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Episode 154: Historic Season Ends in Disappointment image

Episode 154: Historic Season Ends in Disappointment

Cavs Pick and Roll Podcast
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Alex and Corey react to the Cleveland Cavaliers being eliminated from the NBA Playoffs by the Indiana Pacers in the second round.  We breakdown the many events that contributed during the series leading to the Pacers coming out victorious.  Then we give our thoughts on possible outcomes over the summer and what types of moves if any the Cavs can make.

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Transcript

Cavs' Playoff Disappointment

00:00:15
Speaker
Hey, Cavs fans, welcome to the Cavs Pick and Roll podcast, the podcast for diehard fans by diehard fans. I'm Alex and I'm here with Corey. Well, Corey, how are you feeling? Well, it's it's funny because it's been about 24 hours as we start to record this episode.
00:00:31
Speaker
It's been about 24 hours before the Cavs season came to a disappointing ending, which we're going to get into here, obviously. um but But the first question I have for you, Alex, if you had to sum up this playoff run in one single word, what would you?
00:00:50
Speaker
Profanities are allowed. Come on, drop something. I don't think I can put it into one word, man. There's a lot of emotions here. Disappointment. Shocked.
00:01:02
Speaker
ah Choke. Choke. Yeah. I mean, and mental mistakes. If you're saying choking is mental mistakes, there was a hell of a lot of those. so Yeah. I mean, game two was mental mistake after mental mistake in that final 47 seconds.

Missed Opportunities and Mental Mistakes

00:01:21
Speaker
What's crazy is, as you know, we haven't had an episode since the Heat series, just the logistics of schedules and the games played. and then we got to a point where it's like, we might as well just wait and see what happens. Yeah. I mean, the funny thing about that is, like yeah, i wasn't I wasn't around. I was actually in Texas for my cousin's wedding, which was awesome.
00:01:43
Speaker
Yeah. Texas wedding. You know, everybody's wearing Western attire. had to buy cowboy boots and a cowboy hat and ah a buckle. alex Alex. I was the only city slicker there. Everybody else was an actual cowboy. Alex randomly sends me a message at our work like an IM. He's like, um random question. But by any chance, do you know where I can buy some cowboy boots?
00:02:09
Speaker
um I'm working. I'm like, dude, what are you coming at me? This stuff for get out of here. I said, i I have no idea. I went to Amazon, sent him a link. But yeah, Alex, yeah Alex was out of town.
00:02:22
Speaker
ah The first two games, I think. so i So yeah, that's what I was getting to. I missed the the first two games, right? yeah But I was like so excited for these games that I still like, typically i won't I'll stay completely away from it and I'll watch the game later. So I don't know anything about it.
00:02:37
Speaker
But I was checking the scores constantly and I knew that we lost. And even though I knew that we lost, I went back and watched the games later that night just to see how the hell this happened. Right.
00:02:48
Speaker
And I figured if they were going to steal a game, it was going to be the first game. Like, I figured they might catch us sleeping, overconfident.
00:02:59
Speaker
um So I figured if they're going to steal a game, it was going be that game one. So game two was really the the backbreaker for me. yeah Like, okay, this series is not going...
00:03:12
Speaker
The way we want it to go. Game two was the heartbreaker and reality set in fairly quickly after that. Right. um And I'm watching this series and it felt like watching the Knicks series.
00:03:28
Speaker
from a couple years ago, all over again. Meaning you're playing against a more physical team, a more mentally strong, in-your-head team, a team that came down from multiple large deficits in multiple games, both both game one and two.
00:03:49
Speaker
you know The Cavs are up.
00:03:52
Speaker
18, 20 points. and And I get it in the NBA today, no lead is safe, but still you allowed them to build up that confidence very early in this series. And it, it felt a lot like the Knicks series where they, they were just in your head and the calves didn't know how to react.
00:04:09
Speaker
And then you had the injuries, you know, banged up injuries, Garland, Mobley and Hunter miss a game. Garland missed a couple games. So after I'm thinking like, well, this feels like the Knicks series.
00:04:22
Speaker
It also started to feel a little bit like last year against the Celtics where we're banged up. And when you have that combination together, it was a recipe for disaster, Alex.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, this was the third season or in a row where we got to the playoffs and just got hit by the injury bug to our starters. And I know that that's what we were saying all season. This is exactly what we said all season, that I think the Cavs are the team this season.
00:04:52
Speaker
They could go deep. They could win it all if they can stay healthy. They can't stay healthy. Yeah, but it also I feel like that's also was that a factor? Yes.
00:05:03
Speaker
Is that the reason? yeah i wouldn't say that. No, i would I would also say Indy was a tough matchup for us. Indy was a tough matchup, but but it wasn't. And I was saying this to you earlier today, Alex, when we were when we were chatting a while at work.
00:05:18
Speaker
It wasn't a scenario where, yeah, okay, Garland misses two games. I get it. But he came back and he played in in the series, right? It's not a Jason Tatum type injury, ah Steph Curry type injury, Damian Lillard type injury where you know one of your star players was was basically done.
00:05:41
Speaker
for for the series. You know what mean? and this team has a lot of weapons on it. right That's supposed to be one of the things we were able to tip our hat on, at least all regular season, was the depth of this team.

