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Inspire Club Ep #31 - Debra Corey
32 Plays2 months ago
In this episode of The Inspire Club Podcast, Matt Manners talks with six-time best-selling author and award-winning HR leader Debra Corey about her book Bad Bosses Ruin Lives. They discuss what truly makes a great boss, how vulnerability and authenticity drive trust, and why “showing up” for your people is the heart of leadership. A candid, inspiring, and practical conversation for anyone who wants to lead with humanity and impact.
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Inspire Club podcast by Inspiring Workplaces. I'm your host Matt Manners and it's great to be back for yet another episode with another inspiring guest.
00:00:22
Speaker
um Rather than any the updates today, i actually just want to jump straight into the conversation. um Excuse me, and I've got throg in the throat today, so that's always, always good.
Meet Deborah Corey
00:00:33
Speaker
and I apologise for that now, but I've known today's guest for a long time, um and they're a person who continues to push the envelope and and helps to drive change.
00:00:43
Speaker
ah With over 20 years of experience and an award-winning HR expert, Deborah Corey is a consultant, keynote speaker and six-time best-selling author who has been named one of the top 101 global employee engagement influencers multiple times.
00:00:58
Speaker
And that's a list that actually comes out from the inspiring workplaces. So a constant feature on there and deservedly so.
Impact of Bad Bosses and Leadership
00:01:06
Speaker
ah Deborah now pays it forward, helping organisations and leaders develop and deliver people with culture strategies that challenge the status quo and drive employee engagement business performance.
00:01:17
Speaker
No more so than with her latest book, her sixth, as we've just understood, Bad Bosses Ruin Lives. In Deborah's words, no one deserves to have a bad boss, no one deserves to be a bad boss, and no one deserves to have their life ruined by a boss.
00:01:30
Speaker
Bosses exist to enrich lives, not to ruin them. The truth is, even if you think you're a great boss, you might have bad boss traits lurking inside of you. This book serves as a call to action for those aspiring to be great bosses.
00:01:43
Speaker
I know i can relate to some of that, maybe a lot of that, and I know I want a copy and it is available to buy now. So without further ado, please welcome to the Inspire Club podcast, Deborah Corey. Hello.
00:01:57
Speaker
Hello. Thank you so much for inviting me yeah for this great conversation. Thank you. Thank you. So how how are you? What are you what you up to? I'm doing really well. It's it's really funny because you're right. We have known each other for quite a while. And as you're reading my bio, I thought, I don't think I've changed the years of over 20 years. I think I've kept that probably for the last five years. So um yeah, no, I'm doing well. um As you said, I've just um released a new book, which is just always so much fun. It's, you know, people people know how much work goes into writing books or doing any big projects. So it's always exciting to get it out there.
00:02:32
Speaker
Well, I'm in awe of you because I've been trying to write a book for about three years now and um it's still still on the drawing board. So um you know congratulations on yet another book. And I know that they have inspiring examples and such productive, held helpful steps into how to try and solve the problems that you address in the book
Inspiration and Mentorship
00:02:51
Speaker
as well. So for anybody listening, um please do go check it out and the back catalogue of Deborah's work.
00:02:58
Speaker
So, The Inspire Club podcast is quite straightforward. We always have our first question, the same question. um And we we love we love to hear the answers. So we'd love you to share a story about who's inspired you at work along the way and why.
00:03:15
Speaker
So the person that I think of, I've had lots of inspiring bosses, I have to say. So for anybody who's listening and I'm not using your name, apologies. um my most A lot of it is the recency effect. So my most recent boss was the CEO of my previous company. His name is Glenn Elliott.
00:03:31
Speaker
And he was the co-author of the second book that I wrote. And he was a constant inspiration because he would he would challenge the way I would think, which from an HR perspective was great. He would push me from an ah HR perspective, but also as ah as a leader. he just He just showed me that a lot of what um I write about in my book about being a leader is about being human, about being genuine, about admitting your mistakes. And my favorite story about this is that um i had we had just moved our offices and we had moved from having just this little canteen to having a proper like you know restaurant with people making food for you.
00:04:10
Speaker
And in the past, we used to do something where you could get like free Diet Cokes and free you know other types of soft drinks. And when we moved to the canteen and I spoke to my people, I thought instead of just giving them Diet Cokes that not everybody liked, I would give them an allowance.
