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China Tourism Tuesday Episode 35
25 Plays1 month ago
In today’s episode of China Tourism Tuesday, we are thrilled to sit down with two industry experts - Alfred Li and Antonio Teijeiro - to dive deep into the most pressing trends shaping China’s tourism landscape, especially as the highly anticipated May 1st holiday approaches. Together, we explore the booming outbound tourism market, breaking down how post-pandemic travel habits have shifted and what travelers are seeking in their international getaways this holiday season. We also unpack the growing role of AI in tourism: from its emergence as executive tour guide agents that streamline trip planning to its impact on marketing strategies, as brands leverage new AI developments to connect with consumers. Additionally, we discuss how GEO development is revolutionizing destination and experience recommendations, tailoring suggestions to travelers’ locations and preferences, and examine the fierce competition among influencers and brands during peak consumer spending periods like the May 1st holiday, where many struggle to stand out in a crowded market.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Episode
00:00:01
Speaker
Good day, everybody, and welcome to the 35th episode of China Tourism Tuesday.
Chinese Outbound Tourism Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
Today, have got Antonio and Alfred in the room with us, and we are going to be chatting about, as you would have guessed, Chinese outbound tourism.
00:00:18
Speaker
Gentlemen. And in this case, it absolutely is, gentlemen. Welcome to the show. And I think we're a good place to start.
Expectations for the May Holidays
00:00:27
Speaker
Friday is the Chinese national May holidays.
00:00:33
Speaker
um Let's start talking about that a little bit, considering it's just around the corner. um what are your From your respective locations and your respective sites on the market, how do you feel about the May holiday? Where do you think most people are going to be traveling? what is it What has complicated it this time around? Let's talk a little bit about the opportunities and challenges of ah the May national holidays.
Challenges for Chinese Holiday Plans
00:01:04
Speaker
why don't i Michael, great to be here. Hello, also Alfred. um Yeah, I think these this May holidays, I think will um the tendency to, you know, COVID times are passed and 2019 records, we can also pass them. that's That is gone.
00:01:25
Speaker
um The only thing, obviously, is the geopolitical situation. I think that's that's the biggest that's the biggest challenge that is happening right now. um being I think there's two factors that determine where Chinese are going to go right now.
00:01:42
Speaker
The first one is obviously the five days, and we'll see that from Alfred's data. It's it's it's very limited time, so obviously they're not going to be traveling long haul.
00:01:53
Speaker
um And also security wise, I always say that security is one of the first first things that that Chinese ask, right? Is this destination safe? And considering the the situation that we have right now, I think that's also going to limit um quite a lot where where the Chinese are going to go. So I think it's it's basically, as I said, we're we're past situation of getting over COVID. We're going to mark new probably new records.
00:02:23
Speaker
But people are going to stay close to close to China or in this area, I would say, in the vicinity. Well, before we continue with also general trends about this, i mean I'd love to ask you, Antonio, a specific to your area of interest, the Spanish-speaking markets.
00:02:45
Speaker
um Have you noticed anything interesting for the May holidays when it comes to Spanish-speaking markets? Well, um let's let's break it down into two, I think. it's One is actually Spain and the other one is LATAM, so Latin America.
Chinese Tourist Trends in Spanish Markets
00:03:00
Speaker
As for Spain, it's very interesting because traditionally May has been the year with, sorry, the month of the year um with the highest number of Chinese tourists coming over. So 2019, I always talk about 2019 because that was the year on the records.
00:03:19
Speaker
um it was only 8% of the total Chinese tourists to Spain that came over in in that month. But in 2024, it was already 13%. So highest level during the year. And in 2025, was actually 12%.
00:03:30
Speaker
So the highest level. think obviously Spain, I mean, it is...
00:03:36
Speaker
it was actually twelve percent so again the highest level um i think obviously spain i mean it is It is, if you're talking about Cheng Lu, you're talking already about 13 hours or 12 hours to go to Madrid. And of course, Beijing, Shanghai longer. So if you have five days, it's a little bit tight.
00:03:58
Speaker
But still, um I think it's still a very interesting destination. I think the month of May actually is interesting also because the the weather in Spain is not too hot. If you come over in June, July, August, especially August, um that is extremely extremely warm. But if you go in in the months before before summer, the temperatures are much better. Also, the 1st is a holiday in Spain, but we don't have those five days like Chinese people do. So I think it's also the country is, ah there's not so many many tourists
00:04:31
Speaker
um it's probably easier to to to visit. So it is for Spain, May is actually, May holidays is actually quite quite an important and important time in in terms of in terms of getting Chinese tourists.
