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Inspire Club Ep #32 - Rachel Miller
38 Plays1 month ago
In this episode of the Inspire Club Podcast, host Matt Manners sits down with Rachel Miller, founder of All Things IC, global internal comms expert, author and advocate for wellbeing at work. Rachel shares the story of a boss who believed in her potential beyond a degree, lessons from burnout and the power of listening and trusting your gut. A warm, honest conversation about courage, kindness and building workplaces where people truly thrive.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to the latest episode of the Inspire Club podcast brought to you by Inspiring Workplaces. I'm Matt Manners and just played the wrong intro sound for those that listen to us regularly. So you'll have the correct outro sound ah coming at the end of this episode.
Meet Rachel Miller
00:00:25
Speaker
um I'm here today with with a ah guest I've known for a long, long time, um which I'm really proud of. um And today's guest is Rachel Miller. founder and principal consultant of all things ISEE.
00:00:39
Speaker
Rachel's internationally recognised authority on internal communication, advises professional communications via consultancy, training and mentoring. Rachel's also a chartered PR professional and fellow of both the Institute of Internal Communications and Chartered Institute of Public Relations.
00:00:57
Speaker
A regular keynote speaker and spoken at our conferences in the past, And her first book, importantly, first book, Internal Communication Strategy, was published by Kogan Page this year. Rachel lives with her husband, 11-year-old daughter, 9-year-old twin sons, tabby cat Amelie in London,
00:01:14
Speaker
UK and is fond of English breakfast tea, Lego, quality stationery and trying out new technology. Lastly, and definitely not the most important, but Rachel's been a judge for us at the UK and Ireland Inspiring Workplaces Awards on a number of occasions now, for which we are eternally grateful.
00:01:32
Speaker
So welcome to the show, Rachel. How are you?
Reflecting on Time and Planning for the Future
00:01:34
Speaker
I'm very well. Thank you for having me. It's nice to be here. Good. what's What's new in your world? Oh, we're planning for 2025 at the moment. as like most Most people working in comms at the moment are looking ahead for the next 12 months.
00:01:48
Speaker
ah So that's keeping me out of mischief as a business owner. Well, um I think whether you're working in comms or not, I think everybody's just gone, as always, where's the year gone? um September seemed to be the fastest September on record for me. It really did, didn't it? I don't even think we had one. um So, yeah, so ah like likewise, we're looking forward to 2025, but also just trying to make sure that We end 2024 in the best possible way. So, but let's just get straight into the into the podcast questions that we we do on a regular basis.
Inspiration from a Mentor
00:02:25
Speaker
um And the most important ah question for the Inspire Club, the the one rule, so to speak, is to share a story of who's inspired you at work along the way and why.
00:02:37
Speaker
The person who springs to mind was my boss's boss when I worked in-house at Visa. So it's Dr. Jeremy Reynolds. He, when I went for the job interview, this was in the mid mid-noughties, and i left school and went straight into being a trainee journalist. So I didn't go to university.
00:02:59
Speaker
And when I was approached by Visa to come and interview for this job, They sent me a job description. They'd found me on monster.co.uk because that's how people were recruiting back in 2006, I think.
00:03:15
Speaker
And I saw on the job description that you needed to have a degree. And they'd called me for interview. And I thought, well, you know, I don't have one. And I remember sitting in jeremy's Jeremy's office, having my job interview and holding a portfolio of cuttings and press clippings and being really quite nervous and meeting him and thinking he was just the most inspirational person because i felt the need to be really honest up front. And I said, just to make you aware, I don't have a degree.
00:03:49
Speaker
And he said, I don't care about that. He said, you're here because of what you've done already, the potential that we see in you. thank you this conversation is to find out more about you.
00:04:00
Speaker
and ah don't care that you don't have a degree. And he went on to be my mentor. He's still a really close friend. He came to see me here in West London only a couple of months ago.
00:04:11
Speaker
And he's he just really set the tone for me ah being part of a team that was really nurturing. And he the fact that he was my boss's boss as well. He always looked out for me, always looked after me and always made sure I had good opportunities.
00:04:26
Speaker
And I never felt I can't come to you and ask you to be my mentor because you're my boss's boss. yeah and that relationship and that friendship has been so important to me throughout my career he's he's sage counsel and sage advice and it started with feeling so accepted in that interview conversation our very first conversation together what ah what a fantastic story and and thanks thanks to Jeremy um for being such ah a good guy um um I wonder how often that how How often that would ever happen then or now?
