Transcript
Speaker: Hey everyone, welcome to the ABM Voice Podcast.
Speaker: This is your host, Arun Gopalaswamy.
Speaker: Today I speak to Pooja Sharma, the Marketing Specialist at CRYSAL, a global credit rating company, Pooja is an experienced and certified ABM marketer.
Speaker: Pooja, welcome to the show and I'm very happy to have you here and do this chat with you.
Speaker: Thank you so much, Arun.
Speaker: Thanks a lot.
Speaker: Pooja, just give us a sense of
Speaker: your marketing experience.
Speaker: It's almost a decade, right?
Speaker: So you've worked in different sort of companies.
Speaker: Give a sense of like how the experience has been on your overall journey.
Speaker: Yeah, it's been a decade doing marketing and the journey has been
Speaker: fantastic, especially because I have worked in different industries.
Speaker: So getting a flavor of different industry, how technology works, how telecom works, how BFSI, or FinTech work and start up to assess.
Speaker: It's been an absolute journey, but one thing common has been at my German ABM.
Speaker: So that has been to and been there and I'm quite rejoicing and loving how ABM works and what ABM does.
Speaker: Because as a marketer, I think that's how I think.
Speaker: And that's how when I'm marketing strategy, that's the only way my brain functions of what I can give an account or more specific and more targeted.
Speaker: So that's been the journey where ABM has been constant.
Speaker: The companies and industries have changed.
Speaker: That's the part of it.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: I think that's the experience I wanted to tap into and help our audience do better ABM.
Speaker: You talked about different experiences in different industries.
Speaker: Are there any aspects which are applicable in one industry and not the other?
Speaker: It could be audience, it could be messaging, it could be content.
Speaker: What is the unifying thing and what is that thing which is very different from each of these industries that you mentioned?
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Every industry and every company which I've worked in is completely different.
Speaker: And especially the way we take ABM is completely different.
Speaker: Where the ABM is not all three ABMs, one on one, one is too many, one is too few are not applicable for all the industries and for all my companies, especially the size of the company or depend on how much your company is ready to invest.
Speaker: What are the output you are expecting, right?
Speaker: There are companies who are investing a lot, but the output also being required to give 30x or 20x, right?
Speaker: And now, is that possible from one is to a few?
Speaker: It's not mandatory that you do all three ABMs together, you know, discarding the investment you are ready to do or you're ready to take off.
Speaker: challenge on.
Speaker: Specifically for me, whichever companies I have worked in, and ABM is not quite old.
Speaker: It's, you know, especially in India.
Speaker: It's not all the companies who are doing ABM from quite like long back.
Speaker: And so ABM is not something which was a base and you're building up on it.
Speaker: Whichever company I have, we have started the base from ABM.
Speaker: Like it's a new thing.
Speaker: So specifically when you start ABM, you have to be quite cautious.
Speaker: Like, you know, should you take the risk with all three ABMs?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Or you prove which into the objective of your company and that the objective is serving to the office, the objective of the company, one is to one ABM, go ahead with one is to one, get the ROI, the results out of it and then shift to one is to two.
Speaker: Nowadays, because it becomes a jargon of the market.
Speaker: Every company where it might not be applicable to all or every company where there's so much investment is not required at the start, we are going ahead without any prior research or without any prior theory with all of me together, which I, in my opinion, is not a good start because the results do take time in here.
Speaker: It's not a demand generation where you just get a phone and then that's not the right type of which you're doing then.
Speaker: So yeah, that's been different industries and specifically because I've walked in with scale to large scale and also startups.
Speaker: So it has been different in all three scenarios for me.
Speaker: And the strategy has all been different in all three scenarios, along with the search for all three industries.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Now I want to double click on that experience part on the culture side of things, right?
Speaker: So you've been part of conglomerates and you've been part of enterprises and also SaaS, right?
Speaker: So what does, from the marketing culture perspective, right?
Speaker: So what are the, some of the commonalities and what are some of the things which are very distinct and specific to each of this type of companies that you've worked?
Speaker: It could be decision making, it could be the kind of programs that you're allowed to run, right?
Speaker: So the empowerment and things like that.
Speaker: I'd like to click on that sales cycle.
Speaker: So your sales cycle is quite distinguished between to a large scale to a mid scale, to a small scale, the sales cycle is quite distinguished.
Speaker: Your ABM program has to be shaped and has to be, have a strategy according to your sales cycle, right?
Speaker: It will say those one year long, then your ABM program can be one, one and a half to three years, which is possible.
Speaker: If a sales cycle is one month or two months, especially when it is for the sales company, your ABM cycle has to be six months, and you have to see where your
Speaker: progression is going.
Speaker: You can't just continue with a longer campaign because I have done campaigns which are running half year long.
Speaker: Whereas I've done campaign which is six months long, right?
Speaker: Then a half year and six months long, where do you put a red flag?
Speaker: Where do you start looking into that strategy correct or account correct or is the objective correct?
Speaker: That's something fine between sales and the large scale company, right?
Speaker: And the companies where you have to see the sales center, decide put a redneck that can offer one, one and a half month in me and says, I will put a redneck that will not work it.
Speaker: Whereas in large scale, redneck is after six months, because within six months you have any, you know, object or whatever analytics to look at.
Speaker: And the analytics won't speak correct.
Speaker: What's not going to make less deal.
Speaker: which take longer time.
Speaker: You may have the payers, sales have been working on the account.
Speaker: We have like 30, 40 salespeople, like, you know, going around it and still they have not, it will take a longer time.