00:04:47
Speaker
The second part is
Connectivity Issues in Latin America
00:04:49
Speaker
is Latin America. Now, obviously the challenge is connectivity, right? We're talking about flights, um there were the It kind has to be like flights probably with layover, maybe 20, 30 hours. So it's very difficult for Latin American countries to to capture Chinese tourists at at that time. um Obviously, there are, and a little bit of a ranking would probably be Mexico, which is, I would say, in in Latin America is the country with highest brand identity within the
00:05:26
Speaker
within that region, then Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and Peru, I think those would be the five top markets. But really, May is not a time for this kind of tourism. So as I say, two different scenarios there.
00:05:44
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i mean i was also reading this morning about how some of the... There were reports, and naturally, these glowing reports about how Chinese Alpine tourism is continuing to grow in strength. And then they mentioned that apparently with ah some of the school holiday scheduling has been changed.
00:06:04
Speaker
that That has brought to the April and May periods closer together that has allowed at least some Chinese citizens to travel for longer periods over this time of the year. And I can imagine, ah especially for countries like like Spain, that that must be super beneficial because, i mean as you rightly pointed out,
00:06:28
Speaker
this is actually probably the best time to be traveling to to Europe, because like you rightly say, yeah yeah nobody wants to be in Northern Europe, or or China for that matter, in August. It is pretty insane. Yeah, but yeah, yeah. i to sense yeah I think you are completely right, Michael. that i mean the Having the three golden weeks is is a great was a great social advancement for for china But now we see that it's it's going towards more towards those customs of of Western countries where during the school vacations, they also try to take holidays off, right?
00:07:09
Speaker
And that allows for more family traveling. So I think as time goes by and as that very rigid three golden weeks starts to be a little bit more flexible, that's that's actually going to be very, very positive also for for Chinese tourists to be able to choose when they want to go. So it's not like everyone has to go during these three weeks.
00:07:32
Speaker
And when you think about it, I mean, it is ah it is a huge stress on on on the the structure, the infrastructure, the travel infrastructure of the of China, right? Everyone goes on vacation.
00:07:43
Speaker
practically at the same time. So I think a flexibilization of of when you go on vacation, that's going to be positive for China, is going to be positive also for for the receiving markets.
00:07:54
Speaker
Yeah, totally. receiving receiving markets yeah so And next I'd like to ask ah Alfred, from your perspective, ah have have you come across any interesting trends for for
AI's Role in Destination Recommendations
00:08:09
Speaker
the May holidays? And then after that, I would absolutely also like to hear from you, Charles, our in-house influence.
00:08:18
Speaker
leader. What things you've seen from KRL and influencers perspective? But um yeah, can we start with you, Alfred, please? So what have you found? What what do you find interesting?
00:08:45
Speaker
definitely will affect the people that travel to that region and also the increase of fuel price and some of the you know the flight cancellation will definitely be affecting my holiday travel to overseas. But in overall, I think that still um and for the shorthold, the travel to, you know, Asia countries is definitely not a problem. And just before we, you know, ah start with this podcast, used the AI viibility report um to to see, you know, to base on the main holiday topic. So I can share a bit of more of the the finding. Well, that's it a the new way of doing a report. That's the first time we start to run this kind of data, but it um I can just introduce a bit of our methodology and you know um
00:10:00
Speaker
and why we think this way. And perhaps that will provide a new perspective for our to see you know how the
00:10:15
Speaker
recommend the the for Chinese travelers. So the... Yeah, yeah so so Alfred, so so yeah, absolutely. ah please Please do tell us more and more about that. And then what we can also do is for the listeners, we can put a link in the program notes to the full report that they can also download and and go through it at their own. But yes, please do tell us more. This sounds interesting.
00:10:41
Speaker
ah Yeah, yeah. So we ah again, this is the first time we start to run this. So still on the testing stage, but I already have quite interesting findings. So, based on the main holiday topic, we have used three questions to give to different Chinese AI and see how they will recommend the destinations. So the three question is what overstay destinations are suitable for a five-day main holiday?
00:11:17
Speaker
ah And the second question is the shorthold outbound travel recommendations for Chinese travelers. and the third question is the uh three to five the high quality overseas trip um itinerary uh so that's the um the pumps uh that we um ask ai chinese ai so there's a five different uh platforms so we have truth one is the the baidu the um
00:11:52
Speaker
x nien And the beddance is top tobao and Alibaba's and So based on these five AI platform's answers, we um have collect all the put the all the destination into three groups. So that tier one is the high AI visibility, and tier two is a stable visibility, and the third is emergence with potential visibility. So the the first school group, the countries include Japan, Thailand, South Korea, Singapore and Malaysia.
00:12:45
Speaker
And the second group including Vietnam, UAE, Indonesia and Turkey.
00:13:10
Speaker
based on into the visibility. So the the more that's been recommended by AI, so this will be in tier one group. that um
00:13:41
Speaker
The preference of the destination we have list the based on the two factors we have based list the five countries we think that's the quite high potential during the May holiday period, which is the Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam and Malaysia.
00:14:23
Speaker
of how why AI have recommended those destinations.
Factors Influencing Chinese Tourists
00:14:28
Speaker
So let's ah come up with five important features. So number one is visa-free policy.
