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Ep. 0022 | What You Say Matters
29 Plays4 days ago
What if the greatest leadership lesson isn't found in a title…but in the lives you've helped transform?
In this episode of The GR8TNESS Router, Zena C. welcomes one of the people most responsible for shaping her academic and professional journey: Dr. Kandace L. Harris. An educator, media scholar, administrator, mentor, and advocate, Dr. Harris has spent her career helping students recognize the greatness already within them while creating pathways for them to thrive.
Their conversation explores the transformative power of HBCUs, the importance of representation in education, and why teaching is far more than delivering information…it’s about cultivating lives. Dr. Harris reflects on her upbringing in Oakland, her Howard University experience, the lessons she learned as a young professor at Johnson C. Smith University, and the moment she realized that every word spoken to a student carries lasting weight.
The discussion also dives into purpose, career pivots, lifelong learning, faith, accountability, and the importance of extending grace to yourself while pursuing excellence. Whether you're an educator, entrepreneur, student, or leader, this episode is a reminder that influence isn't measured by titles…it’s measured by the people who become greater because you showed up.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Greatness Router and Dr. Candice Harris
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Greatness Router, where we connect purpose to process one conversation at a time.
00:00:23
Speaker
Great day, beautiful people. And welcome to another episode of The Greatness Router. Today, i have the pleasure of introducing my mentor, my big sister, my homie from another mom, Dr. Candice Harris. I'm so excited for you today. And I'm so excited to have you. How are you today?
00:00:45
Speaker
am amazing. And I'm sitting here like beaming I'm like, oh my God, this is amazing. This is something. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. Yes. You are beaming. You're glowing. it's not just the bronzer, y'all. Like, she is really, she has this Cali glow going on. Like, I'm home. I'm in my element. I'm in 92 degrees outside. But, yeah.
00:01:08
Speaker
That's great, but it looks good on you. Wear it well, as you always have, as you always have. Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. I, of course, I have a bio that I need to get into um just to introduce our our following to who I am on a call with, who are who I get to present to them. i am i am so honored, y'all. And y'all about to find out why. All right.
00:01:29
Speaker
So today's guest is
Dr. Harris's Professional Background
00:01:31
Speaker
Dr. Candace L. Harris, an educator, scholar, administrator, and advocate whose career has been dedicated to student success, leadership development, and expanding opportunities for others.
00:01:44
Speaker
Currently serving as Associate Dean of the Mike Kerb College of Arts, Media, and Communication at California State University, Northridge, Dr. Harris brings more than 17 years of experience in higher education, including leadership roles as at multiple, y'all heard that, multiple historically Black colleges and universities, a media studies scholar and triple alumna.
00:02:11
Speaker
Let me repeat that. A media studies scholar and triple alumna of Howard University, You know. Her work explores media representation and the advancement of women in underrepresented communities. She also serves as the 22nd president of the Howard University Alumni Association and is the eighth woman to hold the position. told y'all we were talking to somebody special here today.
00:02:41
Speaker
Continuing a legacy of service, engagement and institutional leadership.
Impact of Dr. Harris on the Host
00:02:45
Speaker
Personally, however, Dr. Harris has been much more than an educator in my life. From our earliest interactions in the classroom at Johnson C. Smith University, to encouraging my curiosity as a scholar, to helping me navigate my time at Howard University and life beyond campus. She has consistently shown up as a mentor, advocate, and source of encouragement. Her ability to challenge, support, and inspire has impacted countless students, and I'm grateful to be one of them. I'm excited to have her at the table today because her journey reflects the power of education, mentorship, and leadership rooted in service. Please, please, please join me in welcoming Dr. Candice L. Harris. I'm so grateful for you. oh
00:03:32
Speaker
I'm so proud of you. well i appreciate you. But i just need you to understand. I would not be like this wouldn't even be remotely possible if you hadn't been and you aren't the influence and mentor that you are for me. So I really I really just want to say thank you because all the way we can take it all the way back to the first time I met you in debate class.
00:03:53
Speaker
I think that was the first class I took with you at Smith. You were our debate teacher. i was just like, who is this lady? i was like, she fly though, but who is this lady? And you, you were just, you were relentless and so positive and so about us as students being the best versions of ourselves that I'm just so excited.
00:04:15
Speaker
grateful that we were able to build the rapport that we have built. And I'm excited to dive into the story of your journey of how you have gotten to where you are today. So thank you
Experiences at Historically Black Colleges
00:04:27
Speaker
for being awesome.
00:04:28
Speaker
Oh, No, you came in awesome. I i mean, very fond memories of Johnson C. Smith. um But just, you know, the thing about, and I know we'll get more into it, but the thing about just working at HBCUs, the students, i mean, you all come in Just, you know, sometimes we talk about this whole notion of like, oh, you know, turning a rock into a diamond, but you came in a diamond.
00:04:53
Speaker
Like there wasn't like much and little, just a little, little on you and just barely shined you up. But I mean, so many of you all come in just ready and beaming and with the tools and you were just one of those students and I just got to see you flourish. And I'm just, I'm happy that I was able to be a part of that story, you know, your journey. So Well, appreciate thank you.
00:05:16
Speaker
oh my gosh. this Y'all, this is totally going to oh, you know, you know, you type situation just because that's how how amazing a person she is. But I do have a few icebreakers um so that my audience can get to know how amazing you are. So my first one is if you could have a candid, unfiltered conversation with any historical figure, who would it be and why Who are we talking to?
00:05:43
Speaker
Who are you grabbing tea with? Historical. Yes.
Inspirational Figures: Debbie Allen and Ida B. Wells
00:05:48
Speaker
Historical. They're alive. They can be alive okay Extract one. Are you want someone... I mean, that's something and are they are they gone? Gone? Are they like still living legends? Look, you you this is your interview. This is your shine time. So who do you want to choose? the first person that pops in my head is a living legend. And I've actually met her. But I haven't had a chance to really sit down and talk to her. And that would be Debbie Allen.
00:06:14
Speaker
That's my idol. That's the... it's When I was younger, i wanted to be a dancer. Yes. um So that was like the thing. And so I, you know, obviously studied her and found out that's the reason why I went to Howard University. I was about to ask. Yeah. So, um you know, watching her on TV, Fame and so on and so forth. And um then going on to, um you know, a different world and all these other things. um it I would want to have just a real deep conversation with her and just kind of and she's lovely in person but of course it's like a quick hi-bye and not really getting to delve into that that's who I would probably like right now living today if it was a historical someone who is no longer with us oh gosh many people oh my lord I think
00:07:03
Speaker
oh my my my lord um i the I want to say like maybe someone like Ida B. Wells, you know, just from like the journalism ok piece of it to kind of, you know. Okay.
00:07:19
Speaker
Come through cerebral. Like, yeah, just something, you know, kind of just wanted to know about what was going on in her head or during that time. Or even like a Zora Neale Hurston.
00:07:32
Speaker
and i say women but but just You know, something like that. You know who else said Zora Neale Hurston about fell out my chair? Lori. lourie
00:07:43
Speaker
Lori Kemp. She sure did. Lori made me earn my paycheck. I love her though. She is doing so, another one so proud of her. Lori Tatiana. j Yes. I had to tell her. I was like, look, I don't know that person, but I know Lori Kemp. She was like, girl, just call me Lori. Let's just keep it. No, I love her but she She, again, she and she did really well. She was a great writer. I remember that in school. And and it ah just again,
00:08:11
Speaker
But yeah, ah Zora Neale Hurston, um probably a lot of authors. I would want to just, you know, again, about the just ah the piece of imagination mixed in with a little bit of you know, realness of what's going on in the world and kind of just pulling it all together. Oh, and one last person that cannot believe I did not say.
00:08:30
Speaker
Okay. Audre Lorde. That would be my other... My other big one. Okay. I would love to sit down. um I fell in love with her work while I was at Howard. I had an awesome professor, Dr. Thompson. I was an English minor. That was torture. was torturerturing but about to say, that sounds rough. That was hard.
00:08:51
Speaker
was like, this is harder than I thought it was going to be. um But she um really took us into the canonical works, but more so like the tier work.
00:09:03
Speaker
third tier canonical works. And um that's where I learned about Audre Lorde. You know, I was not a Faulkner. I know people love Faulkner, but I was not a Faulkner person. um And that's who Toni Morrison's stuff is more like. But I fell in love with Audre Lorde's Zami, that book. And it just really like, wow. Okay. I think if I could have a conversation with her.
00:09:28
Speaker
could probably do more. The nerd in me is like, There's nothing with that. There's nothing wrong with that. I knew as soon as I asked, it was going open a floodgate. But okay. I feel like you gave us three. Debbie Allen. You gave us Zora Neale Hurston. And now Audre Lorde. Oh, and i give you Ida B. Wells. like And Ida B. Wells. See? Four. See? And then you just dripped them all out. They came seamlessly. Okay. Dope.
