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Ep. 21: Bruce Springsteen: 'Deliver Me from Nowhere' and Storytelling Through Songwriting
12 Plays4 months ago
In this episode of Adaptation: The Book to Movie Podcast, Nate and Chris discuss 'Deliver Me from Nowhere,' the story of Bruce Springsteen creating his iconic album 'Nebraska.'
Nate and Chris break down why they feel disappointed by this story despite being superfans of The Boss and what could have been done to make it a better experience.
Expect thoughtful conversations about Warren Zanes's book, Scott Cooper's film adaptation, Jeremy Allen White's performance, what makes for a good music biopic and what Nate and Chris's favorite 'Nebraska' tracks are.
UP NEXT: 'Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus' by Mary Shelley and its various film adaptations, including the latest from Guillermo del Toro.
Follow us on social media:
Nate's Letterboxd (@professor_n8)
Chris's Letterboxd (@cjanderson878)
Hosts: Nate Day, Chris Anderson
Producer: Nate Day
"Adaptation Theme"
- Written by: Chris Anderson, Jem Zornow
- Performed by: Chris Anderson, Jem Zornow, Nate Day
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Transcript
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00:00:39
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00:00:41
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You love the host.
00:00:42
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00:00:43
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You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom.
00:00:47
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Podcasts are a pretty close companion.
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Chris's Return and Settling In
00:01:23
Speaker
Welcome to Adaptation, the book-to-movie podcast.
00:01:26
Speaker
I'm Nate.
00:01:27
Speaker
And I'm Chris.
00:01:28
Speaker
And Chris, you're back in the United States.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:32
Speaker
Isn't it awesome here?
00:01:34
Speaker
We're in the same country again.
00:01:36
Speaker
Unbelievable.
00:01:38
Speaker
I was actually very excited to be back, and then the second I stepped out of JFK, I was like, oh, what have I done?
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's fresh hell pretty much every day.
00:01:49
Speaker
But we aren't in New York yet.
00:01:50
Speaker
We are up in West Haven, Connecticut.
00:01:54
Speaker
Same with some of Blair's family.
00:01:55
Speaker
It is delightful, apartment looking.
00:01:58
Speaker
And you are settled into your new place, yeah?
00:02:00
Speaker
Settled into my new place.
00:02:02
Speaker
I'm down the street from a movie theater, so I'm kind of just living the cinephile's dream.
00:02:06
Speaker
I got subscribed to one of those...
00:02:08
Speaker
You pay a few bucks a month and you can get basically free movies, 50 cent movies as much as you want.
00:02:14
Speaker
Wait, what?
00:02:16
Speaker
What is that?
00:02:18
Speaker
It's called Regal Unlimited.
00:02:19
Speaker
AMC has one I know as well.
00:02:21
Speaker
I forget what theirs is called.
00:02:23
Speaker
But I pay 25 bucks a month and for a 50 cent booking fee, I can go to any movie I want.
00:02:31
Speaker
That's incredible.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:33
Speaker
You can hold five seats at a time.
00:02:36
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So I've got a few booked out now for the next couple movies that I want to see.
Movie and Book Traditions
00:02:40
Speaker
And it's down, like I said, it's down, it's like 10 minutes away.
00:02:44
Speaker
So it's basically traffic proof almost.
00:02:47
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And yeah,
00:02:48
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I know exactly how long the ads run pretty much, so I just go late.
00:02:53
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And last night I was like 20 minutes late maybe to the showing because I kind of was working late and lost track of time and didn't miss a minute of the movie.
00:03:02
Speaker
Wow.
00:03:03
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Yeah, so I'm going all the time and I'm having a blast.
00:03:08
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Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
00:03:09
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That is literally built for Nate Day.
00:03:11
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It is, and I love, I mean, of course I love going to movies with Nate
00:03:15
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other people, but I'm a fan of a solo theater trip too.
00:03:18
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So I'm kind of on cloud nine over here.
00:03:22
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Yeah.
00:03:22
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Yeah.
00:03:22
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Yeah.
00:03:23
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Awesome.
00:03:23
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Yeah.
00:03:24
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But what have you been reading?
00:03:25
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Um, I've had, I've had a couple that I've been working through.
00:03:29
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I've got one.
00:03:30
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I can't wait to tell you about that's also, um, about the same length as that, that massive one I told you about.
00:03:39
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I felt like it was recent.
00:03:40
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Now that I think about it, it was probably two months ago.
00:03:42
Speaker
Pillars of the Earth.
00:03:43
Speaker
Do you remember that?
00:03:43
Speaker
The Ken Follett?
00:03:44
Speaker
Yes, I remember you telling me about it.
00:03:47
Speaker
And it was like a thousand pages.
00:03:48
Speaker
I actually took a picture and forgot to send it to you.
00:03:50
Speaker
There was a musical version of that playing in Madrid the day that we landed in Europe.
00:03:57
Speaker
They make musicals out of the weirdest shit, man.
00:03:59
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They will really make a musical out of anything.
00:04:01
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Shocker, we did not go see it.
00:04:03
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But this is about the same length, weighing in at like a thousand pages.
00:04:07
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I'm maybe halfway through that.
00:04:08
Speaker
That's taken me forever.
00:04:10
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But since we last recorded, I finished The Haunting of Hill House, which I believe they made a show out of.
00:04:17
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I think so.
00:04:18
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I think it's a show.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's a Netflix property for sure.
00:04:22
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Shirley Jackson.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah, I wasn't sure if we were going to
00:04:25
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Recorded at some point or not, but I had exactly 20 euros left in cash at the Dublin airport on Sunday.
00:04:33
Speaker
And so I just went and found one and that and a magazine were 20 euros.
00:04:39
Speaker
Oh, perfect.
00:04:40
Speaker
Cool.
00:04:41
Speaker
And then it was a 25 hour back because we flew Dublin to JFK via Istanbul.
00:04:47
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:04:49
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So I just read the whole thing between leaving Dublin and landing here.
00:04:53
Speaker
It was awesome.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah, we could definitely cover it someday.
00:04:55
Speaker
I didn't realize it was based on a book.
00:04:58
Speaker
I'm surprised you picked up a horror.
00:04:59
Speaker
Isn't it horror?
00:05:00
Speaker
I'm kind of surprised that you elected a horror title.
00:05:03
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Well, I was curious.
00:05:04
Speaker
I was feeling in the mood for it.
00:05:06
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You know, this time sort of near Halloween every year, I kind of try to read one.
00:05:12
Speaker
Cool.
00:05:13
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You're absolutely correct.
00:05:14
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It's not my typical wheelhouse, but I know this is a classic.
00:05:17
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Yeah.
00:05:18
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And she, as a horror writer, is a classic.
00:05:21
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So just wanted to give it a crack.
00:05:23
Speaker
A lot of good reviews from very famous authors.
Film Adaptations of Games and Toys
00:05:27
Speaker
I think there's one on the back from Stephen King that says this is like the classic haunted house tale.
00:05:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:36
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Yeah.
00:05:37
Speaker
That's the only book I've finished.
00:05:39
Speaker
What have you been watching?
00:05:40
Speaker
I've been watching, well, like your sort of October Halloween kick.
00:05:46
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I've been on, I'm trying this month at home, at least streaming at home, to fill in some of my horror blind spots.
00:05:53
Speaker
So I try and watch a spooky movie, you know, I guess every day or close to that.
00:05:58
Speaker
But that's all on my letterbox.
00:05:59
Speaker
The sort of fun new releases, besides, of course, the movie we're talking about today, which is Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere.
00:06:07
Speaker
I saw the Neutron movie, atrocious.
00:06:11
Speaker
I was going to say I didn't hear good things.
00:06:12
Speaker
No, there's literally an ad for Honda in the middle of the movie.
00:06:16
Speaker
I just, I wanted to throw it.
00:06:18
Speaker
The movie is about how AI can be good if you use it the right way.
00:06:22
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And I just wanted to throw up.
00:06:26
Speaker
I watched The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix, which I think you and Blair would like a lot.
00:06:31
Speaker
I almost turned it on two nights ago, but it's another one based on a book.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yes, it is.
00:06:36
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So I want to read the book first.
00:06:38
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Very Agatha Christie.
00:06:38
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It's like if Agatha Christie lived in 2025.
00:06:41
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Yeah.
00:06:42
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Yeah.
00:06:43
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Good movie though.
00:06:45
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Fine.
00:06:45
Speaker
I certainly not bad.
00:06:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:48
Speaker
But fine.
00:06:50
Speaker
And then house of dynamite is a new movie on Netflix from Catherine Bigelow, who's a director.
00:06:55
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I really like it was okay.
00:06:56
Speaker
It's about like nuclear war basically.
00:06:58
Speaker
And it,
00:06:59
Speaker
I said in my letterbox review that it's an obvious case of we really thought Kamala was going to win the election because it's like a little too real and a little.
00:07:10
Speaker
a little too anxiety inducing.
00:07:12
Speaker
I was kind of like, whoo, I don't know if I needed that in my life right now.
00:07:16
Speaker
But it's still a decent, decent movie.
00:07:19
Speaker
So that's what I've been watching.
00:07:21
Speaker
But there was a little piece of news that I shared on our Instagram story that intrigued you quite a bit the other day.
00:07:28
Speaker
And it sounds like
00:07:30
Speaker
You have some questions.
00:07:31
Speaker
The news was that Netflix has acquired the rights to film and television basically for the board game Settlers of Catan.
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:40
Speaker
So my question is what?
00:07:43
Speaker
That doesn't a streaming service that also has an in-house studio for seemingly tending to be mediocre movies acquired the rights to a board game for what?
00:07:54
Speaker
Why?
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's my question in a nutshell.
00:07:57
Speaker
Well, basically ever since the Barbie movie made one gabillion dollars, Hollywood has been trying to mine toys and games.
00:08:05
Speaker
They think that might be the next sort of, as superhero content sort of dies out, they think maybe the next is going to be games, toys, video games are really, really popular right now.
00:08:15
Speaker
So there's movies about monopoly and the Sims in development as well.
00:08:21
Speaker
Like Bob the builder, I think is getting a movie.
00:08:24
Speaker
Well, that was a TV show.
00:08:25
Speaker
Right.
00:08:26
Speaker
This is sort of how Hollywood works is that like one thing clicks and they run with it.
00:08:30
Speaker
People didn't like Barbie because it was about a toy.
00:08:32
Speaker
People liked Barbies actually for the exact opposite reason, because it was about humanity and women, you know?
00:08:38
Speaker
Uh huh.
00:08:39
Speaker
So, so people aren't going to like Catan because it's a toy.
00:08:41
Speaker
It's because they love sheep and bricks.
00:08:44
Speaker
Well, it's fairly close.
00:08:45
Speaker
You're going to scoff when I say this, but hear me out.
