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Episode 136: Mitchell Extension Signed
74 Plays11 months ago
Alex and Corey discuss Donovan Mitchell's contract extension and the lack of moves by the Cav's front office so far in free agency. Also looking forward to watching the Cav's newest rookie Jaylon Tyson playing in the NBA Summer League.
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Transcript
Alex's Skin Cancer Experience
00:00:15
Speaker
Hey, Cavs fans. Welcome to another episode of the Cavs Pick and Roll Podcast. I'm Alex, and I'm here with Corey. How you doing tonight, Corey? I am doing great. How are you? I'm doing all right. ah Could be a little better. I had surgery on my arm. Got 16 stitches. So what did you do to get just a little little sore. kind um You know what it's skin cancer. I had another melanoma. It's my second time having surgery to have a spot removed. ah Yeah. it's ah It's no fun, no fun at all, so everybody wear sunscreen. Pretty much. pretty much too It's too late for me, but. It's too late, yeah.
Hypothetical Wealth Discussions
00:00:58
Speaker
Well, let me ask you a question, Alex. What would you do if you had $150 million? dollars What would you do?
00:01:06
Speaker
150 million. Yeah, but you go get a tan so you don't have to worry about, you know, like the sunscreen as much because you are kind of light It have to be a spray tan. That's all right I'd be looking pretty orange probably 150 million. I mean the government's gonna take their 40 40 percent, right? So you're already down to like 90 million or so Oh, man, I don't know. I don't know. You know, the funny thing is I was just reading an article about this. um I guess there's some sort of Michael Jordan tax that some of the states do for when ah players are making so many millions of dollars.
00:01:47
Speaker
And you know how they travel from state to state to state ah playing their games. Well, some of these states decided, hey, if you're going to be working in our state and making that amount of money, then you got to pay this tax. So a lot of these states like tax players, tons of money, even if they only play a few games. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Huh. Never knew about that. Yeah. That's first I've heard of that. Yeah.
NBA Contracts and Player Options
00:02:14
Speaker
But 150 million. You and I will never see that in our lives, but no you know who did, you know, who's going to see it and more and plenty more.
00:02:24
Speaker
Donavan Mitchell. Freaking A. ah might I know that this happened about a week or so ago now. I think Alex, you were up in Michigan again when kind of a lot of this stuff were happening. So um this was our first chance to kind of record and really just talk about the Donovan Mitchell extension finally happening and is official. three years, 150 million. And when you first saw that, Alex, did you have any initial reactions outside of just finally? Like, what'd you think about the the the dollars and the years and all that stuff?
00:03:03
Speaker
Um, I thought it was a good deal to answer your question real quick I'd probably buy a beach house with a lot of shade and then bank the rest of the money But uh, you wouldn't buy you wouldn't buy like a half a percent Of cleveland cavalier like ownership like you could be a minority owner. I could totally see you doing that I don't you know i had like dreams of owning and you know I had thought about a lot about owning an NBA team, right? like If I was a billionaire, yeah would I want to buy an and NBA team as much as I love the and NBA? Okay, side question. Side question then, real quick. yeah It can't be the Cavs. Pick any other team. Let's just pretend you had a billion dollars and you can invest and be an owner and any other team outside of the Cavaliers. Who would you do? Well, the Celtics are up for sale right now.
00:03:47
Speaker
that's true ah screw the celtics so i'd buy a portion of the celtics ah front runner and uh bandwagon that team is that team is uh they're so far over the cap they signed tatum do an insane deal they signed oh my goodness derek white i give a bunch of money oh yeah like that team is going to be over the cap for years to come and uh Boy, that whoever buys that team, they're in for it, man. yeah They're in for it. like I don't know. I don't know.
00:04:22
Speaker
but yeah yeah i mean i like Buying an NBA team, yeah that's kind of like the dream. But the more I think about it, the more I'm like, do I want to have to deal with all the BS that comes along with it? like Even Mark Cuban has sold the Mavericks. yeah he doesn't he's He's out the game. He was a very active, owner like he was there like it seemed like he was there every game he was involved in all the decisions and sure even he's out now well you can always own a team an NBA 2k alex you could do franchise mode you could play gm mode all that stuff i guess but
00:04:55
Speaker
Going back to Donovan Mitchell, three years, 150 million. Oh, and by the way, the third year is a player option. So this does unfortunately mean we could be doing this all over again in two years, meaning, hey, we know we're going into the third
Mitchell's Impact on Cavs' Strategy
00:05:12
Speaker
year. We know that Mitchell can opt out. So it's time as a Cavs fan to just freak out again. That's any fan base though. But hey, he's here for a couple of years, at least three years, 150 million. I like the deal as well. um He could have three years at least, Corey, because he still had one more guaranteed year on the past contract. yes so Yes, exactly. Three more years guaranteed, unless he asked for a trade, and then the player option. Right.
00:05:40
Speaker
Right. And, you know, so that equals what, all right roughly, I don't know what, what the stack was year over year, but we're talking roughly 50 million a year, which is insane. But the contracts in today's MBA is insane in general. And you mentioned Jason Tatum. I think he just got what, a $380 million dollars deal somewhere around there. And Mitchell could have taken a longer deal. I think he could have done four years. But the reason why he took the three year deal is because then he hits the 10 year mark in the NBA and he will then qualify for a Jason Tatum like contract. So I don't mind it because it makes sense from a business perspective from Donovan's point of view and from the Cavs were not locked up in like some five year, $400 million dollars contract.