00:04:25
Speaker
And they could spend their money however they wanted to on drinks, on lunch, on breakfast, whatever. And then somebody must have complained to Glenn about, you know, why don't we get free Diet Cokes? And bless them, he goes, well, no, of course you should get free Diet Cokes.
00:04:39
Speaker
So then when he when I spoke to him, like, Glenn, don't you remember we changed it? Now you get an allowance and and not a Diet Coke. And he did this public apology. I think he called it light like Diet Coke gate or something like that. and he just He just raised his hand, admitted he made a mistake. And he said, from now on, just don't ask me these questions. Ask Deborah. And I just thought it was such a human thing to do. And I think that, yeah you know, and he was a CEO.
00:05:04
Speaker
You know, he was a founder and a CEO and people admired him for it. And I really try to, you know, think of Glenn sitting on my shoulder all the time as I'm making decisions going forward. That's fantastic. Well, and thank thank you, Glenn. I'm lucky enough to know Mr. Elliott. You He is a great person.
00:05:23
Speaker
um And thank you for for inspiring Deborah. um You went on to write a book with Glenn,
Co-Authoring Journey
00:05:29
Speaker
didn't you? it Was that your first book indeed or maybe? That was my book. That was second book. And it's quite funny because you said how you haven't finished um your your book.
00:05:36
Speaker
And one of the main reasons he hired me, he hired me to do HR. That was my main job. But my other reason he hired me was to to write a book with him. he had been talking about a book for probably about three years.
00:05:47
Speaker
And he said, Deborah just wrote a book. You know, I interviewed her. She seems like the person who's going to try to help me get through it. And it was it was a fantastic, fantastic book. Again, he pushed and challenged me chapter word, everything about the book. And it's done really, really well. A lot of people have been inspired by it. A lot of people use it as the structure for their um for their people strategy, which is a huge honor that they use it.
00:06:11
Speaker
That is. I'm just thinking about Glenn and that story and your current book, Bad Bosses Ruin Lives. Obviously, this probably the and the the exact direct opposite of the example you've just shared about Glenn.
00:06:24
Speaker
shit about glenn Was Glenn in the in the forefront of your mind when you're thinking about bad bosses versus good bosses? and and And did you actually have to think about what a good boss is to think about what a bad boss is? i'm just just want to I thought it was quite a nice way to explore your new book whilst talking about that story.
Traits of Bad Bosses and Leadership Guidance
00:06:43
Speaker
Well, actually, there is a connection because when um so the book is based off of the model, the book I wrote with Glenn, um it's based off of the engagement bridge model. And there's 10 elements. And when we were writing the management and leadership element, I told him the story.
00:06:58
Speaker
of about a boss I had. And I said, this boss has ruined my life. And the phrase just sort of caught on. i think it was like four or five years ago. um And it's something that I've been wanting to write for a while because i went around the world and I would do talks and people would always come up and tell me their bad boss story.
00:07:16
Speaker
and but But I don't think that people understood what a bad boss was. So the whole idea of the book is, first of all, to sort of identify what what makes us bad bosses, because we're all bad bosses.
00:07:28
Speaker
I mean, we did a survey, 99.6% of people said they've had a bad boss. 80% of people admitted to being a bad boss. So I think if we could all just raise our hands, admit that we made mistakes. I mean, the book, like all of my books, is filled with the mistakes I've made.
00:07:44
Speaker
So of the 10 types of bad bosses, my co-author and I have at least one example of what of times we've been this bad boss. um But then also your point, what can you do well? And a lot of it going back to Glenn was inspired by him. You know, absolutely. When I wrote about the building block of authenticity and vulnerability, you know, Glenn is just going through those types of areas, but you know, he's not perfect and you know,
00:08:12
Speaker
he's if If you're listening to this, Glenn, I didn't use your name, but one of the bad bosses, an example of one of the things you did to us once, but you raised your hand and said, you know what? I did it wrong.
00:08:23
Speaker
It won't happen again. So, and I did that just to show that even when you're a great boss, we're all going to get things wrong from time to time.
Vulnerability and Leadership
00:08:31
Speaker
Absolutely. So yeah yeah I'm interested in using the word vulnerability there. I need i need to read your book um because that that's something that i'm I'm hearing more and more often as one of the absolute fundamental key traits in being a good boss is to so have the courage. So that's and another word to go ahead of this, but have the courage to be vulnerable um with your people.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting because um there's 14 building blocks. And when we wrote about um vulnerability and authenticity, I love that you use the word courage, because what we say is what makes these two different than any other building block is that it's courage.
