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Ep. 0025 | Thinking Beyond The Surface
1 Plays3 seconds ago
What does it mean to truly think critically?
In this episode of The GR8TNESS Router, Zena C. sits down with retired educator, journalist, and communications scholar Dr. Phillip Jeter for a conversation that stretches far beyond media literacy.
Drawing from more than four decades in journalism and higher education, Dr. Jeter reflects on the professors who shaped his thinking, the unexpected pivots that redirected his career, and why education should challenge us—not simply prepare us for a job. Together, they explore the value of asking better questions, embracing complexity, understanding history, and remaining intellectually curious throughout life.
Whether discussing philosophy, higher education, journalism, or the importance of perspective, this conversation serves as a reminder that some of the greatest lessons begin with a willingness to reconsider what we think we know.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Greatness Router, where we connect purpose to process one conversation at a time.
Introducing Dr. Philip Jeter
00:00:23
Speaker
Great day, beautiful people. It's me, Zina C. And I am here with an amazing guest, one of my former instructors from the great Johnson C. Smith University. And I am so honored to be in the presence of Dr. Philip Jeter, okay?
00:00:38
Speaker
I have a nice little bio for you, and he does not know what I'm about to say. So I'm sure I'm about to get some ah some side eyes and some smiles and some some nods of endearment, maybe.
00:00:53
Speaker
But here we go.
Dr. Jeter's Career and Media Influence
00:00:54
Speaker
Today's conversation is one I've been looking forward to for quite some time. Our guest, Dr. Philip Jeter, is a retired educator, scholar, and communications leader whose career has been more than four decades across journalism, broadcasting, media studies, and higher education.
00:01:13
Speaker
From working in public television and news media to serving in faculty, administrative, and leadership roles at institutions, including Florida A&M University, Johnson C. Smith University, Middle Tennessee State University, and Winston-Salem State University, Dr. Jeter has dedicated his life to helping others understand not only how media works, but how it shapes the way we see the world.
00:01:40
Speaker
Throughout his career, he has developed academic programs, led accreditation efforts, mentored generations of students, and contributed to the national conversation around journalism, communication, and media literacy.
00:01:53
Speaker
His work has earned him numerous honors, including recognition as the Edward Bliss Distinguished Broadcast Journalism Educator. Personally, i invited Dr. Jeter to the table because long before I understood branding and storytelling or the power of symbols and messages, he challenged me to think more critically about the information we consume every day.
00:02:15
Speaker
His influence extends far beyond the classroom, and I'm excited to explore the lessons, experiences, and perspectives he's gathered throughout an extraordinary career. Please. Please join me in welcoming Dr. Philip Cheater to the stage. Howdy, howdy, howdy.
00:02:32
Speaker
and Thank you. And you are too kind with the good words. I appreciate them. Everyone. I'm so appreciative of you. Look, we're we're excited to to share ah to share audiences, and I'm excited for for you to start probing the brains and minds of the people that are going to be listening the way you're going to do mine, too. So I normally start with a couple of icebreakers.
00:02:57
Speaker
um My first one is if you could have a candid, unfiltered conversation with any historical figure, who would it be and why?
A Conversation with Frederick Douglass?
00:03:12
Speaker
Probably Frederick Douglass, actually. i think his life is so interesting given from where he started to where he ended up being the sort of spokesman for Black people.
00:03:24
Speaker
And also ah for some of the personal um things in his life. How did he reconcile his private behavior with his public persona? that's That's a fair conversation that should be had that probably a lot of people should be having, but I respect it. I'm here for Frederick Douglass.
00:03:45
Speaker
What is another one I would like to do? so You began your journey as a public television intern, I believe, and eventually you found yourself leading programs and mentoring future communicators.
Academic Journey and Passion for Media
00:03:59
Speaker
Looking back, did a younger Phil Jeter ever have any idea that the path the path that you, this path would lead you? Like, did you know you would be where you are right now back then?
00:04:13
Speaker
No. um If you're talking about the young Phil Jeter, He entered Johnson C. Smith University as a freshman in the fall of 1967 with the intent of being okay a mechanical engineer. I wanted to design cars for General Motors and work at Fisher Body.
00:04:36
Speaker
But at Johnson C. Smith, I um was a ill-advised in terms of my freshman year, the courses that I needed to take.
00:04:48
Speaker
So I took it upon myself to change my schedule. And that was the, um the those those are the seeds of my freshman year, almost destruction.
00:05:03
Speaker
Instead of staying in the college algebra class that I placed in through the tests, ah I saw in the catalog And that's the way they advised us then. They said, here's a catalog, figure it out.
00:05:17
Speaker
And it said that my freshman year, I needed calculus one. Well, I knew I wasn't ready for calculus one. So I enrolled in a five hour math class instead of a three hour college algebra class.
00:05:31
Speaker
And then the curriculum guide also said I needed this first part of organic chemistry, inorganic chemistry. a four hour class. So here I am a freshman, I'm taking 17 hours and nine of them are in these two classes and I'll, you know, some transcripts, so I'll share it with the world.
