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Win the Relationship, Not the Deal: Rethinking Sales in Staffing
24 Plays3 days ago
In staffing sales, everyone claims to value relationships—but too often, the chase for quick wins takes over. This episode of Staffing Made Simple digs into what it really means to move beyond being “just another vendor.” They explore why clients can sense when your outreach is transactional, how to shift from chasing recs to earning trust, and what separates sales reps who get ignored from those who get invited to the table.
Joining us for this conversation is Casey Jacox, bestselling author of Win the Relationship, Not the Deal, and host of The Quarterback Dadcast. Drawing on his experience as a top national staffing salesperson, Casey shares how leading with service, consistency, and genuine curiosity builds lasting business partnerships. Whether you’re an account manager, recruiter, or sales leader, this episode will challenge how you think about success — and help you refocus on relationships that drive real results.
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Transcript
From Deal Chasers to Partners
00:00:00
Speaker
In staffing sales, everyone says they're about relationships. But if we're being honest, a lot of salespeople still act like deal chasers. They're pushing too hard, over-promising, sending follow-ups that sound more like spam than service.
00:00:13
Speaker
And the problem is clients notice. They can tell when you're in it for the quick win versus when you're in it to build something real. And that's what this episode is all about. How to stop just being another vendor and start becoming a true partner.
00:00:26
Speaker
We're breaking down principles behind building trust, setting the right expectations, showing up consistently and actually listening instead of just hearing. If you've ever wondered why some reps get ignored while others get invited to the table, this episode is going to hit home.
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome to Staffing Made Simple, a podcast series powered by Simple VMS.
00:00:48
Speaker
All right, welcome back to another episode of Staffing Made Simple, presented by Simple VMS, the most vendor-friendly VMS on the market
The Fast-Paced Staffing Industry
00:00:57
Speaker
today. I'm your host, Casey Wagenfield.
00:00:59
Speaker
Here's the deal. Our industry moves really fast. Everybody's chasing wrecks, chasing activities, chasing the scoreboard. And don't get me wrong, I get it. We've all got numbers to hit, but at some point you gotta stop and ask, am I just trying to win the next deal or am I actually building relationships that are going to last?
00:01:17
Speaker
And I'll be honest, I've fallen into the trap myself, head down, grinding, trying to get wins on the board. But the longer I've been in staffing, the more I've realized the reps who really stand out are not the ones who just get lucky on a few job orders.
00:01:30
Speaker
They're the ones that clients trust, the ones who show up consistently, even when they're not asking for something. And that's what I'm pumped about today. We've got a guest who's not only lived this out, but has turned it into a framework that anybody can use.
00:01:44
Speaker
So before we do bring him in though, let me bring in my co-host, senior vice president at SimpleVMS, Rob Geist, who I'm sure is also excited about this episode of being a sales leader himself.
00:01:54
Speaker
Absolutely, Casey. You nailed it. Everyone says that they care about relationships more than anything else in sales, but most people are driven by their leadership to get those short-term deals.
00:02:06
Speaker
How do you close something right now? That mindset. That's why I'm excited to have our guest today. He became an all-time leading salesperson at a large national staffing firm, and he did it by building relationships and focusing on trust and service over transactions.
Casey Jaycox: Relationship-Driven Success
00:02:21
Speaker
He's taken those lessons, written a book, called Winning the Relationship, Not the Deal, and now he helps salespeople rethink how they show up. He's also the host of the Quarterback Dadcast, which has aired over 300 podcasts, where each episode offers practical takeaways to become an ultimate quarterback and leader of your home.
00:02:43
Speaker
So with that, I'll introduce Casey J. Cox. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for coming on. I'm grateful to be here. Appreciate the kind intro, Rob and Case. It was nice finally meeting you guys at the AAS Group Conference last year. And Casey, thank you for being a guest on my podcast. That'll be airing pretty soon. I'm excited for everyone to learn more about you, the dad.
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, that was an awesome time. I appreciate that. And I know we're going to dig here into the book, but before we do that, and I know a lot of listeners, especially people on staff and know who you are, Casey, but now I'm sure there's people who don't.
00:03:12
Speaker
So I kind of wanted to set the stage from them. You're not just some guy who wrote a book. You've had an insanely successful sales career and you did it differently than most.
Career Journey and Book Inspiration
00:03:20
Speaker
So for those folks who don't know you are, can you walk us through your staffing journey?
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah, you bet. So I started in 2000 for a company called Hall Kenyon. Hall Kenyon was purchased by K-Force in June of 2004. I started as a contract hourly salesperson, which is really a silly decision to make, but I did it because I call this the Division II mindset.