Player Performance: Ty Jerome's Struggles

00:05:54
Speaker
So Darius Garland going down obviously hurts you, you know um but there's still enough firepower on this team to where the Cavs should have been able to overcome.
00:06:05
Speaker
And there's just a lot of other things that unfortunately align for for a perfect storm. right Not only was it the injuries, you had shooting woes from this team in this whole series, which is very uncharacteristic from the three-point line.
00:06:21
Speaker
You had Ty Jerome plow probably play the worst basketball so far as a Cleveland Cavalier during this series. Jared Allen wasn't able to get going like he's capable of. um you know And Game 2 had five or six blunders in it alone.
00:06:39
Speaker
that it just kind of all came together and Indiana was able to able to cease that opportunity and and take advantage of that perfect storm. Yeah, I mean, I I mean, like I was saying, I think Indy was just a tough matchup for us. I know we were like the best offense in the NBA, but Indy was the fastest offense.
00:07:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The NBA and they push the ball constantly. They played faster than we did. They play a similar style of basketball though that we do.
00:07:11
Speaker
They shoot a lot of threes. They move the ball around. They're deep. So it's a very similar team to does us, but they play faster. So we struggled with that. And then you brought up Ty Jerome and I kind of want to touch on that quite a bit because sure Ty Jerome was just firepower for us all season.
00:07:29
Speaker
He would come in with that second a team and you know, he was, he was, he was just a torch. He would light teams up. You know, was calling them Ty sanity games because he would just come in and just cook the other team with that second unit.
00:07:44
Speaker
And then in this series, they really scouted him, man, because you know, whenever Ty Jerome checked in and he would, play point and he would be bringing the ball up the court. They were jamming him constantly.
00:07:57
Speaker
They were for full court pressing him. He was lucky to get the ball, you know, across midway within the eight seconds. Yeah, it was. It was a struggle. They were really they really took Ty Jerome out of the game.
00:08:11
Speaker
And he just couldn't get to his spots. He was still taking a lot of shots, just not making shots. Right. Even his floater, like he was really good with that euro step going down the lane all season.
00:08:23
Speaker
It just wasn't dropping for him. No, it wasn't. And that's that's a huge blow, right? Because, again, like you said, he's been your firepower, your secret weapon. you know ah and i kept waiting for him, this this series, to have that 25-point game that is the difference maker. And it just and never happened. And then in the very last game, Atkinson you know doesn't play him until...
00:08:47
Speaker
you know, two and a half quarters into the game. And he comes into that game and, and gives you a little bit of firepower at home, puts up 10 points within a couple minutes. But by that point, you know, it was too late.
00:08:58
Speaker
And i do wish that he, he would have played him that game, that whole game. Cause I felt like if this is, if there's one game where he can get, you know, going again, it's, it's most likely probably going to be at home.
00:09:11
Speaker
right so I thought it was a bad decision to to bench him. At that point in the series, you didn't you didn't make any other adjustments. You got to have a point guard out there running the offense in the second unit when Garland's down.
00:09:22
Speaker
um We've talked many times, or I've expressed many times, I hate the point guard Mitchell offense. It just doesn't work. It doesn't flow. So I wish you would have played them. um But