00:05:52
Speaker
I got a D
From Debate to Journalism
00:05:53
Speaker
in that five-hour math class and a C in the chemistry class. So needless to say, that um almost torpedoed my first semester um GPA. So I came to the conclusion that i um I would have to probably stay in college six years if I wanted to really pursue the engineering ah degree, because that was the gap in my academic experience that I need to make up.
00:06:24
Speaker
So during the course of, and hope this story isn't too long, but while I was trying to juggle my schedule, I was trying to drop freshman composition one.
00:06:35
Speaker
And the person i was assigned to said, I'm i'm not doing that. You're a freshman, you need that class. ah And this was Professor Blue, Henry Blue.
00:06:46
Speaker
And in the office he shared, there was a person sitting across from him and he said, Ms. Benson teaches freshman, well, maybe you can get in her class.
00:06:57
Speaker
Well, her class was eight o'clock Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So I said in the morning, so I said, okay. So I got her English class and that turned out to be the only A I got that semester.
00:07:14
Speaker
What I came to realize, particularly in those math and chemistry classes, was that the professors were trying to hold us to a standard to get us ready to ah become our dreams, whatever they may be.
00:07:32
Speaker
And um there were two sections of inorganic chemistry the first semester with maybe probably 25 people in each one. The next semester, instructor had one section with about 12 people.
00:07:46
Speaker
but Of those 12 people, I know four went on to become medical doctors or dentists. So she was getting us ready for the big time.
00:08:00
Speaker
And after that semester, I said, well, maybe I'll change my major. So it became a campus joke. Jeter, what's your major this semester? I changed it seven times.
00:08:12
Speaker
But unbeknownst to me, that English instructor that I mentioned, Ms. Benson, um was a, ah I'm pretty sure I can say this, because I think it's true.
00:08:26
Speaker
She was the first woman, she went to Ohio State, she she was the first woman to win the national debating competition between all the big mucky muck schools.
00:08:40
Speaker
And so Johnson C. Smith was getting ready to revive or start a debating team. And as a freshman, I'm going, well, I'm going out for the team and if i'm in maybe I can make the traveling team by my junior year because that's what I wanted to do, go and see other campus.
00:08:58
Speaker
Well, Sarah Jane threw us in the deep end. We went to the Harvard tournament. We went to the Northern Illinois tournament. We went to the Hampton tournament. And by the second year, we were known from the competing schools. I remember at one time at the at the one tournament, one guy two guys brother the team said, oh, there are those guys from Johnson C. Smith.
00:09:24
Speaker
They kicked our ass the last time. And so second year, we won. ah We placed third in the Wake Forest Tournament.
00:09:35
Speaker
And my partner, Dr. Van Stitt, won the um best speaker, one of the best speaker awards. And so in two years, that's where Ms. Benson got us in shape to do, um to compete against other schools.
00:09:53
Speaker
And that's when I started to get into communications. And then um when we had Lyceum speakers, I would... um go um record a little snippet of them in the radio station. WGIV at the time would let me air my reports. If we had a protest or something, I would cover that for them, all for free, of course.
00:10:17
Speaker
And um in my senior year, um friend of mine, Julia Jones, was the editor of the school newspaper, and she convinced me to join the staff.
00:10:29
Speaker
And so there were only maybe a handful of us, six or seven. And one night we were putting out the newspaper and the advisor was ah at that time, editorial writer for the Charlotte Observer.
00:10:42
Speaker
And he said, um okay, Jeter, you know what's your major this semester? And it ultimately came French because it was just easy to get a course and there was never a line at the French table.
00:10:55
Speaker
And I said, well, i don't want to teach high school French and I didn't take any education courses and I don't want to sell insurance. And he said, have you ever thought about going to graduate school for journalism? I said, you mean you can just switch like that?
00:11:10
Speaker
He said, you may have to take a few extra courses, but yeah, you can do that. So
Graduate School at Cornell
00:11:15
Speaker
as I was thinking about um future plans, When the recruiters came on campus, and we're talking the early 70s, so there were a lot of um there was a lot of interest on corporate America for getting ah Black people and into their staffs. I'm sure. And so the recruiters kept Shell Oil, Continental Can, American Can.
00:11:39
Speaker
i only talked to the graduate school recruiters. I didn't talk to any of those people because I knew I didn't want that life. that life Anyway, about that time, there was a very famous picture of on either time or news, we actually probably appeared in other places.
00:11:58
Speaker
But the Blacks, some of the Black students at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York, took over the union um to demand stuff.
00:12:10
Speaker
can't remember what the demands were. But the famous picture I'm talking about is that they came out of the straight because it was the straight how, but we call it the straight. um with guns and bandoleros with bullets.
00:12:25
Speaker
And what Cornell's response was, was to send recruiters to virtually all of the black HBCUs to get some students.
00:12:36
Speaker
Because as we were graduating, they know we could, you know, be there, you know, by the next fall. So anyway, ah and so I, that's how I wound up going to Cornell for my master's.
00:12:51
Speaker
And at the time I was there, we had students from Blackstone Morehouse, Florida A&M, South Carolina State, Jackson State. And so my experience at Cornell,
00:13:04
Speaker
was probably atypical for certainly most of the Ivy League schools at the time because we probably had as many Black graduate students who knew about the college experience and what we had to do if we wanted to graduate than there were undergraduate, probably outnumbered them overall.
