Transcript
Speaker: This is the Greatness Router, where we connect purpose to process one conversation at a time.
Speaker: Great day, beautiful people. It's me, Zena C, and I'm here for another beautiful episode of The Greatness Router. And today is a first, and I'm super excited.
Speaker: um Today, we have a a husband and wife. We have a couple. We have a partnership. We have a a branded together in it for life type of situation. And I'm so excited. And they're both doctors. And I'm so excited to bring this um this match to you guys and These gems to everyone so that you can really hear the nitty gritty and the the love that goes behind even investing in your greatness. So before I give them a chance to speak, I'm going to hop into these bios that I have today's guests. are Dr. Kevin Wilson and Dr. Shanika LaVie Wilson, a husband and wife team whose individual careers have been dedicated to developing people, strengthening institutions, and creating meaningful opportunities through education and leadership.
Speaker: Dr. Kevin Wilson is an educator, higher education leader, and sport management scholar currently serving as assistant professor of sports management and coordinator of e-sports administration at Benedict College.
Speaker: With leadership experience spanning HBCUs and NCAA divisions, I'm sorry, Division I institutions, his work focuses on sport leadership, innovation, student development and expanding opportunities within athletics and esports. His research explores leadership, identity and increasing representation within sport administration, while his professional journey reflects a commitment to building programs, forging partnerships and prep preparing the next generation of leaders.
Speaker: Joining him is Dr. Shanika LaVee Wilson. a social work educator, scholar practitioner, and associate chair and associate professor in the Department of Social Work at North Carolina Central University.
Speaker: With extensive experience in both clinical practice and higher education, her work centers on student success, curriculum innovation, faculty development, and strengthening responsive approaches to social work education. Her passion for interdisciplinary learning and community engagement continues to shape the students and and in and institutions she serves. Together,
Speaker: The Wilsons represent a shared commitment to education, leadership, service, and family. As scholar practitioners, they've each built distinguished careers while raising three beautiful sons and continuing to invest in the growth of students, communities, and one another.
Speaker: I'm excited, like super excited y'all, to welcome them both to the table today as we explore their individual journeys, their shared experiences, and what it looks like to build purpose, partnership, and legacy together.
Speaker: Please, please, please, please, please join me in welcoming Dr. Kevin Wilson and Dr. Shanika LeVee Wilson. Oh my goodness. Hello, you beautiful couple. Thank you. We're good. We're good. Thanks for having us. Thank you for the answer introduction. Great introduction. Yes. Look, it was nothing but the truth, okay? it was It was absolutely nothing but the truth. And I'm so grateful that y'all have found the time and energy and place. Look, y'all are parents.
Speaker: Y'all are professionals and and parents. And I'm so grateful that y'all were able to carve out the space to to enlighten me and and to enlighten our listeners. I like to say our because it's not just my following and it's not just yours. Y'all's, we're we're combining. So super grateful for y'all's attention and presence today. And I'm really excited to learn. Okay. I got my notebook and everything. Like i'm I'm excited. Are y'all doing well today?
Speaker: yeah We are. We are doing well. And thank you so much for having us. You you know, Xena, you are somebody that we you know admired you know for a long time. I think, you know, definitely your impact is is much appreciated in this space, highlighting great professionals that deserve it. And so we appreciate you having us on here. We're humbled and very excited to to to get started. Your dad would definitely be proud. Oh, my. it See, there you go. Look, look, there there you go. Starting off the, I be crying in this episode already, but thank you. I appreciate it. So um that being said, let's hop into these icebreaker questions. Cause you know, you got to break the ice. You know what I'm saying? I'm just having the pleasure meeting your beautiful wife. We go ahead to break the ice for us and for our audience. So.
Speaker: I'm going to ask a blanket question and y'all answer in whatever tandem y'all come back with. there Y'all cool with that? We cool. All right. If you could have a candid, unfiltered conversation with any historical figure, who would it be and why? Who's going first? My wife's the history buff. She's the history buff. I'm let her go first. Okay. Who are we talking to? dr dr wilson I'm going to say Assata Shakur. When I was at University of Connecticut, one of my favorite professors, Dr. Jeffrey Ogbar, kind of introduced me to Assata Shakur. And so my best friend, chelsea watson Dr. Chelsea Watson and I, we were kind of wanting our university to have an African-American studies major. So we read her biography. We went to New York. that they had about just that that Black Power movement time. And so I would just want to know about like how she maintained, how how was life in Cuba? How did she feel not being able to come back? like How did she deal with the trauma of everything that she experienced? I always want to go to Cuba and sit with her and visit her. So I would definitely say Asana Shakur.
Speaker: I love that. And you, once again, a new first. I have never had Sada Shakur, but I am all the way here for it. So yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. um Dr. Wilson.
Speaker: I'm going to mess up his name, but Julian Francis ah Abel. I believe he was the gentleman that designed Duke University's campus. on African American man. And so he was that he would be somebody I would be enthralled with, kind of asking how he overcame his inspiration for the campus because I'm biased. I think Duke is one of the most beautiful campuses I've ever I agree. It's a beautiful campus. Every time you walk on it, and a lot of people have tried to replicate it, but it failed.
Speaker: so oh But yeah, so I would say julie Julian Francis Abel. Okay. Okay. Look, two new firsts. So this is just going be a whole episode I'm here for. Okay. Thank you. love that. I'm going to have to do some digging because I don't even think I recognize that the person who actually curated or actually designed the campus was melanated. I didn't know that. So I'm all the way here for that. I'm to dive into the archives for that. So thank you.
Speaker: So this is a couple of questions. So y'all can ah talk about it amongst yourselves if you need to. All right. So before we get into the work of of the nitty gritty of what we're going to talk about today, i have to know, who is more likely to say, let's just figure it out as we go.
Speaker: And who is the one who's already like, nah, here's the itinerary, here's the backup plan, and here's the color-coded calendar. Like, how do how does y'all split? How do y'all find that balance?