Speaker: So the, it takes decision making and you're saying strategy, your entire own campaign plan for each of these, uh, tasks, mid-tail to, uh, high tech industries to your, you know, it all differs.
Speaker: And especially when you culture, the culture is quite different.
Speaker: The objective is quite different.
Speaker: The objective is like, is our engagement more?
Speaker: Is your awareness there?
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Well, they want the awareness and engagement between there.
Speaker: Where in your mid-state, obviously, because of the size of the team, where they want whether you are you taking to a decision making?
Speaker: Are you taking it to the bottom of the funnel?
Speaker: And that's where I said that E&M strategy changes.
Speaker: Whether you want awareness and consideration or want the objective of decision making, where you want
Speaker: of the funnel or you want to go mid of the funnel also is fine and mid of the funnel is fine we can have a lot of it.
Speaker: I understand.
Speaker: In your current organization in the role, so you are embarking on an AVM program and you've been working on this for months.
Speaker: And as I understand, it's a very strategic program.
Speaker: There is a top level sponsorship and then there is visibility.
Speaker: Over this last month, right?
Speaker: So what are you exactly trying to achieve, right?
Speaker: So are you trying to put together just a planned program, like how deep and then what is the kind of activities that goes on for months, right?
Speaker: So the reason I'm asking for this question is some of the smaller companies, right, startups, they wanted to start ABM in weeks, right?
Speaker: That is like one, two weeks, right?
Speaker: And in your case, if you are working on a planning aspect for six months, there is a lot of work that's happening.
Speaker: What is the thought process that happens there that the others are not doing maybe?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And that's what even when I have my coffee conversation, I think that I do not.
Speaker: Kickstart ABM, it's account based marketing, right?
Speaker: To start, account based marketing is supposed to know your account, that's your company.
Speaker: From past six months, the journey from where I am joined, I started to understand what the business, the structure of business is.
Speaker: What are their objectives?
Speaker: What are their targets, right?
Speaker: What would they find?
Speaker: Because it's not that open now.
Speaker: ABM is not about body marketing team.
Speaker: We have to what's the basic.
Speaker: It is not only about marketing team.
Speaker: You have to have a sense of your cross-functional team, of your sales team, of your product team, of your content writing team, right?
Speaker: And if you have a strategy team, you have to have a sense of what a strategy team is doing.
Speaker: Basically, all right?
Speaker: Now, what is happening is because ABM is a joke, and again, only the marketing team takes the decision.
Speaker: Maybe it's not.
Speaker: You need to buy in from all the stakeholders of the company, all your parallel teams, because somewhere in the other, they play the role.
Speaker: If you get a lead and you pass it to them and they do not know the value of the lead, they do not know from where the lead is coming, they do not know the journey of the lead, they do not know how much effort you have put into the lead.
Speaker: That just goes to the way.
Speaker: So my six-month journey has been understanding each team, understanding what each
Speaker: does understanding what is the objective of the team, what will it take for start ABM to shift their mindset?
Speaker: Because it's totally different.
Speaker: You have to shift the mindset of sales.
Speaker: You have to shift the mindset of product.
Speaker: You have to shift the mindset of your, um, even the board members, right?
Speaker: It's not easy.
Speaker: What, what results are good.
Speaker: It's not that demand.
Speaker: So my six months in search has been, is ABM a good fit for the back company?
Speaker: A. What type of
Speaker: uh, what type of ABM is it?
Speaker: What type of ABM is it?
Speaker: What will it take to change the mindset of open people and how can I explain to them?
Speaker: And hence to multiple people trying to understand what is their mindset with ABM, right?
Speaker: In the company, I come from the same industry.
Speaker: I have been having this, a lot of public conversation for people's mindset.
Speaker: I'm not trying to influence them.
Speaker: I'm just trying to grasp them.
Speaker: So that will make people in my company understand the cross functionality, what IBM takes, what it will give them and what, how to treat it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Treatment is the base of ABM, right?
Speaker: If you're doing an authority and you're getting an engagement.
Speaker: into our account or into in-content, without the next team.
Speaker: That's the sales preview, the Terry calling team.
Speaker: But most before that, your strategy team, your product team, your content marketing team, how do they start having the mindset change of how to start making the content, how to start making the strategy?
Speaker: What should the strategy include?
Speaker: You're having your result count, you're having your total count, you're having X dollar of investment done.
Speaker: What are you expecting and how much run?
Speaker: So that strategy has taken me a six months long run to get it created to the core of it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, now I know that these XYZ teams have these objectives.
Speaker: This is how I can change my mindset.
Speaker: This is what the work would be done.
Speaker: And this is the amount of investment I need.
Speaker: And I can give a wide amount of output.
Speaker: Because it's not in two weeks.
Speaker: Then it would be a marketing decision.
Speaker: It has to be a parallel decision.
Speaker: It has to be all teams.
Speaker: Educate the team.
Speaker: Let the team come on board.
Speaker: Then start the process.
Speaker: Because if you start and you do not have your product in line,
Speaker: Will you be able to make industry bundling?
Speaker: You won't be able to make industry bundling.
Speaker: The product means the same stuff, but the functions, but the functionality, those changes for each industry.
Speaker: For one industry, security is high concern, for another industry, you get experience of high concern.
Speaker: So what is productive on board if you get bundled, according to industry?
Speaker: Is your design team on board to give you industry specific design?
Speaker: Because without educating, they can't have a certain shift, right?
Speaker: Because they have been doing it for years.
Speaker: Is your business team on board to take your leads or your engaged contact and speak the language, same language, which you have done all the effort in, speak the same language?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Please go ahead.
Speaker: So that's the core of my research where I start with the business and then build up on it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And how does this buy-in look like?
