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Insights on Aligning Co-Founder Goals with Bret Larsen, eVisit Co-Founder and CEO
4 Plays4 years ago
They say that one of the keys to success in start-up land–where predicting the future can seem nearly impossible–is to have the right people with you on the bus. Key people who can adapt and perform well despite the chaos and uncertainty. But there's no saying to guide us when the bus has two drivers who disagree about which directions to follow or who should take the wheel. Today we'll examine what it takes to stay the course when internal leadership strife threatens to off-road you and your company as we talk with Bret Larsen, Co-founder of eVisit, an Arizona-based SaaS company, and venture capital investor Curt Roberts of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) to bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. This episode will explore:
How founders can manage tension on their leadership team
The importance of identifying co-founder goals
Identifying goals and values before choosing partners and team members
Why prioritizing your personal life is essential to your professional success
Recommended
Transcript
Right Team for Startup Success
00:00:00
Speaker
They say that one of the keys to success in startup land, where predicting the future can seem nearly impossible, is to have the right people with you on the bus.
00:00:08
Speaker
Key people who can adapt and perform well despite the chaos and uncertainty.
00:00:13
Speaker
But there's no saying to guide us when the bus has two drivers who disagree about which directions to follow or who should even be taking the
Investor and Entrepreneur Perspectives
00:00:21
Speaker
wheel.
00:00:21
Speaker
Today, we'll examine what it takes to stay the course when internal leadership strife threatens to off-road you and your company as we talk with Brett Larson, founder of eVisit, and investor Kurt Roberts of Kickstart to bring you both sides of A Perfect Pitch.
00:00:44
Speaker
What is Perfect Pitch?
00:00:46
Speaker
It's a podcast from Kickstart that reveals the minds of both investors and entrepreneurs throughout a startup's journey.
00:00:52
Speaker
So whether that's uncovering what everyone's really thinking during a startup pitch or learning how entrepreneurs like you have managed your first major roadblock, Perfect Pitch offers an honest, quick, and tactical guide to help you on your startup journey.
00:01:07
Speaker
I'm your host, Karen Zelnick.
00:01:09
Speaker
Brett and Kurt, thank you so much for being here today.
00:01:12
Speaker
Thank you, Karen.
00:01:13
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Karen.
Brett Larson on Healthcare Tech and Venture Capital
00:01:15
Speaker
It's going to be an exciting discussion.
00:01:16
Speaker
But before we jump into more bus driving analogies, I just want to introduce you a little bit.
00:01:21
Speaker
Brett, you're the CEO and founder of eVisit, which is transforming the way healthcare providers deliver care to their patients.
00:01:27
Speaker
Such an exciting time to be doing that, by the way.
00:01:30
Speaker
And before that, you've worked in B2B SaaS organizations and ad tech, health tech and ed tech.
00:01:37
Speaker
What else should we know about you?
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, before starting e-visit, I also worked in venture capital.
00:01:42
Speaker
I was on the ops side of a small boutique firm here in Phoenix and really focused on helping their portfolio identify their category of one and strategically operate their go-to-market strategies.
00:01:54
Speaker
So I've seen a lot on the venture side.
00:01:56
Speaker
And now I'm running a venture-backed company.
Kurt's Personal Anecdotes and Insights
00:01:59
Speaker
That's amazing.
00:02:00
Speaker
Can't wait to dive into all your learnings and everything we've got to talk about today.
00:02:04
Speaker
And Kurt, always love having you on the podcast.
00:02:07
Speaker
For those listening, there's going to be a link to Kurt's bio in our show notes.
00:02:10
Speaker
And as is our tradition, I'd love to know one thing that return listeners don't yet know about you, Kurt.
00:02:16
Speaker
Okay, so I keep struggling to come up with these, but here's a new one.
00:02:19
Speaker
But you always come up with great ones.
00:02:22
Speaker
Yeah, fast food sometimes, but on one occasion for some very strange reasons, I was on Larry King Live twice in the same week.
00:02:32
Speaker
Being on Larry King once is amazing, but twice in the same week, that's something that only Kurt would ever be able to say.
00:02:39
Speaker
And I love it.
00:02:39
Speaker
Thank you, Kurt.
00:02:41
Speaker
Let's just jump right into the discussion.
00:02:44
Speaker
Brett, there are a lot of really cool things about eVisit's story that are interesting to talk about and I want to dive into.