Speaker: I'm to figure it out as you go, guy. Okay. That's the itinerary person. And we're both Virgos, and so it just shows up in different ways. And so I will say that he will put things on the calendar, but I'll be like, hey, we have these things to do. Like, okay, what are we going to do? What are we going to be there? What time are going leave?
Speaker: I'm here for the teamwork. i I love that. First of all, I love this this dynamic as as is, right? But I love that y'all are literally like ping-ponging. Like, okay, so I know my strength.
Speaker: Boop. I got this over here. No, no, no, no. I got you, babe. It's over here. Doop. I got this side. Like y'all are really, you you you have found a degree of balance that I think is, um is, needs to be honored for one. And for two, I don't think people fully recognize that that balance needs to exist. So thank you for being a representation of that. And as we talk, you we can, we can dive in more on how that, that balance has been developed as necessary. But I just want you to know that I recognize and I i can visually see the balance between the two and I'm grateful for it. Um, and I respect that. so thank you.
Speaker: love right. Y'all ready hop in? Y'all feeling warmed up? Absolutely. We feel warmed up. We feel warmed up. Comfortable. Is y'all warmed up? Y'all ready to get these answers to these questions? No questions. Warmed up.
Speaker: Okay. So I like to call this segment the router moments, right? And this is where we discuss the the dots that are being connected, that were connected for you to get to where you are. We're going to talk about the purpose behind your work, ah the pivot points, and your resilience and processes, right?
Speaker: So um if you had to pinpoint and again, y'all, whoever wants to stop, jump in first can go forth. If you had to pinpoint the moment you knew what you're doing right now was your calling, what would it be?
Speaker: um So for me, i had the opportunity to adjunct at my previous in my previous role. And two of my mentors, Dr. Derek Gregg, the former athletic director of Northwestern, and Tim Duncan, who's the current WAD at Memphis, they had always been dedicated to being scholar practitioners. It didn't matter where they were serving in their athletic director roles, they were always in the classroom. If it was not, if they weren't literally having adjunct classes with students, which I think Dr. Gregg kind of saw as a great opportunity to educate people about athletics, um but they they were always trying to help the next generation of administrators. And so, um,
Speaker: For me, I had, so i so i went out so when I had an opportunity to adjunct, I took full advantage. And so I was teaching a facility course at my my previous institution. And it was great. When you're an athletic director, you don't get to really have one-on-one opportunities with your student athletes unless they're in trouble, right? Like that's that's normally how it goes. Like you in trouble, they got an issue with a coach, something going on, they're in your office, right?
Speaker: or you know game goes well, then you're dapping everybody up, right? But you don't really get to interact with them on a one-on-one basis. And being in that classroom gave me that opportunity, and I loved it, right? Like, I love being able to rag on a student athlete after a really good game and say, hey, man, like, I know you got 20 points, but you still fouled out, right? Like, I...
Speaker: It's good to have those interactions or whenever a player walks in and they've been struggling with something, give them praise when they get better and just letting them hear from me so that they they understand that I don't just see you as a number. I see you as a person, an individual, and I acknowledge the things that you do.
Speaker: And so it was just really, it was it was something that you know really had an impact on me. And I was like, if I can do this all the time, that that's that's what i will I'll be able to do.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. Before we hop in, I just have one follow-up question that is, of course, off the rocker. So you were a student athlete too, right? Correct. I was a student athlete at Duke University.
Speaker: Okay. So you you're it's it's almost like full circle to an extent. Where where you're kind of want and I may be rejecting. So feel free to be like, zena that's not the way it went. But is is it more so like now you are able to stand in a gap that you may have recognized when you were actually an athlete coming through the the process yourself? Or am I am I being so? No. So, you know, the funny thing is everybody thinks that because Duke University is a private institution that they don't have a lot of African-Americans there.
Speaker: That'd be wrong. Okay. That's, that's one of the reasons I tell my wife all the time, like the the guy that recruited me, Brad Sherrod, he was black, right? Black coach. We had a black head, we had a white head coach, but I never really talked to him ever. My position coach white, but it made I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, like I had enough people who looked like me on that staff, um,
Speaker: even former players that that that made my decision. right And then our African-American studies, for like the program like from Dr. Mark Anthony Neal on down, like these were critical Black figures that are making impact in the in industry today. And so I saw a ton of Black folks that look like me. like A lot of the books, because my wife reads way more than I do.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. As much as I admit, like she reads way more than I do. Right. But a lot of the books that I still have to this day from the Miseducation to the Negro, of Negro, all these books, I got them when I was at Duke. OK. And so it it it it wasn't on it wasn't it wasn't necessarily a gap as much as that's what I saw. Got you. Dr. Martin Anthony Neal, he did those things to us as student athletes. he like He didn't make us feel bad about being athletes. right Who weren't as successful as they are today. right like we We just, we struggled.
Speaker: But he never made us feel like that in the classroom. He praised us. He knew us outside of just our our jersey numbers. He knew where we were from. And like that that mattered to me. And I always said, you know, and in addition to I give him his credit, Joe Oliva, our athletic director who ended up going to LSU.
Speaker: He walked around the football building. He knew every single athlete. Right. And so I tried to do that as an athletic director. I wanted to make sure that it didn't matter whether it was tennis, golf, whatever sport, I knew who they were. And and ah and and when students like feel like they're not seen, it matters. Like when when when athletic director, because that's a position that you hold. Right.
Speaker: Let will you let them know, hey, I see what you're doing. and I see who you are. And so that's something that stuck with me. So it was more so seeing it, not necessarily a gap that I thought needed to be addressed Okay. I love that. I love the replication process. Like it worked. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Like if this worked over here, I'm going to apply it moving forward. I respect that. And I, I, I honor that. So thank you for, for clarifying that for me. And thank you for the the question to what your pinpoint was. now Dr. Wilson, y'all, I'm going to confuse y'all because I'm just going to say Dr. Wilson because, you know, you gotta give you got give credit where credit is due around these parts. Dr. Wilson, back to you. If you had to pinpoint the moment you knew this was your calling, what would it be?
