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AI That Delivers, Solving RFP Headaches, and What Buyers Really Want
38 Plays2 days ago
The contingent workforce space is full of AI talk, but buyers and staffing firms are still dealing with the same core problem: too much noise and not enough clarity. Firms are trying to stand out, buyers are trying to sort real capability from claims, and RFPs are still one of the most time-consuming parts of the process. So, what actually matters when decisions get made — and what doesn’t?
In this episode, co-hosts Rob Geist and Casey Wagonfield sit down with Mickey Pelletier, Founder & CEO of CWM Strategies and cwRFP, to break it down. With 17+ years across MSP, VMS, and the client side, Mickey shares where AI can genuinely help without adding more noise, what buyers actually look for in staffing partners, how firms can differentiate once they’re in a program, and how to make the RFP process less painful for everyone involved. For anyone trying to win more deals, simplify RFPs, or use AI in a way that actually helps, this is a must-listen.
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Transcript
Introduction to AI in Staffing
00:00:00
Speaker
If you're in staffing or you run a contingent workforce program, this episode's for you. We're getting real about how AI is showing up in this space right now, what's actually useful versus what's just noise, and how to use it without turning into spain.
00:00:13
Speaker
We're also talking about what buyers actually look for from suppliers, what makes a staffing partner stand out once they're in, and why ah RFPs feel like a painful group project every single time.
00:00:23
Speaker
If you want practical takeaways you can use immediately, stick around.
AI in Temporary Staffing: Reality vs. Hype
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome to Staffing Made Simple, A podcast series powered by Simple VMS. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Staffing Made Simple. I'm Rob Geist, Senior Vice President at Simple VMS. And today we're going to talk about a few things everybody's dealing with right now.
00:00:45
Speaker
AI showing up in temp staffing, what's real versus what's hype, how suppliers can stand out without sounding like every other supplier out there.
Meet Nicky Pelletier: Humor and Expertise in Staffing
00:00:57
Speaker
And we're going to talk about ah RFPs because if you've ever lived through one, you already know. As always with me today, my co-host Casey Wagonfield, a guy with a lot of staffing knowledge and a little better golfer than I am.
00:01:11
Speaker
And he's never seen a microphone that he didn't like. Hey, at least you've met him now. This one's going to be a good one. with Like Rob said, we're hitting AI from both sides. What buyers want to see inside contingent workforce programs and how staffing firms can use AI without getting lazy or spammy. We're going to get into what makes programs run smoothly in the real world.
00:01:29
Speaker
Manager behavior, supplier performance. And we'll wrap up with some ah RFP segment because buyers and suppliers both want that process to suck less. So with that said, we're going to bring in in our guests and I'm pumped for this one because today we've got Nicky Pelletier.
AI's Impact on RFPs and Workforce Decisions
00:01:42
Speaker
He's the founder of CWM Strategies, an independent consultation and advisory to help clients build and evaluate their contingent workforce programs. And CWRFP, which is a much needed RFP response platform for the contingent workforce industry. He spent 17 plus years designing, implementing, operating, and scaling contingent workforce programs.
00:02:04
Speaker
And he's done it basically across every seat in the ecosystem. So MSPs, VMS providers, and the client side. What I like about Mickey is he doesn't just talk theory. He's really big on change management, simplifying what actually works, cutting through the noise and the busy work.
00:02:19
Speaker
that makes programs harder than they need to be. He also brings some personality to this industry. If you don't follow Mickey on LinkedIn, you need to. He's not afraid to mix real talk with humor. Mickey, welcome to Staffing Raid Simple.
00:02:31
Speaker
Gentlemen, thanks for having me here. You know how to make a man blush. What an intro. Thank you so much. So glad to be here. When I say follow Mickey on LinkedIn, first time I saw you on LinkedIn, it was like the Goosebumps series. You did like a thing on Goosebumps, like The ah RFP nightmare, right? Like a play on goosebumps. was nostalgic for me, just reading goosebumps as a kid.
00:02:52
Speaker
It's the the nuance and nonsense of our industry. It's what I call it. Try to make light of it because we take ourselves pretty seriously, but at the same time, we got to poke at ourselves a little bit, poke at our industry and try to have a little fun with it while we're getting some work done along the way.
00:03:06
Speaker
you know, I get it. And I know, Mickey, you're big into AI. You talk about it a lot. You write blogs about it I just kind of want to define this for people because, you people say like AI application in a contingent workforce program, can you just kind of explain to people what that means?
