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Inspire Club Ep #33 - Joanna Parsons
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In this episode of the Inspire Club Podcast, host Matt Manners chats with Joanna Parsons — CEO of The Curious Route, author of Innovative Internal Communication and award-winning internal comms leader. Joanna shares lessons from the best and worst leaders she’s worked with, why kindness is a workplace superpower and how “making a nuisance of yourself” became life-changing career advice. A funny, honest conversation about empathy, courage and the importance of listening at work.
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Transcript
Introduction to Inspire Club Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Inspire Club podcast by and so the Inspiring Workplaces Group. I'm your host, Matt Manners. Welcome back, everyone. For those regular listeners to the podcast, you'll have heard ah new intro...
00:00:25
Speaker
sound right there. i accidentally deleted that old sound, so had to add a new one. I've just realised that sound right at the beginning it sounded a bit like Father Ted to all those um people that used to watch that great show in the 90s, probably one of the best comedies ever written.
00:00:41
Speaker
So that will not be used. This will be a unique episode where that intro will be used and I'll be trying a new one. next podcast.
Meet Joanna Parsons, Our Inspiring Guest
00:00:49
Speaker
ah That has absolutely no link to our next guest whatsoever.
00:00:53
Speaker
um But we have the quite brilliant Joanna Parsons. And Joanna is the CEO of the Curious Route, an internal communications consultancy practice based in Dublin, Ireland.
00:01:05
Speaker
um And recent author of Innovative Internal Communication, published by Kogan Page. um Let's be honest, if you haven't seen Joanna's amazing content, take on things, advice on LinkedIn and other platforms in the last 18 months, where have you been?
00:01:21
Speaker
um Joanna is also one that has been an esteemed judge, an independent judge for the Inspiring Workplaces Awards in 2024 and will be returning to the panel in 2025. Without further ado, welcome Joanna, how are you?
00:01:35
Speaker
I am great, thank you for having me and I love Father Ted by the way so I'm so excited I get to be the only podcast guest that gets that special The only one now. i'm now actually I've actually actively deleted it, so I will not be able to post that ever again. so but There you go. um yeah so i'm I'm glad there is a unique ah podcast in that, but I'm sure for other reasons that will soon evolve. but and We usually like just to jump straight in.
00:02:03
Speaker
ah These podcasts ah take care of themselves
Inspiration from Empathetic Leadership
00:02:06
Speaker
in a sense. so We have one rule. um on the Inspire Club podcast, and that's to share a story about somebody who's inspired you at work along the way and at who they are, if you want to share that.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, I once worked in a place where a new leader came in to join our existing comms team. And it was a funny kind of a place because it was quite hierarchical.
00:02:30
Speaker
And the current boss we had was bit of a maniac. And this new leader came in and She really inspired me the way that she came in. I was quite junior at the time. And I always thought that leaders came in and sort of broadcast changes and just kind of push their way through changes. But she came in and she just listened and she observed and she was super thoughtful and she didn't make any changes for ages. But when she did, they were all really empathetic, important, impactful changes.
00:03:04
Speaker
And she always listened to the whole time I worked with her listening was the number one thing. And really that she had that sense of curiosity, which I love where she's always challenging assumptions. And she was just a wonderful, wonderful human being. And she has always inspired me.
00:03:20
Speaker
um is it possible to give her a shout out by name or do you want to keep it? I better not. Cause I just said that my other boss was a bit of a maniac. So I don't think and weird yeah if she's listening, she'll know who she is.
00:03:33
Speaker
Okay, good. Well, thank you so much, um, for, for inspiring Joanna. Cause we know, uh, what, what a, what a career you've gone on to have and are having, um, looking forward to seeing what's next.
00:03:45
Speaker
Um, ah something quite new to the podcast, and I'll stop saying that relatively soon, as I've done it a few times now.
Lessons from Negative Experiences in Leadership
00:03:53
Speaker
But I like to explore a negative experience that's produced and a positive out output. So something that bad has happened, but has inspired you to do good or has driven you in some way.
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah, I suppose and almost like the flip of that great experience I talked about. I once worked underneath a leader who was, I suppose in it word a word, bully.
00:04:18
Speaker
And she wreaked absolute havoc on the place. And the people that reported directly to her spent all of their time putting out fires, trying to rebuild the relationships that this woman was like ruining. And I remember very vividly being at one of her team's desks.