00:03:38
Speaker
People who played sports at Division II, you always kind of have a chip on your shoulder where you're trying to prove. move to others that maybe you got a little bit more fighting the dog. But I literally was working for a barcoding labeling software company and my best friend got him Kelly Hanson, who's still in staffing. He convinced me to come try to interview this place called Hulk Kenyon. I really didn't understand what staffing was. I was like, wait a minute. So there's these contractors and the pay rate the bill rate.
00:03:59
Speaker
It was just so. foreign to me anyway i interviewed nine times finally got the job contract salesperson and they said it's probably gonna take six to nine months for you become a full-time employee which i was like another challenge there we go let's go and three months later they may be a full-time employee and then had some some amazing training at hall kenyan and amazing training k force and just got surrounded by really great people great teammates great clients spent 20 years at the end of my career was working with one large customer i think that the transition from staffing to services around understanding what professional services are s sow work
00:04:30
Speaker
That was a great fun journey to go through. But the idea of the book actually came probably about 2012, 2013, where I was literally training some people. And that's where the mindset of winning people really got clear.
00:04:41
Speaker
And then it became kind of ah a saying internally. And sometimes my buddies would give me a hard time, but to me, I was so passionate about it because at the end, if you win people, That's what really led me to have continued success at KFORS. And I was grateful to be our number one rep 10 years straight before I moved to an executive role and trained others how to do it.
00:04:56
Speaker
And the journey I'm on now, gentlemen, is something I really didn't mean to do. i knew i I meant to write a book and meant to start a podcast, but I did not mean to get into executive coaching performance work. I did not mean to become a speaker, but it is a full on calling.
00:05:09
Speaker
It's fun when you have experienced a lot to be able to share with others. I'm jealous. I get to share a lot of the stuff with my clients who are much younger me. Cause I was like, I wish I talked to somebody that was like me when I was 23. And the book is not like, let me tell you how great I am. It's more of a book. about Let me tell you where I sucked.
00:05:24
Speaker
Let me tell you where I struggled. And let me tell you what works and doesn't work based on my
Sales Philosophy and Tips
00:05:28
Speaker
experience. These are the things that I found to be successful more often than not. I love it. Casey, you and I have a lot of similarities and I really picked that up in reading the book.
00:05:38
Speaker
And I do think it's important to talk about your flaws and your weaknesses as much as toot your own horn. and But in the first chapter of the book, you talk about the Goldie rule, always treat people the way they want to be treated.
00:05:50
Speaker
That sounds simple, but I've seen salespeople struggle with that. How do you figure out in a world where everyone's so different and they all have different styles, how to present yourself to different people? Well, I think two things come to mind. One, I'm to give it love to uncle Rico. Cause I got to give, whenever I talk about my college football days, I got to give love to uncle Rico and make fun of myself there. But to me, it's like a quarterback. When I enter the huddle, I got to bring positive energy.
00:06:12
Speaker
Same thing with a salesperson. You got to bring positive energy. If you want your Korean team to work hard, you want your sales team, you work hard, wherever you want to be around. Like people want to be around people who are positive. The other thing around treating people we want to be treated that really hit home was when my first leader, before I got into staffing asked me a question, she goes, do you want to be right?
00:06:29
Speaker
Or do you want to get what you want? What's more important. And that piece of advice was so valuable for me in my staffing journey, because it's too often not people in staffing. I'm sure this will speak to you when you get a recruiter or tell you, oh my God, I have the perfect candidate.
00:06:42
Speaker
Well, how do you know, Mr. and Mrs. Rebooter? How do we know? So slowing someone down to say, listen, I know you want the deal. I want the deal, but we have to help make the client their idea. So we have to make the candidate their idea Because if we try to close anybody, they're going to resist us. So why don't we ask great questions, tell great stories, how we can help them.
00:06:59
Speaker
And then they're going to be the ones that close themselves. And so I think that was a mindset I had to change and adopt throughout that journey. But I think the staffing industry, I mean, this kind of sarcastically, but truth to it, it's the blame game industry.
00:07:10
Speaker
It's, I like to blame recruiting. Recruiting likes to blame sales. I like to blame the market. I like to blame my client versus there's 23 something odd thousand staffing companies out there. Why we have to argue with each other internally? Let's just treat each other with respect.
00:07:24
Speaker
Let's create an optimistic environment. And I'm going to show up knowing that you're not waking up thinking, man, I can't wait to get beat. I can't wait to send you crappy candidates. I can't wait to have my client lose budget. mean, no one's thinking these things.