00:04:59
Speaker
It's
Stepping into Opportunities
00:05:00
Speaker
hard to say, isn't it? and yet How many people don't go for a job because they see that one line item on a job description and they count themselves out? If I hadn't have done that job, there are so many you know sliding door moments in in one's life, but there are so many things that happen to me because of the relationships there and because of the friendships there and the you know the things that i learn in that job.
00:05:23
Speaker
So I'm glad i stepped into that interview room and I'm very glad that i met him. um For those that don't know, i actually also started out in comms and press clippings are from newspapers and magazines that are printed, which again are very rare now. And you actually cut them out with scissors and stuck them with something called print stick onto a bit of paper. um but That's how technologically advanced we were in the early 2000s. We really were. I started my career as a journalist in 1999, so my cuttings were my stories and and my campaigns, which, yeah, they think they probably were stuck with Pritzdig. I think you're exactly right. Yeah, no, well, my my dad worked in it, and some of the jobs I used to get 20p an hour ah for pri doing press clippings for for that for that team. So, yeah. Wow.
00:06:16
Speaker
so anyway That just, that took me, but took me back quite a long way. um I'm sure we'll get onto to this at another stage, but I just want to stay with you and you and Jeremy. um What have you taken from that relationship and and um and his leadership skills, I guess, from just such an open mind about people's capabilities beyond what it says on a bit of paper and and how he, how he,
00:06:41
Speaker
clearly even now, mean, what, 20 years on almost, the acceptance you're put you're communicating and that and how that felt to you at that moment in time? I think the impact that it had on me was feeling like anything was possible because it felt like, you know, I don't have any social mobility, don't didn't have any kind of, you know, no one to kind of open doors or leave ladders down or anything like that.
00:07:05
Speaker
And I think the working relationship that I've had with him has always been, he's wicked smart, you know, super smart guy and and highly educated. and i And I, you know, working class girl from Essex, I felt like,
00:07:19
Speaker
that acceptance enabled me to believe that I could do that job and I could do it in my own way. And there wasn't a predetermined view of how it needed to be.
00:07:30
Speaker
and I think throughout my time at at Visa and the team I worked with there were wonderful. They were absolutely fantastic. And they were so encouraging and so nurturing. And it really helped me feel what it's like to be led like that and to be managed like that. So it's something that I try and and instill now in my own business ah how I work with my team and give them autonomy and tell them that, you I believe in them. It's really important.
00:07:56
Speaker
And I know you've worked incredibly hard and they're sliding door moments and it's hard to say one way or the other, but do you think that meeting with him and, and I love it's like a superpower being made to feel like anything's possible has led you down the path that you've been on where you've started your own business and you're helping other people.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Because I think it made me all of the, perceived barriers to entry. you know I could have could have counted myself of out of that job, even though they'd approached me.
00:08:27
Speaker
i think you know when I applied to do a postgraduate diploma with the Institute of Internal Comms in 2008, you have to be a postgraduate. I didn't have a degree, yeah but I thought, well, I didn't have a degree to go to visa.
00:08:39
Speaker
And I approached the IOIC and said, I would like to do this qualification. And they said, well, you don't have a degree. And I said, I know. But at that point I had five years of internal comms experience and four years before that as a journalist. And I believe that I could do it.
00:08:54
Speaker
yeah So I ended up having to sort of interview for it and having a ah ah qualifying conversation which then they said, yes, go ahead, you can do this qualification. And that meant so much to me because I thought just because no one's done this before doesn't mean to say that I can't be the first And I don't know if I was the first actually that to to be truthful, but it was clearly a situation they hadn't encountered before because there wasn't an immediate answer. They to go away and come up with um a way for me to possibly interview and be considered for that course. And that course was absolutely brilliant.
00:09:29
Speaker
And thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed it. But having never studied a university level, I then had to I asked to be trained how to write academically because I'd never done that before. Being trained as a journalist is very different to writing in that style with referencing, et cetera. So,
00:09:46
Speaker
I think the the lessons that I've learned and the self-belief that I have is, you know, if you don't ask, you don't get. And if you don't try, will never know. So i think because of my belief in myself that I'm just going to give it a go.
00:10:02
Speaker
yeah What's the worst that can happen? And if you're willing to take a risk on yourself, then you find that other people respect that. Yeah. And they're willing to take a risk on you too. Yeah, fantastic. I think we can end this podcast now. It's just thoroughly inspiring hearing hearing all that.
00:10:18
Speaker
I've got a tattoo that says, don't die wondering. Incredibly cheesy, but that's like one one of my um one of my you know principal philosophies in life, just give it a go. So um wholeheartedly agree with everything you're putting out there.
00:10:34
Speaker
I can't believe I just admitted that tattoo. Yeah. Going to the negative side, and I always think this leads to positives, which is why we ask in every every every episode, um what's been a negative experience um that's inspired you in a good way?
