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“Some parents want a trans daughter more than a gay son" - Sydney Watson [Part I]
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Update: Australiana is now Fire at Will - your safe space for dangerous conversations.
Sydney Watson is not a quiet Australian, although she shares their frustrations. On the contrary she’s a very loud Australian. Her army of over one million social media followers come to her for funny and fearless culture war observations.
In this first episode of a two-part series, host Will Kingston and Sydney discuss the body positivity movement, trans conversion therapy and the rise of identity politics within companies.
Follow Will Kingston and Fire at Will on social media here.
Subscribe to The Spectator Australia here.
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Transcript
Introduction: Spectator Australia Magazine & Podcast Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
The Spectator Australia magazine combines incisive political analysis with books and arts reviews of unrivalled authority. Subscribe today at spectator.com.au forward slash join.
00:00:25
Speaker
G'day and welcome to Australiana from The Spectator, a series of conversations on Australian politics and life.
Scott Morrison's Victory and 'Quiet Australians'
00:00:31
Speaker
I'm Will Kingston. Today Scott Morrison is about as popular as Salman Rushdie in Tehran, so it's easy to forget he won a stunning election victory in 2019. He credited the win to the quiet Australians, everyday Aussies who were more concerned with raising their kids and paying their mortgage than the sanctimonious moralising of liberal elites.
00:00:50
Speaker
They didn't call into radio stations, they didn't protest in the streets, and they certainly didn't tweet their frustrations away 280 characters at a time. But they did turn up at the ballot box.
00:01:00
Speaker
Problem is, as is their want I suppose, they have remained quiet, and it's allowing a very loud, very authoritarian, very loony minority to change the fabric of Australia.
Meet Sydney Watson: Controversial Commentator
00:01:11
Speaker
My guest today is not a quiet Australian, although I suspect she shares many of their frustrations. On the contrary, she's a very loud Australian. Sydney Watson was recently described in a Daily Mail profile as a firebrand conservative commentator, and I don't even think that does her style justice.
00:01:28
Speaker
Her army of over one million followers across YouTube and Twitter come to her for fearless and funny cultural observations that have struck a chord from Melbourne, where she was raised, all the way to Texas, where she resides. I'm speaking to her from, well, Sydney. Sydney, welcome to Australiana.
00:01:45
Speaker
Thanks for having me. Isn't it funny you're talking to me from Sydney? My name is Sydney. I live in Texas. It's tremendous. Yes, I was trying to work out a funny pun. I couldn't really come up with anything good, so I thought best steer clear. At least you didn't make a joke about the Opera House because that's always the inevitable thing that comes out of this. People are like, Sydney from Australia, Opera House, always.
Americans' Misconceptions About Australia
00:02:08
Speaker
Interesting. What else do Americans know about Australia or associate with Australia when you speak to them?
00:02:13
Speaker
That's actually a great question. I've gotten some really, really dumb questions over time, and I love Americans. I think they're some of the funnest, greatest people, but sometimes I'm like, you guys, yeah, I don't know what's going on upstairs. Someone once asked me if wombats have wings, and I suppose that's because it's a wombat, like that flying bat, recently. So maybe I'm the not smart one. They always associate it with Sydney, the Sydney Harbour Bridge, the Opera House. Everyone asks questions about like the bush.
00:02:43
Speaker
Like going to the bush that just seems to be like so foreign to them because they call it forest or jungle or whatever. And they can't wrap their head around this big expanse of land that you just go and walk into and then hopefully don't get bitten by snakes. I'm sure you've experienced this too. Do people not ask you about spiders all the time? I get that a lot, the spider thing.
00:03:02
Speaker
The thing is though, that the spider thing is actually real. I had a spider in my shower literally this morning. It's one of those cliches, which is a cliche for a reason. You generally have to kill over a dozen spiders every summer before you go to bed, so I can understand that one. It's like saying a prayer to Odin, except instead you're squishing huntsmen. Actually, no, the huntsmen are all right. I don't mind the huntsmen.
00:03:26
Speaker
And it's good to get some Norse mythology references into the conversation early. I have to. I was initially going to frame this conversation around a particular issue, but that would probably be doing our listeners a disservice.