00:14:36
Speaker
And number two is a culture IP, for example, like the K-pop culture or the Japan's animation culture. And the third one is the Chinese language friendly with the high, you know, that Singapore and Malaysia is in the category and value for money.
00:15:02
Speaker
So Vietnam and Thailand, Malaysia is in this category and the safety productions is the um Hong Kong, Singapore and Switzerland in the safety category.
00:15:19
Speaker
So that's the nutshell of what we found when we start to ask AI and you know based on AI's answer to generate the report. There are more of contents probably we can share it in our future podcasts, like what good for the yeah trip re recommendation, what kind of ah
00:15:58
Speaker
style of recommendation based on the different AI platforms. But today we'll just, you know, based on May holiday, focus of more on this.
00:16:15
Speaker
Antonio, please go ahead. Yeah, um just looking at it, it's it's it's the shift that we're seeing in in the way that we We use AI, right? um I'm accustomed to typing, where can I go with a thousand arm euros or what can I do in five days? And then there's kind of like a list of websites that appears and then I have to navigate through that.
00:16:41
Speaker
But the the old SEO right now but not with the new GEO, um it seems like like Alfred has given us, it's a very, very precise list. So the recommendations are, you know, it's not anymore you you still have a little bit of leeway. It seems that really it's like, okay, well, you want to go, you have these ah these three queries, as as Alfred said, okay, these are the places you have to go, Japan, Thailand, South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia.
00:17:11
Speaker
So really, we're websites and and and well the companies in general, tourism destinations, they really have to realize the importance of the shift here and the user experience, right? from From having websites to check, now you're you're basically you're getting recommendations.
00:17:28
Speaker
This is what you can do. I think it's a very big shift in that sense. Yeah, and ah Alfred, i also wanted to ask you, because you've you've done research on this before, um and it was possibly in one of your broad reports, but but if not specifically, if you were to make a guess, like, what what percentage of Chinese outbound travelers for the May holidays will have used AI? And I don't mean, like, just general searches, but, like, a comprehensive approach.
00:17:59
Speaker
search with details of itineraries, budgets, possibly even bookings, things like that. If you were to take a guess, or maybe you don't have to guess, what do you think it would be?
00:18:12
Speaker
Well, well, it's,
00:18:16
Speaker
In general, I think that because current Chinese AI cannot book directly for the customers, so I know that the chat GPT already starts, have not function, but the Chinese AI haven't tried once during the chinese Chinese New Year in this year. And um currently, I haven't seen any Chinese AI start to direct and recommend to
00:18:55
Speaker
to book, but the only just for them provide a link or tell you where you can book, for example, like recommend to to go to say trip or whatever. So that's the kind of current the AI recommend situation. But in in terms of the AI,
00:19:19
Speaker
like if you ask a AI to generate itinerary, that will be quite... ah um ah ah ah put purple But put it this way, the questions we have asked AI, they put a in general itineraries, but it's more conversation. If we ask, kids you know for example, the AI provides three options, and you choose the option two, and you ask more questions, the AI will you know based on the the option tool will provide more information in depth at tenorist um where you should go to a piece of the your interest based on you know sometimes ai if you use ai quite a lot and the ai will understand more about your request and will recommend you know
00:20:21
Speaker
That's one aspect. Another one is
00:20:28
Speaker
the price. For example, the um ah sometimes it depends on different AI. and it Sometimes you know, I recommend on the different price level and, you know, even with the airline, which could be the cheapest airline or which destination during this time would have a better price. So that's the consumer will
00:21:00
Speaker
that a
00:21:05
Speaker
will that information into quite a big factor for their holiday decisions.
00:21:17
Speaker
I think that's for those, you know, this new AI kind of recommendations will affect in the future that we, the travelers will go to.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, Now, I also
Silver Generation & AI in Travel
00:21:38
Speaker
just want... Yeah, please go ahead, Tania. Sorry, um a question for for for Alfred. um genn Gen Z is obviously, I guess it's the the the early adopters, and and they're accustomed to to living with you know their mobile phone and and everything is is online, etc.
00:21:56
Speaker
How is the behavior of of the silver generation? Because the silver generation is becoming a very, it is already a very strong power, let's say, or a very strong segment within tourism.
00:22:08
Speaker
um Is the Chinese chinese silver generation a little bit more or less afraid of change and more willing to listen to the recommendations of of of AI? Or is their behavior with AI?
00:22:28
Speaker
I think even with talking about the older generation, you still get early adopters, some people that are a bit slower with the new technology, and some people will never want to try technology even looked the old people that probably you could find that haven't really used the smartphone.
00:22:56
Speaker
But the the early adopters always be the early adopters. So even with the become older, and so so you you will still find in this group. so if I talk about AI, the the recent um Chinese AI marketing white paper already shows that even with the older generation, still lots of people start to use AI. And especially for the people that, ah ah you know, they
00:23:36
Speaker
don't really good with their smartphones. But once AI is available, we could just ask every question to AI and and rely on ai answers.