Burnout and Mental Health
00:10:50
Speaker
When I was working in-house in the railway, I was brought in as a head of communications to set up the function and to oversee internal and external communication. And that was a very high-pressured job.
00:11:03
Speaker
it was very I was very good at that job because i I loved it. I put my heart and soul into it. But the negativity came because I was a team of one to start with, and i didn't feel able to take any annual leave at all.
00:11:18
Speaker
yep And it got to a point where I'd been there for a year and hadn't taken any annual leave at all. And i got to the point where i ended up leaving because I ended up burning burning out in that role. It was not sustainable.
00:11:33
Speaker
And I think we talk a lot nowadays about mental health and wellbeing. And the time when that was, was when the McLeod report was happening and and it was being, employee engagement was being defined and it was talking about looking after employees' wellbeing.
00:11:46
Speaker
And I remember Googling wellbeing. I thought, I don't know what that is. It is unthinkable today that we think about organisations and how they inspire people and how we set our people up to thrive.
00:11:56
Speaker
And we don't talk about wellbeing or focus on wellbeing. So that absolutely resolutely for me is ah ah situation that I never want to happen again, that I never want to experience that again. I never want my team to feel unable to take a break, to feel unable to take annual leave.
00:12:18
Speaker
And it had such a detrimental impact on every part of my life, that feeling of I need to be always on and everything's in my head and I and i can't delegate this to anybody.
00:12:30
Speaker
So I don't work like that anymore because that's not healthy or helpful, not not least for yourself. Yeah. No, ah absolutely. And like you say, it's I remember having to Google wellbeing.
00:12:45
Speaker
yeah what What is this that everybody's talking about? ah You made me think, Is there more burnout now or are we just able to talk about it more? That's interesting. You know, because we wouldn't you wouldn't admit it because it'd be you're admitting failure that you can't hack the working world in the world that we're referencing now, you know, 15 years ago.
00:13:06
Speaker
you would just you just wouldn't admit that because you'd feel like you weren't employable. But now you can. um ah we've we've seen We're ripping that masquerade away. I'm just wondering if you think there's more burnout or we can just talk about them more openly.
00:13:22
Speaker
I think both. I think there is more burnout, but that might be because we are talking about it more openly. So there's more awareness. So it's hard to hard to quantify and qualify that. yeah Reflecting on my own experience, i I really was concerned about it of perception.
00:13:38
Speaker
And I think, and I hear that a lot now in in mentoring conversations where People don't really look at you as closely as you may think. So I was really concerned of how would it look on my CV to go from a head of comms to a senior internal comms manager? Yeah.
00:13:56
Speaker
And we don't have consistency in the wonderful world of internal comms anyway, which doesn't help. um But no one has ever asked me about it. No one has ever given two hoots. No. No. And i think when when I made the decision and I took ah a downward step to really preserve my mental health and wellbeing and give myself the capacity and the headspace to heal actually, whether I realized it or not at the time, i certainly didn't talk about it.
00:14:23
Speaker
think I did realize it, but i didn't talk about it. It wasn't a thing we spoke about. Whereas if I'd like to think that now, however many years on, 15 years on, that I would feel more confident in saying,
00:14:35
Speaker
That wasn't great for me. And I had to leave. And this is why if anyone ever asks, I'm very happy to talk about it. But at the time, don't even think that it was language that we had.
00:14:45
Speaker
oh i don't think was. I don't think I would have said burnout either. I think I was, I remember saying I'm frazzled. I'm exhausted because I wasn't taking any annual leave. I was working all the hours and being on call constantly as a, you know, head of head of external. So,
00:15:02
Speaker
that's not sustainable at all. And I'm very aware of that now. And I know, I now know as a leader, I know what to look for now. I'm much more aware. And that's why we asked the question, because it's great that it has inspired you and in a good way and protecting people you work with and also the people you're mentoring them is making them realize that it's normal and okay to feel and experience different things. Um, and to this speak up about them as well.
00:15:27
Speaker
Um, we, we, ah we we We used to do conferences and then the pandemic obviously stopped them because you can't do a conference from your bedroom. Well, although we did try online, but, um and coming back out of the pandemic, we went back into that and did one.
00:15:44
Speaker
And we just said to each other, do we still want to do these? And the the feedback was it was was actually just so draining um for the team because you put so much effort into putting on such an event for the audience and everybody else. So we actually, met we made the conscious decision to get out of that game um to protect the well-being of our people.