00:08:48
Speaker
It's somewhat similar to D&D, just in the fact that there's like, if I said, tell me a story set in the world of settlers of Catan, you could tell me anything you wanted because there is no like lore or world building boundaries.
00:09:02
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So that's a great point.
00:09:04
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I think that's what they're going for.
00:09:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I imagine also that it will include, probably the first thing we'll see is like a reality competition that's like life-size, you know, like real build-a-house Catan.
00:09:17
Speaker
Out of rocks and sheep.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:21
Speaker
Stacked one on top of the other.
00:09:24
Speaker
Rock, sheep.
00:09:25
Speaker
That gets shut down by the EPA real quick, I bet.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, you gotta imagine so.
Exploring 'Deliver Me From Nowhere'
00:09:29
Speaker
Anyway, today we are talking about Deliver Me From Nowhere, written by Warren Zane and adapted to film by Scott Cooper.
00:09:37
Speaker
Chris, why don't you teach us a little bit about Zane's book and what it is?
00:09:42
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk about Zane's book.
00:09:44
Speaker
Okay, this is a very curious one for us.
00:09:46
Speaker
This is, if I'm not mistaken, our first foray into nonfiction.
00:09:50
Speaker
I knew you were going to say that.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:53
Speaker
Is it because it's written in the notes that we share?
00:09:55
Speaker
Oh, no, I don't look at your notes before.
00:09:58
Speaker
I don't look at yours either.
00:09:59
Speaker
Okay, that's interesting.
00:10:00
Speaker
That came into my mind immediately, not even for the purpose of putting it in the context of our episodes, but because as I went to write out discussion points, I was like,
00:10:11
Speaker
This is totally different.
00:10:12
Speaker
We don't have these fictional characters to track.
00:10:14
Speaker
We have this beloved superstar that everybody knows.
00:10:17
Speaker
Totally different ballgame, right?
00:10:19
Speaker
Right, right.
00:10:20
Speaker
Just for the listener's reference, who is that beloved superstar?
00:10:23
Speaker
I don't know if we've said his name yet.
00:10:25
Speaker
The boss, Bruce Springsteen.
00:10:28
Speaker
If we have to say his name, you should stop listening right now.
00:10:30
Speaker
You're uninvited.
00:10:31
Speaker
No, no, that's not true.
00:10:34
Speaker
Politely go away.
00:10:35
Speaker
No.
00:10:38
Speaker
We're here to gate keep the most famous musician to ever live.
00:10:42
Speaker
I know, right?
00:10:45
Speaker
And this is like the third book about him, too.
00:10:48
Speaker
I mean, it's OK.
00:10:49
Speaker
Yes, it's it's wildly fantastic.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:51
Speaker
Bruce Springsteen, the boss.
00:10:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:53
Speaker
Real fun fact.
00:10:54
Speaker
This is actually I think I put it later and I'm going to mess up all my notes here.
00:10:58
Speaker
The first full on essay, first like three page proper essay I ever had to write for school in seventh grade.
00:11:05
Speaker
You could pick anything.
00:11:06
Speaker
And I picked Bruce Springsteen.
00:11:08
Speaker
No way.
00:11:09
Speaker
That's cool.
00:11:10
Speaker
It was actually, Ms.
00:11:11
Speaker
Franson, if you ever hear this, it was actually a super cool assignment.
00:11:15
Speaker
You just go look up facts about a person or a place and you make like 50 index cards and then you sort them by relevance.
00:11:23
Speaker
And then those become the subjects of your sentences.
00:11:25
Speaker
It's how I was taught to write a full essay.
00:11:28
Speaker
It was really cool.
00:11:29
Speaker
And it was about Bruce.
00:11:30
Speaker
Wow, that's cool.
00:11:31
Speaker
I wish I got to write about Bruce Springsteen.
00:11:33
Speaker
Well, at 12 or 13 years old, it was one of the CDs.
00:11:37
Speaker
I presume everyone had this.
00:11:38
Speaker
Your dad had like a little handful of CDs that just kind of rotated in the car.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:43
Speaker
And like half of them were U2 and half of them were Springsteen.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah, pretty much.
00:11:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:48
Speaker
Anyway, goodness gracious.
00:11:50
Speaker
The book, yeah, Deliver Me From Nowhere by Warren Zane, published in 2023.
00:11:54
Speaker
So a couple of years old, I guess.
00:11:56
Speaker
Had to give him time to make the movie.
00:11:58
Speaker
I guess.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:59
Speaker
Basically.
00:12:01
Speaker
About the album Nebraska.
00:12:03
Speaker
and I'm going to say kind of, and we'll explain more later.
00:12:08
Speaker
Nebraska was Springsteen's sixth studio album sandwiched between the massive double album, The River,
00:12:16
Speaker
And this is what came out.
00:12:18
Speaker
Nebraska is the album that came out before Born in the USA.
00:12:21
Speaker
And I mean, at the risk of offending people who are not Springsteen fans, I think there's not much we have to say about that.
00:12:28
Speaker
Massive, massive album.
00:12:30
Speaker
I think four singles from Born in the USA made it to top 10.
00:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, probably.
00:12:37
Speaker
Picture of Bruce's butt in some nice jeans on the cover.
00:12:41
Speaker
Everybody loved that.
00:12:43
Speaker
I can see by your face you're going to edit that comment out.
00:12:45
Speaker
No, I'm not.
00:12:46
Speaker
I'm making sure that I'm not muted, honestly.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:50
Speaker
So a crazy point in his career, right?
00:12:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
Again, very different read and different to discuss because it is nonfiction.
00:13:00
Speaker
But essentially, the start is Zane, long, long time ago, in a band with his brother and their friends called the Del Fuegos, who I had never heard of, met Springsteen when he was touring with a band called the Del Fuegos.
00:13:14
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:13:15
Speaker
So this is the author, first time he met Springsteen, which was a cool story, but I'm really trying to cut out a lot of details from the story.
00:13:22
Speaker
If you want the details, go read it.
00:13:24
Speaker
There was just so much information.
00:13:25
Speaker
We have to stay much shallower.
00:13:29
Speaker
I was shockingly not excited about this book.
00:13:33
Speaker
Wow.
00:13:35
Speaker
And I tried, I gave it a lot of thought.
00:13:38
Speaker
I think the issue is that I got a copy of the audiobook read by the author.
00:13:45
Speaker
I was worried about getting a hold of it.
00:13:47
Speaker
This was while we were transiting from London to Ireland, and I was worried about when a Kindle copy would come up from the library, so I just bought the audiobook on Audible, which was very frustrating because I got it from the library less than 24 hours later.
00:14:08
Speaker
That's how it goes.
00:14:09
Speaker
But I got the audiobook read by the author, which is usually fantastic.
00:14:14
Speaker
Big bonus.
00:14:15
Speaker
I think for me, books like Blink by Malcolm Gladwell, the audiobook read by the author, phenomenal.
00:14:21
Speaker
That's the only one off the top of my head.
00:14:23
Speaker
Usually a big, big bonus really brings out exactly how they wanted to deliver the information.
00:14:28
Speaker
Right.
00:14:29
Speaker
In this case, it really just made it feel like a super long form album review on a podcast.
00:14:37
Speaker
Yeah, I can totally see how that would be the case.
00:14:40
Speaker
I mean, it didn't feel like a book at all.
00:14:43
Speaker
It's a medium length book.
00:14:44
Speaker
It's about 320 pages, but I don't know if reading it myself would have felt different.
00:14:51
Speaker
a different narrator, I don't know what.
00:14:53
Speaker
But for me, I was constantly thinking some editor should have told him to cut about 40% of this.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:15:04
Speaker
But that was my sort of initial and kind of consistent feeling throughout.
00:15:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:09
Speaker
It's exactly 20 chapters long.
00:15:11
Speaker
I do not think along the lines of Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess, that was a deliberate number.
00:15:17
Speaker
It's just like a round number, which made it easy to keep track of exactly how many chapters in we were before he even talked about the album Nebraska.
00:15:27
Speaker
No way.
00:15:29
Speaker
I mean, obviously he would mention it, but you make it seven chapters before he actually starts talking about Nebraska.
00:15:38
Speaker
Okay, interesting.
00:15:39
Speaker
Which I get it.
00:15:40
Speaker
The context is very important, especially the overall vibe is he's building...
00:15:47
Speaker
an intimate world of where was this beloved figure, Springsteen, at this time?
00:15:55
Speaker
What had just happened?
00:15:56
Speaker
There was a great quote they were interviewing, all five of them.
00:15:59
Speaker
Springsteen, the audio engineer, the dude from The Bear that plays Springsteen.
00:16:04
Speaker
Jeremy Allen White.
00:16:05
Speaker
Yep.
00:16:06
Speaker
Some dude I've never seen before who plays the sound engineer.
00:16:11
Speaker
And the director, maybe, I don't know, five of them were on the news last night.
00:16:15
Speaker
And Springsteen said, and this is very much along the lines of this world Zane's built for us in the book, I knew what to do on stage.
00:16:24
Speaker
He was famous for these marathon live concerts, right?
00:16:27
Speaker
Three, three and a half hours just going for decades.
00:16:32
Speaker
He did not slow down as he got older.
00:16:34
Speaker
He kept doing this.
00:16:35
Speaker
And this was such a
00:16:37
Speaker
poignant quote from him, because I don't watch the news, so I was like, man, is this what the news has every day?
00:16:42
Speaker
I should watch it.
00:16:44
Speaker
It was Springsteen himself saying, for those three hours on stage, I know what I'm supposed to be doing.
00:16:49
Speaker
It's the other 21 hours of the day that I'm not so sure about.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:54
Speaker
And so in that sense, the length of the book very much did paint a picture of who he was as an individual, growing up, becoming a musician,
00:17:07
Speaker
what the river meant in terms of an album made with the band and its subsequent massive tour to bring us to this album.
00:17:15
Speaker
Right?
00:17:16
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:18
Speaker
So in a sense, I don't blame him, but come on, dude.
00:17:21
Speaker
First third of the book.
00:17:24
Speaker
That is, that's pretty rough.
00:17:26
Speaker
Is that really necessary?
00:17:27
Speaker
Um, and again, this is coming from a huge Springsteen fan.
00:17:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:32
Speaker
But I want a different book about the river.
00:17:34
Speaker
I want the book about the album Nebraska to be about the album Nebraska.
00:17:39
Speaker
Which, to his credit, he does indeed do, also arguably ad nauseum.
00:17:45
Speaker
So the thrust of the book is context about Springsteen,
00:17:50
Speaker
particularly, and I think probably the most important part, where he was emotionally and mentally.
00:17:55
Speaker
They really dig into how incredible it was at this time, coming off the album he had just made, to release essentially a solo album.