00:06:33
Speaker
to where if two years from now we like still haven't gotten over that hump, and Donovan's turning 30 at that point, and he's getting towards the end of that contract where yeah that player option becomes a factor, it it might be time to reset anyways at that point. You know what I mean? So I like the deal because I feel like it gives some flexibility to the Cavs. They're not locked in long-term 400 million type of contract. Donovan should be happy. He's getting paid and he knows his next contract. He's really going to get paid and ultimately as a fan We know that we're going to have calves competitive basketball for the next several years guaranteed Because when you have a player of Donovan Mitchell's caliber on your team, it's it's not just playoff appearances It's it's beyond that so the expectations the bar will always be high and we should see quality basketball
00:07:25
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. Donovan is a transcendent player. He's one of those once-in-a-lifetime players. We are so lucky to have him on this team. I haven't seen a player play like him on the Cavs since LeBron. He's almost like mini LeBron. yeah um Yeah, 50 million a year. it's It's a deal. It's a deal for us. It's a good deal for him. It works out. We got at least three years of Prime, Donovan Mitchell. um The Cavs are going to make competitive, like you said, for at least the next three years as long as he's on the roster alone.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think it's great. It's fantastic. And we got, you know, the whole core four coming back this season with Jared Allen, Darius Garland, Mobley, all these guys still very young but peaking, starting, they should be peaking and being in their prime. You know during these next few years, so yeah, it's really exciting Yeah, it is and I want to get back to the core for in a second I want to ask you one more question on Mitchell before we move on Going back to the trade that the Cavs made with the Utah Jazz to acquire Donovan Mitchell Which required us giving up a whole bunch of draft picks Colin Sexton?
00:08:43
Speaker
you know, marketing, Abaji, you know, we traded away some, some pieces. And when that trade happened, there was a lot of like, just kind of shock. And even cap fans um were, you know, there's still, there's still a pocket of them today that feel like it wasn't worth. doing all that and if Mitchell wouldn't have extended and we somehow were forced to now trade him or he left us or whatever, then yes, I would say the Cavs lost that trade. But now that we know he's gonna be here for at least a few more years, I said it to you to you to you this way in work a couple days ago or last week or whatever after this happened. I'm gonna say it the same way here for the listeners. if you Imagine the trade hadn't happened yet.
00:09:29
Speaker
If somebody was to tell you that, hey, you had to trade Colin Sexton and these other pieces, some draft picks for the next couple of years for a chance to have a four to five year window with Donovan Mitchell on your team, would you take that? Most of us would have taken it. And guess what? We're going to get that three, four, five year window with Donovan Mitchell due to this extension. And Utah is already ready to move on from the pieces that they got. I'm pretty sure they already moved on from Abaji. And I hear rumors of of sex and being available and and marketing as well because he's due for a big payday.
00:10:05
Speaker
So really the only assets they'll still have is is the draft capital they got from us. So I feel like this validates the trade and that's that's always good too because it would have been mud on our face if he would have moved on from us. It would have been kind of ah an and another embarrassing moment to add to Cleveland's sport history if this didn't happen, right? Sure. Sure. I
Darius Garland Trade Rumors
00:10:26
Speaker
agree with you. ah You know, hindsight, You know, I'm just thinking back to when that trade happened and I was, what was that? ah My series has gone off. um Yeah, thinking back to that that trade, I was like not super thrilled about it because
00:10:48
Speaker
We gave up our future, right? I can't remember how many first round picks we sent the jazz was at five. I don't even know. It was it was at least three, but it was, it might've been more. Yeah. It was a lot. It was, it was a lot. It was like the next 10 years. I looked before we started recording, because we're going to talk about the draft and everything and and the calf selection. We don't actually own our own next first round pick until 2030. as it stands right now. At some point, the cows will make a trade and they'll they'll get some, you know, at some point they'll make a trade to where they net a first rounder here or there. It's not like we won't have another one until 2030, but as of right now, they don't own any more first round picks. The pick they just made in the NBA draft this year is the last one that we own until 2030 if the cows were to do nothing else, which is, yeah, that's scary, man. Yeah. I mean, when we made that trade, we were weight we wagered our entire future
00:11:41
Speaker
ah to bring Don and Mitchell in, we got rid of Laurie Markin in, we got rid of ah Colin Sexton, Abaji, our pick that that year that we had high expectations for. i you know i you know We didn't know if we were going to have Donovan Mitchell for two years, you know and we were giving up all that. It it really worked out that that he signed this extension for us, like you said. yeah it's ah It could have been embarrassing. It could have been very embarrassing. And we could have been in a really bad spot, not having any first round picks. No leverage. No leverage, because everybody knows he wants to leave, or he's not going to extend. or
00:12:24
Speaker
you know whatever so all that doubt goes out the window all the he's going to new york bullshit that we've heard since the day we acquired him out the window you know all that stuff and it was funny because cleveland fans are you know they always seize the opportunity and when that extension Officially became you know came out and started to get out on social media you know cast fans let let the national media hear it and the one one of the ones that i saw that was you know circulated the most is i forgot about this there's a video of kendrick perkins like the day the cows got eliminated from the playoffs.
