Transcript
Speaker: Alright, so good afternoon everybody and welcome to China Tourism Tuesdays. My name is Charl Albertyn and it is currently 2pm on Tuesday 4th of February.
Speaker: Good morning, everybody. My name is Michael Jones and I'm speaking from Amsterdam. Great, so Michael, our ah topic we want to talk about today, which is maybe quite applicable, given the the crazy stuff that's been happening in the tourism space in the last, I think it was a month or so, with the Jeju Airlines, you know, that horrible crash that happened, and then also Wang Xing, the the Chinese celebrity that somehow managed to get kidnapped and trafficked to Myanmar.
Speaker: All of which caused a lot of, you know, a lot of fallout in the Chinese outbound tourism industry for their, their favorite destinations, which is frankly, it's, it's Korea and it's Thailand. So yeah, let's, maybe we could talk a bit about just your experience and, you know, our experience at Create Consulting of, of doing crisis comms in the China market.
Speaker: Absolutely. It was really interesting what happened with ah the Chinese celebrity that was abducted. I found it quite a good case study.
Speaker: i mean in the end i mean so so for those who don't necessarily follow the story a chinese celebrity yeah He was abducted, taken to Myanmar, but then he was released and and safely so, and ah no bodily harm or anything like that. um they was It didn't get terribly out of control, um but the backlash from the Chinese outbound tourism industry was swift and very strong.
Speaker: to to my understanding i mean there's something like ten thousand ten thousand people cancelled their trips to Thailand. yeah And interestingly, like out of the charter flights, so like third be tour operator group flights, city charter flights were canceled in one day. I mean, that's that's just a huge, huge number. And it looks like it was more for again it looks like there was more cancellations amongst ah group tours, which again is predominantly more of the older travelers, so very, very risk averse. um It seems that FIT travelers were less affected, um younger people, they kind of also read between the lines that this is
Speaker: not like a major catastrophe or anything like that Thailand saw overall a pretty safe destination to go to. um But yes, it just shows again the the yeah the kind of the the contradiction of working with Chinese outbound tourism at the moment so and because of the slowing economy and still from the post pandemic situation. um Group tours are so definitely stronger than FIT coming out of china right now
Speaker: again more populated with older people. And that's that's a good business to be in. If you're attracting older people in groups, that that's really a good business to be in right now because that's the strongest, well, the strongest ah economics of outbound tourism at the moment from China. But on the flip side, these are the people that are the most risk averse.
Speaker: so if it is yeah this just was a great example of how this can really hurt tourism destinations bottom line at the end of the day due to these kind of situations. And so yeah, it'd be great to chat a little bit about like how to get around it, how to how to deal with it. um I mean, obviously, things have changed significantly in the crisis communications industry itself. I mean, it it always was um and has always been one of the main or a very strong pillar of traditional public relations PR. And um in the past, I remember um I'm talking about many years ago when it was just like print media
Speaker: was everything was out in the print media when a crisis hits you'd have your holding statement everybody was on edge everybody had to be on call twenty four seven ready to react updates um through traditional press releases to the print media what is the latest status and you're updating that all the time you had to identify me.
Speaker: all these
Speaker: their destinations or companies, would already have their crisis management ah plan in place. They would rehearse it in place. when the crisis hits, um yeah, there's a heck of a lot of activity going on. that, of course, morphed when social media came into play. Just the net was cost way wider. You could get then crises and issues popping up easier because now it's just like and now it's not a journalist writing about it more. It can be just any consumer writing about it, which could trigger these crises. So so obviously the crisis communications industry had to completely adapt to that. So it's not just media anymore. Absolutely. It's not just TV media. It was very much social media. um And then nowadays,
Speaker: um with the social media, so many bits and pieces of what is fake news, what is real news, has become quite a but a complicated animal to to deal with. um I mean, you work quite a lot with media monitoring. i mean right so yeah maybe Maybe you can talk through a little bit, like because that that's really like the foundation of dealing with crisis communications.
Speaker: Yeah, look, um it just from from from you know our work that we work on, you know we work with a lot of developing nations. ah lot of sort of You don't want to call them third world, but it's sort of um destinations that are long haul for Chinese travelers.