00:09:11
Speaker
You know, things like, you know, some of the other building blocks are things like trust, respect, communication, listening. Those are all things you do to someone else. Whereas vulnerability and authenticity, you have to have the courage to show that to someone. It's a completely different skill set.
00:09:27
Speaker
And that's why I think Glenn was such a role model to me because I had always been told you don't do that. you know You do not show that side. You are a boss for a reason. I've had bosses say that to me.
00:09:39
Speaker
I hired you for a reason. You need to be strong. You need to be tough. You cannot show any weaknesses. You cannot show you've made mistakes. And yeah, well I know. I've got that that those people on one shoulder saying one thing. And luckily Glenn's screaming louder in the other shoulder.
00:09:54
Speaker
Wow. Okay, so I don't whether we've covered this off or not, but um the the new part of the the podcast is actually talking about ah the negative experience that has driven you to to to to do good.
00:10:05
Speaker
So yeah have you is there one memory from work that you go, never want to do that to anybody, and I'm going to work hard to make sure that never happens in an environment I've got control over?
00:10:17
Speaker
Yeah. And it's interesting because, again, one of the reasons I wanted to write my most recent book is that I've gotten it wrong as a bad boss myself. And um I've got a got a couple examples of that. But my funniest one is when I first moved from U.S. to the U.K. and I was a first time manager.
00:10:35
Speaker
And I didn't know how to lead. you know I was American. you know Back in the States, you just say it as it is. you know If someone does something wrong, you go in circles. just tell them as it is. Now, this was 20 years ago.
00:10:48
Speaker
um And I just remember that about a
Learning from Mistakes
00:10:52
Speaker
month into the job, a very brave employee came up to me and told me that they had a Deborah Corey support group and that every Friday they get together and share stories of how I had made them cry.
00:11:03
Speaker
And it was one of those aha moments where, first of all, I realized i need to talk to my people more often so that I know that I'm doing these things. you know i waited a month before I had this conversation.
00:11:14
Speaker
But also, I need to be a bit more sensitive, a bit more empathetic, a bit more. you know i now work with global people. So I need to understand cultural differences, you know diversity differences. um And my goal in life is not to make anybody cry.
00:11:29
Speaker
Except happy tears. Happy tears are okay. But it i don't want I don't want to make anyone have sad tears. No, well, and thank you for being you know vulnerable there, sharing a story about yourself. I think it's usually the stories we usually get are definitely about other people rather than the stuff they've done themselves. So thank you.
00:11:47
Speaker
um Oh, can we cut that out then? Just kidding. Oh, absolutely not. That's in. That's in forever now. It's in the book, so I can't hide from it. but yeah Yeah, fantastic. um what's the What's the best experience at work you've ever had, if you nail it down to one, and and and what was it?
00:12:07
Speaker
um I'm going give you two, only because I've had two parts of my career. I've got my HR corporate role, and then I've got my new role. So my corporate one, and it's a silly one, but I think of it all the time, is I remember I had done um a project. I had done total reward statements, which these days is not anything new and exciting. It's just something we all do.
00:12:26
Speaker
And I remember I worked for Gap at the time and I went to Paris with a colleague and going into the store and the store manager was like so excited that, you know, we had done this amazing thing for him and it was like life changing for him and he loved it. And as the French do, he just started, he took my arm and he started kissing my arm all the way up.
00:12:45
Speaker
Like, thank you. sex That's the opposite of the other story. Right. And he's like so grateful. And the reason I love that is it just reminds um us of the difference that we make in people's lives.
00:12:57
Speaker
And um' I'm sure in HR, you know, things get so crazy sometimes we forget about the differences. um And we do. I had somebody on a post the other day I worked with 20 years ago who made a comment about how I had changed her life because she made a joke about it. She goes, I almost i almost bullied her into joining the pension scheme or something like that. yeah And she goes, I will forever be grateful that she did that. So um that's why I like that story.