00:13:03
Speaker
of him, Perkins saying Donovan Mitchell, 110% has played his final game in a Cleveland Cavaliers, you know, episode or out in that episode of Jersey. And so everybody was was, you know, retweeting that video and saying, you know, but all sorts of troll comments. And Cleveland had fun that day and there was a lot of folks saying too that like, hey, this is a big deal because in Cleveland, it's not very often someone at this caliber chooses to be here. Like besides LeBron coming back after he left, is there a bigger player in Cavs franchise history that decided to come here in their prime
00:13:46
Speaker
and extend into their prime years shack coming back that doesn't count he's passed his prime he did it he was a one and done like we've had a lot of those type of scenarios this is a player in his prime uh top 15 top 20 player in the league that decided yes i want to be here i want to stay here Yeah, it's a big deal. Yeah, I mean, it's huge. When you're one of these these small market teams in the north with the cold weather, ah you know, the Cavs, the Pistons, the Bucks, it's difficult to get a good quality player, especially a superstar or a transcendent player like like Donovan Mitchell or
00:14:26
Speaker
Yannis, you know, when when one of those players ends up on one of those, these small market teams, it's pretty incredible, especially when you can hold on to them. Yeah, yeah. And the and the Bucks drafted Yannis. It's not like Yannis chose to go there. So sure, the Cavs traded for Mitchell, but Mitchell decided to stay here just as Yannis, you know, he he resigned a contract to and he could have moved on as well. But you think Mitchell wanted to stay in Cleveland? You think he likes it here? Well, you know what? That day, something else interesting came out too, which was kind of cool to see. But the Instagram story that he dropped where he's just driving around in his car and he's just, he's just like, uh, you know, I.
00:15:04
Speaker
And saying all along, I'm happy here. Like I had a call with Woge and told him I was happy here. There was reports that came out after the season ended for the Cavs from Woge that Mitchell says he's happy in Cleveland. Like he's like, I don't know. Basically, it was kind of cool because you don't hear that very often because like a lot of people could just say, well, of course he's going to stay. He's getting paid. But then he'll just request a trade in a year. And sure, that could still happen. But not a lot of players come out after something like that and say, like yeah, i do like this wasn't a difficult decision. like I'm happy here. I want to be here. this This isn't something I had to really think about very much. So that's kind of cool, too. Yeah, that's funny. I mean, even in our last episode, I was like, man, if you follow Donovan Mitchell on social media at all, you'd know that all the signs he wants to be here. that Yeah.
00:15:53
Speaker
He's always taken a picture wearing some caps at her Cleveland t-shirt or like every like everything like him working out he's wearing you know where you have gear where you have to worry is when your favorite athlete on your team changes their profile picture in a scenario like this and follows the team well it doesn't follow the team but like it's like just a headshot. Or it's just a random, like, cut off. It's no longer like that jersey for the team they've been playing for. That was their profile picture for the last nine months during the season. All of a sudden, it's just, you know, LeBron with a headshot and, you know, and ah boom, I'm leaving for a second time to go to L.A. You know, you're right. He he he was rocking cow's gear all all off season so far. So.
00:16:41
Speaker
Like you said, man, we're lucky to have Mitchell here. I know there's some people that don't think that, but man, we're going to have competitive basketball here for the next couple of years with his extension. and And that's always a great thing. You mentioned the core four, Alex. um This was another kind of hot topic. You know, there was a lot of spicy rumors that came out at the end of the season. We talked about that a little bit last episode and kind of like the Mitchell going to New York rumors and all that like it just kind of fizzled because.
00:17:13
Speaker
You said right before we started recording there was a report that came out about you know garland's agents saying if mitchell extends He's going to force a trade. Well guess what just happened within the last couple of days after mitchell extended garland came there was reports that came out that said garland was pissed when he found out that those reports came out that he would request a trade so basically bs i mean I mean, that's that's the way that I feel about
Cavs' Core Four Potential
00:17:39
Speaker
it, right? I feel that it's ah that it's a load of bull. Even that initial report was just from somebody's social media account. and never it didn't like there wasn't any It was somebody saying clutch sports is saying this. There was never a valid source to begin with. So it seemed like BS right off the bat. I see a lot of people saying now that why did Garland wait so long
00:18:05
Speaker
to refute this, ah you know, is it just damage control? Sure. But yeah I mean, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. You could you could think that way. You could play that angle. But in my opinion, it was never there was never anything there to begin with. Yeah. Garland's already gotten paid. He's already gotten paid. So you can't use that angle. And sure, he had he had an off year. He didn't play great last year. um you know And we talked about it. And there is some some somewhat of a conversation there of does it make sense long term for Garland and Mitchell to play together? Can they coexist? I don't know if they can or not.
00:18:45
Speaker
It certainly didn't work out the greatest this year, but a lot of times, too, was how many times were the team healthy enough for them to play together? You know, that's the core four, not just Mitchell and and and Garland, but. You know the other thing that kind of came out is it was real hot and at the very beginning of like you know there's a lot of teams interested in garland and all this stuff. And then you started to see reports of well the calves are telling teams that they're not ready to move on from garland. And then you see reports from like the wages and the wind horse and all that stuff of like.