00:04:35
Speaker
And she had a bottle of, don't know if you know those things, they're called calms. It's like little tablets that you take to calm yourself down. because she was so stressed every day. This girl was crying in the bathroom three times a day.
00:04:47
Speaker
And this woman was absolute wagging. Do people say that outside of Ireland? Wagging, like a terrible person. But she's always kind of been my North star of how not to behave.
00:04:59
Speaker
yeah Like what would she do in this situation? Oh, I'm going to do the opposite of that. So it was a horrible experience and it was terrible, but it's always stayed with me to kind of help frame leadership behaviors and how to actually be a great leader by doing exactly the opposite of what she would have done.
Key Qualities of a Good Leader
00:05:15
Speaker
I'm going to I'm just going to do something a bit different there and go, what, so what is the most important quality or qualities in a leader in your opinion then, uh, based upon that person and the opposite of what they were like, what do you think a good leader exhibits?
00:05:30
Speaker
Well, if I think about her, she never listened. yeah And if I think about her, she really had no empathy. Like it's not that she didn't hear people's complaints or maybe or understand. She just didn't care.
00:05:43
Speaker
She just didn't give a shit. Can I say shit on your podcast? I don't know. you can say shit if you want. Yeah, sure. So it's that bit of like, you know you're not just leading a team, you're leading people and people need to be listened to and understood and valued.
00:05:57
Speaker
Like when did that when did that drop off the radar as being important? That's fundamentally important. Do you think, and I'm not, ah no names or anything, but, and just now more general, do you think that she saw colleagues as people in you know it's a or just something that she had management over and power over?
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah, she loved the power. I think she saw people as a means to an end. And she would often take credit for other people's work because it was all about her getting credit. She was mental. I remember she had a the communications agency in the office one day And she was like in a conference room with them, with the door open, screaming at them.
00:06:38
Speaker
Like wow people were coming down the corridor going, what the hell is this? So strange. And what was kind of worse, bigger than her, was that it was like an open secret that this is how she behaved and it was tolerated.
00:06:51
Speaker
And I often think about when you think about company culture, what does your company culture look like? yeah It often looks like what behaviors are tolerated. And this is a really classic example of that. So you could have all the nice signage on the wall to say we're respectful and we love teamwork.
00:07:07
Speaker
But if you allow people to behave like that, when you know that they behave like that, yeah that's your culture. Yeah. And a bad culture at that, I've got a neighbor and they're going through ah really bad time at work right now where, and it's openly so sort known that this manager is really bad and five or six people have left because of this person and it's tolerated.
00:07:33
Speaker
And you're going, like you say, put it brilliantly about that's your culture, what are you allowed to be tolerated? So if we forget about this person and you had a clean slate, what would, what would be ah really important trait in a leader for you? Outside of curiosity.
00:07:49
Speaker
I yeah beat me to it there. think there's just something about, um, Like a leader that's happy to be on the same level playing field and a leader that is able to say things like, I don't know the answer to that.
00:08:05
Speaker
Or maybe your idea is better than mine. Something about humility or like having a growth mindset and a leader who is willing to surround themselves with people who are smarter than they are because they know that's better for everybody rather than a leader who actually doesn't want people smarter than them because they feel threatened by it.
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. Absolutely love that.
Purpose and Passion for Social Justice
00:08:29
Speaker
So it's been a big 12 to 18 months for you. And what but what's your what's your why? What's your purpose? What drives you on a daily basis?
00:08:39
Speaker
Can I be really corny here? There's something in me that just really wants to help people. I've had this from a very young age. Like when I was about,
00:08:51
Speaker
I must have been as young as 14. I started joining like letter writing campaigns with Amnesty International. When I joined university, I got really interested in like social justice.
00:09:02
Speaker
I really just wanted to make some sort of a difference in the world, whether that was helping people or helping policies or helping countries. I went on to study humanitarian development. I worked in the NGO world for years, and traveled all over the world. i always wanted to help. Now I'm doing that in a slightly different way.
00:09:21
Speaker
Now I'm helping people to communicate better at work because I know the impact that that can have and the ripple effect that that can have. Yeah. Not just on individuals, but in organizations.