00:18:05
Speaker
Not essentially, it's a solo album, right?
00:18:07
Speaker
Right.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yep.
00:18:08
Speaker
Without the E Street guys.
00:18:10
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:18:11
Speaker
And even at that, I almost said this would be a spoiler.
00:18:16
Speaker
Again, this is the trouble with nonfiction, right?
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, what's a spoiler?
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
It's amazing because this album was recorded by Springsteen on a home recording device made into a four track.
00:18:33
Speaker
It's like the TIAC 9000 or something like that.
00:18:36
Speaker
Four track home recording device makes a cassette intended to be demos.
00:18:41
Speaker
Right.
00:18:42
Speaker
Right.
00:18:42
Speaker
This is just I've written these songs.
00:18:44
Speaker
I'm going to get them down and we're going to figure it out.
00:18:46
Speaker
Bring the band in.
00:18:47
Speaker
And then slowly realizing, wait, maybe it's better without the band.
00:18:52
Speaker
Wait, we're trying to record it professionally and we can't capture the same sound.
00:18:56
Speaker
Wait, what if we release the original cassette that you made in this room alone as an album?
00:19:04
Speaker
Amazing.
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:06
Speaker
Amazing.
00:19:06
Speaker
Right.
00:19:07
Speaker
I mean, it has happened since Macklemore.
00:19:11
Speaker
That was a very famous instance of him and Ryan Lewis recording all this, this whole album at home.
00:19:17
Speaker
You know, that was deliberately... I forgot about that.
00:19:21
Speaker
You know, that's a huge F you to the industry, right?
00:19:24
Speaker
Right.
00:19:25
Speaker
They didn't want to conform.
00:19:30
Speaker
Who's the Bon Iver guy?
00:19:31
Speaker
Justin Vernon, you know, has famously done similar.
00:19:35
Speaker
This accessibility that in modernity we've become familiar with.
00:19:39
Speaker
you know, the advent of DJs having Ableton on your MacBook.
00:19:43
Speaker
Right.
00:19:44
Speaker
Anybody can make an album in their basement.
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
00:19:47
Speaker
But at this time, the way that he did it, the same crazy sort of echo slap effect on everything, all instruments and all voices, absolutely unheard of.
00:19:59
Speaker
And then to be not just a good album, given those circumstances, not like as an excuse, oh, it's good, but come on, he made it at home, cut him some slack.
00:20:08
Speaker
No, it's a great album.
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:10
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:20:11
Speaker
It is raw.
00:20:12
Speaker
It is intense.
00:20:14
Speaker
I think the reason it was chosen as the subject of an entire book is it, to an extent, summarizes a massive, massive figure in music today.
00:20:24
Speaker
I mean, he's still making music, right?
00:20:25
Speaker
He's still... Yeah.
00:20:27
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:20:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:29
Speaker
That being said, there were only two songs on this album that I recognized.
00:20:35
Speaker
Really?
00:20:36
Speaker
Again, as...
00:20:38
Speaker
at least what I thought, a massive Springsteen fan.
00:20:40
Speaker
Atlantic City, probably.
00:20:43
Speaker
Of course, Atlantic City has been one of my favorite songs forever.
00:20:46
Speaker
And then Nebraska.
00:20:48
Speaker
I don't know, just that iconic harmonica.
00:20:52
Speaker
Yes, yes.
00:20:52
Speaker
Nebraska's number one, and then Atlantic City's two.
00:20:55
Speaker
And that crazy monotone.
00:21:00
Speaker
I actually sing that line in my head every time you talk about your family in Nebraska, and I've never told you that.
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah, shout out to my Nebraska family.
00:21:10
Speaker
Well, that's why I have the album on vinyl, because my mother gave her collection to me, and she got it from, I think her cousin gave it to her as a gift.
00:21:20
Speaker
And I remember being like, I don't know what this album is.
00:21:23
Speaker
And she was like, I don't really either.
00:21:24
Speaker
It was just called Nebraska, and we lived in Nebraska, so it was like our thing.
00:21:29
Speaker
And then, you know, the song is about a famous spree killer.
00:21:32
Speaker
So what kind of structure?
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good segue here.
00:21:37
Speaker
A ton of the middle of the book is extensive discussion of each track individually.
00:21:44
Speaker
And because of that, I think we are going to avoid it entirely.
00:21:48
Speaker
I think we would have a ball discussing them.
00:21:50
Speaker
Sure.
00:21:51
Speaker
That's sort of, yeah, that's outside of the scope of this podcast, right?
00:21:55
Speaker
But some of the themes that come up, exactly what you just said, a lot of them are frankly dark tales.
00:22:02
Speaker
I would argue Johnny 99 is the precursor to, what was that massive hit when we were a little bit younger?
00:22:11
Speaker
The, all the kids with the pump tub kicks.
00:22:16
Speaker
And it's like a super upbeat song, but then it's about like kids getting shot.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:22
Speaker
I would argue Johnny 99 is like the precursor to that.
00:22:24
Speaker
It's like fun and upbeat, but then you're like, oh, yeah.
00:22:27
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:22:28
Speaker
Right.
00:22:29
Speaker
And that was the brilliance.
00:22:30
Speaker
I mean, one artist after another Zane's interviews finds quotes from really other masters of the craft of songwriting in particular saying Nebraska is like the gold standard.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yep.
00:22:44
Speaker
It did not matter what effects were on it, how it was mixed, how it was mastered, the fact that it's essentially a guitar.
00:22:52
Speaker
I think he has an electric on a couple tracks, but otherwise an acoustic guitar, a lovely glockenspiel on a couple of tracks, kind of like what Hendrix did.
00:23:03
Speaker
But otherwise it's just, it was accidentally released in such a way that you are just face to face with some of the
00:23:13
Speaker
the craziest, most morally questionable characters you could imagine.
00:23:18
Speaker
He just assembled this cast that you cannot help feeling for.
00:23:24
Speaker
And it's masterful.
00:23:26
Speaker
It's unbelievable.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's all I want to talk about the tracks.
00:23:32
Speaker
If you want to hear the in-depth, potentially as in-depth as it could get, just read the book yourself.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:40
Speaker
I don't know how public Springsteen's mental health is in terms of like mainstream or pop culture.
00:23:46
Speaker
Very.
00:23:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:47
Speaker
Because it's, it's, it's always been familiar to me, but this book really dives into it a lot in terms of like what this sort of writing meant to his friends as, Oh wait, he's not okay.
00:24:00
Speaker
Right.
00:24:01
Speaker
You know?
00:24:02
Speaker
And, um, that really sparked in my head, a larger discussion of,
00:24:06
Speaker
you know, the whatever, I always mix it up.
00:24:09
Speaker
Art imitates life, life imitates art.
00:24:11
Speaker
I think that's the point is that you can mix it up.
00:24:14
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:24:15
Speaker
Exactly.
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:16
Speaker
I think often about this question that does not matter.
00:24:19
Speaker
If I look at this sock and say, this is blue to me, and you presumably agree this is blue.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker
But
00:24:29
Speaker
In our heads, we could be like the color that you physically see could be the color I call green, but we've both been taught we call it blue.
00:24:37
Speaker
So that's what it is.
00:24:38
Speaker
Right.
00:24:38
Speaker
Right.
00:24:39
Speaker
We've discussed this an unfortunate number of times.
00:24:41
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:24:42
Speaker
No, but this felt exactly the same way to me.
00:24:45
Speaker
It's like end of the day, we have no idea how everyone around us views the world.
00:24:53
Speaker
We think we know.
00:24:54
Speaker
We have some common ground that's been discussed, but it's impossible to discuss everything.
00:25:00
Speaker
And so this is an intimate view into someone else's intimate view of these characters, some real, some fictional.
00:25:12
Speaker
And I think it's that practice of getting into the song.
00:25:16
Speaker
Maybe it's upbeat.
00:25:17
Speaker
Some of them are just like a drone eighth note guitar string and a very monotone voice.
00:25:22
Speaker
It's like barely being a musician.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:25:25
Speaker
And you are enthralled.
00:25:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:28
Speaker
You are...
00:25:30
Speaker
you are stuck with it and you find yourself sympathizing with what would otherwise be relatively unsavory characters, right?
00:25:40
Speaker
And that's really what's brought up a lot in the book from quotes from other people, people that Zane's
00:25:47
Speaker
interviews, how was Bruce at this time?
00:25:50
Speaker
The answer, not well, comes out later.
00:25:54
Speaker
The fascinating finding that now six albums in, you know, they elected to hardly advertise for the album at all.
00:26:03
Speaker
Right.
00:26:04
Speaker
Not to do a supporting tour, because obviously it's a solo album.
00:26:08
Speaker
It would be crazy to go try to tour with the band playing these songs.
00:26:13
Speaker
And what that did to him, you know, them realizing how crucial participating with his audience was.
00:26:20
Speaker
Because this was a completely different time in music.
00:26:24
Speaker
Album sales mattered.
00:26:25
Speaker
Right.
00:26:25
Speaker
Right.
00:26:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:26
Speaker
Right.
00:26:27
Speaker
It wasn't about streaming.
00:26:28
Speaker
There was no stream.
00:26:29
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:29
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:31
Speaker
The most recent Blackpink album was essentially made so that they could go tour on something.
00:26:35
Speaker
Right.
00:26:36
Speaker
And have this blowout tour that everybody loved.
00:26:38
Speaker
Yep.
00:26:39
Speaker
And it was not the same then.
00:26:41
Speaker
And so to release this album without his band and then not do a supporting to it, just every turn, I can see why Zanes chose this album.
00:26:50
Speaker
Every turn was something unique and spectacular from this brilliant musician that you and I both love dearly.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:58
Speaker
That's the book.
00:27:00
Speaker
Interesting.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:02
Speaker
It's interesting to hear those criticisms because I have some pretty similar
Critique of the 'Nebraska' Film Adaptation
00:27:05
Speaker
ones.
00:27:05
Speaker
About the movie?
00:27:06
Speaker
About the movie.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, that I'm really surprised to hear.
00:27:09
Speaker
But I also want to know why you had a single sock on hand.
00:27:12
Speaker
Because I have been in Europe for the last 18 days.
00:27:14
Speaker
And this...
00:27:18
Speaker
is what the microphone has been sitting in in my suitcase.
00:27:22
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:27:23
Speaker
At least it's a clean sock.
00:27:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:25
Speaker
Two airports did stop me to ask what the heck it was because apparently it looks exactly like a pipe bomb on airport security devices.
00:27:34
Speaker
Oh my God, Chris.
00:27:36
Speaker
Yep.
00:27:36
Speaker
Well, we're here.
00:27:38
Speaker
So whatever.
00:27:39
Speaker
Here we are.
00:27:40
Speaker
Let's take a quick break.
