Ben Dilts [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bendilts/], Karl Sun [https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlsun/], and Dave Grow [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davegrow/] are the founding team behind Lucid Software [https://lucid.co/], one of the most successful SaaS companies to emerge from Utah. From a scrappy student-built prototype to a global platform with tens of millions of users, Lucid redefined how teams collaborate visually in the cloud.

Ben built the first version of Lucidchart while still at BYU. Karl, an early Google product leader, saw the future of collaborative software and joined as an early advisor and executive. Dave left Bain for what was supposed to be a six-month stint that turned into a decade-plus journey leading the company as CEO.

In this episode, they break down the Lucid journey from early product insight to scaling a generational company and shaping the Utah tech ecosystem.

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00:00 The broken tools that sparked Lucid.
05:20 Building the prototype on nights and weekends.
10:30 Thousands of users in weeks.
22:10 The round that got away.
28:00 Betting the firm on Lucid’s Series A.
34:30 The $100M decision that almost didn’t happen.
42:00 Hiring only “great,” never “good enough.”
58:30 Core values that scaled to 1,000+ employees.
01:06:20 Staying in the weeds as a CEO.
01:14:40 Speed as a competitive advantage at scale.
01:22:00 Why most companies underestimate how long winning takes.
01:29:10 From scrappy underdog to market leader.
01:36:30 Catching the next wave: AI and the future of software.

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Ben Dilts [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bendilts/] is the co-founder of Lucid and the architect behind Lucidchart, which he built from scratch while still at BYU after spotting a massive gap in team collaboration. Nearly two decades later, he remains deeply embedded in the product and code, driving Lucid’s technical vision and pushing the frontier of collaborative software.

Karl Sun [https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlsun/] is the co-founder and former CEO of Lucid, and an early Google product leader who helped pioneer cloud-based collaboration tools. He joined Lucid in its earliest days, helping turn a student project into a global SaaS company while instilling a culture of excellence and talent density.

Dave Grow [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davegrow/] is the CEO of Lucid, who joined from Bain for a short-term experiment and ended up helping build a generational SaaS company. He scaled the business from early traction to global scale, bringing a rare combination of operational rigor and deep product intuition.

Gavin Christensen [https://www.kickstart.com/team-members/gavin-christensen] founded Kickstart in 2008, establishing the region’s first seed-stage venture fund. He has since backed many of Utah’s most successful technology companies, helping shape the Mountain West into a nationally recognized startup ecosystem.

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Kickstart [https://www.kickstart.com/] is the Mountain West’s most experienced and active early-stage venture capital fund. Kickstart provides pre-seed & seed funding to ambitious tech founders across Utah & Colorado with a focus on AI, B2B SaaS, and frontier tech.

See Kickstart’s full investment portfolio here [https://www.kickstart.com/portfolio].

The Lucid Story | Building a Category-Defining SaaS Company with Ben Dilts, Karl Sun, & Dave Grow

Jeron Paul [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeron-paul-35824/] is a 4x founder and a defining entrepreneur in the Utah ecosystem. Most recently, Jeron was the Co-founder & CEO of Spiff, the leading incentive compensation platform which he successfully sold to Salesforce in one of the most strategic acquisitions in the space. Before Spiff, Jeron founded and sold Boardlink, Scalar, and CapShare.

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00:00 Breaking into VC by selling a 401k and working for free.

06:30 Learning what not to do from dysfunctional venture cultures.

19:40 How to double your price when a giant tries to lock you up.

26:50 Why "Founder Mode" requires being in the technical weeds.

34:10 Identifying your acquirer on Day 1.

44:30 Why a small first exit is the secret to a massive second home run.

01:03:15 Why UX is a CEO-level concern, not a department.

01:15:20 The "Infinite Scale" framework for evaluating your management team.

01:21:40 The ultimate success metric.

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Gavin Christensen [https://www.kickstart.com/team-members/gavin-christensen] founded Kickstart in 2008, establishing the region’s first seed-stage venture fund.

You can follow Gavin on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gavinchristensen/].

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Kickstart [https://www.kickstart.com/] is the Mountain West’s most experienced and active early-stage venture capital fund. Kickstart provides pre-seed & seed funding to ambitious tech founders across Utah & Colorado with a focus on AI, B2B SaaS, and frontier tech.

See Kickstart’s full investment portfolio here [https://www.kickstart.com/portfolio].

The Spiff Story | Why the Best Founders are Knife Fighters with Jeron Paul

Every entrepreneur is trying to solve a problem with their startup. To prove you're the person for the job, how do you become an expert yourself? We're talking with an entrepreneur who has accomplished just that. Join us in today's conversation with Alex Shamir, Co-Founder at Yofi, and investor Tanner Potter of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) as we bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

How Alex's experience at Nike and Apple drove her interest in tackling data integrity and policy abuse in e-commerce

The difference between understanding the problem your startup is solving and being obsessed with it

Why entrepreneurs should trust their gut, iterate quickly, and make hard decisions, like firing when necessary, to drive success

If investors consider the age of an entrepreneur when investing

Kickstart [http://kickstart.com/] is the Mountain West’s most experienced and active early-stage venture capital fund. Kickstart provides pre-seed & seed funding to ambitious tech founders across Utah & Colorado with a focus on AI, B2B SaaS, and frontier tech.See Kickstart’s full investment portfolio here [https://www.kickstart.com/portfolio].