00:13:27
Speaker
And so that's how I wound up in journalism. And luckily enough, After I finished my coursework, my first job was with United Press International in Buffalo, New York.
00:13:41
Speaker
And Buffalo um well was a big sports town, and that that pleased me. They had the Sabres hockey team, Buffalo Bills football team. O.J. Simpson was in his prime.
00:13:55
Speaker
I did interview the Juice at one point a couple of times. Oh, wow. And the Braves NBA team with Bob McAdoo in his prime. So I saw a bunch of great athletes. And that's, as they say frequently, sometimes if you could do these things,
00:14:14
Speaker
and not get paid, would you still do them? And it'd be yes. Cause I saw all Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Gail Goodrich, Randy Smith, Gil Perot. I remember them all to this day. And I probably would have gotten a job, I don't know, somewhere else and and did stuff like that.
00:14:37
Speaker
And so that's how I wound up in journalism.
Career Reflections and Hollywood Dreams
00:14:41
Speaker
I'm amazed because one, that's a fabulous journey. It's a fabulous journey with a bunch of different experiences and and meetings or crossing with ah with other people, which is amazing.
00:14:54
Speaker
But even hearing this, hindsight being 20-20, I see why you went into academic affairs. like I can see you saving the rest of us because we don't know what we're doing. And you're like, well, let me help y'all because I've gone the roundabout way to um to to achieve these degrees. So that's that's amazing to know your backstory as to how you even got to those those titles or to those positions. So I'm i'm amazed. Thank you for sharing that.
00:15:29
Speaker
Well, that's one of the issues I have with higher education these days. I think it's very difficult when you're 17 or 18 years old to know what you want to do for 40 years of working until you're 65, 66, 67, 70.
00:15:46
Speaker
sixty five sixty six sixty seven seventy And so if you come to a university, it ought to transform you in some way about the way you you view the world.
00:16:01
Speaker
And share with my students for a number of years a story I read in the Wall Street Journal, where it said that in order to i get a leg up on McDonald's, Burger King spent a year working on a French fry.
00:16:19
Speaker
Now, I can't think of anything more boring in the world to spend a year trying to produce a better French fry. And so if you want to come in as a freshman, only know you want business.
00:16:35
Speaker
And then what's going to happen if you run across somebody like Sarah Jane Benson, like I did, who shows you a different view on the world?
00:16:48
Speaker
i remember taking her ah classes. And she was, I'm pretty sure, the first professor I had that allowed us to talk openly about money and power, sex, and homosexuality. I remember we read The Immoralist by Andre Geed, and none of us freshly wanted to say these were homosexuals. And she had to say, say the word.
00:17:17
Speaker
Oh, like, look, we need Yeah, we we we we we we we wouldn't we wouldn't we didn't want to say the word even though we were thinking it.
00:17:28
Speaker
And it was she basically she was giving us permission to speak up. What's on your mind? I'll guide you if I think you're really off track.
00:17:40
Speaker
I wound up taking all my freshman company, all my first lit courses from her. Look, Smith will do that to You you get attached to to a teacher who stimulates your brainwaves and you like, hold on. You can't go anywhere.
00:17:55
Speaker
um my teachers left me, though. All y'all left me. Of all the ones I had, and I won't mention that person, I think i only had one not good professor. I'll say not good. I think he knew his subject matter, but he was just...
00:18:12
Speaker
not good, but everybody else. I took world civilization from a a Holocaust Polish survivor.
00:18:23
Speaker
And um i did I give an example of how his his teachings affected me. um World civilization, so we talked about you know the rise of Islam and stuff like that.
00:18:36
Speaker
And so later on after 9-11, ah nine eleven I heard George Bush on the air, President Bush, ah talk about Crusades. And I'm going, what are these people talking about? Did they cut world civilization that day that they talked about the Crusades and what that word it means?
00:18:56
Speaker
And this is Dr. Klepka from his world civ class. So I had great teachers like that. Like I said, as far as I, every time I try to recall, I only got one.
00:19:08
Speaker
And like I said, I won't mention his name, but I i think he was just not good. but Not good. And look, look, y'all, one thing y'all need to know.
00:19:21
Speaker
So I took I took media literacy and criticism under Dr. Jeter my sophomore year at Johnson C. Smith University. And when I say it was a six to nine class on Tuesday, it was once a week. I think it was on Tuesdays or Thursdays. was one of two. it was a three hour class. yeah And we was in that entire class.
00:19:41
Speaker
debating what good, what, what, what does good mean? And that, that was the entire, we we would leave with headaches because he would just be probing all types of, of different angles. And I'm just like, look, how do you define good? Like it's different for everybody or it's different based on however they've presented the information, but what does good really mean?
00:20:05
Speaker
Well, that's, um, That's part of the teaching. I mean, when I can, could rather, in my classes, I use the Socratic method. And that means you ask students questions and their answers elicit more questions.
00:20:23
Speaker
And to paraphrase um the great CBS news person, Fred Friendly, my goal was to give my students no option but to think.
Philosophy and Teaching Methods
00:20:38
Speaker
Hmm. I respect that. I receive. I receive. Now, this is completely off off of my my my questions list, but philosophy-wise or philosopher-wise, do you have a specific philosopher who you gravitate towards more or who you enjoy reading or learning about more than others?