00:07:36
Speaker
So the time we waste further going down this rabbit hole when things don't go their right way, I think that's why tried to start out of the gate. Like just bring positive energy, intent. If you don't know how to work with somebody well, maybe it's on you, and Mrs. Seller or Mr. and Mrs. Recruiter. Maybe we're not asking the right questions to meet someone where they are understand what motivates them, what drives them.
00:07:54
Speaker
I think positivity just in general, that's why we have such a great culture at Simple, right? It's just, it's a positive culture. That's why people love working here. And truly why companies love working with us. We used to hear that any conference we go to, we were at CWS last year and, you know global companies, we had stopped by our booth a few different times to talk with because they just liked us, right? They're like, you guys are fun.
00:08:16
Speaker
We want to work with you guys. It wasn't a match for us and them just based on the footprint, but they're like, you know, we know people and going to make introductions and we're cheering for you. but That would have never happened if we weren't just being positive and engaging with them. So it goes
Honesty and Expectations in Sales
00:08:30
Speaker
a long way.
00:08:30
Speaker
It does. Yeah. Absolutely. One of my favorite compliments I've gotten in sales meeting at times, you after you've called somebody and you finally get to the boardroom with them, they say, man, thank you for being persistent, but not pesty.
00:08:45
Speaker
And I think that there's a really intricate balance there. So it's easy to go overboard with follow-ups because many of us are taught activity equals results. How do you balance hustle with respecting someone else's buying cycle?
00:08:59
Speaker
yeah I got one very similar Rob. Mine was your persistence has reached diligence, not annoyance. So I think follow-up is a very good thing to talk about because most salespeople are not good at it. Most salespeople are following up for what he or she wants. And so what I learned is the art of using what I call third-person storytelling. So my follow-up is always using language that the customer told me or the target told me. So like if you guys said, hey, Casey, sorry, keep calling me the wrong time. Great. tell me would be better time to reach out to you.
00:09:23
Speaker
Call me next week. Hey, Casey, Rob, it's Casey with ABC company. I want to follow up per your advice. You told me to call you at 2 PM on Thursday is now a good time. So I think when that's done enough, when you're using the customer's words on when you're supposed to be what supposed to be doing, or if you're asking questions that are important to them because you've generated some kind of conversation.
00:09:41
Speaker
I've found over time that works a lot better than just, Hey, it's Casey with ABC company. I'm just calling to check in, which I used to always joke to people. That's code for wasting your time because don't know what else to talk about. But if I'm calling with a purpose, either something they said, something I saw on the news, something I saw on LinkedIn, something I saw about their business, something I know that has impacted their industry that they might find value in. it I use it in a question when following up.
00:10:03
Speaker
I found that usually can lead to better conversations versus me just selling like everybody else. Yeah. And it's funny you say that because when think about sales, people reaching out to your point and always asking for something, right?
00:10:14
Speaker
I've always been a fan of not every email has to be a withdrawal where you ask for something. You can be a resource where you provide something to them without asking for anything. And those are the things that they're going to remember not because you're going out of your way.
00:10:25
Speaker
I used to tell people, send them a wage analysis. They're always hiring for machine operators. Send them a wage analysis that breaks down the wage rates for a machine operator so they can see how they are against their competitors in that market.
00:10:36
Speaker
You're not asking for anything, but you're providing a resource for them. Yeah. I think so often people don't slow down to think about those things, but when you slow down to be uncommon, there's too many people that do things like everybody else, but we slow down and things that are uncommon and it can totally change the outcome of how that relationship might be formed.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I know in the next chapter, you talked about expectations. which is something a lot of people get wrong. A lot of salespeople get wrong. And I think a lot of that just comes down to wanting to get the sale right and missing some of those expectations they should be setting.
00:11:05
Speaker
Is there an example you can share from your career where not setting expectations or setting expectations the wrong way costs you? Yeah, actually there's a spot in the book where I talk about not following up when I was supposed to follow up.
00:11:17
Speaker
And i remember I knew I didn't remember to do It was really early in my career, which is why I learned to fall in love with the CRM and the activity function of it. But i I remember calling the customer and I said, Hey, it's Casey with, think it was Hall, Kenny the time. And I said, I'm pulling up.
00:11:30
Speaker
He goes, yeah, you're supposed to follow with me last week. it was just like crickets. was like, oh God, this is embarrassing. He's like, I actually gave the business to your competitor, but hey, thanks for following up but a week late. So he's kind of an a-hole about it, but I deserved it.
00:11:42
Speaker
That's why following up, hey, Casey, what I'm following up per your advice around project ABC that you talked about is now a good time. Again, it's not going to work every single time, but I think expectations is one of those simple things that we just don't slow down and think about.
