Transcript
Speaker: Hey folks, good morning.
Speaker: Welcome to the ABM Voice Podcast.
Speaker: I'm your host, Arun Koppalaswamy.
Speaker: Today I'm joined by Jolie Shapiro from Caspian Studios.
Speaker: She leads the growth marketing initiatives for them.
Speaker: I'm happy to spend some time today with her to understand how she approaches demand gen, BWB marketing, her experience with content and various other things.
Speaker: I'm really looking forward for this discussion.
Speaker: And welcome to the show, Jolie.
Speaker: Thank you so much.
Speaker: I'm happy to be here.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: Let's just get started by getting to know you a little bit better, right?
Speaker: So I know I've covered a little bit, but if you could just trace part of your career so far, it's been almost a decade, I suppose.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I started off as a songwriter.
Speaker: I started writing songs when I was 11 years old and I wrote a song about, I was on a trip
Speaker: what was it a school field trip?
Speaker: And I wrote a song about pain because I was this angsty 11 year old.
Speaker: And then all the parents, I sang it and it was very well received, but all the parents called my mother asking if I needed help, which was, I was fine.
Speaker: I was just an angsty.
Speaker: I was just an angsty preteen.
Speaker: So, um, always love writing.
Speaker: I've tried writing books.
Speaker: I've tried six, wrote like a few chapters when I was 15.
Speaker: And then, um,
Speaker: I was in the music industry, so I interned at like Warner and EMI back when it was EMI, now it's bought out by Universal and Universal and went on to content strategy.
Speaker: So I was like, okay,
Speaker: I'm in the music industry.
Speaker: What do I do next?
Speaker: I love to write.
Speaker: I switched majors three times.
Speaker: I did journalism and then advertising and then telecom.
Speaker: And ultimately, I ended up in PR.
Speaker: That's four majors.
Speaker: And then I went on to content strategy, like I mentioned.
Speaker: So I did that for three years through Upwork.
Speaker: And then I went on to a marketing agency that worked for American Express or their primary client was American Express as an account coordinator.
Speaker: And then I fell into B2B SaaS.
Speaker: I didn't know I was in B2B SaaS.
Speaker: It was back in 2017, but it was kind of like the punky, like I called the punky spunky underdog of scission, the media monitoring company.
Speaker: So I worked there.
Speaker: And I accidentally did a demand generation campaign without knowing it.
Speaker: It was an influencer marketing campaign where we asked influencers, what's your secret to success in marketing?
Speaker: And it went viral, at least in the marketing community.
Speaker: It was like 7 million organic compressions all over the world.
Speaker: which was amazing because some of these, some of these influencers had 250,000 followers.
Speaker: So all of them reposting it was absolutely incredible.
Speaker: And we also made an ebook out of it, generated a couple hundred leads.
Speaker: So that was, I was like, Oh wow, I really love this.
Speaker: I love, I love the ROI.
Speaker: Cause I was really tied to the data and content strategy and blogging and social media back when it was really popular.
Speaker: But then I,
Speaker: So I studied for about three, four years, got certificates, did like Next MBA, did like Digital Marketing Institute.
Speaker: And I got a bunch of certifications.
Speaker: It was a lot of studying.
Speaker: I felt like I got a master's in marketing.
Speaker: And then I went on to...
Speaker: three or four B2B tech companies within the past six years.
Speaker: I love tech.
Speaker: I think it's just, especially MarTech, it's just such an interesting field.
Speaker: And now I'm at Cassium, which is a B2B podcast as a service company, primarily work with tech companies, pretty large tech companies like IBM and Dell and Segment and Twilio and
Speaker: that sort of thing.
Speaker: So I'm really happy here.
Speaker: It's a great transition and a really good part of my career.
Speaker: It seems so.
Speaker: I think you have so many experiences, so many learnings.
Speaker: What's the best part of writing?
Speaker: Do you have writer's block at all or does writing come naturally?
Speaker: Yeah, so...
Speaker: Funnily enough, so when I was young, it just flowed.