00:09:52
Speaker
I love it I love it I love it. So... The next one, i want now I want to just ask you about books, but I'm ah i'm not going to do that. I want to know one thing I didn't tell people, which I just feel like it's common knowledge. Anyway, you are a Cali girl. You're from the West Coast. So after growing up in Oakland, right, you then turn around and came to the East Coast and spent several years over here. What did you miss most about the West Coast?
00:10:18
Speaker
Ooh, several years, honey. 25. Yes. What did that? I mean, I think... Oakland is a very interesting city.
Influence of Oakland and D.C. on Dr. Harris
00:10:29
Speaker
It's extremely diverse, um but it is grounded in, you know, lot of people say, oh, you know it's a black city, but it is it is grounded in blackness and community and, you know, the Black Panther Party, you know, Head Start, um you know, just a lot of just in terms of activism and advocacy, um like, you know, the the the park around the corner from my house um even though it was called defirmary um in in honor of the Black Panthers. They called it Bobby Hutton you know Park, which was that the the young man who got you know murdered.
00:11:07
Speaker
during the Black Panther. So that's the park I played in, you know, every day. And then across the street was Ralph J. Bunch Library, you know, so I had all these things. And then I went to Martin Luther King's, you know, elementary school. Everything like around me was just this, you know, um just ah center of ah around Blackness and yeah know my parents and stuff. So I think Oakland was just one of those cities where, I mean, you still had diversity around you because you got, you know you got Berkeley and has a very, um,
00:11:39
Speaker
you know centered Latinx or Chicano you know ah story and vibe, La Rasa and all that. So you you get you kind of get this you know to get the hippies and all this stuff kind of going on and going on. and um but But there's this real centeredness of Blackness um that you that you feel. even in Even in a gentrified state, it's like you could still go to Oakland and be like, okay, I know.
00:12:03
Speaker
When I'm in Oakland, it's going to be Black. going to see some Black people. love you. I think for me growing up in that environment, um all my teachers were black pretty much until I want to say high school. Well, wow maybe junior high school. up um i Actually, at junior high school was when I got my first real like white teacher. And he actually his he was dope. He's probably my favorite teacher. probably who I tried to base some of my teaching off of. but um His name was Mr. Weinberg. Shout out. Shout out to Mr. Weinberg. Eight grade history. Why did I know you were going to say history, though? I was like, I wonder if it was her history teacher. One of my favorite teachers was the history teacher, too. No, he was dope. But I didn't really get to interact with real white
00:12:51
Speaker
teachers well into, you know, I'm 12, you know? So that's, a good to just be surrounded in that um for such a long time, I think that was, um you know, amazing. And then just,
00:13:04
Speaker
I grew up in West Oakland and West Oakland has its you know its own kind of vibe and history. We're by the Naval Yards. um you know we We have low income you know housing, but you also have these large Victorian homes and this whole culture. um you know We're close to Jacquehlander Square. um So you just have, a and downtown. So you just got like this just wonderful, just,
00:13:29
Speaker
You know, just core of like greatness um around you. But I'm definitely a city girl. um But city cal California girl and going over to D.C., which was Chocolate City at the time. Right. Was like.
00:13:48
Speaker
Apple and oranges. I mean, I was in culture shock. Oh yeah. Deep, deep culture shock when I moved to DC because it was black, black. Like I thought Oakland was black until I went to DC.
00:13:59
Speaker
Now, now not so much, but when I was there, it felt like 90% black. I'm sure it wasn't that high, but it felt that way. Like it was chocolate city. Everything was black.
00:14:11
Speaker
I love that. I love, I would love to be like, i I need to go dive into like the yearbooks of Howard in the, in the nineties. You know i'm saying? Like I need to go dive into those and actually look to see. I know I've done it at Smith, but I feel like I need to go and and really review and learn that, that degree of, of h you You know what mean? That was, that was a very interesting time because, know,
00:14:40
Speaker
It's so funny because I feel like I left one murder capital to go to the other murder capital. Stop it. Oh my God, Pam. What we're not going to do. but But no, at the time I lived in D.C., it was considered, you know, in terms of just per capita, um the murder capital. and But it had this richness and liveliness. And yeah, it was gritty, but I was from Oakland.
00:15:01
Speaker
right So to me, I'm like, okay, one city beats another city. right um But Howard just... And I've had this conversation with um some of my classmates.
00:15:14
Speaker
It was like all the kids just from all over the globe. You take the the top of the top of the top of the top and you just drop them all in one place. right And so it was intense. And, you know, you might've been the B's knees at your high school, you know what mean? But then you get in the classroom and it's like, oh, well, he was the B's knees. She was the B's knees. Like everybody was like, right you know, top of the top. So there was no this sense of like, no, it was like we all was in here. And then, you know, these young people and they were, we were like, not arguing, but we would have like debate.
00:15:52
Speaker
Like something I do miss in the classroom. You don't see as much nowadays because people don't want hurt people's feelings, but- When I was in school, people would be like, yeah, don't agree with that. Or she's wrong. And you'd be like, oh God. And the professor would make you stand on it. And so the classroom, we would have these lively conversations. You couldn't come in the classroom and be like, you couldn't slide down in your seat. You had to have read the chapter.
00:16:19
Speaker
had your notes and be ready to have robust, you know, you know the drill, have real robust conversation. But, you know, we've kind of gotten away from that a little bit. But at that time in the 90s, and you'll talk to people all the time and they're like, even the young students at Howard now, they're like, what it like going to school in the 90s? Because the 90s has like this mist over it, you know, where everybody's like, oh. But it was very interesting time. You're coming out of a different world. You're coming out of, you know, really the crack app epidemic. yeah You know, what, Marion Barry? Stop it. That's true, though At that time, you know, Marion scandal, and then, you know, these other mayors, you know, fighting for, you know, rights to the to the city, and then he got reelected while I was there. It was like, he was, you know, scandal, and then reelected, and um it was just so much going on, and, you know, Biggie, and
00:17:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I was there. Everybody says they were there, but I really was there. But, you know, all that kind of stuff. Like, I was telling somebody my comedy show, Jamie Foxx was the, he was the headliner. You know, Adele Gibbons was the headliner. It's like, we watched the movie Friday in Crampton Auditorium as like- Like as a preview. The to watch. It was the free movie. And, you know, we had to pull up in there. And, I mean, just, and then just seeing all these young people. I just remember being fascinated by meeting somebody from like Tennessee. was like, Nashville, Tennessee. am so tickled. Where are you from? You know, it's beautiful.
00:17:57
Speaker
Now I do want to. And and I promise y'all I have questions, but we're we're also catching up because I have not seen this beautiful lady in quite some time. So we're catching up at the same time in live form with all the amazing ears. But I also feel as though while I was not at Howard in the 90s, I was there in the 10s.
00:18:17
Speaker
I guess I guess I I was at Howard at the 10s. And yes, I will definitely co-sign that Howard created a space where you are in class with like-minded people.
00:18:28
Speaker
You are in class with people who are so who know that they're supposed to be in the building. They're not trying to... And granted, I went to Howard for grad school. So this is after I had already done my... um And you know this clearly, Candy, because you helped me get there. But you know the the people may not have this this perspective perspective of me.
00:18:47
Speaker
But I was in there with with other grad students. So yes, I i can i can empathize and i can I can synergize with you on being at Howard and being in a space where it's like, oh my gosh, everybody belongs here. But I say all that to say is that even what you're describing really reflects at least my HBCU experience.
00:19:10
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, granted, again, I was not in school in the 90s and the 90s were amazing. I grew up watching a different world and be like, oh, I'm definitely going to HBCU. Like, that's what I'm about to do.
00:19:21
Speaker
um But even being at Smith for undergrad really gave me the the insight of of what you're you're talking about, like a snippet of it. Because once again, I i wasn't a part of the the the demystifying. Yeah.
00:19:37
Speaker
of of that life. But it's so great to hear like your your recollection of your experience at it in school at Howard is really like intriguing. Like I love you want a book.
00:19:52
Speaker
I mean, you know, can't tell everything, but it was. have some No, no, seriously. No, it was, it was a beautiful, like I said, it was a beautiful experience, um you know, and I went there, you know, obviously I went there for grad school as well, but Grad school is different, but it still had a richness to it because of the professors that we had. And, you know, it just, again, the HBCU experience, and I've had the pleasure of being able to work at many, yeah um you know, but it's just something about being in a place where you don't have to think about
00:20:29
Speaker
race in the context of yourself and your being and who you are in the moment. You literally are just, you know, Xena.
00:20:40
Speaker
Yes. Yes. And whatever your, everything else, your idiosyncrasies or whatever else is coming out, you can worry about that. But when you are in some of these other spaces where it's like, oh, when I speak,
00:20:53
Speaker
I'm seeking for the anti-race. It's like, no, I'm just getting to speak for my perspective and what I think. yes And that's it or you know And so maybe some other things can, you know we talk about intersectionality, maybe some other things rose up being you know female or being queer or i being regional type of things, or I'm from the South versus I'm from... you know the east or, you know, the northeast or what so on and so forth. But all these other things that make us unique and different are, you get to kind of focus on versus like, okay, did this guy just say something that was like extremely racist and now I have to like, you know, speak up or, oh, right I guess got to speak for all the people of color right now. Cause I just, you know, heard something that was, you know, inappropriate or whatever the case might be. And so for that, I think,
00:21:42
Speaker
I was grateful, but also just the halls.