00:09:32
Speaker
So I suppose I just want to, and I see so many communicators all the time that I work with and I speak to. who just feel really frustrated and really like, I love this profession, but God, it drives me mad.
00:09:44
Speaker
yeah So I help them to be more effective, but I also help them to have fun and enjoy what they do. Because to me, that's really, really important. Well, and you can see that. And I think you're obviously helping people directly through what you do as as a business, but what you're putting out onto social.
Social Media Strategy and Handling Criticism
00:10:01
Speaker
think you're helping people, you know, but stay sane as well, I think, he because, you know, oh, it's not just me that this happens to, or, oh, yeah, I recognize that behavior. i reckon that Yeah, that's a challenge as well.
00:10:13
Speaker
And you see it in the comments and on the posts that you make that you're bringing people together and actually going, yes, this does happen. Somebody's finally said it. and ah Because a lot of lot of problems like live in the shadows, don't they?
00:10:25
Speaker
And I think you've been really, really good at, if I can say that, bringing some stuff to the light in a really, really positive way. It's funny, you know, sometimes I get and DMs on LinkedIn from, I call them the content police, and it's usually men for some reason.
00:10:43
Speaker
Sorry. Oh yeah, well, it's not your fault, but and maybe they're listening. But they'll send me DMs and they'll say something like, oh, I saw that post you had on today. um I think you should have said X instead of y Or I saw that comment that you made.
00:10:56
Speaker
And I don't think you should be poking fun of things. I think you should be telling people, how to do things. And for me, sort of my approach to social media is I think you can sum it up as observe and report.
00:11:08
Speaker
So I am mirroring the real reflection of reality. Like this is the reality of working as an internal communicator, working on a culture based role. It's hard and I'm not here to pontificate or make it glossy. I want to observe and report. And I can do that in a funny way that also is relatable and helps people feel less alone,
00:11:30
Speaker
Sure, why not? Yeah, well done. Well, I it ah suppose nothing ever surprises me anymore, but I can't believe you get those kind of messages. So, know, well... You know, it's funny. I used to kind of... I used to think I had to defend myself and I would write back.
00:11:46
Speaker
And now I just ignore them. And if they do it again, I just block them. I just like, I don't make my content for you. I don't owe you a moment of my life. Goodbye. It's very liberating. It is very liberating. And yeah, like you say...
00:11:59
Speaker
There's nothing to argue with if they, if there's nothing, you if you don't reply, they have nothing in a vacuum. So it's the best way. And I'm glad, I'm glad you've, you've got that quickly. I'm sorry. You even got those, those messages anyway, but so many, so many thousands, hundreds of thousands love, love the content you're putting out there.
00:12:16
Speaker
Keep, keep it, keep it, keep going. um What's the best experience of work you've
Challenges with Irish Police During Pandemic
00:12:20
Speaker
had? And that could be working for yourself um or and when you've been employed. I love working for myself, but I will say the best employment I've ever had was with the Irish police.
00:12:33
Speaker
So I took a job in, God, it was 2019 as head of internal communications with the Irish national police force. And I was the first head of internal comms ever. The organization was coming up on a hundred years in existence. They'd never had an internal comms team before.
00:12:48
Speaker
Wow. And I was recruited to come in and like lead it, set it up, establish a team. I remember that first day i was walking up to like the police headquarters in Dublin and I was walking up to this big gate and this big compound and had a guard at the gate.
00:13:06
Speaker
And I was so like, I was so intimidated beyond belief. And I was thinking, but they don't know that. They don't need to know that. You go in there and you own it and you do it. And then i was there about, was there just under a year when COVID hit.
00:13:19
Speaker
So I ended up running internal comms, during and a pandemic in an emergency service, which is an experience I never thought I'd have. yeah But I loved it because it was really hard.
00:13:33
Speaker
I didn't know what to do. I had to figure it all out. wish I had to really just be quick thinking and creative. yeah And I had a great boss, probably the best boss ever.
00:13:45
Speaker
um, Andrew McLean, and he's still the director of comms in there, but he was just the most calm, unflappable, like you couldn't get him flustered in a crisis. He was great and gave me a lot of autonomy, which is important to me. And i had a lot of free reign to do what i needed to do in the way it needed to be done.