00:03:21
Speaker
Yeah. give you a real simple definition. I kind of think of it as two different things, depending on what you're saying. The AI application itself, the tool you're using, but then there's also the actual how you're applying AI to problems and tasks. So could kind of mean two things, depending on you're talking about it.
00:03:39
Speaker
If you're consulting with a buyer of staffing of contingent workforce today, where could AI make an impact first and bring real value?
00:03:49
Speaker
Where would you see that kind of plugging
AI Automating and Predicting in Staffing Programs
00:03:51
Speaker
in? Yeah, I mean, i think without knowing a company right off the bat, two things that I think where AI can really make an impact is some sort of AI-assisted RFP and supplier evaluation.
00:04:02
Speaker
You think about the amount of time procurement, MSP times, won't say waste, but spend on tracking RFP responses, scoring them, supplier benchmarking, you know, all of that can be quite the effort.
00:04:14
Speaker
Obviously, AI could parse those requirements and surface relevant prior answers from a knowledge base, flag some inconsistencies and really help them. I think with human in the loop layered on top, that can really cut down that time to get to a meaningful outcome. I think a second place is really in that job requisition intelligence and demand intake, know, that workforce decisioning. What are the problems you're actually trying to solve with talent and that type of demand shaping at the intake stage, I think instead of reacting to them, you can more proactively do that. And i think that's a use case that directly touches compliance, cost, speed, a lot of the things that we look at in programs.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah. And I've noticed too, especially from the staffing side, a lot of agencies we've talked to are investing in the AI that does the busy work for them, right? Helps them focus on actually recruiting for their clients versus data entry and things like that. So starting there, I think, especially from the staffing side, there's just so many options for AI. I think a lot of people just get overwhelmed. They're like, where do we even start?
00:05:17
Speaker
Certainly there's a lot of ah drudgery it can take away. And so, yeah, without a doubt, there's a couple different places I think you can really start. It's all about making
Human Elements: Trust and Relationships in Staffing
00:05:27
Speaker
things less painful, but it always comes back to what are the problems you're trying to solve? And then what's the actual right way to apply ai And it's becoming overwhelming. There's a new tool, a new release, a new 4.6, 4.7 that you see from some of these tools coming out every day.
00:05:44
Speaker
And I try to break it down. like There's sort of three main uses of AI. Some of them have been around longer than we've seen. Think about automation, rules-based thing. It does exactly what you tell it. Like, hey, every time an invoice arrives, you extract a field and route to an approver. That's not terribly new. That's been around for a while. a lot of VMS technology is based around that. and And that automation is a form of AI and then we've seen predictive AI, which is you're learning from historical data patterns to forecast outcomes. Like this requisition has a 73% chance of going unfilled because of the rate, location or title. And then what we've really seen, which has allowed AI to take off into the mainstream is the generative AI, which is creating that context of text, code, images.
00:06:33
Speaker
kind of by learning the underlying structure of data. So i think that's where it gets a little muddy is that the modern product layers all three of these together. And so a good platform might use automation to trigger a workflow, predictive AI to flag a risk, and then generative AI to draft a communication about it. So when vendors...
00:06:57
Speaker
say AI could often mean one or all three interchangeably. And that can get incredibly confusing. Meanwhile, you just want to make sense of how can I make my life easier and get things done faster.
00:07:09
Speaker
There's just so much out there right And every day it seems like some new product coming out. I was like, man, I'm still trying to figure Claude out. Let alone the 18 other things that just came out today. Absolutely. So everybody's looking at AI, obviously it's changing daily, but obviously there's some things, especially within a a contingent workforce program that have to be human, right? There's some things that a human has to take over this. What are things that AI just can't take over? Like they have to have that human touch.
00:07:33
Speaker
So I think one thing about our industry, it's human-based, right? And I think that's one thing. I would say it protects us flat out from AI, but it's the human industry. We're putting humans to work here, and there's a lot of relationships involved. So there's certain things where AI can augment and boost, but it can't take away.
00:07:50
Speaker
Things like supplier relationship decisions. You can't just go and off board long tenured supplier, renegotiate a partnership. You can use it to help with some of the data and the metrics behind it. It can inform, but the human needs to own that conversation and the judgment call around that.
00:08:08
Speaker
Speaking of judgment calls, you misclassification. When a worker is on the line between contractor and employee, that decision carries legal, financial, human consequences.
00:08:20
Speaker
The AI could flag it, but a human really has to make that decision. i think culture change, transformation, that's something where you have to build trust and credibility with the stakeholders. You could have the fanciest AI suite of tools, no algorithm or anything is going to fix broken trust.