00:13:23
Speaker
that's that's That's a lovely and love your story and also a lovely sentiment there. I think that obviously we we have the top inspiring workplaces and we we we're driven to recognize people like yourself when you're in and the HR side of it and the corporate world, because you just can forget how much work you're doing, how much work your team's doing, the impact you're having, and to step back and be able to say and shine a light on that great works. Fantastic. And um if you don't mind me sharing something a little bit personal, because what you but you've raised made me think of something. mike
00:13:57
Speaker
My uncle sadly passed away recently. He's a great man and it had a great life. um And, He's quite old when he passed, so in his 80s. But um he's had...
00:14:09
Speaker
people who were interns for him 30, 40 years ago, yeah you know, coming and but visiting and sending cards to my auntie and saying the impact that he had had on them and their life all that time ago.
00:14:23
Speaker
and it's just a really nice story share there, just to remind you that the impact that we can have on somebody, positively or negatively, um day in, day out at work. So it's I'm really grateful for you sharing showing that story.
00:14:37
Speaker
but other for that story um And so what what what about the positive experience in your new life, in your new working life?
Memorable Work Moments
00:14:47
Speaker
but You've seen me present and you know that I absolutely love standing on stage. It's one of my most favorite things to to do.
00:14:54
Speaker
um And I had the pleasure of having my husband and my son join me when I spoke at an event in my while Berlin. And it was just it was just so magical having them in the in the audience with me.
00:15:07
Speaker
um And of course, embarrassing them at the end. But yeah, that was that was an amazing experience. um I did the same thing with my daughter another time. And, you know, just being able to, going back to the difference that they made, you know, my kids were like, oh my gosh, mom, I didn't know that you did that.
00:15:22
Speaker
Oh my gosh, wasn't that wonderful, the conversations and how you all like came up with these ideas together. And yeah, it was it was very inspirational for me. Yeah. how How do you, can you compare ah two careers?
00:15:38
Speaker
can you do you like one more than the other? is that Or is that just a mean question to ask? Oh, it is. Do you know, though, I couldn't have done one without the other. So I think what gives me the confidence every time I go out and work with a client or every time I stand on stage, people joke and say, I've got a story for everything, or I've got an experience from everything, either good or bad. So I think they just complement each other so much. yeah um And that's what's nice. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I like doing not just speaking, but originally I was just going to do speaking, but I missed the um working with people in design. And that's why i I took a step back and started doing consulting again, because I just love being a part of teams. And, you know, that's what I can get through the consulting side. Fantastic. Fantastic.
00:16:22
Speaker
um What's a major workplace priority right now, in your opinion?
Leadership and Workplace Strategies
00:16:28
Speaker
Well, you know i'm going to say this because of my latest book, but it's not just because of the latest book. But um the reason that I wrote this book, and actually my fifth book, is that all of my other books have been for HR people.
00:16:39
Speaker
And I think as HR people, we do such an amazing job of designing the best strategy and the best program. But I'm sure we've all learned the hard way that if we don't get our leaders on board, if we don't get our bosses on board,
00:16:50
Speaker
Nothing is ever, ever, ever going to change. So like my fourth book I wrote was on recognition. And three months later, which is the quickest I've ever written a book, I wrote a book for managers on recognition because I thought I i need to help managers.
00:17:07
Speaker
So I do think that the biggest challenge we have right now and the biggest opportunity is just helping our bosses. You like my book is not pointing fingers at bosses and saying, even though the title is a bit in your face, I was a bit nervous about the title.
00:17:20
Speaker
um It is not about pointing fingers and saying, you're a bad boss. Just get over it. It's all about, you know, I'm all about supporting people and saying, okay, you're I want you to be great. I want you to be the best that you can be. And then that way, that's going to impact every single person.
00:17:37
Speaker
um And because the title is Ruin Lives, it doesn't just impact you at work. You go home and it impacts your family as well. So it's that whole continuum. Yeah, well, that's very true. There's...
00:17:50
Speaker
There is no divided line and between work and home now. It impacts you both inside and outside of work. And that has always been the case. We just so tried to believe it wasn't.
00:18:05
Speaker
You just said something and that raised a question in my head there. Yeah, I suppose you talk about managers and, you know, that's for me usually the place where good engagement strategy succeeds or fails and has always been so but I've been talking about this for a decade now and it's still the same I'm not asking you for a silver bullet though because obviously you've given steps to things but why is it why are we why we finding it so hard to
00:18:36
Speaker
give managers what they need?