Speaker: So how do you know that it has been brought in or bought in, right?
Speaker: And are you like doing workshops and bringing all of these teams together and then educating what ABM is?
Speaker: Or are you talking about benefits, right?
Speaker: So there is a phase I understand that you're trying to understand the business.
Speaker: How do these teams work?
Speaker: then you need to sort of convert that into a sort of a working model, right?
Speaker: So talk us through that experience in terms of now you're going and introducing ABM and then saying, okay, this is how we're going to do.
Speaker: Do you see excitement?
Speaker: Do you see resistance?
Speaker: Anything that you wanted to change, typically there is a resistance, right?
Speaker: So how do you overcome?
Speaker: So basically I'm doing ABM for my internality.
Speaker: I'm doing accounting to my, actually contact based marketing to my international.
Speaker: And that's, as a marketer, you can't send your ideas and market your, you have to contact this marketing, then you have to rethink about the entire thing.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Like when we are targeting an account as a, as we, you know, as a marketer, we know what the account wants.
Speaker: We see what the account wants so that I'm applying exactly the same thing to my internal stake content.
Speaker: And then contact-based shooting where I know what each contact wants.
Speaker: what in there, what is fitting, what type of output can I show them that they'll become wins?
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And they don't, obviously they won't buy in because it's a lot of work.
Speaker: ABM is a lot of work.
Speaker: It's not just a start of it.
Speaker: It's a lot of brain work actually more than the part of it.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: I'm doing exactly what their needs are, what output we will be happy with.
Speaker: So I'm showing ABM's benefit for each contact within my company with
Speaker: same content marketing approach.
Speaker: So I'm utilizing the AVM.
Speaker: I think that's very interesting.
Speaker: I don't think I've heard anybody saying that I'm actually doing AVM to sort of get buy-in from my team.
Speaker: And if you think of it, I think that's what you're doing.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: So this, like the kind of company and the setup you are in, you have that luxury to do months of research, right?
Speaker: Convincing and all of that.
Speaker: If you're a smaller startup, right?
Speaker: So they don't have months, right?
Speaker: So they have weeks and they could have a product where ABM can be applicable, right?
Speaker: For such companies, right?
Speaker: So how should they approach their ABM
Speaker: How do they embark on ABM, right?
Speaker: So what are the groundwork that they can do, but maybe not do like an elaborate exercise like what you've been doing?
Speaker: And also figure out like what are the readiness and if there is a checklist that should come up with or is there one that they can basically use and then say, okay, this is what I can do.
Speaker: Yeah, well, that's a good question, Arun.
Speaker: And other things that in the company's smaller size, the convincing of teams also is smaller.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So playing around with less amount.
Speaker: You're playing with the smaller things, every thing.
Speaker: You're playing with smaller structure.
Speaker: So then you have a smaller research done.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So that's when automatically happens.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Checklists at least have the basic checklist done.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Because they are smaller.
Speaker: It's easier to get all of them into one room, one time, educate all of them together regarding what A, B is.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And then we have a session of boss, what's your requirement each in a bigger organization you have to do it with an angel team, because teams are bigger.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: If it's a 20-20 person's team, you know, responsible in a smaller setting, get to the webinar room.
Speaker: I want to give them your ideas, what are their output, what are their expectations and basically aim for those output and start.
Speaker: right there are different ways where abm's output can be whether it's engagement whether it's relationship building whether it's awareness there are different types either top requirements of all the teams in your suppose if your product team i want people to be aware about my product features right when sales sales team always via sales team say that i want leads i want to sell it right and then whether whether a management might have like i want my company
Speaker: more than the product.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Once I had people know about me.
Speaker: So then these three becomes your core to go with.
Speaker: These are our three objectives.
Speaker: And then you can building with this objective is there.
Speaker: What type of ABM fits in?
Speaker: Whether it's one, one is too few, one is too many.
Speaker: For your startup and you said it's a new product.
Speaker: So then it would be one to two because your account, if you have a good current customer list, you can retarget them for
Speaker: up you know cross sales a part of it and then you have one is to make right then you down to type of abm now you have tossed out to two type of people right what's your what's your product called what is your everything now you know your everything you say do a back calculation of what is the budget he's giving you cool i think that this helps um so when you are doing longer programs and you said you you you had abm programs run for
Speaker: One and a half years, you said, right?
Speaker: So how difficult is to sustain the alignment?
Speaker: And then what are the things that you do to make sure that you're actually working together in tandem, I think, with the end goal and things like that, right?
Speaker: As time passes, right?
Speaker: So the initial excitement sort of fades away.
Speaker: And then as a leader or somebody who's anchoring the program, right?
Speaker: So how do you sort of keep people together, flock together, motivate and...
Speaker: go to that instead of, let's say, the campaign becoming a winning one.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, you know, when people and I get this question a lot of how do you make them believe in your ABM?
Speaker: How do you make them believe or whatever?
Speaker: The second part which, you know, make any ABM program successful is the transparency and is the reporting.
Speaker: Your reporting speak top notch and is to be along with the objective.
Speaker: right if you have an objective your objective you know the three like you know if there are three teams with three different objectives your report which goes out to them bi-weekly or monthly i prefer a bi-weekly reporting always you know small bi-weekly monthly reporting they are aware of the progress they are aware of the journey keep the trust the win of abm is only by reporting right because then
Speaker: Then the teams are aware, the teams are in line.
Speaker: They know those are programs.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: One and a half year programs, suppose I'm already one team, right.
Speaker: And I tell my content of product marketing team, what to see your assured interest in five to 10 of your product.