Meeting Influential Figures at Howard University
00:21:46
Speaker
um you know Howard was just, i mean like I said, I remember one day I was walking down hall and was like, Bill Duke was like right there. Ali Davis was in the hallway one day. Susan DePass was in the hallway. um I remember another time i was walking and looked up, it was Muhammad Ali. I was looking at his wife first and I was like, why do I know that lady? I was like, I don't remember. And then as soon as my eyes cut, my eyes got so big and he was looking like, yeah, me. And I'm like, yes, you. you know But um you know Nelson Mandela was freed while I was at Howard and he came. um I think that was my sophomore year or so. But, you know, so it's like um all these different people just get to see
00:22:28
Speaker
you know, walking the the campus, um just walking, like just- Just being. Just being. No security. This is like, we can't do that now, but I was like, okay. um So just seeing that. And then like, I remember Al Freeman, um he was one of the professors in the fine arts department and he was in the Malcolm X movie. And, um he's also on Sesame street, which was probably more, you know, maybe more exciting anyway. okay We were there for a summer and we got to eat in the faculty lounge and he was right there.
00:23:00
Speaker
And I was like, oh my God. And I just got to sit and listen to him talk. And I was like, this is absolutely, you know, amazing. um but I got to be taught by, you know, and meet other people, at Howard, you know, during that time, whether it was, they were doing, um, you know, short lectures, you know, as professors and stuff like that. And so you got to interact with different journalists. And I mean, it was just an amazing, um it was just an amazing time and to get to see that. And then not even my classmates, you know, um to know that I was there at the same time as, you know, Chadwick Boseman and, um you know, got it it's Miss Taraji, but, you know, um I think Marlon was there at the same time that I was there. So I think was there.
00:23:47
Speaker
All these different people, they'd be oh, so-and-so's in a movie now. and It's like, oh, she was just, Ananda Lewis worked in the financial aid office. AJ was there. um at the same time. So it's like these people that have become, you know, to some extent, modern day iconic, um you know, when we're watching, you know, whether we're BET or whatever, because BET was popping. Right.
00:24:08
Speaker
Especially that time. You could an internship at BET, you were doing some things. um But to be there at that time um with Tracy Toms, I could just keep going. Like all these different people who were just there and Ta-Nehisi Coates, like,
00:24:23
Speaker
All these different. And then my actual classmates and people that I'm friends with now who may not be quote unquote household names, but they are dope, you know, individuals, whether they're historians or doctors or, you know, pharmacists or lawyers or whatever, what have you, they were there.
00:24:42
Speaker
You know, at that at that time. And so, you know, to see me being in journalism, to see a lot of my friends on the air, you know, like, oh, she's a journalist. You know, she's on broadcast can you can broadcast journalism and she's on, you know, TV or to see like one of my classmates. I remember at the time he wrote like this prolific book that, you know, everybody was like, ah you know, so it's just.
00:25:03
Speaker
It's just amazing to see that. sure you experienced that too. and I know you were in a dope class of um young people that I got to interact with at Johnson C. Smith. and yeah Y'all were like my babies. um absolutely your first Were we your first like teaching you out of out of Howard? Yeah. So when I got out that's my first job, Johnson C. Smith was my first job. I'm newly minted. PhD. had taught classes before because I was teaching at Howard and had taught at Bowie State.
00:25:35
Speaker
But that was my first like you know real paycheck, salary. Wow. You did a great job. All the things. And I came in there like... Yeah, you did. They're going to respect me. Yeah, you did. don't care if I look like I'm their age. They're going to respect me.
00:25:51
Speaker
but yeah But on the sidebar, well, i will say this, Howard prepared me because Howard, probably one of the few, if maybe the only, we had this program called Preparing Future Faculty. And that's something that they don't do. I can say this now as an associate dean, as someone who's worked in academia for a long time.
00:26:10
Speaker
Just because you have PhD does not mean you can teach. yeah And you people just throw people in rooms. It's like... dont No, no. And teaching is a teaching is a skill. Yes. You know, it's not. You never want to do it. the people Those who can't teach or some stupid line, they'd like to say, oh, this you can't do anything. Just throw them in a room with young minds.
00:26:32
Speaker
Who came up with that? Who decided that that's the best thing? Somebody who's never taught before. don't got nothing else to do. Just go teach. Go substitute teach. Go teach in a college. um But um teaching is hard. And um when you're trying to, it is like edutainment. You're trying to keep people's attention. You're trying to impart something on them. to some if if If it's for me personally, I'm trying to help.
00:26:56
Speaker
build and mold and give them some more foundation, you know, if you will, or see them leave out better than they came when they came into my classroom. So all of those things are coming, but Howard really helped prepare me because we had a class that we used to take called preparing future faculty, our program, and they prepared us. And so I think once I got to, and I got to, I was a teaching associate at Howard, so I got to teach that while I was there. So that's another thing you get to, you know,
00:27:25
Speaker
get your chops ready. And then coming into John C.C. Smith, it's like, i was already I was ready for y'all. But at that time, you know the dis the age distance was not that great. yeah And so I had to make sure that, you know, students weren't going to try me. So I had to, you know, put my girl- And I'm sure you still got to try But, you know- A big girl trousers on and, you know, try to be like, i'm oh, you know, I'm so much older than y'all. ah But you know it was a good time. you know What's funny is that I got, like-
00:27:57
Speaker
firsthand experience watching that. So when I actually came out of Howard and started teaching at Winston, I was able to use your example that you had set to help pull me through those first couple of years of, of teaching for me. So again, thank you. I don't know if you knew that you, you had helped, uh, helped me cultivate that degree of who I am. But that was definitely super helpful because I was just like, look, she was in there looking like one of us and teaching. And now here I am coming out of school and I am about to be looking like one of them teaching. So I just want to say thank you for for just setting the standard. um Not even just for me. I'm pretty sure you've done it for all everyone you've ever had the pleasure um or not pleasure, or pleasure of teaching. Yeah. You know what mean? but you definitely like set the bar so that we know where where a baseline could be. You what mean? So all we could do was grow from there. So I'm a give gonna give thanks to that. but I appreciate that. Well, I think it was important
Teaching Philosophy and Impact on Students
00:28:58
Speaker
because. you know Especially in academia, um you know sometimes people think that it's not a space for us, right? and um
00:29:07
Speaker
Or it looks a certain way, right? Because when I was in school, you know well it was two things. Either they just were like these older, like fly. remember this one lady, I think her name was Dr. Stubbs. She was my one of my English professors, and she wore like a fur coat.
00:29:21
Speaker
I was just like, fur coat. She looked like something from the Harlem Renaissance, you know, like she was older woman, but she's wearing like a fur coat to class. And I was just like, okay, I'll see you, you know, or you go to this other, you know, it's like, you know, like, like something you see, like head of the class or something, you know, it's like jeans and, you know, lumberjack, you know, shirt or, you know, or just dressed down business, very, very business casual and not really seeing that. But I had a professor, Dr. Teresa Red, shout out to her. an English professor I had. And baby, she came up in there with a leather skirt on and red fingernails. And I said, oh, so you can look like that.
00:30:09
Speaker
And that was it that's why representation matters. It does. Because people have to see, young people have to see people that look like them. And I wasn't seeing people that look like me in the academy. you know A lot of times they were much older.
00:30:23
Speaker
or like I said, they were male or if they were a female or a woman, they we you know didn't I couldn't connect. It was like grandma or you know some older woman. But to see her, she was young and fresh you know spicy and But she was dope. like She knew her stuff. you know she yeah I was in there doing them tree diagrams and English grammar. And and I just thought, and I just remember when I saw her,
00:30:52
Speaker
That's when I was like, and they introduced me to a program that for post-baccalaureate work. And that's when I decided I could be a professor. It was in her class that I decided that I could go into the profession as a professor. But but prior to that, if I had never saw that woman, actually, I'm supposed to be an essence right now. I'm supposed to be working. I'm supposed to be in New York. I'm supposed to be the editor-in-chief of a magazine.
00:31:16
Speaker
no and you're supposed to be doing what you're supposed to be doing. Which brings me to my first question. And I like to call this the router moment, right? So the purpose behind your work. That's what we're about to talk about. The purpose behind your work, which is the beautiful segue because you literally just pinpointed um a degree of what I'm about to ask you. um If you had to pinpoint the moment you knew what you're doing right now was your calling, what would it be?
00:31:44
Speaker
I had to pinpoint a moment. ahha That what you're doing right now.
00:31:54
Speaker
I would probably say I got two. Okay. I feel like. The first and foremost, it has to be the Ronald E. McNair program at Howard University, first cohort. um That is the post-baccalaureate program that I talked about that they introduced. All I heard was...