00:11:55
Speaker
Like even set expectations for the candidate where to park, what to expect, what the team's like, where the manager went to college, what he or she likes. How about even when you finally got that client to call you back to give you up three positions, project managers, you're going to try to staff and you're not finding anybody. So now that's quickly to blame the recruiting team. Okay. I did my part. I got my job.
00:12:15
Speaker
Versus, well, maybe you didn't, maybe there's other questions you can be asking your client to make your life of your recruiting team easier. Maybe you can go out of your way to say, Hey, tell me, is there anything I do help your research strength? You need anything from me. Maybe then setting expectations with the client to saying, Hey, Mr. Mr. Klein. I just want to call to let you know that we're working really hard. We've called amount people. We've already screened out 15 of them.
00:12:34
Speaker
Tell me, what are you seeing for your side? I just want to set your expectations about what we're at. I used to get pushed back internally on that one, but I thought, again, I want to win a person. I know how I would like to be communicated with. And some is a lot better than none. So sometimes just by following up and setting their expectations of what we're finding, what's struggling, what's not.
00:12:52
Speaker
Cause sometimes they'd say there's no one available. The rate's too high. The rate's too low. You're not gonna find anybody. So if I led with that, Now, if I say, Hey, it's Casey with ABC company, I'm calling to say, we're not finding anybody. I think your rates too low.
00:13:03
Speaker
Then you walk your yourself right into, Oh, really? Cause your competitors have given me five people and i' have interviews next week of them. Now, what am i going to say? So I've seen salespeople that do that, right? They go in and accept a job order knowing that their recruiters can't fill it or, and rather than setting those expectations of, Hey, this isn't what we specialize in. We'll give a stab at it.
00:13:20
Speaker
We'll try to get some resumes for you, but. not over-promising and not delivering at all. I've worked with people who've over-promised a company. We had 100 forklift drivers ready to go, start tomorrow. And we didn't have 100 forklift drivers ready to start tomorrow, but I didn't come back to bite you.
00:13:37
Speaker
I don't like excuses from salespeople. I'm a firm believer in when you mess up, you fess up. And I think you just get respect from that. So another thing that is a challenge at times with salespeople and Casey touched on it is over promising and under delivery.
00:13:53
Speaker
What happens when you do that and how do you recover from that without losing a client? This is where I've learned about the three superpowers of life, which is being humble, vulnerable, and curious. When I can lean into those emotional intelligence based skills to know that, Hey, Mr. Pacific client based on our initial discovery call, I thought we were going to be able to do A, B, and C. It's quickly becoming a apparent. We're not just wanting to apologize and set your expectations.
00:14:15
Speaker
I know this might mean that you need to go to another vendor. That's not my ideal situation, but I want you to have a good outcome. I want you to make sure your project gets on time, whether it's one hundred percent with me, 80% with me, 20% of me in the end, I want to make sure that you're getting good service, honest communication, clear expectations so that I'm setting myself up to help you downstream. I mean, that's how I would approach that. I would be willing to probably bet that's more of an uncommon approach versus trying to convince ourselves that Oh no, we can do it. We need another day. We just need another hour.
00:14:42
Speaker
We'll find somebody. And what you end up doing is just like delaying the inevitable. Cause you're never going to fill every single wreck. You're never going to fill every single job, but you can strive to win every single person by how you communicate with them.
00:14:53
Speaker
You find out what's important to them, how you follow up them, how you remember things about them. That's a lot more realistic than winning every deal by winning more people. One of your chapters, you
Listening and Client Engagement
00:15:02
Speaker
talk about listening to your prospects and their clients, and you make a clear distinction between actually hearing them and listening to them.
00:15:09
Speaker
Maybe you can explain that. What's the difference of why do so many sellers get that wrong? The most simplistic way to find out if you're good at listening is how often when you meet with customer, are you saying phrases like, tell me more about that?
00:15:20
Speaker
Describe why that's important to you. Tell me what would happen if you didn't achieve that Mr. and Mrs. Customer. If you're someone that asks second, third, fourth level questions, I bet you're a great listener. If there's like, what the hell is he talking about? That probably means there's a gap and that's okay.
00:15:33
Speaker
It's okay to say there's a gap, but it's not okay not to do anything about it. So I would encourage you to realize that listening is a skill and ways that I approve that I've gotten better listening is what I send a meeting recap after I meet with a client and I tell them it's coming. I'm going to articulate.
00:15:46
Speaker
why I'm sending the recap. So i show you a customer that I listened to everything. I, I took things that are important to you. I'm making sure that I'm following up next steps based on things that you told me were important to you. Because hearing is subconscious. and I actually share a table in the book about subconscious listening behaviors and conscious listening behaviors.
