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Ep 18: Double Feature
51 Plays6 years ago
Episode 18 is here! We decide to do a double feature so up first we interview Chris Hutchings for High End Pins. Chris answers multiple questions and gives his professional thoughts on today's clear coat issues. Up next we had Brad Albright talk about his art and involvement with the home brew Led Zeppelin pinball machine. Last we wrap it all up with our thoughts on Elvira 3 and answer an email that we received.
Episode link is soundcloud.com/loserkidpinballpodcast/ep-18-double-feature
Check out H.E.P. at highendpins.com
Also take a look at Brad Albright's art at https://www.albrightillustration.com/
If you would like to see the Led Zeppelin Pinball machine, click the link right here --->
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
This is episode number 18.
00:00:11
Speaker
With me, as always, is my co-captain.
00:00:14
Speaker
How are you doing, Scott?
00:00:15
Speaker
I'm doing great.
00:00:15
Speaker
How are you doing, Josh?
00:00:17
Speaker
Apparently, your back really sucks.
00:00:19
Speaker
Yeah, you know it, man.
00:00:21
Speaker
Yeah, I've had a little bit of back issues today.
00:00:24
Speaker
It's been a... and yesterday.
00:00:26
Speaker
Honestly, a whole lot of just laying on the ground is helping a lot.
00:00:30
Speaker
Yeah, you need to stop moving those pinball machines by yourself.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hey, don't tell my wife that.
00:00:36
Speaker
She'll believe you.
00:00:37
Speaker
Oh, I know.
00:00:38
Speaker
That's why you need to come out and help me move Genie on Saturday.
00:00:41
Speaker
You know it.
Pinball Tournament Excitement
00:00:44
Speaker
Dude, I want to be there Saturday so bad for the tournament going on.
00:00:48
Speaker
But that's something entirely different.
00:00:49
Speaker
We'll get to that later.
00:00:51
Speaker
Okay, well, here's what you do.
00:00:53
Speaker
You get permission, come up to the tournament.
00:00:55
Speaker
We take Genie down to my house.
00:00:58
Speaker
We unload it, and then you crash here, and then you go back to Saturday morning.
00:01:02
Speaker
Job done.
00:01:03
Speaker
Dude, I can't even sit in a car to go across town.
00:01:06
Speaker
I doubt I can make the 180-mile trip.
00:01:08
Speaker
Have I introduced you to my friend ibuprofen?
00:01:12
Speaker
Dude, it's taken the edge off.
00:01:13
Speaker
That's about it.
00:01:14
Speaker
I see.
High-End Pinball Restorations with Chris Hutchins
00:01:15
Speaker
But we got a doubleheader tonight.
00:01:18
Speaker
We've got Chris Hutchins of High End Pins, and we've also got Brad Albright of the Led Zeppelin Project.
00:01:23
Speaker
So shall we get into this?
00:01:25
Speaker
Go ahead.
00:01:26
Speaker
All right.
00:01:27
Speaker
Let's have you introduce Chris for us.
00:01:30
Speaker
So this is Christopher Hutchins.
00:01:32
Speaker
If you are unfamiliar with him, he has a thread on Pinside, which is details his high end restorations.
00:01:40
Speaker
Go ahead and check out his website too.
00:01:42
Speaker
It's high end pins.com.
00:01:45
Speaker
Chris, how are you doing tonight?
00:01:47
Speaker
I'm doing great.
00:01:49
Speaker
So.
00:01:50
Speaker
I want to talk a little bit about restoring.
00:01:54
Speaker
People get into restoring cars a lot.
00:01:57
Speaker
However, not too many people decide to specialize into restoring pinball machines to their former glory.
00:02:04
Speaker
So take me down this
Chris Hutchins' Restoration Journey
00:02:06
Speaker
path.
00:02:06
Speaker
How did you end up doing what you do?
00:02:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:10
Speaker
So, you know, most people are probably smart enough not to try to make this a profession, but, um, I started out as a auto painter, a high end auto painter.
00:02:22
Speaker
It's actually born and raised in the auto body business.
00:02:26
Speaker
And, um, you know, I would just, you know, wanted to get a pinball machine for my game room, that kind of thing.
00:02:35
Speaker
I got a couple bad games.
00:02:39
Speaker
They were pretty rough.
00:02:42
Speaker
I just really wasn't satisfied with them.
00:02:45
Speaker
I have OCD, so I started looking at these things.
00:02:48
Speaker
I'm like, I think I could probably take this apart and paint this and do that.
00:02:54
Speaker
you know, make it look better.
00:02:56
Speaker
So that's how it kind of started.
00:02:57
Speaker
I was trying to satisfy myself with my own games.
00:03:02
Speaker
And that's what kind of bred the whole idea of, you know, hey, I could probably do this for a living also.
00:03:13
Speaker
Okay, when was that?
00:03:14
Speaker
When did you start doing that?
00:03:16
Speaker
How many years ago?
00:03:17
Speaker
That was probably, I guess, maybe 18 or 19 years ago.
00:03:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:24
Speaker
And so you've been restoring these ever since.
00:03:27
Speaker
When did you transition to say, you know what, I can do this for a living?
00:03:32
Speaker
So I guess that was probably around 2004 that I finally decided to do it full time.
00:03:42
Speaker
And the reason I did that was –
00:03:45
Speaker
At first, I would buy the games that I wanted, and I would fix them up, and then I would sell them when I got tired of them.
00:03:53
Speaker
After I sold them to a couple people, they were like, well, you did a great job on this thing.
00:03:57
Speaker
Could I send you a game and have you do the same thing to a game I already have?
00:04:03
Speaker
That had never even dawned on me at the time.
00:04:06
Speaker
And so after that happened, then I started to see that, you know, I'm able to, cause you would never survive doing this locally.
00:04:17
Speaker
There's just, there's not enough people in, in Charlotte, North Carolina of all places that would, would want a pinball machine restored.
00:04:25
Speaker
So then I kind of figured out, well, you know, I'm able to draw from the whole country.