Speaker: Like I had these melodies that would come into my head and then I would have the lyrics at the same time.
Speaker: So I'd write and I had probably like up to 50, 100 songs by the time I was in my 20s.
Speaker: But it's definitely, it's interesting, you know, because ChatGPT has made writing easier, but it's also...
Speaker: If I use it too much, it actually stifles my creativity because it's so easy to generate content, but it's not good content.
Speaker: I don't think chat GPT is really there yet.
Speaker: Like it gets you probably 80% of the way, but maybe not 80%, maybe 60% of the way, but it's definitely, I think that's almost hurt me more than help me.
Speaker: So I'm kind of like going back to,
Speaker: foundation of, okay, let me be, let me use my brain.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Between a songwriting versus maybe like copywriting or, or ad copywriting, none of that, right?
Speaker: So, so is there a commonality?
Speaker: Does the brain work differently or how?
Speaker: Um, that's a good question.
Speaker: I think ad copy, I use probably more the logical side.
Speaker: Because I'm trying to use what customers would say about us.
Speaker: And then songwriting is all, is very emotional.
Speaker: So it's like pure, pure emotion.
Speaker: But yeah, the ad copy is more like, okay, so what do people want to hear?
Speaker: What do people want?
Speaker: What would someone on the other end, what would I want to know?
Speaker: What would I want to
Speaker: like see from the other side and putting myself in their shoes.
Speaker: Great, great.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: And you've done some viral campaigns, right?
Speaker: So the whole demand generation area, how have you seen it evolve over the last six, seven years that you've been associated?
Speaker: What's new?
Speaker: What has changed?
Speaker: What has not changed?
Speaker: What should not change?
Speaker: Yeah, that's a really great question.
Speaker: I love that question.
Speaker: So when I first started, it was all about SEO and blogging.
Speaker: It was all about SEO blogging and Twitter and Facebook and Instagram when I first started as a content strategist.
Speaker: And then when I went into demand generation, it was all MQL hamster reel, like just getting as many leads as you could as fast as you could and giving them to sales.
Speaker: And a lot of times they weren't qualified.
Speaker: And
Speaker: So how it's changed, I think, I think dark social is a really big thing.
Speaker: I think people want to learn from their peers.
Speaker: So, and people want to learn, you know, with,
Speaker: on the go and on their own time and not, they don't want to really be sprayed and prayed.
Speaker: That was a big, that was a big thing back then too.
Speaker: There was a lot of batch, I used to call it batch and blast.
Speaker: It was when you send out a sales email to 10,000 people and hope for five meetings.
Speaker: Like that's not, that's not scalable and that's not good conversion.
Speaker: So I think what should stay in something that we do at Caspian is we, I think,
Speaker: in terms of ABM, we use persona based targeting through podcasting.
Speaker: So like, for example, our customers will target a specific persona.
Speaker: Like for example, VMware has a CIO exchange podcast and they'll target CIOs and they'll bring them onto their podcast
Speaker: then they close 10 to 20% of people that they bring on.
Speaker: So like, that's something that I think is new, but I, or new ish, but I think it's here to stay.
Speaker: I think, um, co-marketing initiatives are really big.
Speaker: We've seen a lot of success with partner webinars.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: CEOs being influencers in their own run on LinkedIn.
Speaker: I think like people versus brands on LinkedIn, I think is big and communities.
Speaker: That's where I really see it.
Speaker: What's working now versus back then.
Speaker: Just so you talk about something called demand creation, you don't like, and then you consciously use that word you said, right?
Speaker: Explain that to us.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So I mean, that demand creation, I'm listening to Chris Walker's podcast for probably a year or two now.
Speaker: So that is ingrained into my mind, demand creation.
Speaker: And I follow all of his employees on LinkedIn.
Speaker: So I read about it all the time.
Speaker: But I guess in my own words, it's about engaging the 95% of prospects that aren't in market.
Speaker: So there's the 5% that
Speaker: you can either do assumed intent with ABM intent outbound, or you can just, you can do cold, cold ABM, like target your ABM accounts, but people that have no idea who you are.