00:23:52
Speaker
So that's kind of, you know, the are the people that more rely on AI answers.
00:24:11
Speaker
Very interesting. Thank you. Yeah, good. Yeah, that makes actually a lot of sense. I mean, I suppose even if there's a little bit fear of fear in the beginning, it will make things a heck of a lot more simple for them.
00:24:25
Speaker
I suppose jumping between multiple websites and planning and things like that must be quite challenging as one gets older and older. So yeah, that that sounds really like it makes sense. I just want to i want to come back i want to come back to AI search, but I just want to pivot just ah briefly ah to Shoal.
Influencers During the May Holidays
00:24:50
Speaker
Shoal, can you tell us a little bit of your insights of what is happening in the Chinese outbound influencer market? I mean, this is a holiday. that These are guys are ready to go and check out the new destinations and new products.
00:25:05
Speaker
um Yeah, I'd be quite curious to hear what what's your feeling on the ground when it comes to the influences of China. Yeah, no, Michael, my overwhelming impression of the influencer marketing space right now is that it's it's just ah a bit of a frenzy, to be honest. And I think it's ah it's a bit of a resource allocat allocation problem in that um you have X amount of ah bloggers in China And they might cover a few verticals. So they might, for example, cover travel.
00:25:38
Speaker
But then they'll also cover fitness. They'll also cover maybe um family. like ah They'll be sort of of ah kids and um and like a foot a whole family travel creator or like family products creator.
00:25:50
Speaker
So they'll cover a few different verticals um with their content. And they'll monetize those verticals. um And it seems to me like come ah more or less May through June. These are big. you know You've got 5.1, you've got 6.1, you've got these big consumer um festivals coming up. um You have all these different verticals then jumping on the same pool of influencers to kind of get them to...
00:26:21
Speaker
um carry the product. So it really is a bit of ah a crazy busy season for most creators, such that I think that, you know, the people, the brands that kind of get their way first, because they require the least time investment will be, you know, physical products that can be shipped to the creators' homes. They, you know, they spend ah an afternoon doing the video, reviewing the products, filming the script, um and then it's done.
00:26:50
Speaker
it's that's That's four hours sunk cost into into a video. Then I would say second in line would almost be the you know maybe like a a hotel group um within China or a destination within China or a local um tourism promotion board within China um where they'll maybe do, if the person has, if the creator has a significant sort of travel experience segment to their side. What is side on English? Like their niche, their niche of what they do. um
00:27:29
Speaker
Then, you know, OK, that's fine. That takes maybe a day or two of travel. the The video gets finished. Then the people that are kind of at the back of the line, unfortunately, ah you know your long your long haul international tourism brands, ah if they are at all even invested in the China market, and they have kind of you know gotten their ducks in a row in time to do a 5-1 promotion or like a a summer holidays promotion. So there's ah there's a significant sort of bidding effect and crowding out effect for creators.
00:28:04
Speaker
One thing I have seen that is pretty cool about especially red Note is that as Red Note kind of works and it isn't difficult for red note because it's very political obviously but red note is trying to kind of position itself as you know the the hybrid of instagram and pinterest that will be the first sort of chinese social network you know obviously after um after tick tock but the first pure chinese social network to really go big internationally and so they are onboarding a lot of
00:28:36
Speaker
you know, min um not minor celebs, but you know a variety of of different actors and musicians and so on from the States and from also from South Africa, for example. A very nice case study that I've kind of come across is Tyler.
00:28:50
Speaker
tyler Tyler being our big and latest sort of musical export from South Africa, she has started making quite a bit of content about South Africa.
00:29:04
Speaker
So you will see a few celebrities with ties South Africa begin to be on Red Note and then make content about South Africa.
Influencer Content and Home Country Promotion
00:29:12
Speaker
Whether they're getting paid by South African Tourism Board, I would not bet huge amount of I don't know, to be honest. and Maybe I'm kind of getting out of my skis over here.
00:29:22
Speaker
But ah you are seeing a lot of branding kind of arise organically from creators that are from said country. So I think you know it's tough. i mean China has always been an expensive game to do marketing of any kind in.
00:29:40
Speaker
It's relationship and proximity heavy. If you don't have ah a guanxi or a luzi or a banva to get something done, it's going to be expensive and someone's going to be charging you somewhere. There's going to be a middleman charging you a massive hike up. So that's that's kind of what i wanted to say. Just one final little note on on AI, what something I've been using with a lot of glee is Tianwen from Alibaba.
00:30:08
Speaker
XenWin has this really neat functionality where you can basically do voice input. And you can give it pretty much like a vague description of where you want to go what kind of car you want to get, what kind of food you want to eat. And it will split out booking links to you that you can just say yes or no, which is quite handy. Like the other day, I got ah i got a ah taxi.
