relevant? Maybe it's not really something that I see myself doing. And then how can we continue to do to adjust and to change?
Speaker: And another thing that I like to work with is auto evaluation, right? And emotional evaluation. i think today we're outsourcing all of our performances to Excel sheets, to apps.
Speaker: We track everything externally and we've completely forgotten how to... have self-awareness. How do I actually feel doing all of these things? And i think for me, that's the baseline, right? Of progress and knowing if you're, if you're doing things, how are you actually feeling and having those check-ins is, is something that for clients is very helpful.
Speaker: That is helpful. And then on the revisiting of it. So you set this and What stage, i imagine it's different if it's something you're doing once a month versus once a week versus a daily action.
Speaker: When it becomes habitual, you say, okay, then is it time to reassess? Like, hey, what's the next thing to work on? I mean, what is what happens then? So say you're successful on it. How do you know you've been successful on it?
Speaker: What's that timeline? And then what is the next step? Obviously it depends completely from client to client and in in whatever goal it is. And I think that the, why I like to work and i and I tell clients that we're building rituals, right? Which is basically a habit that is powered by meaning and purpose. And that is identity aligned, right? So when you actually have a ritual set in your routine,
Speaker: is something that you're going to do naturally. We have many, many rituals ah that we may not be aware of, of just things that we do habitually in a way that serve a certain purpose for us.
Speaker: It could be making your bed. um I have to make my bed every single day in a very specific way. And that's just how I set up my day. And so working with rituals with people is finding those micro things that will align who you want to become with what's important for you. And then we stack from there.
Speaker: So it can be depending if you have a long term goal, then it's about maintaining that over the long term. But it can just be maybe seeing what's possible in the short term. For instance, with the social and connection example that I was giving you earlier, if you're trying it out,
Speaker: And maybe you think, oh, maybe the dinner party idea was great at the beginning, but I want to change that to something else. Maybe I want to have no phone meetings more often or off online. You know, it's it's really about, it's like a muscle, right? it's When you start becoming aware of how easy it is to design your routines and how to design your days, then you can become creative and innovative.
Speaker: And that's where the design comes back in of being able to always invent new things. Yeah, the ability to create an event that that is it's uniquely human. Azul, this has been incredibly interesting.
Speaker: yeah Thank you for coming on the show and sharing all this. For people who want to find the tool, learn more about you, where's the best place they can kind of follow up and find you? Yes, definitely. um My website, asul.ds.com, you'll have the tool right there and you can use it. It's free. It only takes five minutes and you'll receive a data visualization right away. um I offer then a guided version where we'll walk through it together, but already having it and putting your eyes on it is very helpful for most people to, as we were saying, take something intangible and making it very concrete. And I'm also on LinkedIn and Instagram.
Speaker: Well, I really appreciate it. Thanks again for your work. Thank you so much. a We'll put all that in the show notes. And for now, i enjoy a lively day. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Home of Healthspan podcast.
Speaker: And remember, you can always find the products, practices and routines mentioned by today's guests, as well as many other healthspan role models on a lively.com. Enjoy a lively day.