00:27:41
Speaker
And when we come back, we will discuss the film adaptation.
00:27:49
Speaker
All right, welcome back to Adaptation, the Booked Movie Podcast.
00:27:52
Speaker
Today we are discussing Deliver Me From Nowhere, the story about the creation of Bruce Springsteen's 1982 album, Nebraska.
00:28:02
Speaker
Chris, thank you for the lovely rundown of the book.
00:28:05
Speaker
Let's talk about the movie.
00:28:06
Speaker
Awesome.
00:28:06
Speaker
Awesome.
00:28:07
Speaker
Stars Jeremy Allen White, first and foremost, as you mentioned, the star of the bear.
00:28:11
Speaker
I think it's really interesting, that casting, because there's so many similarities between those two characters, the sort of tortured artist who is the architect of their own destruction.
00:28:21
Speaker
I was sort of like, can this guy do anything else?
00:28:24
Speaker
Like,
00:28:25
Speaker
He's really putting himself in a box.
00:28:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:27
Speaker
Anyway, the cast also includes Jeremy Strong as John Landau, Bruce's manager.
00:28:34
Speaker
Odessa Young plays a woman named Faye in the movie, who my understanding is she's an amalgamation of several women that Bruce interacted with between 81 and 83.
00:28:42
Speaker
Okay, makes sense.
00:28:45
Speaker
Essentially, he just kind of self implodes their relationship.
00:28:48
Speaker
So just a representation of how he couldn't get his shit together.
00:28:53
Speaker
And then small roles for Paul Walter Hauser, Mark Maron, Stephen Graham and Gabby Hoffman.
00:28:58
Speaker
Just shouting out that those are all pretty, pretty big names.
00:29:01
Speaker
So it's interesting that a lot of people were drawn to this story, I think, because of Springsteen's iconography.
00:29:08
Speaker
Uh huh.
00:29:09
Speaker
The movie was written and directed by Scott Cooper.
00:29:11
Speaker
This is the first Scott Cooper movie I've ever seen.
00:29:14
Speaker
He's directed a handful.
00:29:15
Speaker
None of them are ones that I'm very familiar with, except his debut feature is called Crazy Heart, which is a movie about fictional country and Americana musicians.
00:29:24
Speaker
So interesting that he's kind of coming back around.
00:29:27
Speaker
Not that I would really throw Bruce into those categories, but he's
00:29:31
Speaker
sort of adjacent to those genres, I think.
00:29:32
Speaker
So interesting that he's come back around here.
00:29:34
Speaker
I don't think anyone would be angry at, I mean, not country, but Americana.
00:29:39
Speaker
Specifically Nebraska.
00:29:41
Speaker
I don't know what else to call it besides Americana.
00:29:44
Speaker
Americana rock, I guess.
00:29:45
Speaker
Well, they talk a lot in the book.
00:29:47
Speaker
I guess I don't know if they discuss it in the movie.
00:29:49
Speaker
They talk a lot about those influences on Bruce in the book.
00:29:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:29:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:54
Speaker
That's one thing, actually, that they kind of skipped in the movie.
00:29:58
Speaker
Like Chris, I am a huge Bruce Springsteen fan.
00:30:01
Speaker
And I knew that Bruce was very influenced by not just music of different genres, but like poetry and movies and a lot of different pieces of kind of Americana culture for this album.
00:30:13
Speaker
And it was largely kind of skipped over in this movie.
00:30:17
Speaker
But we'll get to that.
00:30:18
Speaker
Did they?
00:30:18
Speaker
Can I interrupt you once more?
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:20
Speaker
Did they talk much in the movie about the movie that really inspired him a lot?
00:30:25
Speaker
Badlands does get a couple shout outs.
00:30:27
Speaker
It's a movie I've always wanted to see because the story that it's based on, what's his name?
00:30:32
Speaker
Something Starkweather.
00:30:33
Speaker
Clark Starkweather?
00:30:34
Speaker
Something Starkweather.
00:30:35
Speaker
We learn about it in journalism school because it's one of the first times that a story gripped the nation and the media coverage had everybody freaking out.
00:30:43
Speaker
but it was so profitable that they just kept kind of churning out coverage of this spree killer who also is from Lincoln, Nebraska.
00:30:50
Speaker
That's where the title of the album comes from.
00:30:54
Speaker
And again, having family from Nebraska, it's a story that's kind of always gripped my family as well.
00:30:59
Speaker
So,
00:30:59
Speaker
Anyway, yes, that's pretty much the one piece of this culture, like life is hard in America culture that gets a spotlight in this movie, which is really interesting to me and frankly kind of sad to me.
00:31:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's the foundation of the album.
00:31:15
Speaker
So kind of just all kind of weird.
00:31:18
Speaker
And if you don't know the story of Badlands, it doesn't resonate very strongly because they really only play a couple seconds of that movie, highlight a couple seconds of that movie in this new movie.
00:31:30
Speaker
I had never heard of it.
00:31:32
Speaker
It's a pretty famous one.
00:31:33
Speaker
It's part of that new Hollywood movement that I'm always going on about.
00:31:37
Speaker
It's been on my list for years, so we'll see.
00:31:39
Speaker
Someday I'll let you know how it is.
00:31:41
Speaker
Interesting.
00:31:41
Speaker
They do practically a full...
00:31:45
Speaker
in-depth discussion of that movie in the book.
00:31:48
Speaker
I would have liked to have seen more of that.
00:31:53
Speaker
Springsteen and Landau were both very involved in the development of this movie, which sort of makes sense, not just because they're both alive, but because the book is so recent.
00:32:03
Speaker
And Springsteen regularly visited the set of the movie, gave his blessing to Jeremy Allen White, actually advocated for Jeremy Allen White to perform the role.
00:32:12
Speaker
And he would regularly sort of like give advice and tell these stories that helped shape how they shot the scenes while he was on set.
00:32:20
Speaker
So he's been incredibly supportive.
00:32:21
Speaker
He's also marketed this movie like crazy.
00:32:24
Speaker
It's funny that they didn't market Nebraska because he goes to every single premiere for this movie.
00:32:29
Speaker
You know, there's like a London premiere and a LA premiere and a New York premiere.
00:32:33
Speaker
And Bruce Springsteen is all over the place for this movie.
00:32:35
Speaker
So he's very proud of it.
00:32:38
Speaker
He wants to go interact with his audience.
00:32:40
Speaker
Yeah, yes.
00:32:41
Speaker
I think that's exactly right.
00:32:43
Speaker
Like I said, it's God is blessing and it's an accurate retelling.
00:32:46
Speaker
That's so cool.
00:32:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:48
Speaker
Whether or not anyone will admit to it, this movie was made now partially because music biopics are really, really hot in the industry.
00:32:56
Speaker
And that's because several years ago, probably close to 10 now, Bohemian Rhapsody, the movie about Freddie Mercury and Queen, made almost a billion dollars at the box office.
00:33:05
Speaker
It made a boatload of money.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, a lot.
00:33:08
Speaker
And it got a bunch of Oscar nominations too.
00:33:12
Speaker
Rami Malek won an Oscar.
00:33:13
Speaker
I think it got a Best Picture nomination.
00:33:15
Speaker
I guess I should have looked that up.
00:33:16
Speaker
Even though it's not a very good movie, it was like a huge, huge contender, huge discussion point for that year in film.
00:33:22
Speaker
Since then, many studios have been trying to kind of recapture that lightning in a bottle.
00:33:27
Speaker
But most of these music biopics don't end up doing all that well financially.
00:33:31
Speaker
The sort of exception...
00:33:33
Speaker
Recently, A Complete Unknown with Timothee Chalamet did okay at the box office too.
00:33:38
Speaker
I think it probably, their awards campaign was like bananas.
00:33:42
Speaker
So I imagine it was still a loss for the studio because they would have spent a lot of money on trying to get Timothee Chalamet an Oscar.
00:33:50
Speaker
Isn't that the one he was super pissed not to get an Oscar for?
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:54
Speaker
The other reason that they still get made and they get these big stars attached to them is because of the Oscar potential.
00:33:59
Speaker
It's almost like a given that you get an Oscar nomination for this.
00:34:03
Speaker
kind of movie, a complete unknown got three acting Oscar nominations, one for Timothy, who played Dylan, one for Monica Barbaro, who played Joan Baez, and one for Edward Norton, who played Pete Seeger.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah, so kind of just like, like I said, it's kind of a shoe in thing.
00:34:17
Speaker
So all of these actors kind of want to do it and are really interested in having that moment in the sun.
00:34:24
Speaker
And are these I don't know if you'll know this, are they typically based on a book?
00:34:28
Speaker
Or are they typically like written to be a biopic?
00:34:31
Speaker
You know, I don't know for sure that a complete unknown.
00:34:34
Speaker
The Bob Dylan one was based on a book as well.
00:34:37
Speaker
Um, but those, these, those two, this one and the Bob Dylan movie are sort of unique in that they're not full like birth to death biopics.
00:34:45
Speaker
They're just slice of life.
00:34:46
Speaker
This one really pivotal moment in their career.
00:34:48
Speaker
So I like, I don't know if, if like Elvis and the Aretha Franklin movie were books, I don't know.
00:34:54
Speaker
I'd have to look it up.
00:34:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:55
Speaker
This one, they slightly retitled it.
00:34:57
Speaker
The movie is technically called Springsteen deliver me from nowhere.
00:35:02
Speaker
I kind of have to laugh.
00:35:03
Speaker
The line, Deliver Me From Nowhere, is in two or maybe three songs on the Nebraska album.
00:35:07
Speaker
I think two.
00:35:08
Speaker
I only remember it being in one.
00:35:10
Speaker
Hold on, fact-checking.
00:35:10
Speaker
You keep talking.
00:35:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:12
Speaker
And...
00:35:13
Speaker
It's not performed in the movie whatsoever.
00:35:16
Speaker
They skipped both of the songs.
00:35:19
Speaker
So I can see sort of why they did that.
00:35:21
Speaker
And I'm wondering, that's another reason that I think a complete unknown maybe was a loss for the studio because it did not have Bob Dylan's name in the title.
00:35:29
Speaker
There's also not a song called Deliver Me From Nowhere, right?
00:35:32
Speaker
It's just kind of an idea from the album.
00:35:35
Speaker
So most of these biopics are called Elvis or Bohemian Rhapsody or Respect or Rocketman.
00:35:40
Speaker
And they're like immediately identifiable.
00:35:42
Speaker
I think they probably took a look at a complete unknowns box office and said, oh, crap, we need to make sure people know that this is about Bruce Springsteen.
00:35:50
Speaker
The second they look it up or the second they see an ad or something like that.
00:35:55
Speaker
Yep.
00:35:55
Speaker
Which is interesting.