Speaker: Then I'm making them engage with your, now they have engaged with top level, top of content, three times, bottom of the, you know, middle of the funnel, more full content, four times and bottom of the.
Speaker: They are happy with the journey.
Speaker: They know that they're coming, you know, taking in, they're getting gasping the information what they're creating.
Speaker: If I tell a sales person about, you are meeting two weeks later, but the last week you're working on read X, Y, D thing.
Speaker: Keep happy reporting.
Speaker: So, if it's the base in ABN to make our stakeholders stick in us, even the internal stakeholders.
Speaker: keep that site on, to keep the stickiness on, to keep, you're always listening to information is both the site.
Speaker: You can't do it.
Speaker: You need cross-continental teams.
Speaker: You need your, it does, it's a teamwork.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: So you have conversations within once in a month, boss, this is the top account.
Speaker: These are the journey which our customers will take.
Speaker: These are the contacts in your account, which have shown interest.
Speaker: This is the journey of equal the contact.
Speaker: Then they know, they know things are moving.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Not moving the alarm, then sign, right?
Speaker: You know, you just go and meet the ones.
Speaker: It should be just because these are your top clients.
Speaker: These are your top 10 clients.
Speaker: You might be your
Speaker: getting your, you know, most of the time revenue 20-30% from stock time, which you can't mention.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: So there's a lot of intent, your internal intent, external intent, your event intent, your campaign intent, digital intent, external intent, one-on-one intent.
Speaker: Your reporting has to speak all of it.
Speaker: You can't say that I do marketing reporting.
Speaker: So I will be having it has to have external, which has to have a sales touch point also.
Speaker: It has to have a piece of product, but then the stories and that shows the teamwork and then best.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Again, in the same context, right?
Speaker: When you have this one and a half years of
Speaker: deal cycle, right?
Speaker: And then you're reporting every, let's say, every two weeks, there are going to be periods where nothing is happening, right?
Speaker: So, right, it could be, there could be a spike and then there is a moment and then there is a lull, right?
Speaker: So it's always a swing, right?
Speaker: So what are you reporting on those times, right, where no action has taken place, for example, right?
Speaker: Yeah, and that's the transparency which is to be maintained.
Speaker: And that's where your ABI application to your stakeholders coming point, right?
Speaker: There is no action.
Speaker: We can be clear.
Speaker: You say the boss, there is no big action.
Speaker: Let's try the subject.
Speaker: Can you vote from your client or is it a vote meeting in your client's thing?
Speaker: Or is there some shift happening from your on-ground conversation from the sales team?
Speaker: and they're like, oh yeah, there's board meetings, so they don't bother for these two weeks.
Speaker: They won't interact.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: If there is no net or they attended event last week itself, right?
Speaker: So, when many times you have to make your campaign go slow, right?
Speaker: If they have a round table or if they attended your tech session last week, or with
Speaker: What if you continue with it?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Obviously I understand what point you can't put a stop to it, but then go and have your content, which is might be a fat content, might be not a content product.
Speaker: You don't always have to sit.
Speaker: Now, if you, and if you have that, you have a tech session last week, next week can't be enough saying that, you know, take more information.
Speaker: It can be a concept.
Speaker: It can be a fine factory industry.
Speaker: It can just be something, nothing to do with your company, something, nothing to do with your, uh, you know,
Speaker: Um, with your company or with your product, it has to be a light conversation.
Speaker: It has to be a fun fact or it can be a branding news, right?
Speaker: Because it was a trend and brand recollection is important.
Speaker: That brand not sniffing from the end is important.
Speaker: No one, now we have arrived where we have our attention span of three seconds.
Speaker: Once upon a time, it was 25 seconds.
Speaker: It has reduced, reduced, reduced from the three seconds.
Speaker: And we know about the digital era, we are stating it is too much of confirmation.
Speaker: So ABM is on deciding that.
Speaker: And when you're deciding one and a half million camping, these are the expectations which have to be kept in.
Speaker: You can't keep selling.
Speaker: You can't keep selling.
Speaker: It has to be the length of football.
Speaker: If you know your contact and well enough, and that's you're supposed to know.
Speaker: If the contact is football, put the concept around the football.
Speaker: Makes sense.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: And this is across the teams, right?
Speaker: So if you're leading a program, right, so how are you proving ROI, right?
Speaker: So again, for large, long programs, right, it's going to take time for you to actually do the conversion.
Speaker: But in the intermediate time, right, so both for short as well as long programs, what are some ways that you...
Speaker: Obviously, this biweekly report or fortnightly reporting is something that's going to give them the clarity in terms of how the deal is progressing, how the program is progressing and things like that.
Speaker: But specifically, what are the steps that you do to prove ROI?
Speaker: So these are high investment programs.
Speaker: Your leadership teams are coming to you and then asking, where is the return for the investments that you've already made?
Speaker: So how do you tackle that question?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So, in that case, there always has been more, you know, more than the final.
Speaker: Because if you're ABM, you start or you're obviously take six months to warm up.
Speaker: After six months, if you're warmed up, there will always be recall or no end in terms of power, right?
Speaker: Power when we're one expect of it.
Speaker: But there is account score, contact score, which proves that you don't think some moving in the right direction before you come.
Speaker: There's account score, there's contact score.
Speaker: There have been times where, you know,
Speaker: Things have gone to the beatings and you know the customers, your content has to be strong, your ads have to be strong, your Btn has to be strong, your events have to be strong enough.
Speaker: Where the customers have come back and said, was that Btn was ready.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Those are your success.
Speaker: Those are your scoring models to put in place.