00:16:06
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So, you know, and that's something that I've learned along the way, like you've felt from a negative experience, okay, well, why don't we just see what's best for people? And it's something we, while seeing great conferences going on on LinkedIn all the time, you're going, oh, yeah, you're good to go do that again. But just got- But what are great questions to ask, to ask what's best for people? I think that's really healthy to be cognizant of that above profit, frankly, in terms of like, what is it that's the right thing by our people to enable them to thrive in our workplace.
00:16:38
Speaker
And if it is to
Celebrating ISEE's 10 Years with Events
00:16:40
Speaker
refocus or move away from doing something that isn't going to serve you and isn't going to serve them to set them up for success, then I think, know, hats off to you. That's the right the right mindset to have.
00:16:51
Speaker
Yeah, thanks. It scary, but, you know, if you've got that principle in place, then you just follow it and and and it has worked out well. So those people scared about making ah tough decision for the right reasons,
00:17:02
Speaker
do it. yeah um What's the best experience you've ever had at work? 2023, ironically, I hosted an event which was called All Things I See Live.
00:17:18
Speaker
So for years, I'd wanted to find a way to bring people together, but I didn't want to do a traditional conference because that's not really who I am.
00:17:29
Speaker
And from having conversations with clients and comms friends, There was a bit of frustration in going to things that didn't feel like they were relevant enough. And relevancy is such a massively important thing for for my work as an internal communicator and helping my clients to think about relevancy.
00:17:47
Speaker
So ah decided to create All Things I See Live to mark 10 years of running the business. So it took place in May 2023. And we had 85 in-house internal communicators in a room together.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I did a mastermind format. which as an entrepreneur, I'm part of mastermind groups. And I and i love those sorts of conversations. So if anyone listening hasn't had a mastermind before, you have the way I run them is I have ah five people on a table, and you have an hour, and every person gets 10 minutes in the hot seat.
00:18:21
Speaker
And then you have 10 minutes at the end. So if you someone's got a really gritty problem that you haven't been able to solve and you want to go back to it, or if you've got any reflectors in the group, that extra 10 minutes are really helpful to go back and revisit something.
00:18:35
Speaker
And what that means is you leave with solutions to your problems. You feel really heard and you get to benefit from the collective wisdom of the room. So i did a blend of masterclasses and masterminds throughout that day.
00:18:50
Speaker
And we now run them quarterly. We now do 25 people at a time. and We run them four times a year. But seeing that room in 2023 was incredible. I'd managed to keep under wraps the fact that I was about to write a book and i exclusively revealed it there.
00:19:05
Speaker
And ah just remember the feeling of, I felt really proud of this community. and it was so lovely to see, you'll know this, when you when you share content, you share stories. you know I've been blogging since 2009. So there's 1,800 blog posts and there's six seasons of my Candid Comms podcast out there And people have developed a working relationship with me that I don't necessarily know about.
00:19:31
Speaker
And what happened on that day, all day, was people were coming to me as we were reflecting on 10 years of the business and saying thank you and telling me their career stories and telling me their successes where something I'd said or something I'd written had encouraged them and inspired them and helped them get a job or help them feel more confident.
00:19:52
Speaker
And it was, it felt like this is your life for anyone who remembers that. I just felt really proud of this incredible community of in-house internal communicators who were having a great day. And it was part of a celebration. it wasn't about me. It was about the the wonderful world of internal comms and all these hidden heroes inside organizations and all the great things that they do. So that was such a career high for me that day.
00:20:20
Speaker
I remember everything about that day. It was a really special day that was exhausting to try and plan. Quite emotional, I imagine, as well, with people coming up and saying thank you.
00:20:30
Speaker
It was really emotional. I was given a lot of cards and a lot of gifts that i wasn't expecting at ah all. And that was really quite lovely of people, if they weren't able to tell me in person had written down.
00:20:42
Speaker
yeah And so i had two cards in particular where people said, like, this is what I want to say to you. was like, oh, I don't know what's going to be in here. But it was lovely and it was great.
00:20:52
Speaker
And well, congratulations on the 10 years last year as well, because that's a huge milestone. So we're well done. And I think I think it's a nice reminder for the world that we live in now with social media um that do things do things for the right reasons, which you've done. you've want You've put stuff out into the world to help people, help your profession and and your peers to help people.
00:21:16
Speaker
um not necessarily likes and shares, and um which is a nice way of knowing that people are liking and sharing it. But ah we've we've I've had a similar experience, nothing nothing like like yourself there. But you're putting it out into the world to help people, but you don't know if it's helping because no sometimes a post will get nothing when and you think, oh, it's not.
00:21:39
Speaker
But it it has reached people. People have read it or it's helped them in some way, but you just don't know. But you're not doing it for that reason. You're doing it to help. So I'm really happy you had that moment where this is your life, Rachel Miller.