Speaker: so I was a therapist for a lot of years before I went into teaching. So I went from being like a community mental health therapist working in the community to working for a university, actually North Carolina Central University, And then I went to Wake Forest University and one of the public health professors said, would you teach a class with me? And I was just like,
Speaker: i don't really like public speaking, but sure, I'll try it. And I tried and i was like oh, I like this. And then someone in council education was like, would you be willing to have a student like kind of learn your therapy style and how you do therapy and have an intern? I was like, yes. And then after that, was like, I'm doing so much with all these people that aren't social workers.
Speaker: I really should think about being a professor for social workers and pour into my field. And so I remember coming home and say, I think I'm going to try to pivot and away from doing therapy full time and then start applying for full time professor jobs. And so that's what I did. And I had applied, I was kind of nervous, so I had applied for a therapy job and then a professor job at North Carolina Central. And I interviewed at North Carolina Central and have been there since 2015.
Speaker: wow um That's beautiful. The classroom is a beautiful place. um And I think it gets overlooked several times. just be One, it's not easy. Let's be very clear. I i had a another um another episode that we just recently released. And they were just talking about the the whole concept of those that don't teach or those that can't teach. She was like, that's a terrible concept because teaching is difficult. And it is. So I love that you were willing to sit here and be like, you know I'm doing a great job for y'all over here, but I really need to reinvest in what I have been learning and what I, what, what I actually know, like the back of my hand. So I commend you for even taking that, that pivot, which actually takes us to our next question, but I commend you for recognizing that opportunity. Right. And then actually acting on that opportunity and seeing that it's something that you can actually blossom for and you have blossomed from and, and and really taking the reins on. So kudos to you. And just, I don't know if y'all had a chance to listen to this podcast, but it's going to be a lot of like, oh my gosh, you're so awesome. Oh my goodness.
Speaker: That's just how this is built because I feel as though people need to receive their flowers and their accolades and their love while they're still here so that you can keep, yeah I mean, that multiplies, love multiplies. So if I'm pouring into you the way you've been pouring into everyone else, Hopefully on the back end of that, it's going to be a thousand times even greater because you're like, you know what?
Speaker: I am the biz naive. I am that person, you know? Say what now? little scrappy. little scrappy is my guy. Look, look, you know, you for the culture. Three times. Let's go.
Speaker: Okay, so let's talk about a pivot points because you did ah a brilliant job and in bringing that around. um Was there ever a time when you almost chose a different path? Who's going first? Yeah, I go first. All right.
Speaker: I'm the pivot man that just pivoted into a higher ed faculty side. So when I was the transition out of ah out out of athletics, I had actually you know thought about you know transitioning, like leaning into my customer service side. Oh, right. Like being in development and really interacting with people, being front facing. um i I thought about, you know, making that move. And there was a gentleman that one of one of our donors and one of my previous institutions approached me. ran a software company and he legitimately said, hey, like, you know, I think you'd be a great fit because of my my interaction with him. Right. Like on the owner on a customer service side. But I knew nothing about the software.
Speaker: okay I just didn't. i And it's nothing. i and it's I could have learned, right? But I just i just felt like that was ah I was taking an opportunity away from somebody who only worked their entire life to get to get it.
Speaker: think It wouldn't have been fair to to that individual, right? like it the the The money was amazing. I would have been working online at the house, um but I just wouldn't have been passionate about it. right you know i dealt with that once before and it didn't pan out in terms of law school. And so getting up every day and really loving what I wanted to do was something that I was intentional about at that part of my life. And so, yeah, I said, no, thank you. I interviewed and everything, right? Interviewed. was like, hey, like the guys love you. Like, you know, when you want to do it? And like I was like,
Speaker: I'm good. And and you would think my wife, for right? Like we'll say, hey this is life changing money. She's like, no, if you're not happy doing it, don't do it. Right. Like we're going find the money, the money, the money's going to follow us. And so, so I, I, I said, no, thank you. And so that was the one time I was like, yeah, maybe, um maybe, maybe this athletics thing and maybe teaching is I didn't need to go into sales, grind it out, make some money, but it just went well, it's not what I wanted to do. and And I had too much respect for the owner. Like he was a great dude. So oh I just didn't want to do that.
Speaker: So to be clear, you do recognize that you would have killed it, right? Oh, like like you do you Like, I feel like that's the baseline of, like, you would have gone in there and killed it. But there's a you said a lot, and it's a lot to unpack. um But first of all, me me knowing who I know who's in front of me right now, you would have you would have killed it, and it would have been amazing. But I think it's more honorable at the fact that, one, it's just like, well, this isn't I'm not passionate about this. This is not what I've been spending my life working towards. And even that pivot requires a degree of discernment that um that many don't even recognize. Let's let's start there. But but two, even recognizing like, you know what, I would be taking an opportunity from someone else. Now, would they kill it like you? Maybe.
Speaker: Maybe not. i don't I don't know. I'm i'm not the one to to say that. But recognizing that that wasn't the lane that you needed to be driving in that that's that. Kiss your brain, as my mother would say. Kiss your brain on that one because you you now are are happy.
Speaker: Yeah. And you're you're doing what you want to be doing instead of doing something to make it work. I feel like those are two very different conversations um that people need to consider just across the board. So thank you for unearthing those gems for our listeners and for yourself. Thank you. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right, Dr. Wilson, your turn.
Speaker: So I would say it wasn't really a pivot, but I guess kind of. I'm in the administrative role now as the associate chair. And so, and I was the MSW program director for some time. And I would say my current department chair, Dr. Lorraine Grace, she saw something in me that I didn't necessarily think was my kind of zhish. So I was kind like, I'm good with kind of being the person who's publishing, teaching her classes, trying to get a grant and that's it. But anytime anything rolled up with like a accreditation or anything. I'm like, how can I help? I always want to help my department. And so my old ah department chair, Dr. Belinda Creighton was like, okay, Wilson, you got this. like, yep, here goes in the back. And I always just kind of was in the background, never kind of really trying to get any credit for anything or anything like that. And so the whole time Dr. Graves had been watching all the work that I had been doing. And when she got into her role as chair, she said, Hey, I want you to help me out with the MSA program. And I'm like, sure. And then if we go to a meeting, she's like, Dr. Wilson is the MSA program director. And I was like, oh, oh, okay. It kind of just took me by surprise. And then um she said, you know, we have to have an associate chair. And she's like, so you know who I put down? I said, no, I'm naming other people. She's down you. What are you talking about? I was like, you are an administrator. I say i think I saw myself as like a therapist and a professor.