Challenges in Managerial Support
00:18:39
Speaker
Well, part of it is because it keeps changing. Let's be real. yes Yeah. So, you know, every time we think we figured it out, it changes.
00:18:49
Speaker
um So I think that's part of the problem. You know, a boss's job is not easy. And I think the biggest the biggest problem is that we don't give our bosses not just the tools and the support, but we don't give them the time to be a boss.
00:19:03
Speaker
We just say, okay, you're a great individual contributor. I want you to be a boss. but they don't take away any of your individual contributor job, you know, responsibilities. So we're setting people up for failure before they've even, even begun.
00:19:17
Speaker
So I think there's something to do with that as well. Just taking a step back. And it's like when people went, are going back to four day work weeks, one of my pet peeves is you think you can just take a five day work week and then just magically make it a four day work week without taking a step back and stripping back all the things that you don't have to do so that you can do it in four days.
00:19:37
Speaker
I think the same thing is with bosses. What can you strip away so they can genuinely focus on their people and do it well? Yeah, no, no, good point. Good point. Well, on four day work week then. So what what is your view on the four day work week?
Views on Work Flexibility
00:19:51
Speaker
um We also got a little, little inside bit there, but a more, where, where do you sit? Do you know, i have to say I'm on the fence. I love the idea only because I'm all for flexibility.
00:20:04
Speaker
And it goes back to what I said at the beginning about the diet Coke versus the allowance. I think for some people, four day work week works perfect. Other people, would rather do a half a day, six days a week or something like that.
00:20:18
Speaker
To me, I think any decision needs to be based off of what's worked right for the business and what's right for the people. And I know some companies where four-day work weeks are brilliant. It works so well because you get the work done in in that more you know it in that shorter timeframe and you've got time to ah to recoup.
00:20:36
Speaker
But the goal to me getting that balance and being able to get your work done, step away, not be stressed about it. But what I love about it also is that it focuses on the idea that, you know, sometimes two days is not enough to unwind.
00:20:48
Speaker
You know, we need a bit more. But again, I think it depends on on you. Like me, ah if in my perfect world, I love working. I'm a morning person. I would love to start work every single day at five in the morning and work till one and then go hiking the rest of the day.
00:21:04
Speaker
To me, that would be nirvana, but that won't work in every company. So it it needs to work for the company too. It has to be two ways. Yeah, well, I echo your sentiment on the 5am to 1pm. I'm the exact same.
00:21:19
Speaker
um like That's my best thinking as well. after Mid-afternoon onwards, I'm useless. But I love the idea of it. I think it's going to move people in the right direction, which is brilliant.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, and ah absolutely. ah Flexibility is key. Personalisation, but Because we've been we've been trying to... Our goal is a four-day work week. um And we've been doing a nine-day fortnight for about 18 months now.
00:21:47
Speaker
And we just haven't got there yet because we just keep listening to the team and we're going... And we're going... There's too much for us to do right now as ah as the team we are to to go fully to the four days. So alternate weekends is perfect.
00:22:02
Speaker
So you're having that nice blend of having that longer weekend every fortnight um and and focusing on productivity. So, you know, it's definitely been a positive step for us. and We'll we we all get there. But at the moment, the team is saying there's no rush to to get to the four days every week. So I think flexibility and...
00:22:21
Speaker
yeah so Yeah. I was going to say, but I think that's good. I think you're admitting that you're not there. I interviewed a company. um I think I might've met them at one of your events. They were from New Zealand and they were one of the first companies to do four day work week.
00:22:34
Speaker
And what I loved about what she said is that they spent six months going back, sitting in conference rooms and dissecting every single process so that they could strip things away.
00:22:46
Speaker
um And to me, that's just brilliant, especially with AI now. It's like that should be able to help us do things quicker. um But you shouldn't do it until you're ready. So, no, I love what you guys are, your thought process, and at least you've got that goal and objective.
Essence of Leadership Support
00:23:01
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. Well, this is obviously a regular question and and probably quite hard for you to answer, maybe, because there are many traits in your new book. But what do you think is the most important quality in a leader?
00:23:14
Speaker
Ooh. Yeah. I guess if I had to sum it up, and funnily enough, I just wrote a post on this, um is to show up for your people. I'm obsessed with college gymnastics in the US. s I was a gymnast and I was watching this one coach be interviewed and she talked about my my goal as a coach is to show up for my people.