00:19:21
Speaker
There's not really a great trade. He doesn't have a high trade value right now because he did have an off year because his salary is so big and the Cavs basically would have a hard time getting equal value back. It's the Kevin Love scenario all over again to where you were never going to get equal value for Kevin Love. And right now with Garland coming off of an off year plus having the large contract, you're not going to get great returns if you trade garland right now and i know that pisses off a lot of cast fans but it makes sense to me right now i think if you go into the season with the core four fine okay i would love to see them shake it up a little bit too but you can always play a couple months into the season and you have you have the trade deadline and if you start to get some some spicy offers or you see it's still just not working out between the two of them or whoever
00:20:15
Speaker
yeah Hopefully his value is higher then because he's playing basketball. Right now he's not playing basketball and just came off of a bad playoff run. You're not gonna get great value for him in the trade market right now. Yeah, I mean I never liked the idea of trading him to begin with and that's because it would leave a huge hole on the roster. So what are you gonna do? You're gonna trade our starting point guard for everybody wants some sort of wing player, some sort of ah small forward to fill that hole, but you're just creating a hole at point guard. Even if you shift Mitchell down to point guard, okay, no now you got a hole at shooting guard, you got a hole at small forward.
00:20:56
Speaker
Mitchell's not a true point guard. you know and He is. they can He can run point, yeah but it's like it's not- He would get cooked. He would get cooked in today's- Yeah, you don't want him, he's already a ball dominant player. You don't want him bringing the ball down the court all the time for your team. um so so i mean If you trade Garland, You gotta get a ah quality point guard back because we don't have. Anyone even remotely that could replace him on the team so who's giving you a point guard of equal or better value of garland back. Who most likely be older than garland by the way right because garland still what.
00:21:38
Speaker
twenty two I mean, what okay, so you get you get some veteran, you get somebody back closer to Mitchell's age, 25, 26, 27, somewhere around there. So he's a few years older. I can't think of another point guard that's out there right now that is as good as Garland or better, and that is on a team that would be willing to part ways with them. and is also gonna give you that wing that you want so much. right yeah yeah so It's just not gonna happen. It's tough. I think it was Windy who said Jared Allen actually has a higher trade value right now than Garland because
00:22:18
Speaker
Allen's on a more friendly salary. I mean, he's making $20 million a year versus whatever Garland's getting. And and you know we are there's there's plenty of you know people that have their beef with Jared Allen right now because of the whole playoff thing, which is fine and dandy. But we also all know what Jared Allen is capable of. We all know that we are getting a steal. out of what you know what the cows are paying him right now versus what his production value is. So it makes sense that his trade value will be higher. And then the argument is there, well you get rid of Alan, you move mobily over to the five and then you no longer have the two bigs clogging up the paint and you go out and you find a stretch four. and
00:22:57
Speaker
I understand that argument, too. But, you know, as time is going on, not that I'm talking myself into it, but if the Cavs just aren't receiving the offers that they want, and if they decide to move forward with the core four, that's most likely what's happening, is they're just not receiving the offers that they feel are going to really improve over what Jared Allen gives you today. or you're not going to get equal value back for Garland. And don't forget, Akison, the new coach, you know, had Jared Allen as a former player. And maybe he's a big, you know, maybe he's like, no, I don't want to move Jared Allen because I know what he's capable of. I want him here, you know? So it is what it is, man. It's tough because a lot of teams did get better in the East, Alex. A lot of movement happened over the last couple of weeks with free agency.
00:23:44
Speaker
yeah Yeah, there has been. um you know Atkinson had ah Jared Allen and Caris Lavert. I know there's a lot of people that are hot on using Caris Lavert as a trade package also, but you know I just don't know. I just don't really see it happening. Again, I don't i don't know. i mean It's it's tough. it that the The toughest thing about this team, I feel, is like we still haven't truly found out what they're capable of because it's just been year over year of injuries kind of plaguing the season. You know, I know you reference this a couple of times on the podcast. You'll say, you know, Cavs fans, you know, they that want to move all these players. they they They need they always forget about that run they had.
00:24:34
Speaker
right in january february where where they won like seventeen out of nineteen games or whatever the heck it was but the crazy thing was that was without darius garland and evan mobley who are both out we we've never gotten to see a long stretch of basketball with this team healthy and intact to see what are they truly capable of That's the big mystery question. And I also think that's why they might go into next season with the core four again, because it is kind of scary what this team could be if everybody was healthy. We just haven't gotten to see it yet. Yeah, that's the thing. They haven't been healthy. They're all still extremely young. Yes. Like these guys haven't even hit their primes yet. So, ah you know, there's still a lot of potential there. There's still a lot of growth to be had.
00:25:21
Speaker
Um, yeah, we came up short this past season, but the past several seasons we've seen improvement season over season. There's no reason to think that they can't improve again this upcoming season. Um, new coach, you know, it's, it's a lot easier to replace a coach than it is to shake up a roster. So I think we're doing what we can do here and still maintain what we have and and still expect improvement. I think the sky's the limit for this team. And we really showed that, Hey, you know, this past season, the only team we lost to was the team that won it all, the champs.
00:25:57
Speaker
So, you know, if we're healthy, we got a new coach that, that maybe is a little more offensive minded that can help develop some of these players a little farther along. Hey, you know, we could, we could be right there in the mix in the dance. Yeah, I think it comes down to Garland having a bounce back year and Evan Mobley taking that leap next year. I think it's very, the success of this Cavs team, the roster as it is today, and ultimately next season we'll heavily bank on those two things in my opinion, especially, and this is what it feels like, you're going to run it back basically.