Impact of Injuries and Shooting Woes

00:09:34
Speaker
there's just so many things that, you know, now now that now that it's starting to sink in and you reflect in hindsight, there's so many things that were wrong in this series.
00:09:44
Speaker
And it's like, man, if only we could have like not done three of them. yeah if If they just would have grabbed one of those rebounds in game two, they secure that game.
00:09:55
Speaker
Or inbound it. or inbound it, right? six If Ty Jerome had only had one good game, that could have been a difference maker, right? um You know, if the Cavs weren't shooting so horribly from three-point this whole series, you know, the series would probably be different.
00:10:13
Speaker
It's just, it's hard to go back and look and and just, it's amazing how many things ended up going in Indy's favor as as a result. Yeah, Ty Jerome went one for eight in game three and then Was it one for 14? One for 14, game two. Yeah.
00:10:32
Speaker
That's a lot of shots, right? And to not be hitting, that that kills you. Yeah. and And then you also had in this last game, what was it? A seven-minute stretch with no field goals from the the number two highest-ranked offense in NBA history. like That's just unheard of.
00:10:52
Speaker
Right. So just so many things, just, man, it's, it's crazy to think about it. Right. And, um, a lot of people, you know, don't realize that Indiana has been a solid team for years.
00:11:06
Speaker
They've been a well under the radar ran organization, um with, with, you know, a lot of consecutive playoff appearances. Yes, they haven't gone all the way, but I kind of forgot until that last game, Alex, that last year,
00:11:20
Speaker
They made it to the Eastern Conference Finals as well. And you quickly reminded me that they got smoked by Boston, which is true. But like they've had that taste of playoffs. for It's not new to them.
00:11:32
Speaker
You know what mean? And that that team you know has been very well constructed. So we just ran up against a a tough matchup. And and unfortunately, the Cavs come out on the wrong end of it.
00:11:43
Speaker
And I saw a stat that was like number of playoff games that Cavs players have been in versus number of games that Pacers players have been in. And it was...
00:11:55
Speaker
you know, not even close. The Pacers have played many more. Yeah. The players on that team have played many more playoff games than we have. I thought I saw, I thought I saw a stat during the game at this is their, their fifth consecutive playoff appearance.
00:12:10
Speaker
Right. And then, you know, not it's not that long ago that like the Paul, you know, the Paul George era and stuff like that ended in the late teens. I think 2017, 2016, around there.
00:12:24
Speaker
You know, they were they didn't get very far because LeBron and the Cavs and the Miami Heat and all that were around. But, you know, they were a playoff team at that point as well. Like they've they've had a lot of success as far as being, ah you know, a competent team or whatever.
00:12:40
Speaker
And, you know, even though the Cavs were banged up, so so was Indiana. I mean, Miles Turner was was out there limping around the court in those last two games, and he was still making an impact.
00:12:52
Speaker
And not to take away from Donovan Mitchell, who you can you could tell he was giving you his all that he had in this series. He just he just didn't have it from three-point line, and and you could tell he was struggling a little bit.
00:13:07
Speaker
But what I also hated about this series is it forced... us to play the brand of basketball that really doesn't work, which is, which is hero ball, right? Where one player, you're, you're basically relying on Mitchell dumping almost 50 points in a game to try to secure a win. Like we witnessed that with LeBron in the early years and it didn't, it didn't pan out to, to a lot of great stuff. Right.
00:13:32
Speaker
And just, it doesn't work in this NBA either. I don't know that Mitchell was resorting to hero ball until he felt like he had to. You know, when Ty Jerome's missing everything, Darius Garland isn't even playing, and he's carrying the the load.
00:13:50
Speaker
Well, that's where it's disappointing because you still have other players that, you know, and anybody can go off. and You know, Max Struess can go off. Sam Merrill can go off. Mobley can go off.
00:14:01
Speaker
DeAndre Hunter can go off. Ty Jerome can go off. You know, these all these guys can go off. The problem is, is nobody and we really did. Nobody was. Yeah, it's just like, it's so weird. It's so uncharacteristic of the team just like for like every player to be in a shooting slump at the same time.
00:14:20
Speaker
Like if you had to run this as a simulation ah hundred times, a thousand times, right? This exact same series, you know, sure, there'd be different outcomes as far as who would win, but I guarantee you the the the possibility of having everything fall in a line the way this series did It's it's like nil, like it's like one out of a thousand that it would happen. They would lose in this fashion.
00:14:45
Speaker
Like I still say calves in nine. in nine. Let's run it back. And what hurts the most, Alex, is like it erases everything that happened this season.
00:14:59
Speaker
like does It was such a great season. It was like the most fun season I've watched. Yeah. In years. we We talked about how we've we've had we've had nothing to complain about this year, which has also made it a little bit boring as well. Right. As far as coming up with things to talk about on the podcast. But You think about all the historical achievements, the second most wins in franchise history, your coach wins coach of the year, the first defensive player of the year in franchise history.
00:15:25
Speaker
You send three players to the All-Star game and you maintain the number one seed for the entire season. And you get bounced in the second round.
00:15:37
Speaker
Like, man, that's that's just gut-wrenching. And on top of it, you didn't even advance as far as you did last year. So it really feels like a step back.
00:15:48
Speaker
and it and it And it erases every all the achievements this year. Because nobody's going to remember that or or care about that. Rightfully so. So it's just it's sad the way it ended, Alex.
00:15:58
Speaker
It really is. Yeah. Yeah. Just nobody could, and you know, the shooting was bad. ah wish we would have worked a little more through Allen and Mobley because our big guys in the paint, they were still scoring pretty efficiently.
00:16:13
Speaker
ah they're still pulling down rebounds. I don't know why we kept getting away from that and trying to, trying to force the three ball. Yeah, it just felt like the Cavs weren't able to settle in really outside of game three into their brand of basketball, which is not only utilize your bigs, but utilize movement, right?
00:16:35
Speaker
Move the ball, run off screens, and and you know just set up the offense a little bit better. and And part of like what you just said a little bit ago about Ty Jerome struggling to bring up the ball you know within eight seconds, it wasn't just for Ty. It also happened for Darius,
00:16:52
Speaker
it It happened for Mitchell. it happened for whoever brought the ball. So by the time you you're able to set your offense, you're 10 seconds or so into the shot clock and it doesn't leave as much time, right.
00:17:05
Speaker
To, to run a set play. And there was a lot of, of one and dones, right. Like shoot it. And if we weren't getting the rebound, um, you know, Pacers are coming the other way.