00:30:32
Speaker
And I said, OK, keep it ah within 40 RMB, not too expensive. Give me like a newish car, and I want to go to here, and I want to leave now.
00:30:43
Speaker
And that was and it it it gave me a link. It made the booking for me. So that's also something that I would be feeling i'll be feeling a little bit nervous if I was at you know a tour guide, because it seems like a lot of these things are being increasingly automated by AIR. That's my story. Michael, I see you have ah you you have a a hand raised.
00:31:04
Speaker
No, and also just wanted to ask you quickly, like ah out of the influences that you you're personally friends with in in Shanghai and surrounding kind of thing, any indications of ah where these guys might be traveling during the May holidays? like Like, for example, like we've talked in the past quite a bit how ah Russia has become quite a big thing for ah Chinese outbound tourism. but But then at the same time, yeah it seems very popular, but like ah Today I was also reading about, so the headline, I mean, headlines always misleading, right? But the headline was about like like a massive interest from China to go to Russia. But if you looked in the details, the majority of these people were actually talking about going to Vladivostok.
00:31:49
Speaker
on the far far far eastern side of russia very far away from moscow where planes are being cancelled and postponed often due to drones um and and things like that so so i do get the feeling that like that So again, like I do get the feeling that, yes, it's a popular destination, but a very particular part of the country, again, out of safety concerns. But but be that as it may, like any of any of your influence or friends, like ah where are they off to the for the May holidays? I mean, a lot of it is domestic within China, to be honest, just because it's it's fast, it's convenient, it's cheap. um
00:32:34
Speaker
On the other hand, you know, there is one other angle to this, and that is that people will often, if there are influencers and they have a... a travel affiliated sort of niche for their content is that they will monetize, and in some cases quite handsomely, by doing tour groups. Now, this is not a tour group where they're a tour guide. This is just more sort of a come travel with me.
00:32:58
Speaker
um they And they select some of their followers to essentially pay them to travel with them. So that is also something that is interesting to you know as ah as a business model for influencers.
00:33:12
Speaker
And I honestly think that it's ah it's maybe the most productive avenue for for tourism boards to actually work with um people from a certain country with a significant following is to see if there's that there's not a way they can do that such that they can utilize off-peak times when there aren't a thousand different ads floating around that are up for grabs.
00:33:34
Speaker
ah Because these influencers do have off-peak times where they would um know like to do a a trip and they could also monetize like that when there aren't as many ads or when sales are down for their whatever product they're busy selling.
00:33:52
Speaker
natalia please go ahead yeah it's um it's interesting one thing that charles mentioned about the um expansion let me put it this way of um right to be able to to be used in in in other countries um up till recently i would have never thought that xia hong shu except for the fact that china has its own digital ecosystem and if you want to access this market You have to get on board that ecosystem, which includes Xiaongshu.
00:34:25
Speaker
I would have never thought that foreigners would actually or there would be international presence in Xiaongshu. um But in in the hospitality sector, I've noticed this, that the um hotels in China, the rate is being is being, there's a lot of pressure on the rate. Occupancy, not so much. There's still a lot of Chinese tourists that are traveling.
00:34:44
Speaker
they They don't stop traveling, but because of the situation, they are much more value focused. And since a year, year and a half, two years, um hotels are suddenly looking at foreign tourists to bring in much more revenue because a foreign tourist will, they will have a higher spending, right? So um it does work in that sense that now international, there is international ah presence in Xiaongshu to motivate or to create this ah this um this this market. So people coming over here and and spending in China, right? it's not only it's It's not anymore an obligation. You have to go on Xiaongshu because if you go in in other in other Western media, you're never gonna you're not go never going to touch the Chinese consumer. But now it's really a question of many companies here in China realizing, hey, we also need we also need
00:35:41
Speaker
the international tourists. So it is opening up in that sense. It's ah it's an interesting interesting process. Let's actually talk about that a little bit. i mean yeah I wasn't planning on discussing that today, but ah let's talk a little bit about um the inbound tourism of foreigners into China. i mean I'll be honest, um when when China started issuing all these ah like visa-free, war for a limited period of time at least, but visa-free policies for foreigners to coming to China for
00:36:15
Speaker
business and for holidays. I was quite sceptical, must say. And naturally, in the beginning, there were a whole bunch of misleading headlines again about numbers. I mean, people can always interpret numbers as they wish.
00:36:31
Speaker
um But it seems to be really becoming a real thing now. I mean, I was reading about how, like, for example, French people and people from the UK traveling to travelving to China is doubling. Some are increasing, some smaller countries like 200% and things like that, 400% even, fair enough, from a low base. But but nevertheless, it seems to be becoming like quite comprehensive now. I mean, for for you guys sitting there in the mix of it, like what are your thoughts on this? because Sorry, let let me take a step back. Let me just explain one more time. I kind of felt that um after COVID, there was a bit of a bit of mistrust.
