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China Tourism Tuesday Episode 36
21 Plays1 month ago
What’s really driving Chinese outbound travel in 2026?
In Episode 36 of China Tourism Tuesday, we dive deep into the latest May Day outbound travel trends, unpacking the data, personal experiences, industry war stories, and key insights shaping the market right now.
From the growing influence of the economy on traveler behavior, to the rise of experiential tourism and immersive destination content, the conversation explores what Chinese travelers are really looking for heading into the summer season.
One major takeaway? Aspirational, emotionally engaging travel content is becoming more important than ever in influencing destination choice.
A fascinating discussion for anyone working in tourism, hospitality, destination marketing, or the China outbound travel space.
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Transcript
Introduction & Host Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to China Tourism Tuesday, a podcast discussion about marketing international tourism destinations in the China outbound tourism market. My name is Shah Alpertain and I am coming to you from Shanghai, China.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hi, I'm Marfroli. I'm currently away from China, but joining with the team to play the travel podcast.
Guest Introductions & Industry Experience
00:00:24
Speaker
and the I've been in trouble to travel and tourism, is especially outbound from China to other destinations for quite a long time. and Currently, I'm holding the role of VP of um AI marketing and strategy for Creative Consulting China.
00:00:45
Speaker
Hi, my name is is Antonio. I'm based in Kunming. I'm Spanish. I've been in China since 2011. And I'm trying to bring China to the Spanish-speaking world, tourism Spanish-speaking world.
00:00:59
Speaker
and also the Spanish-speaking world to ah to to China. That's a business point of view, but from a a deeper philosophical point of view, I'm really trying to help China and Spanish-speaking countries and the world in general to get along better. Tourism is a wonderful way to know people and to know cultures.
00:01:19
Speaker
And I think it's um it would be great if I can contribute in whatever I can to increase the friendship between Spain and Latin American countries and China. Thank
ITB China: Importance & Challenges
00:01:28
Speaker
you. Good day everybody, I'm Michael Jones and I'm speaking to you from Amsterdam.
00:01:33
Speaker
So guys, it's going to be getting a little bit, well, already quite busy with ah ITB China coming up. ITB China for those that have been on the moon is from the 26th to the 28th of May. It's one of the premier, if not the premier B2B China outbound tourism trade shows.
00:01:54
Speaker
um So um it's going to be really interesting and fantastic for me personally to be back in Shanghai on a personal level. ah But from a business level, um we have absolutely noticed that, um well, naturally there's always a silly season for trade shows in various markets in China for tourism. It's absolutely this time of the year. Business flows, we notice, this are obviously always volatile according to who you're clients are and where they are but this is absolutely the time when everybody is just pretty darn crazy um so what's quite interesting this year it's uh 20 bigger than last year it's um fully booked um so clearly some interesting things are going on clearly there's some interest in china again i don't know um
00:02:46
Speaker
If you guys have any thoughts on what you think about ITV, do you think it's one of the better ones or are you going to be there? What do you expect to accomplish there? Look, I'm i'm definitely going to be there. I'm going to be seeing you also.
00:02:59
Speaker
think obviously ITV is is, is, extremely important event. I've been there a couple of times. Definitely what I like about these kinds of trade fairs is that it's, it's a thermometer of what is happening in the industry.
00:03:12
Speaker
So you get to talk to a lot of people and you find out what is happening, what are the trends, what are the worries. You mentioned 20% higher occupancy. I talk like a hotelier um in the in the trade, which I think is really positive and it shows the faith that people have in the in the in the china China market. right So I think it's extremely interesting.
00:03:36
Speaker
um It's also interesting that in the same way that tourists are doing, many people are booking last minute because i think basically the geopolitical and economical situation, those two together, um that many people have their doubts. But it's great to see that actually people are saying, well, we're still going to go. We need to go.
China's Tourism Market Resilience
00:03:55
Speaker
We need to be there.
00:03:56
Speaker
And I think if you want to be someone in in China, if you want to take the pulse of the tourism China, um ITV Shanghai is definitely the way to go. So Really looking forward to being there and talking to to people, seeing what is happening.