00:14:02
Speaker
And, um, it was hard, but it was immensely rewarding. And I yeah lost loved, loved, loved that job. They often say that, you know, ah well what my ah my old boss, my favorite boss said, um,
00:14:15
Speaker
I'm going to make you bite off more than you can chew than chew like bleep.
00:14:21
Speaker
And that was my favourite job because it was i was in the you know you're not in your comfort zone and you and you do have a bit of a free run. You're learning and you've got to make yourself learn and trying things. And every day goes so so quickly as well. So, you know, you're not looking, you're watching those kind of roles. um so And thanks to Andrew McElinden for being such a great colleague to you.
00:14:42
Speaker
What's the best advice you've ever been given?
Career Advice: Making a Nuisance of Yourself
00:14:44
Speaker
And who was it by, if you remember or want to credit it to anybody? I started a job. It was a job with them an Irish financial services company called Irish Life.
00:14:56
Speaker
God, this is probably 2016. And um I met with one of their leaders. He's retired now, but he'd been in that company for about 40 years. Quite an intimidating man and such a wealth of knowledge.
00:15:11
Speaker
not just about, he was the director of strategy, not just about strategy, but about the organization and the culture and how everything worked. yeah And I went in to meet with him the very first time and just having a chat and kind of looked at me he said, can I give you a piece of advice?
00:15:28
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, like please. And he said, go and make a nuisance of yourself. And I kind of sat with that for a minute and I said, what? And he said, don't be waiting for people to invite you to meetings that you think you need to be at don't be waiting for an invitation to go and talk to people that you know you need to talk to go and make a nuisance of yourself and get yourself into the rooms that you need to be in that's how you're going to win at this place and that sat with me for years actually i met him in an airport last year he was on his way to play golf in his retirement and i was like you remember that thing you told me eight years ago he's like no
00:16:06
Speaker
And I told him, I said, I still think about that all the time. And he was flummoxed. He was like, really? But it was really good advice. Go and make nuisance of yourself. Yeah, that's fantastic because he's giving you permission as well, which is really important. like you've Not knowing it, but yeah, go go get involved, um which is so hard to do when you're new somewhere as well, you know, because you don't necessarily, human nature for for for many is just to not rock the boat and wait to be invited in. But that but he gave you permission by doing that. so Fantastic.
00:16:38
Speaker
um I love the fact that he doesn't remember either, but the impact people could have on you. Such a big impact, but um but not necessarily for them.
00:16:49
Speaker
um Where should we go
Importance of Kindness and Sleep in the Workplace
00:16:52
Speaker
next? ah in your In your opinion, what's the major workplace priority in this crazy world right now?
00:17:02
Speaker
Can I be a little bit twee maybe and say like basic human kindness? You can definitely definitely say that. I don't know if it's just an internal comms thing, like that's my world, but like there are so many people that I talk to who are like not sleeping properly at night yeah because they're really worried at a performance review the next day or there's been a sharp word from their boss and they're really upset about it or they just feel like they're treated really badly and they hate it, then the job market's crap, so they feel really stuck.
00:17:35
Speaker
And like now that I'm outside the corporate world I'm looking in, I'm like, how did we get here where it's okay to speak to people like this and we are human resources rather than human people?
00:17:47
Speaker
like If we were all a little bit kinder, like not for any expected benefit in return, just for the sake of being nice to people, yeah wouldn't that be a massive, lovely change?
00:17:58
Speaker
Yeah, just a just a little shift. you know just It costs nothing to be nice. And... ah people's behaviors do seem to change inside and outside of work. You know, would you, would you speak to your mom like that?
00:18:11
Speaker
ah Maybe, maybe you would, I don't know. um But I definitely agree. And, and being nice can make such an impact on people's day as well.
00:18:21
Speaker
um Especially if it's not expected. So just positive surprises throughout the day. I did try to like ah last year, I tried to do a thing where if I,
00:18:33
Speaker
had a kind thought in my head about somebody, I would make sure to get it out of my head and give it to that person. Even if it was something tiny, like, Oh, I really liked that post you made on LinkedIn or that thing you said was really funny, or I really appreciate that you helped me. Didn't matter what it was. I really liked that t-shirt, whatever it is like spit it out. It doesn't cost you anything. doesn't take you any effort or time, but it might just make somebody's day.