00:37:15
Speaker
And so I kind of thought that these policies weren't going to go particularly far. But since COVID, there's been kind of, honestly speaking, bigger problems from other parts of the world, creating a bit of chaos. and ah And I feel that has kind of rebuilt quite a lot of trust for China.
00:37:37
Speaker
but But maybe I'm misreading it. What are your guys thoughts about it?
China's Cultural Assertiveness in Tourism
00:37:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's China is is um is really asserting its its cultural presence in the world. And I think that's opened up that's opened up the the exploration of of China.
00:37:59
Speaker
Geopolitics makes China appear now as a very um as as a reliable partner. And that helps. that that helps that the the country is is gaining more traction on on from a point of view of but of of tourism. So as I said, ah the the hotel sector and the hospitality sector in China is is wanting to have high high value high- valueue guests and international tourists. I mean, whether it's international tourists to China or, for example, international tourists to to Holland or South Africa or to to Spain, because you don't generally, you're not going to do international destinations two or three times per year. When you go somewhere, you really spend a lot of money because you want to do the typical things, right? So um they are value driven. And I think ah um even in the in the new five-year plan that was released in in March, tourism, quality tourism,
00:39:00
Speaker
is one of the is one of the great objectives. So it is, the government I think is is doing well with their, very well with their their visa policy. they're attracting They're attracting a lot of people.
00:39:12
Speaker
And to a certain extent, it makes, it makes the I think it makes the country seem friendlier, which you mentioned before a little bit in that sense. So um I think it's a success. I think it's gonna continue.
00:39:23
Speaker
um And I have no doubt that China will be will become the number one market very, very soon for for attracting tourists. And so I'm sure that it's gonna it's going to pass France, it's going to pass Spain, just because of the sheer size of the country. And also for the fact that not so many people, if you look at it, not so many people are visiting still relatively visiting this country. So it has a lot of future.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah, agree with what Antonio said.
00:40:04
Speaker
side of the ah traffic. It's not only just the the Chinese take the flight go to go overseas. and that is now with the visa policy, ah visa free policy. So the, you know, overseas tourists can come to China to make the the airlines, the traffic more healthier with the two sides of traveling to each other's country. um
00:40:38
Speaker
Building based on this step by step make the long destination or short haul destination to overseas, that become the the airway connection become more stable and more profitable, so which while eventually, you know i think that will make the the the the price goes a little bit reliable accessible for the both countries' people.
00:41:16
Speaker
um but also the um the uh for the local infrastructures a lot of uh new hotel at the domestic chance international chance the old building uh uh so much of the hotels in China. So I think it's good for the, um you know, ah the um people from these different countries coming to China to, you know, have a look at the
00:41:48
Speaker
what's the hotel is the difference compared with to other countries. I mean, that's, you know, but it's lots of robots that are serving in the hotel and in the room. There are lots of AI is, you know, help you set up the room temperature or, you know, the curtains, the light that, yeah, but will definitely help the overall with the chinas image antonio
00:42:20
Speaker
you with your hand.
00:42:24
Speaker
Sorry, yeah. Great point that you mentioned, Alfred. the The presence of hotel chains, Chinese hotel hotel chains, um right now, internationally, I can think of two or three companies, oneda maybe one of these companies that actually has strong, well, strong, it has presence internationally.
00:42:46
Speaker
um There was a time when There was expansion or there was ah an intent to expand digital Chinese brands outside of China.
00:42:57
Speaker
And that was then thwarted, that that kind of came to an end. And the day that international ah hotels, Chinese hotel brands start expanding also internationally again, that is also going to bring more tourists to to China.
00:43:13
Speaker
Because now, as as you said, Alfred, people will will come here and they will say, okay, let me stay in a Chinese in a chinese hotel, maybe one of the 10 days, I stay one or two days in a Chinese hotel to experience it, right? But they will want to go back to a Marriott or to a Hilton or to to to what they know. But once you have international once you have Chinese ah hotel brands with enough international presence and strong loyalty programs,
00:43:41
Speaker
that will also assist in bringing more foreign guests to to to to China, right? There is that, you know, okay, well, I'm i'm i'm a Wanda loyalty member. normally use it in Wanda in Madrid or wherever hypothetically could be. But let me go to China and I'll use my points over there. So the fact that for the moment there's no there's no international presence or very little international hotel presence, Chinese brands, around the world, that is also a little bit of of a hindrance for more guests or more more foreign guests to come over here and and and continue staying in these hotels. So I think that's also a good point that you mentioned, Howard.
00:44:27
Speaker
Well, let's serve let's flip this quickly, Antonio. So um you mentioned now, for example, Chinese hotel groups expanding overseas.
00:44:39
Speaker
Naturally, their primary focus would be on Chinese outbound travelers and they can satisfy their needs. What about um foreign owned hospitality and hotel groups overseas?