00:04:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, ah I personally was a little bit concerned how do we politely call it the geopolitical situation was going to impact on it, ah like it did for ITB Berlin. ITB Berlin was ah hugely challenging because, quite just frankly, 20 to 30% of the people couldn't get there.
00:04:27
Speaker
um I was a little bit about worried it might happen now with ITB China, but now it seems everything's fine. i see I read a really good article the other day about how how naturally European flights, a whole bunch of European flights have been cancelled due to fuel shortages and stuff like that.
00:04:47
Speaker
But Singapore Airlines has increased their flights. um which is really interesting. I don't know where they're getting their jet fuel from. Also, so it's obviously more than that. It's obviously yeah they they see a huge demand for certain regions and stuff like that. So that's actually- I think China is also within itself, it's it's a self-contained, it it is becoming a self-contained market.
Impact of Global Politics on Tourism
00:05:11
Speaker
um So it is one of these events where, of course, geopolitical situation is is affecting everyone. But I think that in comparison to ITB, Berlin, or if you would have something in Dubai, et cetera, that would be much more affected. But I think China, and in that sense, ah people can see that it is a self-sufficient self-sufficient market. So I think it would always be affected, but probably less. China is is ah is very huge now in in the tourism industry.
00:05:40
Speaker
biggest center is It was the biggest spender in 2025. So I think people realize that they need to be here, and it's ah it's a little bit of a longer-term strategy, possibly. I was hoping to get your guys input on the upcoming Trump visit to China. Surely, if we start speaking about geopolitics over here, I feel like it could go one of two ways, although it's impossible to predict how exactly the guy in the White House is going to play all this. How do you think this will kind of mingle with the festive spirit of ITB?
00:06:11
Speaker
That is a loaded question. Mr. Trump is so unpredictable to say it in an elegant and and and very educated manner. I don't know. I'm i'm just happy that China is is maintaining a very predictable, very stable position.
00:06:26
Speaker
I think Chinese authorities in that sense are ah very, very... It's a reflection of the an Asian view, which is much more long-term than than than Western civilized civilization, Western cultures, right?
00:06:38
Speaker
So China is looking to be a reliable partner. um Whereas the United States right now, I mean, i I couldn't tell you what he's going to do. I don't think anyone knows, not even him.
00:06:50
Speaker
what he's going to do, to be honest. Just from Chinese point of view, that because last time when ah Trump came to China, that China did it was quite a big welcoming, but after he left, it gave China a big shock. The start was the trade war with China. so let's ah But at this time, was the the situation quite different with the Trump needs more you know support from China, being that ah he did lot of things with no really good outcome. So that's is the the main thing that ah he wants China to you know help him to win his face.
00:07:33
Speaker
Either way, I think it's fantastic that the President Trump and President Xi Jinping are meeting. i think it's absolutely wonderful. I think the the the world absolutely deserves it, whatever whatever the outcome is going to be, because the outcome can only be more positive if they meet face to face than instead of trading jobs through true social and things like that.
Tourism Data & Trends
00:07:57
Speaker
So, yeah, I think once it's going to be interesting, I mean, I I do believe President Xi, if they meet face to face with Trump, it's going to be kind of limiting certain certain actions, limiting certain emotions. I think it will be, yeah I can only see positive, to be honest.
00:08:19
Speaker
And Alfred, so you did some work recently, some more research. Recently, we were talking ah before ah the May break, May national holidays. um Now it's obviously fully complete and everything like that.
00:08:35
Speaker
So let's talk about the reports that we collected for the May holiday based on Fleegi, Tongcheng, Chuna, Ctrip and Ma Fenguo.