Speaker: saw getting in the administrative side of things. And then now recently um' in April, opened up a small telehealth private practice. And so going back to practicing too, because I realized how much I missed it. And so we do both. I feel like, feel I feel like balance. So feel like I'm doing what I love to do. Teaching. I love, I'm what I love to do, helping my program, but also going back and doing therapy as well. Okay. Don't you love when your hard work actually pays off? Absolutely.
Speaker: Isn't that, isn't that a beautiful thing when you're actually working and working and working, busting your chops, you know, trying to make a wave, even though the wave isn't directly ah affecting or affecting yourself, you know, i' like you're just trying to make, create degree of change. And then it just current turns around is like, oh no, this is your, this is your lane. I'm going to place you here. It's like, oh, yeah okay. Let's, let's make it work. I love that. Oh my gosh. I love y'all stories. um And I love how intentional they have been. so okay. Thank you for these, these pivot point is still a pivot point because you still had to adjust your your line of thinking. right
Speaker: You know what i mean? Even though you didn't initiate. And I think that that's an important point, too. You didn't initiate that pivot. um But someone else saw the greatness in you and was just like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm going place you in this hot but a pot of water and see what you do. Yes. Yes. And I'm a very ah back, you know, behind the scenes kind of person but facing is a new experience kind of for me to know. I get it because I am a behind the scenes. i know great people. i know it doesn't seem like it, but I would much rather be behind the scenes cheering the rest y'all on than sitting here doing these these interviews in front of this camera. I promise y'all. So I get it. I get it. I get it.
Speaker: All right. So let's talk about resilience and process for you two, right? What keeps you in the game when things aren't going smoothly? what keeps you going? What keeps you fighting?
Speaker: So for me, it the the number one thing is my family. just I love the... the look on their faces when we're able to go out and do the little things that we enjoy doing, it going to the movies, going on a trip.
Speaker: Our kids are constantly asking us, you know, when's payday? When's payday? What are we doing next? What are we doing next? Right. So. No, are you serious? yeah Absolutely. they have it on their iPad calendars. Absolutely.
Speaker: So they know what to act like we request ask for. No question. and So um so my my family would be the biggest motivator from that i on ah on a tough day. right like i and i I tell all my students, like you need to understand your why. On my first day class, especially in athletics, I say, in athletics, I need you to understand your why. Because your hours going to be long. Days are going to be thankless.
Speaker: um And on know on your worst day, you got to remember your why. yeah And so so for me It's absolutely my family. They they keep me motivated. they They're my biggest cheerleaders. It's the shoulder I cry on, the shoulder I lean on. She's the one I consult whenever I'm dealing with something. I'm like, this don't make no sense.
Speaker: um like it's like it's It's definitely my family. No question. Plenty of rubs on the back. or no But see, this my wife from Connecticut, so she don't do a lot of you know, old baby. What's wrong with you? Hey, let's get through this. You're going to be just fine. She built tough, you know what I mean?
Speaker: So she tell me I can't, i can't she gave me like a period to soak. And after that, you got to get it up. like It's balance. No question. I understand. So for me, I would definitely say my family.
Speaker: I love that. Okay. Thank you. Received. What about you, Dr. Wilson? I would say I have two. I would definitely say my family, because I remember when I was talking to my friend, Dr. K. Monet, when we were at Wake Forest, I was like, I just want to work from 10 to 3 and be at home my kids and be a professor, but from home. And she was like, it's never going to happen for you. And so when it happened, I was like, you just manifested what your life was going to be. And I was just like, I just knew that I wanted to be able to be home, that if we were blessed to have kids, I wanted to be able to be more present than my parents were able to be for me. And so I have a grandma who was there, but everybody in my family worked. So I wanted to be able to work, but also be there and see the first steps and hear the first words and do all of that then be supportive of Kevin working in athletics. never knew where we were going to live. One year we live in Florida, next year we live in Washington State, next year we live in Missouri, we live in South South Carolina is we're going to live. And so wanting to have a job and being blessed to have a job that stayed with me no matter where we live was great. Let me keep my own identity. So definitely my family. But then also for me, wanting to make sure that there are culturally competent, culturally aware therapists that are trained out there to help people just because. There's so much stigma as relates to mental health and receiving help and seeing a therapist that I want to make sure that if you see somebody who's come and been trained by me from NCCU, that you know that they know what they're doing. And all the faculty there. I think we really take it serious. Like you're going to be a social worker. Let me let know what that means to our field and also to our community.
Speaker: Okay. Y'all heard her. Like, if they came from her, they know what they supposed to be doing. Okay. And going to chime in, Zina, say that if you're worried for the sacrifices that my wife made, that I would never have accomplished my dream of being an athletic director. Mm-hmm. say thank you to her just for those sacrifices. I know the days were tough, right? Like it like we like my my son, our oldest son, Kendrick, there there are days where she's like, we're constantly always looking through our phones at pictures, especially with July being right. Like his birthday is July 7th. Happy early birthday, baby.
Speaker: Thank you. It's birthday season in the Wilson household. so So you'll see these pictures. And I'm just like, man, don't remember that picture. And then she'll literally say, oh, you don't because you was out. You wasn't there. You was out fundraising. That's a fact. You out at this game or you was out with this coach or you was at this meeting. Ouch. Ouch.
Speaker: and it and it and it And it's the reality, like I just wasn't around as much as I thought in my mind. Right. Like it's like it's a grind in athletics. Right. Be in front of people, giving them all of your time. Right. No, not your program. and And I was very serious about being the best. And so.