00:16:04
Speaker
because we can hear sometimes an airplane buzzes over or we hear the fan on the other room, but listening requires us to be locked in. No notifications, put teams away, put Zoom away and asking follow-up questions, taking really good notes, either mentally or through AI or through your follow-up because I've never met somebody that said, man, I don't like that Casey guy at SimpleVMS. He's a great listener.
00:16:27
Speaker
So you want to get better at sales, be a better listener at home, be better listener with your kids, be better with your friends. And the better listeners are the ones that ask more questions versus the ones that keep talking the whole time about how they can help. Because i think when you get down that path, then you become like a common seller, which is you trying to close them versus I just want them closing themselves.
00:16:46
Speaker
Cause I've asked great questions. I've listened. I've told a story of how I can help them. Now they're going to be the ones to close themselves. ah On that same topic of listening rather than hearing, do you have any personal anecdotes where a client didn't say something directly, but you picked up on it and it changed everything?
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, this is like Vietnam flashbacks here, Rob. So I appreciate you taking me down my pain level here. One of my worst moments in selling was at Hall Kenyon. And I remember I was working with a healthcare care provider.
00:17:12
Speaker
I won't name them. And they told me this gentleman was going to introduce me to another group. And he said, yeah, just let him know that we're working together. Now, what I heard is working together. So like I'm supporting you.
00:17:23
Speaker
What I should have said was working together. What does that mean? How can I make sure I really articulate? Cause I want to make sure that he understands why I'm calling him. I didn't do that. So when I called this dude, he didn't take my call and then i emailed him.
00:17:34
Speaker
how he read the email made it sound like what was coming from me was that I falsely articulated my role. Like I was pretending to be someone that worked at the healthcare provider that did not work for a staffing company. And he thought I was trying to change the story, which I was like, not at all what I was doing.
00:17:49
Speaker
And, so the guy completely blackballed me. So the guy that introduced me went to bat for me. And so we actually had a conversation one day, but he never once gave me an opportunity ever since then. Because of how I didn't slow down to ask one more question to say, hey, Susie, I'm working with Casey and Rob and we're not really working together yet, but we're working to build a partnership. And they're looking to me to help them with ABC.
00:18:10
Speaker
They thought it might be a good idea for us to meet based on the services our company provides. So just a little bit more contextuality. And because I didn't do that, it backfired on me and I've had to live with that for last 25 years.
00:18:21
Speaker
So thank you for making down that path again. Well, you always remember the the ones you didn't get, right? You that's just a curse ah of us being
Learning from Mistakes
00:18:28
Speaker
in sales. I hope that there's maybe a more seasoned seller or sales leader listening that can learn from either me openly say why I once sucked and still suck at times.
00:18:38
Speaker
Because I think that's what shapes our cultures of teams is when we can remove fear and instill confidence with our teams, people can be at their best version of themselves. But I think so often in sales teams, we're chasing something that does not exist, which is called perfect.
00:18:50
Speaker
I've yet to meet the perfect seller or leader. Yeah. When you talk about not listening, and i think a lot of sellers do just go through the motion. So when they get a call and the client says every other day, they call for another 10 people, right? And it's just checking the box and going to fill it. But maybe it's not that they just need another 10 people. Maybe it's because their turnover is horrible and they can't keep those same 10 people. and those are The harder discussions you need to have with them as their staffing partner versus just being an order taker.
00:19:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think clients, they don't want to be told what they're doing wrong. And sometimes those are the internal conversations that you and your company have to have. Is that the customer we want to work with? The amount of time that we're investing in maybe restaffing positions because our client, maybe he or she's just not a good person or the environment just is not fun regardless of how important that revenue is.
00:19:34
Speaker
Those are, think, tough questions to have, but I think if I was going to deliver feedback to a client like and something like that, I would use a curiosity-based framework and I would ask, would they be open to feedback they've received from some of our consultants that have worked for you?
00:19:45
Speaker
I don't know if this is just a one-off Mr. and Mrs. Customer, but I would want to know this information and tell me, would it be okay if I shared some feedback? not saying they're right, but I'd love for you to share with you just to see if it's something you've heard from other companies or other consultants. But if this is something on us and our discovery that we try to figure out a better way to ask better questions, we'll do it, but at least want to share it with you. yeah In chapter four of the book, you talk about something which I'm better at now that I'm in leadership than I was when I was an actual individual contributor, but it's always documenting everything and then follow up. We talk about it a lot here at Simple with our team.