00:04:30
Speaker
So I could probably generate enough business to make, uh,
00:04:34
Speaker
similar living that I'm already making doing cars.
Pinball Resurgence and Business Impact
00:04:40
Speaker
So that's around 2004 is when that demand got big enough to where I felt comfortable enough to take that kind of leap.
00:04:51
Speaker
So you speak of 2004, you know, lately we've been talking a lot about the renaissance of pinball and the real big resurgence we saw really coming into effect in 2014.
00:05:01
Speaker
Has your business picked up since then?
00:05:03
Speaker
Or, I mean, 2004, a lot of people talked about it was dead back then.
00:05:07
Speaker
Like, were you getting tons of pinball machines back then?
00:05:10
Speaker
That just seems...
00:05:11
Speaker
I don't know, weird to me.
00:05:13
Speaker
Yeah, I did actually.
00:05:15
Speaker
I think I had more games back then than I have now, but that was probably poor management on my part.
00:05:22
Speaker
I just didn't know how long it would take to do them or what – I wasn't probably – nobody had a blueprint for, hey, if you restore pinball machines, this is how you do it and this is how you handle it.
00:05:39
Speaker
own a restaurant there's kind of a blueprint there or car dealership there's a lot of different things that people have done and it's pretty well versed but with what i was doing it was nobody else was really doing it or not at that level so i had to figure it out so in 2004 i had you know uh plenty of games because you really didn't have the ability to get a new game
00:06:04
Speaker
Stern would make maybe one or two games a year, maybe.
00:06:08
Speaker
And that was pretty much it.
00:06:09
Speaker
So we were just, if somebody wanted a really nice game, the only way they were going to do that is to get a beater and restore it.
00:06:20
Speaker
So back then, it was definitely the dark ages as far as parts and things.
00:06:25
Speaker
But there was a demand.
00:06:27
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like you're right.
00:06:30
Speaker
Right before that, and I know you mentioned this before, Lord of the Rings and Simpsons Pinball Party came out.
00:06:36
Speaker
But you really didn't have any great games that people say, I want to buy that and put it on my house.
00:06:42
Speaker
There's a few that have come out that, you know, maybe Stern's Pirates, maybe Spider-Man.
00:06:47
Speaker
But it seemed pretty much dead that entire decade until you got to the likes of ACDC, Tron, those type of games.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, definitely a much bigger influx these days.
00:07:00
Speaker
There's so much new pinball.
00:07:02
Speaker
It's a different kind of collector, though, than we had back then.
00:07:07
Speaker
Back then, you know, it was people that there was a lot more nostalgia-based and that kind of thing.
00:07:15
Speaker
And these days, it's much more, you know, wow, look at this new.
00:07:20
Speaker
This looks cool or this is new.
00:07:22
Speaker
I haven't seen that before.
00:07:24
Speaker
And so it's definitely a different, it's a, it's a different vibe for sure.
00:07:29
Speaker
Did you ever in those times get hit up, uh, to pretty much build a machine from scratch?
Challenges in Pinball Manufacturing
00:07:34
Speaker
Like those coveted machines, like medieval madness and attack from Mars that were highly sought after at that time.
00:07:40
Speaker
I guess they still are nowadays, but we have remakes, but did anyone ever hit you up and say, Hey, this is the game I want.
00:07:46
Speaker
I can't find it.
00:07:46
Speaker
Will you build it for me?
00:07:48
Speaker
Yeah, I built one or two games from scratch, and after I did that, I really learned that it can be done, obviously, but it's not a good business model because –
00:08:04
Speaker
almost every time I would wind up spending in parts as much as it would cost.
00:08:10
Speaker
And much more than that, an aggravation trying to get everything that you would need.
00:08:18
Speaker
Because when people talk about building a game from scratch, I think a lot of times they don't realize how many intangible parts there are.
00:08:24
Speaker
It's the little things that really come back to haunt you.
00:08:27
Speaker
It's not the play fields or the cabinets or the...
00:08:31
Speaker
can are, it's the little stuff.
00:08:32
Speaker
It's the ball guides.
00:08:34
Speaker
It's the wire forms.
00:08:35
Speaker
It's, it's these kinds of things that can be really,
00:08:39
Speaker
impossible to recreate and especially recreate at a high level.
00:08:44
Speaker
I mean, you could make a ball guide that works, but it looks like it's been pulled down the road by a tractor trailer or something by the time you beat it with a hammer a hundred times to bend it and all that kind of stuff.
00:08:56
Speaker
So it's really not that practical way to do it.
00:08:59
Speaker
A lot of guys do that for fun.
00:09:01
Speaker
I think they just enjoy the challenge of it, but it's really not that practical.
00:09:05
Speaker
You're better off just to buy a really rough game and go from there.
00:09:09
Speaker
So how rough of a game?
00:09:11
Speaker
I've seen your restores go from something that looks like it was left in a dungeon and recovered after 20 years of being slept on by rats.
00:09:22
Speaker
And I've also seen ones that I thought, actually, this is a pretty decent game.
00:09:27
Speaker
Where is the sweet spot for finding a game that you want to restore?
00:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think the best...
00:09:35
Speaker
way to handle it is to either buy something that's very cheap and know that it's very rough and it's going to take a lot of work and you're going to spend a lot of money in parks or to buy something that's
00:09:49
Speaker
Not too nice, but decent.
00:09:53
Speaker
Maybe low routed, that kind of thing.
00:09:55
Speaker
Those are the best ways to handle it.
00:09:59
Speaker
Occasionally people will send a home use only game and there's nothing wrong with that.
00:10:03
Speaker
They certainly can benefit
00:10:05
Speaker
from being taken apart and gone through and things like that.
00:10:09
Speaker
But that's a little bit overkill, but usually you just want to get what you're paying for.
00:10:18
Speaker
So if you get a piece of junk and you paid a piece of junk price, that's fine.
00:10:23
Speaker
Or if you got a decent game and you paid a little bit more for it, that's fine.
00:10:26
Speaker
But more often than not, what's happening is people are paying –
00:10:31
Speaker
for a game they think is nice and it's really a piece of junk.