00:44:55
Speaker
Do you think they can satisfy Chinese customers sufficiently, even assuming they don't have Chinese speaking staff?
00:45:07
Speaker
um Can it be done?
00:45:10
Speaker
Good question. Very good question. um And a tricky one, because if you ask hoteliers, okay, so i'm i I'm Spanish, I'm specializing in the Spanish market. If you ask hoteliers in Spain,
00:45:23
Speaker
you know can you Can you efficiently welcome Chinese guests and can they be happy, et cetera? Yes, yes, of course. i I receive, I don't know how many thousands of Germans and and French and British. I can do the same with the Chinese.
00:45:37
Speaker
Unfortunately, they don't realize that China is is um for for good. It is a very, very special culture. And they have a set of expectations which are really different to Germans or Dutch or Portuguese. I mean, even even Spanish and Portuguese, we're we're brothers.
00:45:57
Speaker
um But if you go towards expectations, if you go towards, okay, what do i want to have for breakfast? And and um how do you solve, if there's a challenge, a customer service challenge, how do you solve it? It's very, very different. So imagine between ah a Spaniard and a Chinese or a French and ah and a Chinese, right? So, you know,
00:46:17
Speaker
That is one of the things that that we're working on. I think definitely um hotels need to be adapted to the expectations of Chinese guests.
00:46:29
Speaker
It doesn't have to be an exclusive adaptation. It's just another segment. You know you don't have to just work for Chinese, but um you do need to know how to adapt to the Chinese guests.
00:46:40
Speaker
The speed of check-in, the culture. If something goes wrong, you don't you don't treat if If a Chinese person has a complaint, first of all, maybe they won't even tell you about their complaint because they're they're not accustomed to to breaking harmony, let me put it this way. Whereas an American, he'll shout at you, or a German, he will shout at you. So it's very different. So cross-culturally, there's so many different things that you need to do structurally, um your your offer, your service, your services. So it can be done. It has to be done because at the end of the day, China is the emitter market and Chinese guests, for example, in Spain last year, the Chinese guests spent 460 euros per day
00:47:27
Speaker
per person Compare that to 121 euros per day per person for a French guest. that's incredible Every guest is welcome. But for every Chinese that I could have, you know it's like three French.
00:47:40
Speaker
So obviously, that is ah that is a great ah sustainability issue. So we need to have adaptation. There needs to be an understanding from the hotels. You need to adapt your service, your services and the internal culture. So the the bottom line is it can be done, but you really need to hire experts who know what they're doing. And there needs to be really a will from the hotel to say, okay, this market, we want to capture The oir ROI is huge.
00:48:13
Speaker
It's going to be great for sustainability. But we need to be very, very serious about it. But no doubt it can be done and with really good results. And I suppose, and I don't want to become nationalistic in an uber-nationalistic world that we're living in right now, but i mean ultimately countries guests want some form of respect, right?
00:48:38
Speaker
And they clearly must be nonverbal ways of showing respect, or at the very least, an intent to show that respect, right? I mean, there must be ways around it.
00:48:54
Speaker
Correct. Correct. and And I think, I mean, in particular, the um the the Chinese culture, Asian culture, or is Confucian culture, is is based on is based on on respect and is based on creating a relationship, which is a lovely long-term relationship. And when this is happening in hotels, if you manage to show respect and if you manage to create that long-term relationship,
00:49:22
Speaker
um I mean, you're going to have a guest who's going to be extremely happy to be, to return to your hotel, to recommend your hotel and to and to spend a lot of money in your in your and your hotel. Apart from the fact that also would be willing to forgive mistakes, which maybe they would not they would not forgive in another hotel where there's no there's no no no loyalty. no I think at the end of the day, it's that loyalty, all hotels need loyal guests, right? That's where you cut your costs.
00:49:54
Speaker
That's where you increase actually your your your revenue. In order to do that with Chinese guests, definitely that respect, changing some some structures, adapting.
00:50:05
Speaker
It has to be done. But as I said, I mean, one Chinese guest, 460 euros per day versus other nationalities, which really are quite low in that sense, it makes absolute sense.
00:50:19
Speaker
Hi, Antonio Tsing, the expert, and we talk about the customer satisfaction.
Cultural Understanding in Hospitality
00:50:26
Speaker
And it's, you know, friend me with one of the news recently in China that one of the the Chinese ah tourists was in US and the US hotel.
00:50:40
Speaker
In the minibar, there's a policy that the the staff put on the minibar and he pick up like ah more than five seconds and that is charged to his bill.
00:50:53
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. So you know you you noticed that? the um So the question for me is, is that common for the hotels around the world, especially the um the big brands that did have this kind of a policy?
00:51:15
Speaker
And the second is the Chinese consumers overreact on this because they have the sign, it's the five seconds gonna charge you, or it's kind of, you know it's a kind of also surprise for you.