00:20:19
Speaker
Why do you think so many, even good sales reps are resistant to documenting? And I say documenting, the good sales reps are good at follow up, but they might not document it, even though it's such a simple differentiator.
00:20:31
Speaker
I think it's a mindset. I think it's lack of clarity from leadership to sellers. I think a good sales team and elite sales team, they understand the pain of not documenting. I like the example I shared earlier, because I did not document correctly and set the right follow-up activity. I lost revenue. Well, that was pain that I didn't want to go through again.
00:20:48
Speaker
I think people that understand CRMs are not also just for my manager to have he or she tell me what I suck at or am I doing right? It's also sellers. We actually can help our leaders be better at their job because now we can actually forecast better.
CRM as a Growth Tool
00:21:00
Speaker
We have to understand where's our pipeline coming from. And so if I understand that, oh my God, Casey's got a $66 million of pipeline. We gotta make sure we support them versus courting everything, not commuting everything, trying to fly the plane by yourself or take on the football team by yourself.
00:21:15
Speaker
You can't do that. You have to rely on your team. And so I think for me, people that embrace technology, let the technology manage you versus you managing it. I used to joke. I said, the day that the power went out was the day that I always get a little nervous.
00:21:27
Speaker
because of all my follow-up was done. i didn't know who to call. If I had this activity list that I go to work, I open up my email on one computer and the other computer was just all my CRM activities of when I would have to call people. And I would literally like, people used to joke and call me like robotic, but I'd rather get called a robot and be more efficient than people than the person that's a lazy, complacent excuse maker.
00:21:46
Speaker
But I think if you're not using a CRM to your fullest, even just the most simplistic of when you get off the phone with somebody, Make it their idea for when you're going to call them back and then just use their words when you call it back because it makes it so much easier when you're following up with people. And I think most salespeople, that's what they struggle with. They forget to do it.
00:22:04
Speaker
That fourth, fifth time, it's like, ah maybe there's no business here. Maybe there is, we're just not asking the right question. Right. And I think it just helps you remember where you left off. Keep good notes so you know where you left off the last time. And any more with all the AI that they have out there, I mean, it's taking notes for you, right? Just get it linked up to your ATS. And that's something that I struggle with and I continue to work on and get better. And Rob and I have talked about that because I came from...
00:22:29
Speaker
staffing and overseeing salespeople that put notes in and you've given them a hard time about putting notes in. Rob's like, yeah, so maybe we should have that conversation. fifty two So you have to have that mentality to make sure gets in there.
00:22:40
Speaker
I don't think enough leaders tell their team that it's not to micromanage them. It's to to help the team grow better. I think there's a little bit of a disconnect at times with certain people in leadership where if you just communicate that people, sometimes you get better results from it.
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah. And Rob makes a good point on our sales calls too. If you're documenting everything in there and then you're more coachable, right? If you're making all these calls, but you're not setting any appointments, maybe we need to work on your messaging.
00:23:06
Speaker
Or if you're setting all of these appointments, but we're not closing anything, maybe it's your closing and you're negotiating and giving a demo. Or maybe the leader asks more questions. hey team, tell me one or two reasons why using a CRM would help you.
00:23:18
Speaker
And tell me one or two reasons why CRM will not help you. make them kind of see both sides of it. And the six things I wrote about are things that I still work on to this day. I'm still not perfect at So i think everybody can relearn these things. And when things aren't going the right way, that's where I think you lean back in my curiosity.
00:23:34
Speaker
Everyone checks their ego and usually you can get back to the root of the problem. Do you think over follow-up exists or is it more just the quality of the follow-up?
Persistent vs. Pestering Follow-Ups
00:23:42
Speaker
I think quality of follow-up. I have someone following up with me right now. I'm not gonna name them, but they keep calling me to tell me they can help me write a book.
00:23:50
Speaker
And they have all these reasons why they can help me write a book. And wanna help them so bad. But like, if you actually said, Hey Casey, I know you've already written a book, but I think you got a second book and you hear some things only to think about. That's why I wanna schedule time with you.
00:24:01
Speaker
But the fact the person has done zero homework and i can tell them part of the automation follow-up, I'm not gonna take the time to go teach them because until they wanna figure out themselves, it's waste of time. You talk about something in chapter five.
00:24:14
Speaker
This is something that I really live by and I really do try to be my authentic self. Why do you think so many sales reps feel like they have to play a role instead of just being themselves?
00:24:25
Speaker
think it's twofold. One, I think it actually can be a leadership challenge because I think if the leaders don't set the right environment where people can be their authentic self, where it is celebrated to say, hey i don't know, i need some help. Then fear loves to hide, which I tell a lot of leaders I work with. And if you're not inspecting that, it's going to hide. It's going to create complacency, which leads to bad habits, which leads to loss revenue.