00:32:09
Speaker
grad school and we pay for you, you get as a stipend and we pay for you to stay in DC for the summer. That's all I had to hear. and I was like, oh, but um going in there and getting it. And I, you know, I didn't know if I was going to get accepted cause you, it was very rigorous. You had to interview, you had to interview with like the Dean of the graduate school and all these other professors. And you had to talk about what you were interested in, what you were going to teach. And I thought I was going to get a PhD in English, ironically. Because I was an English minor.
00:32:41
Speaker
Okay. I was an English minor. So at the time in my mind, i was like, oh I'll be an English minor. I'll go into, you know, I'll be going to literature and I'll do that. because i And I still, I love writing, feature writing, anything that have to do with writing, I love.
00:32:56
Speaker
So i was like, okay, that's what I'm going to But anyway, go in that room, I get selected and go in that room and it's like all these like this young you know black students. And i always tell this story. But I just remember, um and now ah my two best friends to this day, um we were in that room. And one was a chemistry major and one was a biology major. Oh, wow. And, of course, me over here, soft sciences. Soft sciences. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong. Nothing wrong with soft sciences. It's still a science. um No, but I um was in there and they, you know, two of these two girls. And I was like, okay, they look kind of cool. So i'm sat next to them because everybody else, you know, i'm looking. I'm like, man
00:33:40
Speaker
look nerdy up in here. Everybody up here a nerd." but Then I said, well, shoot, if I'm in here with them- You a nerd too. What does that make me? A nerd. Cooler.
00:33:51
Speaker
um but All that to be said, being around those young, bright people and they gave us these projects and all this stuff, and now 20, 30 years later,
00:34:06
Speaker
you know, seeing what everyone has become, you know, my best friend is ah is a, you know, MD, my other best friend is everything. She does everything in the under the sun, but, you know, she went on to, you know, work for Colgate, Palmolive and patents and, you know, all the, all these other things. And so, you know, now she owns her own like conglomerate basically. nice So, you know, doing international business. So it's just to,
00:34:32
Speaker
see these people. And then some of them, you know, one of them works at Howard right now, who is like the director, um shout out to Ben, Dr. Ben Talton. He's the director the Moreland Spengarn, you know, ah center, which is actually where I did my research when I was in undergrad. And when I got my PhD, I was doing research in there. I could go there because I used to to library of, um,
00:34:55
Speaker
Congress. But then I found out that all the stuff i was getting at the Library of Congress, I could get it in Moreland Spengard. I said, well, why am I leaving? um But, you know, which is the largest um repository of all things Black.
00:35:08
Speaker
like That's right there on Howard's campus. Anything you want to know about Black people, it's right there. It's right there in that Moreland Spengard Center. So art, culture, history, you know artifacts. um I think I was looking at something recently and they were talking about they had like something some kind of artifact from Frederick Douglass. I was like, oh wow. so you know But to be around these young Black people who were like, we were all, some of them were poets.
00:35:34
Speaker
I mean, like it was everywhere. you know they We all went on to grad school and and different postdocs and all this different stuff. And so I think later on, you know, when you look back and you get into these positions and you're enter and you're interacting with young black people or young people in general, but specifically for the purposes I'm interested in, young black people. and it's like, you could do anything because remember being 19.
00:36:01
Speaker
remember being 19 in that. i remember nineteen in that going to the NIH, going to Chicago, going to Wisconsin, going to you know ah Baltimore County and just going to all these different places and doing my presentations and studying um you know my project and all those things. I can remember that. And I remember looking at those professors like, you know and now I'm on the other side of it. And so I think that's like one real you know big turning point. um And then I think the other,
00:36:35
Speaker
was Johnson C. Smith was a very, i i think that's really where i oh got to really like, you know, roll up my sleeves, grit my teeth because it's a very peculiar, it's the first time I realized how much I cared about students. o I did my first big cry.
00:36:56
Speaker
Oh, man. My students wasn't doing that. like, what's wrong with you? Why don't you want to learn? yeah but it's like You realize like you care about these people. They care about you you know you all.
00:37:08
Speaker
I cared about y'all. you know That dad don't send your paper down there. But you know just trying to help y'all get that little 20 page. It seemed like so much back then. It was. It was a lot, y'all. It was a lot. That senior paper to get out of Smith was rough. I probably, to this day, that senior paper was taking students out. I was like, what is wrong with y'all? Why y'all can't write a paper? You know, but but knowing like, okay,
00:37:36
Speaker
Where are they? Meeting you where you are. You know, I made a lot of mistakes at John C. Smith. I'll be honest with you. I've probably never said that before, but I made mistakes. You know, when I first got there, you know, I was a keyboard warden, warden with students, you know, like, well, if you're going to say this, well, then I'm to say that, you know, and it's like, why am arguing with student?
00:37:57
Speaker
Yeah. You know, but now i don't do, I don't do any. I mean, I was. But I feel like it personal persons it's a It's a good lesson. Mm-hmm. You got to get out of it. But like I remember like keyboard worrying with students or, um you know, I remember one student, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I said something.
00:38:17
Speaker
And after the fact, you know, the student came up to me and was like, you know Dr. Harris, you know what you said, yeah know, I like, like that really hurt my feelings. And and then that's when I realized I was like, yo, the tongue.
00:38:29
Speaker
It's powerful. Yeah. And you have so much power. I think that's when I became an advocate. I realized very early in my first two, three years of teaching, like your tongue and what you say to young people can be so, you know, impactful, bad or good, you know? And so now, you know, 20 some odd years later, when I'm, you know, here where I work now at CSUN as ah an associate dean and I'm you know, doing these cases and working with students and trying to help them navigate situations. And, you know, even talking with faculty, I'm like, yo, like, what you say matters. You are an authoritative you authority authoritative figure in the classroom. And you just can't say what you want out your mouth. Even if you think it, you can't, you can think
00:39:18
Speaker
you know don't think what you think, but sometimes you just can't say that to a student. You can be the catalyst, right? you can be the the the You can help propel someone to success or you can take them down. yeah And I think a lot of professors and faculty members, either they enjoy having that kind of power and not using it for good, or they just don't recognize how...
00:39:46
Speaker
and how important it is. And, you know, once I realized that i was like, for the rest of my days, if I teach or whatever I do, I would never want a student to walk away from me and be like, man, Dr. Harris, man, she broke my spirit or she made me feel like I wasn't smart or made me feel like you know And I don't remember what I said. it was something so slight.
00:40:13
Speaker
like But you remember the effect, though. But you remember the effect, though. And i think I think even that lesson stretches beyond academia. Like, I think in life, like, the tongue is such a powerful a powerful source. Like, you we we collectively should really watch are our words and what we say to people because that that has a rippling effect. I'm just glad that you were able to... um not even backtrack, but to learn from it.
00:40:40
Speaker
You know what saying? To learn that you're, I mean, you were English major. let Let's start there. So you know words like the back of your hand. You know I mean So recognizing that words mean things and that people are going to absorb them in certain ways and and someone being being strong enough to give you the feedback, like, sorry, that that really hurt
Career Choices and Academia vs. Corporate
00:41:00
Speaker
my feelings. And you to be strong enough to be like, you know what?
00:41:03
Speaker
Let me reassess how i'm going to I'm going to provide this information moving forward. That's kudos to you for even recognizing the the growth of yourself. Yeah, because I mean, look, it ain't no teaching. It's something else. I mean, it's it's, you know, when you teach, and I taught second grade for a couple years. And, you know, when you teach- very well Second grade grade. like like Like seven year olds, eight year olds? Yeah, six to eight year Yes, in D.C. I taught second grade for two years. when Wow. yeah was in I was getting my master's, but I um i had, um what did I do? i was envy I had like a short period in between.
00:41:48
Speaker
Wow. where I was like, I needed to work. I needed to work. So I was doing that. And then I got accepted to the PhD program because I had like a little year, not even a year break, but I just had like a little weird space. Wow. But I was teaching. And because, you know, when you finish your thesis, so yeah, because I didn't comp out. I did thesis. And so I stretched that thesis out a little bit and I had human subjects. That's what it was. IRB was taking me a little bit longer because i had human subjects and they stretched it out.
00:42:19
Speaker
And so I had like six months. And so while I was doing my thesis, I was like, well, I gotta, to you know, do get some money. So yeah I started teaching second grade while i was finishing up my thesis. Wow. And baby...
00:42:34
Speaker
that was probably the hardest job I've ever had to this day. What I will say is little babies, you can't toss them to a side, you know, cause it's like, and they forget, like, it's like, oh, you really was on my nerves yesterday, day but they come in and they say, oh, i love you so much.
00:42:49
Speaker
It's like yesterday you didn't like me. Yesterday you hated me, but okay. You know, but when you get to college, there's this sense of, you know, i could fail you, which I didn't, but you know, it kills, it hurts me to fail students. So, But, you know, there's that power, right? Yeah. You're like, I told you what to do.
00:43:09
Speaker
It's in the syllabus. I gave it to you. reminded you. I sent the reminder email. There's only but so much I can do. There's only but so much I can do. You know, what you want me to Do the homework for you, you know? So, um so there's that kind of weird, you know, and then students are like, but can I? But it was late. Oh, but.