Speaker: So I mean, what we try to do is, I mean, it's quite basic. We, we start off with Baidu news monitoring. We, we, we have a system in place that's quite automated where we try to, you know, sort of get a handle of what's being published on Baidu every single day, day to day.
Speaker: but That gives you, I mean, if you can just sort of set it up by keyword, you know, we can get we can get a fairly good overview of what's being put out on Baidu every single day.
Speaker: Obviously, some news sources are more important than others in the, you know, the crazy Chinese, um you know, even just sort of traditional media sphere. There's a lot of small niche publications that that may go a bit fast and loose with the truth. So when we get when we look at the data from the Baidu sort of back end, we do we definitely prioritize, you know, your big state media guys, that still remains the same.
Speaker: um ah yeah and i mean Since since you know what I'm speaking from is kind of my own experience of of dealing with crisis comes with developing nations and longer -hauled destinations.
Speaker: You know, we you develop an eye for these for for the the things that you know the China market is going to sit up and take note of. So, I mean, okay, the disease outbreaks is probably top, top, I mean, and in terms of consciousness and that people are sensitive about in China. So, I mean, ah I think in in South America, there was the Dengue outbreak last year. That was something that was was quite tightly monitored.
Speaker: I know by by several people. ah Just because of that sensitivity around you know coming coming from SARS, coming from COVID, people are not keen on travel where there's disease outbreaks, especially not China. So then there's political instability, um also very sensitive crime, it's a big one.
Speaker: Then it kind of shifts back to things like natural disasters and, you know, maybe traffic accidents. For those, we we are a bit more, you know, we'll we'll monitor them. But unless they start to form a pattern.
Speaker: where there's a consistent pattern of something happening, oh we we we tend to not necessarily escalate it because you know the the the the cost -benefit analysis comes in of, if we go and talk about this even more, and as tragic as many of these accidents are, if we go and talk about this specifically in the Chinese media, you know do we do more harm than good? um Is this is this a you know an act of God that that you know, shouldn't be influencing people's travel decisions. And I think um this kind of links up with another thing we mentioned before, is the importance of travel, of of of two operator relations, in terms of how they shape perceptions about together with the media.
Speaker: 100%, 100%. I mean, I do find it interesting. So with all the different regions that we've worked in, I mean, um so we've worked with the Middle East way, of course, with ah the Israel or of Gaza in Gaza. I mean, that has had a huge, huge impact about concerns of safety and security, whereas areas, certain countries, neighboring countries are
Speaker: 100 % safe. Travelers have just stayed clear of them, just because of the overall day to day bombardments of negative media but stories coming out of, I mean, tragic stories coming out of Gaza, understandably so, but but yes, that's the thing. I mean, then to take it further, like yourself and I are both South African. In the past, there would be some crime-related stories so again safety security, that would definitely um punch the the numbers out of Chinese tourism to um South Africa and Southern Africa. um I mean, I remember also when Ebola broke out in West Africa, Chinese travelers stopped going to south africa
Speaker: for anybody that can look at a map they can see that the distance is significant. um and but But nevertheless, these preconceived ideas ah just plays into the negative factors there. um what One case in particular, I remember in in South America, there was a group of ah Chinese there was a group of chinese ah tourists in a country in South America. And the resort that they were at was actually overtaken by criminal gunmen
Speaker: And um they were taken hostage, not not taken hostage away, but kept in the resort hostage for for about one or two days. And and the there were mainland Chinese in the groups, there were people mostly from Hong Kong, but then also tourists from Taiwan. And what I found amazing about that that that really difficult situation just to make clear in the end it ended well ah for for the tourists but but really tragically a security a local security guard was killed by the gunman um and there was real fears that it was going to get out of hand and and what I found amazing from that situation was that um again there was a particular um Hong Kong travel agency tour operator that was that was handling the the majority of the groups, and there were one or two and incredibly, incredibly aggressive Hong Kong journalists that were contacting the tour operators all the time, trying to get more information, even pretending to be family members, like pretending to be concerned family members to get more information.