Speaker: And if you're trying to build a category, building that brand awareness and through like stuff like, like the podcasting I mentioned, or, or, or webinars or, or dark social communities like that's,
Speaker: that's creating demand, putting your name out there.
Speaker: And you're really front and center.
Speaker: Like for example, we have this newsletter that is super successful because we're top of mind with like, for example, we'll have people sign up because they downloaded our ebook or people sign up for X, Y, Z reason.
Speaker: And we're top of mind
Speaker: until they're ready to buy.
Speaker: So for so we actually sent out a business murder verse, which I can get to a little later.
Speaker: We sent out a business murder verse product launch, and we got a ton of people that responded because they were already reading it for the past six months.
Speaker: So by the time we did like a soft launch, we got there were so many people that were interested.
Speaker: what do you package in a newsletter and how do you, like, what frequency is that typically?
Speaker: Yeah, sure.
Speaker: So it's once a week.
Speaker: We typically highlight an employee, highlight a customer, and then our CEO does an intro of his own, of a kind of like a personal spin.
Speaker: We like keeping it personalized and coming from him because he's really, he's the face of the company.
Speaker: We also sometimes highlight different podcast launches, but we don't,
Speaker: It's not really a sell.
Speaker: It's not like, hey, book a meeting with us.
Speaker: It's very much a nurture campaign.
Speaker: So it's really probably one of our top performing.
Speaker: The newsletters?
Speaker: Yeah, the newsletter.
Speaker: And how do you acquire subscribers?
Speaker: Do you promote it or?
Speaker: Inbound.
Speaker: Inbound, okay.
Speaker: Yeah, like they'll be on our site.
Speaker: Oh, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker: So you have kind of a lead magnet and then you use it, right?
Speaker: Give some value and then make them just subscribe or interesting.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And okay, so this whole thing is what we call it as demand creation.
Speaker: Yeah, so in a broader sense, I think it's about, like I mentioned, like engaging the people that have no idea who you are.
Speaker: Creating demand for your product when...
Speaker: they're not when they might not be in market, not because they don't like you or because they're not searching for the product, but because they just don't know who you are and they don't know that they even have a problem.
Speaker: How does it differ from demand generation?
Speaker: It's not a wordplay, I suppose, right?
Speaker: So there is some distinction between these two.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So demand generation, I'd like to
Speaker: I'd consider more, I'd associate that more with MQLs, demand generation.
Speaker: I think it is kind of basing out a little bit.
Speaker: I think demand generation is more channel based in terms of like generating, like you have a 5,000 MQL target.
Speaker: Let's do as much as we can to get those MQLs for sales.
Speaker: And I think
Speaker: That's really put marketing, I think, in a tough position.
Speaker: You hear around the LinkedIn echo chamber, like we can be arts and crafts and we can be arts and crafts and sales assistants.
Speaker: And that's something that I think demand creation is fixing.
Speaker: And I think demand generation also has more to do with demand capture versus, or excuse me, demand generation has more to do with demand capture than
Speaker: and more of like the MQLs and like targeting your list with ebook downloads, stuff like that, like very low intent quality links versus demand creation, which is more brand awareness.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: And how are you fitting something like an ABM?
Speaker: So if you have an ABM program running, right, so how do you marry this two?
Speaker: Marry the demand creation and ABM?
Speaker: Yeah, ABM, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so...
Speaker: We do a couple things.
Speaker: So we'll, so we participate in communities.
Speaker: We have our own community actually of, we have this podcast, our own podcast called Remarkable where we bring, so our ABM strategy is kind of different.
Speaker: I touched on a little bit earlier.
Speaker: So we create demand by having people listen when they want, how they want on the go.
Speaker: And then we capture demand
Speaker: by talking, they have such a great experience on the podcast that we close like 10 to 20% of our own pipeline through podcasting.
Speaker: So instead of cold outbound, like for example, we did an AB test where we did like our best performing cold outbound email.
Speaker: And then we did remarkable invites.
Speaker: And that was like a, I forget what the percentage increase was, but it was like a,
Speaker: 50%, 60% response rate, something ridiculous.