00:02:50
Speaker
But the most interesting thing might actually be something that happened with your co-founder and a rift that happened there.
00:02:56
Speaker
So I want to dive into that if you're comfortable talking about that.
00:02:58
Speaker
And I'd ask Kurt to provide some detail on the situation and the subsequent rift, if that's okay with
Early Struggles and Investor Guidance
00:03:04
Speaker
you.
00:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it.
00:03:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:06
Speaker
Kurt, over to you.
00:03:09
Speaker
We invested in e-visit originally in December of 2016.
00:03:13
Speaker
The company had shown some very significant promise selling telemedicine software to small to medium-sized practices.
00:03:23
Speaker
The challenge is, I think, both the company and we as investors learned the hard way, was small to medium practices were really not well-equipped to understand what to do with the software once they purchased it.
00:03:35
Speaker
And eVisit had taken the investment dollars, had invested in team and marketing, all of the things that startups do with resources to build the business.
00:03:47
Speaker
And the business was taking two steps back for every step forward.
00:03:52
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we hit some fairly rocky times where some hard decisions might have to be made.
00:03:59
Speaker
And Brett's co-founder was feeling some very significant stress around where the company was and how it was going to proceed.
00:04:08
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And that led to some really challenging circumstances that we had to deal with
eVisit's Early Revenue Success
00:04:13
Speaker
together.
00:04:13
Speaker
Okay, Brett, what's the story?
00:04:15
Speaker
What happened?
00:04:17
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My background, like I mentioned, is in accounting and marketing.
00:04:21
Speaker
And oddly enough, there were two industries I said I'd never work in coming out of school.
00:04:25
Speaker
The first was healthcare and the second was education.
00:04:28
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I've done both of them now, but I've found they're kind of laggards when it comes to adopting technology and advancing the way they do things.
00:04:36
Speaker
And so it was really compelling to jump into a market where we can have a big impact.
00:04:40
Speaker
And so I took a position with an organization that was called Stat Doctors.
00:04:44
Speaker
It was a telemedicine company, but they were running the same business model as Teladoc.
00:04:49
Speaker
I realized an opportunity that hospitals were going to need a solution to accelerate their virtual care strategy.
00:04:55
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And it needed to be a solution that didn't have a physician network attached to it that ultimately ends up being competitive.
00:05:01
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And so I recruited a team member from Stat Doctors to do it with me.
00:05:06
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And I left, I gave notice, I had a non-compete, I waited out my time, I spent about a year on the ops side of a VC firm and then moved into another startup called CampusLogic.
00:05:16
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And then I left my full-time job in November of 2014.
00:05:20
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My wife was 9 months pregnant with our second child, which... Just side note, anyone who is thinking about starting a business, there's no better time than when your wife is expecting.
00:05:30
Speaker
I think she told me, can I buy Christmas presents first?
00:05:32
Speaker
And then you can do whatever you want to
Leadership Tension and Investor Support
00:05:34
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do.
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She's incredibly supportive.
00:05:36
Speaker
So I left and we started the business in early 2015.
00:05:42
Speaker
We got our first customers in midway through that year, July of 2015, give or take, and scaled really quickly from like $0 to $2 million run rate over the course of 24 months.
00:05:52
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And then I got introduced to Kurt at Kickstart, and we raised our seed round, closed that in December of 2016.
00:05:58
Speaker
So $0 to $2 million in about a 24-month period.
00:06:02
Speaker
and had had a CFO join.
00:06:04
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The first thing he did was do a cohort analysis and realized that these small customers, they churn at a very high level.
00:06:10
Speaker
Retention was not great.
00:06:12
Speaker
And in recognizing this, we made some pretty swift changes in the business.
00:06:15
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Talking with Kurt, we decided to do a layoff to make sure that we could right-size our burn.
00:06:20
Speaker
And in that transition, our growth slowed pretty substantially.
00:06:24
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End of 2019, we ended up doing another layoff.
00:06:27
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We grew from about 2 million to 2.5 million by the end of 2019.
00:06:31
Speaker
And recognizing the need to be a little even more focused, we moved further upstream.
00:06:34
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We did another layoff.
00:06:36
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And then 2020 has been truly an explosive year from a growth perspective.
00:06:41
Speaker
Brett, thank you so much.
00:06:42
Speaker
That's some really great background.
00:06:44
Speaker
Kurt, Brett mentioned having you guiding him through some layoffs.