Viral Airplane Experience and Obesity Debate
00:03:39
Speaker
So instead I've binged your YouTube channel and I've got a buffet of cultural issues to throw at you. Alrighty. First though, can you tell us about your now viral airplane experience?
00:03:53
Speaker
Yes, I can. And it's funny because what people didn't realize, uh, it's apologies if you can hear my, my Papa's barking in the background. They seem to think that anybody walking outside is an enemy and they must get the enemy. So apologies if my mic's picking that up. Exactly. The airplane story is an interesting one because people didn't realize at the time that it coincided with me being in New York for this vice panel that I did, which coincidentally also went viral.
00:04:22
Speaker
So first things first, I just, I had flown to New York to do this vice panel about feminism, which was a mess. I don't know if you've seen it. I have, it's on my list. It was just a lot of shrieking and I got shouted out by this, I guess.
00:04:38
Speaker
She probably identifies as an Afghani refugee type situation person thing. That was really fun. And then on my way home, I needed to get a particular flight back because I was actually flying out to Australia to visit my family for the first time in three years, like a couple of days later. So I really needed to get back. This is the only flight, full flight middle seat.
00:04:58
Speaker
Kind of sucks. Usually it's okay. I walked down the aisle. There's two quite rotund people sitting on the window and on the aisle. And I'm like the little, you know, I was, it was an Oreo because I'm the little white girl between the two big black people. And it was just, you know, it was just wasn't fun. I sat there for what, four hours, four and a half hours getting squished the whole time. I tried to take images. And the thing is, and you probably know this too with Twitter.
00:05:23
Speaker
Anything that you do on Twitter that you say has happened to you, there's always a plethora of people who respond and they say, I don't believe you. You're making this up. And I thought you're not going to say that to me, your butt head. So I tried to take photos of these these fat rolls that were making their way onto my side, not even my side, just into my seat space. And I took photos so that I could actually see, look, guys, this is really happening to me.
00:05:46
Speaker
rage tweeted about it for the entirety of the flight. I literally bought the internet on the flight so I could rage tweet. And yeah, this story went viral. And then I flew out to Australia and I missed all the news on it and I was like, damn, that sucks. But it entertained people, which made me happy because it also got people talking about the fat acceptance movement and obesity on airplanes, which is a big thing here.
Body Positivity vs. Mediocrity
00:06:08
Speaker
Well, it's really, really big.
00:06:09
Speaker
Well, I don't know if you know if the Australian of the Year Awards have made, I don't know if they've made it to Texas yet, but body positivity is very much a theme there. So for anyone who doesn't know, Taryn Brumford was the Australian of the Year.
00:06:26
Speaker
She's effectively an Instagram influencer. She's built a nice little brand around body positivity and rejecting media stereotypes of beauty. And to your point, she's part of this broader trend that basically says being fat isn't your fault. It's either the media or it's your genes. Why do you think our generation has effectively given up on personal responsibility?
00:06:49
Speaker
That is actually such a great question. I don't think it's our generation necessarily. I think it's feeding into Gen Z a lot more than it is for us millennials, because I think for millennials, there's still a level of self-accountability left. I think we're the last generation to have that. I think Gen Z are the ones that are fully indoctrinated into this. It doesn't matter how you look, because you'll be accepted no matter what. It doesn't matter what you put in your mouth, because diet and culture, it's racist and it's sexist and you shouldn't participate.
00:07:18
Speaker
And so it was actually interesting seeing that she's kind of like a fed acceptance activist in a little ways, I guess, the lady who won Australian of the Year. I didn't really know what to make of that, to be honest with you, because I was like, I just didn't know that Australia even sort of was on that same wavelength. That feels like a very Americanized value to have to really put an emphasis on being a bigger person. I feel like Aussies are not really like that so much. I don't know, maybe I've been away for too long and you'll disagree.
00:07:47
Speaker
Australia is downstream of American culture. It's probably just on a lag effect of about 18 to 24 months. So I think it's there. My response wasn't necessarily, she's doing anything particularly
Corporate Embrace of Body Positivity
00:07:59
Speaker
bad or evil. It's just, this is a country of 27 million people now. And is that really the best that we can come up with for the number one person to celebrate over a given year?