00:18:55
Speaker
ah It'll have a massive impact. A great person. Uh, I'm sure you've come across called Chester Elton. Um, a lovely man out of New York, New Jersey. And he is all about yeah the appreciation apostle, I think was one of his nicknames. and ah You'll look him up on LinkedIn, everybody, if you've not heard him.
00:19:15
Speaker
At the beginning of his keynote sessions, he'll get everybody to get their phones out and actually just send a message to somebody and say why you're grateful for them being your friend or family member, just to send out that kind of vibe to the world. And it's incredible the impact it will have on somebody, having that positive surprise. So absolutely human kindness, I think, being priority right now. And add to that as well, that we should do that to ourselves too. Mm-hmm.
00:19:42
Speaker
I was having trouble sleeping one night last week and it's just, you know, and you're lying there you're like, oh, come on, come on. And then you're getting self-stressed because you can't sleep. And I had read somewhere on, I don't know, TikTok or somewhere, LinkedIn, like, why don't you run through some of the things you're grateful for that happened that day?
00:20:01
Speaker
And I thought to myself, my and immediate thought was, that's going to be really hard. I just had a normal day, like nothing happened. Yeah. then I was like, just give it a go. And I was rattling off 12, 13, 14, 15, like small things. Like I sat on the couch with my daughter and she cuddled in and put her head on my shoulder. And like, that was a lovely moment or like I had a really nice meal or like small things like that.
00:20:24
Speaker
But I have to say the impact it had on me saying that to myself, sure was great. I went off to sleep smiling. So that was such a small, simple little way of being kind to myself. Yeah, we're often our own worst critics and don't give ourselves a break often enough. um It's a really nice piece of advice that I'll try to practice that on a daily basis as well. But it's hard. Like anything, you've got to practice at it, don't you? You've got to try every day. I'm not even going to bother asking that one. um
00:20:58
Speaker
I don't think you'd swap jobs with anybody for right now, but maybe you would. If you could swap jobs with anybody for a day. but What would you do? What would you what do you go do for day?
00:21:08
Speaker
I would love, oh, yes. Okay. no Yeah. I'd love to be a panda keeper. Did you ever see those videos of like people, I guess they're in China because that's where pandas are. And they just like go into these enclosures with pandas and they like cuddle them and play with them and just hang out with them.
00:21:25
Speaker
And the pandas are really derpy and silly and they're falling out trees. Great crack. I would do that for a day. a fantastic answer. Absolutely fantastic answer. um What's your go-to productivity trick?
00:21:40
Speaker
Boring but powerful answer. Sleep. Like sleep is the number one. Like when people are saying to me, I'm really stressed. I'm really frustrated. I'm like, how much sleep did you get? Tell me about your bedtime routine. Tell me about your morning routine.
00:21:53
Speaker
and I think we underestimate how important sleep is, particularly in this world where there's this really dominant narrative about productivity means getting up at 5 a.m. and doing three hours work before your kids are awake and working longer and doing more than anybody else.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah. But actually, i think that's nonsense. And actually, productivity can be about getting more rest so that you can be more focused and do work more efficiently. Yeah. And also, i just like...
00:22:23
Speaker
I don't like the idea of trying to do more and more and more and being busier and busier and busier. Like to what end? Like what's the point? There is something to be said about reframing how we think about sleep and generally about rest.
00:22:37
Speaker
That is productive in it itself because you are letting your body rest. Your brain is doing amazing things when you are sleeping and you are able to be more creative and you are able to think better and focus better. So like if you want to be more productive,
00:22:51
Speaker
Get more sleep. The best thing, by the way, practical advice that's helped me get more sleep, banishing my smartphone from my bedroom. So I'll go and brush my teeth. I'll do my face. And then my phone goes into my office to charge and I go into bed and I just go straight to sleep.
00:23:05
Speaker
I was losing like, I don't how much time, just scrolling nonsense in bed for like an hour. So I don't do that anymore. ye The old doom scroll. um Any good recommendations for alarm clocks then? Because that is my alarm clock. i've I've tried to banish it many times, but... um I use two. So I have one on my smartwatch.