00:08:38
Speaker
So I think someone has to really walk the floors, build credibility and be able to, again, have that relationship, which ultimately builds to that trust.
Key Metrics for a Healthy Staffing Program
00:08:49
Speaker
Absolutely. Love it.
00:08:50
Speaker
And now i'm I'm a big proponent of using it to supplement human stuff because I'm just a relationship person being in sales. So it is scary to a lot of people, I think, but it is also good because all the experts on AI that come in here, they've all said things like, yeah, this is just to supplement what the humans are actually already doing and make them more efficient.
00:09:10
Speaker
So if you were evaluating someone's staffing program, like a buyer, what are the biggest signals that tell you it's a truly healthy program? What metrics or behaviors tend to be the biggest truth tellers when it comes to that?
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think healthy is subjective. I think maturity is more a myth than an actual like marker that we need to move to. you i think that the important thing is that you have benchmarks and you know what something looks like.
00:09:39
Speaker
But at the end of the day, all that matters is are your managers and business getting the talent they need at the right rates, compliantly? Is your program able to move ahead?
00:09:49
Speaker
think we've put a lot of stock in, oh, you're only a level four, you're a Gen three, you're a Gen four a Gen one program. And that's fine, I guess. But what matters is, are you solving the problems? And do you know what the problems are that you need to solve? And then are you building around that?
00:10:06
Speaker
I think one of the biggest things that we lack in this industry Is the right representation at the leadership table from a contingent workforce perspective? You see companies, 30, 40, 50% of their workforce is made up of non-employee talent.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yet you have a program team of two or three plus an MSP managing all that. Yet how much of the people represent HR and the whole FTE side of it? So I think that maturity is one way to look at it, but it goes back to finding out what are the priorities that you have and what means the most to you. And you could have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want. You have to prioritize and make sure that you're doing the right thing for your company to get where you need to go.
National vs. Local Agencies: Data-Driven Decisions
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah. What's Mark Winner saying, Rob? You can have, yeah there's three things. You can only have two of the three, right? Price. yeah
00:10:57
Speaker
Quality. Speed, I think. Pick which two you want. One of your blogs, Mickey, I was reading the work between the work you talked about where you basically said contingent workforce programs have a visible layer and a hidden one.
00:11:10
Speaker
Really good article. Listeners should go check that out, but maybe explain that. I was just sort of touching on the contingent workforce program being underrepresented, undervalued, sort of an unsung hero.
00:11:22
Speaker
They do a lot of these external things that people see. They work through the requisitions, submittals, interviews, placements, reporting, invoicing, things like that. But there's a lot of stuff that just goes on behind the scenes that can be a lot of busy work, a lot of tactical work of just continuing to move things through the process.
00:11:41
Speaker
cleaning up incomplete recs, explaining policy to a hiring manager and coaching suppliers on submittal quality, fixing data inconsistencies. So over time, I think you're just repeating yourself over and over and over. And it's not like child rearing where eventually your children get it You get it through to one manager and then you move on to the next manager and then those managers leave and the next ones move on. And it just becomes a very cyclical thing of explaining the same thing, doing these same tasks over and over, being very tactical versus less strategic. And I think that's one thing I don't know that a lot of people realize if they're not from the industry. We all know it because we see it. We talk to people on the buyer side that experience that day to day. And it's just an observation that I think is worthy of people's attention in our space.
Standing Out in a Saturated Market
00:12:28
Speaker
Absolutely. And one of the things I wanted to ask you is we just actually released an episode with Mia Evans-Cohn, probably know her from Siva Logistics. but We've had multiple buyers on our show here and we've had different things people talk about. what What seems to be trending is multi-site programs.
00:12:44
Speaker
What works, right? Is it a big national program supplying it? Is it local companies in the markets that you need them? Is it a hybrid of both? And from what I've seen, we do need a hybrid of both, right? Because you might have one agency fill in all your positions, but if that one agency in this one market isn't very good, we need to be able to use that local touch. I'm curious what your thought is about that.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, coming in from the outside, i always think the data should speak for itself. Performance metrics mixed with the relationship trust that have been built should be that answer. And really to show what's working for you now, but you should still think of the future and if your needs change. And if you don't have good data, particularly if a program that's just getting launched, I think that hybrid approach is sort of good default starting point.
00:13:31
Speaker
You'll leverage the big dogs, the tried and trusted names that... You're a generalist and sort of can service anywhere and anything. But then also look at those localized niche providers, whether that's a specific skillset or specific market, and then see how they perform. Let the data tell the story.