Speaker: Then when it's teamwork, where sales has to be transparent, commentate, because this, and they tell, I'll tell you, I know, I do know sales, you know, sales and marketing never going to end on a crime.
Speaker: But when they see results, they do commentate.
Speaker: There are many people who come back and they don't tell.
Speaker: It's not that.
Speaker: If they see the result, they commentate because they want that to be replicated for other accounts.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: can stop winning objective is because not the place more, but because they wanted work to be done in other accounts.
Speaker: So I, you can do account scoring, context scoring with the dollar value.
Speaker: Obviously there won't be these from six months back, which would be closing and come near the bottom of the funnel.
Speaker: So what about the funnel when you account scoring and contact scoring, the measurements.
Speaker: Obviously with part where the customer themselves, like we said, that's the bubble.
Speaker: And then the education has to be given to the management too.
Speaker: And where I know that each management I work with, they understand the value of it.
Speaker: They understand when someone comes in saying that, you know, was your content was really good enough.
Speaker: Like if you're gone and you have given a personal life or
Speaker: newsletter only for their account, you know, only for their investment.
Speaker: That shows how it has been.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: That's part where I see that, you know, it is good enough where the ABM results are countered.
Speaker: So that's how I take the accounts for it.
Speaker: Very interesting.
Speaker: You talked about this feedback that you receive from sales, right?
Speaker: So that loop, is that a process or it's just that whenever they get to meet, they come on and say, okay, so I've had this discussion.
Speaker: So what I'm saying, trying to understand is,
Speaker: Is it part of the plan that you regularly collect this?
Speaker: These are the meetings that I've done over this last two weeks, and this is the feedback that I've got, and this is how they think the work that your team is doing, specifically marketing, when you look at it internally, that it's influencing.
Speaker: You talked about a reference to that content piece that somebody said that it was useful.
Speaker: So is this processified or just like left it to just randomized?
Speaker: No, it's a process driven.
Speaker: It's a process driven.
Speaker: So when you're making this campaign plans, it has to be detailed of when you're sending this reporting, when you're taking feedback from sales.
Speaker: OK, that has to be documented for each campaign plan, each account plan.
Speaker: It has to be documented and shared across with the sales, agreed with sales, agreed with the product marketing force.
Speaker: These are your feedback, which you will get.
Speaker: So mostly we get feedback, sales, pre-sales, right?
Speaker: And the events team, if there are companies in China, events team in Paraguay, where they recognize the logo and come, right?
Speaker: Might be that you did a campaign boss.
Speaker: If you go on the booth, collect this, this has been made for you.
Speaker: And then team design team have to be product marketing team, contact marketing team, and the ABM team have to be on the receiver side, where we receive the feedback on it.
Speaker: That is the giving.
Speaker: And it is very, obviously, giving will always be sales, pre-sales, e-gons who see them face to face.
Speaker: So that's the process.
Speaker: That is a structure created.
Speaker: Who is giving the feedback, who is receiving the feedback, how often we act upon it, right?
Speaker: That has been structured.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: After a debate, if the board goes back and asks to the staff that what was the feedback of your customers, then you're at fault.
Speaker: The AVF team is at fault.
Speaker: That feedback is the first.
Speaker: Boss had sent them the email that their specific personalized book is kept.
Speaker: Did you communicate the same?
Speaker: They come and collect it.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Or might set the small goodie if they are, you know, plant lovers or you just kept a football sign for them.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: And you just kept the football sign for them.
Speaker: Did they collect the football?
Speaker: right so these are things which matter you know i i believe getting being more than the productive psychology playing with like you know you have to go to the psychological movement of your customers and you have to collect this because to understand someone likes coffee or football is not easy for the marketing team and i get it because i've done those researches now if you ask then didn't that work
Speaker: you won't know that you don't have to repeat it because it takes us to do that research.
Speaker: It's very important that we talk about.
Speaker: And are you doing it systemically in the sense, right?
Speaker: So are they capturing in CRMs and then you look up and then get that or are they typically face to face meetings where this is like orally totally captured, right?
Speaker: How does that work?
Speaker: So for one-on-one in the end, it has to be CRM captured.
Speaker: Because these are the journey.
Speaker: Account or team can change.
Speaker: Account person can change.
Speaker: Marketing team can change.
Speaker: Everything can change.
Speaker: So for one else to one, whereas it has to be documented in detail in the CIO.
Speaker: So down the years, whoever comes, we haven't looked at it.
Speaker: Whereas one is too few.
Speaker: Understand it's difficult to measure every piece of it, but it has to be measured in the CIM.
Speaker: So that tomorrow you know what campaigns work.
Speaker: So the same is taking place.
Speaker: Especially where ABM, you have to do predictive analysis, you have to do competitive analysis.
Speaker: You have to, when you're doing this analysis, these points come in picture.
Speaker: When you're doing predictive analysis, how do you do predictive analysis?
Speaker: It's seen what has happened in the past.
Speaker: You can predict whether it will have the same, if there are five companies having the same sort of journey, then you can predict that it's going to be the same for the industry.
Speaker: Now, if you don't get into detail, then you would not know.
Speaker: Like, I'll just give you an example.
Speaker: Events are not cheap.
Speaker: If you know that five of your top one-on-one accounts came for that one particular event, you know that they're making a good investment.
Speaker: When 50 came and 50 was small scale of your thing, then you have to see, I mean, is there the current title you're getting?
Speaker: And this will be possible ODEP have documented what you've spoken to a salesperson.
Speaker: It will be possible to document what you've spoken to places, right?
Speaker: And it has to have account at the end of the year, ranked for top account, which has to have account history pulled up by marketing team.