Turnovers and Recurring Issues

00:17:18
Speaker
And it just just sucked the life out of the Cavs. They couldn't adapt. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I would have liked to have seen? a Is last year jar and out Jared Allen doing the getting the three-second lane violations?
00:17:34
Speaker
I would have liked to have seen him get one of those and celebrate it. It was nice to see Jared Allen at least play this year, though, Alex, because last year he didn't he didn't play, right? so You know, cheer, cheer.
00:17:47
Speaker
you know, Jared Allen, he still struggled in this series. he did He did. I don't know what his deal was, but man, did he have Butterfingers. I don't know how many times he had a rebound, bobbled it, lost it, caught an inbound, caught a pass and and dropped it or got you know had the ball stripped from his hands.
00:18:06
Speaker
He was just Mr. Butterfingers this whole series. and ah And it drives me crazy. It's funny because, you know, he didn't he didn't always receive the best passes. Right.
00:18:16
Speaker
But I don't feel like that was the case in the regular season. Right. I don't I don't because I know it's the same thing. I'm glad you brought that up because i probably would have forgot to actually. But yeah, there was you know, that was another big thing is is the Cavs turnovers in general.
00:18:31
Speaker
But how many of them were results of that where someone's trying to dump the ball down to like Allen or or somebody cutting and just the player can't hold on to it. Just again, that's something that was a common issue throughout the season.
00:18:45
Speaker
And maybe it was the pressure that they felt or Indiana, you know, their defense and, you know, playoff basketball. It's just, it's different. It's a more high intensity. And, um, the calves, unfortunately, after three years now with this core together, I've still not figured that out.
00:19:03
Speaker
They, they haven't learned the lesson from the New York series, the New York series or the Boston series. And, um, you know, again, they're, it's going to be a long summer as a result.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, turnovers. I mean, that's that's one of the things when I first pulled up. the you know I waited a day. I didn't look at the box score until this morning because but I want to and don't want to dwell on it. But yeah that was one of the first things I looked at was the turnovers, right?
00:19:31
Speaker
yeah I mean, Darius Garland shot four of 16. He had 11 points, five turnovers. He had more turnovers than anyone else on the Cavs and anyone on the Pacers.
00:19:42
Speaker
yeah And that's your that's your starting all-star point guard. Five turnovers, three assists. Right. And i thought I thought in game four, um he looked a little off.
00:19:55
Speaker
This last game, as far as his dribbling and his his movement looked better, I thought. So, but he, he struggled to finish. There were several times he would beat his defender and get to the rim and he wasn't finishing finishing the layups.
00:20:09
Speaker
And then, yes, he had the turnovers and just, you know, Garland struggled to get going in this entire series as well, which, you know, you need Garland to be a major factor in, in an NBA playoff series, right? That's what you're paying them for. That's what he's an all-star for. And,
00:20:27
Speaker
So on and so forth. And if it's funny, Alex, it didn't feel like it, but if you look at if you're looking at the the box score, the Pacers actually had more team turnovers in the Cavs, 13 to 11. But look at that assist difference, 26 to 10. The Cavs only had 10 assists in this last game.
00:20:44
Speaker
eight blocks to three blocks. um You know, it just, there's there's things that are very heavily skewed towards the Pacers and it's just just too much.
00:20:55
Speaker
Cavs only made nine three-pointers in this game, shot 25%. Pacers shot 42%. i thought the Pacers shot pretty well from three-point this whole series, to be honest with you.
00:21:06
Speaker
Yeah. so Free throws. I mean, Donovan Mitchell missed how many free throws in this game? Like, yeah, he he got he got fouled shooting that three and then missed all three free throws.
00:21:18
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So, so, so again, just, there's so many things that were very, it does because, because for the most part, this team wasn't perfect by any means.
00:21:30
Speaker
They had, they have their, their areas of, of gaps, whatever you want to call it. But a lot of these things that we're talking about are, were, were uncharacteristic.
00:21:43
Speaker
Right. Like usually this team shoots the ball well. Usually this team has good, well balanced scoring. Usually this team is more efficient. Usually you can count on guys like like, you know, our rotational players to to give you something. You know, Max Drew's plays 26 minutes last night, doesn't score a single point.
00:22:02
Speaker
Right. Missed every shot he took. You know, that's, you know, it's not going to happen all the time. Right. That's uncharacteristic for him to to do that. Right. Ty Jerome. Same thing.
00:22:14
Speaker
Just so many things that it's just an unbelievable almost. Yeah. Yeah. Just so many things went wrong. and I mean, this team went on 16, 17, 18, you know, game winning streaks.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:28
Speaker
yeah We're having cavalances left and right. this This series, not a single cavalanche. It's just bizarre. the lesson The lesson learned, and it kind of sucks to say this because we you just said it. like This was a very fun season. It was an enjoyable season.
00:22:47
Speaker
I think their longest losing streak was what the the four games, five games out in the West Coast that that happened one time. Long, long winning streaks, you know, three different stretches 12 or more straight wins.
00:23:00
Speaker
So many things to be happy about. But it's kind of like the regular season doesn't mean a damn thing. And I think I'll be more cautious moving forward as a result.
00:23:10
Speaker
Like, that's great. but They're winning games. Until we get to April, i don't know what it means, right? And at the same time, these teams that, you know, finished a little bit lower in the seating, the Knicks, the Pacers, you know, even Detroit, you know, played very well in their and their first playoff run with that team.
00:23:31
Speaker
It's almost like, yeah, the one seed was great to have, but it didn't really benefit us because we still don't have our identity or know how to win in the playoffs. And until we learn how to do that, nothing else really matters. I don't i don't care if they're the eighth seed, right? If they can learn how to win and play and fight and not give up, that's how they're going to take that next step, in my opinion.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I get that. I understand that point of view. i guess I have a really... weird different point of view about that like I I would rather have a whole lot of wins during the regular season because I watch every single Cavs game I watch every game right but I'd much rather see winning games than losing games so if I'm watching them win 65 games one year and 40 games the next year but they win an extra four playoff games like I mean, unless they're winning it all and getting a ring, yeah, but otherwise I'm spending way more hours of my life watching losing basketball than watching winning basketball, even if it might be a regular season.
00:24:37
Speaker
Yeah, no, get that. Does that make Yeah, it makes sense. weird I get it. Obviously, that's that's why I said its it feels weird saying that before i I said all that, because obviously you want to see your team win, right?
00:24:49
Speaker
But were the lesson that I'm learning at least is, didn't mean a damn thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Donovan Mitchell's Leadership and Future