00:10:34
Speaker
So that's, that's the biggest issue that you run into with this sometimes that you, you know, somebody is overpaid for a game and they're going to need the same type of restoration as somebody that, you know, could have got, you know, the biggest piece of junk out there because at the end of the day, whatever makes it just a little bit nicer, it isn't that much nicer.
00:10:56
Speaker
So you were talking about kind of some smaller intangible parts.
Restoring Rare Pinball Machines
00:11:00
Speaker
Have you ever received a machine that was kind of more on the rare end of the spectrum and it's been kind of hard to restore because of the fact that there's no parts available for it?
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah, I've done a few games like that.
00:11:12
Speaker
The worst one I remember doing was Krull, and it wasn't because...
00:11:18
Speaker
The game was incomplete.
00:11:20
Speaker
It was because the condition of the game was so poor that it may as well have been incomplete.
00:11:27
Speaker
So you look at a game and you're like, well, I need a plastic set.
00:11:30
Speaker
You're not going to find a plastic set for Krull, so the only way you're going to do that is...
00:11:35
Speaker
to make one.
00:11:37
Speaker
And that's not an easy thing.
00:11:39
Speaker
You know, you got to involve an artist.
00:11:42
Speaker
You have to talk to the people that have the license and, you know, there's just a lot of things to it.
00:11:47
Speaker
And, and then you get to painting the cabinet.
00:11:50
Speaker
Well, you need stencils for it.
00:11:51
Speaker
Well, you know, obviously they don't,
00:11:54
Speaker
That's not a big demand, so you have to network with people.
00:11:57
Speaker
So when you get those kind of games, then you really have to lean on the people and your resources to try to get somewhere that you can work from.
00:12:10
Speaker
There's a lot more networking that goes into those kind of things in the background.
00:12:15
Speaker
There's probably not that many people who are aware of one, Kroll as the B action movie it was in the 80s.
00:12:23
Speaker
And two, there was actually a prototype pinball machine.
00:12:27
Speaker
How many were there?
00:12:27
Speaker
About four?
00:12:28
Speaker
Four or five?
00:12:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was like maybe five or six, I think, maybe.
00:12:35
Speaker
And I'd heard that maybe...
00:12:39
Speaker
I think one of them might have been King Kong.
00:12:42
Speaker
I've done a couple of those too, but it was either Crawl or King Kong, but I think one of them got lost in a fire, which is rare as those are.
00:12:52
Speaker
You can only imagine that happening.
00:12:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:54
Speaker
And then the Kroll, it has basically a near full size lower play field with a special glass that you can see it.
00:13:04
Speaker
Am I seeing it right?
00:13:05
Speaker
I've never seen one in person, but I've seen a lot of pictures.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.
00:13:10
Speaker
It's basically like haunted house or black hole, but the window that they use is this really strange, I don't know what the proper term is for it, but I think it makes things look strange.
00:13:24
Speaker
maybe smaller.
00:13:25
Speaker
I don't know.
00:13:26
Speaker
It's a really weird, when you look through it, you know, it's not like a kaleidoscope, but it's, I don't know what the proper term is for it, but it's a very strange window.
00:13:38
Speaker
And again, another thing that, you know,
00:13:40
Speaker
When you have a game like that and you're working on it, it's very stressful.
00:13:44
Speaker
I mean, you just take the back glass out and you carry it across the shop.
00:13:47
Speaker
You're like, please don't break, girl.
00:13:52
Speaker
Be careful with that.
00:13:53
Speaker
And every little piece of it is like that.
00:13:55
Speaker
So those kind of games are stressful to deal with.
00:14:01
Speaker
And that's a really rare one.
00:14:04
Speaker
I could imagine just for you, the, the anxiety level of that.
00:14:08
Speaker
You're just thinking, I, it's not like I can just order it from a pinball life or something like that.
00:14:12
Speaker
Can you give me a replacement crawl play field?
00:14:16
Speaker
So yeah, it's terrible.
00:14:18
Speaker
So one of the big things that's really been coming up is play field issues.
00:14:24
Speaker
And it seems that during the time of pinball, these issues seem to ebb and flow.
00:14:33
Speaker
Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're bad.
00:14:35
Speaker
And from your expertise, one, why do you see that as happening so much?
00:14:43
Speaker
Because...
Technical Aspects of Pinball Restoration
00:14:44
Speaker
Obviously, there are play fields in the past that had a certain type of clear coat that have lasted and others that haven't lasted.
00:14:52
Speaker
So do you have any sort of insider take on that?
00:14:57
Speaker
More than likely what's happening is the materials –
00:15:01
Speaker
Well, what I see is the materials, they're not hardening.
00:15:06
Speaker
So they're staying soft.
00:15:08
Speaker
They're staying in a state of not being cured.
00:15:12
Speaker
Why that's happening can be, there's a lot of reasons that could cause that to happen.
00:15:19
Speaker
They could be mixed poorly.
00:15:21
Speaker
It could be a bad batch product.
00:15:24
Speaker
It could just be whatever the...
00:15:28
Speaker
environmental regulations are at the time for the people that are making it, it could have some impact on their product.
00:15:37
Speaker
So there's a lot of different reasons why it would be that way.
00:15:40
Speaker
But as a painter over the years, we would constantly see a change of product lines.
00:15:47
Speaker
You know, you would get used to something and it would work for you great.
00:15:51
Speaker
And next thing you know, the paint rep would come in and say, you know what, they're reformulating and we're going with this now.
00:15:57
Speaker
And the reasons they would do that would be,
00:16:01
Speaker
There would be a lot of different reasons behind the mentality why they were doing it.
00:16:05
Speaker
Sometimes it would be profit margins.
00:16:07
Speaker
Sometimes it would be EPA regulations.
00:16:10
Speaker
Sometimes it would be because they honestly thought it was better.
00:16:14
Speaker
And I think that's why we see the same kind of issues with play fields and changes.
00:16:21
Speaker
They probably won't know that something's wrong until it's too late and they're out on the streets and they're seeing these issues and then they'll
00:16:29
Speaker
They'll work to resolve it.