00:08:52
Speaker
five different platforms. They have numbers based on the May holiday performance. that if Each platform has a bit of a different focus. So we collect all the information and you know get some views for the data for our bond so we can share with everyone. that So let's highlight of some of the the numbers. First, there's the Fliggy. During the May holiday, in the album booking is up more than 50%, and Tongcheng Travels, their album booking is exceeded at 60%. Qunar, so the overall, for the long-haul flight ticket booking,
00:09:48
Speaker
That's only just the one platform. so the the the lungs the ah South Africa has increased by 180%. Belgium increased by 160%. For that is inbound data, but we will more focus on outbound. But the inbound is also increased a lot, especially from Russian market.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yes. So so ah why I find that interesting is because, I mean, naturally, I know few people in South Africa and and and they've really, really the China market. um the the Up until before. So, I mean, the stats that they would have been referring to was definitely pre-May Day, a pre-National Day.
00:10:32
Speaker
ah but But they were really complaining that that ah Chinese numbers were nowhere near what they were expecting. and in fact the numbers actually went down um so i i to be honest i i do actually need to check the data myself but but that is absolutely uh the feedback that i've received from quite a few people in the industry in south africa um so much so that that now yes um people in the industry uh are taking it quite seriously and they're talking to government about it and they want to know how can things be improved so it would actually be really be interesting to final arrival numbers um after the May breaks and and see if finally that that trend has been reversed
00:11:19
Speaker
Yes, so that's when we look at the number because that is flight booking. So it doesn't really mean that the people on the flight are tourists. So let's who a tourist, who is a business, or who is, you know, immigrants or whatever, the VFRs.
Chinese Tourists' Destination Preferences
00:11:43
Speaker
So that's, it's just a flight booking. I think part of the people definitely is a tourist, but we really don't know what's the percentage of the increase. Yeah. I do think that Western Europe has become flavor of the month again. I do think Western Europe has become quite popular with Chinese outbound tourism again. There was definitely a trend of more Eastern Europe, which still remains strong, don't get me wrong. But again, because of geopolitical things like that, and visas and things like that, Western Europe was kind of shunned for
00:12:18
Speaker
quite a bit post-COVID, and I think they're definitely making a comeback on that. Secondly, I mean, Charles will also know about this, about how, ah as a comparison of Brussels Airport, for example, the competitor hub of Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam. So Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam is just constantly increasing the airport taxes.
00:12:41
Speaker
ah making Brussels airport more attractive for airlines and for passengers. So to to give you a classic example, if I want to fly from here to from Amsterdam to Cape Town ah to visit of my family, for example,
00:12:59
Speaker
um I can absolutely always get cheaper airplane tickets from Brussels as opposed to from Schiphol. and And sometimes it's even just not, it doesn't make a sense. i I can fly with the same, I can jump on a train, go to Brussels for two hours. I can jump on ah a KLM flight that will stop in Amsterdam and then it'll fly down to Cape Town. And that flight will be cheaper than if I jump on the airplane from Amsterdam and fly to Cape Town.
00:13:31
Speaker
ah And it's actually the same flight with an extra thing, that extra leg added on, but it's cheaper. um If anybody could explain the logic to me, that would be wonderful. but but But so again, that's exactly how airport taxes and things like that kick into ah these these situations. also probably worth noting that Brussels Airport has coordinating more as of this year for the China markets acting as a sort of a national tourism board when ah Belgium can't really because of the constituent regions.
00:14:03
Speaker
So that's also possibly another push factor behind it as well. Yeah. So, carry on with the last time we also did to the AI recommendation destination for a May holiday. there are top five, was Thailand, Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, and Malaysia.
00:14:26
Speaker
And the May holiday results week we came to the top 10.
00:14:35
Speaker
So let's those those five destinations are all in the top 10 countries. And the worst to mention that South Korea has increased 73%. So this also based on the China's data. So this is probably reflecting that the South Korea has taken over the the reduction from the Chinese go to, so they take over the the the market share to you know to
Influencers & Travel Decisions
00:15:12
Speaker
to the country. ye
00:15:13
Speaker
And so the who is traveling also get some data. So the post 2005 generation booking, it's increased 130%. So that's definitely the new generation starts spending their money.
00:15:32
Speaker
And the ah the based on Ctrip number, that the Belt and Road has increased by 144%.