Speaker: Then this was your journey, especially for top 10 accounts, top 5 accounts.
Speaker: Now, what I was trying to do, starting of this podcast, you have to see what type of ABM is fitting, right?
Speaker: You can't see how much detail in the ticket size is like, you know, 10,000 or 20,000.
Speaker: If it's in two minutes, you have to have the documentation of the end of MPV or when you dodge down the journey of your account, this is what the journey is happening, this is what happens, this is down.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: One is too many.
Speaker: You can't have a detail or totally, but, uh, then you have to have the integration in such way that at least your digital frames are captured in your CRM.
Speaker: You have to have process in a place that maximum touch points, where minimum what you can do, the touch points are captured in your CRM.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: One is two pointers.
Speaker: One is two, one is one.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And the feedback, who's putting it in CRM?
Speaker: Is it the marketing team going and extracting through conversations or you're letting the sales team to put together, let's say, based on a template or something like that on CRM, whichever CRM they use?
Speaker: So it's both ways, right?
Speaker: You know, and if the sales team, one was to point, one was to many salespeople want.
Speaker: One is many salesperson.
Speaker: And that's a...
Speaker: I do not want to build up any warfare because then one is to mean one.
Speaker: One is to one what happens and mistakes either is that.
Speaker: They start to mean.
Speaker: Putting it, okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Go and see whatever is missing you rather than that.
Speaker: But, you know, where sales sees that, you know, there ain't been results out of it, we start putting it again, as I said, because they wanted to do it for other accounts.
Speaker: Most of these companies where large accounts are with one salesperson, he will have more, two, two, three like accounts to him.
Speaker: When he started returning to himself because he helped it.
Speaker: if they see the input they start putting it themselves and they can don't see what it may it won't have if you're starting abm neo it has to be the market you can do it because at the end of that after six months you can prove to this that these are the point of the chat so it would be great to stop these pointers makes perfect sense uh just switching uh gears so if you're a company which is getting started with abm so you have some kind of a demand gen program that's going on maybe a couple of million of revenue
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So they have product that fits into your ABM use case, for example.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How do you introduce what what are the things where you introduce and then sort of tell your ABM program into demand chain and then marry this and make the whole thing a process?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How do you approach it?
Speaker: When you start with ABM, do not stop it.
Speaker: Just start and stop demand that will just backflash.
Speaker: Let it go in parallel for three months.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Take for one too many, take the industry, take your top three industry account, take your top three products which are selling, if it is industry or product origin, right?
Speaker: Start putting those buckets of a platform, what we call in idiom language.
Speaker: Start taking those two, one is too many, right?
Speaker: So when you start taking these clusters, what will happen is your results will dry water.
Speaker: My technique will be poor because the content is marrying the industry, it's marrying the product.
Speaker: So that metrics will have more results.
Speaker: It has to be gradually done, right?
Speaker: But then I would say, what will one is to make?
Speaker: Because that's not good.
Speaker: One is to one takes a lot of content strategy, a lot of part of it.
Speaker: And the one hand, you can't do one is to
Speaker: one for many accounts in parallel, right?
Speaker: It has to be done for a few accounts, your top accounts.
Speaker: Because the investment also is likely very large.
Speaker: One is to also, like, you know, it will take a little bit more time if you want.
Speaker: One is too many.
Speaker: It's a shorter cycle for you to execute.
Speaker: So start the clusters, clusters by product, clusters by industry.
Speaker: Start marrying the one is too many.
Speaker: After you start putting them in that AVM or language, what happens?
Speaker: You start seeing the result.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: So what is the one to many funnel or bucket, right?
Speaker: Is that going to feed into your one to few or the conversion is just like optimized for the many?
Speaker: Yes, the perennial crisis always.
Speaker: The perennial will always go one is to one is to few.
Speaker: At the end of the day, it will go into one.
Speaker: One is to many will go into one is to few.
Speaker: One is to few depends.
Speaker: One is to few to go to one is to one.
Speaker: It depends.
Speaker: It depends on the ROI the account will give because
Speaker: No one will be able to make that type of investment.
Speaker: It's not worthy to go into one is to one.
Speaker: So one is to many, surely one is to few, right?
Speaker: Because that's the type of future we're looking at.
Speaker: One is to few to one is to one, depends on the type of, account manager depends on the type of, you know, deal size which you're looking at and whether it's putting so much investment.
Speaker: So that's the type of pyramid which I have been worked upon.
Speaker: And I definitely worked because
Speaker: If you take, I'll give you a small example, so if you take one into two 10 accounts, right, and put in a one tool, you're putting entire one resource behind those 10 accounts, but at the end of you get only $20,000 deal, is it even worth it?
Speaker: It is not worth it, right?
Speaker: Because you're putting the one resource into those 10 accounts, you can have put that one resource into one account, which is giving you a $20,000 deal.
Speaker: right yes one is too many to one is too few i thought uh like you know always there one is too few to one is quite it depends okay so what changes when an account that was in the one too many bucket goes to one to few right uh so there is obviously like a lot more focus but
Speaker: are you activating more channels are you there could be like a lot more personalized content and all of that like what else goes through when an account progresses from the one too many to one to few bucket but touch points increases so one is too few the content fusions the one is too few to one is too many to one is to one
Speaker: The, in all three, your touch points have to globally increase, right?
Speaker: Your touch point has to go more personalized, right?
Speaker: And the content has to go more personalized.
Speaker: The content has to have more depth.
Speaker: When I say more, if you're selling, suppose they're even selling ABM, right?