00:35:57
Speaker
Again, we'll get to it.
00:35:58
Speaker
I don't think this movie has very much confidence in the album Nebraska, which is so antithetical.
00:36:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:05
Speaker
To everything it's trying to do.
00:36:07
Speaker
Anyway, reception for this movie has been good, not great.
00:36:09
Speaker
Reviews also have been good, not great.
00:36:11
Speaker
It just came out as of recording.
00:36:13
Speaker
It just came out last night.
00:36:14
Speaker
So we'll see how it does at the box office.
00:36:16
Speaker
I really expect it to bomb because it's a slog.
00:36:20
Speaker
This movie is so...
00:36:21
Speaker
slow and that makes sense because it's about one of the most stripped down albums in rock music history.
00:36:27
Speaker
One of these larger than life figures sort of removed himself from that and recorded an album in his bedroom while he was depressed.
00:36:36
Speaker
It's just not very fun to watch.
00:36:38
Speaker
no matter how good the sort of end result piece of art is.
00:36:42
Speaker
It was such a boring movie.
00:36:44
Speaker
Interesting.
00:36:45
Speaker
I know.
00:36:45
Speaker
And I'm, like I said, I'm a huge super fan of his too.
00:36:48
Speaker
I love this album, but I just could not wait for this movie to end.
00:36:52
Speaker
It was so slow.
00:36:53
Speaker
And like I said, no confidence in Nebraska as an album.
00:36:56
Speaker
The biggest set pieces in the movie, it opens, pretty much opens with him performing Born to Run, which is from a few albums previous as he's wrapping up his tour for the river.
00:37:06
Speaker
There's a huge set piece around Born in the USA, which was he wrote in the same album cycle.
00:37:12
Speaker
He wrote basically a double album again and shelved about half the tracks that could be made into these bigger pieces for his band.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yes, they had like two thirds of Born in the USA written, and then he stopped to do Nebraska.
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:27
Speaker
So Born in the USA is a huge musical set piece in this movie.
00:37:31
Speaker
Gets almost a full performance.
00:37:32
Speaker
It's not on Nebraska.
00:37:34
Speaker
And then I'm on Fire as well has a really long sort of sentimental scene.
00:37:39
Speaker
It's also not on Nebraska.
00:37:41
Speaker
And those are the three like biggest, what I would say are the biggest.
00:37:45
Speaker
There's also really sweet moments for My Father's House and Nebraska.
00:37:49
Speaker
But they are like interrupted by dialogue or dream sequences or kind of other things happening in the movie.
00:37:55
Speaker
They're not like a sit down, shut up and listen to the song moment of the movie.
00:38:00
Speaker
And those are really the only two songs from Nebraska that get spotlighted.
00:38:05
Speaker
Wow.
00:38:06
Speaker
In this movie.
00:38:07
Speaker
So it's just.
00:38:08
Speaker
crazy to me.
00:38:09
Speaker
Like I said, it's so antithetical because so much of the movie to maybe the last third is Bruce advocating for that album to be released in its form.
00:38:17
Speaker
And like, trust me, it'll perform the way we want it to perform.
00:38:19
Speaker
And, and this is the music I want to make.
00:38:22
Speaker
So it's, it's very interesting to me that the movie falls for the same, like commercial worries, I guess that, that the executives fell for.
00:38:31
Speaker
I'm like, then why don't you make a movie about a different album?
00:38:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:35
Speaker
Anyway, I'm ragging on the movie a lot.
00:38:37
Speaker
Jeremy Allen White is fantastic and sounds a lot like Bruce, but there are one or two moments where they use Bruce's voice and you can tell.
00:38:44
Speaker
Maybe it's just because I'm a Springsteen superfan and I've listened to Nebraska a hundred times, but there are one or two scenes where he like, quote unquote, listens back to his own recording.
00:38:53
Speaker
And I'm like, no, that's Bruce Springsteen.
00:38:55
Speaker
That's not Jeremy Allen White.
00:38:57
Speaker
The rest of them are Jeremy singing.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:00
Speaker
And he does a really good job of sounding like Bruce Springsteen, which can't be very safe for the human vocal cords.
00:39:07
Speaker
No, just like Jane smokes two packs and then rips out the mic.
00:39:11
Speaker
It was pretty funny listening to the scenes that they clearly shot after he sang, his voice was very hoarse and raspy.
00:39:18
Speaker
I was like, that's a really good detail, really strong.
00:39:20
Speaker
Like I said, really strong performance.
00:39:22
Speaker
And as long as we're talking about the recordings and the sounds,
00:39:26
Speaker
the songs that Jeremy performed, the sort of stylings, they really did nail the Nebraska stylings as well.
00:39:33
Speaker
Like I said, it's not very confident in the album, but it sort of had a real reverence for it that I was still able to sort of appreciate as a Bruce Springsteen fan.
00:39:42
Speaker
But otherwise, I don't have a lot to add about the movie.
00:39:45
Speaker
It's a little bit of a nothing burger.
00:39:47
Speaker
I couldn't, when I finished, I was like, I just don't have a lot to say about it.
00:39:50
Speaker
Because not a lot, basically, nothing happens in the movie.
00:39:53
Speaker
Like I said, he records an album in his bedroom, and then he argues with people for maybe 45 minutes and cry.
00:40:02
Speaker
I feel like the thesis statement of the movie is, did you know Bruce Springsteen has depression?
00:40:05
Speaker
And it's like,
00:40:06
Speaker
well, have you listened to a Bruce Springsteen song ever in your life?
00:40:10
Speaker
So yeah, kind of interesting that it has the same pitfalls that you were finding in the book or very similar ones.
00:40:17
Speaker
Do you think, because I didn't write this as a discussion question, but I want to ask you anyway, do you think it would have been more effective as a straight documentary as opposed to a biopic?
00:40:30
Speaker
I guess.
00:40:30
Speaker
I mean, the ultimate thing here, I know I just ragged on, this is technically a Disney movie.
00:40:35
Speaker
It's a 20th century movie.
00:40:37
Speaker
I know I just ragged on them for, they did the Bob Dylan movie too.
00:40:40
Speaker
What?
00:40:41
Speaker
So like I said, money and awards.
00:40:45
Speaker
So Bruce Springsteen is now technically a Disney princess?
00:40:48
Speaker
I guess.
00:40:49
Speaker
Hell yeah.
00:40:50
Speaker
Would it have been more effective?
00:40:52
Speaker
The bottom line is it's not a very exciting story.
00:40:54
Speaker
And that's my problem with like a lot of these music biopics is it's just like a good artist works really hard.
00:41:00
Speaker
And I'm kind of like, yeah.
00:41:02
Speaker
Cool.
00:41:02
Speaker
You know, we knew that.
00:41:04
Speaker
Right.
00:41:04
Speaker
I'm just kind of waiting for the next song because that's kind of what I'm there for.
00:41:08
Speaker
Right.
00:41:08
Speaker
Like I, I, well, I ask that because both of us have nearly the same complaint about this book and this movie and of the list that you were just giving me.
00:41:19
Speaker
I mean, the Elton John one I loved, but for the most part, I agree.
00:41:23
Speaker
The biopics have been underwhelming, but then have you watched the Billy Joel one yet?
00:41:29
Speaker
The documentary on HBO?
00:41:31
Speaker
I haven't.
00:41:32
Speaker
It's on my list.
00:41:33
Speaker
Five-hour documentary.
00:41:35
Speaker
Two, two-and-a-half-hour.
00:41:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:38
Speaker
I think they call them episodes.
00:41:39
Speaker
No, two-and-a-half-hours.
00:41:40
Speaker
That's a movie.
00:41:41
Speaker
Call it what it is.
00:41:41
Speaker
Movies, yeah.
00:41:42
Speaker
And I think it's the level setting, setting of expectations.
00:41:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:48
Speaker
You're not mad at a documentary that's two-and-a-half-hours long, dragging a little.
00:41:53
Speaker
But a movie?
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah, come on, pick up the pace.
00:41:56
Speaker
Right.
00:41:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:57
Speaker
From that perspective, it would be more effective as a documentary.
00:42:01
Speaker
The crucial error was not really explaining why Bruce in his depression connected to all of this Americana culture.
00:42:10
Speaker
If you listen to the songs, they are all about why it is hard and bad to live in America and not be rich.
00:42:16
Speaker
100%.
00:42:16
Speaker
Which is an interesting thing coming from a rich rock star who, of course, grew up
00:42:22
Speaker
Not rich.
00:42:23
Speaker
Well, do they talk about that much in the movie?
00:42:25
Speaker
They do flashback to his, it's more about how parents and specifically his dad were not great.
00:42:31
Speaker
It's not so much about living in poverty or they lean on the fact that he's always been painted as America's blue collar rockstar, Heartland hero sort of thing.
00:42:41
Speaker
But by this time, I mean, you just said it five albums in and coming off the river tour.
00:42:47
Speaker
And he talked a lot in his interviews with Zanes in the book about how uncomfortable he was because he didn't leave town.
00:42:54
Speaker
He went back to New Jersey.
00:42:56
Speaker
Right.
00:42:56
Speaker
And now he's not in the same shoes as all these folks.
00:43:00
Speaker
Right.
00:43:01
Speaker
But he still performs at the local bar.
00:43:03
Speaker
He dates this girl in the movie, at least, is depicted as a...
00:43:08
Speaker
sister of like a high school friend or classmate, something like that.
00:43:12
Speaker
So he's still sort of very much existing in this, the same physical space, but not the same
Springsteen's Music and Biopic Ideas
00:43:18
Speaker
mental or economical or fiscal space.
00:43:23
Speaker
And they just, they kind of glance over it.
00:43:25
Speaker
Like it just, you don't,
00:43:28
Speaker
I don't think the movie does much to tell you why the album is so iconic.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yes, that's a shame.
00:43:35
Speaker
I guess a documentary long-winded answer to your question here.
00:43:39
Speaker
I guess it would be better because you'd probably hear more directly from Springsteen and Landau instead of the chain of adaptation is...
00:43:47
Speaker
This story happened to Bruce Springsteen and then Warren Zane wrote about it.
00:43:50
Speaker
And now Scott Cooper wrote about it.
00:43:51
Speaker
And now it's Jeremy Allen White sort of being the face of it.
00:43:54
Speaker
Right.
00:43:54
Speaker
We're like six degrees.
00:43:55
Speaker
I don't know how many that was five or six degrees away from from Bruce, even though he was involved.
00:44:02
Speaker
Even though he was in the room.
00:44:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:04
Speaker
So I guess to answer your question, it would have been better.
00:44:08
Speaker
No, that's a good answer.
00:44:09
Speaker
That's it.
00:44:09
Speaker
I think you brought up important context to answer the question rather than just saying yes or no.