00:15:45
Speaker
So it's a graph related to the region. And um if lets you look at the RCEP country, so that has increased to 79%. I think that's probably reflecting the current North countries, probably like more stable political situation.
00:16:08
Speaker
From the interest-driven, we'll talk about the experimental travel, um the the the code in this way, so that's
00:16:22
Speaker
um So in-depth travel during the May holiday, i mean indeed you know they the go more for culture. So they have 52.3%. And the on the platform that the buy the and ticket have increased like five percent the hidden genes, genes the ah yield knowed the the locations driven by the social media, the destinations have increased 33.5%. So that's the
00:17:06
Speaker
so that's is a that's the um The report says that it's more of the interest driven. Rather, we ever have a price, people go. It's now as more of the people that are pursuing their personal interests.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah. Well, so not not so much hidden gem anymore, right? ah If they're going to be increasing nicely. Well, let's let's also talk about that a little bit, about like interest-driven. So like how how how would you how would you, I don't know, how would you do that like if, for example, people have a hobby of hiking and now they're going to go travel according to wherever they can go hiking in mountains? Or how would you describe it?
00:17:51
Speaker
So from my understanding that the interest, you know, that the people have their own personal preference that when they choose destination, you know, for, you know, but for quite obvious example, like ah ski, but they go to destination with still on with ski facilities. Or some people that go to destination, or they prefer somewhere that they could, you know, cycling or hiking.
00:18:20
Speaker
or go to an island destination that has a beach, that they prefer have a ah rest of a holiday rather than you know go you know go to various cities to see that different cultures or whatever. So this interest is more driven by their you know the hobby or their prefer to visit.
00:18:55
Speaker
And, like, so, Charles, I'm guessing influencers in China travel precisely that, um especially when they're monetizing it.
00:19:06
Speaker
um I'm guessing that they would pursue whatever interests that their followers are going after. I mean, unless it's a famous actor and then they, like, can cover everything, like, every area of life experience or something like that. But, I mean,
00:19:23
Speaker
i'm I'm guessing these guys aren't going into tour groups and stuff like that. They're obviously making their own decisions, obviously going to things that they find exciting. I don't know. Yes, that's a big part of it is the sort of experiential, you know, whatever niche vertical they're in. For example, if they're a golf influencer or a food influencer, um they definitely are structuring sort of their experiences very much around they what they call a side-down in Chinese or niche.
00:19:47
Speaker
um But another part of the equation that, that you know, international brands don't quite um understand, and that is how important it is to design um shareable moments or you know photographable moments. That's something that a lot of these influences will really lean into. So whereas maybe a corresponding Western package will have more experiences that focus on sort of the subjective experience,
00:20:12
Speaker
A Chinese maybe influencer facing kind of experience will have many opportunities for creating your own content. Even if you're traveling with an influencer, you're creating your own social media content with the influencer.
00:20:26
Speaker
So it's sort of sliced up into many, many small um sort of snapshots where the the person who is traveling with influence is given the chance to pose at this special spot and then quickly pack up, go to the next spot.
00:20:39
Speaker
What they call. ah tehu bean sure ah sort of like secret agent style traveling. You get the photo, um which I think makes quite a lot of sense. I mean, if we if we're being quite honest about it, what is travel to really and post on social media and let everybody else see that you have ah been somewhere and done that, let them feel a little bit jealous of you.
00:21:03
Speaker
So, yeah, that's just something that I wanted to add to the discussion. Philosophically, If I owned a if I was in charge of marketing a to bring in Chinese influencers to promote the place,
00:21:18
Speaker
would, would I mean, i would imagine that a person whose job is to market it and he's now, I'm assuming, paying money for the influencers to come in and promote the place.
00:21:31
Speaker
um Therefore, they would think that, okay, um this is the list of things that I think is the most important. This is what I think is the unique selling point.
00:21:42
Speaker
So therefore, this is the itinerary and everything I'm creating for this influencer and they should follow it and they should adhere to it.