Perfect Pitch with Alex Shamir: Owning Your Expertise

Running a startup is like building a car while you're driving. We're talking with an entrepreneur who does it all while staying buckled in. Join us in today's conversation with Wade Anderson, President and COO of Elements, and investor Tanner Potter of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) as we bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

Starters and joiners: why you don't need to be a founder to be an entrepreneur

The steps Wade took to determine whether Elements had product-market fit

How investors look at product retention and usage data when evaluating a company

Details on Wade's feedback strategy and how it helps him remain self-aware



The Tactical Entrepreneur's Playbook: A Conversation with Wade Anderson, President and COO of Elements

Startup sales—the phrase alone is enough to stress a founder out. We're bringing in two experts who will help unlock the secret to sales success. Join us in today's conversation with Aaron McReynolds and Ryan Harris, co-founders of Alysio, and investor Kat Kennedy of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) as we bring you both sides of a perfect pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

How Alysio nailed down big customers early on in their startup journey and their advice to founders struggling with customer acquisition

The components that make a good sales organization

Common blind spots that trip up sales teams

Why Kat is so excited about Alysio's financial model and how entrepreneurs can improve their company's model



Elevating Startup Sales: A Conversation with Aaron McReynolds and Ryan Harris, Co-Founders of Alysio

Can VCs be founders too? We're talking with Kickstart's founding partners to understand how Kickstart…was kickstarted. Join us in today's conversation with investors Gavin Christensen, Alex Soffe, and Dalton Wright of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West), as we bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

The slow grind of Kickstart's everyday life in the early days

Why no one took Utah VCs seriously and why that has changed

Low points in Kickstart's history and how the team survived

What is next in Kickstart's story…



Kickstart's Founding Story: A Conversation with Gavin Christensen, Alex Soffe, and Dalton Wright, Kickstart's Founding Partners

We're breaking our regular format with a new kind of episode, with a founder who is serving some spicy opinions on how an entrepreneur can succeed. Join us in today's conversation with Taylor Margot, Founder and CEO of Keys, and investor Tanner Potter of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) as we bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about the following "hot takes":

Why Taylor believes founders should stop listening to advice from investors (yes, this is on a podcast from investors to entrepreneurs!)

Tanner's suggestion for founders to list the top three reasons why their businesses will die on their pitch decks

Whether or not founders actually research the VCs they're talking to (and if it matters!)

Why VCs want to invest in entrepreneurs deeply embedded in a space rather than "trend-preneurs"

Hot Takes: Entrepreneur Vs. Venture Capitalist

We're welcoming a new voice to the show! This Kickstart investor started his career at powerhouses like Vivint and Nike. Today, he's a product-market fit expert investing in tech-obsessed founders across the Mountain West. Join us in our conversation with investors Tanner Potter and Kat Kennedy of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) for a special episode of Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

How product has impacted Tanner and Kat's careers—and how that experience manifests in their investing habits

Advice to founders on creating their pitch decks and the importance of storytelling

Why Kickstart didn't hire Tanner the first time he applied (awkward)

How product and sales have shaped the Mountain West ecosystem



How Product is the Untold Storyteller: A Conversation with Tanner Potter, a Kickstart Investor

We talk a lot about how to grow your startup on this show. But once you've mastered the startup part, how do you ensure you don't get left behind as a leader? Join us in today's conversation with Dave Grow, CEO of Lucid Software, and investor Gavin Christensen of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) as we bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

Why Dave was compelled to apologize to the first person he managed at Lucid Software

How Dave developed the habit to "give away his legos"

When it's valuable to hire specialists versus generalists

What mistakes Gavin has seen founders make that prohibit them from growing with their company



Don't Be Outgrown by Your Startup: A Conversation with Dave Grow, CEO of Lucid Software

It's easy to get caught up in defining your startup with industry buzz words. We're speaking with a founder who is fighting against being placed in a box. Join us in today's conversation with Riley Hughes, Founder & CEO of Trinsic, and investor Dalton Wright of Kickstart (a VC firm for startups in Utah, Colorado, and the Mountain West) as we bring you both sides of a Perfect Pitch. In this episode, we'll talk about:

Kickstart's announcement on opening an office in Denver this summer

What digital identity means and how it impacts you and your privacy

How Riley transitioned from a scooter handlebar startup to sovereign identity

Why entrepreneurs shouldn't worry about being the "pioneer problem-solver" in a market

Why many founders shy away from being labeled as a Web3 company

Decoding Digital Identity, a Conversation with Riley Hughes, Founder & CEO of Trinsic

Karen Zelnick's Show

Origin stories of legendary founders and companies in the Mountain West.

Karen Zelnick

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