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah, we know that you're exactly right. There are people in Australia who are doing some phenomenally amazing things. And to highlight an activist who is just, and again, I'm not super familiar with her. I did a preliminary look after I saw the news about it. But she does come across as one of these sort of like, they always end up being fat acceptance people because the body acceptance, the body positivity movement,
00:08:31
Speaker
sort of coincides, they kind of run parallel to one another. So it's just really, yeah, that's actually such a great point. It is so odd to me that that's who you pick rather than somebody who, you know, has made strides towards curing cancer, say, or I don't know, has built a giant replica of the Taj Mahal somewhere in the Northern Territory. I don't know. It's just there's people who are doing so many phenomenal things that don't get a look in and I'm like,
00:08:57
Speaker
What is with our preoccup- You know what I want to know? Here's a better question. What's our preoccupation with mediocrity? That's- That's what I want to know.
00:09:04
Speaker
I may very well be setting myself up for a fall here because depending on how this podcast goes, I could very well be spooking mediocrity. We'll have to wait and see, but it's a really interesting question. I think it comes back to the same analogy that the body positivity movement does, which is it's easier to be mediocre. It's easier to be fat. And so it's a way for you to reconcile those things and not have to put in hard work. What I don't understand though, is how so many
00:09:32
Speaker
Corporates and particularly fashion and beauty brands have bought into this nonsense. Burberry, I think, came out with a really, really weird campaign the other day. They're one of millions of different examples. Why do you think that that is the case in that industry?
TikTok's Influence on Youth Trends
00:09:49
Speaker
I mean, it's hot right now. It's trendy. It's fashionable. I feel bad for all you lads who are having to be forced not only to accept this really bizarre turn of events when it comes to the way that females are acting and males are acting.
00:10:06
Speaker
I actually won't finish that thought because it's kind of mean. But I do have for lads, because everyone's like, you're a transphobe and you're this and you're that if you don't want to date the non-binary, agender, asexual, demi-boy. And you're like, what? That's happening to you guys a lot more than it's happening to us. We're just having our entire sex erased at the moment, so I feel like we're getting off a little bit better in the situation.
00:10:27
Speaker
But yeah, no, the Burberry thing was interesting because I think that for anyone who's not seen the image, it's basically they had an ad where I have to assume that one of the people in the ad is either trans or quote unquote non-binary, as they like to call themselves. And they have very obvious double mastectomy scars. And then they're situated, I guess, being kind of intimate with another person who has
00:10:50
Speaker
How would you even describe that person's haircut, Will? Because I don't even know, I don't even have the words, like a bowl cut that's with the side shaved, but not, I don't know, weird haircuts going on. It's something which I've seen a lot in the north of England amongst Chavish guys. So I don't know how it actually applies to that now very cool, trendy movement that's above my pay grade.
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, same. They probably wouldn't appreciate being called Chavs, these people, because they think they're also trying to be trendy. But I do think a lot of this comes back to the fact that I think there's a couple things at play. Firstly, you have- it is a fad, and it's a terrible fad because somewhere down the line,
00:11:31
Speaker
What's being highlighted in media all across the place? I mean, you see this at the Grammys, you see it for Burberry advertisements, all these other advertisements in children's stores, etc. The sad thing is that these surgeries and whatnot that are becoming the net effect of normalizing this, they're not reversible.
00:11:48
Speaker
You know remove your breasts and then get them back you know three years later because you change your mind you can't undo some of the very permanent side effects of cross-sex hormones and these sort of things so the fadness of it is really really actually quite upsetting because you're gonna have all these young people down the road.
00:12:06
Speaker
We're like, I thought this was cool because I kept seeing it advertised everywhere. I've done it now and I can't undo it. And then the other component of this, and this is the one I harp on about nonstop because I'm becoming an old grandpa and everything technological makes me mad. But this is how I feel about TikTok too, where TikTok is such a place of social contagion and you have all these young people and the people who use TikTok are predominantly between the ages of
00:12:30
Speaker
honestly like about 14 through to about 25. And these are people who are very impressionable when they get into these little echo chamber groups. And so again and again and again they're exposed to the same things being told that this is fun and it's a trend and you can do this and now look how fun and interesting you are. And then they're seeing that replayed back to them in the media that they consume and the advertising that they consume. So the social contagion element of this is
00:12:55
Speaker
It's a big time and it's going to have some really not okay effects further down the line.