00:43:34
Speaker
please. anyway And it's like this exact negotiation, but but what I'm saying is it is, it is not easy teaching college. Yeah. I think people think it is because so you watch TV, like, like I said, what is it? um What is the name of that? Good, good. um What show are you talking about? Or, you know, my good you know and it class we watch stuff on TV, the way they make college just look like, you know, students are just so like,
00:44:03
Speaker
It's like, no, they're not. They don't even, they slide down their seat. They don't want you to talk. They want to be quiet. They like, just give me all your slides and, you know, leave me alone. it's It's not like that. not like that.
00:44:15
Speaker
that's That's fair. that's That's fair to say. that's That's fair. But I think you have to want to to to enjoy the process, the forging process of of forging students. And by forge, like I'm i'm making a sword type of forge is what i where I'm coming at great people. So let's talk about a pivot point for you.
00:44:37
Speaker
Was there ever a time when you almost chose a different path? Every day. every day um Yeah, you know, so while I was in the PhD program, I was working at Starbucks.
00:44:52
Speaker
A lot of people kind of know this, but I'm a coffee girl, but um so, you know, again, you you you have a scholarship, but you need money. So I had worked at Starbucks since, and i had worked at Starbucks for undergrad, left, came back and started working again. And um I was ah like a supervisor and then I was like an assistant manager. for ah a short time. and um But they kept saying, you know when you finish, you can work at Starbucks corporate.
00:45:24
Speaker
So I was like, okay, bet. No, not a problem. So um that was one job. So when I finished the PhD program, I actually got offered a job.
00:45:38
Speaker
to work at Starbucks corporate or not not after that PhD though. Keep going. I'm listening. I'm listening. I did know. And it was more money. It was more money than I was going to be making.
00:45:50
Speaker
And I was like, you know what? I went to school all this time. Yes. This PhD, I'm going to take my happy butt to Charlotte. and and do and do what I'm supposed to do. What I've been training to do. What I've been trained to do, but I understand it. I understand how sometimes all lure of like money or other things um can come up since I've been in the profession. i mean, obviously I have other interests.
00:46:18
Speaker
um And I think right now is a ah pivotal point for me. Not so much like I'm on the market or anything like that, but there is this notion of like, what's next for me? Like, yeah what what do I want to do noif facts next? Because I'm in like this, going into this like with third quarter of my life.
00:46:36
Speaker
And so this sounds weird to say that, but- It sounds weird the way you just put it. I would say more so that if you were younger and you had written a list of accomplishments, I feel as though you you have like checked the things off on that particular list. And now it's time to sit here and be like, okay, so what? is next? what you It's so interesting you said that because i you know i talked to still talk to students and I was just um having a whole... And that actually... That's probably to be my next venture. But I was talking to a young lady and just kind of helping her think about what she wanted to do next. And what I tried to explain to her, one, is that you never stop pivoting.
00:47:18
Speaker
Like, you just don't, you know, I'm not a baby boomer. And that's no disrespect to baby boomers, but they live very they lived very differently. And even Gen X-ers, like I am, we're kind of split because there are people who, you are just ready to be like company people. And like, could, I could just retire being a professor or retire from this, or what can I do next?
00:47:47
Speaker
You know, what, what else do I want to do? um You know, differently. So I would say for me, like, there's always something else. I, you know, I'm a, I'm a creator. I'm a creative spirit. Like there are other things I'm interested in. It's just, you know, like I said, you got to still got to pay the bills. So you got to, you know, plan for that kind of stuff. But I think that there's, um, I think that, you know, there's other things that I definitely would like to do, um, outside of the Academy. doesn't mean I'm leaving the Academy, but I think there are other ventures that I could do, you know, at the same time.
00:48:24
Speaker
um asked this, but I tried explain to the young lady, I said, you can't, one, you're not gonna always be everything, but you have a lot of talent, but girl, you're going to be, you're going to be You might start something. Yeah. I thought I was going to be an essence. I thought I was going to be writing magazines. You know, I thought was going be a feature writer. Then, you know, I thought I was going to get my PhD in English. I did not get my PhD in English. um You know, I started grad school twice. I i have credits in MBA. I have started, i was about to get a, what was it? A master's of science in computers, like a computer sound its Like,
00:49:04
Speaker
Girl, that's what I'm saying. you know i'm a lot I'm a lifelong learner. So I'm yeah always like thinking, you know shoot, if if I wasn't doing this, I probably would have been doing hair and makeup. Who knows? like I think it's just, there's so many things you can be interested in and have you know have interest in. I'm a foodie. like I could have went to culinary art school. like i think about that sometimes. i Should I just go to like a school? you know I'm always thinking about it.
00:49:34
Speaker
What other little certificate could I look? What certificate could I get? So I think that's that's innately in me anyway, but I would say that was a pivotal moment. yeah I offered that job to either go to... um Oh, and I also, i could have went to Bowie State instead of... um Instead of Howard? They were going make me wait a year.
00:49:58
Speaker
Oh, instead of coming to the men? They didn't have a tenure track position for me. So they were like, you can be a lecturer and wait. um And we'll give you know you apply for the tenure track position next year.
00:50:13
Speaker
Excuse me. Or i went on i was supposed to go on two job interviews. Johnson C. Smith was one. The second one was Texas Southern. I never made it to Texas Southern because I was so impressed with Johnson C. Smith. And they offered me that job so fast, I couldn't even. that's fair. Look, you just went from one 1867 to the next one. You know what I'm saying? It's okay. But it was meant because, and I know I'm a chatty Cathy.
00:50:43
Speaker
You all don't realize, like, to this day, that Johnson C. Smith class, it is the only class. And I cried real tears. Like I cried real tears because, um and you were 07, right? I was 08. You were 08, okay. So o a So I came in 05. So 09, that was the last class. that you From start to finish? That's start to finish class. I think that's Darrell Brown. And I think Lori.
00:51:16
Speaker
Isaiah. I probably can name we were all name out everybody. And actually, I want to show you something. i You're in my office. I'm looking at you.
00:51:27
Speaker
Yes, you're in my office. I feel so loved. Can I show you real quick? I feel so loved. Not I made the office. I love you guys so much. I carry you with me from office to office. Oh my gosh. Yes, you guys are here. Wow. My face. That was when you started. Landa Paeda. Yes.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah. these are yeahall like All my faves all in one photo. Oh my goodness. Smarty, arty, arty. Look how young we were. Lord have mercy. Look at us. Look at you with hair.
00:51:58
Speaker
um But no, I i um i cried. I cried over this. That that that that was a mix of 07, 08. Yes, it was. I mean, yeah. but That class.
00:52:15
Speaker
four years, start to finish. And that was my first class all the way through. And you just become attached. So it's very, it's not, you know, often, you you know, it's a mentee mentorship type of program or type of relationship that you have with students. But I would say like, y'all kind of were like my friends.
00:52:36
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like y'all were my friends. all still talk to you. mean, I talked to a lot of students, but it was like, that bubble that we created, yeah we I took y'all on field, I was like, where where are we going? i took y'all field, I was like, they are getting on this plane and these kids are getting out outside of this Charlotte and we are going anywhere that they want to No lie, no lie. My very first academic um conference, Dr. Harris took us, you i want to say you took a a group of, maybe it was like four to eight of us. I don't remember, but we went to Chicago. You took us to Chicago three for the communications conference. yeah
00:53:17
Speaker
And it was it was a it was a an entire experience. None of us had been, none of us were presenting, but we needed to see what presentations were because we were prepping for our senior papers, I believe.
00:53:29
Speaker
I believe we were prepping for our senior. I took you, Ben, Keisha. want to say Brittany Wiggins. And did I take Darrell?
00:53:42
Speaker
I might have took Darrell. But I know, I definitely know was Ben, Brittany Wiggins, you, and Keisha. It was amazing. It might have been Charmaine too. I did take a lot of y'all. I think it was Charmaine.
00:53:54
Speaker
did take a lot of y'all. And a lot of people were not bringing... young Black undergrads. And I wanted you all to see, like, because NCA, although I had you in the within the caucus, which is very, you're obviously Black, but when you walk outside the caucus, NCA is just... Yes, everything. though is me know I'm saying. It is not Black. It is a little bit everything. The rest of the world. And so I wanted you all to kind of see that and see that space and encourage you, like, to be...
00:54:29
Speaker
you know, be more, you know, whatever it is that you were trying to to be in. i was like, I'm going to take the best and the brightest from Johnson C. Smith. And we're going to go. And I did. we i we We went to Philly. We went to Chicago. We went to San Diego. like I was like, where do y'all want to go? we go we i took um them to Texas. We went to Houston. Wow. So it was just um wherever we wanted to go. And that's why i said it it did, because I think Lori came with us too one of the times. But like I said, it was like you all...