00:24:56
Speaker
64 went, it didn't mean a damn three players. And also didn't mean a damn thing because look at, look at what happened. Look who showed up and ultimately didn't show up when it, when it, when we needed a most. Right.
00:25:08
Speaker
And, um, that's just kind of probably ingrained into a lot of cows fans right now. And as a result, Alex, you already said you made the mistake of of looking at the Cavs subreddit.
00:25:21
Speaker
I today for the God. Yeah, it's just a dumpster fire, right? It is trash. For the first time in this entire series today, after the day after they got eliminated, was the first time I listened to any kind of sports talk radio, local radio.
00:25:38
Speaker
i just tuned out everything because didn't want to hear it And after doing that for one day, I'm umm i'm just going to tune it out again. Right? Because it's just, you're frustrated as a Cavs fan to see so much potential be be wasted.
00:25:51
Speaker
And it was embarrassing, to be honest with you, of of how they went out. And even the announcers in that game five were like, is it almost feels sad. Like this is almost like being like at a funeral. Yeah. You know, it's just, oh man.
00:26:07
Speaker
It was sad. Yeah. and And it had that feeling to it. Like it was just like depressing. Like you could tell the players were depressed. It was. Watching that last few minutes, you could tell that Donovan Mitchell was just like in disbelief.
00:26:21
Speaker
Yeah. And he was completely gassed. He would get down to the defensive end of the court and he just had his hands on his knees and he's looking down. looking up and it's like and you could tell and he would get the ball and he'd bring it down on the offense and and and just immediately jack up a three granted he hit like two or three of them there at the end to try to yeah bring us back but it was it was too late absolutely absolutely So, you know, Alex, you know, we've been going for 25 minutes here, kind of beating up on on the reality of what happened.
00:26:53
Speaker
You know, yeah we we have to accept and and move forward now at this point. And, you know, i don't want to go too crazy with like, oh, you know, speculation of what's going to happen this offseason. i definitely want to hear your your your opinion. Yeah.
00:27:08
Speaker
But before we get to that, um you had mentioned the but the Donovan mechell Mitchell like press conference. And obviously, you know you know he spoke, Atkinson spoke, Garland, you know you know all these people spoke.
00:27:24
Speaker
But with Mitchell specifically, was there anything that stuck with you or or stuck out to you that he said or or kind of how he reacted after you know that game was done?
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah, his postgame was really sad. yeah He did not have very many words. He was just as incredibly disappointed as we all are.
00:27:51
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, he he was like, he did specifically say, you know, I let down the fans. I feel like I let down the city. and this is a great city. I love this city. And I'm just, you know, i he, he, he just have talked about how devastated he was at the way things happened and that the city deserve better and the fans deserve better. And,
00:28:14
Speaker
And he said, I mean, it was really, it was really heartfelt. Yeah. like Yeah. And, and, and he also said, you know, i know that you meeting the media are gonna, you know, you're gonna write us off. You're goingnna write a bunch of, you know, you know, stuff, shit, basically.
00:28:29
Speaker
But he's like, we'll be back. We'll be back next year. And where my mind goes, that's like, the best thing that could have happened after this.
00:28:42
Speaker
Because think about it. For so long, we were held a hostage with with with with LeBron, which is why a lot of the fan, why your fan base is still split to him on this day about that. Because, you know, if this was LeBron, you get some sort of cryptic, you know, we'll see what happens over the summer.
00:29:01
Speaker
Um, you know, our guys didn't show up, you know, throwing guys underneath the bus and stuff like that to where Mitchell, it felt genuine and it felt sincere. He took ownership.
00:29:12
Speaker
He talked about how he is, you know, he and the team is going to use this as fuel. He talked about how he left the city down. He loves this city. We'll be back next year. And the, the only security have,
00:29:26
Speaker
can take out of all this and hopefully other Cavs fans will as well, is that you still have a hell of a player that's still on this team and is still committed to this team. It's not Milwaukee Bucks where they don't know what the future is going to be with Giannis.
00:29:40
Speaker
It's not the Warriors where Steph Curry just got injured and is really at the coattail ends of his his career. And that that roster might only have another year or so, and then they have to completely blow it up.
00:29:52
Speaker
it's not It's not the Boston Celtics who just lost Jason Tatum to a serious injury, and you don't know if he's going to come back and be Klay Thompson or come back and be Jason Tatum.
00:30:03
Speaker
right like The Cavs are still in a scenario where they have you know great core together and they're all locked up salary-wise. They're in the same age group. like That's the only good thing that that I could take from this and to have the leader of your team to say that.
00:30:20
Speaker
And then afterwards, this was a big thing that was circulating on social media, Alex. He actually went back out to the bench after the arena had had you know emptied sat there.
00:30:31
Speaker
and he just sat there And he soaked it in kind of again in disbelief. But the fact that he went back out there, didn't just pack his bags, jump on a flight down to the Caribbean this morning. Like that says a lot.
00:30:46
Speaker
And I just saw something before we started recording um that said like he he said he hasn't been to sleep yet. He rewatched the game twice already just to watch it, to study it. to to you know you know That's all the type of things that you want to see your leader doing.
00:31:01
Speaker
And I think we're so lucky to have a player that's so egoless like that and takes it that seriously. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, it's got to really haunt Donovan Mitchell.
00:31:13
Speaker
I saw a funny comment on on Reddit of. Donovan Mitchell got traded from Utah to Utah because how many seasons in Utah did he, you know, only get to the second round of the playoffs? And now he's back in that hell, that groundhog's day with the Cavs.
00:31:29
Speaker
So that's kind of funny. But i mean, yeah, you bring up the Cavs in the offseason and what can they do? And I think, you know, a big part of that is, you know, where where they're at with the salary cap. And I mean, you've got three players making, you know, 120 mil salary cap.
00:31:46
Speaker
ah You got Darius Garland. making He's going be making $40 million. Donovan Mitchell's at $46 million. Mobley, since he got Defensive Player of the Years, he's going to be making $40 million.
00:32:00
Speaker
Hunter's $20 million. Hunter's making $20 million. makes $20 million. Allen's making $20 million. yeah Yeah, there's not a lot of money to go around. And that's, you know, this was a very expensive roster to put, you know, to put together a very, ah very good roster.
00:32:16
Speaker
Right. And that's also why this is such a disappointment with the way with the way it ended.