00:16:30
Speaker
But the reason that we're seeing it now is really an unknown.
00:16:36
Speaker
But there's definitely something wrong.
00:16:38
Speaker
Do you think that – sorry, I'm thinking from a – I'm from heating and air conditioning background and the EPA messes with our jobs, I swear, every two years on something like this.
00:16:49
Speaker
Because a lot of the issues that have been coming up, people just go, why don't we go back to the diamond plate years of the 90s?
00:16:55
Speaker
But then it comes up to the EPA part.
00:16:58
Speaker
Is the product that's being used nowadays not as good as it was back in the 90s?
00:17:04
Speaker
Is it not as easy to use?
00:17:06
Speaker
Is there a reason?
00:17:07
Speaker
Because it seems like clear coats, in my opinion, should be something consistent.
00:17:13
Speaker
Regardless, you should know your product.
00:17:17
Speaker
Do you know what I'm saying?
00:17:18
Speaker
Yep, definitely.
00:17:19
Speaker
Definitely.
00:17:20
Speaker
And so I personally think there shouldn't be an issue because if you know your product, if you've learned to use your product, then you won't see these issues.
00:17:28
Speaker
So I guess the question I'm coming up with, does the EPA really play a huge factor into ClearCo or is it more of the manufacturers in?
00:17:37
Speaker
I don't want to put you in a position where you're calling anyone out.
00:17:40
Speaker
We're not asking for that.
00:17:41
Speaker
But what you've seen, because you've obviously been doing this for 15 years now, has it affected you differently?
00:17:49
Speaker
Yeah, well, the issue with the EPA as far as that goes, in general, over the years, I've been actually painting for, I don't know, 25 or longer, maybe 28 years, something like that.
00:18:05
Speaker
And I use the same paints and chemicals that I used back then.
00:18:08
Speaker
So I've had a constant hands-on experience with these chemicals way outside of pinball for a long time.
00:18:18
Speaker
And the thing that we've always seen as far as that goes is it's unfortunate, but the best way I can put it or the simplest way I can put it is the less toxic the paints, the less they work, which is probably not the most eloquent way to say it, but they just don't.
00:18:41
Speaker
the more toxicity they take out of the paints, the more troublesome they become.
00:18:46
Speaker
And I understand why they do that because of health concerns and environmental concerns and things like that.
00:18:51
Speaker
But that speaks a lot to why the paint or the clears that we use today are not as good as the ones they used in the nineties.
00:19:02
Speaker
And, and the ones that we were using in the nineties probably weren't as good as the ones in the eighties and those kinds of things, because,
00:19:10
Speaker
That toxicity is what creates the chemical reactions and hardens pain or makes it really stick well and makes it really bite into something.
00:19:20
Speaker
And as they double them down, we lose those properties.
00:19:26
Speaker
So that's the issue there, in my opinion, or in experience.
00:19:32
Speaker
And as far as the manufacturers go, no matter what their product lines are,
00:19:38
Speaker
I think what we can definitely say is they're clearly not testing it or putting it through any kind of real-world test because if they did, it wouldn't be out here doing the things that we're seeing.
00:19:52
Speaker
They would have caught that.
00:19:54
Speaker
And if they knew that and they still put it out, then that's even worse.
00:19:58
Speaker
But they're hurting themselves more than they're hurting even the people that are getting these flawed play fields because, you know,
00:20:06
Speaker
that it's hurting their business by doing that.
00:20:10
Speaker
But yeah, I think the biggest issue that we're seeing is they're clearly not testing this stuff or putting it through a real world type test because it doesn't take anything just to screw down.
00:20:24
Speaker
Let's just say you screw a post down very tight.
00:20:27
Speaker
You come in the next day, if it's bubbled, then there's a problem.
00:20:32
Speaker
So that's a test I could run here tonight.
00:20:36
Speaker
So if I'm making a play field, I would probably rerun that test definitely before I started shipping play fields out.
00:20:45
Speaker
I think it's one of those challenges where you have the latent defect.
00:20:50
Speaker
That's the construction term where they say, hey, we thought it was good, but down the line, it really, something happened.
00:20:58
Speaker
So sure, there's certainly the early issues you can see and the issues with playing over time that you can't see.
00:21:07
Speaker
But yeah, I wish I knew more about the process to figure out what's going on.
00:21:11
Speaker
Because again, it seems that they quiet down for a while and then they come back in.
00:21:16
Speaker
And I don't know where that sweet spot is or if there's a flaw in the manufacturing process that they're trying to cut a corner or they're doing something.
00:21:24
Speaker
It just seems so bizarre.
00:21:26
Speaker
Yeah, it is strange.
00:21:27
Speaker
And the biggest thing about that is I don't know what kind of clear coat they use.
00:21:32
Speaker
I mean, people assume that they're using an automotive clear coat, but they probably aren't.
00:21:37
Speaker
I mean, it's a wood product and they're probably using some wood type favorable clear coat.
00:21:46
Speaker
only automotive places use automotive clear, you know, it's, it's doubtful that they're actually using automotive clear on them.
00:21:54
Speaker
I mean, we use that, but, but you know, this is a one,
00:21:59
Speaker
one at a time, you know, type operation.
00:22:02
Speaker
And, and that, that is a whole different ballgame.
00:22:06
Speaker
But I seriously doubt they're actually using an automotive clear.
00:22:09
Speaker
I think a lot of people assume they do.
00:22:11
Speaker
I know that some of the aftermarket guys like CPR, they do actually use an automotive clear, but you know, the manufacturers, I seriously doubt they're using that.
00:22:22
Speaker
Now, is that a cost issue or because automotive, that is a mass production product.
00:22:30
Speaker
I mean, you're pumping out all those cars all the time.
00:22:34
Speaker
And so they have to have some sort of process that is quick and reproducible.
00:22:41
Speaker
But like, why couldn't, is there a reason why that couldn't translate to what we're doing?