00:55:02
Speaker
were my students, but there was this sense of like family yes and prefer and friendship almost to some extent of just, you know, um because you all trusted me. And then I also realized that um it was really important to,
00:55:19
Speaker
that knowing I had your trust, that I took good care of you all and and made sure you all were, you know, not only just safe, but just well-equipped and had what you needed. And i just wanted to be what other professors were to me Howard. So I wanted to give you, you know, that experience. And I and i try to do that, you know, here, even where i work now, it's like be a representation of like, this is what it looks like. This is what community looks like. This is how you take care of each other. and we network and we make sure, you know, that you all have what you need. So, yeah. We appreciate you. we we do. and they they were a lot You introduced us a lot to what we didn't even know was possible. um
00:56:06
Speaker
Let's talk about resilience and process, right? What keeps you in the game when things aren't going smoothly? What keeps you going? Ooh. Oh, okay. Say faith. I mean, I think, I, you know, people ask me all the time, like, how do you do all this? How do you get it? And I'm like, i don't think about it.
Faith, Resilience, and Personal Growth
00:56:29
Speaker
Because if I took the moment, I just, but I believe, like my belief, um I just believe. I'm like, this is going to get done. It's going to be all right. Keep going. yeah you know Because I think sometimes if you think about it, you just get saddlebagged.
00:56:45
Speaker
It's almost like when you you know how guy you're supposed to clean the house and then you just be like, ah, there's just so much stuff everywhere. It's too much. Where do I sit? You know, but you mean my mom used to always say, just start somewhere. Just go down that one area and then next you know that area is done and then the next and then the next and the next. And I think it's it's it's that. It really is.
00:57:07
Speaker
I just have a sense of believing that everything's going to be all right. You know what mean? Like even when something is bothering me, like it's going to be all, I'm going to get, ah oh, this going to be, you know, this too shall pass. I'm going to get over this. if I'm sad about something or something's not going my way or, you know, someone's slighted me and I might be ready to turn over the table, but I have to believe that.
00:57:31
Speaker
it's going to be all right. I'm going to get over it. And I just have faith, you know, um in, you know, my maker, obviously, but faith in God and faith in like my abilities to, to get it done in that, you know, if I don't, you know what, it's going to be okay. It's going to be all right.
00:57:50
Speaker
It's going to be okay. It's going to be there tomorrow. And I just have to, you know, pull myself up and, and I would say too, Zena, like, Showing yourself grace.
00:58:02
Speaker
I think that's really important. I think, you know, especially when you work with young people, you see the pressures that they put on themselves or even myself, like in my mid-20s. I was a wreck, you know? I mean, I had a lot lot going on, but I just remember caring too much. I don't care about what this person thinks. What is my mom going to say? What my sister to say? What is, you know, what my dad, you know, what about this girl over here? what Girl, now I'm like...
00:58:29
Speaker
that's wisdom baby you know it is new right i mean obviously you you you want to be well liked or well received or you know people to think great things about you but it's some things that's just out of your control and you just have to be like i made the best decision can make for myself in that moment at that time with the information that i had big fat big fat you know what i'm saying and i think that's what it is not just I believe in destroying my self-grace. Like if I make a mistake, I make a mistake. I apologize.
00:59:02
Speaker
ah own it. I think accountability- these big. So many people aren't accountable. at all the stuff they do Which is wild because it's like people don't want to take accountability for themselves, but then they want you to turn around and expect like they turn around and expect accountability from you, which is wild. like What happened to treat others the way you want to be treated? What happened to that? like what are you Where are you coming from right now? But you know what? I feel like that's another conversation for a another day, but that that's the world and the ecosystem we live in. um But OK, OK, showing yourself grace and and faith in the creator and and your ability that the creator bestowed in you. I'm here for it.
00:59:43
Speaker
I respect this next section. I like to call application, right? Or the application and what we can actually take away and what our listeners can take away from your life experiences. So lessons for others. What is one mindset shift or practice that has helped you to succeed?
01:00:00
Speaker
Write it down. Write it down. I mean, write it down, make plain. um I think that's one. And then my my best friend taught me something and i now really apply it and it's the four Ds. oh And it's, um you know, it's ah you either delete it, no special order, but you delete it, you defer it, you delegate it, or you just do it.
01:00:29
Speaker
And when things come your way, you have to make a decision. This is where it's going to go. And my trustee, I don't have it out right now, but I always have a notebook. like I write everything. I'm like, I got to write it down because there's so much stuff coming. And then especially now with age, you'd be forgetting stuff. You are hilarious. I believe in like, you remember like the secret, it's like the secret, the secret works.
01:00:50
Speaker
Like, write it down. Okay. Write it down, make it plain, speak to it. Okay. This is what I have to do. This is my goal. This is what I'm trying to do. and seeing it. And I, you know, and I believe in vision boards.
01:01:03
Speaker
Okay. I believe in vision boards. I don't always get a chance to do them. Matter of fact, got one and I'm wondering where, just thought about it. I am so tickled the fact that you are looking around, looking for the vision board. like that But, you know, it's, it's really important. Um, one of my other mentors that I worked with, um, not too long ago, she used to get us these beautiful, um,
01:01:28
Speaker
these beautiful journal-like books that we would write. You could write your notes in and stuff like that. And I just really, just, I have to write it now or I'm going to forget. And I just check it off, but- I do the four D's and then I do write three things that I absolutely have to do for the day to feel productive.
01:01:50
Speaker
Oh, okay. I like that. If I do those three things, I can do a bunch of other stuff, but if I do those three things. You know, you did what you were supposed to do. I was like, you cook with fish grease. You take out the rest of the day. man Ma'am. Okay. Okay. Received. Received. I respect that. I hope y'all took um some notes just like she told you to write it down. All right. So let's talk about your process, right?
01:02:13
Speaker
How has your thinking evolved as you've advanced? How has your thinking evolved? um I think, one, ah I had to learn how I think, why had learn how I think.
01:02:26
Speaker
um You know, you we you talk about like Myers-Briggs. don't know if you've ever. Yes, I'm familiar. Like a Myers-Briggs test or other type of ability test, skills test. Those are really important.
01:02:37
Speaker
um And what I learned in being a lot of these workshops that I've been in, like these ah executive workshops that like I get to be in. Okay. That's what they do. Facts.
01:02:48
Speaker
That's what they do. we don't do that. We need to do that. Personality test. us Personality test. Learn. You know, look, I am like ENTJ all day long. But knowing knew that about myself, right?
01:03:01
Speaker
I am an extrovert. Now, I am an extrovert, but don't always like people, which is funny to me. Like, I'm like, ah but I don't make fake conversations.
01:03:14
Speaker
Organically, I'll talk to anybody on the street, anybody. But I don't like to make fake conversations, meaning like, oh, I'm in this room. I got to go talk to John Brown, the CEO of something, something.
01:03:29
Speaker
But if me and John Brown was standing next to each other, how you doing, John Brown? And I can have this conversation. um But learning why what kind of extrovert I am or why I like certain kinds of rooms and other rooms I don't like or knowing why I am very... I was in um i was doing a workshop the other day and I was telling us the the people, I'm very black and white. I'm very linear in how I think.
01:03:56
Speaker
But I had to take a test to learn that. okay I had to take the test. i took the Man, when I saw that, they they had a grid. When I saw that grid, that grid was like... I was like, dang. Because I always thought I was like, I'm so shades of gray. I'm just, you know, and go with the flip. No, I'm not. I'm black and white.
01:04:13
Speaker
okay But I didn't know. I thought I was something else. But then I learned, for me, there's a right and there's a wrong. There you go. That's just how I think, right? But because now I know that.
01:04:26
Speaker
I know how I apply things, how I do things. I know what kind of leader I am. I know how to, you know, work with my, how I work with my team. I know like, you know, I'm collaborative in spirit. Like they they tell you, they break down all that stuff.
01:04:40
Speaker
My professions that I'm supposed to work in. all Teacher always comes up. yeah Teacher comes up. Creativity comes up. All these different things. And so some people struggle because they're doing jobs.
01:04:52
Speaker
That aren't in alignment. That they're not supposed to be doing, but they're doing it because their mama, their daddy told them that's how you're make money. But you're a creative spirit, but you over here working in business. I feel like that's your your're your the gap you stand in to help other people. Right. Yeah. No, I'm a conduit.
01:05:09
Speaker
Y'all hear that that that? That is a a learned word. i no I'm a conduit. I am definitely, ah I bring people together, one person to another, and then it's like, okay, I just kind of move on. And um I remember one of the jobs I worked at, and my admin, Doris, she said to me, she said, you may not know it, she said, but you're a minister.
01:05:36
Speaker
And I said, what? Okay. She said, no, she said, i listen to you. I listen to you. i listen how you talk to students. I listen to how you talk to people. She was like, you're a minister. I was like, I'll take it. i know But she was just like, you know there is this this part of it, of you, where you want to get... I'm a natural giver. you know yeah My love language is is gifts, giving, and acts of service. So... um you have to learn that about yourself and then you have to lean into it.
01:06:07
Speaker
Fair. And I think when you lean into it and you learn that and you use that and it, you know, and I will say lastly, um, read.