00:23:25
Speaker
So that just vibrates my wrist. It's quite gentle. Yeah. I'll use that if I have to be up at a very specific time. But I also have one of those. i don't know if you know those like sunrise alarm clocks.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yes. There's like circadian kind yeah sales of ones. So what it does is it's like a kind of a half circle thing. sits on the bedside table beside me. And it will very, very gradually, over a course of like 20, 30 minutes, gradually brighten the room so that you will slowly wake up instead of like being jolted.
00:23:57
Speaker
And you will slowly wake up as the light gets brighter, as if it was mimicking like the sun rising. I've used that for about eight years and I love it, love it, love it. Well, I was going to ask, does it work? And it clearly does because you wouldn't use it otherwise. i always get worried. i always look the thing and that's a great idea, but I i like the jolt. but you know um But sleep, it's like you say, sleep is just everything. It impacts everything.
00:24:20
Speaker
um And, you know, talk about be being kind. If you know people have had a bad night's sleep, don't don't expect too much of them. I can't believe the difference in my own not just ability to work, but in my behavior, my mindset, the way that I speak to me, the way I'm like irritable with other people simply if I haven't had enough sleep.
00:24:44
Speaker
Yeah. Like, and it's such an easy fix to like get that good sleep hygiene, but you just need to prioritize it above scrolling and above anything else. Watching movies or whatever. Everything. Yeah. No, I can't join the dots. I can't join up my thinking if I've had a really bad night's sleep. So you'll get nothing out of me.
00:25:02
Speaker
Um, So, kind
00:25:09
Speaker
of really interested to know your take on this, actually.
Advocating for a Four-Day Workweek
00:25:12
Speaker
and There's been a bit a lot ah lot on it for the past few years. It's ramping up with governments around the world now as well, um Germany, Japan, the UK, Belgium.
00:25:22
Speaker
um what's your view What's your take on the four-day week? Oh, I'm all for it. I mean... The five-day working week, I think, came in with Henry Ford's factories. I don't know when that was, it's a hell of a long time ago.
00:25:35
Speaker
And I always wonder, like almost outside society looking in, and you think about technology as supposed to be the great enabler, supposed to give us more leisure time and free us up to do more creative, fun things as humans. And what a lie that has proven to be. It's actually just chaining us to our desk and we more and more it's going into this narrative of productivity again. Do more, do more, send more messages, do more slacks.
00:26:01
Speaker
yeah Nonsense. So I love the idea of a four-day workweek where we can actually just spend more time hanging out. And and like I'm a big fan of doing nothing.
00:26:12
Speaker
People who say to me, what are you doing this weekend? I'm doing nothing. And I can't wait. I'm going to do nothing all weekend. And that is my dream. So I would love to see the four-day workweek being adopted more widely, ah where people just have more time to just chill out and do whatever they want.
00:26:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a big fan of doing nothing. ah it's been I've had a crazy 12 months, and it's like one weekend to another, doing one thing or another or away or something, and we've started to like have nothing in the calendar at the weekends. I'm like, going this is fantastic. We've got nothing.
00:26:45
Speaker
It's such a relief, isn't it? Especially when you're like, I'm in my 40s now and you know you're in your 30s, everyone's getting married, there's a wedding every week yeah and then there's always something. But maybe it's maybe it's a getting older thing. Like love to do nothing.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's amazing how how occupied you are with nothing though. like we But we're doing things that we choose to do, you know. like We're doing nothing together. my wife and I, it's like it's fantastic. All for doing nothing.
00:27:11
Speaker
um So expanding upon that then, and listening to what you were saying, what do you think about governments, you know, bringing in laws like in France where you're not allowed
Work-Life Balance and Right to Disconnect
00:27:23
Speaker
to be contacted? i think, I think that think Australia's entertaining something like this that,
00:27:29
Speaker
your boss can't email you after a certain time of day. Is that going too far? Is that a good thing to protect us from all the technology? Like, it's a good thing. I think in Australia, it's got the right to disconnect, something like that. yes Like it's a good thing, but again, you'd wonder like, why is that necessary? How did we get to this point?
00:27:48
Speaker
yeah Like for me, One of the benefits that came out of the COVID pandemic was that remote working became so normal. Like I never went back to an office after COVID. I never, I knew that I never ever would. actually moved house like far out of the city because I knew I'd never commute to an office again.