Speaker: And then closing 10 to 20% of those deals.
Speaker: And we're targeting very specific personas in our ICP.
Speaker: So we segment, target, position, or position target.
Speaker: So that's probably our best performing ABM strategy.
Speaker: So sounds like you're using podcasts and maybe a bit of newsletter as a way to channel and then bring these accounts that could be a possible shoot to your ICP and then you filter and then start doing some specific KBM campaigns, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, so newsletters.
Speaker: Oh, I was just going to say, so webinars too.
Speaker: We also do a lot of webinars.
Speaker: Okay, okay.
Speaker: So these are the things, different channels that are feeding your pipeline.
Speaker: And then what kind of activities do you do to nurture them?
Speaker: And how long does it take for you in your case?
Speaker: And what kind of more personalized interventions do you do?
Speaker: And what other channels do you activate as part of nurturing?
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: So we will do gifts.
Speaker: So we use, no, sendos.
Speaker: So like, for example, this T-shirt we sent out to different prospects, customers, friendlies, influencers as a holiday gift.
Speaker: But it's again like, hey, so we know you're going to deal with us.
Speaker: Happy holidays.
Speaker: We'll see you in Q1.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So to give them like a kind of like a hit.
Speaker: And we actually did it.
Speaker: We had them order a group order so they could pick their own size.
Speaker: A lot of times people will just get a gift and it's not or like a t-shirt or some sort of swag and it's not in their size, which can be not great.
Speaker: So that's one avenue.
Speaker: Another is we also use our CEO's LinkedIn because he's an influencer in his own right.
Speaker: So he'll
Speaker: He'll, I think a lot of times he'll, well not a lot of times, all the time, every time he posts something, he'll comment, he'll respond to all the comments.
Speaker: He's very active.
Speaker: And that also will nurture people that are already in pipeline because they've already connected.
Speaker: They'll see the next product launch or the new ebook or, you know, XYZ.
Speaker: And that will pull them more down the funnel.
Speaker: Like we've had some prospects
Speaker: that will, because we announced a webinar on LinkedIn, they'll go watch it because of LinkedIn.
Speaker: And they're already in pipeline.
Speaker: Who gets it to the webinar?
Speaker: Are these the accounts that is qualified and they're part of the nurture process?
Speaker: You invite them or I'm wondering what stage of their buying journey do they get to participate?
Speaker: We typically do...
Speaker: see, it's funny.
Speaker: So I consider, I don't want to say I don't believe in buying stages.
Speaker: That's not fair.
Speaker: But I'd like to say that we're pretty much open to everyone because the content that we talk about is top of funnel.
Speaker: But then if they want to learn more, we'll give them like something like an ROI calculator or six winning plays to drive pipeline with a podcast or podcast planning worksheet, stuff like that.
Speaker: So we have more bottom of the funnel content, but in terms of webinars, it's anyone that wants to join.
Speaker: We don't have specific criteria for a webinar.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Now, how do you get them to join your webinar?
Speaker: Is it through newsletter?
Speaker: Is it through social or is it newsletter or social?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And how frequently do you run those webinars?
Speaker: This is about, it's been about once a month.
Speaker: So we partner with people like Audience Plus and Demand Jump and Goalcast and we've run webinars with them.
Speaker: So we basically partner with MarTech companies because we're both targeting the same audience.
Speaker: So we both, everyone wins.
Speaker: It's a win-win for everyone for the co-marketing initiatives.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: And what kind of channels do you use for pipeline marketing?
Speaker: So somebody who's qualified, maybe there's an opportunity trying to convert.
Speaker: So are there programs specifically for them?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So we do paid.
Speaker: We'll do LinkedIn retargeting.
Speaker: So for example, we have a customer testimonial that, oh my gosh, when I got off the interview, I was like,
Speaker: I can die happy now because it was the best customer interview I've ever had.
Speaker: But we'll use that.
Speaker: We're specifically using customer testimonial single ad images with the quote.
Speaker: And then we also have a video, about a two-minute video for retargeting with our customer.