00:44:16
Speaker
I was curious, one of the parts of the movie that I really liked was the relationship between Bruce and Landau.
00:44:22
Speaker
They seem to have a real brotherhood and Landau was very protective over Bruce.
00:44:27
Speaker
I imagine that's probably what he had a reputation for with all of his clients.
00:44:31
Speaker
This is Bruce's manager that I'm referring to.
00:44:34
Speaker
And I wanted to know if the book touched on that at all or if that's something that they kind of mined for the movie because it was really special, I thought.
00:44:41
Speaker
No, they I'm glad that that comes through in the movie.
00:44:45
Speaker
That was very clear in the book.
00:44:46
Speaker
He even specifies almost a little bit of foreshadowing when they first start hearing some of the tunes.
00:44:53
Speaker
And Landau is the one that's like, oh, boy, I mean, great, great songs.
00:44:57
Speaker
But like, how are you doing, bud?
00:45:00
Speaker
Right.
00:45:00
Speaker
And could kind of foresee the collapse that was coming before they even got to how do we release this?
00:45:06
Speaker
How do we mix and master any of those questions?
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:10
Speaker
I'd say that was similar in the movie, too, that he was probably the first one to spot the warning signs.
00:45:14
Speaker
But I also I just loved that he was always like, you never have a easy time coming off the road.
00:45:19
Speaker
Like, take it easy.
00:45:20
Speaker
Are you sure you don't want to be in L.A.?
00:45:23
Speaker
He just was very caring towards Bruce.
00:45:24
Speaker
And I thought for for somebody whose job it was to, like, make money off of Bruce's success.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:29
Speaker
I thought that was a very, very cool thing for him to do and a cool thing for the movie to spotlight.
00:45:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:45:35
Speaker
I mean, it was so relevant and abundantly discussed in the book along the lines of actually the other biopics we've discussed.
00:45:43
Speaker
It made me wonder how would some of our other beloved figures, Elton John, Hendrix, you know, how would some of these people that did have to reach...
00:45:58
Speaker
I mean, I'm not here to quantify people's pain, but arguably lower lows.
00:46:05
Speaker
how would they have done if they had a manager like this?
00:46:08
Speaker
So I think it's awesome that they portrayed him so much.
00:46:11
Speaker
Yeah, especially some of the people like Hendrix that are dead because of those lives.
00:46:15
Speaker
Right, exactly.
00:46:16
Speaker
Or in part because of those lives.
00:46:18
Speaker
Yep.
00:46:18
Speaker
That's another thing that's not very effective about these biopics.
00:46:21
Speaker
There's one scene where Bruce sort of implies that he might hurt himself to John over the phone.
00:46:27
Speaker
And it's supposed to be a really tense moment, but we know...
00:46:31
Speaker
that he doesn't, you know what I mean?
00:46:33
Speaker
Or even if he did, that he is okay because he's still alive.
00:46:36
Speaker
And it's one of the reasons that biopics don't work super well for me is because I'm like, well, yeah, we know how it turned out.
00:46:42
Speaker
We know how it is.
00:46:43
Speaker
At the end of the movie, they splash up how big, how well the Nebraska album sold and everything.
00:46:48
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, that's why I'm here.
00:46:52
Speaker
I didn't need the last two hours.
00:46:54
Speaker
Yeah, interesting.
00:46:55
Speaker
Anyway, what other discussion questions you got?
00:46:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:46:59
Speaker
I mean, I was so curious, actually infinitely more curious after watching because usually, you know, I expose myself to no information about the movie.
00:47:09
Speaker
Sure.
00:47:10
Speaker
And it is impossible coming back to the U.S. this last week to wake up in the morning and go through an entire day without hearing about this movie right now.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:20
Speaker
Right.
00:47:21
Speaker
So the book for me and actually this one, I feel pretty confident.
00:47:24
Speaker
I'm not going to give my normal dense reader disclaimer, I think for everyone reading it.
00:47:28
Speaker
It's very much a narration of the considerable research done by Zane and the interviews, honestly a lot of interviews with Springsteen himself and everybody involved.
00:47:40
Speaker
I cannot fathom how they morph that 20 chapters of narration from the person who researched it into a character
00:47:51
Speaker
playing Springsteen.
00:47:53
Speaker
I said here, in my mind, this should have been 10 one hour episodes, a massive docu series.
00:48:00
Speaker
Sure.
00:48:00
Speaker
Are you is it are you hearing first person stream of consciousness?
00:48:04
Speaker
Is it just conversations he's having with other like, how do they how the heck do they do this?
00:48:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's a pretty standard narrative.
00:48:12
Speaker
There's no narration.
00:48:14
Speaker
There's occasional, like I said, occasional flashbacks to his childhood.
00:48:17
Speaker
That word sounds a little too kitschy in the context of this movie.
00:48:20
Speaker
I think there's a little more nuance.
00:48:22
Speaker
He's sort of connecting the dots of his trauma to his current depression.
00:48:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:27
Speaker
So there's a little bit of that, but otherwise it's pretty straightforward.
00:48:31
Speaker
It's a chronological retelling.
00:48:33
Speaker
It starts at the final performance of his tour for The River.
00:48:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:37
Speaker
Straight through making Nebraska and then advocating for its release.
00:48:42
Speaker
And you follow Bruce, there's no narration.
00:48:44
Speaker
So it's, it's mostly him saying, it's, it's mostly him going, this is how I want it to sound.
00:48:50
Speaker
And his buddy that like helped him record.
00:48:52
Speaker
was like, are you sure this doesn't sound very good?
00:48:54
Speaker
And he goes, yeah, this is how I want it to sound.
00:48:56
Speaker
And then he goes to the actual producers and mixers and engineers and goes, this is how I want it to sound.
00:49:02
Speaker
And they go, are you sure?
00:49:03
Speaker
And he goes, yeah, this is how I want it to sound.
00:49:06
Speaker
And that's kind of the movie.
00:49:08
Speaker
And then John Landau has to have one or two sort of arguments with the record execs where he says, yeah, this is how he wants it to sound.
00:49:16
Speaker
And that's sort of it.
00:49:17
Speaker
That's sort of the movie.
00:49:19
Speaker
Incredible.
00:49:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:21
Speaker
So when you ask how did they condense it, it's because they took one shot and they just stuck with it.
00:49:28
Speaker
They just sliced everything.
00:49:29
Speaker
That's how.
00:49:30
Speaker
Yep.
00:49:30
Speaker
One track mind.
00:49:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:32
Speaker
Interesting.
00:49:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:33
Speaker
I mean, I guess I don't see how else you could do it.
00:49:36
Speaker
We don't often have an opportunity to ask questions like this next one I'm going to pose.
00:49:40
Speaker
So that's why I wanted to talk about it.
00:49:43
Speaker
What is your favorite track on the album?
00:49:45
Speaker
And do you have a reason why?
00:49:47
Speaker
Or is it just you just like it?
00:49:49
Speaker
Who's it?
00:49:50
Speaker
Rocks.
00:49:51
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:49:51
Speaker
You texted me about this, and I think it's an absolutely incredible question.
00:49:56
Speaker
And had you asked me this two weeks ago, I would have, without hesitation, said Atlantic City.
00:50:02
Speaker
Atlantic City, yeah.
00:50:03
Speaker
I love that song.
00:50:05
Speaker
Always have.
00:50:06
Speaker
I've told you about this before.
00:50:09
Speaker
First of all, Blair was the first person from Connecticut I'd ever met.
00:50:13
Speaker
New England in general, coming from the Midwest for me, was like, New York specifically was
00:50:20
Speaker
Home Alone, right?
00:50:21
Speaker
Yep.
00:50:22
Speaker
That's it.
00:50:23
Speaker
And New Jersey especially, I don't know how many people in the state of New Jersey, much to their chagrin, I'm sure, I have said specifically, my entire mental impression of this state is what Bruce Springsteen has told me.
00:50:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:40
Speaker
And they're like, oh, do you think it's a shithole?
00:50:42
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, this is what I think.
00:50:44
Speaker
Half of them begin on the end of three.
00:50:48
Speaker
Virtually none of them begin on the downbeat on one.
00:50:52
Speaker
And what that showed me as a listener, especially pulling up, I recommend this.
00:50:58
Speaker
Listen to it.
00:50:58
Speaker
Close your eyes.
00:50:59
Speaker
Listen to it once.
00:51:00
Speaker
Yep.
00:51:01
Speaker
Then open your eyes, have a list of the lyrics in front of you and listen again.
00:51:06
Speaker
He didn't give two shits.
00:51:09
Speaker
about making a correct, a catchy, a cool sounding song.
00:51:16
Speaker
He had the story, which is what he's known and loved for, and this album especially.
00:51:24
Speaker
And he just found the vessel to get that out there.
00:51:28
Speaker
It should not make sense.
00:51:30
Speaker
It is consistently the strangest timing you can imagine.
00:51:34
Speaker
Weird lines flowing over.
00:51:38
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:51:38
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:51:39
Speaker
And it just makes it so clear he had this fantastic character.
00:51:43
Speaker
That's what everyone will talk about.
00:51:44
Speaker
Any musicians, you ask to talk about the album Nebraska.
00:51:47
Speaker
It's the characters that he made.
00:51:49
Speaker
And these are simple ideas, right?
00:51:52
Speaker
And some of these details, he and I are taking turns dancing with Maria.
00:51:56
Speaker
You know, Maria is nowhere else in this song.
00:51:58
Speaker
But it's these subtle changes that they're playing this specific song, Johnstown Flood.
00:52:05
Speaker
That he's a sergeant at barracks number eight.
00:52:07
Speaker
It's this perfect combination of so-so vague that we can all relate, but then such intimate details that it makes you think, wait, is this real?
00:52:17
Speaker
Because again, some of the tracks are and some are not.
00:52:22
Speaker
I've fallen in love with this song.
00:52:26
Speaker
So that is my long, long answer.
00:52:28
Speaker
Highway Patrol Man.
00:52:30
Speaker
Incredible.
00:52:31
Speaker
It does bring you to the verge of tears every time, but in like...
00:52:35
Speaker
a delightful way.
00:52:37
Speaker
Right.
00:52:37
Speaker
The way art is supposed to.
00:52:39
Speaker
Exactly.
00:52:40
Speaker
Exactly.
00:52:40
Speaker
Exactly.
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:42
Speaker
How about you?
00:52:42
Speaker
Favorite track from Nebraska?
00:52:44
Speaker
This is tough.
00:52:46
Speaker
This is the kind of art that I like that's like saying something, doing something.
00:52:49
Speaker
You know, I don't really care that like Taylor Swift found her man finally or
00:52:54
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:52:56
Speaker
That's just not important to me.
00:52:59
Speaker
Agreed.
00:53:00
Speaker
So I've loved this album for a long time.