00:26:31
Speaker
Because you're kinda, you don't have a lot of wiggle room. You don't have salary to do anything in free agency. You have a couple trade pieces, but an $18 million dollars salary or whatever Lavert is making these days isn't very much money salary-wise in the NBA anymore. You're not going to get a ton back. And sure, there's things about Lavert's game that can be frustrating, but at the same time, he's a bucket, right? And if we can actually be healthy and use him in the role of what he's meant to be sixth man or second person to come off that bench, that Jamal Crawford score buckets kind of role, he'd he'd be perfect at that.
00:27:12
Speaker
The problem is is when he has to sit and play starting minutes for you know stretches of time because we have two two, three players out of the rotation, and then it just doesn't work anymore. Same problem we had when Chetty when chetty was here. Chetty worked for that one year when they finally moved him to the bench, you know when he didn't work, when he was playing in a role that he shouldn't have been playing along you know in all ah all along, which is basically trying to put him in as starting small forward post LeBron years. It was never going to work. So again, there's an argument for running it back. I also understand the fan base that doesn't accept that when they see New York getting McKell Bridges. um They see Philadelphia signing Paul George.
Eastern Conference Changes
00:27:56
Speaker
They see her the Orlando Magic bringing in KCP from the Denver Nuggets. Alex, the East is not getting any easier. And I could see how that has some Cavs fans nervous because the Cavs don't have a great track record of staying healthy.
00:28:12
Speaker
What's your thoughts on those other teams are making any of those any of those scary? I think Paul George is out of his mind. I think he's I don't want to say he's washed, but I want to say he's on the decline Well sure he's in the fact that he got all upset about not getting the same money that Kawhi Leonard was offered yeah by the the Clippers, you know He should have known he should have known he wasn't gonna get that much I don't know why he got so upset about that. But the interview that I saw he was he was really pissed and So he took the next spec's best offer he could get that wasn't with the six the Clippers Sure, and so he's going to the Sixers good for him
00:28:56
Speaker
I don't think it makes them that much better, honestly. i Yeah, I mean, on paper, it sounds like great. we'd We'd be over the moon if we somehow got Paul George added to this team, right? Oh, absolutely. Makes sense. Because you would definitely need on our team. Yes, definitely. And he feels a need for Philly, too. But it's also like, I think he's what? He's 34, so he's getting up there. They just gave Maxi a huge contract, which he deserved. That's fine. And bead, you know, he's had some health issues here and there It's gonna come down to can and bead and Paul George stay healthy You know what I mean? that That's that's what they're heavily reliant on It kind of reminds me of when uh, was I think it was the Celtics that gave Gordon Hayward all that money Yeah, to come there. That's what it reminds me of
00:29:44
Speaker
Yeah, a little like he's like on the back end of his career. He doesn't got much left. He's like injury prone. This is his last. This is his last contract George. Like, yeah, this is his last run. This is his last run. And then like Orlando getting KCP, you know, we just faced Orlando in the playoffs. We know that they're a young upcoming team with some great pieces on it. Adding KCP to the team is a great addition for them. That should help elevate them. And I hate to admit this, but I think we all be lying to ourselves, though, if New York is not the team that kind of scares us the most because they were kind of already an up and coming team. And then for them to bring bridges into the mix um and for the most part, to be able to retain that team, they did lose Hartenstein to OKP.
00:30:32
Speaker
got that mas go paycheck out no casey i think you got millionaire something like that he's set for life now you know i'm I'm glad to see them lose heart and Stein there I think that's a big loss for them that was one of their bags that was super physical uh and gave our bigs a hard time so now that he's gone from new york like i'm feeling pretty good about mobley and uh allen being able to get in there and bang and get rebounds and and work in the post without heartenstein in there and that's that's trying to hurt somebody that's the argument for keeping a Jared Allen because it ain't going to be Evan Mobley
00:31:09
Speaker
pushing Joel Embiid around or Hartenstein around. He's just, he doesn't have that, but you know, physical mentality or physical build, at least not yet in his career. And that's what Jared Allen is used for. But ah New York is a team, you know, you know, that that's going to be reckoned with. Boston's not going anywhere. because they basically are running it back. And they they've been a team for years. You have Orlando on the rise. Philadelphia will be there if you know those players stay healthy. and And all of a sudden, it's like <unk>re you're already doing the math. It's like, oh, are the Cavs? The Cavs might be bumped out of that top four kind of conversation, right? At least on paper. And that that has a lot of fans kind of freaking out.
00:31:52
Speaker
And the fact that the calves aren't really making any transactions so far this year. So I understand that argument as well, but. They're kind of limited, man, unless they trade one of the core four, there's not a lot of things they can do right now. No, there's not. I think, uh, you know, they got the, they have the MLE available, but you know, if they, uh, decide, uh, to, to so to what, you know, depending what they offer, a Coro will bite into that. And if they use the MLE, then they'll be hard capped at the first apron. yeah Yeah, there's just not a lot they can do. And ah you know, everybody, ah you know, when you say run it back, a lot of people think that that's a negative thing. But in this case, I really, I really don't believe that. I really think this is a ah fantastic team that could win it all if they can stay healthy and just develop a little more.