00:24:45
Speaker
So I think in environments where practice is encouraged, where they're able to mess up in front of their team and they can have fun with each other. And we're not just like going to a room for a two hour role play and we're not ourselves versus I walk down the hall and I say, Hey, Rob, tell me what you'd say if a customer said this.
00:25:00
Speaker
So it's like, you're trying to catch people off guard because that's what it's going to happen in the real world. So if we can create those same type of moments are going to happen when they happen, why then we increase the chance of having better outcomes.
00:25:11
Speaker
I think the reason why ego and practice are so important to me is when I played football in college, my coach made me practice every day. He wouldn't let me just show up on Saturdays and play. And when I go watch my beloved c Seattle Mariners, they still make them take batting practice and our pilots, they still got to go practice, take off some landings and go through a recurrent training.
00:25:30
Speaker
And doctors, they got to stay current, but yet us and staffing, we're that elite. We can just show up and wing it, which I don't think is the truth. And so I think if we just change our mindset and realize that practice is a part of the game and us checking our ego in the game and us realizing that it is okay to be myself, but the number one reason to be me is everyone else is already taken. So I bet as well be the best version of me.
00:25:49
Speaker
So I think it's more of a leadership issue than a seller's issue. Cause I think the leaders can really dramatically help increase when that authenticity shines. Yeah, and felt like I've been able to be more authentic over the years as I just stopped caring what people thought about me.
00:26:03
Speaker
You like me or you don't, but I'm still professional. think one of the better posts that I've had on LinkedIn this year is me on vacation with my family wearing a Bucky onesie on the beach, talking about this is my why, this is why I go to work every day, this is who I do it for, but people want to see real people.
00:26:18
Speaker
They want to see you for you, not just somebody that's too overly professional. Were you ever like that throughout beginning of your sales career, like just over polished or something like that? I was the overshare.
00:26:30
Speaker
My wife still jokes. She goes, your gift is saying the most inappropriate, weird, totally out of bounds comment, yet it comes across socially acceptable by your tone. And that sounds like a bad skill to have. But to me, I think just be yourself.
00:26:43
Speaker
For example, like I got a client right now. He broke his arm rollerblading. I go, have you told anybody that? He's like, no. I go, I would. A, not many people rollerblade anymore. In 1985, they did. But two, you did it you broke your arm.
00:26:54
Speaker
You're going to be remembered as the rollerblading arm guy. Be memorable. If someone said, hey, Case, how's your weekend going? My weekend's great. My daughter just committed to play college basketball where I played football in college. I'm super fired up about it.
00:27:05
Speaker
There's connection. We're going to talk about something with somebody. It has nothing to do with the sale of what we're doing. But when we have commonality that leads to rapport, that leads to trust, you increase the chance of you doing business with with somebody because there's a real relationship being built.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah, Casey, in staffing, there's a lot of pressure to feel like an expert. What advice do you give to people for admitting you don't know something without losing credibility to your prospect?
Authenticity and Patience in Sales
00:27:28
Speaker
Well, the story that comes to mind, Rob, is when I remember I was at the end of my corporate career and was meeting with a client who challenged me because he thought I should know a lot more about his business. And I said, with all due respect, Mr. and Mrs. Client, that's not my job. My job is to give you access to talent that you don't exists.
00:27:43
Speaker
I'm never going to come in here and tell you that you know your business way better than me. Now, if you want to judge me because I don't know your business as well as you, then I'm always going to lose. But if you want to judge me by how well I give you access to talent that you don't know or exist better than my competitors, that's what want to be judged on.
00:27:57
Speaker
And that was, I'd say my mic drop moments where there was some silence, but he looked at me, he was like, hmm, that's fair. So I think in these situations, it's a dangerous place to go for salespeople when you try to tell your client they know your business better than them because you don't, unless you've sat in the seat and you've done it.
00:28:11
Speaker
So for me, I think when you can use voice inflection, tone, curiosity as your strengths, as a skill, and then to let people know that you want to learn more about them, you want to learn about their business and why. i think when people know you're being authentic in your communication and how you're showing up, they're going to want to give you some grace, I found over time, that we will hopefully navigate that challenge.
00:28:30
Speaker
Absolutely. And in the last chapter of the book, you talk about how success takes time and you have to be patient and persistent. I know we talked about this a little bit prior, but what's the line between being persistent and being a pest?
00:28:45
Speaker
I've seen people follow up and one of Casey's favorite one-liners is, I followed up so much, they're going to ask for a restraining order. So give us the line on that. So I like to put people in buckets when I'm following up.