Speaker: Of course, when you're saying, what is ABM, how, what are ABM doing, right?
Speaker: Now what does ABM benefit the technology industry?
Speaker: What has been the past?
Speaker: What has been the breaking?
Speaker: What is the future?
Speaker: That is the type of content that people are looking at, right?
Speaker: And so that's to be industry specific.
Speaker: Now when you are using five channels, right, you know now it has done to one each to few who has ten channels.
Speaker: But those many channels is that you have to increase that five channels to ten channels.
Speaker: Now when I add technology examples, so you have to see what type of, uh, you know, what type of website or technology people visit, what are the type of events they go, what type of newspaper they read.
Speaker: So you have to start adding and targeting them according to their perspective, according to where their touch point is higher.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I have to, which I love doing and one is to QA, you have to see how that industry is targeting their, uh, their customers.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: When you know this is the colors, this is the theme, this is the language they're using for their customer, then you very well, they are used to looking at it.
Speaker: They know the trend.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: That research has to be done.
Speaker: A company is very, if you see white, white, very fast, you know, quite modernizing.
Speaker: on point, you know, they are like for them when you're thinking a campaign has to be a campaign.
Speaker: It has to be according to today's century.
Speaker: Whereas when you're looking for a BFSI, what is the trend you're seeing?
Speaker: Take 15, 20 BFSI accounts.
Speaker: See how go advertising.
Speaker: See what are the, because they have only three seconds time on digital inference, right?
Speaker: They're seeing, see their accounts, see take the 10, 15, uh,
Speaker: 1015 BFSI and B2C, see where their homes have visited in last one year.
Speaker: See what type of events they're going to or see people they're meeting.
Speaker: something more personalization is possible to 1 is too few which is not possible into 1 is too many right because of more company would invest in the source and so these things change from 1 is too few to 1 is too many 1 is too few also you have industry specific messaging but at what level you have industry specific messaging what is the type of stuff you wanted to get to that one industry specific messaging it might be top level right but 1 is too few you have to go on into a little bit there
Speaker: And it can happen because one is to one, you might have a few accounts which are there from these industries.
Speaker: So if you have done one account or research very well, then you don't have to put extra answers.
Speaker: That research industry one is too few.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So I just wanted to stick to that progression.
Speaker: So the one, two,
Speaker: many to one to few progression right is it also aligned to the deal progression or the awareness from tofu to mofu that determines okay so when the particular account reaches the mid funnel then i put them into a one to few bucket and then progress them is that how you're thinking is there a dependency connection at all
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So it has to be from, or, you know, it can't be on the awareness side where you put, right?
Speaker: If they have passed your awareness stage in one is too few and they have reached your, you know, WFO stage also in one is too many, although you have to have your WFO stage and Bofo stage, right?
Speaker: how basically I inspect it depending on the type of class.
Speaker: If things are, you know, what type of investment again, going back to your first research what we have done.
Speaker: If there are five buckets, five industry.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now if you have a professor's I-industry, which you know that inside will be largest of your five industry.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: I mean, then the industry has the largest inside.
Speaker: Now in for that case, if they finish one is to one or one is to many cards go full and then one school go middle of the file more full strings, then you can put it into one is to because what I was expecting requires more touch points and require time investment.
Speaker: Where many have a vast industry, supposed to be a lot of urban industry, right?
Speaker: Where the deal size is less, again, that comes with your predictive analysis.
Speaker: Where the deal size, okay, and the, you know, at this point, you know, they let them, and the, you have seen the sales cycle also drops a lot.
Speaker: There's a drop in the cycle.
Speaker: Then you don't injectly put it into one industry.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You let them do the entire journey of one is too many of, you know,
Speaker: you do the.pufu, you do the.pufu, once they reach.pufu, then you shift it to you.
Speaker: So that's the objective of each cluster.
Speaker: And that's why when you plan campaign, objective of each cluster is the things you have to do.
Speaker: What is the objective?
Speaker: What is the sales object?
Speaker: What is the marketing objective?
Speaker: And what is the objective?
Speaker: These three objectives have to be classified, most of the marketing, sales, objective.
Speaker: Once you have been classified, you know what your campaign will slow and slow.
Speaker: So the step allows your campaign to go to help.
Speaker: So that management comes in and asks you later, then, boss, you have spent so much.
Speaker: I have not won the new blog.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So then just spend your, uh, the campaign, your resource count, it all depends.
Speaker: And it's all in line with the objective.
Speaker: When you say how hard it is to convince the management, it's this all line, right?
Speaker: It is your stuff, your objective.
Speaker: There will never be a question on the budget spend to the resource or where your energies are going.
Speaker: So that has to be a graduate shift from one is too many to one is too few has to be according to the
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So what's your account research process like typically?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So obviously it depends on the company, product and things like that.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So when you are
Speaker: Going from a one-to-many to one-to-few.
Speaker: So that requires a lot of understanding of these accounts.
Speaker: What are the different sources and what are the kind of information that you are trying to collect?
Speaker: So intent could be one.
Speaker: Is that where you're plugging in intent?
Speaker: Or what are the things that you typically do as part of the research activities?
Speaker: And how do you do it at scale, these researchers?
Speaker: So intent is the base from one is to few also.
Speaker: One is to many also.
Speaker: Intent is the base.
Speaker: Part of intent is the base.
Speaker: All of it.
Speaker: It has to be there.
Speaker: It has to be in place because that narrows your accounts.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That narrows your efforts in the right direction.
Speaker: in a way at least that means 60% of your right direction go the right direction.
Speaker: So that helps, right?
Speaker: So intent and mandatory all the follow-up the world you are, that's the thought or external intent.