00:53:02
Speaker
And like you, up until two weeks ago, I probably would have said Nebraska because of the sort of family connections that I mentioned, or Atlantic City.
00:53:10
Speaker
I mean, it's on its greatest hits.
00:53:12
Speaker
It's incredible.
00:53:13
Speaker
You know, pretty objectively the best song on the record.
00:53:16
Speaker
But in listening to it and reading the lyrics, like deeply listening to it over the last week or two to sort of prep for this,
00:53:24
Speaker
Just about every time I listen to Used Car, I end up with tears streaming down my face.
00:53:30
Speaker
For those that don't know the track, it's basically, I think it's one of the more autobiographical songs.
00:53:35
Speaker
I think it's based on Bruce's actual feelings.
00:53:37
Speaker
When his family went out and bought a used car and everybody in the neighborhood was like, oh my God, there's a new car in the neighborhood.
00:53:44
Speaker
And he was like, that is so dumb.
00:53:46
Speaker
Like four people have owned this car before we have.
00:53:48
Speaker
What are we gawking over this for?
00:53:51
Speaker
We shouldn't be like building that kind of culture.
00:53:53
Speaker
And-
00:53:54
Speaker
Yeah, but the line in the song, a new used car.
00:53:56
Speaker
Right, exactly.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah, everybody is excited that it's a new used car.
00:54:00
Speaker
And it sort of culminates in him wishing that he could drive off and never see another used car as long as he lives.
00:54:09
Speaker
And he arguably probably did, just based on all the gold records that are on his wall.
00:54:18
Speaker
But it's just one growing up sort of in suburbia that I...
00:54:22
Speaker
has really resonated with me.
00:54:23
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, we do sort of put ourselves in these holes in some ways.
00:54:27
Speaker
You know, like, even the idea of the American dream has is sort of like propaganda to keep lower and middle class people in the lower and middle classes.
00:54:36
Speaker
And that's exactly what that song is to me.
00:54:38
Speaker
And I just like I said, it makes me cry.
00:54:40
Speaker
It makes me think of my own childhood.
00:54:42
Speaker
But I love it.
00:54:43
Speaker
That song's great.
00:54:45
Speaker
I absolutely love that answer from you.
00:54:47
Speaker
If I had not said Highway Patrolman, that was my answer for very similar reasons.
00:54:52
Speaker
I was surprised that you chose Patrolman.
00:54:53
Speaker
I thought we were going to land on the same one.
00:54:55
Speaker
Well, used car especially, think about songs about cars.
00:54:59
Speaker
Queen.
00:55:01
Speaker
I'm in love with my car.
00:55:03
Speaker
Dumb, shallow, even the bandmates didn't like it, right?
00:55:06
Speaker
Right.
00:55:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:07
Speaker
This song, I immediately pictured...
00:55:11
Speaker
the five used cars that were always in my parents' driveway, two running at any given time, and thinking to myself, I'm never going to be like this.
00:55:21
Speaker
The second I get out of college, I'm going to buy a new car and take care of it.
00:55:26
Speaker
Like what?
00:55:27
Speaker
That's exactly as ridiculous, right?
00:55:29
Speaker
I look back and I just want to say, Chris, you dumbass.
00:55:33
Speaker
Right.
00:55:34
Speaker
Who cares?
00:55:34
Speaker
Who cares?
00:55:35
Speaker
And especially now on exactly what you said, like the level of being in that neighborhood with your family, like now as an adult in my thirties, I can very much realize, oh, we had those cars like so that I could play sports and buy instruments to be in the band at school.
00:55:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:57
Speaker
My parents could have had a new car and I could have had TV as a hobby exclusively.
00:56:03
Speaker
Like, what was I, what a insufferable, naive prick.
00:56:08
Speaker
And that song somehow captures all of that, right?
00:56:12
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
00:56:14
Speaker
And I love it because cars are such a big part of Bruce Springsteen's sort of body of imagery that he returns to.
00:56:21
Speaker
It's part of that blue collar rock star persona.
00:56:25
Speaker
But it's a motif that he references a lot.
00:56:27
Speaker
And so to sort of flip it on its own head here and be like, look, I see the holes in it too.
00:56:33
Speaker
It was really, I thought, honest and cool.
00:56:36
Speaker
It actually did.
00:56:37
Speaker
I love that you brought up it as a motif for him.
00:56:40
Speaker
It immediately made me think of, it always struck me as so strange how specific he was about sitting next to her in this truck in the song The River.
00:56:51
Speaker
And I always thought, this is such a beautiful song.
00:56:54
Speaker
Why do you keep bringing up this truck?
00:56:57
Speaker
And then you listen to this, which came immediately after, and it's almost like,
00:57:01
Speaker
okay, so this is what was in your head.
00:57:03
Speaker
That was the way you communicated it.
00:57:05
Speaker
And I was too dense to understand.
00:57:07
Speaker
Pink Cadillac too.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:11
Speaker
Good stuff.
00:57:12
Speaker
God, I love Bruce.
00:57:13
Speaker
What an artist.
00:57:15
Speaker
Goodness gracious.
00:57:17
Speaker
All right.
00:57:18
Speaker
You got any other discussion questions?
00:57:20
Speaker
Yes, I do.
00:57:21
Speaker
I'm glad that you asked.
00:57:24
Speaker
You have to an extent answered this already.
00:57:27
Speaker
But the book was very, very, very chronological, like down to when he went and interviewed Bruce, when they went and revisited these places.
00:57:36
Speaker
This happens, this happens, this happens.
00:57:38
Speaker
Retelling the events.
00:57:40
Speaker
And the comment I wrote here when I asked this question, or wrote it down to ask you, I don't see this making a very fun movie to watch.
00:57:48
Speaker
Nope, it doesn't.
00:57:49
Speaker
Okay, so my question was, how do they deal with the timeline in the movie?
00:57:54
Speaker
Yeah, like I said, it starts in 81 at the end of the River Tour with, I want to say two or three sort of flashes back to his childhood.
00:58:04
Speaker
But otherwise, it is chronological.
00:58:06
Speaker
He's writing this album alone at home.
00:58:09
Speaker
And he's trying to decide whether it's one album, whether it's a double album, whether these songs all belong together.
00:58:14
Speaker
And every once in a while, he goes on a date.
00:58:16
Speaker
Every once in a while, he records a song.
00:58:18
Speaker
And that's pretty much it until it comes time to sort of like he has that famous panic attack at a state fair.
00:58:26
Speaker
And that's sort of that's really the beginning of the end of the movie because he starts to seek help after that.
00:58:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:33
Speaker
And then that's it.
00:58:34
Speaker
Then he goes on tour for Born in the USA.
00:58:38
Speaker
And absolutely blows up and has a problem with Reagan.
00:58:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:44
Speaker
So it's not, unfortunately, it's not a very fun movie.
00:58:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:47
Speaker
That's not the answer I expected, but it is interesting that we had similar impressions.
00:58:52
Speaker
Sometimes, yeah, it's weird that things align the way they do.
00:58:55
Speaker
Last question I wanted to ask, whether there was an artist biopic or like this sort of an album that you'd like to see a movie made about or something, if anything, pops into your head.
00:59:06
Speaker
I mean, yes, unfortunately, one artist immediately pops into my head.
00:59:10
Speaker
Another artist that I've written an essay about, but this is going to matter to no one listening.
00:59:15
Speaker
I would love a biopic of...
00:59:18
Speaker
Russian born bass phenom, Sergei Kusevitsky.
00:59:24
Speaker
But I don't think they're making that.
00:59:25
Speaker
Yeah, he was at the Moscow Conservatory in 98, 1898.
00:59:29
Speaker
Yeah, I don't see that coming.
00:59:34
Speaker
Who would I who would I actually you know what, Victor Wooten.
00:59:38
Speaker
That's what we're missing in the world a biopic of Victor Wooten.
00:59:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:42
Speaker
Incredible family.
00:59:44
Speaker
That's that tour.
00:59:44
Speaker
Blair and I went to see last year.
00:59:46
Speaker
They have one brother that passed, but then the other four brothers are all incredible players.
00:59:52
Speaker
The keyboard player played with, I want to say Steve Miller band, future man, the drummer, incredible.
00:59:58
Speaker
He invented the drumitar also always dresses like a pirate.
01:00:02
Speaker
I mean, just, and Wooten, obviously the best electric bass player alive, arguably best electric bass player ever.
01:00:09
Speaker
So there's my answer to that.
01:00:12
Speaker
Who would you pick?
01:00:12
Speaker
You get to say it and they start making it tomorrow.
01:00:15
Speaker
There was a concert in Manchester in 1964.
01:00:19
Speaker
Muddy Waters and Sister Rosetta Tharp headlined.
01:00:22
Speaker
And it's known as one of the more influential events in music, like pop music history, because of who was in the audience, who was watching.
01:00:29
Speaker
Like the Stones were there, the Who was there.
01:00:32
Speaker
All of these people that sort of had their world rocked by these two pioneers of rock that were on the sort of downward slope of their careers.
01:00:40
Speaker
And this
01:00:41
Speaker
specific concert really reinv... See, now I'm like, wouldn't it be cool to see a movie I don't know anything about?
01:00:46
Speaker
And I'm spouting out every fact.
01:00:48
Speaker
Let me tell you all about it.
01:00:51
Speaker
But I think it would be a really cool story.
01:00:52
Speaker
And one, you know, we get movies about Elvis and they kind of glance over how much he stole from
01:00:59
Speaker
black culture and rock music and so I think I'd really like to see this Manchester 1964 concert it like rained while they were performing they were performing on an abandoned train station I think it may be the broadcast of it maybe broke some television viewing records wow yeah and it's just something that I feel like nobody has heard about and I'd love to see yeah I'd love to see it get a spotlight but maybe that's a better documentary too I don't know
01:01:28
Speaker
um so you would so this music event as opposed to an individual yeah i think i'd like those better these like birth to death biopics i'm like yeah
01:01:43
Speaker
you can only fit so much in two, two and a half hours.
01:01:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:46
Speaker
Like I said, the story is basically just really good artists worked really hard, did some drugs, got a divorce, died.
01:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
01:01:56
Speaker
And so I kind of like these sort of smaller moments that were impactful, this album or when Bob Dylan, you know, the movie was about him introducing electric instrumentation.
01:02:07
Speaker
Yep.
01:02:08
Speaker
Tend to like those a little bit better.
01:02:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, those are those are interesting.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, no, you've convinced me I want to see that as well.
01:02:17
Speaker
That bio, is that still a biopic at that point?
01:02:20
Speaker
I feel like that's firmly into documentary territory.
01:02:23
Speaker
Maybe.
01:02:23
Speaker
Yeah, certainly.