01:06:18
Speaker
i never stopped. I am such a lifelong learner and nerd and I like to watch exposés and read audiobooks girl that's my jam okay i mean i'll always be able to sit down and read a book baby but i will listen to one okay look on the way on the way to whole foods on okay what was the last book you read the last book was um well i'm in i'm not done yet but i'm almost finished with um matriarch okay okay i'm in the middle of i'm in my bag right now i'm i'm matriarch i'm almost done with and actually it's a very fascinating book to learn about
01:06:58
Speaker
that Tina knows. I'm like, oh my God. And she got some nuggets in that book. um And then um I read Brandy because that's my favorite singer. So okay I read her book, but um I'm waiting on a couple of other books. I'm waiting for, this is, I mean, I'm in my, well, nonfiction, but I'm waiting for a fictional book to come out. It's Mara Brockett Kill. I'm waiting for her book. I'm going to get her book. and then um You really are like that. like Yeah. And then there's another book. I can't think of the title right now, but it's in my queue. Morgan Devon, she's ah the co-founder of um Afrotech. And um yeah, I'm an AM girl. AI is like my jam right now. So I'm like everything AI right now. I'm just...
01:07:50
Speaker
Oh, says the full full professor. Yes. but um So she has a book and they actually came out already, but I had put it in my queue and I just need to get it. Okay. But I like to listen to um you know different um audio books. um But there is one book that is called Oh Great One. Oh Great One.
01:08:11
Speaker
That's a good book. Okay. It's about the power of recognition. ok That's what that book is about. Fiction, non-fiction? It's not it's non-fiction. Okay. It's great one. Yeah. God, I can't think of the message. That's all right. We are we all have searches. called Oh Great One. Oh Great One. It's about the power of recognition, and it's such a good book, but it is about building relationships and working within an organization and why it's important to recognize people's gifts.
01:08:36
Speaker
And, you know, to compliment and also tell people when they're doing a good job and I see you, see you, you know, because people don't do that. That's true. People don't say they just watch you work and...
01:08:50
Speaker
you know But that's where I'm at right now. But right now I'm in my, I'm almost done with matriarch. that's how kind Okay. You gave me some gems I need to put him to ah into my library queue. So thank you for that. Appreciate you. Always always giving me the nuggets. I appreciate that. um Is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to put on the podcast? Anything at all? Anything that, you know, you would be very upset if we hung up these mics and you were just like, ah, I should have said this. What do we need to tell the people?
01:09:21
Speaker
ah no i mean, i think we covered so much. We did. We did. But it's been a great combo. I know. I know. I think for me, it's just um continue to, i think I'll use you. You're like, don't use me. you like I have watched you and some of your other classmates just see you guys kind of just flourish and grow and pivot.
01:09:45
Speaker
I think you asked me about earlier about pivoting. i did. And I think that is a really important, you know, piece. And don't put yourself in a box um of what it is. And I will say this, and I actually told this young lady this a couple weeks ago, you know, don't make everything money is really important. Yeah.
01:10:09
Speaker
But you want to choose, when you choose a profession or you choose what you do every day, meaning like what you got to wake up and go do every day, you got to love and enjoy what you do. You know, if you don't, I've worked, you know, or I've had stints where maybe my job situation wasn't comfortable yeah and I hated going to work. yeah It is the worst feeling to do something and you know you don't want to do it. And so I try to encourage young people to really seek out what it is they want to do. And they might think they want to do something.
01:10:45
Speaker
And then you're in it and you be like, you know what? don't like this. Now didn't tell go quit that day because you still got to pay your bills. But you can pivot or you can start to change or, you know,
01:10:57
Speaker
just turn a little bit, yeah um you know, to go down a different path. And so I would say that was, if that's one thing I didn't say, um i would say do that.
Legacy and Mentorship
01:11:07
Speaker
And I've watched you and I can name all my Johnson C. Smith students, you know, Travis.
01:11:13
Speaker
to know Oh my gosh. Everybody. I've watched everybody that, you know, and that's been my LinkedIn friends. I get to watch what you all are doing. And I'm so proud to see, you know, Isaiah. Oh God.
01:11:28
Speaker
Like just when I get to see what you all are doing and just how dope you are and, you know, whether you're getting married and having kids and, you know, becoming whatever it is that God put out here for you to do, you just do it and you do it well. And you got me on this podcast just running my dad on it. I'm sorry, boo. I'm sorry. But you're good at it, right? That's what you got your degree in.
01:11:52
Speaker
I mean, and I was trained by you. So, I mean, the best i straight like that. Cosign. I will cosign on that one. but no I will cosign on that one. I'm just beaming and, um, and I still have mentors.
01:12:08
Speaker
That's what's crazy. For sure. I got a card from my, from one of my Howard mentors. Like, and it was, she was not easy. I'm telling you, it wasn't like Kiki, like she was not easy.
01:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. But she, the way she pours into me and supports me even now, like, just forever, you can't you can't beat that. And you'll have you and I will have that forever. For sure. Isn't that exciting?
01:12:32
Speaker
It's so exciting. thank you like you can't You can't quit me. What you saying? I said, you can't get rid of me. You can't quit me. I hear it. Or stuck like glue, like I told y'all. No, I'm so grateful. And I am truly going to co-sign on everything you just said, just because, again, would not be...
01:12:55
Speaker
ike it's like you have your parents that raise you, but then you have you have those people that that pour into you. And you are one of those people who have poured into me since I was like 19 years old. You know what mean? Like for the past 20 years, you have been there by my side being like, nah, Zena, I don't care how you feel right now. You need to dust yourself off and keep it moving. Or i don't care that you don't want to do that.
01:13:22
Speaker
you told me you wanted to do X, Y, and Z. And this is a step to get to where you need to be. And you've just always been that person pulling me forward or showing me new new realms of or or rungs to a ladder that I didn't even know was going to keep going. So I'm just grateful.
01:13:39
Speaker
i you and you And let me say one last thing. a Again, it's not to keep baking it about you, but you've already lived you tell go be back and forth i know him already lived many lives and that's saying.
01:13:51
Speaker
I can remember you as a student running for SGA. Okay. Yes. not not Look, and this is not to put anybody down. You weren't trying to be a queen. I was like, oh no, honey, you are the president. You're going to be the president, honey. this a This ain't about, you don't need to be Ms. Johnson C. Smith. You cute though, but you're going to be the president of the school.
01:14:11
Speaker
And it was like, when you just went out and you did it. and And that's what I loved about you. Like you just was like, oh, okay. And then NASCAR, you know what I'm saying? And then it's like, oh, I'm going go to Howard. I'm going to get my master's. And then you did it. know what I'm saying? And then after that, then next thing you know, you're at Winston-Salem State and you're teaching.
01:14:35
Speaker
You know what mean? It's like, so you've already lived that life and, you know, and you're like a mom and you're just all these different things, which is crazy. Okay. Crazy. um But just to say you are living so many lives and you come from good stock, you know, you come from good, good stock and, you know, you just represent well. And so I,
01:14:57
Speaker
whoever's listening to me, like you're going to live many lives. bro You didn't know you was going to work. Who's going to work in NASCAR? Look, no no no no no no no, no, no, no. I told my dad when he was dropping me off at Smith in 2004, as we were passing the speedway, I looked up and I was like, daddy, gonna work for NASCAR. He was like, whatever, Zena, and kept driving. And then, you know, 2007, 2008 roll around. guess what?
01:15:23
Speaker
You had NASCAR. I'm at NASCAR. I mean, but that's what I'm saying. it like just to see people make these choices and work at these companies and do these things and go get the degree and go get the whatever.
01:15:35
Speaker
Your next journey. You've already written a book. I do have a book. You have podcast. I do have a podcast. You're succeeding. You're succeeding.
01:15:46
Speaker
dips Okay. This is not about me. All right. how but i just want I just want to put that on when people just... when I get people to say, like even me, like I can, I can sit here and break down all my little chapters. No, big facts, big facts. You're going to, you, I thought I was to be honest. Your, your steps again, paved the way for me to even believe it was possible. Granted, I have, I've had several influences like you just stated, but you literally paving the way me seeing like, okay, this is possible. Okay, so I can work at night and still get my work done and still show up for, you know, my job in the morning. I can do that because I've seen it done before. You know what mean? So it's you, you are, you are a trailblazer. And you know what you can do?
01:16:35
Speaker
You can change a mean tire, girl. Oh, my God.
01:16:43
Speaker
That is a throwback memory. oh my, that. I was like, oh my God. You were like, I can change your tire. i was like, jumped out that car.
01:16:54
Speaker
Pumped up that BMW. Put spirit. I said. this I sure did. And we. And we. but didn't brought me this So, I mean, multifaceted. That's all I'm trying to say. You can be multifaceted. I am so tickled. Oh, my gosh. I did change your tire. That's hilarious. Look, hashtag NASCAR. Let's go. ah OK, how can what's next for you? How can listeners support your journey? What's what's popping? I know that you are about to hand the baton over to someone else.
Leadership and New Initiatives at Howard University
01:17:24
Speaker
What's that? So I have been the president of the Howard University Alumni Association. It's you, don't age you the last four years. and I have what five days and some hours left. um And so I am passing it on to the next administration. My administration was Bice and Engage. I'm not going anywhere, but I definitely would be passing it on. um So i actually did start a um scholarship at Howard University under my name, Candice Lee Harris. I love that. Yes. scholarship for media students. So it is for students who are interested in journalism and media advocacy because we've got to get these real journalists back. Yeah, we do.