00:21:01
Speaker
No, I'm am more of
00:21:05
Speaker
a a I'm a situationist in terms of philosophy. i need to know, for instance, ahs frequently people will when I'm having conversations, they will go, isn't that terrible?
00:21:18
Speaker
And my response is usually, well, I need to know the circumstances around that. I mean, mean there was a reason for that person jumping across the table and grabbing that person him by the throat and in trying to choke them. I mean, sometimes it's justifiable.
00:21:36
Speaker
So I'm a situationist. I need to know as many the facts as possible before I come up with the conclusion. I respect that. i I totally respect that. and yes, I need all the details. You're leaving information out. I hate when people tell stories and they intentionally leave out information. And then I'm sitting here like, you know, there's a gap and it's it's not a period. Like there's a massive gap between what you said and what you didn't say. And you didn't say it on purpose. We need to talk about that.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah. It's your fault, Dr. Jeter. It's your fault. Well, because um there are... any number of um schools of thought relative to philosophy. I mean, the hardline people, what's the rule and always follow the rule.
00:22:27
Speaker
And, but I'm saying, well, maybe the rule is not good. A personal story. um One day I was called for jury duty and um I didn't get picked because um if they went once the, um,
00:22:42
Speaker
the lawyers find out that you were an ex reporter, whatever, they don't want you on a jury because you're a always asking questions and stuff like this. But this was traffic court. And so they had one guy and I didn't get picked, but I decided to stick around for the voir dire when they're questioning the jurors that do get picked.
00:23:01
Speaker
And so um they asked one of the questions they asked to all the jurors, if i if I prove to you that somebody broke the law,
00:23:12
Speaker
would you convict him? And so you have to answer yes or no, and then they decide if they want to keep you or not. So this particular case, this is in Florida, a guy was accused of drunk driving, but he was not driving. He was merely drunk behind the wheel.
00:23:31
Speaker
So I would have had to not convict him if I were on the jury, because I don't think you can be drunk driving without driving. so i would have told my answer to the question would have been well it depends on the law because i'm not gonna convict somebody on something that i think is bogus well i never would have seen the latter jury a day here or any other place so that's an example okay operationalize my situation and
00:24:04
Speaker
Received. Received. Okay. Well, you've given us a lot of stories and a lot of backstories. And I kind of want to circle back a little bit and let's just discuss the the purpose behind your work. You gave us the the journey, but there's something that sparked those those triggers even beyond being being stimulated by your your instructors. If you had to pinpoint the moment you knew what you're doing right this moment was your calling,
00:24:34
Speaker
Could you pinpoint it? Well, not really. Part of my interest to the Academy was out of personal necessity.
00:24:47
Speaker
i I've always wanted to be a, well, after I gave up the engineering dreams and ah those other areas, I wanted to um be a screenwriter um working in Hollywood.
00:25:04
Speaker
Well, i let me take that back. My ultimate job when I was in my doctoral work at Wisconsin, I wanted to be um one of the people who programmed one of the commercial networks, ABC, CBS, NBC at the time, Fox, UPN, whatever.
00:25:26
Speaker
But there are only me six jobs like that. And I'm sure a lot of people want that job. So I was working in Chicago when I decided that that was going to be, I was going to give it a shot, you know, pack up my blue Volkswagen and head out to Hollywood.
00:25:48
Speaker
Like Shaka Khan would say, he's on his way going to Hollywood. But my grandparents with whom I grew up became ill.
00:25:59
Speaker
And so they lived in South Carolina where I grew it So anyway, I went back to do what I can to help them take care of them and stuff like that. And so I needed to look for positions closer to South Carolina than Chicago.
00:26:15
Speaker
So my first stop was Hampton University, where i ran the news bureau for a while. And then North Carolina A&T had an opening and I applied for and got it.
00:26:28
Speaker
And after working there for a while, ah They said, well, Gita, we like your work, but you're not going anywhere around here without PhD. So I said, OK, well, let me let me see if I can go get one.
00:26:40
Speaker
And at the time, North Carolina was under a an agreement with. the federal government, I forget which agency, about its dual higher education system in the South.
00:26:53
Speaker
ah You have black land grants, you have you know white land grants, Clemson, South Carolina State, um North Carolina A&T, North Carolina State.
00:27:04
Speaker
And this is all true, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, whatever And so North Carolina came up with this program that they said, we're going to try to get more black faculty at ah black faculty with PhDs at the HBCUs in the state.
00:27:19
Speaker
So we say, if you can get in a PhD program, we'll basically pick up the tab. So as I was looking around um and um I was looking at schools, I met a person, Dr. Pam Johnson, who had just graduated from um Wisconsin in their PhD program.
00:27:40
Speaker
And she convinced me it was a good school. I went to a convention there in the summer of 76 or 77. And like Madison. So I said, okay, well, let me apply.
00:27:55
Speaker
And the condition of taking the money from A&T was that I had to go back and work there two years for every year that they supported me.
00:28:06
Speaker
And so that's how I wound up at A&T initially, as a second time, rather. And that... um led to other positions, Florida A&M, and the leaves I took at Michigan State and places like that.