00:06:48
Speaker
I'd love your perspective on that, going in, guiding him through that.
00:06:52
Speaker
What was that situation like and what was your perspective?
00:06:56
Speaker
I was actually on vacation in Oregon for a weekend and I got a call from Brett.
00:07:01
Speaker
And Brett doesn't usually call on weekends.
00:07:05
Speaker
And so I knew it was either really amazing news or not so good news.
00:07:10
Speaker
And as it turns out, it was not so good news.
00:07:12
Speaker
Not only was the cash position in the company very tenuous, but there was some significant disagreement that was developing on the leadership team, including with Brett's co-founder,
00:07:24
Speaker
that was creating quite a bit of tension.
Impact of a Co-Founder Leaving
00:07:27
Speaker
And so I made the decision after we returned home from Oregon that I'd fly down to Arizona and spend a couple of days with Brett and his team.
00:07:35
Speaker
And as it turns out, my visit was coinciding with a board meeting we were preparing to have.
00:07:41
Speaker
And so it was kind of a 48 hours, all hands on deck exercise.
00:07:45
Speaker
of figuring out not only what we would need to do for the company to make it through some tough times financially, but also how we were going to deal with the tension on the team.
00:07:58
Speaker
Okay, that sounds really intense.
00:07:59
Speaker
How did you deal with the tension?
00:08:01
Speaker
Well, as the situation played out, it became clear that it was tension that probably couldn't be resolved by simply getting everyone together and talking things through and agreeing on a plan forward.
00:08:18
Speaker
Unfortunately, it ended up being a circumstance where we had to make one of two choices about how the company would be run going forward, which was an extremely difficult decision to make in the moment.
00:08:34
Speaker
But it was one that we had no choice collectively, but to make together.
00:08:40
Speaker
It ended up being not a consensus point of view, but
00:08:43
Speaker
But as an investor, this is one of those circumstances where when you're not in the day-to-day, sometimes the benefit of being slightly distant from the detail can put you in a position to inform those kinds of decisions that can be somewhat beneficial, although hard in their own ways, because you don't get to see everything that went into a circumstance as you find it.
00:09:10
Speaker
Thank you.
00:09:10
Speaker
And Brett, for you, really tense situation.
00:09:13
Speaker
Was it helpful to have someone from the outside there?
00:09:16
Speaker
That's a great question.
00:09:17
Speaker
You know, in hindsight, it was necessary.
00:09:22
Speaker
And the reality is, up until the night I called Kurt, this individual and I had never had a disagreement, which is a problem, right?
00:09:31
Speaker
When you think about when you're working through something, when you're building something, conflict arises.
00:09:35
Speaker
And if you don't address it, it bubbles up.
00:09:37
Speaker
And so I'm sure there were things that I had done or was doing that were frustrating.
00:09:43
Speaker
But it reached an impasse where it had bubbled up to a level where this other individual was done communicating.
00:09:47
Speaker
They didn't want to have any interactions from that point forward.
00:09:50
Speaker
And so having Kurt come in to help navigate through that was invaluable, frankly.
00:09:55
Speaker
It ultimately made the difference between the company being a going concern and not.
Aligning Co-Founder Goals
00:10:02
Speaker
And Kurt, Brett referenced some difficult conversations and things you had to guide him through.
00:10:07
Speaker
I'm assuming some of those happened around the rift.
00:10:09
Speaker
Can you talk about some of the consequences for the company of that breakup and that situation?
00:10:16
Speaker
All members of any team develop relationships across the company.
00:10:23
Speaker
And so when anyone leaves, it can be difficult and painful.
00:10:27
Speaker
When it's a co-founder, it can be that much more painful.
00:10:30
Speaker
Brett always knew that I fundamentally cared about him and that when I told him something difficult that I thought he needed to hear and act upon, that it was not a personal attack.
00:10:47
Speaker
It was not about trying to demean him or tear him down.
00:10:52
Speaker
It was about trying to help.
00:10:54
Speaker
And I actually believe that having gone through those incredibly difficult times together, we're actually significantly closer now than we were before.
00:11:06
Speaker
It's kind of a trope to say that, but I believe in our case, it's absolutely true.
00:11:10
Speaker
And I believe for the members of the e-visit team that went through the entire experience and are still there, the same thing is true.
00:11:19
Speaker
Hard times cause people to either come together or to fracture.