00:21:52
Speaker
I wish I had the theme tune button like a radio DJ now. um But no, congratulations on that. that's That sounds fantastic. and i'm glad I'm glad you had that. I'll do the the masterminds every quarter as well off the back of it.
00:22:06
Speaker
um ah For those that listen regularly, my favorite question, so you all know what's about and about to arrive, what's the best advice you were ever given? Um, and who was it from?
Career Advice from Family
00:22:19
Speaker
The best advice I've ever been given. In fact, he said it to me. I spoke to him just about an hour ago before we spoke was trust your gut. And that's from my brother. but So my brother is, and for any older siblings who are listening, you'll understand this. He, i am one year, five months and a day older ah than my brother. And those, those days and months all count.
00:22:40
Speaker
Um, he's a very, he's a very wise, he's a very wise chap, for my brother. um Our professional worlds couldn't be more different. He is trained. He trained to be a vicar and he is now the director of studies at Blackburn diocese. So he teaches vicars essentially. oh wow The commonality is we both help people to communicate. He he teaches vicars how to preach. That's his specialism. And he's written wow brilliant book on it.
00:23:08
Speaker
And we are very, very close. um And he says to me all the time, trust your Like we've we've kind of brought each other up and and we, and I say to him constantly, and it's when you don't have someone ah above to refer to, if you don't, you don't have someone to ah check and balance. So we've always been to a peer level with each other and just affirming each other's behavior, which is just your gut, like your gut, not what anyone else would say, but your gut.
00:23:37
Speaker
So yeah, my brother, my brother, he his name is Matthew and I call him Fred. Great name. i Indeed. ah So yeah, reverend Reverend Matt Allen is a very, very wise man. I will clip this and send it to him. He won't believe I've said that as his older sister, his only sister.
00:23:55
Speaker
um But yeah, that advice, trust your gut. And I think it's very easy to surround ourselves with noise and everyone's got a view and everyone's got an opinion. And I think particularly for me as ah as an entrepreneur, as a business owner,
00:24:10
Speaker
as a mummy, frankly, you know, in every area of life, it's not just about work. Trust in your gut and trust in your instinct is so important for me. And I have to make sure that I'm tuning in.
00:24:25
Speaker
Quick follow-up on that then, because I love the advice. Thank you. Thank you, Matthew, ah but for that. Do you, is it just trust your gut and go with it? Or do you then trust you, listen to your gut and then go and do sense check and do some ah but recon or look up different evidence to back up what you're, what you're feeling?
00:24:48
Speaker
Or is it just, this is what I feel. i'm going to go with it. We recently, so this year, unfortunately my, our dad has dementia. So we've had to, he's in a residential care home and my brother and I, thank you. My brother and I spend quite a long time in the car,
00:25:03
Speaker
going to see my dad and and we spend hours in the car together, it feels like, which actually is one good outcome of this very difficult situation. yeah And when we're having these sorts of discussions, I will test business ideas with him. i We share all sorts.
00:25:18
Speaker
It's trust your gut. And then we would challenge each other to say, help help me understand this. Like what's led you to that? What led you to that conclusion? So we will test and iterate between us and we will work out loud together. We will share I do I do the same with my husband as well we he also runs his own business and we the decisions there but then the rationale and the explaining it to someone else is the bit that sometimes you need help with because the instinct might be really strong and then when you have to think about how you communicate it to everyone else luckily I'm a comms professional so that helps um so it's but but have faith have faith in the core of what
00:26:00
Speaker
you're deciding because you decided it for for a good reason and then everything else follows. And I think as well, when you say trust your gut, sometimes people think the decision is easy.
00:26:12
Speaker
It still could be a very hard decision to make, but it's what you feel is the correct path. So, yeah um, so it's not necessarily an easy decision after listening to your instincts and and your gut as well. So, but great, great advice. Um,
00:26:26
Speaker
I think that'll stand many people in great stead by doing that. um what We've talked about it a fair bit, actually, on this podcast. So interested to know what you might do or not do to help beat stress.
Creative Stress Management
00:26:41
Speaker
Really bad at that. and We so recently discovered that um I have ADHD, which explains why I can never calm my mind and do meditation and do colouring and all of those sorts of things.
00:26:54
Speaker
So my go-to to beat stress is Lego. And you can see me as we're recording and you can see I've got Lego all around me. I have to do productive calm.
00:27:05
Speaker
I can't just sit probably to my detriment. But Lego i find really relaxing because I like seeing it come to life. I like the creativity of it. I like the mindfulness of it.