00:13:47
Speaker
i also think the relationships are important. If the relationship's really strong and it's also a strong performer, Man, mixing the performance data with the relationship, there's a lot of trust there and those end up being the strongest performers.
00:14:00
Speaker
So I think there's a lot of factors to look at. And again, going back to, you got to find out what works for you and understand what's the most important. Right. I used to drive me crazy when I was in staffing and selling, and I'd go to this massive company that's got 60 sites and they're like, well, we have to use this one agency. It's big national agency or something. They're like. But we would love to use you if we could. They're not getting us the people.
00:14:21
Speaker
But a lot of times they can't work outside of that. really It's kind of like you get what you get. That's why always thought, and I don't know why companies aren't doing more of a hybrid type of, and to your point, something that we talk to people about is when you have that data, you have a VMS that shows the time to fill, time to submit, turnover percentages, things like that. Now you can actually hold people accountable and see what works and what doesn't and go from
Crafting Authentic RFP Responses
00:14:44
Speaker
there.
00:14:44
Speaker
So Mickey, when you sat in the buyer's seat and you had staffing salespeople reaching out to you all the time, what immediately made you tune them out? What actually gets your attention?
00:14:56
Speaker
And then two-part question, if you had any advice to stand out to buyers, what would that be? Yeah. I mean, it's tough because it's a saturated market. There's what, 25,000 staffing providers in America, or maybe it's North America, but still that's a lot considering Fortune 5,000 companies that puts five suppliers per company with just the most basic of math there. So there's only so many ways to provide talent. There's only so many ways to reach out to people, right? So how do you really differentiate?
00:15:27
Speaker
That's the million dollar question. And The bland generic outreach that shows they don't really know much about me, the company or the program, they just want to say what they do, but not how they solve my problems.
00:15:39
Speaker
We heard stories at ProcureCon last week of folks reaching out to a light industrial company, talking about clinical healthcare positions. And it's just like, what are you doing?
00:15:49
Speaker
And so everybody had a good laugh. So making sure you do your research, I think is the most important thing. and I always struggle with the idea that like, oh, these people are only reaching out because they want my business. And I know that you can't avoid that, but and I never really liked that feeling. And I'm only worthy of attention because I have business to give at the time. So how do you avoid that?
00:16:10
Speaker
goes back to being genuine and authentic and yeah, maybe something can work out, but you and I all know this is a long game in the industry. Sales take years to take place.
00:16:21
Speaker
So playing the long game having genuine relationships, researching, understanding the needs and understanding what the problems are. And if they say no or, hey, try again later, you back off and you're attentive to that and just be a good person about it And it's a balance.
00:16:37
Speaker
It's a balance. I want to stay top of mind for you, but I don't want to be a nuisance. Don't want restraining order, but I want your business. And it's funny you say that because like, I don't like that feeling. Like they're just reaching out to me because they want my business. But I think that's where when somebody is truly personalized and does their research and really says something that you're like, wow, how did they even know that?
00:16:58
Speaker
That's the thing to me that would catch somebody's attention or would catch my attention. Being different than just sending you a big salesy, texty email that's a book that you're not going to read and delete, right? Send a personalized video or send something that is going to stand out.
00:17:12
Speaker
We had a guy on our last episode, Dale Dupree, awesome follow on LinkedIn. He runs a company called The Sales Rebellion. And it's all about getting people curious, making them feel something. Because to your point, there's 25,000 agencies out there and they're all going after the same people. So if you're not doing something to make them feel something or...
00:17:28
Speaker
make them remember you, then you're just going to look like the rest of the thousands of agencies that are calling every day. Yeah. It's a busy, saturated market out there and there's consolidation going on and the industry ebbs and flows. So it could be a tough one to be out there to make yourself unique.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah. And I'd say probably the hardest part for staffing companies and especially sellers is getting the meeting, right? If we can get to the meeting, we feel like we can sell it and we can get the business. But, you know, as somebody who has overseen programs, once a supplier is in, they're in the program, what keeps them there long-term?
00:18:02
Speaker
I mean, I think it's pretty simple, pretty straightforward. Performing well, doing well, being a good partner, following the rules, being proactive and Showing up when they're supposed to, but also providing feedback of, hey, this is going well, this isn't. And just bringing things that are meaningful to the to the client side leader. I don't know that there's any special trick there, but just being a good partner. What what do they say as a child? Treat people the way you would want to be treated. If you were in that seat, how would you want it to be?