Trans Issues and Cultural Comparisons
00:12:59
Speaker
I mean, we're actually already seeing it. It's already not, it's already not okay. It's a really good point that you make. And it's a point that even the millennial generation, I don't think fully comprehends the impact this is having on Gen Z, let alone generations that are older than that. On the trans issue, you've called that or you've called more specifically the transitioning of kids, the new gay conversion therapy. How are they analogous? Wait, say that again. How are they what?
00:13:23
Speaker
Analogous. Where are the similarities? Oh, I've never heard that word before. There you go. You taught me something. Analogous.
00:13:29
Speaker
It's a goodie. Yeah, that is a good one. I learned one the other day that was a pricity. I think that's what it was. So it's where it's like the sun breaking through the clouds on a rainy day. I thought that was really nice. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I love the English language. I always come across things that I've never heard before, obviously. And I go, wow, I'm going to integrate that into my language. And then I say it again and again and again. And people are like, Sydney, you found a new word. You really like it. You can start using it. So your one will be the new one that I just keep saying on repeat.
00:13:58
Speaker
So for anybody who's not familiar with the transing away the gay thing, which I think again will become more and more common as we roll along. And the reason that I've talked about this is because there are wider examples of it happening outside of the Western world, because I think we get a little bit myopic when it comes to looking at what's happening in the West specifically, because it is a it's sort of a weird little microcosm, particularly here in the US, but
00:14:22
Speaker
Things happen outside of the US, especially, you know, as somebody who lives and works in this space. It's like, yeah, I get it. America feels very central, but it's not. So the reason I started talking about the transing away the gay thing is because in Iran, if you're a gay person, particularly gay men, there is a lot of social pressure to transition to a female because people would rather have you be a transgender woman than a gay man.
00:14:45
Speaker
And a lot of that is actually becoming commonplace or more common here in the US. I dare say in Australia, probably in the UK, there's lots of places where you can point to where it's happening. And it's the same thing. It's very, very big in the UK now.
00:14:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And I think what people don't realize is that parents feel more comfortable, for whatever reason, and people themselves feel more comfortable being a trans whatever, rather than a gay, you know, biologically, let's say that again, it's a man, they're much more comfortable either having a trans daughter, rather than a gay son, or the individual is more happy being, you know, a trans woman than a gay man.
00:15:23
Speaker
It's so sad because in a way, you kind of are raising homosexuality and rather than just encouraging people to be like, yeah, just accept you as you are, you know, what you do in the privacy of your own home, that's up to you, provided it's not children. We don't want any of that, like that's, you know, kids and children, let's not across the board. But, you know, if you're doing it with a consenting adult, do what you want to do, be a weirdo, it's fine. And so what, it's really sad because rather than the acceptance of self being promoted,
00:15:51
Speaker
It's like, no, we must fix what we think is wrong. And people think that this doesn't apply to the conservative right, but it actually does. You hear a lot of parents that are like, oh, you know, we prayed and we prayed and we prayed and then we realized our kid was trans. Wow. Now they can be straight. It's like, no, you're actually just in a way sort of.
00:16:08
Speaker
demonizing your kid's own existence and then trying to sort of sway it in an opposite direction. And it is gay conversion therapy in a way, except that you're just changing the overall look and appearance of your kid or yourself to fit in with the heterosexuality thing. It's kind of messed up.
00:16:24
Speaker
That's a fascinating insight about the conservative right actually being a part of this problem, and it's one that I hadn't considered. It also highlights the core problem here, which is this is fundamentally related to how communities, particular communities, think about this issue as opposed to a genuine medical problem 99% of the time.