00:23:35
Speaker
So to look at my person while they're in the gym, as they're a student, as they're a human being, and to show up for them and support them and care for them however they need it.
00:23:46
Speaker
And I think that's the the first step. That's why it's a really basic one. But if you don't show up for your people, you're never going to be able to do everything else. so i would i would And that sort of condenses some of the things that I have in the building blocks, things like support and trust and respect and all of those types of important things.
00:24:06
Speaker
Love it, absolutely love it. My favorite question, um what's the best advice you've ever been given?
Advice on Credibility and Effectiveness
00:24:12
Speaker
And if you want to share who gave it to you can, but you don't have to. Do you know, it's interesting because everybody's advice is based off of where you are and what you what you do.
00:24:22
Speaker
And my biggest problem that I have as ah as as ah as a person in work is that um I love being a part of things. I want to get involved in everything. um Even if I like agree with what someone's saying in a meeting, I want to play devil's advocate.
00:24:38
Speaker
And although that's good, it i was annoying. So probably the best piece of advice that changed my life was ah his name was Steve Finland. And he was my boss when I was at Gap.
00:24:50
Speaker
And he pulled me aside one day and he said, you know, I love your passion. I love your energy. But you need to be more selective. figure out what you want to fight for. Because if not, people aren't going to listen to a single word you say. They're going to be like, there's that Deborah Corey sharing her opinion, yada, yada.
00:25:08
Speaker
So, um but I think what it did, it it sort of transferred into other aspects. So like when I communicate with my employees, be selective about what I'm going to say when I'm designing a new program, be selective. So it had a more widespread, but it was really like the, the first of the domino effect that made such a big impact. So thank you, Steve, for that.
00:25:29
Speaker
Fantastic. And great, great advice as well. I think everybody can always take away a little bit of some advice in different ways. So that's be more selective, Steve Finland from GAP. Thank you very much.
00:25:42
Speaker
um Do you have a A go-to productivity trick that helps you get
Organization and Stress Management
00:25:47
Speaker
things done? Well, writing a book, I imagine you'd have to have some sort of, some so cheats to to be able to get your work done.
00:25:55
Speaker
um To me, it's all about organization and structure, which is funny because um if you look at my personality style, I'm not an organized person. But when it comes to book or projects or chaos or anything, it's just sitting down, getting organized. It also takes away the stress because sometimes it just seems like there's so much coming at you and it's just so much out of hand.
00:26:20
Speaker
And sometimes if you can just sit down and write it down or post or whatever your approach is, it can just sort of calm you down. It's like, okay, you know, the book is has to be finished in three months.
00:26:32
Speaker
I've got six things to do. If I do the math, you know, i do one every two weeks. The world is a happy place.
00:26:40
Speaker
So I'm going to dig a little bit deeper in that one then because I i love organisation and structure too because i I'm also, well, I'm not saying you are, I'm chaotic. I've been known to be chaotic and I'm further writing lists on notepads.
00:26:55
Speaker
I'm um thinking about, try and I tried this new AI tool called Motion the other day and Asana and all these different things. But I keep coming back to this notepad and I basically keep repeating different lists and hopefully whittling them down and getting some stuff done.
00:27:10
Speaker
So I asked you, what how do you organise and structure your work? Because I'm always up for any kind of other way of doing things. um You know, I'm not a very good person. It depends on the project also.
00:27:22
Speaker
Sometimes when I really, really, really need motivation and I apologize to trees, I need my post-it. So for example, when we were writing the book, there are 14 building blocks, which is just huge, huge, huge.
00:27:36
Speaker
And it it got to the point where i asked my my co-author, who happens to be my husband, I was so stressed. So I finally, i put them, I've got like a ah glass window in my office and I put the 14 of them on one side.
00:27:49
Speaker
And then every time we'd finish it, I'd move it to the other side. So it was a little bit about organization, but also about appreciation. And just the whole, ceremony like when we'd finish it, it was a ceremony. We're going to move the post-it from one side to the other.
00:28:02
Speaker
And it was just so exciting. So I do think that, you know, there are tools out there where you can do visual post-its also. But to me, a little bit about having it in front of me all the time. But also the celebration to me is just as important because I can look and see, oh, my God, you know, look, there's more on the left side than the right side. I'm getting there type of thing.