00:51:31
Speaker
good Good one. um but Those mini bars exist since, I've seen that since quite some some some years, right? um I would say that the difference would be, and and a good hotel, and mean you can you can have those kinds of mini bars, with but um if then I would have the Chinese guest and he would complain to me, and and I would be so happy that they would complain, because actually that means that they have enough trust in me to to to do that.
00:51:59
Speaker
um you know How do I deal with that? Because as I said, I'm sure that um in America, within America, they would say, sorry, the the bill, that's what the sign says, you know after five seconds, we charge you.
00:52:12
Speaker
Hopefully, we need to go towards hotels that understand that other cultures, you you just can't you just can't do that. The American will pay his bill. Maybe he will even come back because he will say, well, it was on the sign.
00:52:24
Speaker
I shouldn't have taken it more than five seconds. But the difference is the way that crossul intercultural intelligence, right? You realize, okay, this this this Chinese guest, well, he didn't realize it. Yes, there was a signage, but let's build a relationship.
00:52:40
Speaker
Honestly, if it would depend on me, I would say, okay, well, you know I understand why there's that signage, but Of course, we won't charge you. Let's take a picture for your TikTok. You can put that on your social media and you can say that Antonio's hotel was really kind and there was this thing which he didn't charge me or whatever. So it's really about how you deal interculturally with these people. And unfortunately, um it's...
00:53:08
Speaker
Not many hotels realize that you know China is a very, very different country and a very different different culture, which is really something enriching for the society in general.
00:53:18
Speaker
But you need to know how to how to how to deal with them the same way that you need to know how to deal with French, with Americans, et cetera. But that cross-cultural intelligence, intelligence unfortunately, is not so common.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, and then um this could be interesting. And this is my last question for both yourselves, Alfred, ah and for Antonio.
Impact of Guest Reviews on AI Recommendations
00:53:45
Speaker
So so exactly as a follow on from what you gentlemen are discussing now,
00:53:51
Speaker
um How important, I mean, it's going to sound silly now, but how important are reviews? How important are guest reviews from Chinese tourists? And on the one hand, from the perspective of, from hospitality point of view, Antonio, and then Alfred from AI search function.
00:54:14
Speaker
um Let's see where this can intersect. Antonio, can you possibly begin? Well, um I mean, the the the the Chinese customer is extremely digital, right?
00:54:27
Speaker
um So no doubt that one of the one of the main sources where they get information, right, inspiration and information is going to be um sites where they can actually look at those reviews, Xiao Hongshu, Ctrip, et cetera. And they they do pay a lot of attention.
00:54:46
Speaker
a lot of attention to these ah to this to this data. But also, they also listen to their friends, their their family, etc. So everything that is on on um on social media, um it carries a huge weight. And if you think about it, if a Chinese suddenly decides to go to Perpignan in France or to Molina in Italy or Oporto in Portugal,
00:55:17
Speaker
they're not going to have so many references as much as the ones that they can find in social media, right? that They trust that social media, especially when it is reviews from other Chinese guests.
00:55:30
Speaker
So it can really make or break your your destination. That's why you know it's extremely important that you are able actually to to be sufficiently cross-culturally adept to realize when a Chinese guest maybe is not happy and to try to change that situation so that when he leaves your hotel, she actually leaves a ah good review. But I have no doubt, and and Alfred will will talk about this for the the geo, the new way of looking things, but I have no doubt that social media, Chinese social media, is extremely, extremely important for the success of a for hotel to attract Chinese guests.
00:56:14
Speaker
yes um antonio you're absolutely right so uh in terms of the ai and ai is not uh AI is collecting the information through different sources. and um the geo that de not of the The UGC, user-generated content, is one of the important content for AI to to understand and make their recommendation. If you if a hotel have a really buy the review and the people said a lot of buy things on the um on their social media and on the, you know, like OTAs comments and those information, those buy review contents will be collected by AI. and will be considered one AI making recommendation. if your hotel have a really good review, really good comments that says you very friendly and your service excellent and you offer tremendous Chinese breakfast for a you know European hotel, And then that will be the one of the key factors when AI make recommendations for their, you know, the
00:57:52
Speaker
for people who ask which hotel is the most friendly or have the best service or, you know, I want a good hotel to for my family to have a holiday in there, and AI will pick those information and ah decide whether the hotel should be recommended or not. So that's said the not just but the hotel's website, it's not the some of the PR articles related to the hotel. It's the mix of all the information that come together. And the experience is one of the key factors for the AI to make the recommendation.
00:58:46
Speaker
So now you need good reviews for two audiences, for the consumer and for the AI machines. That's pretty darn Things have changed.
00:58:57
Speaker
Gentlemen, I think that's ah Good for today. Thank you so much for joining us on today's podcast episode. i'm Very much appreciated.
00:59:09
Speaker
And to our listeners and to the guests today, wish you all a wonderful May holiday and keep well. Thank you very much, Michael.
00:59:21
Speaker
Thanks, Michael. Thanks, guys.