00:28:23
Speaker
And so needless to say, ah and then in the interim, I got married. um And so it was harder to leave and go to Hollywood once all that kicked in because um I may have said it to you all, when you grow up, you get responsibilities.
00:28:42
Speaker
They just come on. And you need to do the right thing when you can. Take care of your responsibilities. Okay. Okay, cool. and that that makes That makes sense. That clocks.
00:28:55
Speaker
It processes for me. um Was there, and you've you've talked about quite a few, but I'm sure that you have ah and a story that we can
Balancing Academia and Research
00:29:04
Speaker
unearth. Was there ever a time when you almost chose a different path?
00:29:09
Speaker
I mean, yes, you brought up that you wanted to be a mechanical engineer and ended up with the French degree and then going. like So your whole your whole academic career has been a pivot. But even professionally, after your PhD, were you headed one direction? You just like, this isn't it. I need to turn around and go do something else. Well, um once I started working at and at universities,
00:29:37
Speaker
particularly as teaching, I knew what I wanted to do if I wasn't going to go to Hollywood. I just wanted to be a normal professor, teach my classes, have my summers off, i ideally go back to Madison and work on my research.
00:29:55
Speaker
and um and then just teach. But for some reason, ah administrators ah frequently gave me administrative responsibilities, and those meant you were you don't get summers off. you know we We're paying you little more, but you don't get time off.
00:30:14
Speaker
And so I yeah ran the Florida A&M University radio station for probably 12 to 15 years. And it was mostly students and volunteers from the community.
00:30:29
Speaker
And we didn't shut down during the summers like some university radio stations did. So that obviously precluded me from, you know, just being a scholar and ah and and ah and a teacher.
00:30:43
Speaker
And um so of my years in working with universities, probably two thirds of the time was spent in administration.
00:30:54
Speaker
And that was um not my choice, but that was my reality. um And so a lot of times And I knew the way the game was played.
00:31:08
Speaker
And so if you look at my resume, it would show that I probably taught at eight different universities or so out total. And part of that was to get away so I could do the research that i knew would get me a tenure and a promotion. I mean, I knew knew how the game was played, so I played it.
00:31:28
Speaker
Okay. I'm not mad at that. You got to work with what you got. And um if you know the rules, you know, use them to your advantage. I mean, I knew basically when I was ah in Florida, the Florida system, I could get a ah leave without pay um every five or six years.
00:31:50
Speaker
And um so I would just apply if I got fed up with the Rattlers. And um somebody else, they were already looking for either temporary people or less now. So um um what would be the word?
00:32:09
Speaker
Affirmative action people. ah who are competent. So it was always a job somewhere. um and I had a fairly fairly good network from my professional organizations as well.
00:32:21
Speaker
um But that was the that was the system. I mean, liked working at HBCUs. I worked at, excuse me, I liked working with students like yourself because if all the, I'm just going to use the word competent,
00:32:40
Speaker
Black professors go to work for PWIs. Who's going to teach the students at the HBCUs? And that's a they know if you as a professor ah is any good.
00:32:55
Speaker
And they will maybe appreciate, um you know, what you're trying to to do for them and with them. And going back to my freshman year experience, thanks to the good teachers I had in that pre-calculus class and in organic chemistry class, you don't have to worry about driving across the bridge I built or a car I designed.
00:33:22
Speaker
You better stop. You better stop. Wait a minute. So you have referenced this research that you wanted to do at least three times. So what was it that you wanted that you had to leave and go do aside from what they were, what your, your career trajectory was take, where it
Media Diversity and Legal Impact
00:33:41
Speaker
was taking you? Like, what were you, what was your dissertation? That's what you wanted to study more on.
00:33:45
Speaker
One of my um ambitions that never materialized was to own a radio station and a commercial but a commercial radio station. And um it never materialized. I tried a couple of times to to buy a couple of properties, ah usually with partners that you know deserted me for um for reasons I didn't like.
00:34:11
Speaker
And um so my dissertation, e Well, let me back up. um In the late 70s, well, mid 70s, the FCC and the presidents at the time wanted to do more for increasing minority, read that racial minority, and women ownership of broadcast properties.
00:34:37
Speaker
And radios or radio stations are a little cheaper than... um television stations. But anyway, my dissertation was to look at how these, um, policies might actually affect programming.
00:34:54
Speaker
So my dissertation was, I looked at the programming content on the black owned black oriented radio stations compared to the white owned radio stations and The question at the time was, was the content diverse between the two different?
00:35:13
Speaker
And my dissertation proved that it was. And this case ultimately went to the Supreme Court. And so when the Supreme Court wrote for the decision, um Metro Broadcasting versus the FCC, my dissertation,
00:35:34
Speaker
and a friend of mine, the late Mary, and Dr. Marilyn Fife, who Marilyn went to Stanford, that we were the only two dissertations cited in that Supreme Court decision supporting um diversity and programming um because there weren't enough radio, I mean, TV stations around to do the comparison.
00:35:57
Speaker
Marilyn and I, we were in grad school about the same time, but we were we were the two dissertations that made it to the Supreme Court a decision.