00:22:46
Speaker
Or is it because it's, it's a big enough process and making pinball machines, but not that big versus what you do, which is a, a tailored handcrafted Rolex type approach.
00:22:59
Speaker
Like, you know, there seems to be some gap in how they're doing it.
00:23:04
Speaker
Automotive clear coat is, it hardens within, it's got a pot, you know, they call it a pot life.
00:23:10
Speaker
It's got a pot life of, some of it can be 30 minutes, some of it can go maybe even as long as two hours, but in a mass production environment, two hours, I mean, they couldn't possibly accomplish, you know, or get everything done and cleared, I wouldn't think, in two hours.
00:23:34
Speaker
And this might be, and this is just in theory, but this might be why they have the hardening issue because if they're using robotic equipment,
00:23:46
Speaker
there's a possibility that the mixes that are sprayed through a robotic, um, through a robot are made to purposely not harden too quickly because it would harden within the plumbing of the robot and ruin the robot or make a mess for somebody to clean up or try to get the hardened material out of the robot.
00:24:07
Speaker
So, you know, whatever material they're, they're using, it has to stay, um, it has to stay solvent for,
00:24:16
Speaker
a much longer period of time than most automotive clear coats would if they're doing things in large batches.
00:24:22
Speaker
You know, if I go out there and clear a play field, you know, I'm clear a play field.
00:24:26
Speaker
I'll be done with it 15 or 20 minutes after I mix the clear and whatever's left over.
00:24:32
Speaker
If I go out there in a couple hours, it's hard, you know, and that's fine.
00:24:36
Speaker
But you can't really do that.
00:24:38
Speaker
If I was going to do 50, I couldn't do 50 in one.
00:24:41
Speaker
I would have to mix it.
00:24:43
Speaker
clear repeatedly over and over and over to make sure I had something that wasn't in a hardened state by the time I got to the end of it.
00:24:54
Speaker
So that brings up a question in my mind, because a lot of what I've heard over the couple of, what has this been a month now, we've been having these issues, month and a half of
00:25:02
Speaker
of clear coat gate or whatever they're calling it nowadays, whatever the kids are calling it.
00:25:06
Speaker
But, uh, so my question is a lot of the conception is, is, well, sometimes it takes clear coat 20 plus days to harden, or it does this and that.
00:25:16
Speaker
Is that true?
00:25:17
Speaker
Or, I mean, it sounds like you're saying it takes anywhere about 30 to 20 or 30 minutes to two hours.
00:25:23
Speaker
Should that be pretty much the case all the way around?
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah, well, you have two different states.
00:25:28
Speaker
So you have hardened.
00:25:31
Speaker
So the initial drying of it is it's hardened.
00:25:35
Speaker
So it's kind of like if you had some in the bottom of the cup, it turns into, let's just say it turns into like a little clear hockey puck.
00:25:43
Speaker
But it's still spongy, but it's hardened.
00:25:46
Speaker
You couldn't spray it.
00:25:48
Speaker
You could, you know, it's not liquefied anymore.
00:25:50
Speaker
So the initial 30 minutes to two hours is when it is no longer liquefied.
00:25:56
Speaker
And then you have cure time.
00:25:58
Speaker
So that's what really people are talking about when they're talking about the second phase of it, which is the cure time.
00:26:04
Speaker
And, you know, clear, it can vary.
00:26:07
Speaker
Some of them can...
00:26:08
Speaker
you know, fully cure in 30 days, some of them 60, some six months, but that doesn't have a whole lot of impact on the overall hardness of it.
00:26:21
Speaker
you know, after a week, let's just say a week max, you should not be able to bury your fingernail and, and make an impression in the clear coat.
00:26:31
Speaker
It may still be in a, a state of cure where it's still not fully, uh, shrunken.
00:26:38
Speaker
And that's kind of what curing is.
00:26:40
Speaker
It's shrinking.
00:26:40
Speaker
It's, it's drawing in.
00:26:42
Speaker
It's, um, it's evaporating more and more.
00:26:46
Speaker
And as it does that, it, it, it tightens the surface.
00:26:49
Speaker
It tightens.
00:26:50
Speaker
Um,
00:26:51
Speaker
But within a week, you shouldn't be able to put a fingernail in it.
00:26:55
Speaker
If you can, if I had something that I had clear-coded a week later that I could still put a fingernail in, I would be concerned.
00:27:05
Speaker
I would probably start thinking about needing to redo it.
00:27:09
Speaker
uh, you know, from an automotive standpoint, I mean, you couldn't send somebody's car out the door, you know, in that state, because as soon as a rocket's, you know, uh, going down the road, it's, it's, it's going to chip or it's going to indent.
00:27:21
Speaker
So, so, um, but, uh, anyway, to answer the question more directly, it's two different phases.
00:27:27
Speaker
You have the hardening of the product.
00:27:29
Speaker
That's the initial hardening that happens within 30 minutes to two hours.
00:27:33
Speaker
And then you have the curing state, which is the total evaporation, um,
00:27:38
Speaker
of any solvents in it and that can take anywhere from weeks to months.
00:27:44
Speaker
Well, hopefully they'll figure it out very soon and if not, I plead with them to call Chris and bring him up for his consultant.
00:27:52
Speaker
No, man, I can't help them.
00:27:54
Speaker
I don't know what they're doing over there.
00:27:57
Speaker
Okay, well, let's move on to some more fun stuff.
00:28:00
Speaker
So my friend here, he has basically the best of Bally Williams out there.
00:28:07
Speaker
And he's actually really good friends with Jim McCune, who used to do very similar stuff to you, lives in St.
00:28:14
Speaker
George, Utah.
00:28:16
Speaker
He has an amazing scared stiff that Jim has restored.
00:28:21
Speaker
And he has a Adams family goal that he keeps trying to talk Jim into getting back into business.
00:28:28
Speaker
And so I said, no, just let Jim, let Jim be, let's send this to HEP and let him, let, you know, let Chris take care of it.
00:28:36
Speaker
So I said, you know, Jim will tell him the same thing.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah, no, no, I know.
00:28:42
Speaker
I know.