00:28:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely better than a line through a tick. That's definitely they more more celebratory than that. Yeah. I mean, but even when I do things though, online though, I color code them just to be able to celebrate it. So like if something's done, i don't take it off my spreadsheet. I leave it green.
00:28:38
Speaker
Even if I have to scroll down it just because I just, I need the excitement of knowing I did it. Amazing. Amazing. I'm sure that resonates with plenty on this podcast. um So a few have fun questions to finish.
Personal Preferences and Routines
00:28:53
Speaker
Um,
00:28:54
Speaker
So early bird or night owl? Well, I think we know this one. But
00:29:01
Speaker
I'm assuming an early bird. Well, work, I'm an early bird, but I could watch TV till three in the morning. so Yeah, me too. Yeah. So unfortunately, yeah, i'm not I'm not the best when it comes to that. But yes, I'm much better working in the morning.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, the advent of Netflix and box sets was definitely not helpful for my way of watching TV. You know, when when you had to wait the one week to the next episode, that that helped me out a bit more. Absolutely.
00:29:28
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:29:31
Speaker
So, favourite album, which is which is I know is an almost an impossible question. ah And what song is your go-to song? You need to get fired up to do something. um Well, my daughter just had a baby.
00:29:46
Speaker
So my favorite. Congratulations. Thank you. So um it's it's not necessari necessarily my favorite, but um back in the States, I love the group called Trout Fishing in America and they do songs for kids and they're just the funnest song. So when my kids were little, we used to play their songs all the time. So I've been starting to play Trout Fishing in America.
00:30:08
Speaker
um My hair's got a party tonight. um All I want is a proper cup of coffee. So they've got really fun songs. So I'd say that that was probably it. But as far as to motivate me, um yeah you got to love the commitments like Mustang Sally, things like that, anything just to get me going.
00:30:25
Speaker
To be honest, I loved the music you played at the beginning of the ah of the podcast. that i was I got dancing for that. Yeah, Try a Little Tenderness by The Commitments. They're a great band.
00:30:38
Speaker
Great band. um Fantastic. I think we'll put Mustang Sally on, as you mentioned it, onto the Spotify playlist that we we we create for all our guests. So many different songs and The Commitments was yet to go onto the list. So I'm very happy to be adding that after this podcast.
00:30:55
Speaker
um
00:30:58
Speaker
How's some chores? What's the... ah The one thing you you leave hoping that somebody else might do it for you. No one ever does, let me just say it, but mopping floors.
00:31:09
Speaker
i don't go yeah I don't think anyone in the house even knows what a mop is. And I probably have bought five different types of mops because, you know, I'm all about tools, right? You have to have the right tools.
00:31:21
Speaker
So I thought if I bought a better mop, it would make it more fun. But at the end of the day, it's mopping. So I've gotten better at it now because I'm obsessed with Audible and listening to books. So right now it's not a chore because it just means I get to listen to my book longer.
00:31:37
Speaker
You just zone out and mop. Absolutely. we've got We've got a floor that needs mopping, but we we went and got one of these like cheap steam cleaner things that, you know, you just, so, because i always have far too much water when I mop. So this, that kind of helps me. And because I then get obsessed by it but making everything quite clean on the floor anyway. So, and I'm the only one who does that as well. So um I hear you.
00:32:02
Speaker
favorite mine I was going to say my husband um wants to get one of the little robot ones and then nobody, you know, so AI the whole thing. Yeah. You get the robot. wow We've got too much crap on the floor. I don't know how it would ever work in our house, but yeah, it's a good idea. Yeah.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah When they can work out how to pick up the socks and then, then keep cleaning, then that'll work. that will work Yeah. Or move the dog. yeah Yeah. Okay. um Favorite film.
00:32:29
Speaker
It's an oldie, so I don't know if anyone ever has seen it before, but it's called Knight's Tale with a K, and it was with Heath Ledger, who was who was a wonderful actor who unfortunately passed away way too soon.
00:32:41
Speaker
um What I love about it is it's a bunch of underdogs. I mean, they are just such underdogs. They're hilarious, and um I love a good happy ending, so yeah. that's That's a fantastic film. Paul Bettany as Jeff Chaucer. Yes, yes. Yeah, they they are rich they're real like... a glad tag kind of you know real real motley crew aren't they so uh yeah fantastic film i'm gonna go watch that this evening i think that i haven't seen that in a long time and the music is great for it the music is fantastic for it yeah they they do get get yeah yeah yeah you've sent me right back to that film now chanting gelderland and all that kind of stuff um uh so what's something you've done that we'll never do again
00:33:26
Speaker
um Again, since I just wrote this book, I've got lots of stories that are haunting me. But um one of the stories that i I share in the book, I don't think I wrote my name next to it, but I'll admit it now, is um I was in a meeting with my team. I had a global team meeting and everybody was, it was this big debate. Nobody would agree anything. And I was trying to let them between themselves, you know, come up with the solution.