00:11:25
Speaker
And the team at eVisit is very united.
00:11:31
Speaker
And fortunately, we're now in times where it's also quite successful.
00:11:35
Speaker
As Brett said, that was far from a certainty.
00:11:38
Speaker
But I think the company is quite strong now.
00:11:42
Speaker
And the conversations that Brett and I had that helped navigate through those hard times, I think were successful and hopefully strengthened it.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Kurt.
00:11:54
Speaker
And I know you've often described that experience as sort of, it felt like you were going to war together.
00:11:59
Speaker
And Brett, I'd love to know, is that how you felt?
00:12:02
Speaker
And how do you feel that this experience impacted your founder-investor relationships?
00:12:07
Speaker
I think what he said was an understatement.
00:12:09
Speaker
I mean, there was... I don't want to say it was 18 months, but it very likely was 18 months where Kurt and I spoke every single day.
00:12:17
Speaker
And some days, it was just him reaching out to be like, Hey, how are you doing?
00:12:20
Speaker
What's on your mind?
00:12:21
Speaker
What's going on?
00:12:22
Speaker
Where are you at?
00:12:24
Speaker
Finding the right capital partner early on, and Kurt's become so much more than that, is important.
00:12:31
Speaker
We had competitors in the market and it was thin ice all around.
00:12:35
Speaker
And being able to have a sounding board and someone who you could go to and just get things off your chest, it's difficult to open up like that because on the one hand, Kurt Invest and he's a partner.
00:12:47
Speaker
On the other hand, I had a board and Kurt was my boss.
00:12:51
Speaker
And he created an environment that was, it was just very easy to be able to approach him and ask for advice to someone who'd been in my shoes before, who joined an organization as a young CEO, who'd helped to navigate through some tenuous times in those organizations and be able to get the feedback that a CEO needs to hear.
00:13:08
Speaker
But it was a pretty rocky time for a couple of years there.
00:13:13
Speaker
Brett, so obviously great to have someone there to help you, but I'd also just love to know, and for everyone listening, what could they take away from that?
00:13:20
Speaker
What were things you did well?
00:13:21
Speaker
What
Choosing Supportive Partners and Team
00:13:22
Speaker
were things you wish you had handled differently leading up to the situation so that we can use them as takeaways?
00:13:27
Speaker
I think one of the things that it highlighted for me most was the importance of identifying what co-founders' goals are.
00:13:35
Speaker
I've always been focused on building something that changes the world.
00:13:38
Speaker
And I don't mean for that to sound trite, but to create a massive impact in a market that needs it.
00:13:44
Speaker
I strongly believe the financial outcome comes with that if I do it successfully.
00:13:50
Speaker
But I think we just had diverging goals.
00:13:53
Speaker
They wanted to build a meaningful company, but just different goals.
00:13:58
Speaker
Kurt, I'd love your perspective as an investor.
00:14:00
Speaker
When you're looking at early leadership teams, what advice do you have for them in setting that up?
00:14:06
Speaker
Because often you see people who want to found a company with their best friend.
00:14:10
Speaker
Good idea, bad idea?
00:14:12
Speaker
I would say founding a company with your best friend is generally a bad idea.
00:14:18
Speaker
It is difficult with the hard decisions that will have to be made inevitably throughout the course of a company's development to not potentially sacrifice a friendship or at least stress it significantly.
00:14:35
Speaker
And it's kind of unfair, honestly, to either party in that relationship for what might be the most important thing in their association, which is the friendship, to be put at risk by starting a company.
00:14:49
Speaker
So I wouldn't say that it's a hard and fast rule, that it shouldn't happen.
00:14:54
Speaker
But I do believe it reinforces a larger point, which is knowing that the co-founders of the company and the early management team are aligned on what they're trying to build.
00:15:07
Speaker
how quickly they want to build it, how much resource they feel it's going to take in orders of magnitude to do so, what types of skills will need to be added to the team.
00:15:18
Speaker
Do they want a quick sale?
00:15:19
Speaker
Do they want to run it to something large?
00:15:22
Speaker
General alignment on those points matters, especially at our stage because we are investing so early that it's a very significant bet on the team and the team's ability to do it together.
00:15:36
Speaker
Brett, you were talking, you kind of had some early indicators that you weren't aligned.
00:15:40
Speaker
You mentioned maybe that you didn't have any disagreements, that you didn't really have certain conversations.