Speaker: which made me not the best husband and not the best father. Right. And so and that and and um and I'm being accountable. And I definitely want to say if it wasn't for her being there for all those moments, like I would not have been able to accomplish what I accomplished. And so I definitely want to thank her publicly for everything. Well, thank you. Thank you, LaVie. We appreciate you and your resilience. we we We are grateful for you for that. And and and doctor Dr. Kevin Wilson, now I got to start putting... ah i if If I could chime in. No, go for it.
Speaker: in that He's not the best person. I want every, my my son is about to be 10. His dad has never missed any like doctor's appointments and he's made the doctor's appointments and the dentist appointments. Our son has like all of the allergies. So there was tough moments, right? Like he's allergic to eggs and milk and tree nuts and peanuts and dairy and catnip. He's one of those. Don't give him nothing talk to one of us or he read it, right? those kind And so early on, and then he has asthma and then he has eczema. So early on, it was a lot of tough times.
Speaker: But I would say, I think during COVID, when we both were like in the house and we were we having our second child, he was able to spend even more time with Patrick, then also our our youngest, our middle son, he's not our youngest anymore, our middle son, and just kind of see how much goes into the daily day of like pumping and working and trying to know teach this child this and that. And so when his standard of not being present and not being good is different than what other people may think the standard Fair. Now I'm going to hop in here.
Speaker: Right. Because again, dr Dr. Kevin and I have a um have a a different ah foundation. Right. So we we have a link. My father. My father is the link. And I just want to put it out there across the board to the people, the great people that are listening and to your family. Like my dad wasn't home.
Speaker: He was with Dr. Gavin, he was with y'all. He was out in the, and I'm not even gonna say in the streets. He was out in, you know, helping and and working and making sure that the world had the foundation it needed so that I could do stuff like this. You know what saying? So that I could reach out to his colleagues and build rapport with people that he had um he had poured into. So I just want to be very clear that yes, it may seem like I wasn't there.
Speaker: I wasn't. And you weren't. And I get it. But you were when it mattered. And you you were there. Your children know you. Your children love you. I love my dad. Nobody could ever say anything to me ever in this lifetime that would make me deflect him and believe that His sacrifice didn't mean anything. And I need you to understand that, Dr. Kevin, um that those sacrifices were essential to get you to where all of you are now. OK, and your babies will recognize that as time goes on. Now, will it hurt from time to time? Sure. Same for for for Dr. Levite. Like, I get it. Like, there are going to be sacrifices that have to be made.
Speaker: that we as children don't necessarily understand in the moment. But as time goes on, as as things evolve, as things grow, it's going to be like, oh I get it now.
Speaker: i i see I see who he was outpouring into. i'm I'm here for it. I i respect it. i can I can see it. It may hurt on the front end, but in the grand scheme of things, I need you to understand that that was essential for that moment.
Speaker: Absolutely. Okay. and And those are my own little two cents. I'm not going to sit here and and keep harping on it. ah But I just need you to understand that the the love outweighs all of that.
Speaker: Absolutely. And you are going to be a higher education administrator, realize that you're working in the evenings and you're working on the weekends as well as during the day. And I think sometimes people think it's going to be a normal 40-hour work week, like five, and it's not. And then when you're working at a historically Black college university, you might wear multiple hats. So you might- be the VP of this and the VP of this and the VP of that. And so you have to give your attention to all of the players.
Speaker: Big facts. Big facts. Okay. I'm here for it. So we have discussed the purpose behind your work, the pivot points and the resilience and process. And I think that we we did a good job wrapping that up. So great people, make sure you run that back and and grab your notebook and really take notes on what what was provided to you, what was fed to you today. so But now I want to hop into the application and what our listeners can actually take away, those lessons, your process, and maybe even even some future focuses that that we can we can plant, right? So lessons for others. What is one mindset shift or practice that has helped you to succeed?
Speaker: I would say moving at the speed of change. it's It's something I adapted from one of the former head coaches that I worked with at my previous institution, Coach Jermaine Gales, who outside of sport is a tremendously knowledgeable individual. He's been a part of championship teams. He's just an all-around dude that really cares about everybody he interacts with. – it was So for me, um it's it's just understanding that at the end of the day, you have to move at the speed of change. Like a lot of things happen in administration.
Speaker: A lot of things happen on a day to day basis. And it's about how you're going to handle things. those is instances. Right. um And so for me, it's really helped me, especially being at our HBCUs.
Speaker: Like if if if something like we we've got building issues, we've got you got administrative turnover. Like I don't that stuff never rattles me. It's like, all right cool. I understand. When are we having the meeting? What's the plan action? okay get stunned and and and i'll and i'll kind of just stay still it's like all right we're pivoting this way can we with this is the way that that that administration our leadership says uh we got to be successful let's do it and we're and i'm fortunate now to have a leader um and my dean dr carter francic my chair uh dr tammy extra carol two great leaders um as well as our president dr rosin artist and so uh like
Speaker: we we We handle change better than any. You know, mean, that's why today's dynamic politically doesn't necessarily make me nervous because I know we've got great leadership from the top but top down. So again, just move at the speed of change.
Speaker: I love that. Okay. Received. Received. All right. Dr. Levy, what do we have? Don't compare yourself to anybody else. Beyonce says she only compares herself to what she did last year. And that's what I try to do. Like if I wrote book chapters last year, then this year I want to write a textbook.
Speaker: If this year i write I wrote a textbook, I want to write a textbook and maybe a self-help book. I always try to do better than what I did last year. And I don't focus on what other people are doing because I think you don't find joy in that. You find joy when you are continuously growing what you want to do and what you're passionate about.
Speaker: No contest. and not no not one Not one comment from me on on that other than I agree. Okay. All right. so let's talk about the process, right? So how has your thinking evolved as you've advanced?
Speaker: I would say I'm more confident in the decisions that I make and the opinions that I offer. I would say outside of North Carolina Central where I worked, a University of Central Florida, where i worked, arguably one of the best places I've i've had the opportunity to work and at Fayetteville State University as well. okay I never really had a voice.
Speaker: right like like I felt like whenever I was in a room, we needed to make decisions. My opinion didn't matter. but I was saying I had to literally make a million points to to argue or say, hey, like this, this makes sense. Right. um At certain places. and it And it kills your confidence. It makes you turtle. It makes you say, all right, well, whatever I have to say, it doesn't matter.