00:21:53
Speaker
Or should they just like allow the influencers to come in free reign, let them do their own thing, no matter what that might be within legal limits, of course.
00:22:04
Speaker
I mean, what is, yeah because I can also imagine that like, If an influencer is feeling heavily constrained, they're not going to be particularly... They might and it might like come out as a result. or Well, i don't know two two angles to this really. the one The one major problem is that often you'll have a rep sitting in China representing an overseas destination, coordinating a Chinese influencer to go to, shall we say, the Maldives, for example. The influencer lands in Maldives.
00:22:34
Speaker
They meet up with a team locally who is um not particularly trained to work with a Chinese influencer, for example. They're just following orders from corporate. They'll do a feature dump. We have a lovely jacuzzis in our room. We've got great brunches. We've got a Thai style spa.
00:22:52
Speaker
And they'll kind of throw the feature dump at the influencer. The influencer doesn't really connect with the person that's coordinating with them on the ground. And so they just kind of get the job done. They add in whatever the brand says that they must add in, the feature dump.
00:23:06
Speaker
The post doesn't do so well. The ideal practice, I would say, is probably have somebody... on the ground who ah actually knows how to communicate with a Chinese influencer who gives them the required structure, um but also gives them enough freedom.
00:23:25
Speaker
So it's guidance and freedom. It's those two. You can't you can't just say, okay, go and um you know throw it into the wild and let the person just sort of take it off their list. But you also mustn't cramp their style. I think that ultimately and the at the end of the day,
00:23:39
Speaker
What you want to do is for a Chinese influencer or any influencer for that matter, to find viral angles, moments, and spots, because um that creates the sort of mimetic loop of followers going, booking the same destination.
00:23:58
Speaker
And, you know, that's how the flywheel gets going. For example, there's a good case study with the Fonseu Haitan, the pink beach in Bali. I don't know if it was Jay Chow or if it was some other Chinese celebrity.
00:24:12
Speaker
There's a little patch of pink sand on a beach in Bali. It's probably the size of a sofa, of the sofa that we're but I'm sitting on right now. The person posed just perfectly and they got this viral shot. million likes later, you have a flywheel going of people imitating the same thing.
00:24:30
Speaker
getting their take on that shot so i would say yeah to come back to your question michael give the influencers free reign to find their pink beach it's funny to say but like let them find their viral angle and because that's what then gets um exponential exposure for any any uh yeah any property pretty much Okay, cool. Very interesting. ah Yeah. I'm going to ask you how easy it is to manage influencers because, ah yeah, and never mind. Moving on. They come in all shapes and sizes. Yeah.
00:25:04
Speaker
That's cool. Yeah, and then also just, ah ah I mean, also to tie in earlier what you were also saying earlier about experiential ah tourism and stuff like that. I mean, I was also wondering if you also could chat about that a little bit. It's not unique to China. It's it's a global phenomenon. Everybody's talking about experiential tourism.
00:25:28
Speaker
um I'm not a fan of the term. i think that we have experience We have experiences every minute of our lives.
00:25:38
Speaker
um So good. um but But at the same time, also, i don't know, I kind of feel that that there are better terms that could be used instead of experiential tourism. And I mean, Alfred, like even like from the data that that you're saying that there's an increase in experiential tourism.
00:25:57
Speaker
um I mean, how do you feel about it? ah I mean, in the sense that um Obviously, people have always been talking about China being an immature outbound tourism market and it's in the process of maturing. But maybe it's getting pretty darn close to being mature already. um the The way I see...
Maturing Chinese Tourism Market
00:26:21
Speaker
Chinese tourists in when I travel in Europe. um Sure, you get the buses with with with the big groups going to the main attractions in the city.
00:26:34
Speaker
um But I absolutely do see a heck of a lot of self drive. I see a lot of people absolutely planning their own trips, absolutely being in really niche areas where I didn't expect to see anybody, never mind ah Chinese ah families and groups and stuff like that.