00:15:45
Speaker
Looking back, what would you do differently?
00:15:49
Speaker
There needs to be a CEO who's setting the vision.
00:15:53
Speaker
That CEO needs to be collaborative.
00:15:55
Speaker
They need to have the skills to bring people together.
00:15:58
Speaker
It's important to be able to advance the vision and to let it evolve.
00:16:03
Speaker
A CEO isn't there to have an iron fist, but it's to bring people together around a common goal.
00:16:09
Speaker
And to Kurt's point, I feel like at some point you're bound to have differing opinions and someone needs to be able to say, yep, one of the values that you visit is we agree or disagree and then we unite and commit.
00:16:21
Speaker
And if you can't unite and commit, it's time to put your badge on the table.
00:16:24
Speaker
That's a hard thing to do, but it really is about finding someone who can bring people together and push the vision forward.
00:16:31
Speaker
I think that's really great.
00:16:32
Speaker
And I also want to know what are things you did correctly?
00:16:35
Speaker
What would you do again next time?
00:16:41
Speaker
You would.
00:16:43
Speaker
You'd choose me again, Brett.
00:16:44
Speaker
Come on.
00:16:47
Speaker
I mean, I set that right up for you, Brett.
00:16:49
Speaker
That should have been an easy one.
00:16:51
Speaker
I'm thinking like pre-Curt, like as I think about the things that we did right, we established vision, mission, and values very early on in the company.
00:17:01
Speaker
Those are the operating rules, how you attract talent, how you decide which talent stays and which talent goes.
00:17:08
Speaker
It's always very difficult when talent has to go and team members have to leave and they are aligned to those things.
00:17:13
Speaker
And those are really hard decisions to make.
00:17:16
Speaker
We did focus a lot on the team.
00:17:18
Speaker
And when we went to raise capital, that was a big decision.
00:17:21
Speaker
We had a couple of different options.
00:17:23
Speaker
And ultimately, when we sat around the table as a team to discuss it, Kickstart and Kurt specifically, there were a few things that stood out.
00:17:30
Speaker
One, he had a background in healthcare.
00:17:32
Speaker
He had run a health system in Eugene.
00:17:35
Speaker
Two, he had been an operator, which was important to me because I started the company when I was 28.
00:17:41
Speaker
So I had big dreams and big aspirations, but there was a lot I didn't know.
00:17:46
Speaker
There's still a lot I don't know.
00:17:47
Speaker
And three, and most importantly, was the person.
00:17:51
Speaker
Because through everything that's happened, Kurt and I have had some very difficult conversations, but it's been done in a way that's been extremely supportive.
00:17:59
Speaker
And so I think just choosing the right partners, the right team members...
Personal Relationships' Role in Startup Success
00:18:05
Speaker
At some points, I think Kurt and I both probably thought, is this going to work out?
00:18:09
Speaker
And ultimately, it was going to be up to the team and the people to make it happen or not.
00:18:13
Speaker
And then to pivot if it wasn't the right market or product or whatever that might be.
00:18:18
Speaker
And so you ultimately do need to rely on the people who are around the table.
00:18:23
Speaker
I love the reinforcement of the message of just being really careful about who you surround yourself with, making sure you have mentors and advisors who are helpful, and also your willingness to be vulnerable and transparent.
00:18:34
Speaker
That is so important.
00:18:36
Speaker
And we just cannot reiterate that enough on this podcast or in any sort of medium or thing where we're able to talk about it.
00:18:42
Speaker
But thank you for sharing that.
00:18:44
Speaker
Fast forward, we've made it through 2020.
00:18:46
Speaker
The company is thriving and we have a lot of good things that have come out of this.
00:18:51
Speaker
I'd love to know something that you're just really proud of and really excited about.
00:18:56
Speaker
I'm proud of the team.
00:18:57
Speaker
We're at a spot now where last year we grew 600%.
00:19:01
Speaker
We're on target to more than double growth again this year.
00:19:05
Speaker
And for the team members that have navigated through that, for me, it's most rewarding that they've been able to see the benefit of the time and energy spent.
00:19:13
Speaker
Because there really was... There was a period of two, two and a half years there where we were working our butts off.
00:19:20
Speaker
There were no...
00:19:21
Speaker
nights or weekends or days.
00:19:22
Speaker
It was just a continuous grind where we weren't seeing the results.
00:19:26
Speaker
And so it's been a really interesting journey.