Team Roster and Financial Constraints

00:32:21
Speaker
And if it you know, there's three things, there's three options the Cavs have. Um, they, they continue to believe in this team and they, and they run it back, which within 24 hours of being eliminated will be the most unpopular decision, uh, from the Cavs fan base, right. To, to, to, to hold tight, kind of like they did last summer, you know, not dabble very much.
00:32:46
Speaker
The other thing they could do is do something drastic and and move a piece or two from from the core four. And we all know who those candidates are going to be. It's the same ones we were talking about last summer.
00:32:58
Speaker
That would be Darius Garland and Jared Allen. Yeah. Garland makes a lot of money, Alex. Some team would take on a huge commitment salary wise. um And Jared Allen to me still outweighs his value, still outweighs what his salary is.
00:33:15
Speaker
i get this is kind of two years in a row where he didn't have a great playoff run, but at 20 million a year, even if it's 25 now, I forget what it is. That's still a steal for what Allen gives you. Yeah. It's, it's really difficult to find a starting big man that has all the tools that Allen does.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Right. So Garland feels potentially like like maybe the most obvious and would probably potentially get you back the most return because of the salary, because of his age, because of what he can do on the floor.
00:33:46
Speaker
Um, so it'll be interesting, right? The, the third option they can do is not touch the core four and see where they could tweak outside of the core four. Right.
00:33:57
Speaker
I think guys like, like Max Struess, Isaac Akuro, Dean Wade, right? Players like that, I think are now potentially expendable.
00:34:09
Speaker
Right. And you're not going to get anything, you know, huge back for any of those players. None of those players are going to warrant you a huge return. But I don't think the Cavs need a huge addition if they continue with the core four.
00:34:22
Speaker
It's about the pieces that are around the core four. right? Um, that they got to think about maybe they want to get bigger in the backcourt. Maybe they need, unfortunately, do we still, I still don't feel like we have a great, you know, starting small forward.
00:34:35
Speaker
Max Struis is, it would be a great player coming off the bench. I think he's undersized and he's not able to to bang with, with the bigger wings in the, in the league, you know? So there's things like that, that they can also do.
00:34:48
Speaker
If you had those three options presented to you, Alex, you know, what, what would you go with today? I mean, that's a tough question just because of just how strapped the Cavs are with the salary cap. I mean, this season they were like barely sneaking under the salary cap.
00:35:04
Speaker
Next season, because of the salary jumps by several players, namely Mobley jumping from making $10 million this season to $40 million next season, it doesn't just put us over the salary cap.
00:35:16
Speaker
It puts us over the first apron. It puts us over the second apron. So that really limits what we can do. I mean, that... It does. That gets rid of the MLE. That gets rid of ah you're not able to trade more than one player in a single and ah single package, in a single trade.
00:35:35
Speaker
So, I mean, that's, that's brutal. Yeah. It all, it also, you know, decreases your chances of, of you know, bringing back like a tie Jerome, which to me is, you know, ah ah one of the first things they need to make a decision on, right.
00:35:52
Speaker
Um, is determining whether or not to to spend that money on him. um yeah, they're, they're limited in a lot of ways, which makes it challenging. And,
00:36:03
Speaker
you'll start to have part of that fan base that says, see, that's why we shouldn't have given up all those first round picks. And, you know, we were, we're, we're kind of have no out. Right. But that's where, again, may be minor tweaks is all it's going to take.
00:36:18
Speaker
You know, um, when I, when I look at the Pacers and I look at the Knicks, you know, when I, when I look over around the league, ah you know, I'm watching these games and it's like the one thing the Cavs don't have is is a dog on that roster, right? Just a, you know, I thought Okoro could be that guy, right? But he's but he's not he's not consistently in the rotation. he's just, he's not there yet. Maybe he can get there.
00:36:45
Speaker
But the Cavs just don't, like Obi Toppin, for example, What we top in is is not you know anything overly great. It didn't work out in New York. He finds a new home in Indiana, and he just plays with a lot of swag, right? And he's able to do things as well. um you know and And the Cavs just don't have that.
00:37:07
Speaker
Yeah. ju Julius Randall's another. Julius Randall. Guy that's. He. Plays like that. He beat us up in that New York series. Right. And we talked about this a couple of weeks back. Like there's nobody that's just going to go out there and just lay somebody out. And you're like, well, Tristan.
00:37:23
Speaker
Yeah, okay, but like Tristan isn't going to really play and in real games. Yeah, he's not going to contribute. He's not going to contribute. Same with, like you know you know we had Morris last season, right? and he's kind of He was a dog player like that.
00:37:35
Speaker
yeah Extremely physical, but he's he's what he was way past his prime. and He was never really going to contribute. Sure, sure. And even the guy, I can't say his name, um the guy that got ejected for punching Hunter on the Pacers. Oh, Matherin.
00:37:51
Speaker
Matherin. The two of them went out this whole series, right? And he's he's a no-name, meaning like outside of Indiana, nobody knows who he is. He's in the and NBA, so hey, I give him credit for that.
00:38:03
Speaker
But he just has a role in his role is to not, you know, I'm not saying I want to dream on green on this team. Yeah. But I think you need some some attitude, some aggression on this team, some some fight.
00:38:16
Speaker
It's what the team is missing. um You need that kind of heart and soul.