00:32:45
Speaker
this could be their This could be their year. I see no no issue with running it back at all. Yeah. And I know, I know there's plenty of cash fans that would disagree with that. Oh yeah. the but the difference but but the difference But the difference is, is we didn't go through our playoff run these last two years, completely 100% healthy and just weren't good enough to compete and got eliminated that way. No, we got eliminated. Well, you know, this year at least but because, I mean, and Donovan Mitchell didn't even play the whole series. You know what I mean? Alan missed the entire series. like
00:33:20
Speaker
We had too many bodies out, you know and we're not the only team that suffered that. There's other teams that got bounced because of health issues as well, but that's the angle that I can at least say to myself for right now, if the Cavs don't do anything, it's like, okay, I have to remind myself, this is year three now of Mitchell, and we haven't seen a healthy Cavs team yet. What can this team do healthy? Let's see what happens the first couple months of the season. See where we're at the trade deadline. You don't go from there, basically. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm super happy they're bringing back the core for, you know, if they want to shuffle around, you know, the bench, I'm totally cool with that. Do whatever you think, you know, sure.
00:34:05
Speaker
I think, you know, whoever, ya for sure, just, you know, it's true. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't really care. i don You know, whatever you want to do with those guys, if you think you can improve the team, do it. But, you know, I think we got a really good set of starters here that are growing together and get better every season. So why shake it up? Yeah, we'll see what happens. I feel like there'll be some sort of small tweak, but it won't be anything earth shattering, I don't think. But the Cavs will have one new player add it to the roster this year. The question will be of whether or not that person will crack the rotation at all.
00:34:42
Speaker
but we were talking about draft picks, you know, a little while ago and the Cavs don't own another one until 2030, unless they make some sort of trade here. The Cavs had a draft pick this year, the 20th overall pick in the NBA draft. And they went with Jalen Tyson, a 6'6 guard. um Nice to see somebody over like 6'2". Yeah. And it's for this roster. He can play he can play the two and the three, so maybe he'll eventually fill that hole. Yeah, and and again, we say this every time. you know Alex and I, neither one of us really pay attention much to college basketball. So we're not gonna sit here and act like, you know oh, we've been scouting him and we know all about him. We only know- I watch i watched the YouTube highlights, Corey. Just like just like a lot of other folks. but and And highlights are just that, the highlights. um But he averaged 19 points, six and a half assists this past year, 13 points in his career ah during his college years.
00:35:39
Speaker
from what I saw, and you tell me if you see the same, this is the feedback I got from watching the highlight videos. He could dribble, he could shoot, and he can get to the rim. That's basically my takeaway. He could score in multiple ways, kind of like a Lavert a little bit, to be honest with you. um and he has and he has some size you know I mean so that was the takeaways for me and anytime you could see somebody that can score that's always gonna make somebody excited but how does that translate to the NBA and will he actually be a part of the rotation you know that that that's yet to be seen it does feel like we have a little bit of a log jam
00:36:17
Speaker
Now in that to guard like you send that guard line like you have Mitchell you have a curl you have lever you have strews then if you go smaller you have Meryl you
Summer League Excitement
00:36:30
Speaker
have Porter jr. You have garland tide Jerome is still on this freakin roster like You have a lot of guards right now, so it does feel like them selecting Tyson potentially makes it easier for a Levert or for an Akuro, the two players you've been hearing the most about in trade rumors, a little bit more like you know expendable at this point.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, yeah I mean, that's that's the truth, right? But yeah, we'll see. I mean, he's he's a rookie. He's still got a few years before, you know, to to figure it out. Maybe we'll play him at the threesome and see how it goes. Yeah, I mean, yeah I was saying a couple minutes ago how I feel like next season, you know, the success of the Cavs really falls on Garland having a bounce back and Mobley having that leap year. I feel like potentially, Tyson could be a factor as well, because anytime you can get a draft pick, that's not that one, two, three, that's just like supposed to be the guy for your team. Because remember, the Cavs are in a different situation. They're not
00:37:37
Speaker
they're They're a contending team, you know, so they picked outside of the lottery, right? But there's been plenty of examples over the years where a guy in a second round turns into, you know, Mark Price, who was taken in the second round, and we all know Mark Price turned into, right? So let's just pretend Tyson turns into something and he can contribute like this year and that elevates everything as well. If you kind of get something out of a player that you're not really supposed to get anything out of, which is a rookie being added to a playoff contending team. That would be huge for the Cavs if Tyson were able to come in
00:38:15
Speaker
And I like a Craig Porter Jr. Think of what Craig Porter Jr. did last year. Unfortunately, that fizzled off mainly because of JB's rotational issues, but also Porter Jr. had some health issues as well. Imagine if Tyson could do something like that, but throughout you know basically an entire season, that'd be huge for the Cavs. Yeah, yeah, totally agree. So we'll see. With that being said, we'll actually get to see Tyson and others play basketball starting this weekend as Summer League is upon us. It's not real-cast basketball, but at this point,
00:38:55
Speaker
you know it's like we're all feening for some cask basketball and summer league is always fun it goes by quick it's only four games alex but um ah any anybody you're looking forward to seeing play or maybe we should talk about what that roster is and then we can Go to that. Have you looked at all into how we can possibly watch these games ah legally or illegally, sir? What do you desire? I. um I'm saying yeah ESPN plus was going to have some of the games. Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, even with summer league, I don't know. I think blackout rules are still going to apply. It could be wrong. I'm looking at the schedule right now.