01:18:06
Speaker
You actually are a journalist who has a podcast, but you know, there's a lot of people out here that don't, but I digress. I mean, and so i I love you. I'm just saying, that's why you do so well. That's why you got me talking for like an hour. ah But you know, my bad.
01:18:24
Speaker
ah So I have that. So I'll be rolling that out and starting to raise funds for for my scholarship for journalism students at Howard University. um i also am in the middle of a campaign called The Legacy Lives Through Us. And it is to raise funds for the next Howard University administration, because I do believe in good transition and making sure that there's um funding for programming and scholarships for the next um ah administration for Howard University. So we are working on that to just show that that we are connected. OK.
01:18:59
Speaker
And then, you know, um i am a media scholar and I have a lot of books inside my head. um i just have a chapter in a book on um media women, sisterhood. It's about women on television, but sisterhood. okay And so the particular chapter that myself and my colleague, Dr. mariequita um Marquita, excuse me, Gamage wrote was um on ah best ah friendships. So we examined like Issa Rae, what we have, Insecure, Queen Sugar.
01:19:37
Speaker
And um girlfriends. Those are hard-hitting shows. Yeah. So we talk about really the importance of sistership and sisterhood. Okay. And almost as it it's almost could be to potentially more important than a romantic relationship when we talk about representation
Future Endeavors and Personal Interests
01:19:57
Speaker
on television. And so we examine some of those friendships on TV that we saw and what are the connections, we you know obviously theoretical okay connections behind that. So we have that. ah That's out. And actually did a podcast on that. And so I can share that information with you later. So I can find this on Spotify.
01:20:15
Speaker
um And it's in Imani Chair's book, Sacred Sisterhood, that looks at that. And then I want to get back to writing. You know, it's a lot going on in the world, you know, with everything, day you know, it's like.
01:20:31
Speaker
Jasmine Crockett and I did a presentation on that, just talking about the differences of how they treat Black women in politics. and i um You know, there are more shows that we can be, you know, examined or things of that nature. I do also work on assessment, um how we assess students in a classroom. So I think I'm going my nerd cap back on okay and I'm getting to the Ashley. I want to rest.
01:20:56
Speaker
um Get some rest. as you As you should. Well, between the two. But I think those are the two. Those are just some of the things that I'm going to be doing. And then um I've been doing a lot of consulting. So I think I'm going to really ramp up my consulting business. And so that's where you'll probably. um you know, be seeing and me. I just need to do a reunion with some of my face big facts, big facts. And you can use us like testimonials because you're you definitely hire her, hire her, especially if you are encountering or working with people who are about to encounter and encounter transitions because she is the transition queen in the sense of coaching you through it helping you to reassess your perspective, really looking at what's in front of you so that you can use that to your benefit.
01:21:45
Speaker
I think that's that's really a place where you shine as a as a scholar as well as as a person, like recognizing like, I don't think y'all saw this. So I'm going to shine some light on this little, you know, this little poster in the corner that they have available in the, in the frame. You know, I think you're really, I think you're really good at, at, at recognizing the fine details that other people miss.
01:22:10
Speaker
And, um, so I'm exciting to hear, I'm excited to hear more about your consultancy. I'm excited to hear about these books that will be coming down the pipeline and how can people find you? Ooh.
01:22:22
Speaker
So they can find me on IG. Okay. Girl Prof. You know, it's play on the name. So it's K-A-L-E-I-G-H-G-U-R. Oh, okay. You know, because she's from the West Coast. Because my name is Kali. Well, K and my little is Lee. So it's Kali. I'm from California.
01:22:42
Speaker
Girl Prof. Instagram. And then, of course, under my real name, am on, you know, LinkedIn. On the social media under my actual name. And then, of course, you know, Google me.
01:22:54
Speaker
um I'm out. I'm doing things. I work at ah California State University, Northridge. So I'm here in the Valley and just trying to do more great things here at this institution as well. love that.
01:23:07
Speaker
So that's where you can find me. I really hope they know the treasure that they have in you. I think they do. I think they do. But I really hope that they they fully recognize and you're able to materialize whatever they specifically need. Because I think that that's a beautiful place for you to be right now, um especially in being in so much sunshine. But I really hope that they know the jewel that they have, they have access to. So.
01:23:36
Speaker
My final question. Of course. My final question. And then we can sign off, of course, even though I'm loving this. ah What is one public facing? I have to it in parentheses. What is one public facing thing that people don't know about you?
01:23:51
Speaker
Public facing thing that people don't know about It's not private, but people just don't know. And you you don't mind sharing. Hmm. I'm such an open book. and only I don't even know. i'm perfect um Chow.
01:24:08
Speaker
Okay. I think I would say, mean, if it's like, everybody knows I know how to cook. Do they? I think all your friends know. And you said that you're a foodie, but said that you would have gone to culinary school. I'd be on my culinary arts, like for real.
01:24:24
Speaker
um No, I love i love food. i love i love food, like in in in a really... intense way, but, um, I love making good food. Can I just, eat can I interject? Can I interject at the time you blew my mind when you were like, Hey, you want some, ah you you want some guacamole? And I was just like, we don't have any chips. You're like, I have tortillas. And then you proceeded to to pour a little bit of olive oil in the pan and slice the tortilla up into, into triangles. the appropriate size and and, you know, and season them and like actually like throw them in the grease. And I'm just like, oh, this is a thing. I didn't even recognize that these tortillas were so versatile. Look, so yeah. the All the black people all the black people in California are like, that ain't nothing special. I'm so tickled. No, but no. I'm so tickled. No, i love cooking. I, um you know, that is that's something i actually, I take that and gardening.
01:25:25
Speaker
That is my, my house is a forest. I think that's something. I love that. People my place for the first time, they're like, you must have like 50 plants, you know, between the side and outside. They're just like, okay, fresh air. So I love, i love living things. Like you can't see, but it's literally five, it's five plants right there. And it's like one right here. And then it's like another one right there. But um I love living things. And so I love greenery and,
01:25:56
Speaker
So I just started growing my own herb gardens, tomatoes and rosemary. And I bought strawberry plant and I'm like growing strawberries and it's a whole thing. I love that. Leaving out of town and letting everything go to hell. So got it. That's very true. You're going to have to, you're going to have to set I have a green thumb. I'll say that. do have a green thumb.
01:26:18
Speaker
Okay. Okay. You know what? But that's like figuratively and in real life. oh That's so dope. I didn't, I didn't realize that. I feel like any interaction you may have had like ah a little plant, but never like 50 of them. So, but looking back at this conversation and looking back at all of your influence, you just have a green thumb across the board. And that's really dope.
01:26:40
Speaker
That's really dope. You, you are that lady. You are that woman. You are that doctor. Okay. Dr. Kay. And I will say this, you young people, They keep
Engagement with Young People in Academia
01:26:52
Speaker
you. think people always say, oh you know how young people keep you young. That's true. I think they keep you fresh. They keep you, you know, your eyes on what's going on and just, you know, i ah I can't say enough how being in academia and getting to interact with young people every single year. Even here where I'm not as involved as I was with you, yeah there's still intrinsic rewards from being able to interact with young people. For sure.
01:27:25
Speaker
It's just, you know, and then like I said, where I am, it's very, it's only like seven, not even seven, but just shy of 7% Black students. Okay. So being able to even have that kind of like interaction with them and just kind of let them see me and understand like, yo,
01:27:43
Speaker
hu They give me life. So students give me life. So ah they give me life. They need to pay us more though. Y'all heard her.
01:27:55
Speaker
yeah yeah Y'all heard her. Pay teachers and professors more. Run it run it up. I mean, theyre they are doing the creator's work. let's let's be Let's be very clear. But, you know, I digress. Y'all heard her.
01:28:08
Speaker
um But, yes, that those are all the questions I have. I think that this has been an amazingly eye-opening conversation. i always enjoy talking to you and hanging out with you and and listening to your stories. um Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm glad we were able to finally do this. And then hopefully we can get offside the camera and really... no facts. Like, we need to go somewhere. But we will we will talk about that in just a moment. Thank you.
01:28:39
Speaker
Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. This has been Dr. Harris from ah California State... No, what is it? That's right. California State University. Northridge. Northridge.
01:28:53
Speaker
Sea sun. Sea sun. I love that because you're always in the sun. And I want y'all to go and follow her. Definitely run this back. She dropped some serious gems. And if you made it this far in our conversation, you are a real one. And we are grateful for your attention for Next to Love. That is one of the greatest gifts that you can bestow on somebody.
01:29:12
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for participating in today's conversation, Dr. Harris. And as always, I hope y'all have a beautiful, beautiful day. This has been another episode of The Greatness Router and take care.
01:29:28
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this episode of The Greatness Router. If you found some value in today's conversation, be sure to subscribe, rate, and definitely share. It helps more people connect to the journey of greatness.
01:29:41
Speaker
Until next time, keep moving with purpose.