Need for Toughness and Offseason Moves

00:38:21
Speaker
You got to have that guy that'll blow in LeBron's ear or untie his shoe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lance Stevenson. Yeah, Lance Stevenson. you You got have one of those guys on your team, man.
00:38:31
Speaker
And I'm surprised. don't have that. Yeah, you're right. We don't have that. And you asked me before we started recording. And this is my way to finally bring it up because because you're not going to bring it up again. But you're like, what jersey are you wearing? Because I don't usually wear, you know, ah a lot. I don't have a lot of calves. I'm not Alex over here. My closet isn't filled with calves, jerseys and Jordans.
00:38:52
Speaker
um
00:38:55
Speaker
I wore this jersey because I wanted to make the point I just made about not having that dog, that guy that just gives you that 150 percent every second. Is that a deli jersey? It's a deli jersey. Oh, man.
00:39:07
Speaker
And there's some people right now. Because i was like, oh, you're wearing a Kyrie jersey, aren't you? No, no, no, no. You said no, and I was like, okay, then it must be LeBron. But deli was kind of that guy and during that during that era, man, right? He just he just played his tail off.
00:39:21
Speaker
He was a scrappy dude. i don't know that you would put him in the same category as like Julius Randle or Obi Toppin. No, obviously not. Dele was much smaller. And Dele wasn't bullying anybody around. Not physical, yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker
But Dele's effort and his approach to the game just was in like... out almost inspiring in in ways, right? Especially in that 2015 series when when both Kyrie and Love went down and he's he's chasing Curry around, ends up in the hospital. and Yeah, I mean, would slam a he'd slam a pot of coffee before a game. he he He had his own coffee-branded beans in in Cleveland.
00:40:01
Speaker
yeah he was He was a high-wire, high-energy dude. So I don't know where I sit out of those three options as of right now. we were we were We were having some fun chatting earlier about, oh, just go flip ah Garland and Allen and bring in Giannis or something crazy like that, right?
00:40:17
Speaker
Probably not realistic. But if I had one thing that I'd like to see them make in addition to with this team this offseason, it's give me some attitude. Give me some aggression.
00:40:28
Speaker
Give me some heart and soul because this team needs it. They need that mental toughness. They need that physical toughness because it's really, it's obvious. It's been multiple years now, but that's one of the biggest things that this team is lacking. The talent is there, but that toughness is not.
00:40:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't really know who would be available or who that we could even get, but yeah, I mean, we'll have plenty of time to dig into that in the off season. and Exactly. Exactly. And it's not always, it doesn't always have to be a household name. Like I said, sometimes it's ah sometimes about just fit, you know, the right fit and all that kind of stuff. I mean, we we had Hartenstein there for a while.
00:41:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He, he, he'd be a perfect guy right now to have on this roster. Yeah. um We wouldn't have been able to afford him. Right. But that's a perfect people floating. Steven Adams name.
00:41:18
Speaker
I like I like Adams actually able get him. He's kind of getting past his prime. He's getting up there. But he you know I watched a couple of those games that he those that Houston series and he's still out there making an impact.
00:41:30
Speaker
He's such a big body and Aquaman. He's a beast. Yeah, he he can he can... Listen, I love Tristan for what he did in his career as a Cleveland Cavalier, but give me Steven Adams all day over Tristan because Adams is still going to play.
00:41:46
Speaker
Tristan sat the bench, right? And and just kind of yapped on the bench and play played garbage time. and We can't waste a roster spot on that, you know, um you know moving forward. So i like I like Adams a lot. I think he'd be a good get.
00:42:03
Speaker