00:28:05
Speaker
But the flip side of that with working at home is that the work life balance, don't love that phrase, but like kind of went out the window and it's like, oh, just jump on a call at eight o'clock, just be on a call at six the morning.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah. Like that has to be stopped. And if it takes government regulation to do that, great. I'm all for it. Okay, cool. Yeah, no, I think I am too. ah Like you say, it's what it's a shame that we need that. um But, you know, ah definitely definitely um worth looking into.
00:28:37
Speaker
um Right, so the quick, quick funnier, fun questions now. um ah If you're a teacher, what would you teach? Finger painting.
00:28:50
Speaker
Love that answer. it's First time we've had that one. Fantastic. It's about my level of artwork as well. um Early bird or night owl? Early bird, but because I have a young child, that's a force. Like I have no option. Like I'm up.
00:29:07
Speaker
ah Caveats with both this and the film question, but so favorite album, it doesn't have to be the greatest album of
Music for Motivation and Travel Memories
00:29:14
Speaker
all time or anything. And a specific song that you play, ah to get you fired up, motivated to get on with something?
00:29:21
Speaker
Ah, God, I'm so going to show my age here. Like, I'm still stuck in my grunge era, even though it's 2024. So my favorite band of all time is Pearl Jam. So like any of their albums, also probably like Queen.
00:29:36
Speaker
And if I want to get really fired up, so depends on the, I use music a lot actually as a, like, ah kind of an emotional a regulator or to change my emotion if I'm going to do an event.
00:29:47
Speaker
yeah a webinar or something and I need to get in a certain so if I want to feel more confident or I want to feel if I'm going into a negotiation with somebody that I know it's potentially going to be difficult I will put on Rage Against the Machine and I will listen to that really loud or if I'm going into a meeting where I just want to set good vibes and show up really positive and happy I'll probably just play some like 80s pop music that kind of thing The Rage, it's the song, is it?
00:30:14
Speaker
You'd played that? It is, yeah. I don't want to say it on your show, yeah, that's the one. The song. Pearl Jam, fantastic. I so i saw them a month ago.
00:30:25
Speaker
Are they still good? I saw them about 15 years ago, and they were brilliant. Yeah, they they are. um It was like one of the, I think it was the first gig back from their, no, second gig back from them getting unwell.
00:30:37
Speaker
And i you we were there and um in Spain. And I went, I turned around to Ivy, my wife, and I went, I feel like we're watching something special here.
00:30:50
Speaker
um And then you have to like go validate that. So I started looking at the reviews the next couple of days and they went, Eddie Vedder realizes that, you know, he came close to something and he just okay get came and gave one of the performances of his life.
00:31:04
Speaker
And it was so good. And i wanted to watch them for... years and COVID cancelled one of them in London so we're trying to find go see them and luckily we ended up seeing Pearl Jam and they're absolutely amazing so um one of their songs is one of my go-to get me um fired up songs. Which one is it?
00:31:24
Speaker
Animal. Oh yeah there's something about Pearl Jam they have like the energy that you can listen to it if you're angry but they also have like like soul and ah beautiful and like love. and Oh, they're amazing. I was so sorry to all the Gen Z that maybe are listening to this. They're like, who?
00:31:43
Speaker
Pearl Jam, darling, please listen. There's a new, there's a new album out now. And, you know, I'm sure they i they've probably been on stranger things at some point. They're probably, everybody knows them now, I'm sure, but there was a big, big young crowd in Madrid. Um, but yeah, absolutely love Pearl Jam. So I'm looking forward to putting rage onto the Spotify list as well. Um,
00:32:03
Speaker
What's your favorite film? And this isn't, again, like the greatest movie of all time. It's, again, i'm going to show my age. I do this every podcast. It's the one that you could just whack in the DVD player if it's raining outside. The film you can just put on and watch.
00:32:16
Speaker
The Labyrinth with David Bowie. Hundreds, hundreds times over. Amazing. I just introduced my my little niece to The Labyrinth for the very first time on holiday last week.
00:32:28
Speaker
What age is she? Because my daughter is freaked out by those puppets. She does not like them. The goblins were my favorite thing as a kid anne that they weren't her favorite things, but they were her brother's favorite thing, the goblins. um What a movie.
00:32:43
Speaker
What a movie. Like best ever. Yeah, absolutely fantastic film. um And yeah, that's, that's a big part of my life. That movie. yeah What a great film to have said. The labyrinth.