00:19:29
Speaker
And the sick part is I'll do it again.
00:19:32
Speaker
Knowing the pain that's coming at me, knowing something always happens.
00:19:37
Speaker
There was a period of a couple of weeks there where I didn't sleep, just night terrors, but you push through it and you become a better human being.
00:19:47
Speaker
because of it.
00:19:48
Speaker
And 2021 is set to be another incredible year for eVisit with a lot of interesting growth.
00:19:54
Speaker
But without the other experiences, it's hard to fully appreciate what it takes to get there.
Optimism for eVisit's Future
00:20:00
Speaker
Well, I am thrilled for you and I'm thrilled for your team.
00:20:02
Speaker
That is so exciting.
00:20:04
Speaker
Kurt, what are you excited about?
00:20:07
Speaker
I'm excited that healthcare is finally figuring out what eVisit has to offer.
00:20:13
Speaker
and that people don't have to go into offices and go through the bureaucracy of having to be seen in person for simple things.
00:20:22
Speaker
The technology that's been available for a long time is now going to make healthcare so much easier to access and better in quality.
00:20:31
Speaker
So it's fun to see the mission that we started on together years ago finally beginning to really take in a market
00:20:41
Speaker
You'd never wish for a pandemic to make something like that happen.
00:20:45
Speaker
But I think the result will be permanent change in the way we all receive health care for the better.
00:20:52
Speaker
Thank you.
00:20:52
Speaker
Just like you'd never wish for a rift or the tension that Brett went through to make an amazing company happen.
00:20:58
Speaker
But here we are and there are amazing things coming from it.
00:21:01
Speaker
I've said amazing 50 times already, but it really is so amazing.
00:21:05
Speaker
And I'm so excited.
00:21:06
Speaker
And Brett, I have one final question for you.
00:21:09
Speaker
And that is, I would love to know what's an effective practice you've implemented in your work or personal life that you think has had a great impact on your success?
00:21:19
Speaker
My wife and I do date night every Saturday night.
00:21:22
Speaker
And I think I'm always surprised, actually, when we go through capital raise processes, that venture firms and capital partners don't ask more about the relationship you have with your significant other.
00:21:33
Speaker
If you don't have the support at home, it's really hard, really hard to dive in at work.
00:21:38
Speaker
And so for me, I can't fully show up at work if things in my personal life aren't on track.
00:21:44
Speaker
So there's really two things.
00:21:45
Speaker
One,
00:21:46
Speaker
We try to make sure that we do family dinner every night, except for date night.
00:21:50
Speaker
And then the second is my wife and I get a babysitter every Saturday night.
00:21:54
Speaker
And we leave the kids and we go out and just spend time just one-on-one.
00:22:01
Speaker
I overuse... Also, speaking of amazing, I also overuse a phrase, I love that, but I really love that.
00:22:06
Speaker
I think that's so great.
00:22:08
Speaker
Kurt, do you have anything to add?
00:22:10
Speaker
I don't.
00:22:11
Speaker
Brett, I think, has very nicely stated how stressful it can be to build a company.
00:22:16
Speaker
We've talked about this on multiple podcasts in the past.
00:22:20
Speaker
The odds are so stacked against your success.
00:22:25
Speaker
that things that will be outside of the purview of the company that could make things more difficult are things that you want to avoid for sure.
00:22:36
Speaker
So if your relationships are healthy and you've got support from those that love you and care about you, you will have to rely upon it over and over and over again.
00:22:48
Speaker
So it's invaluable when it's there.
00:22:51
Speaker
I really appreciate that.
00:22:52
Speaker
We've had some really great insights throughout this whole conversation.
00:22:55
Speaker
Thank you both so much for spending the time with us today.
00:22:58
Speaker
It's been wonderful to talk with you.
00:23:00
Speaker
And of course, thank you for listening as we dive deep into what it takes to create the perfect pitch.
00:23:05
Speaker
If you want to learn more about our investor, Kurt Roberts from Kickstart, for our founder, Brett Larson and his team at eVisit, we'll have a link to the company and a longer bio in our show notes at kickstartfund.com.
00:23:15
Speaker
You can listen to more episodes of Perfect Pitch wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:23:19
Speaker
And if you like what you're learning, leave us a reviewer rating.
00:23:22
Speaker
We'll be back next time with more insights from entrepreneurs and the investors who fund them.
00:23:27
Speaker
So be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a thing.