00:26:53
Speaker
I mean, when you're working at New Zealand Tourism Board, I mean, New Zealand's been like one of the leaders of FIT travel from a Chinese outbound perspective. I mean, how do you feel about it? It's been long time in the market that people already feel it. From my experience with Tourism New Zealand, when I first joined Tourism New Zealand, it was 2011. At that time, our job was to move the people that only visited New Zealand's North Island.
00:27:28
Speaker
and in three days, we tried to move those people that visited New Zealand as a whole country, not a Jewish nation, that's how Australia plus New Zealand, left New Zealand only in three days. And that you know and after that, it's been like ah three to four years that we already see a big change. that the new new that lot of people have started to to visit a whole New Zealand and the three days tour in New Zealand. The portion was gradually going down. It's never been going up. and you know Before a pandemic, we already see the the the group tours that's that's around only just just thirty percent versus the 2011 level, it's more of the the tourist, it's the move towards. So that's a a big change. And also you see that very remote destination that's like South Island in Invercargo, that you um also see the FIT self-drive tourists, they stay in the motel.
00:28:45
Speaker
When I was tourism New Zealand, we were talking with one of the motel owners. So who is your major? They said, obviously, the local Australian. And then they mentioned the Chinese, because they say that the the Chinese has increased dramatically over The past few years so that was was the conversation happened was the before the pandemic. So that's been quite a long time.
00:29:12
Speaker
I see that the the chinese cast the Chinese visitors have changed. um So let's know you know it's a quite big market. You always have the people that have very confidence to solve also have the you know certain amount of that. They always have the tour group, the bus tours. Yeah, totally. I mean, i when I was working for a a communications company in Beijing, or when I started of my career, we had an incentive where the entire office was sent to Thailand.
00:29:48
Speaker
And that was the first and only time I've been on a traditional Chinese outbound bus group. um And it was in Thailand. And um Sure, it was an experience for me, I assure you. But I mean, like the thing is, I mean, it it wasn't, it wasn't that bad. I mean, ah I mean, again, I'm not into group tours and stuff like that. I've always been on trips and and things like that. But, um but we We did see cool things. ah It was also fun ah hanging out with people. like ah going to And not they only went to Chinese restaurants. They absolutely went to all the local like nice, cool Thai restaurants also and things like that. We absolutely went to go watch like ah Thai shows. We went to watch Muay Thai boxing and things like that. like like Actually, a lot of the things that FIT travelers are going to book by themselves in any case
00:30:42
Speaker
um and um yeah but But yes, fair enough, by like day three, i remember myself and a colleague, we were like, just like so, that that ah of of of the routine. And whereas we just wanted to, to Antonio's point, we just wanted to sit and have a few pina coladas.
00:31:01
Speaker
so So that's absolutely what we did. We got into a lot of trouble with our boss. um But I mean, ah but but it it was... So I'm also just like curious, like,
00:31:11
Speaker
I sometimes kind of feel so like this experiential tourism is just a rebranding of tourism. kind of feel that tourism is getting to it's getting a bit of a bad name from all this over-tourism discussions, which which I do think in quite a lot of ah situations, like absolutely in the the north, like northern Norway, and these places to the Arctic,
00:31:34
Speaker
These, I mean, even here in Amsterdam, there's a term for it it. If you see a restaurant that's just got like a crazy, and even a takeaway delivery restaurant where there's a crazy queue, then the term is they've been TikTok'd.
00:31:49
Speaker
um And that's that's exactly what it is. It's like somebody has made a TikTok video about It's gone viral. Yesterday, there were no... Today, there's queues. um And then, understandably, that does ah upset locals and things like that.
00:32:06
Speaker
but But I also think that... Yeah, there needs to be a bit of a balance in it because people are also talking about over-tourism, frankly speaking, in places where there's always been over-tourism, like city centre Amsterdam with the the red light district.
00:32:24
Speaker
um a case in point. ah you've You've got people complaining about the noise and stuff like that, but it's like when they moved into that neighborhood, it's not like they didn't know that the red light district with its thousands of tourists every day was there, right? um so So I do think in some like cases the semi-bad news is amplified extremely, but but absolutely there are new in sensitive places like the Arctic, small islands and things like that. I don't know. what What do you guys think?