Speaker: And it's performing really, really well.
Speaker: Testimonials.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Right, okay.
Speaker: For online display.
Speaker: And this is for...
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This is for what stage is that like, Dofu, Mofu, Bofu?
Speaker: After they get into the pipeline.
Speaker: Probably Mofu, Bofu.
Speaker: Yeah, Mofu, Bofu.
Speaker: So we typically retarget if they click on like a Google, like a Google ad, or sometimes it'll be SEO driven.
Speaker: And then we'll get the cookie, which is phasing out.
Speaker: So we're all going to have to figure that out as marketers.
Speaker: But then we'll, and then we'll retarget.
Speaker: So mostly middle and bottom of the funnel.
Speaker: Got it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And how do you, when do you activate sales?
Speaker: When do the sales people get involved?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So typically, so for now, cause we don't have, um,
Speaker: We don't have alerts yet.
Speaker: We're still setting it up.
Speaker: So I was the first marketing hire on this team.
Speaker: So we're still building the foundation.
Speaker: But for now, it's when we do mostly inbound.
Speaker: So we'll do mostly inbound leads.
Speaker: And then we qualify based on just if they're an ICP fit.
Speaker: So we have gold, bronze, excuse me, gold, silver, bronze, just based on ARR.
Speaker: And then, so once I qualify, I'll put them into a sequence and then sales takes over because they'll respond directly to that email.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And how does the newsletter and webinars and others, what stage do they get to see and start seeing those channels or cut from those channels?
Speaker: So they'll go directly to us.
Speaker: So because of those channels, they'll come in inbound.
Speaker: So I don't want to say we wait, but they'll come in because of a lead, or excuse me, because of a channel, not the other way around.
Speaker: We don't really do outbound prospecting with the exception of, and the sales handoff is more like,
Speaker: is mostly inbound, but then we'll also do the remarkable invites for our podcast, which is more outbound.
Speaker: So the remarkable podcast is like you inviting a certain prospect into the conversation and then having a chat.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: It's our most successful channel.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Do you do this for all the prospects or do you select like what kind of criteria do you sort of use to pick up who gets to be the guest?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So we have an ICP.
Speaker: So our ICP is, so we have the gold, silver, bronze, which is the ARR.
Speaker: And then we'll have, it's mostly people in marketing.
Speaker: So, but not, but our primary is VP of brand, CMO,
Speaker: I'm trying to think what else.
Speaker: Oh, director of content strategy and mostly more content like brand and brand.
Speaker: And then like a secondary would be like a director of demand gen, stuff like that.
Speaker: But it's more of the persona.
Speaker: Got it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And then what do you generally talk in this podcast?
Speaker: Is it very educational nature or are you trying to uncover problems?
Speaker: Do they have or, right?
Speaker: So...
Speaker: either implicitly or explicitly?
Speaker: So like, is there a, like a, like a strategy that you have in terms of engaging them through the remarkable podcast?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We have a podcast prep call and a lot of times we'll gauge if they're interested in doing a podcast with us during the, during the prep call.
Speaker: And it'll be either be yes or no, and no hard feelings if not, and you'll still be on our podcast.
Speaker: It's not a gateway.
Speaker: But actually the content is really interesting.
Speaker: It's B2B content marketing.
Speaker: So for example, we did a podcast on Taylor Swift Arrows tour and the person you've, the person had, they discuss our CEO and whoever the guest is, we'll discuss the takeaways and the marketing lessons learned from that particular pop culture reference.
Speaker: It could, or,
Speaker: It could be the Matrix, it could be the Muppets, it could be the office, whatever they want to pick.
Speaker: And they talk about it.
Speaker: And I think it's really interesting because there's so many things that we can learn from B2C content and kind of like the Marvel universes of the world and all that.
Speaker: So I find it, I think it's a really good concept.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: And you talked about social selling or social conversation, right?
Speaker: So your CEO goes on like commons rights and all of that.
Speaker: At what point do you
Speaker: let's say, connect with your prospects, right?
Speaker: So you get this inbound request.