00:28:42
Speaker
And I've been, he's, he's really good friends with Jim.
00:28:45
Speaker
Jim's a great guy.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah, Jim's a great guy.
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah, but so so he actually he was texting me.
00:28:51
Speaker
I work with him and I said, hey, I'm talking to Chris right now.
00:28:54
Speaker
And he's like, OK, so ask him how when he can do my Addams Family Gold for me.
00:29:00
Speaker
So let's drive some business to you.
00:29:04
Speaker
What is the lag time when people contact you and say, hey, I have a game, I wanna restore it to when it actually gets on your table to what's the average restore time?
00:29:16
Speaker
And I know that's a loaded question because every restore is completely different depending on parts availability.
00:29:22
Speaker
But say I were a client calling you for advice, what would you tell me?
Timeline for Pinball Restoration
00:29:29
Speaker
Yeah, I usually tell most people four to six months, and that's fairly true, you know, but it really depends, honestly.
00:29:39
Speaker
Sometimes, you know, a game will come in, and a month after it's came in,
00:29:44
Speaker
you know everything's kind of lined up and it can go right in and then there's other games that are really difficult and they might sit here for you know 10 months before because it's a certain type of project so it's really hard to it's really hard to put into words what makes uh one one project flow so quickly and another one takes so long but
00:30:08
Speaker
The biggest issue with them is typically that I will take in almost anything, and sometimes that leads to some really challenging projects, and you have to be as conceited as it sounds, I guess.
00:30:25
Speaker
You have to feel like working on it, or you have to be in the mood, because if you aren't, that work's going to suffer, because
00:30:32
Speaker
You know, you have to feel like, I think right now I've been painting, or this week I've been painting a radical cabinet.
00:30:38
Speaker
You know, you got to feel like painting a radical cabinet.
00:30:42
Speaker
You know, it's not a fun thing to do because, you know, so anyway, it depends on the job and the thing, but
00:30:51
Speaker
Cookie cutter games, Adam's Families, and these really straightforward games, Twilight Zone, four to six months is not a problem to turn those around.
00:31:00
Speaker
Some of them get turned around in two or three months, but the more complex stuff, these spirits and this radical and a lot of these other things I'm working on, sometimes it takes a year or longer.
00:31:13
Speaker
Well, because I know that you adjusted your posting on Pinside because you used to do it a game at a time and talk about the restoration process.
00:31:22
Speaker
But then you have since transitioned, which I really love how you're doing daily and weekly updates to say, hey, this is what I'm working on right now.
00:31:29
Speaker
And it's amazing to me.
00:31:30
Speaker
It certainly makes sense.
00:31:32
Speaker
But you're working on about three or four games simultaneously.
00:31:36
Speaker
depending on what is available and what the parts are going in.
00:31:39
Speaker
And so that seems to be a big juggling project.
00:31:42
Speaker
It can be.
00:31:43
Speaker
I used to maintain this photo gallery.
00:31:46
Speaker
It's still up there.
00:31:47
Speaker
It's a great photo gallery, but things got so instant these days with your phone and you can text people and you can take a picture of something and just put it right on a pen side or something like that.
00:32:00
Speaker
And I have this photo gallery and I used to take, I have a digital camera and I would take
00:32:05
Speaker
I would have to take 50 digital pictures because if I took 50, I would walk away with about 20 that weren't blurry.
00:32:14
Speaker
And then I'd have to upload them to the photo gallery and put the captions up there and do all that.
00:32:21
Speaker
And that's how I used to keep people informed with their projects.
00:32:24
Speaker
But it really didn't help that much because...
00:32:27
Speaker
they still wouldn't know when their turn would be or what was next or that kind of thing.
00:32:34
Speaker
So that transition that I did on Penn side has really been helpful.
00:32:40
Speaker
It really helps people know what's going on.
00:32:42
Speaker
And basically, whatever you see, that's what I'm doing.
00:32:46
Speaker
I mean, it's just me.
00:32:47
Speaker
So if I'm working on Dracula, then...
00:32:52
Speaker
that's what I'm doing.
00:32:53
Speaker
I can't be doing, you know, but, uh, but I do bounce.
00:32:55
Speaker
I have like three or four active projects at a time, probably really like eight, you know, but, uh, but I'm always, you know, I kind of get it going a certain direction and then I'll zero in on one and get it across the finish line.
00:33:10
Speaker
So is there like a specific game that's just your favorite to restore or is there like a type of era that you like better than another?
00:33:18
Speaker
I definitely like the WPC games the best just because they're, well, maybe even the WPC 95 games, but they're remaking all of those.
00:33:29
Speaker
So I have to gravitate back towards the WPC games, but they're the easiest for me to work on one.
00:33:34
Speaker
Because I'm just, I just, there's something about those games, I've done so many of those in particular, that I just, I know everything about them.
00:33:43
Speaker
I know which way the diodes need to go.
00:33:46
Speaker
I know what color the wiring is for this, that, and the other thing.
00:33:50
Speaker
You know, I just know.
00:33:52
Speaker
everything about it and you know it just i don't need to look at any pictures i don't need to look at any manuals i i know that you know so i like those because they go together really well although i'm starting to get that same kind of feeling about these um early valley solid state games so those are my favorite games to actually restore are the
00:34:13
Speaker
the early Valley Solid State games, you know, the Harlem Globetrotters, the Centaurs, the Fathoms.
00:34:19
Speaker
I like the painted cabinet games with the real back glasses.
00:34:24
Speaker
I really like those games a lot.
00:34:26
Speaker
It's just maybe it's my age.
00:34:27
Speaker
I'm 47.
00:34:29
Speaker
Well, I will be in a couple more days.
00:34:31
Speaker
But it's just what I remember playing when I was a kid, and I like that the simplicity, how they would take –
00:34:38
Speaker
just three colors and do the art for the cabinet, but it was cool looking and they would have the real back glasses and that kind of thing.
00:34:45
Speaker
So I would say I like restoring those games the best.