Speaker: And the Hong Kong tour operator in particular handled the situation brilliantly. They really, they handled it so professionally. They they they they stuck to their key messages. They they stuck to um the information they're putting out that they absolutely did not guess second guess. that didn't play to hearsay at all. And um they really stopped those very aggressive journalists um that were using quite unethical ah methods to try and get information. They really stopped them in their tracks. then, I mean, everybody was
Speaker: quite a little bit lucky and everything did turn out well. But that for me was a great example of how um tour operators can play an incredibly important role um in these situations. um And and so I think that's something that we've also all learned from. So I'd also like to like hear from you a little bit. and when When there are potential issues management or potential crises coming up
Speaker: i mean what What do you think is one of the better ways to find out fairly quickly if it's a real issue for artbound Chinese tourists from China or not?
Speaker: Well, okay, so we will we typically see you know how how the how wide the coverage is. First of all, as I said, you will wait coverage from the big official state media more heavily.
Speaker: then we will kind of do a sweep of of your dou yin, your kuaishou, your shao hongshou to see how widespread um is this perception. What we also then do is we can, if necessary, we can do some further in that analytics with our analytics platforms to see this the sentiment at the current moment about the destination.
Speaker: Then what we will do is if this is something that you know does fall into those high those high priority kind of topics. be it disease outbreaks or political instability, um those big ones, ah usually we will consult with the client to have a, you know, and if if it's the worst case scenario, to at least have a whole holding statement ready to just fire that off to just to kind of, you know, put put a stopgap in the discourse at that at but that point.
Speaker: before we then go on and and prepare you know a more detailed statement and a more detailed response to the crisis. which will then you know be be also cross posted onto social media. And I find that in social media because it's so reactive and because it's so fast paced, we tend to not engage very, very heavily um with non -official accounts we and not to maybe just more observe the sentiment but not react to it because often social media is a flash in the pan um compared to
Speaker: the more official media channels, but we will keep offing on the pulse for that. Then the other the other main thing that I think, um just to add to what you said before, is is ah the two operators, because that's actually where the bottom line lies in the for for for the tourism industry, is will they be canceling groups to the destination, if that's correct? Yeah, 100%, yeah. I mean, that's...
Speaker: but what I think one of the lesser known secrets of the Chinese outbound tourism industry is that inside the network of Chinese outbound tour operators, they cannot keep secrets. um I find that the tour operators, even though you get a lot of tour operators that are huge competitors with one another. Ultimately, they these are all friends and ex -colleagues and contacts, and they share an immense amount of information in WeChat groups, private WeChat groups. I mean, I think every Chinese outbound tour operates, every Chinese travel agent is probably sitting in
Speaker: easily up to 100 different or more WeChat groups with various counterparts in the industry. And they chat, and they chat a lot. um And if one is plugged into those WeChat groups, as our colleagues are in Beijing and Shanghai and Shenzhen and Chengdu, then you just got this incredible wealth of information immediately. It's so like live. It's faster than any of the media. It's faster than anything else. So yeah, I find i find that to be really a silver bullet of sorts in this industry. Because so if there is a potential issue,
Speaker: you can jump into these groups immediately and just ask like, hey, have you heard about this? Have you heard about this? And nine out of 10 times, they haven't even heard about the issue. um And then if it's starting to become a bit of a a moving to like semi -crisis stage, yes, then they absolutely are talking about it. But that's that's just talking about it. And when they do start saying, well, I'm putting
Speaker: thing Then you know you've got a crisis. um and And so I find that yeah it's ah it's a very efficient way. And yeah, it just works really quickly. And and then what's what's also great about being plugged into these various tour operator WeChat groups is also how you respond to them. Because this is also then an opportunity to start educating them about,
Speaker: well so so you're getting information coming very fast and furious from the clients who are overseas in the potential issue area. And then you can share this information with these tour operated groups so you can help kind of educate them at the same time at a fast pace. And then they can move that information onto the customer. So it goes both ways. um So yeah, I find that to be honestly speaking far more
Speaker: importance and efficient way all dealing with the inns and house crisis communication and just only with the traditional media that's that's very That's spot on Michael. funny It's a funny place where PR and sales kind of meet. Because of the of in China, the media and social media, it's not like something can go viral very quickly because often the platforms or the media houses will will sort of weigh up the political consequences or the diplomatic consequences before. It's not perfect free free press by any means. It's it's much more controlled.