Speaker: And so. know Now I'm Benedict, whenever we're making a decision or my dean or my chair asks my opinion, i say it with confidence. okay Whether it's right or wrong. i that I'll be that loud and wrong guy. I'm okay with that, right? Like, cause because people make mistakes and people are wrong, I'm okay with that. But but I know that my my my opinions and the things I have to offer are backed by research, not research. and so And so I speak with confidence in rooms, I don't allow anybody to quiet my voice. And so I would say,
Speaker: build kind of s speed confidence I think that that's important. um I think that I think even taking that a step further, your your degree of confidence helps on earth, even if you were wrong.
Speaker: I mean, granted, you're I'm sure with research backing it, you're you're a great deal of right. But even if you were wrong, it still sparks the conversation that needs to be had. You know, that someone else may be too timid to to unearth.
Speaker: But you sitting there peeling back that that ah that bandaid and be like, no, we need talk about this. And this is why we need to talk about it. I think that that's important. And more people should be doing that in in public spaces or even private spaces like conversations need to be had. So kudos to you for for for learning, for leaning into that. Yeah.
Speaker: Dr. LaVie, what about you? I think trying to be open to what I may do in the future and not trying to box myself in. I think sometimes when you are in a specific career, you think I can only do this thing or I can only present myself or be in this way, but realizing that i have transferable skills that can go other places and do other things. And so just being open as you know life goes on, like right now I'm doing this, but as life goes on, I may change and want to do something else. And That's OK. I think we often are told that we are doing one thing and that's all we can do. But I think it's important for us to go on a continuum. And if this is the what I want to do now, I can use what I've learned and and transition it to something else.
Speaker: Y'all heard that word. Y'all heard the buzzword transferable skills. y'all ah You better audit your circles and know what you you're good at. Absolutely. y'all Y'all better sit down. Transferable skills. Okay. I love that. Thank you. um Awesome. Okay. So we have discussed your router moments and the application, and I have a couple more questions, but before I get into those, is there anything that I haven't asked that you would like to bring up and put on the podcast for the for the great people and the great listeners? Anything? Anything at all?
Speaker: NTT? No? no No, just always do what you're passionate about. Don't worry about money. Money will come. Y'all heard her. And I co-sign on that. Look, how how does it go? And i always say it wrong, but for some reason, it still sounds like it's right. Well, form follows function.
Speaker: Right. You know, you kind of you kind of find a problem. And when you recognize like, oh, this needs a solution, everything else will just flow into place. Right. i'm I'm sure there's something scientific that goes in tandem with that. And great people feel free to blow up my comments explaining whatever I'm missing. But y'all get what I'm saying.
Speaker: Absolutely. You get what I'm saying. All right. So what's next for y'all? um How can listeners support your journey? any Any projects coming down the pipeline that we we need to be aware of? Anything?
Speaker: For me, I was just informed that I'll be stepping into a new role at Benedict College. I'll be serving as the director of our master's in sport management program. Wow. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I am humbled that they saw fit to give me the opportunity. And so we transition out of esports. I'll still be kind of Dr. Justin Marchegiani I'm assisting in that regard got a wonderful talent that will be stepping into my my shoes there. Okay.
Speaker: Professor Myron Jones. But, but my focus will be on all of our master's students and our master's program in the curriculum. Dr. Justin Marchegiani I'm to you know have professionals that are in the in the space that truly want to contribute and so. I'm very excited about that. And it's 100 percent online program. And so we are able to meet our students where they are. A lot of people don't know that our master's program exists. And so I'm looking to change that. OK, that we are to the athletic space, athletic leadership space where Jackson State has been to the presidency.
Speaker: If you notice Jackson State or more presidents HBCUs than any other institution. And so we want to be like that, but in an athletic leadership space globally, it doesn't matter where it's rec, athletics, professional. We want to make sure if you're looking for a competent, passionate black leader in the space that you're going to be coming to get them from Benedict college. so I'm sorry, hold up.
Speaker: run Give me 20 seconds. run Run it back. i you are did you Did you just say, I'm going to make sure I heard what I thought, or what I think I heard. So you're saying that Jackson State has produced more college or university presidents. Is that what you were saying? HBCU, like more HBCU presidents. Yes. And the other institution. I feel like I should have known that, but that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful statistic. And what you're saying is that now with this program that you are now responsible for in sports management at Benedict, you are looking to produce that same degree, that same caliber of, of graduate coming out of your program.
Speaker: Right. and when you And when you think about it, right, like you can you can point to these cradles, right? Like in Miami, like they they they put more head coaches in seats. I would say Ohio University, they've actually placed more athletic directors throughout the country. than any other master's program. When you think about HBCUs, you can't pinpoint a university that's put leadership in place, engineers in place.
Speaker: right you Howard can hang their hat on a lot of things they've done, so can you and and a bunch of others. But when when you think about hiring right or when you think about getting talent from a particular place, there's no one HBCU you could just say, hey,
Speaker: That's where we need to go. exactly Not to say that that's not a bad that's not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing. It isn't. Because all of our HBCUs contribute more doctors. was We know that, right? yeah But in terms of our niche and and and our reputation, we want people to say, well, man, like that that what are the chances that this leader, that leader hu all came from this institution?
Speaker: That's intention. And so that's what I want our brand to be. okay And I think we definitely have the faculty and and and the and the culture to do that and attract that level of talent.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. I respect it. I respect it Dr. LeVe, what about you? So of course, if anyone is in the North Carolina area and looking for an and MSW program, please visit North Carolina Central University. I would be remiss if I didn't say that. and in the future, we plan to have an online MSW program. But I've written a textbook to teach practitioners on how to better diagnose people of color called Real Assessments. And it's using like film as a way to identify mental health symptoms. And then in the future, I'm going to do like a self-help book that talks about somatic symptoms of anxiety and depression. A lot of times if you are exhibiting the somatic symptoms, people won't recognize that those are still symptoms of depression. So my head's hurting, my stomach's hurting, my body's hurting can also be depression or anxiety, not just I'm feeling sad or I'm feeling nervous. So trying to more awareness to as much as I can it relates to the mental health space.