00:16:46
Speaker
I think probably most of the people who would listen to this podcast or many would have heard Bill Maher's take on this issue. And he makes the point that, isn't it funny how the vast majority of people with gender dysphoria are located in San Francisco, New York, et cetera, and very, very fewer in places like Ohio. But as an aside, isn't it amazing that the world is now so crazy that Bill Maher from the liberal left of 20 years ago is now pretty much the voice of reason on the center right?
Evolution of Media and Political Labels
00:17:14
Speaker
It's extraordinary.
00:17:16
Speaker
Okay, that just shows you, and people always talk about the Overton window shifting, right? But it does show you that some people who in the days gone by would have either been like legitimately liberal or like a classic liberal who value freedom and liberty and all this sort of stuff. They are now the ones who have basically found a home somewhere on the right. I don't think that, what I've learned recently is that the right wing is not
00:17:40
Speaker
It's not just a monolith of people. I mean, there's a really broad range of views and opinions and things. I don't feel like that's really the case for the, quote unquote, other side of the aisle so much. I do find that there's more of a tribalist view of things. And I think that's probably why a lot of voices that are now considered dissenting really never would have been, but they're just pushed out because radical leftism and radical progressivism is like, we don't want this. Go away.
00:18:08
Speaker
There's a wonderful term that John Howard used to describe the Liberal Party when he was Prime Minister, and he said that the Liberal Party was a broad church. And by that, he meant that the right wing of politics, of which in Australia the Liberal Party represents, has to accommodate liberals and libertarians, as well as social conservatives. And traditionally, at least under Howard, the Liberal Party did that quite well, although it's debatable to whether they're bringing those groups together today,
00:18:36
Speaker
The problem I see is that the left are so effective at taking over the language around how we talk about these issues.
Academia's Impact on Language and Society
00:18:43
Speaker
And I see it personally in the way that I talk about politics. I see it in the way that the spectator is referred to. So there's a lot of people who would talk about the spectator as a far right media organization, when really a lot of the strands of traditional liberalism and libertarianism run through the spectator's writings for over 150 odd
00:19:05
Speaker
years, pretty much any group now that the left doesn't like, they very effectively label them as far right or as, as extremists or as fascists. Elon Musk is another example of someone who traditionally was of the left. Now he is far right. How can the right do better at control, controlling is the wrong word. How can they do better with this question of language?
00:19:28
Speaker
Oh, that is a good one. Well, I think a lot of this begins in academia because what kind of informs a lot of the language that you see everywhere is these kids go to school. Because think about it right. Like if you talk to the average tradie in the street and you're like, cisgender, they'd be like, what?
00:19:46
Speaker
They don't know what that is. They've never come into contact with that. They're like, yo, I'm a chippy. I build houses, fam. I don't talk about any of this sort of stuff. I have no idea. What even is that? That's a made up term. Don't even use that. Would be the average response. Whereas at university, these terms are so common, and these are the people who they go to school,
00:20:06
Speaker
to get a degree in whatever area that is and either they become new professors who keep teaching this stuff to other students or they go out into reasonably impactful environments like journalism, like media, just generally like politics. They become lawyers, they become doctors, and they're the ones who then get inserted into this mindset where they're continually using all this language. So I think academia is a real central point for a lot of this because even when I did a master of journalism at Melbourne University,
00:20:33
Speaker
And when I was at school, I was so taken aback even then by how much leftism was making its way into my course. And it drove me bonkers. Like, I hated it because I thought, this is not what we're here to do. If we're actual journalists, we're meant to be bringing fair, true, verified information, all you guys want to do is push a bloody agenda. It drove me insane.
00:20:58
Speaker
like actually insane. And so looking at that just from my own vantage point, I see now how all of those students and, you know, let's say 50 percent of them went on to become like actual bonafide journalists working for media organizations. They're taking the language that we're constantly getting fed at school at university. And now they're using that to write their articles. And where do you think information is disseminated? It's through journalism, through media, through print. And that's what people are reading and engaging with nonstop.
00:21:28
Speaker
Yeah. And then from academia, it now seems to permeate other institutions like the media.
Middle Management and Progressive Agendas
00:21:34
Speaker
The one that you didn't mention is also the corporate world. And I read a fascinating paper on how companies go work was the title. I can't remember the two authors names off the top of my head, but we're going to try and get them on this podcast and talk about it. But their key takeaway on this was that organizations are not being driven to the left by either the bottom. So the people at the front line, they just want to work hard.