00:36:07
Speaker
And so as long as there's an American, Marilyn and I will be a footnote in American legal history. That is so amazing. But it's also confusing because so much so much infrastructure, so much resource was gone into diversifying America. And now we're just sitting here watching it get dismantled like it wasn't necessary. So it's really, it's confusing.
00:36:37
Speaker
It shouldn't be, but it's confusing as to how this is even playing out.
Understanding American History
00:36:44
Speaker
Like what's happening? it It comes down to the ignorance of people about American history.
00:36:53
Speaker
It's just that simple. people um People don't know the things their, I'm going to say, grandfathers, great-grandfathers, and mothers did. For instance, this is an example I use quite frequently. Back in the 60s, probably the before your time, Virginia, rather than desegregate, closed all the public schools.
00:37:23
Speaker
Well, the the that the people who don't want American history taught don't want their children taught that because it might make them feel not good.
00:37:37
Speaker
And so rather than doing what um states and college, even colleges are doing, I mean, if I were teaching today, I'd probably be in the dean's office every month because somebody complained ah about something I said that made them feel good.
00:37:58
Speaker
And so you can't, I just don't know how you can almost teach any subject matter and not talk about ah race, gender,
00:38:09
Speaker
um imperialism, ah and and in and um the country just being not what it's cracked up to be on paper.
00:38:21
Speaker
I mean, the declaration Going back to management, if you if this was a corporation, America's ah vision is all people are created equal.
00:38:37
Speaker
All right, it's a man, but now it's all people. But the way we operationalize it, okay, how are we gonna walk our talk? Our talk is all people are created equal.
00:38:49
Speaker
but we're walking it by not giving women the right to vote for a long time, for not giving Black people the the right to vote or be for a long time.
00:39:03
Speaker
So, you know, people, we need to know that first before we start making a whole bunch of change. And as you watch what's gonna happen this summer, it'll be interesting to see how much they're gonna whitewash our our regular history.
00:39:19
Speaker
I mean, how many how many how many broken treaties do we have with Native Americans that might be still on the books, but we ignore it I mean, the the big one. um Okay, I forget the tribe in the Dakotas.
00:39:36
Speaker
We're gonna stay out, then we find gold. now No, we don't mean what we say yet. Golly.
00:39:50
Speaker
ah You made it so simple for it to be such a complex... it It appears to be a complex issue, which it is. But the the response, the so the not even the solution, the the problem is so so true. Like yeah you don't want to stand on business. You you don't want to own up. The accountability is not is not present. we We are avoiding or evading conversations that need to be had. Great.
00:40:23
Speaker
and You can't build on it. If you don't teach these things to, I'm going to go the next generation or the current generation, they won't know.
00:40:34
Speaker
Forget it. They won't know. But it's all true and it's all real stuff. All right. eight okay so if if you're going through college, I'm speaking to the college students who might hear this.
00:40:48
Speaker
and you don't learn about any stuff other than your tunnel, engineering, computer science, business, you're missing a great opportunity to expand your perspectives and your mind.
00:41:05
Speaker
I'm going to co-sign on that. I i agree. Um, i I loved college. i I loved college. My dad always used to say, and my my mom still stands on this too, that you go to college to grow up as a person.
00:41:21
Speaker
Um, and you go to go test your limits and see what you are capable of within parameters. I mean, every you, you have food, you have a a fence around you. At Smith, we had a fence around us. Like we, we had an ecosystem that was available for us to bounce into the walls to pretend like we were adults because we were. But to act like citizens of America, because we are, but to to be able to do these things but still have a security blanket around us, I loved college because it allowed us to practice as young people exercising our thoughts and our our ideas and our concepts, developing them,
00:42:05
Speaker
sharing them with other people, negotiating with people that we may or may not know or may or may not get along with. It was just its it was just a healthy and well-needed ecosystem for me specifically.
00:42:18
Speaker
i don't know if you felt the same, but i i agree. it's i I hate that when people are like, I'm just going to college because I'm just going to be a dentist. ah ah Oh, okay. But you know, you live with these people, right?
00:42:32
Speaker
Like you you live with them. You're going to grow up with these people. You are you need to be building while you're while you're walking along the way. Look, I could I could stand on that soapbox all day.
00:42:43
Speaker
um
Commitment to Student Development
00:42:45
Speaker
Dr. Jeter, what keeps you in the game when things aren't going smoothly? Well, when I was working, i retired right before the the COVID pandemic hit.
00:42:58
Speaker
But I realized that. my response My biggest responsibility was to my students.
00:43:10
Speaker
um And um that's how I ran afoul of administrators a couple of times. I mean, I i never worried about you know spending money wrong or stuff like that. It was just philosophical stuff.
00:43:24
Speaker
For instance, um one one place where I worked, the yeah The provost was, I was complaining about barriers to graduation.
00:43:35
Speaker
We're not getting the students out fast enough. And there was um there's an old commercial for Gallo wine and the tagline was, we will sell no wine before it's time.
00:43:51
Speaker
And so my thing was, we should graduate no students before they're ready. And so that was a kind of clash because I knew that um if there was a merit raise, I probably wouldn't get one because the pros had to sign off on it.