00:39:38
Speaker
There's four games, three of them say NBA TV, one says it's on ESPN. So if you have NBA TV, um my guess is there's still gonna be blackout rules. The yeah ESPN game, that might be one that you're not gonna have any issues as long as you have yeah ESPN. But outside of that, Alex, um I haven't seen anything else, unfortunately. All right. Yeah, I might not might not get to be able to see him then well, you just don't get to see them, you know legally legally exactly So let's talk about this roster real quick and then I ah cause i got it up along with the schedule Sure, um so Amani Bates obviously will be there. I know a lot of Cavs fans want to see him um You know get some minutes this year and and get basically an opportunity. We'll see if that happens can't forget about him and
00:40:28
Speaker
uh dj burns we didn't talk about that so the calves after the draft happened dj burns went undrafted and uh the calves decided to sign him for the summer league do you have any takes on dj burns i really like this pickup because uh he's a big he dominated he's a big big yeah he's a big big he uh he's like tractor trailer he's uh Oliver Miller style. yeah attracted trailer like du yeah He's He's a big dude. He likes to bang in the post. He plays that old school center position that kind of has been phased out of the NBA. He's like a big baby Davis.
00:41:09
Speaker
um Yeah, so i so I like this pickup. I think it's pretty cool that that he went undrafted and we were able to scoop him up for next to nothing. It's surprising he went undrafted. you know I guess it's not surprising because of his play style, but at the same time he dominated through March Madness through the tournament. and you know I'm excited to see how he does in the Summer League. Yeah. So am I. I'd be, I'm curious to see how he plays as well. You know, I don't, I don't, obviously I don't think he gets a roster spot or anything like that, but maybe he makes the charge, maybe he makes the charge roster and that'd be kind of cool. Or maybe he has a good enough showing where some other team decides to take a chance on them.
00:41:47
Speaker
um but That's kind of cool. There was there was a lot of Cavs fans that seemed excited about that pickup as well um when that happened. um Let's see who else we got. Pete Nance will be there. um He's been with the charge for a little while. Kirk Porter Jr., we'll get to see him running around out there. That'll be fun. Luke Travers is back. Good old Luke, man. He's fun to watch, Alex. Yeah. I really enjoyed, i man. I still remember that first summer league, man, where Cavs fans buzzing. Man, were they buzzing and then he looked so much like Larry Bird with that mullet and just his look. Yeah. Yeah. And he plays, I think it's the, I forget what league he's in. I won't pretend. I know. I think he's on Delhi's team. If I'm not mistaken.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah, he's he plays for Australia. He plays for Australia, right. And for a little while, I was looking into ways to watch that league. And I found like their YouTube channel where they at least post highlights. And I think they do live games that just, ah you know, at one o'clock during the middle of the day, you know, we're working. So it's just kind of hard to catch those games. But That's pretty cool. He plays with Delhi, but it'll be fun watching him as well. So there's obviously some other players on the team, but those are kind of the the standout ones are the ones that, you know, some cast fans should at least recognize. And then as far as the schedule, there's four games on the summer league schedule. First game is Friday, July 12th against Orlando, 4 p.m. Sunday, July 14th against Milwaukee, 3 30 p.m.
00:43:17
Speaker
Wednesday, July 17th, Golden State, 10 p.m. game. And then they wrap up against. Ronnie James, July 18th, 9 p.m. That should be fun. That's the s that's the ESPN game, by the way. All right. So kind of weird times, Alex, it is what it is, though. But ah yeah, have some of the basketballs here. And, you know, if you have a way to catch it somehow, it's always fun to do. Yeah, yeah, I always love watching those games. It's fun to see the ah the guys that are trying to trying to make a spot somewhere, trying to trying to get their their name out there and prove something. See how they do. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. So is there anything else?
Book Discussion on LeBron's Return
00:44:00
Speaker
I feel like we talked about a lot of different things. Is there anything else you could think of, Alex, you want to touch base on?
00:44:08
Speaker
Not that I can think of. I do. Okay, I'll ask you this then. Then we'll wrap it up. You read a book recently, didn't you? Cav's book. Yeah. The Return of the King. was it's It's been a while now since I read it. ah You know, it's all about LeBron coming back to the Cavs. You know, is his whole I'm coming home thing. And then, you know, bringing in Kevin Love and pairing LeBron with a very young Kyrie.
00:44:43
Speaker
yeah And David Blatt, who they brought you know from Europe to the Cavs to to help develop a really young team. And instead, they got a ah veteran championship team built that offseason. It's a very, very good, interesting book. It's written by Windy. And somebody co-wrote it with him. I should know that guy's name. I can't remember. ah And yeah, yeah it's ah it's an excellent read. There's a lot a whole lot of things that I had forgotten about that time period that came flooding back reading that book.