00:21:58
Speaker
provide for their families, go home at the end of the day. It's not being driven by people at the very top in the C-suite because ultimately they're responsible to shareholders and they've got a board, they've got to keep happy. It's this glut of middle management in a lot of these sorts of companies that have an incentive to try and make their job more purposeful than it otherwise would be. Marketing departments are absolutely prime example.
00:22:21
Speaker
HR departments are another one. Because traditionally, if you think about it, these are departments within organizations that have traditionally had less power than some of the other departments. HR has often been seen at the kind of bottom of the tree when it comes to corporate prestige. Marketing is often pushed to one side. It's actually very reminiscent of the broader power struggles in society that lead to these sorts of progressive issues slowly coming to the fore.
00:22:50
Speaker
So you think it's sort of like, let's say maybe the blue collar worker doesn't have time to worry about this stuff because they're really just quite content to make money, go home, do whatever it is that they're striving towards. And middle management, maybe really it's that middle management in a way or just the middle is kind of bored. Maybe the middle doesn't have too many issues that they really are so concerned with. And so then part of this is then fixating on
00:23:17
Speaker
minute, not important issues, and then making them the primary focus of all of their attention. Because I think you make a good point though, but who teaches HR people? Where do the HR people come from? What environments are they learning these things about? Because really, and I think it's quite actually gross in the corporate world too, how much training goes into this. I think that there's a time and place for some of it.
00:23:42
Speaker
But I have heard from friends and also, you know, subscribers, followers and things they write me all the time and tell me about the insane things going on in their workplaces. And I do notice that there's like a lot of demonization of men, for example, that does go on at work. And like I said, I don't have a problem.
00:23:59
Speaker
with cracking down on, say, sexism towards either sex. I don't think it's appropriate in any regard ever. But male-female relations can be complicated in the workplace. I get trying to facilitate a happier environment for everybody. But then there is a point where it steps too far and you go off the edge of the cliff. And you've really gotten to a point where rather than just trying to safeguard people and make sure that everyone is working together in a cohesive unit, you're really just starting to attack people.
00:24:23
Speaker
And I don't like that. And I think that that is really the result of, yeah, like you were saying, a lot of these changes, a lot of the language changes, but also this overemphasis on non-existent problems. It's very strange.
00:24:35
Speaker
It is strange.
Using Leftist Structures Against Them
00:24:36
Speaker
There's a question here that I like to ask of a lot of people in your position who have built up a strong business that in some respects are somewhat uncancellable. You know, you've got a really committed core following who believe your ideology. You don't have a manager in a company who you're accountable to.
00:24:58
Speaker
So many people I speak to are in that position and they feel powerless. They feel like they don't buy into work ideology. They don't buy into identity politics, but they feel that they have to go to the unconscious bias training because they'll lose their job if they don't. What advice would you give to a person in that position?
00:25:16
Speaker
I've always said, and you are right, and I am quite fortunate in a way to really only answer to Susan Wojcicki of YouTube. Don't cancel me and delete my channel. Yeah, I am lucky that I get to be in a position where I can do and say the things that I do and say. And I am so actually genuinely thrilled to be able to be a voice for people who feel like they can't do those things. But in terms of giving them
00:25:40
Speaker
some advice. I've always said, and I stand by this, that if you want to change things, particularly in the workplace, use the leftism against them. And people always have a hard time with that because people on the right generally, or center right, or moderate to right wing somewhere in that realm, have a really hard time with being victims, acting like victims, I find.
00:26:04
Speaker
And so when you say to them, complain to HR in the same way that a leftist would about you, they go, I don't want to do that. I don't want to, I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to cause issues. Well, if someone is very unkind to you or mean to you, or, you know, they say something incredibly crappy about you being a straight white man, why couldn't you go to HR and say, I feel bullied, put it in writing, I feel bullied, such and such bullied me at work.