00:27:20
Speaker
And the adult range is incredible. So all of the bunches of flowers, this plant behind me is Lego. Wow. Okay. Didn't not, did not know that. Yeah. I I'm, I'm not great at keeping plants alive. That's a massive, massive understatement, but I can keep these ones alive. So this is all good.
00:27:36
Speaker
yeah So it's Lego for me. And it's a, I've even got on my desk when I rebranded got a new logo back in 2018, my designer, I can, I'm showing you the camera gave me an all things I see logo out of Lego. So I,
00:27:50
Speaker
I fidget with that a lot. and It's very simple, very straightforward. When I grew up, we couldn't afford Legos. So it's not something that I've always done. i started, my husband bought me the Big Ben kit you can see behind me or for my 36th or 37th birthday.
00:28:05
Speaker
So um it's not it's not been that many years, she says, I'm 44. But it's it's my go-to now. Wow.
00:28:15
Speaker
I mean, there's so much one I want ask, but i don't want to don' want to pry too far. um my ah My wife speaks somebody, like lot of people do now, which is a good thing, and and they're both pretty convinced that she has ADHD, but it takes years to get properly diagnosed on the NHS.
00:28:33
Speaker
So we're going to go private, but then I saw this panorama show on it with you know bad actors, so I'm freaked out to to go and outlay the money just to be given a diagnosis and potentially medicine behind that without not really having confidence in who's done that.
00:28:48
Speaker
And she's... She's, ah she's she's ah what's the word I'm looking for? Convinced I've got it too. That's interesting. So how you described an active mind and using Lego and like car doesn't shut down, doesn't turn off. It's like, well, yeah, okay, I can relate to that. Whether I've got it or not, I can relate to that ah active mind. so I'm going to follow up with you. alllyn I'll send you ah the the the people that we, so like lots of people, i only discovered because my children have gone through assessment. Right, okay.
00:29:19
Speaker
And so we we had to go down the private route as well because it's a five year waiting list and my daughter would be doing her GCSEs. So it's just too late. yeah um So i will I will follow up with you and share the good people.
00:29:33
Speaker
Because i it seems like that burnout ended up with ah eight adult ADHD because obviously it just didn't happen as when we were children. So we're a lot lot of people now are defining it out now because it just wasn't even discussed back then. So much makes sense now. If I look at the reason why I'm a good consultant is because I like it when things are ah they need help.
00:29:53
Speaker
Like I can see how to fix things and then I get stuck in and fix things and then I move on to the next thing. Whereas when I was in house, I spent 10 years working in house in corporate comms roles and it was fantastic. And I learned so much, yeah but would get to a point after about 18 months when it was cyclical, when it was like, here's the employee survey again, and here's the end of year. And I'd be like, Oh, I get bored very easily.
00:30:16
Speaker
yeah and And now I realize that actually that's why consultancy works beautifully for me because that's that variety now I understand and only in the last two years I understand now how my brain works yeah I can look back at my career and it makes sense now wow which is finding it's fascinating to kind of look back and just to be kind to yourself you know if you are if you're suddenly realizing a lot of things now make sense um I'm sitting here with a fidget as we're talking. I'm very aware now of how I need to be. So now I will talk on stage holding a fidget. was on stage last week at the Comms Hero conference.
00:30:54
Speaker
um i think it was my fourth or fifth time this year speaking on stage holding a fidget. but I've got one like this that i normally have on my finger when I'm on stage. Like a plastic snake thing that I ah fiddle with because to help me concentrate.
00:31:09
Speaker
Because if I don't, then i want to be present and I want to be communicating in the best possible way. And I want to be focused rather than doing what doing now and going off on tangents.
00:31:21
Speaker
I find it so interesting. And you hear from so many people that they do say everything now makes sense. Yeah. Which, which obviously makes sense if you were diagnosed with anything.
00:31:33
Speaker
um And like we were talking earlier, and I've just done it banging the table, I bang the table. So i'm go anyway, this is this is a podcast about you and not myself. So um I might invest in a fidget spinner in the meantime whilst I go and try and find out what might be going on.
00:31:48
Speaker
um I don't think you ah don't think there's an answer to this, but I'm going to ask if you could swap jobs with anyone for a day, um would you and what would you do?
Career Satisfaction and Temptations
00:32:00
Speaker
wouldn't. Oh, nice. ah No, I wouldn't. I came to a crossroads about seven or eight years ago where I saw what I've always said would but be on paper, my dream job.
00:32:11
Speaker
And it was director of internal comms at Lego. And when I saw it, I i looked at what I was doing and I thought, well, there it is. There's a job I always said could lure me back in-house.
00:32:23
Speaker
And when I really analysed what I was doing, I realized that what I've created, I love so much that actually even Lego couldn't turn my head. So I decided to put it on my website.