Speaker: Can I just probe at the fact that you just slid in the fact that you wrote a whole textbook and like like like it's nothing? Like, yeah, um this year i wrote a text. First of all, you hinted at it at the front. Like i wrote a couple of chapters. Next year i'll I'll write a textbook. Oh, and by the way, yes, I have a textbook. That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. It's on Kindle Hunt Publishing. And so it was all last summer is what I did. Looking forward to doing something else like that in the future after another book, but just enjoying the fact that I got it done kind of like, Ooh, I can't believe it. So while raised in three boys, right? Yeah. always all school three boys
Speaker: i'm I'm in that boat with you. wait minute You're homeschooling and you're, you're, still you're, you're an administrator. a high level Yeah. correct We have a schedule so a schedule that we haven' been stay that we have to stay on. That is beautiful. time She's a unicorn. She is a unicorn. Unicorn. Thank you. like I love... oh my gosh. Thank you. You know what?
Speaker: thank Thank you for for bringing you know her her star power, her starness to this this podcast. That is beautiful. You have a career. You're homeschooling. You have four boys. You read the textbook. I'm the fourth. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Three boys and a husband.
Speaker: um i'm not going I'm not going to reduce you to that, but I get it. But I'm not going to reduce you to to that. Three boys, a husband, a whole entire family, because you got to take care of yourself, too. A book, your homeschooling, and you have a whole career.
Speaker: Yeah. Girl, bless your heart. you Yeah, yeah she she is a unicorn. Dr. Kevin, you did a great job. I did. I did. yeah You hit the lotto on this one. yeah I did. I think sometimes when you're a woman, people make you feel like if you're a mom, if you're a wife, you don't get to pursue your career as well. And so I've been thankful to have a supportive husband. And so I'm like, hey, I want to do this. And he's like, OK, what do we need to do to get it done until we get it done? So I'm very appreciative of that. there Fair, fair. Off the cusp conversation or question. How did y'all meet?
Speaker: hu that Is that a public facing conversation? is that- Oh yeah, it's fine. It's fine. You want me to tell her or you want to tell it? I feel like you tell it better, but I tell it just just for remedy. Let's see how you do. Okay. She'll fill in.
Speaker: yeah so So initially we were both at law school in North Carolina Central. Okay. and In 2009? 2008. 2008. and so so we were both 1Ls and arguably the hardest section 101. Yeah.
Speaker: And so, and I was a PBAP kid, right? So i I had to go through that program over the summer just to get in. Okay. But my wife, she got in just off the strength of her scores, as as you can tell.
Speaker: But the last thing that we did was focus on the law. Yeah. And we both failed out. Yeah. Yeah. yeah So we both failed out after our first year. it was it was tough for me. i had never failed at anything ever.
Speaker: Right? like and so um And so, but it it it's funny. The first like year or so, I thought it was because I just was not smart right but i had literally transitioned to my master's program in central and kept it moving i was i was doing well i just wasn't passionate about the law okay right like everybody was you know i always tell people i joke with people when you're guyanese my whole family's from guyana okay and so it to me they're like nigerian adjacent right okay but you know nigeria's tell you gonna be a doctor you're gonna be a lawyer you know it's like just small
Speaker: So for guy need like Caribbean folk, like you're gonna do this and this is what you're good at. And in my mind, i was like, okay, well I like to argue so I can do the law, right? I can do sport law, but it wasn't something I was very, when you get into the bones of civil procedure and criminal law and civil law and the rip, the bones of it,
Speaker: it really peels back if you're serious or not. And I wasn't serious. And so but but literally she was sitting in three rows behind me and always made fun of her last name, is Renfro at the time. So I remember this beautiful girl coming into class every day with a beautiful smile.
Speaker: And I just literally was always messing with her to get her attention. For my birthday, she got me a card, in a gift card. My sorority sister said, hey, because he DJs as well, which he where he didn't say. And so, there you know, the the guy from Atlanta, from Duke, he DJs. And my sorority sister Judge Tiffany Whitfield was like, y'all should date. And I was like, nobody think about that boy. He went to Duke. He not think about me. And so she buys a birthday card and um cupcakes. And I said, well, I got this blockbuster card. Put it in there. And we all, like it was like four of us, we signed the card and gave it to him. like, thank you for the card. I'm like, how you know? I gave you the blockbuster card. And so my birthday is September 11th and his September 3rd. So he's like, when I come back for my birthday, let's go on a date. And we went on a date and been together forever. kind of ever since. I see i knew the first day when our civil procedure professor came in and said,
Speaker: are there any emotions i was like what did i do Why am I in law school? I don't pay for this semester though. Right. I'm like, this was not for me. And I went because I was already doing therapy and I i was working with teenagers and they were having like um legal problems as well as their semester. was like, oh, I can be a one-stop shop. you can do therapy and get legal services. That sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker: I didn't like the law. It was just not for me. And I knew that I would say at orientation, like I was like, oh, I've made a mistake. I didn't feel comfortable in saying it. So like him, I was sad at first. I had never failed at anything. Then I was like, oh, how do you dare y'all fail me? Like it went from left i like, wait a minute, I failed? Like, but I thought I did this that. But realizing like we, when everybody else was studying, we were watching movies. We were going to the movies, going to do gardens, going out to eat. Yeah.
Speaker: weren't studying. So it was on us. So if you go to law school, study. Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel like the deeper story is if you go to law school, make sure it's where you want to be. yes Correct. You know, like, it so yes, if you go to any type of school, study, but if you go to law school, it's it's a mighty commitment. Absolutely. That's a beautiful story though. I'm glad that y'all, y'all, I'm glad that y'all meshed on, on a similar foundation just so that y'all can move forward to where y'all are now. That's, that's beautiful.