Speaker: They've done some, maybe they heard your podcast, right?
Speaker: So they go to your website, fill a form, and then they show interest, right?
Speaker: So they've got into the funnel, right?
Speaker: You're qualifying, handing it, or you're putting them into a sequence, and you're also activating your sales folks.
Speaker: And then, like, how do you layer the social element as part of this process?
Speaker: So we typically, like I mentioned, we do retargeting to move them further down the funnel once they are in pipeline.
Speaker: But in terms of accelerating pipeline, like I mentioned, we'll do gifts, we'll do, and then the CEO will, and then we'll do the newsletter.
Speaker: Well, cause they're all, everyone in pipeline is also the newsletter we'll do.
Speaker: And then we'll invite them to certain things.
Speaker: And then we'll send them more bottom of the funnel content, like I mentioned, like the ROI calculator, the podcast planning worksheet, the six winning plays.
Speaker: So we'll send them more like stuff that they can kind of figure out on their own.
Speaker: And then if they want to talk to us, they want to talk to us.
Speaker: If they don't, then again, no hard feelings.
Speaker: But we're still building it out, to be completely frank.
Speaker: I just built Salesforce from the ground up with a contractor.
Speaker: So now that we have Salesforce up and running, we can really look at the data and see and really dig into the data analytics and really get into, okay, who are the accounts?
Speaker: How do we engage them?
Speaker: Okay, they're in pipeline.
Speaker: How do you move them from one phase to another?
Speaker: But we had to get the infrastructure up
Speaker: within the past six months to be able to really start doing that.
Speaker: So actually it's funny after this call, there are most of today's heads down to do key one marketing strategy.
Speaker: But what's great is we have some data to work off of now in terms of what we're going to do going forward.
Speaker: Oh,
Speaker: How do you measure all this?
Speaker: So there's multiple channels, everybody is getting in different times.
Speaker: So what's your dashboard looking like and then how do you continuously optimize and those sort of thing?
Speaker: Oh, my dashboard is, it's so many colors.
Speaker: There are so many, it is so many colors because we have so many different- More green.
Speaker: What's that?
Speaker: More green.
Speaker: Oh, it's a lot of, oh, I meant like, because there's so many different lead sources.
Speaker: They come in so many different ways, but it's like basically a rainbow.
Speaker: Sorry, what was your question?
Speaker: I missed it.
Speaker: I was talking about like, how do you measure the impact and the influence of different channels and how do you connect all of this together?
Speaker: Yeah, so we're actually building that out now.
Speaker: So we're doing how...
Speaker: how the accounts are being engaged.
Speaker: So we'll do meetings book, we'll do, we have some vanity metrics in terms of campaign influence, but we mostly focus on revenue.
Speaker: How many deals are we closing?
Speaker: How fast are they going through the funnel or through this opportunity pipeline?
Speaker: What's ACV?
Speaker: How many contacts are we adding?
Speaker: Who's engaging?
Speaker: Stuff like that.
Speaker: What's the role of ABM Tech according to you?
Speaker: So you're doing some form of ABM and you've also been part of an ABM Tech company, right?
Speaker: So in your previous job, right?
Speaker: So what's your outlook on ABM Tech, right?
Speaker: So there's two views, right?
Speaker: So you don't need tech, you should do it like very manually.
Speaker: There's also the other side that you start like really looking for some automation and all of that and hence you need a tool.
Speaker: What's your view?
Speaker: Where do you stand?
Speaker: I think I'm in the middle.
Speaker: So I think it can go both ways.
Speaker: You can do scrappy ABM where you do very, well not basic, but you do very specific tactics.
Speaker: And then I think we're ABM, ultimately I think we're an ABM platform.
Speaker: What help is actually with the sales alerts.
Speaker: So at Sixth Sense, it was amazing because the,
Speaker: the salespeople knew exactly when to target the accounts.
Speaker: And that's something that we don't have yet.
Speaker: And that, I mean, we, we have, we might get Bambora, but in terms of getting like, knowing exactly when to target someone in the decision stage, I think that's where it really provides value because without it, that's pretty tough.