00:28:56
Speaker
If I'm going to be really persistent, I need to prove to myself that they would use our services. So for example, staffing, I'm going to prove that a recruiter talked to a candidate that he or she worked at this company and they were already using my competitor. Or my neighbor told me that this person would use our services.
00:29:10
Speaker
So somehow I can prove they use our services. If I can't, then maybe I'm not going to follow with as much in the short term. Again, my follow-up is always led by them. by the client. And if I'm going to ask the right questions, that's going to make my follow-up shorter.
00:29:23
Speaker
But I think follow-up can be really, really transactional, which is everything I don't teach. So make sure like you realize when you are following up that every word matters. Every voicemail matters, every LinkedIn post matters, every comment matters. And is it helping you get to that next opportunity with however you're going to work with that person.
00:29:38
Speaker
And I think if if you don't slow down and really think about what is this activity I'm doing, and is it helping me? Is it hurting me? But I think if there's one simple takeaway on follow-up, just make it the client's idea. Ask them when it would be a good time for them to follow up.
00:29:49
Speaker
If they say never, that's probably not gonna be a good contact in the first place. But if they give you, hey, call me in two months. Well, least that gives you something to prove that you listened, you follow up, which is our two skillsets that most salespeople are not good at that you're already gonna show
Personal Insights with Casey
00:30:02
Speaker
you're better.
00:30:02
Speaker
So Casey, before we wrap this up we're going to do something a little different this episode for the next minute, which you inspired me to do. So I thought this was a really fun idea that you do on your podcast.
00:30:13
Speaker
So we've got a few questions. We're going to rapid fire these questions. You can just fire back your rapid fire answer just to get people a little bit more insight on Casey Jaycox. So are you ready? Let's go. All right.
00:30:24
Speaker
First concert you ever went to. Garth Brooks. Nice. If you had a walk-up song, what would it be? Welcome to the jungle. Beach or mountain getaway? Beach.
00:30:35
Speaker
Favorite guilty pleasure snack? Ice cream. If you could instantly learn any skill, what would it be? Piano. Favorite sports team and player of all time?
00:30:45
Speaker
Favorite sports team, go... Oh, it's a tie. All things Seattle. Favorite athlete of all time, Ken Griffey Jr. Good answer. One word to describe your selling style.
00:30:57
Speaker
Curious. MJ or LeBron? Ooh, I've gone back and forth this one. I'm going LeBron. I did not expect you to be guy be August. I respect it though, but.
00:31:09
Speaker
I go back and forth. I go, I've i literally have argued for both sides. um I might change my mind again. Fair. Well, with the exception of that last answer, Casey, this good Great stuff. We really appreciate you coming on with us, sharing your story, the principles behind winning the relationship, not the deal.
00:31:27
Speaker
But before we let you go tell our listeners where they can learn more about the work you're doing with staffing agencies and of course, where they can find your podcast, The Quarterback Dadcast. Yep. Thanks for asking. So best way to find the books on Amazon, you can get it in audible, you can get it in Kindle, can get it in paperback. I narrated the audible myself.
00:31:46
Speaker
The best way to find me also is on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. I love connecting with people. The work I'm doing now for staffing companies, you can learn it's mainly for staffing, is but it's also for other companies as well. My website is kcjcox.com.
00:31:58
Speaker
The work I do is around more mindset, sales, um sales, leadership, performance, best habits, best practices that I've seen have a lot of success over time. If you're a dad or a mom, but you want to check out my podcast, The Quarterback Dadcast, episodes come out every Thursday morning on wherever you find your podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio. My goal is to get dads to really slow down to realize that what we do matters and realizing that the more we can be humble, vulnerable, and curious as dads, it's going to help create more humble, vulnerable, curious kids and better cultures, or whether it's in the workplace or the home. So that's me.
00:32:31
Speaker
I encourage people to reach out. I love connecting with other people and I love actually opening other doors for people. Yeah. and i highly recommend anybody in staffing, go grab his book. I've got a physical copy and an audible version.
00:32:42
Speaker
um listen I listened to it in the commute and you've serenaded me for hours in my car, reading your book to me. And if you'd like to learn more about Simple VMS and how you can partner with us to win relationships with your clients and prospects, visit us at SimpleVMS.com or connect with us on LinkedIn.
00:32:57
Speaker
Thanks everybody for hanging out with us today. This is Staffing Made Simple. Until next time, go build some real relationships and keep it simple. This has been an episode of Staffing Made Simple, powered by Simple VMS, the vendor-friendly VMS.