00:32:34
Speaker
And as serendipity would have it, someone in my network saw it, applied for it, got the job. And they are now one of my clients. Hey. Which is just lovely. So that kindness, you know, it comes it comes back. If you give kindness out, it it comes back. So I thought...
00:32:51
Speaker
That's not going to be for me. I'm not going to put my hat in the ring, but I'm going to share it in case someone in my network sees it. um And I did, which was wonderful. Fantastic. ah Well, I love that answer.
00:33:03
Speaker
um Another one that I find a a really good question to wal ask is, what do you think is the most important quality in a leader? Listening.
00:33:15
Speaker
Okay. So removing your own ego and listening. And that's, we talk about that so much in internal comms, particularly and inside organizations and helping leaders to be really tuned in to where people are at. So it's not listening with, I had a client who who had a face-to-face sessions with their leaders, um with their CEO, and it was called FaceTime.
00:33:42
Speaker
And I realized that he'd kind of got it the wrong way around. He thought that FaceTime was about people were seeing in his face And it really wasn't. It was about him seeing his employees' faces.
00:33:55
Speaker
And that was such an an important distinction and such an important shift and switch in his mindset because you need to be seen to be listening, but you need to be seen to be absorbing what you're hearing, the sentiment, how are people feeling, what motivates them, what's inspiring them.
00:34:12
Speaker
so listening, I think, is the most underrated quality, but without being ah good at listening. You can't be a great communicator and you can't be a great leader if you're not a great communicator. so listening for me.
00:34:28
Speaker
um Putting you on the spot a little bit so you can dodge it if you want to, but what what would be a couple of great ways of displaying active listening then? So if you if you want to improve your listening and and how can you display that to people that you are listening to with with ah with you know honesty and intent?
00:34:48
Speaker
I think there's a really good book that's come out recently called Leading the Listening Organization by Dr. Kevin Ruck, Howard Crice, and Mike Poundsford, who's published by Routledge, which I i recommend.
00:34:59
Speaker
I've actually got it stuck on my on my wall. I'm a visual thinker. I've got all sorts of things stuck up here. yeah and And they've got listening capabilities in in the book. So it's called CORE, which is compassion, openness, responsiveness, or responding, and empathy.
00:35:17
Speaker
Right. And they are the qualities of listening. So for leaders, if you can demonstrate your compassion, your openness, your responsiveness and your empathy, yeah then you are on the right track.
00:35:29
Speaker
That is the right mindset to have when you are working inside an organization and trying to listen and listen to understand, not listening to respond. Listening to understand. What a great way to put it. What a great way to put it.
00:35:41
Speaker
um Okay, so we'll go on to some of the the quick, fun of more fun, hopefully, questions. um Early Bird or Night Owl? Night Owl.
00:35:53
Speaker
um What's your favourite album? um And what song do you choose to fire you up to get you motivated if you if you need it at any point in time?
00:36:06
Speaker
So when I'm asked to speak conferences, if I'm asked if I want any walk-on music, I always choose Happy by Pharrell Williams all right because I can't help but you know wiggle to it, dance to it. But also it's royalty free. So when he released it,
00:36:20
Speaker
Apparently, he he made it royalty free to just share the love, which ah wow which is great for conference organizers who play into licensed music. In terms albums, I've trained my brain. I use an AI-powered playlist.
00:36:35
Speaker
So when I was writing my book last year, i created ADHD playlist. So it's sounds and noises. It's not lyrics that distract me.
00:36:46
Speaker
And I've trained myself to hyper-focus when I put that playlist on. wow I now know if I need to do deep work, I put that on and I'm, is you know, you know, who wants to be a millionaire when the lights go down and it goes, just lo it's like that. My brain kind of just goes, I focus in. So that's, it's a very worky answer, but, but that's my favorite because I can, I feel my brain shutting some of those tabs and focusing, which is what I need.
00:37:16
Speaker
im I'm finding this so and interesting and insightful on so many different levels. um Favourite film? And that I always say it doesn't have to be the best movie ever made, but like the film you can just put in the DVD player back in the day or but put on ah iTunes now, Apple or apple TV, whatever it is. Favourite film?
00:37:35
Speaker
There's two for me. There's Breakfast at Tiffany's, classic, love Audrey Hepburn. um And The Devil Wears Prada. I don't know how many times I've seen that. And in fact, a mutual friend of ours, Jenny, um Jenny Field and I and Dana Leeson, who I set the the IC crowd up with, we did 10 years of the crowd together.