00:32:55
Speaker
David Bowie. um Best place in the world you've ever been. And if you could be anywhere in the world, where would you be right now? I traveled lot when I worked at an IGO, traveled all over Africa.
00:33:10
Speaker
and And I remember I really loved Uganda. Like the people were amazing. The scenery was amazing. Like I just had an amazing trip. I was obviously working.
00:33:22
Speaker
I remember having this moment where we stopped, don't know, we were driving like seven hours somewhere and the driver just stopped and he's like, And I looked out the window, my window was down by the way. So just picture this like Jeep in the window was down and there was three baboons, the size of toddlers. Like these were big, just sitting at the side of the road, staring at like big eyes, just like, hello.
00:33:45
Speaker
And I remember being like, oh my God, wow. And then I saw like the teeth are super sharp. And I had this realization of these are wild animals in Africa. gradually started rolling up my window like oh my god but it was amazing i've never experienced anything like it so i'm actually hoping when my daughter is bit older we're going to go back i think we'll do a safari maybe somewhere like tanzania and do a lot more traveling i would love to go back as a visitor rather than just for work yeah definitely um and if you could be anywhere right now would would it be uganda would it be somewhere else
00:34:18
Speaker
and Do you know what? I love where I live. I live in a little place like by the coast in Dublin and I'm on the beach most days for a walk. So that's kind of my favourite place just to walk along beach, take off my shoes, even when it's freezing because we live in Ireland.
00:34:32
Speaker
I just walk along the sea. That's where I would be most days of the week. Now, I'm not going to ask where because if that's a very personal, private But I'm going to say, I'm going to say my...
00:34:43
Speaker
like my My dad's side of the family, my grandma was born and raised in Portran. Oh yeah. I know it, yeah. So, uh, I, I always going up to Donabate and around there and, uh, having showing, showing the fact, my, my new family, uh, where my grandma came from. And they used to row their boats around into Dublin Bay and all that kind of stuff. So I think people are always surprised at like, what you mean you're in Dublin and you're on the beach?
00:35:09
Speaker
Yeah. Like, like nearly all the coastline of Dublin is quite nice beaches. Oh, stunning. Absolutely stunning. So and um now the rest of the family are down in Bray and we're clowing south, south, the other side. So um but from all over.
00:35:25
Speaker
um So it's a good choice to be exactly where you are. Any recommendations for future guests on the podcast? Who do you think would be a good person? I don't know if you've had Janet Kitchen yet, but if you haven't, you should get Janet.
00:35:41
Speaker
We have had Janet. So it's good, it's a good recommendation because now have we God, hang on. Let me think. I don't think we have. She's great. Yeah. Okay. She came in. i teach it a course on strategic internal comms and I get some guests lecturers in sometimes. And she came in talk about how to say no without saying no.
00:36:03
Speaker
And it was just brilliant. Everybody loved her and she's just She's of those people that's like clever and interesting and smart and insightful and also really nice and sound and lovely.
00:36:14
Speaker
Like how annoying to be all of those things. She is a wonderful person. Yeah, no, incredible person. And um yeah, I haven't, haven't had her as a guest. We have it, have it lined up so that that will be coming. So it's a very good recommendation because it's going to happen. um And can't wait to have that conversation.
00:36:32
Speaker
um So that'll be coming to you listeners. um so Anything you'd like to add? That's that's the podcast. um Really, really grateful for your time and and and sharing so many things. Anything you'd like to add before we we sign off?
00:36:49
Speaker
No, I enjoyed this because it just felt like a chat. I didn't feel like I had to really like, what are my key messages or what am I trying to convey? I'm just having a chat. I haven't done a podcast in while where I've just had a chat. It's lovely. Thank you.
00:37:02
Speaker
Oh, good. Well, stop thank you. um i just so um I'm glad you felt like that. And I hope everybody else listening has enjoyed it as much as I have. And... and um Yeah, this it just remind you, this is the only podcast with that intro theme music. So if you want to listen to that music again and us, then you're going to have to listen to Joanna's episode of this podcast. but But for now, I can't even close with the ah the music because I've deleted it already. So you are now going to get a preview to the potential next episode's intro music.
00:37:35
Speaker
Here you go. Thank you so much, Joanna. See you all soon. We'll be back with another episode and potentially this outro music. So there you go