um But yeah, like you said, it's unfortunately going to be a longer summer than what we wanted now. And as things start to happen after the finals happen and the draft happens and then free agency opens up and trade season, like, you know, we'll we'll get a better picture of what's even realistic and kind of what's even available out there.
00:42:24
Speaker
um You mentioned it to me. Gilbert, Dan Gilbert's social media posts after the game. What did he say, Alex? Yeah, he did a pretty good social media post after the game about, you know, thank you fans. You know, we had a great season.
00:42:44
Speaker
Unfortunately, ended sooner than expected. But he i can't remember the exact line, but it said something about, you know, like, don't worry. we'll, we'll, we'll fix what needs fixed and come back stronger next season or something like that. And it's like, I don't know if I would have used the word fix, like what really needs fixed, like maybe improve, maybe add to maybe. He's finally, he's finally going to do that. Kevin Durant for Evan Mobley trade. It's, it's, it's a done deal.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll see what tricks up their sleeve. They, they potentially have, you did bring up a good point. The Donovan Mitchell thing was completely off the radar, kind of came out of the blue, but dude you know? um So just, you know, anything is possible, but unfortunately,
00:43:35
Speaker
nothing's gonna happen anytime soon so go ahead cast fans go on reddit have your vent sessions do what you're gonna no one wants to read it i i won't be reading that stuff alex was telling me alex was reading some of them before we started oh my gosh just scrolling through like man it's like the titles He's like, I'm downvoting all of these. So you're on there posting on the Cavs subreddit and you're getting some downvotes, it could be Alex doing that.
00:44:02
Speaker
If your post is zero points, it's it's probably because of me. right um I'm vengeful like that. Yep, yep, yep, yep. I see your trash post and I just down i just hit that down arrow hard.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yes, that's good. That's good. Well, Alex, another season in the books. Unfortunately, didn't end how we want. But I think, I mean, that's kind of... That's a wrap, man, unfortunately.
00:44:29
Speaker
Right? I mean, is there anything else from your end? Any final words?
00:44:34
Speaker
Anything else you want to get off your chest?

Season Reflections and Future Hopes

00:44:36
Speaker
I don't think so. We already went about 40 minutes longer than we said we wanted. Yeah, yeah. I thought i thought this was going to be a quick episode. Now we're at 45 minutes. I don't...
00:44:47
Speaker
kind of think we went over it all yeah i did have some other notes here but i'm tired i'm tired of talking about how bad they played yeah exactly everybody everybody understands it was an it was an awesome season ah disappointing finish same as last season same as the season before that but uh i'd rather have a ah you know this much success than no success yeah Yeah, absolutely. Again, this team still has a window of opportunity.
00:45:16
Speaker
this Even if they ran this quarterback salary-wise, age demographic-wise, talent-wise... this team still has another two to three year window right before like, okay, if, if you didn't win it by that point, you know, you're probably moving on from Donovan Mitchell. You're probably letting them go. You're probably, you're probably, you're blowing it up at that point. So again, we're not, we're not in complete rebuild mode.
00:45:42
Speaker
This team will continue to be fun and continue to be a contender here, you know, for for the next foreseeable future. So that is something to hang on to over this, this summer. And Cavs basketball will be back before we know it.
00:45:57
Speaker
All right, let's get out of here, Alex. Cavs fans want to thank you as always for tuning in and listening. And Alex, let them know where they can follow us and connect with us. Follow us on Twitter at Cavs Pick and Roll. Shoot us an email, CavsPickAndRoll at gmail.com.
00:46:12
Speaker
Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr. Watch this episode on YouTube. Whoever you're listening, watching, click like, subscribe. Leave us a rating or review. We'd appreciate it. All right, Cavs fans. There it is.
00:46:22
Speaker
We'll talk again soon. Peace out, Cavs fans.