Speaker: yeah And he was like, i was going to go back home to Connecticut. And he was like, well, why don't you stay here? and I well, if I don't get a job by July 1, then I'm to go back home. And I got a job. And that was it. You in this manifestation. would have changed her. If she would have got that job, I would have been gone too. You would been straight in Connecticut too. I'm coming with you. All right.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I think that there's are a lot of gems um even hidden under the surface of what you just shared with us today. But um I have one more final question.
Speaker: What is one, and I always say like in parentheses, public facing thing that people don't know about you? So it's something that you don't mind sharing, but it's not a secret, but you just don't mind sharing.
Speaker: Yeah, my wife alluded to it. I used to be a DJ. Well, I mean, I feel like once always. So, I mean, I still i sold my equipment when we lived in r in North Carolina, but I've been always looking to to get back into it because we love music. Like when we're cleaning, like our middle kid and our and our youngest, they literally have a ah soundtrack in their head. like All the time. All the time. So being Caribbean, like you always dancing, moving. so Yeah, I'm definitely going to get my equipment back and get back after. Okay. I love it. So we we're looking for ah for a playlist. We need ah we need a playlist. got you. got plenty. I got plenty. I love that. Okay. I feel like I never knew you were a DJ. So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker: worries. not as fancy as him. I'm trying to think of- That she used to like when we used to throw parties. Yeah, I used host. She was a beautiful young lady at the door. I used to like, hello, come in. No question. Take your money. Yeah.
Speaker: Look, so y'all been paired up for a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Hustle it. What is something that people don't know about me? I can't even think of something. I used to play soccer.
Speaker: In high school, like years. she she So she never thinks- For like a little bit of time. Because she didn't do it collegiately, like she's like, oh- I know, it still counts. Correct. it's still It still counts. done that But I like left- She was the head of the NAACP. Oh yeah, i was the college president. She was college president. like Yeah, she that Those are big things. So you played soccer.
Speaker: Yeah, for like a like a short. Okay, but you know the rules of soccer. Yes, yes. Okay, so you you played soccer, and then you were the president of the NCAA.
Speaker: not I'm sorry, NCAA. Oh, my gosh. NAACP, right? NAACP, yep. NAACP, yep. in up north? Yep, at UConn in Connecticut. Yep, and for that for that Connecticut chapter. And the person who was the regional director was the person who got me to go to Wisconsin because he had, when his name was Diallo Shabazz, and the University Wisconsin took up an image of him and posted it him in a football game that he wasn't at to try to show that there was diversity. And so because of that, he made complaints that said, you need to truly make the university diverse, not just cut and paste diversity. And so they had a number of fellowships that they would give to people that were only in state and Wisconsin, and I applied and they gave me one of the fellowships, even though i was out of state. And so I went to Wisconsin. So it was just kind of like a meant to be kind of thing.
Speaker: Wow. You just said a lot. And my brain started going in so many different directions that, wow. Wisconsin sounds cold. that That's where my brain went first. Okay. Being from Connecticut, it's even colder. Like I tell people, nothing will prepare you for like a negative 10, negative 15.
Speaker: wind chill no people driving with snow with chains on their tires like i'm from you know connecticut where it snows but it's not snow like that and then washington state was even worse forget about it yeah no you know what's so funny when we were dating um she used to all like she speaks so highly about her time in wisconsin yeah right like i i definitely kudos to them yeah um and so you know i was trying to impress and And so I took her, I had one of my colleagues, he worked at Wisconsin at the time, Tim.
Speaker: He's literally worked for the Raiders now. But Tim was literally over all the facilities. And so she didn't know, but I said, hey, I'll take her on a date. And so I took her on a date back in Chicago and Wisconsin. And so we went to a football game and I went to my first Wisconsin football game, saw the whole jump around everything. Got to meet lot of her sorors because they're still out there. Like Marsha and some really great people. I like to think that that date was one of the ones where she was like, yeah.
Speaker: He's the one. He'll work. Yeah. It's like you go certain places and it feels like home. like North Carolina felt like home. Madison felt like home. Anytime I go to Chicago, it felt like home. like I go certain places and i like oh, this feels like familiar. It still sounds cold.
Speaker: it still sounds called It it called very cold very very cold the template is inside yeah we cold. We're not sitting outside. I like cold fashion, but I think that's the extent of my my excitement with cold. i Look, you like it. I love it. let's yeah Let's go with that. Well, I have asked all my questions and y'all have tag teamed and provided amazing insight and I'm super grateful. I'm going ask one more time.
Speaker: Is there anything that y'all would like to say or speak to before we sign off and give these great people back their their attention waves? Yeah. So my one thing, I'm a big position guy, right? Like being a former student athlete, I feel like everybody has a role to play. So I would just...
Speaker: ask everybody kind of take 10 minutes or so to kind of think about the position that they play in the classroom, if they're a professor, their job, if they're a professional, if they are a teammate, a student athlete, or just in your household, right?
Speaker: Think about what that position is and think about how you can be better at it every day. and think about what your role is and just and just take the next day and do it. I think that's an accountability exercise that I've had to try and do in my growth as ah as a Black man. And so I would just encourage everybody to reflect. i don't think we reflect enough. I think the pandemic happened for a reason to make everybody reflect and be like, hey, what is this thing called life really about? And so you need to Take a minute to think about what your role and in the peoples around in your life and the people around you and just really kind of just take the next step and just do it.
Speaker: I love that. and And I agree. yeah You should definitely recognize what your role is and if it's in alignment with who you are and who you're becoming. I respect that on on all levels. Well, thank you so much. I'm so grateful that y'all chose to share your story on the Greatness Router today and and grace us with your presence and your stories and your gems and your highs and your lows. I'm so grateful for for the two of you. um Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. And to our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in and listening to this beautiful story, the story of love and resilience and focus and pressure and guidance. It's just been an amazing opportunity to a story and hear this journey come from two individuals who have chosen each other. I'm so grateful for your attention for is the next best thing next to love that you can give someone. Thank you so much for your time. I hope you have a beautiful day. And this has been another episode of The Greatness Router.
Speaker: Peace. And that's a wrap on this episode of The Greatness Router. If you found some value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and definitely share.
Speaker: It helps more people connect to the journey of greatness. Until next time, keep moving with purpose.