00:26:25
Speaker
Yes, it feels slimy, but ultimately you're using the structures that they put into place to complain about something legitimate, and you're kind of using it against them in a way. You're using the same silly things that they have forced you to participate in against them. It's same with the pronouns thing. People always say to me, like, oh, you know, they're forcing us to put pronouns in our signatures, in our emails. And I'm like, so come up with some ridiculous
00:26:49
Speaker
pronouns and then force everyone to call you that. If enough people took things to the nth degree, I think these companies would very quickly step back from it. And if enough people complained about these things together, I think companies would have to step back from it. It's more challenging, I suppose, if you work for a larger corporation, say like
00:27:06
Speaker
I don't know, say you work for Starbucks and they're in enormous and like really what can you do because there's so many employees with so many different political leanings and events and whatnot and let's be real it's predominantly left over there but let's say that there are some people who are moderate or right wing who work for Starbucks that's more challenging but for some of these smaller firms I don't think it's that challenging to change things from within your company.
00:27:27
Speaker
As far as getting involved out in the real world, say that your kid's school is doing something crazy, run for the school board. Actually, I can't remember how Shirley works in terms of that stuff. Do we have school boards? We've got school councils, which have some degree of power.
00:27:41
Speaker
Well, yeah, it's like get involved at a local level because everything changes at the local level. It's not the federal government that makes changes. They do make changes in your life, but it's not the federal government that overall is impacting you as much as you think. It's the things happening locally. And I think people forget that a lot of the time.
00:27:58
Speaker
I think that's a good point. I also think there's a lot of merit in taking the piss out of the woke left for anyone who is following Australiana on Instagram. If you're not, you're missing out on absolute comedy gold. You will have seen that the fun little koala that's become our Australiana mascot.
00:28:14
Speaker
has recently come out as non-binary and we're fully supportive of that as a decision. I love that. My concern around this though, are you reinforcing and perpetuating those same structures by buying into it, even if you're buying into it in a way which is, to use that great Australian term, a piss take?
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, you could be, but also, if not enough people are willing to stand up together, I think that's the bigger issue. And so if you're one person who's miserable at work, and you hate it, and you're like, why is it like this? And you want some things to change.
00:28:51
Speaker
Well, if the only structures that are in place that you can actually take advantage of happen to be leftist ones, yes, it's unfortunate. But I feel like if that's the only ammunition that you have, that's probably the ammunition you need to actually take up. I mean, I'm kind of pragmatic. I think about a lot of this because the same with what was going down during the last few years with COVID and everything. Friends of mine who are very, very, very American, very hard-lined about a lot of this sort of stuff. They're like, if everyone just stood together and didn't do this, this and this, none of this would be happening.
00:29:19
Speaker
Yes, yes, you're exactly correct. However, your average person is not going to band together with everybody else and storm in the streets and be like, we're not going to take this. Your average people are just not going to do that because they have so many other considerations. And I've had to learn this and soften on all of these issues because I have had my hard-lined angry moments, especially when I was locked out from home for three years, I became very irate.
00:29:42
Speaker
But when you kind of look at it as like yeah if a couple people at work stand up in whatever environment and start. Trying to change the culture that's great but you're going to have to start somewhere and if the starting places want like I said using their own structures against them I don't think there's anything wrong with that now if we keep them in place.
00:29:59
Speaker
after things have been changed so much that people are happier and don't have to participate in the things that they abhor from the outset, well then it's a problem. Why would you keep them in place once you've achieved what you wanted? Get rid of them, scrap them, move on from that point.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's a very good point. I think it's a deep one to ponder.
Teaser: Upcoming Topics on Feminism
00:30:16
Speaker
I've glanced at my list and we're definitely not going to get through everything that I want to get through in one podcast. Well, for everyone listening at the moment, we're going to pause here and I'm going to be splitting this out into two podcasts so you can get two servings of Sydney. When you come back for the second podcast, we will be starting with Sydney's take on feminism, which is something she's very well known for, and anti-feminism, which I'm keen to get her take on.
00:30:41
Speaker
as well as kicking off with that notorious vice debate. So please check back in next week to listen to more Sydney Watson. Thank you very much for listening to this episode of Australiana. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe and if you really enjoyed it, please leave us a rating and a review.