00:18:32
Speaker
I had a client of mine not too long ago that told me, Rob, tell these suppliers, I want to have a relationship with somebody in leadership, not just the recruiter. And then if that person who's doing a great job for you, who's recruiting ends up going somewhere else, it's easier to replace them and not have a disruption in service. If there's somebody in leadership, that's actually got a relationship with the client knows what the needs are.
00:18:56
Speaker
It's just the simplest things. You kind of said, it's like everything you learned in kindergarten. That's literally all you need to do to be successful in this industry. And I think we mystify a lot of it.
00:19:07
Speaker
And going to the ah RFP topic, everybody's been in an ah RFP and my biggest frustration with RFPs is I do it and i spend all the time doing it. And then the client doesn't make any decision using RFP responses, which happens often surprisingly.
00:19:21
Speaker
But what do you think the biggest mistakes suppliers make in ah RFP responses? And what are the best ones do differently? I think ones that do well, they're authentic and they actually answer the question directly. Like, let's not add too much fluff. Let's just get to the point.
00:19:36
Speaker
think when you struggle, it's like you don't understand the actual problem. And then you just end up serving up a generic sort of canned answer that you had your favorite AI thing right for you versus actually speaking from the heart of your knowledge base of what makes your company, your company. And to me, great responses factor in the client's needs.
00:19:57
Speaker
priorities. They speak to how their problems are solved. Like i said, it's not rocket science. It's pretty straightforward. And we all know the RFP space can be a little bit of a game. Rob, you just talked
Introducing CWRFP: Simplifying RFP Responses
00:20:08
Speaker
about it. Take the time to put together this response and then you hear crickets. So it could be a disheartening game to play.
00:20:15
Speaker
Yeah, and that leads perfectly into our last question here in our last piece, because as the founder of CW RFP, what problem in the ah RFP process frustrated to you enough that you built this in the first place?
00:20:26
Speaker
And were you seeing it over and over that made you realize that there had to be a better way? Yeah, I mean it's funny, like what what you just cited there is sort of the reasoning behind it, you know, having just these sort of generic canned answers that are just not very specific.
00:20:41
Speaker
Like we said, it it's a game that we all have to play, but if we're going to play it, let's make it a little bit easier. so ah created this CWRFP, which is a responsible bill specifically for our industry and allows you to turn your past proposals into client-specific answers using a knowledge base you create based on your past answers. And we'll analyze your ah RFPs and allow you to provide client-specific answers. And it's not just like a chat GPT wrapper. It's using your knowledge base to generate these answers and giving you citations, letting you know where in your knowledge base it's coming from and
00:21:16
Speaker
So it could take some of that drudgery, that administrative burden, that repetitive work, and allow you to process and respond to RFPs in days instead of weeks and more consistent quality answers. And you don't have to always rely on SMEs that know everything to be a bottleneck. And you just have that centralized knowledge base and Now everyone I think can compete a little bit more equally on RFPs with the technology. So that's what I'm going for. Thanks for giving me a minute or two to talk about it here. Cause I think it's something that we need and folks could use.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah. And it's long overdue, man, just from doing RFPs back in staffing where you had, had an 86 page Word document. Some of the answers were five years old. Some of were last month. It's like filtering through and then just picking and choosing what you needed. So yeah.
00:22:02
Speaker
Let's not only ID that for you and and just make it easy for you. And then human in the loop, you validate everything and you get there a lot
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:22:09
Speaker
quicker. Yeah. And for anybody listening, definitely check it out. Reach out to Mickey. I've seen it. It's slick.
00:22:15
Speaker
He's done a really good job putting this thing together and it's only gotten better. I've seen some updates that you've done and made some changes since the last time I've seen it. So awesome to see. and Thank you. And Mickey, we appreciate you coming on, spending some time with us today.
00:22:28
Speaker
Where can listeners find you and learn more about CWRFP? Yeah, cwrfp.com or look me up, Mickey Pelletier on LinkedIn and would love to connect with you and chat all things ah RFP or just talk shop on anything in the industry in general.
00:22:44
Speaker
Thanks again, Mickey. That's a wrap for the show. Big thanks to everyone who listens to Staffing Made Simple. If you've got any value from this episode, do us a favor, follow the show, leave us a quick review and send it to a person who might learn something from hearing it.
00:23:02
Speaker
And if you're a buyer of staffing or a staffing agency who needs a VMS partner trying to simplify how to manage contingent labor, check out simplevms.com and connect with us on LinkedIn. We will see you guys next time.
00:23:17
Speaker
This has been an episode of Staffing Made Simple, powered by Simple VMS, the vendor-friendly VMS.