00:45:21
Speaker
It was really good. Highly recommend it. It's crazy how long it's been already since all that went down. And yeah, totally. There's things like just think like another like 15, 20 years from now, going back, reading a book like that or reliving how that all came to be and and just that Cavs championship and You know, we they'll be those documentaries LeBron documentary when he retires and you know all that will be part of it um That's the great thing about a book like that is because you get to go down memory and lane and ultimately up until this point in Cavalier's franchise history and in our lives That's the best moment that there's been and we got to live it and like you said in this and I'm just as guilty this lot of people are You forget a lot of how things kind of went down
00:46:10
Speaker
or you learn things of how things went down that wasn't really public at the time you see you learned some tidbits too as Well, and you just think man. I wish we can go back to that time. You know what I mean? So it's just it's always fun grabbing books like that and I know you you were you were really into it you were telling me about it as you're reading it and I was like we got to talk about it on the pod and just hadn't had an opportunity to bring it up, so I figured we we bring it up and yeah it's one of those books you can easily find out there. ah It's really detailed about that time period like it goes into everything like you know how how we drafted Andrew Wiggins and yeah how people felt about that and the trade and bringing in Kevin Love and even about David Blatt you know it talks about you know her
00:46:58
Speaker
there's There's plenty of interviews with LeBron, right? There's there's a whole lot of ah what how LeBron was feeling and the things that LeBron was saying and how he was getting along with Coach Blatt and how he was getting along with Tai Liu and yeah things that were being said in the huddles and in the locker room. and you know it It talks about you know the Cavs 20 games into the season and they were playing terribly. and LeBron, you know, from his point of view, was thinking, I knew it was going to be a struggle. I knew I was going to have to come here and have patience and have to break, you know, a lot of um just a lot of bad things that the Cavs had been doing um and change it and just change, you know, change the culture. And he knew that it would take
00:47:50
Speaker
you know, possibly a full season or longer for that to happen. So it's it's just it's just really interesting. Yeah, yeah, definitely. and I'm glad we got to talk about it. CAS fans, i mean it's going to get to the dog days of summer here right at some point. so Looking for a book to read, a CAS book to read and want to relive kind of that time frame. It's an easy book to find you know and and a good read. I own it as well. and When Alex was talking about it it, it brought back the memories to me too when I read it. so
00:48:23
Speaker
ah Definitely go check it out. Probably could find it Amazon probably at a library somewhere eBay for a couple bucks something like that and Hey, there's not too many calves books that have been written in franchise history so Most of them are from that era. you There's actually a lot of calves books I was like surprised to see like just how many books like Terry Pluto is written about the calves history How many but how many have you found better prior to LeBron? That's right. Yeah, I have I have a couple I have two or three of them, but it's hard to find a lot. There's Miracle to Richfield books. Yeah, there is, there is. There's a couple out there, but there's not a ton, so. Yeah, yeah. So you read Return of the King? Yep. Was it a long time ago that you read it? It was a while ago because I got it as a gift a couple years ago now.
00:49:11
Speaker
And I read it like right away. So yeah, but it was fun reliving all that and just just man reliving that time I mean, yes, it's it truly is fascinating Fascinating just to hear like just everything that went on behind the scenes that those years You know that year that they they lost to the Warriors and then everything, you know, it goes into everything it's crazy just ah you know about Draymond Green and the Warriors and Steph and clay and the whole running it back and they end up adding Durant and it's just... I'm looking forward to the video documentary 10 years from now, 20 years from now about that time period and that team, you know, and they bring back Richard Jefferson and Channing Froude. Yeah. Like, I'm waiting for that. That's gonna be awesome. There's a lot of Jefferson and Channing in it.
00:50:02
Speaker
ah Is it Channing or is it Jefferson? I can't remember if somebody wrote the forward of the book. so like jeff first I think it was Jefferson. Yeah, I think it was Jefferson like the first, you know, six, seven pages or and forward written by Jefferson about the championship parade and little tidbits about that of things that you probably wouldn't know that are really cool. So it's one of the other fascinating things I thought was the whole coaching thing, you know, with David Blatt and his relationship with LeBron and the rest of the players. And they talk about the interviews that he would give and, uh, you know, anytime that they complimented him or the players complimented him, you know, like never accepted a compliment. You know, he was always like.
00:50:46
Speaker
Oh, I've been a championship coach in Europe for 20 years. This isn't new to me. They congratulated him winning his first NBA game and he was very non... Not a big deal. He didn't like it. He blew it off and he like... I don't know. He just didn't get along very well with... Different culture, different culture. That's why it didn't work out ultimately. um But that's crazy. That's what I mean. 20 years from now, there'll be young Cavs fans like, what? The Cavs hired a guy from Europe to coach the team. What? John Beeline? What? How long was he here? They did what? You know what I mean? Like, this is going to be crazy to all like relive again in the future. And this book does a good job of capturing that. And there's other books out there, especially around that timeframe and about the championship and
00:51:35
Speaker
So on and so forth. about David Griffin. We'll see. We'll see how many books. We'll see how many books get written future state. um That'll be the interesting to see, you know, when's the next CAS book actually written? It's got to be a reason. It's got to
Episode Conclusion
00:51:49
Speaker
be a reason. I didn't even think they were going to get LeBron. They didn't think LeBron was going to come back. And David Griffin flew out to talk to him. And even after that, he didn't think that LeBron was coming back. Yeah. Everything came together very last minute. Yeah, it's crazy. It's cool. All right. Well, there it is. Let's wrap this episode up, Alex. Want to thank you CAS fans as always for tuning in and listening and Alex, let them know where they can follow us and connect with us. Follow us on Twitter, X at CAS pick and roll, shoot us an email.
00:52:22
Speaker
Kav's pick and roll at gmail dot.com. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr, or watch this episode on YouTube. We hope you're listening. Click like, subscribe, leave a rating or a review. We'd appreciate it. All right, Kav's fans, there it is. We'll talk to you again soon. Peace out, Kav's fans.