Speaker: It's pretty tough to know when someone is ready to buy.
Speaker: And I think that's where tools bring the most value.
Speaker: Well, you just touched upon intent.
Speaker: Like, how do you plan to use it or have used it in your workflow, right?
Speaker: So how does intent fit in?
Speaker: Oh, intent.
Speaker: So we're not doing that just yet, but next year we're probably going to start using Bambora for ABM intent outbound.
Speaker: So that would be more for outbound?
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yeah, more for outbound.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: And...
Speaker: personalization right so what sort of how how deep are this uh nurtures right so when it comes to like personalizes you do a lot of things right so how how are you able to sort of embed personalization and if at all you do any of that but what channel is it highly personalized so i think we're on the
Speaker: precipice of doing that.
Speaker: So right now it's one to many just because we're, we're a younger company and we're not like, we're not doing, we're not verticalized yet.
Speaker: But I think as we grow, we're going to do more and more of that.
Speaker: But,
Speaker: And in your past experience, I think you put a six sense, for example, right?
Speaker: So where have you seen personalization, for example, playing a bigger role, right?
Speaker: So content that's personalized versus non-personalized, you've seen a good lift because of the story.
Speaker: Is there any examples or?
Speaker: any interesting campaigns that you've run, right?
Speaker: Maybe like the wider one that specifically around the ABM product side of things that you wanted to highlight.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, of course.
Speaker: So Sixth Sense used a platform that hyper-personalized web pages for prospects.
Speaker: And I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker: That's something I'd love to bring on ultimately.
Speaker: But
Speaker: They did it by, I think they did it by vertical and title and potentially name.
Speaker: And I thought that was brilliant.
Speaker: I thought that was a really great, I partner with them to help them do that.
Speaker: But it was really, really valuable.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: I think this has been a fascinating conversation.
Speaker: A lot of things around tapping into your experience, Julie.
Speaker: Any parting thoughts?
Speaker: Towards the end of the year, people are planning for next year.
Speaker: what kind of demands and ideas people should try?
Speaker: You talked a little bit about how we should get inspiration from B2C, right?
Speaker: Any thoughts around what are the untapped channels maybe, right, so that we should try for 2024?
Speaker: Yeah, great question.
Speaker: So something that I would love, and I think it's probably a few years out, but something that Netflix does fascinates me.
Speaker: They do predictive profiling.
Speaker: So they're able to recommend things to you based on what you like.
Speaker: And I would love for that to come to B2B.
Speaker: I don't know how far off we are, but I think like that and Amazon, I posted about actually on LinkedIn, Amazon, the way they recommend products
Speaker: to you based on your past purchase history i think that could be applied to b2b one day i think hopefully someday soon because i i think i mean there are a couple maybe like a trillion or two trillion dollar companies so they're obviously doing something right yeah sure absolutely if you have the tech what what is the how would you basically make use of it
Speaker: Yeah, so I think I would, so I consider, and a lot of people consider this website as a storefront.
Speaker: So I would want, so someone clicks on a piece of content and then you're based on their, and this might already be happening at least in its infancy, but someone clicks on a piece of content and then you're able to recommend either a next step or, and a lot of like Drift does this with conversational marketing, but you're able to recommend like a next piece of content.
Speaker: based on what they read before or, okay, so they're in this stage, maybe we'll give them a case study or we will give them an ROI calculator or maybe we'll give them XYZ based on what they read last.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: I think that makes sense.
Speaker: So how do you engage them?
Speaker: How do you make it more contextual, right?
Speaker: So when they choose to come, right?
Speaker: And if you're trading your website as a storefront, right?
Speaker: So you want to just keep them as much as possible.
Speaker: Great idea.
Speaker: Jody, thank you so much again.
Speaker: Thanks for taking time.
Speaker: And then it's been an interesting conversation.
Speaker: I think a lot of tactical stuff, and I think our audience would love to maybe...
Speaker: helps learning, implement, and try and implement.
Speaker: Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: I really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Thank you.