00:44:14
Speaker
So that's just the price you pay for believing whatever you believe in. And um over the course of the years, um I think the the students I worked with um have have proved that um I taught them something. i phrased it that, i don't know how much, but I taught them something.
00:44:37
Speaker
And so I have um students who um um have worked national positions in journalism Three people that I know of have gone on to earn doctorates.
00:44:51
Speaker
um And then others have worked in the media around the country. um One, i was a former president of the National Association of Black Journalists.
00:45:02
Speaker
um A couple work in radio um systems and journalism, um special reporters, which means beyond just covering fires and whatever, they have skills to do in-depth work, stuff like that.
00:45:21
Speaker
And um some, well, I can i can say this, um the former mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms, was in one of my classes at Florida A&M. She's currently running for governor in Georgia.
00:45:38
Speaker
So, you know, some went into politics. ok So they yeah ah use their journalism skills to pursue their interests. And, you know, um for those who stay in the profession, I'm i'm glad that they did it.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I wanted to do, to teach them what I call the old school way that I learned as a wire service reporter, ah no editorializing, no whatever. And then when you go to someplace like Fox, you can add all these adjectives back in, but leave them out for now because you never know where you where you might wind Oh, I forgot your initial question, but acknowledge as you and once I committed to teaching, i wanted to, like I said, do that. And for me,
00:46:30
Speaker
Whenever I could step away from administration, I took every chance because um they, you may have heard this phrase, but why the politics in the academy so tough?
00:46:42
Speaker
Because the stakes are so low. I mean, I've seen, um you know, almost lifelong animosity develop over who got a bigger office or got an office with a window or a parking space here or there or something like that. It's like, Meanwhile, the goal was to develop minds. mean, give give me a big office and you keep, give the window to somebody else or just give me a parking space somewhere and I'll walk.
00:47:10
Speaker
See, that's why we love you, Dr. Jeter. You actually cared about us. You actually cared about developing us. Well, I did and I ah do. And, you know, I mean,
00:47:21
Speaker
You're spending certainly your time and somebody's money. So it ought to be worth it to you. I would hope that ah it's just not ah an empty experience. I mean.
00:47:34
Speaker
If you pick a class, but if you can only come to my class on test day and turn in whatever written stuff I ask you, and you think you're going to get an A out of that class, it's probably not going happen.
00:47:49
Speaker
You need to be there. Not Jeter's class. For the discussions.
00:47:55
Speaker
Not Jeter's class. that Don't even try that. I mean, you could do it that way and you probably get a C, might likely a D or an F, but maybe a C. Yeah, that sounds more accurate. You know, don't don't have your mama calling me at the end of the semester.
00:48:12
Speaker
She's a good girl. He's a good boy. you give her a no? You can't talk to him anyway. No. You can't talk to him anyway.
00:48:22
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. i I'm not sure I miss teaching. But after speaking to you, it's kind of just like, dang, I do kind of miss it. I like part of me misses it after speaking to you for the same reasons you enjoy.
00:48:38
Speaker
but it's just the the politics would keep me at bay. the the The politics would keep me away. um which is why I've started things like this podcast so that I can still have valuable conversations and I can still ask thought-provoking questions and plant seeds of greatness, of course, without the the politics of higher ed from time to time. But I do miss it. I miss the classroom.
00:49:06
Speaker
adieu um I was too young to be teaching. that's The politics are... or just the reality of teaching. And even these days, it's so it's so much more fierce because, well, once again, you don't know who's going to be offended and ah You're going to have to explain yourself or if some state legislator is going to make you the object of his ire or some big donor. I mean, you know how universities are always looking for external funds.
00:49:43
Speaker
And so if some deep pockets person comes along and we want to change X, Y or Z, well, the administrators are likely going to roll over for that cash. And then you're going to have a dilemma in the in the classroom.
00:49:58
Speaker
and Like I said, if I were doing it today, I'd probably be in somebody's office once a month. I think you have perfect time. That's the beauty of tenure.
00:50:09
Speaker
If they want to fire you, it takes them a long time. And if you're any you can find another job somewhere. True statement. I love that. I love that.
00:50:22
Speaker
all right. So as I start to wrap up my questions, um, what is one and this is kind of lessons for others, something, a pay it forward type of moment.
Time Management in Academia
00:50:33
Speaker
What is one mind shift, mindset shift or practice that has helped you to succeed?
00:50:40
Speaker
Well, time management, um, you have to, uh, know that there are only so many hours in a day or a week and, uh, you need to, to, to do that. Um,
00:50:52
Speaker
And even and if particularly if you have family, um it um those are those are valid demands on everybody's behalf. And so time management.
00:51:04
Speaker
And so for me, my time management skill was to take a leave or a sabbatical where I didn't have as many distractions and I could just work on you know, who to have what I was having, a piece of research, a book, um a book chapter, and um know that i only had so so much so much time to do it, a summer, a month, um a semester, two semesters.
00:51:35
Speaker
And then at the end, because I promised somebody this product I had to produce. And so um that's the deal. You need a deliverable with your time management.