00:33:48
Speaker
And finally, I just lost my temper and I'm like, okay, we're going to do a because I'm the boss and that's what we're going to do. And it was hilarious because everyone just cracked up laughing because it was it was not the type of thing I would ever do. And it was just the stupidest thing in the world.
00:34:03
Speaker
um So yeah, anytime I lose my temper, I just sit meetings and and giggle a little bit and then say something, remind myself of my stupidity. We've all wanted to do it though, haven't we? We've all wanted to do in a meeting.
00:34:16
Speaker
Just like pound your foot on the table. We're doing it because I say we're doing it. Yeah, ah but um I love the honesty. It's fantastic. um Where's the best place you've ever been in the world?
00:34:29
Speaker
where Where would you be right now?
Love for Iceland
00:34:33
Speaker
um Do you know, I have had such an amazing career being able to travel around the world. It was a really hard one, but I'm going to pick, I'm going to pick Iceland partly because I want, I want them to, I want things to get better for them.
00:34:45
Speaker
um I had the, I've had the pleasure of speaking there a couple of times at conferences and the people are just absolutely lovely. um It's just geographically. I mean, it's just so different than anywhere I've ever been. And I've been to the blue lagoon, which unfortunately is wonderful.
00:35:01
Speaker
right near where everything is happening. um It's just a really special place. And and i I'm thinking of all of you wonderful people in Iceland right now. Well, that's very kind. and It's on on the bucket list as well for for myself and my wife to Iceland. So it only makes me want to go even more now.
00:35:20
Speaker
So thank you so much. There's one more question. if you If you've got a recommendation, who would be a great guest for the Inspire Club and who we might go
Recommendation of Kelly Swingler
00:35:30
Speaker
look up? Well, I'm going to her event next week. So it just made me think of it. The fantastic Kelly Swingler, who is our person. And what she's really doing a lot of spending a lot of her time on right now is a very important topic of burnout.
00:35:45
Speaker
And speaking of personal stories, she talks about her personal stories and she's just helping so many people. And that when you when i you know when I saw that question, I thought, who could help people in something that's really important to everyone right now? And I think that you know she's absolutely inspiring.
00:36:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, and very passionate about such an important topic, like you say. So what a great recommendation. Thank you. um And I thoroughly endorse all your all your kind words about Kelly there as well. um Well, look, we've come to the end of the podcast. It's flown by, as I thought it would do. um Thank you so much for being a fantastic guest. Is there anything else you'd like to say or add before we sign off?
00:36:26
Speaker
No, I mean, thank you for doing it. I mean, I love the idea of, you know, inspiration. And I would just challenge everybody to um look for your inspiration and be your inspiration. Thank you. And where can people go find your latest book?
00:36:41
Speaker
Where's the best place to go find it? um Any online um book organization you can do. don't know if I say companies, but yeah, you could go do that. You can say whatever you like. yeah And since I'm about freebies, um there we set up a website. My co-author is ah is a techie. So we set up a website called badbossesruinlives.com and there's lots of free things on that. So check that out as well.
00:37:09
Speaker
Definitely everybody go check that out. I'm going there right now. I also love a freebie. So thank you so much, Deborah. It's been an absolute joy. ah can't wait if's the number book, book number seven, whatever that might be. I'm sure you're already thinking about it.
00:37:23
Speaker
And um I'm starting it already. Yes, I am. Yeah, i thought I thought as much. So we'll have to have you back on when when you've got book number seven. But thank you so much. I hope you stay well. I hope you enjoy your new grandchild. And yeah, speak to you soon. Thank you.
00:37:40
Speaker
Thank you very much. And thank you to everybody that's listened and continues to listen to the Inspire Club podcast. We really love your support. We hope you enjoy the stories as much as we love discovering them from our guests. And we'll see you all again very soon.
00:37:56
Speaker
Take care. Bye-bye.