01:02:25
Speaker
Certainly just historical drama at the very least.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:30
Speaker
But as far as Deliver Me From Nowhere goes, what are you rated on Goodreads?
Final Thoughts and Ratings
01:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, so this was really tough for me.
01:02:36
Speaker
I feel like, I hope we're in a similar boat here.
01:02:40
Speaker
It's almost like the content is so cool.
01:02:43
Speaker
that the delivery method was going to be underwhelming.
01:02:46
Speaker
You know?
01:02:46
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:48
Speaker
I have a similar thought, but yeah, go ahead.
01:02:50
Speaker
This got a firm three out of five for me.
01:02:53
Speaker
And it's strictly because I can't tell, I'm not convinced that this was what he wanted it to be, or I'm not convinced of what he wanted it to be as far as Zane's goals in this endeavor.
01:03:06
Speaker
Right?
01:03:07
Speaker
Sure.
01:03:07
Speaker
The research and dedication to capturing a wealth of accurate knowledge
01:03:11
Speaker
is very much commendable, right?
01:03:15
Speaker
The interviews with Springsteen himself, spectacular, the collection, even the collating of all of that data, I will argue, spectacular, admirable.
01:03:28
Speaker
But the ultimate pursuit felt aimless.
01:03:30
Speaker
If he wanted to be entertaining, this was too dry and just a series of facts, right?
01:03:36
Speaker
If he wanted it to be just presenting all of this information he found, it was longer and more dramatic than it needed to be, right?
01:03:44
Speaker
If it was just an exhaustive love letter to the boss's career, then I think that's probably the nearest that this is to.
01:03:54
Speaker
And I would say you achieved that goal.
01:03:55
Speaker
It's a strange goal, but achieved.
01:03:58
Speaker
But then don't tell us that it's just a slice of history and discussing one particular album.
01:04:06
Speaker
Right?
01:04:06
Speaker
Right.
01:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, totally.
01:04:08
Speaker
So that being said, I'm not really sure who I would recommend it to.
01:04:13
Speaker
Maybe really, really big music nerds that I already know are very fond of Springsteen.
01:04:22
Speaker
Sure.
01:04:23
Speaker
But otherwise, yeah, your average reader, I would have a tough time saying you are going to enjoy these 320 pages and they're well worth your time.
01:04:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:34
Speaker
Similar boat here.
01:04:35
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:37
Speaker
I think I've landed on giving it a three as well.
01:04:39
Speaker
I really saw the movie last night and it took me until this morning to figure out what I was going to rate it because they're
01:04:47
Speaker
There's no way that I wasn't going to feel attached or feel something for this movie about this artist that I love so much.
01:04:54
Speaker
Yes.
01:04:54
Speaker
Which is why it did get a heart from me on Letterboxd, despite, you know, somewhat lower rating than I would have liked.
01:04:59
Speaker
But yes, similar.
01:05:01
Speaker
I don't know exactly what the movie was trying to say.
01:05:04
Speaker
Like I said, its thesis is kind of like Bruce Springsteen had depression too.
01:05:08
Speaker
And you're like, yeah.
01:05:10
Speaker
We know.
01:05:12
Speaker
And maybe, again, maybe that's because we're such big fans, or maybe that's because we've listened to the actual lyrics on some of his albums.
01:05:20
Speaker
But I do also want to give a shout out.
01:05:22
Speaker
I think it's important, especially regarding men, to have these conversations around mental health.
01:05:29
Speaker
Although I don't know that the movie goes like...
01:05:31
Speaker
in depth enough to call them conversations so much as kind of just highlighting the fact that Bruce Springsteen had depression and anxiety and his father had schizophrenia as well.
01:05:39
Speaker
That's, that's, you know, outside of these moments where these moments, I guess, of representation is what I would call it in terms of mental health.
01:05:48
Speaker
The movie doesn't do a lot.
01:05:50
Speaker
Like I said, not confident in the album.
01:05:52
Speaker
Crazy.
01:05:53
Speaker
That's sort of unforgivable in a movie about any given album.
01:05:58
Speaker
If they made a movie about Michael Jackson's thriller and spent the whole time talking about bad, I'd be like, what the hell?
01:06:03
Speaker
Yes.
01:06:03
Speaker
Yes.
01:06:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:04
Speaker
Why'd you make this movie?
01:06:05
Speaker
Exactly.
01:06:06
Speaker
Yes.
01:06:07
Speaker
So the people, if I were to recommend it to somebody, it would be very similar.
01:06:11
Speaker
People that I know are fans of Bruce Springsteen.
01:06:13
Speaker
It's really not going to get a recommendation from me because it's like a cool, good movie to watch.
01:06:18
Speaker
It's similar to a lot of the new Hollywood movies that I've talked about on this podcast at this point, almost at nauseam.
01:06:27
Speaker
The one that really stood out to me was Easy Rider because it has the same like very loose plot and it's about people discovering themselves.
01:06:33
Speaker
So
01:06:34
Speaker
Maybe if you're into that movie or into how that movie operates.
01:06:38
Speaker
And I actually do like that movie quite a bit.
01:06:40
Speaker
But this might appeal to you more.
01:06:42
Speaker
You just have to really be ready for this sort of liquid plot that doesn't solidify really.
01:06:48
Speaker
Yep.
01:06:49
Speaker
Yep.
01:06:49
Speaker
So we'll see.
01:06:50
Speaker
It's going to stay at a three and I'm not going to think about it anymore because I think if I think about it too much, I'll knock it down.
01:06:55
Speaker
And I don't want to do that because I love Bruce Springsteen.
01:06:58
Speaker
Yep.
01:06:59
Speaker
Yep.
01:06:59
Speaker
So, yeah, that's, you know, you, you posit some curious thoughts, you know, is it, would someone who loves born in the USA, and that's the extent of their knowledge of Springsteen, find this wildly informative, you know?
01:07:13
Speaker
Yes, maybe.
01:07:16
Speaker
It just feels like it was a trick, like including that was a trick to create clips that they could put in the trailers to get your butt in the seat because people aren't like, I can't wait to hear a mansion on a hill.
01:07:27
Speaker
Yes.
01:07:28
Speaker
You know?
01:07:28
Speaker
Yes.
01:07:29
Speaker
Yep.
01:07:30
Speaker
I mean, I guess it's kind of also about the creation of Porn in the USA because half of it was written for Nebraska.
01:07:35
Speaker
But
01:07:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:36
Speaker
I don't know.
01:07:37
Speaker
It's just kind of a nothing burger.
01:07:38
Speaker
I don't know.
01:07:39
Speaker
I see.
01:07:40
Speaker
I do.
01:07:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:41
Speaker
I almost want to walk back a little bit of my criticism.
01:07:43
Speaker
I see why the context of the preceding and proceeding albums are necessary.
01:07:50
Speaker
It's almost, I wish it had been painted in that light then.
01:07:54
Speaker
Not just this is about Nebraska.
01:07:57
Speaker
Like maybe say Springsteen 80 to 84.
01:08:01
Speaker
You know, something like that.
01:08:03
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:04
Speaker
That would have a
01:08:05
Speaker
better arc for sure.
01:08:07
Speaker
I mean, there's no different expectation.
01:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's no change really in Bruce Springsteen.
01:08:11
Speaker
I mean, technically, at the end, he's like a happier person.
01:08:13
Speaker
He's embarked on the born on the USA tour.
01:08:16
Speaker
So there is technically a change.
01:08:17
Speaker
But if you were to look at like the movie, as a whole, almost like screen time wise, it's Bruce Springsteen doesn't change throughout this story.
01:08:24
Speaker
There's no development for anybody.
01:08:27
Speaker
Well, it's such a specific time, you know,
01:08:31
Speaker
Out of 20 studio albums, in that context, looking at three of them is, oh, only three of them.
01:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
01:08:39
Speaker
That's true.
01:08:40
Speaker
Okay.
01:08:41
Speaker
Yeah, that's so fascinating that we both absolutely love Springsteen, and this is probably the lowest rating anything's gotten from us collectively.
01:08:50
Speaker
I think so, too.
01:08:51
Speaker
Yeah, a little bummed, but I kind of saw it coming.
01:08:54
Speaker
When they titled it Springsteen, Deliver Me From Nowhere, when they added that Springsteen, because that was not how it was originally developed.
01:09:00
Speaker
It was just going to be called Deliver Me From Nowhere.
01:09:02
Speaker
So when they retitled it, I was like, uh-oh, they've sensed some trouble.
01:09:06
Speaker
They're going to do whatever they can to get butts in seats, and that's not necessarily positive for me.
01:09:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:09:14
Speaker
No, I see what you mean.
01:09:15
Speaker
It's like a trouble on the horizon.
01:09:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:19
Speaker
I mean, I'm glad I read it.
01:09:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:21
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:09:22
Speaker
There was no way I was going to miss this movie.
01:09:24
Speaker
Right.
01:09:24
Speaker
Springsteen fan.
01:09:25
Speaker
And it's just not going to be one I probably ever think about again.
01:09:29
Speaker
Yes.
01:09:29
Speaker
Yes.
01:09:29
Speaker
I have no doubt.
01:09:30
Speaker
I will never reread it.
01:09:31
Speaker
I'll prob I'll probably buy a copy and send it to my dad, but yeah.
01:09:35
Speaker
Hmm.
01:09:36
Speaker
Anyway, next up, I think we will have a banger on our hands.
01:09:39
Speaker
So hopefully it'll turn things around.
01:09:41
Speaker
We are talking about Frankenstein by Mary Shelley.
01:09:44
Speaker
Awesome.
01:09:45
Speaker
For sure.
01:09:45
Speaker
The new Guillermo del Toro adaptation, um,
01:09:48
Speaker
I haven't quite decided how many other ones I'm going to have time to watch.
01:09:51
Speaker
Well, Mel Brooks, obviously.
01:09:53
Speaker
That's not even Frankenstein.
01:09:54
Speaker
That's a different story based on Frankenstein.
01:09:57
Speaker
Anyway, thank you for joining us today for our discussion on Deliver Me From Nowhere.
01:10:01
Speaker
Skip the movie and the book, listen to the album.
01:10:03
Speaker
Yep, yep.
01:10:04
Speaker
And then listen to a bunch of other Bruce Springsteen stuff and enjoy yourself.
01:10:09
Speaker
Thanks for joining us and we look forward to our next discussion.
01:10:13
Speaker
Bye.
01:10:13
Speaker
Bye.
01:10:15
Speaker
That's the show for today.
01:10:16
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in.
01:10:18
Speaker
Let us know in the comments what you're reading, what you're watching, and what adaptations you'd like us to cover.
01:10:22
Speaker
Be sure to follow us on Instagram at adaptation underscore pod and on Twitter at adapt pod.
01:10:28
Speaker
See you next time.
01:10:29
Speaker
I'm