Speaker: Then also then second or third one before this, we have a lot of those listing tools, right?
Speaker: Whenever whatever the listing tools are for a technology, or most of them are, we do see the listing tools are not there, but you know that the season of your personal is going up and down.
Speaker: So the intent from the listing tools, right?
Speaker: Where you have people coming, looking at your website and your internal, external intent and internal intent, many them together.
Speaker: And that has to be your base for any type of API.
Speaker: One is to one, one is to few, one is to many.
Speaker: That has to be there.
Speaker: Then one of the second research.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: First, the base, at least for one is too many, what you can do is at least start reading the white papers out over there.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: The reading helps.
Speaker: Someone has done the research, leverage it.
Speaker: And if someone has done the hard work of doing the research, and it's a bare minimum you can do as one as many leverage that research, right?
Speaker: Read those white papers, read the, and all companies come up with white papers for every industry.
Speaker: Read those.
Speaker: Those were, they can at least have which direction do I need, right?
Speaker: For what, too many I'm saying, it is that bare minimum direction.
Speaker: You would have top five in Bob's dreams.
Speaker: Okay, you have 10 industries, right?
Speaker: If you have 10 industries, then you're starting your AVM row.
Speaker: Because then you're 60% or 70% of the account will be from five industries, three industries, four more.
Speaker: And whereas 10 industries, then you have to bucket.
Speaker: Take all five industries, see what has been your collective energy, so then your CRM.
Speaker: See when is their buying price.
Speaker: So if you have, uh, if you had supposed to be two senior brands, which month of the same brand bought most from when they get things, people have closed the most.
Speaker: Calculate how your campaign has to flow and when they are to come to go.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You can't train the mind cycle of industry.
Speaker: And obviously that's the time they'll buy.
Speaker: That's the minimum research that you can do with few clips and does not take large time.
Speaker: A white paper won't take more than 10, half a month or 20, 30 minutes, right?
Speaker: Or doing the intent, marrying the intent.
Speaker: Again, it's automated.
Speaker: Every event is automated.
Speaker: Your CRM reads it.
Speaker: And then reading predictive analysis, if you have your dashboard ready, again, it will be clicks.
Speaker: It's the part of reading the right content out over.
Speaker: These are the ways it has to be what the point starts, like, you know, it has to be them to plan any campaign.
Speaker: So then it goes back to seeing what the industry and where it tries to reach, right?
Speaker: So for one is too many, I would say this intent, internal, external intent, predictive analysis and white paper is such is basic, right?
Speaker: And it does not take long time.
Speaker: If you say it won't take more than an hour or two for an entire thing to be done if you are
Speaker: Knowing if it is in your process, it won't take a larger time.
Speaker: And if you know that this is the process, it won't take a larger time.
Speaker: Then one is to view it, give it in your time.
Speaker: Take five, look like accounts, which is your, you know, your target audience.
Speaker: Always take the upper sign.
Speaker: If you are targeting, suppose, revenues, your target is five million revenue, take a 10 million revenue, right?
Speaker: So because they look up to them also.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So when you do the marketing of one, when you compare those 10 million accounts, get some top five objectives.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Again, this has to be the base of internal, external, and intent predictive analysis, and then go for the account research.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: How about structure in place of what are you capturing?
Speaker: You're capturing the color scheme, you're capturing the thinking, you're capturing the type of content going on there.
Speaker: you're capturing where their sea levels have gone, right?
Speaker: And to not surprise if you call, you will see it because I've been doing it for a long time.
Speaker: It won't be very different.
Speaker: There won't be overlap.
Speaker: So that's why when it sounds that it is a very rigorous work, but it is not.
Speaker: Because it will have common, there will be overlap.
Speaker: When they say that, you know, when you're five people, if the five sea levels are sitting, it won't be very different for each.
Speaker: They will be having the same type of path.
Speaker: They would be having a very similar type of events going, any similar type of industries and attendance of white papers and blog posts, co-authoring, similar type of influences.
Speaker: So it will be very similar.
Speaker: So it sounds tedious, but it is not because it is very similar pattern which each of them will be having.
Speaker: So that's where it comes to one is to few.
Speaker: One is to one is contact with.
Speaker: It has to be contact research.
Speaker: You are supposed to know this, your target audience, especially at least top three target audience like your friend.
Speaker: Like, you know, it has to be like, you know, what he likes, where he goes.
Speaker: Does he have kids?
Speaker: Does he play golf or does he play football?
Speaker: Does he play cricket?
Speaker: It has to be contact research in one is to one.
Speaker: If you've been not having one is to one ABM contact research map, especially for the account, which have reached your more food stage, then boss, it won't move forward.
Speaker: Got it.
Speaker: So vertical research, then the persona research and person research.
Speaker: So this is what you're doing.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: I think a lot of questions, but in the interest of time, let's just wrap this podcast today.
Speaker: Pooja, this has been an excellent conversation.
Speaker: There's a lot of things that you have shared from your own experiences that I'm sure it's going to benefit a lot of our listeners.
Speaker: I don't think this is the last time we're going to do this podcast with you.
Speaker: So I think there's a lot more to cover and maybe we'll reserve this for the next episode.
Speaker: Thank you so much for taking time on a Saturday and then speaking with me.
Speaker: Thank you so much, Aaron.
Speaker: It was a pleasure.
Speaker: It was a pleasure.
Speaker: And I guess this learning should continue because I've learned a lot from you and from your listeners.
Speaker: I guess let's continue with learning.
Speaker: It will be beneficial for all of us in some way.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Thank you so much, Pujia.