00:32:59
Speaker
I'll tell you what kind of ah in the Chinese that that sell the self drive tour as a experimental tourism product. But when we were talking with the you know the the Western people that they don't understand because they believe that self-driving is just a way of travel. You travel in the car or travel in the bus, but ah for the traveller and also the organisers, they sell those kinds of products.
Experiential & Future Tourism Trends
00:33:35
Speaker
they say that you know that you been through drive overseas and that's a different experience. So the one way that's to explain the product and second is the you know the obviously that's ah the people that never drive overseas, that is a kind of a challenge for them. So this is also kind of a learning curve. and I don't know how long is that kind of the learning curve for the Chinese, but when they still feel that is a bit of a challenge or they're learning new things, can still be experimental travel. And also that in the camper van, for the Westerners,
00:34:17
Speaker
ah you have a camper van holiday, let's say you drive camper van that's kind of you know so the the travel style. But of lots of the the Chinese travel agents, they sell camper van as probably in the part of their self-driving like product, they put three days for an experience.
00:34:45
Speaker
so you know But everybody knows that in most of the you know the Chinese tour operators, they know that if they organize the whole trip, it's a camper van trip, it never works.
00:34:59
Speaker
yeah But it's quite difficult. And also the people that don't really understand the camper van experience, they don't know what's goingnna be what kind of experience they're going to be. but you know But only just two or three days as a test. you know, they you know they they go to a holiday or whatever, so they can you know a drive around.
00:35:21
Speaker
So that's it's not too challenging. and you know For the Chinese, a lot of tourists, if they stay in Kamperevan more than 10 days, they're going to drive them crazy. Totally. Yeah. I mean, and also like, I also like in terms of also like the rebranding or whitewashing, like i also kind of feel that there are ah always people in this industry with ah very vested interests and they absolutely want to always like categorize somehow or another, like
00:35:53
Speaker
make something fitting to the pigeonhole that they that that they think is best for for business um so i think in the past it was like obviously very much grouping now it has to be oh no no no no that's that's dead now it's experiential travel and and this is what it is but but it's also something that i chatted about before um i i i think what I think one of the biggest misconceptions ah in the foreign world outside of China that that would like to Chinese ah ah tourists is is that China is not only big in population, but in um but in what people and what people like. I think the variety is so crazy massive that you can't fit all of them into the box. And for sure, this is the same for every country and things like that.
00:36:44
Speaker
but But I think also like... foreigners, again, from misconceptions about China, they like maybe feel like people are a little bit more rigid, a little bit more. that They truly believe you are or it's a group mentality, but but but there's always going to be individual thinking within the group and things like that. um I mean, ah the the case in point that I always like, ah when it was...
00:37:06
Speaker
cool and fashionable to only talk about ah Chinese outbound luxury travel. At the same time, we had clients in Africa that do economical overland truck safaris where there is not much kind not much luxury at all.
00:37:24
Speaker
And yet we would get people of all ages, and we even had 83 with his 20 year old granddaughter, And they were that was traveling for about 20 days on a truck. And then they've got to put up their own tent. they've got to help make food at night. I mean, there's zero luxury in there. What is luxury is is the landscape, what what you see. i mean, it's pure, absolute ah beauty of nature. um but But if someone had told me that earlier, I would have found it quite hard to believe. ah But lo and behold, there it goes kind of thing.
00:38:03
Speaker
I do believe that when space tourism does truly become commercialized, obviously it be super expensive, there's going to be a lot of Chinese people that are going be signing up for the most expensive tourism ticket ah out of this earth, literally, which is going to be space tourism.
00:38:20
Speaker
um but But at the same time, I also think, yeah, I just feel that pretty much no matter what you have, as offer in terms of a service or a product or a destination outside of China, you will find Chinese people that will be interested and enjoy it.
00:38:37
Speaker
And of course, you're going to get people that don't. But yeah, um I think there's something for everybody.