Speaker: than even, for example, your Facebooks or your Instagrams. But this is direct. This is fast. This is once they even get a slightest note notion that something isn't right or that something's going to affect their bottom line. And and those communications don't don't get put under any kind of you know scrutiny or anything like that by the the government. This that comes through immediately. So that's a ah very nice early warning system to have with ah with with with the travel trade, as you said.
Speaker: yeah i mean Also, what one of the challenges of dealing with ah the traditional media is um when when there is a full -blown crisis and if the but Chinese state media is also reporting on this, to issue any kind of press release that brings more updated information there's a lot of questions as to the source of this information um It's not like a any marketing agency or PR agency can just issue information and the the state media, again, if it's a serious situation, they're not going to accept this information from necessarily from a PR agency. It really would have to come directly from the other government.
Speaker: where where the issues are taking place. So so there's a lot of vetting and rightly so ah rightly so, because otherwise anybody could just like push out anything and good or bad. um So so that that's also a ah timely process ah to have the credentials in place and things like that. So yeah, it's ah um I mean, this this is the reality of I think any any country or and any market with outbound tourism is um yeah absolutely there there's's absolutely a fantastic opportunities in terms of economic growth and income. but but and mean Crisis communications is obviously the the opposite side of that and of that challenge. and how to manage perceptions and how to reactively deal with it. um Some countries absolutely deal with this better than others.
Speaker: ah some countries and brands obviously much better systems in place they really do have a crisis communications plan in place. They have actually rehearsed it. They've identified all of the stakeholders to be involved. um So yeah, um it's it's it' kind of it's a little bit naive to believe that one doesn't need to have a plan.
Speaker: um it'ss really it's absolutely essential Because at the end of the day, we've seen now with Thailand and all the different examples about how badly yeah loss of revenue can be over something that's actually not that add as a crisis situation. exactly so yeah I mean, thailand Thailand is almost a ah case study in how to do things right with their tourism minister getting on live streams for Chinese social media. But just with this one celebrity and incident,
Speaker: their flight cancellations over that one weekend just popped 150 % off the base of this, which is like you said, it all ended fine. There wasn't there was no major fallout from the there was it was ah It ended fine with four for the celebrity in question. so yeah It's important to have a have a decent plan ready. I was also reading about there's also some FIT travellers in Thailand right now and they actually um
Speaker: they they They're lying to their family. they They're telling their families that they're not in Thailand. They're telling their families that they're somewhere else. ah it just Just that their families can relax. That's a very fit very Chinese problem to have.
Speaker: so yeah Well, anybody with another, I think, is in a similar situation. so oh well i think that that's I think hopefully the the listeners to this can get some information from this that is useful for them. I think it is absolutely important to have crisis communications if if you are in the Chinese outbound.
Speaker: ah tourism industry. Yeah, ah these these factors are are real. And I lastly wanted to ask you, so you're in Shanghai, it's Chinese New Year. ah What does it look like on the streets of Shanghai? and Is it supposed to be required or is it the same same? What's going on there?
Speaker: It is quiet, except for obviously Nanjing pestrian nujing East Pedestrian Street, which is a complete madhouse. I don't know how they channel all those people through there. The Bund is a madhouse. Yeah, the whole country seems to be vacationing here. But it's there's there's more people around um than you know maybe you know eight, 10 years ago in Beijing. I remember was the city was just absolutely empty.
Speaker: But I think there's a good few people, you know especially older the people, and maybe also younger people, given the economy, who are just sort of staying put, maybe even ah doing a bit of extra work um over the new year. you know the The economy is still humming along, you know your your services and so on. Basic stuff is still humming along. So it's a bit more it's a bit less empty than than previous years, um in my experience. OK. Well, interesting. yes i suppose also like
Speaker: suppose also the sum of your shanghai must be Quite a bit more attractive than Beijing. Well, it's definitely less cold, yeah. It's zero, not minus five, which is always a nice thing. My goodness. Hello, everybody. Thank you for your time. And we will be speaking in the next time with episode three of China Tourism Tuesday. Awesome. Thanks, Michael. Have a good day, Sean. Thanks. Thanks, everyone, for listening, and we'll catch you on the next one.