00:37:52
Speaker
We're going to see the stage show of Devil Wears Prada ah in late 2024. So I can't wait to see it on stage. Is that in the West End or? Yeah, i see I think it's the at the Savoy. I think it's the theatre next to the Savoy. It's in November. november my Start November, it's launching. So we booked that at the start of 2024. We booked it months ago. So I can't wait. you know Guilty pleasure. i I love The Devil Wears Prada. I think it's a fantastic film. but Such a good film. I love it. And I introduced my children to it recently as well.
00:38:25
Speaker
um And having to keep explaining things as we went. But When you try and explain why you love something so much to someone and you've seen it that many times, it it loses. loses something. But I still thoroughly enjoy it.
00:38:37
Speaker
It's just got such a great cast, hasn't it? like And they all they all knock it out of the park, like Tucci, Meryl Streep, Emily Blunt. all of All of them are just so brilliant together. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
00:38:49
Speaker
So like I said, don't mind people knowing that I'm a big Devil Wears Prada fan. I think actually my wife Ivy was a bit shocked when I suggested when we first started going out. might have been at least a year in actually. I'm going, fancy watching the Devil Wears Prada. I love it. Good on you. Yeah. So we got married afterwards, so it couldn't have been too bad.
00:39:08
Speaker
So um best place in the world you've
Favorite Travel Destination
00:39:12
Speaker
visited? And if you could be anywhere in the world right now, where would it be? best place I visited was Cambodia I spent a year traveling and i just loved Cambodia I thought it was the most incredible country that is unlike anywhere else yeah and so anyone who's who's been traveling will know that you you you're going across from country to country constantly and I I based myself in Thailand for a bit and then I kept finding myself back in Cambodia I'd go to Vietnam Thailand back to Cambodia and just
00:39:45
Speaker
everything about such a recent history there that is still very prevalent and it's 20 years ago i went in 2004 um and it was just an incredible place I think the second one would probably be my mother-in-law's house in France so my mother-in-law has a house in the south of France where my husband and I take our three children every year and which is quality time and downing tools as much as you can as two two business owners yeah um and quality time with our babies.
00:40:17
Speaker
Well, I love both of those. um Family in France and Cambodia, I'm going back there in a month with with Ivy, the first time in 21 years. Are you?
00:40:30
Speaker
Amazing. That was like straight out of college and backpack. We're doing the backpack thing actually. We've decided we're going to try and do the, there's a program in England for those not in England called Race Around the World and they do it on a budget so we're seeing if we can we're doing a bit of cheating there there's there are pi there are stops along the way we might have already booked hotels that might be relatively nice but in between bits we're going to try and try and do the backpacker thing but um like you said it's just you know opening your mind I'm young and and stupid um and and but a big like student of history that's what I did university but so I was aware of the history of Cambodia but
00:41:12
Speaker
sleeping on a, on a coach going through the countryside. I kept seeing the signs that looked like ah a child standing on a snake. And I was going, what are these regular signs? And then their houses, but beyond the signs, know, why, why are they?
00:41:28
Speaker
And only after about two hours did it dawn on me, there were landmine signs. And then it, then it dawned on me that their houses behind these landmine signs. And it was just, you know, like you say, very, very humbling and, but an incredible country, but the friendliest people I've ever, I've ever met and now.
00:41:42
Speaker
I'm very grateful to have ah cambodian in my in my Cambodians in my family as well on the American side of things. So we yeah, highly highly recommend Cambodia along alongside you there. um And if you were going tune back in and listen to the podcast, there's somebody else on it. Who would you recommend?
00:42:01
Speaker
dame Steve Shirley. So I find her absolutely inspirational, particularly as a woman in business who, She refers to herself as Steve because she found being in business in the 60s and 70s opening the right doors but by changing her name, frankly. um She's a founder of Autistica, so she helps organisations understand about autism particularly. And she's an incredibly inspirational woman.
00:42:31
Speaker
And as as mummy too to neurodivergent children who both have ADHD and autism, I think what she has done to communicate and raise awareness and so to help people understand the lived reality for people with autism is just outstanding. So I think she'd be, I think she'd be a hoot and I think it'd be a thoroughly enjoyable conversation.
00:42:55
Speaker
Fantastic. I will, I will see if I can make that happen. So much. I really want to ask Dame Steve Shirley. um So thank you so much, Rachel. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we sign off?
00:43:09
Speaker
Thank you for inviting me to join you. It's been been an absolute pleasure. Yeah, no, i've I've really enjoyed it. I hope you've enjoyed it at home, at work or on the train, wherever you might be listening to this podcast. um We'll be back again with ah with another episode soon. But thanks again, Rachel. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for all the work that you put out into the world and and how you help people and inspire people with the content that you do. So ah thanks to everybody. We'll be back again soon.