00:51:48
Speaker
I respect that and I agree. um But I also feel as though I've become the type of person where it's like, yeah, I can get that done. Yeah, I can get that done. No time, no time. But I love the fact that you strategically utilize your sabbaticals or you strategically use your your leave time to help build your your your personal interest or your career grounding interest that that is a major key that I don't think people really are playing chess appropriately, even if they do decide to enter into administration or into um higher ed across the board. But I think that's just a smart key ski, a smart key, like learn the rules so that you can use it for your, your benefit.
00:52:35
Speaker
If they're going make so some money off of you. Well, no, and I'll confess, I mean, I wanted it because I was in the academy. I wanted to earn you know promotion. I wanted to earn tenure.
00:52:47
Speaker
And so that was, if I wanted to do that, I knew that I would hope that my work stood on its merit rather than, oh I'm friends with Zina. She's going to look out for me when they start voting.
00:53:00
Speaker
I didn't want to put myself in that position. That's fair. i I respect that. All right. this is I have two more questions. So how has your thinking evolved as you've advanced?
Embracing Diverse Perspectives
00:53:13
Speaker
I think I'm more open to, I'm less dogmatic. I'm open to um other people's ideas, going back to this being a situation ethicist stuff.
00:53:25
Speaker
ah Like a lot of people, um i grew up in um in in churches and, um you know, they're they're Baptist, Southern Baptist, very dogmatic, can't do this, can't do that, can't do, And so now I go, well, you know, maybe you can do that or it's not that bad. So, OK, I that there are different people in the world who see it differently and do it differently. And I'm not going to rail on them and say, oh, you're you're a bad person.
00:54:01
Speaker
I live and let live. Try to. is Is that something you you acquired before like your PhD or after teaching? No, that happened at Smith. The first Sunday I woke up and didn't go to church and didn't get hit by a lightning bolt. I said, well, maybe it's it's not the way I thought.
00:54:28
Speaker
Okay. Okay. That's, that is fair. Again, it goes back to, i think that college offers you the opportunity to test your, your boundaries and your limits. It allows you to reset those so that within a safe environment, so that you can really recognize what your own personal boundaries are in comparison to um, the status quo or what everyone else is telling you is good.
00:54:56
Speaker
as Dr. J would say. Okay. This is my last question. for Well, before that, have, have I not asked you anything that you wanted to just put on the docket on this, on this podcast? Is there anything that I haven't asked you that you would like to address or say?
00:55:13
Speaker
no I think we've covered a range of stuff about i you and you and I, over the years. um And I think, well, I mentioned this to you when I saw you a couple of um weeks ago, but I remember when you were teaching at Winston-Salem when I was there, and one day the students who were taking their class and say, we can close our eyes and that's Jeter, Jeter, Jeter.
00:55:46
Speaker
I did you some justice, sir. I did you some justice. Look, look, we're playing C's even further now. Okay. His teamwork makes the dream work around here.
00:55:58
Speaker
No, i appreciate you I appreciate you sharing that with me because it was it was a short semester, but that was the first time that i that my department allowed me to create, to use my creativity, to use my background and my experiences, and then actually pour into a brand new curriculum because that class had never been taught even in my department. And I know the comms department didn't have a PR class. so that was And i don't even like PR, Dr. Jeter.
00:56:28
Speaker
can't stand it but that's my life my life is because maybe that's why don't like it but you but you came to dislike it right you didn't go yeah into it correct disliking it and so the realities of the profession or whatever cause you to adjust your thinking look in true Jeter style right all right last question sir what is one thing public facing that people don't know about you.
Personal Vice: Gambling
00:56:59
Speaker
What is one thing that people, the one public facing thing that people don't know? I'm down to one vice, gambling. Roulette, craps, and sports betting. No slots at all, no blackjack.
00:57:18
Speaker
game data Games that are pure chance. I like roulette. Roulette's a fun game. Okay, so sports betting, roulette. And what was the other one? Craps. Dice.
00:57:29
Speaker
And craps. Of course. Okay, Mr. South Carolina. alla most people are Most people are surprised when they find out about me. I would not have put you...
00:57:41
Speaker
initially in the gambling ring, but you s saying that I can sit here and be like, you know what? in in a In a mind that is constantly thinking and a mind that is constantly processing the messages that are going around you, it makes sense why there would be a solace in craps or a solace in roulette because that that is, that it like you said, is that's pure chance.
00:58:04
Speaker
pure chance like I can't control that. There's absolutely no mathematical equation that I can apply to that to make it work. So let's go. That's right. Let's see what fate has in store for us since the next hour
00:58:20
Speaker
I love it. Okay. Well, this has been an amazing conversation. Like I said, it was way overdue. I think I've been telling you that I wanted to talk to you for maybe 10 years now, and I've finally got it together. So I am grateful for your your time, for your energy. i am grateful to our our listeners for for... for taking the time to to share this space and absorb the knowledge that you just shared with us. um I'm just grateful. Thank you so much for participating today. Well, you're welcome. And I hope they enjoyed our conversation.
00:58:55
Speaker
Of course. I mean, they they they have no choice. No, I'm joking. Okay. So peace, love, light. Thank you so much, you beautiful people. And I hope you have a fabulous day.
00:59:07
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this episode of The Greatness Router. If you found some value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and definitely share. It helps more people connect to the journey of greatness.
00:59:20
Speaker
Until next time, keep moving with purpose.