00:34:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:49
Speaker
When I was following and you recently did a Harlem and every time I saw an update on that, I was just looking at that saying, man, I really need to get a Harlem because Chris makes this thing look really good.
00:35:00
Speaker
It's, it's just that classic look.
00:35:02
Speaker
And I love seeing that.
00:35:04
Speaker
That would be a great showcase showcase to have in a basement.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, those games are really cool.
00:35:11
Speaker
They did so much with so little back then.
00:35:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:14
Speaker
So I have two remakes.
00:35:17
Speaker
I have Medieval Madness and I have an Attack from Mars.
00:35:21
Speaker
And
00:35:22
Speaker
What are your feelings on... The reason why I bought them is because when I bought them, you couldn't buy a Medieval Madness because it was too expensive.
00:35:30
Speaker
In Attack from Mars, I got the LE, so I like the top or the interaction.
00:35:37
Speaker
From your standpoint, the restoration standpoint, do you see much of a difference between the remakes and the classics, or do you feel that there's a pretty good overlap?
00:35:48
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think there...
00:35:51
Speaker
completely different mechanically, uh, or maybe not mechanically, probably best to say electronically because mechanically, you know, they still have ports and stuff, but, but they're not, you know, they're not as easy to work on one or I'd say they're not as user friendly, but at the same time, I mean, I can definitely understand the draw of them.
00:36:10
Speaker
I mean, cause you're going to get a brand new attack from Mars for like what, six or $7,000.
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:16
Speaker
And, uh, compare that to,
00:36:21
Speaker
A routed one, even if you get one for $5,000, is going to need a $7,000 or $8,000 restoration, so it's a $14,000 game.
00:36:29
Speaker
If you put them side-by-side and you don't know a lot about it,
00:36:32
Speaker
You know, I mean, it's a pretty tough thing to justify.
00:36:36
Speaker
So I think they're great.
00:36:39
Speaker
I think they remade the right ones.
00:36:41
Speaker
And, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with them.
00:36:45
Speaker
But the biggest issue I see with them is there's just a lot of unknowns about them.
00:36:50
Speaker
We just won't really know, you know, for a few years.
00:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's from the restoration standpoint.
00:36:58
Speaker
You know you can keep a 20-year-old Williams game going.
00:37:04
Speaker
Can you keep a 10-year-old Chicago Gaming Company game going?
00:37:09
Speaker
And those are certainly legitimate questions from the right person, which is you.
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think if they're successful, if Chicago Coin is successful, then yeah, you know, because they'll be there to keep making parts and they'll have a desire to keep their products on the streets and running.
00:37:29
Speaker
But if for some reason, you know, they fizzle out, then it's going to be a problem.
00:37:33
Speaker
So a follow-up question is when you're restoring, I was just flipping through your picture book and I saw that you just finished a scared stiff, which is very similar to my friends.
00:37:46
Speaker
And he's added some mods and he's taken some out the mod.
00:37:52
Speaker
I don't know if you put that in this game, but there's a really cool mod that had eyes that actually looked back and forth.
00:37:58
Speaker
And he put that in his game.
00:38:00
Speaker
Where is that line that you walk on
00:38:03
Speaker
what mods you're going to put in versus mods when you think that looks kind of cheesy.
00:38:08
Speaker
That's a little too much.
00:38:10
Speaker
I like, because you know, sometimes it looks like the entire thrift store has been shoved under glass, which just seems way too much.
00:38:18
Speaker
And then there's other times when like for my Tron, I looked at my Tron, I thought, I don't know, it just seems really missing.
00:38:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yeah, mods are really tricky because, well, for me, the first criteria is it needs to look at least on par with factory parts.
00:38:38
Speaker
So a lot of the mods that you see are just, they look like toys and they're, you know, they're glued together and they're sloppy and
00:38:47
Speaker
the quality of them does not match up to the quality of the other parts on the play field.
00:38:52
Speaker
So that's a huge, that's a huge red flag.
00:38:55
Speaker
So that's the first thing I look at as far as if I would use a mod or not use a mod.
00:39:00
Speaker
The next thing is, is what does it really do?
00:39:04
Speaker
Does it really enhance the game or is it just another toy so somebody can sell something to somebody else?
00:39:10
Speaker
And another issue that a lot of people don't look at, but you really have to consider because I've
00:39:16
Speaker
run into this many times is, is it a ball trap?
00:39:19
Speaker
You know, it might look really cool to put, you know, thing over there on this little plastic next to the scoop.
00:39:25
Speaker
But if you find out that the ball gets stuck behind him every time you hit the targets, it's no good.
00:39:31
Speaker
So, um,
00:39:33
Speaker
So those are a lot of the things that we look at as far as if I want to put a mod on there or not.
00:39:38
Speaker
But for me, I generally try to steer away from them if I can, and I'll put whatever somebody asked me to put on there.
00:39:49
Speaker
I would definitely do that, but I don't prefer any of them specifically because it can be the only reason that you have a lamp shorting, or it can be
00:40:01
Speaker
you know, again, a ball trap or it could fall off, you know, by the time it bounces from here to California, you know, so, so mods are kind of really individual.
00:40:11
Speaker
And most people that are in this hobby are more than capable of putting their own mods on.
00:40:16
Speaker
And I certainly put anything anybody asked me to put on there unless I know it's a bad idea, but, but generally speaking, I'm not against them, but they need to be really good before I would put one on there.
00:40:28
Speaker
So two more questions.
00:40:30
Speaker
One, if you were restoring a game for yourself, what would it be right now?
Chris Hutchins' Pinball Preferences
00:40:37
Speaker
Oh, man.
00:40:37
Speaker
I think if I was going to restore a game for myself, I have unusual taste.
00:40:42
Speaker
I would probably do a police force.
00:40:46
Speaker
Really?
00:40:47
Speaker
Why?
00:40:47
Speaker
And then there was crickets.
00:40:50
Speaker
I think I would actually, I think I would probably try to do it like a re-theme.
00:40:54
Speaker
I would either do it like, I don't know, play jack or something cool.
00:40:59
Speaker
You know, I don't know, or something not cool.
00:41:01
Speaker
I kind of like things that aren't cool.
00:41:03
Speaker
But either way, you know, I always like, I like obscure things.
00:41:08
Speaker
I would rather have the only thing
00:41:10
Speaker
HEP police force in the world in the 50th HEP medieval madness, if that makes any sense.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:18
Speaker
I, okay.
00:41:19
Speaker
So seriously, I don't even know what police force looks like.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
I mean, it's not the most attractive game.
00:41:28
Speaker
That's for sure.
00:41:28
Speaker
It's probably not the most, well, it's pretty fun, but, but you know, just, you know, I like the obscure games.
00:41:34
Speaker
I really liked system 11 games.
00:41:36
Speaker
Um,
00:41:37
Speaker
But I think – I don't know if it's charity or what it is, but I want to bring justice to things that haven't been given any justice.
00:41:48
Speaker
Okay, is there really like a cop that's a jaguar on the back glass?
00:41:54
Speaker
I think so, but we could turn him into Kojak.
00:41:56
Speaker
I'm pretty sure he's good.
00:42:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:01
Speaker
I will say of all the pins that you were going to pull out in a million years, I would not have guessed that one.
00:42:11
Speaker
What can I say?
00:42:12
Speaker
I mean, that's something I've really been thinking about doing that one day.
00:42:15
Speaker
One day I'm going to do that.
00:42:17
Speaker
That's great.
00:42:18
Speaker
Well, Chris, anything else that you're thinking about that you want to bring for a last comment?
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:27
Speaker
Not really.
00:42:28
Speaker
I mean, I think that, uh, I think we've covered all the bases.
00:42:34
Speaker
All right.
00:42:34
Speaker
Well, let's, let's get some people to your website.
00:42:38
Speaker
How can they contact you and how can they restore the best, uh, to get the best pinball restored game out there?
00:42:46
Speaker
Uh, the best way to do it is just to go to highendpins.com and, you know, everything's there.
00:42:54
Speaker
My phone number's there.
00:42:56
Speaker
You know, the email things there, all that stuff there.
00:42:59
Speaker
Awesome.
00:42:59
Speaker
Thank you so much, Chris.
00:43:01
Speaker
All right, man.
00:43:01
Speaker
I appreciate it as well.
00:43:04
Speaker
All righty.
Led Zeppelin Pinball Project with Brad Albright
00:43:05
Speaker
Our next guest is the infamous Mr. Brad Albright.
00:43:09
Speaker
He has been working currently on the project of Led Zeppelin with Roto Dave, if you know Roto Dave from Australia.
00:43:16
Speaker
If you don't know what we're talking about, Pinside has it listed as one of the most recent pins that have been included into their system.
00:43:23
Speaker
um they took a ballet freedom and rethemed it brad is the man that did all the artwork it's beautiful artwork we've got him on now because we want to talk about this thing it's it's i think it's fantastic so without further ado i'm going to shut up now brad how you doing brad hey good thank you thanks for having me dave is in new zealand so you guys hang out all the time right
00:43:48
Speaker
Never have, but now I have a really good reason to go, yeah.
00:43:51
Speaker
Okay, so how did this, tell me about this project, how did this mashup happen from around the world?
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess kind of skipping over some of my backstory, which we can touch on that later, I was listening to Head to Head,
00:44:16
Speaker
Dave was a guest on it.
00:44:20
Speaker
Towards the end of his interview, he started mentioning that he was working on a home brewery theme of this electromechanical
00:44:33
Speaker
freedom game and he was turning it into Led Zeppelin but the caveat was that he didn't have the art shops to do the back glass I think that was specifically what he called out and that he was looking for a Led Zeppelin fan somebody that would be interested in collaborating on that and
00:44:56
Speaker
It was just kind of the right time in my life for a few different reasons that I immediately emailed him based on just that little description that he gave.
00:45:08
Speaker
And kind of within 30 minutes, he had responded that he liked my work and he thought it was a decent fit.
00:45:16
Speaker
Okay, like you said, though, let's back this up two seconds.
00:45:19
Speaker
Brad, why don't you tell us how you got into pinball and what brought you up to this point?
00:45:24
Speaker
Okay, so...
00:45:26
Speaker
I mean, pinball for me kind of goes back to childhood, but in kind of like a surface way.
00:45:35
Speaker
I never really learned to properly play.
00:45:37
Speaker
It wasn't really until my mid-30s that I started diving deeper into the hobby and learning about all the techniques that we're all aware of here.
00:45:50
Speaker
But...
00:45:52
Speaker
You know, as a kid of like the late 80s and 90s, things like the Addams Family were sort of ubiquitous.
00:46:00
Speaker
It seemed like every sports bar or restaurant had Addams Family.
00:46:05
Speaker
So that was something that, you know, no matter where it went and as we moved a few different places around the States growing up, that was always a game that I recognized and felt like I could play, even though I really didn't know how to play it.
00:46:23
Speaker
And I had a friend growing up that had a couple machines in his basement.
00:46:26
Speaker
He had a Mata Hari and a high speed.
00:46:30
Speaker
And then going to my dad's college reunion, you know, I'd be over in the corner of the bar playing pinball while he and his buddies were catching up and drinking.
00:46:41
Speaker
So, yeah, it was kind of a nostalgia thing.
00:46:45
Speaker
And then now as an adult, I've
00:46:50
Speaker
Got to a point with my day job where I'd been there for a while.
00:46:54
Speaker
I was designing licensed merchandise, mostly apparel, but also wallets and things.
00:47:01
Speaker
A lot of Harry Potter, Wonder Woman, Batman, that sort of stuff.
00:47:06
Speaker
And I reached a point where I was ready to kind of take a leap of faith and cut the security of that.
00:47:15
Speaker
and pursue more art festival type things, art gallery shows and freelance work in my online shop.
00:47:25
Speaker
And that was March of last year.
00:47:29
Speaker
And almost, I don't know, it seemed like almost immediately after that, I was suddenly newly interested in pinball.
00:47:38
Speaker
I don't know why.
00:47:39
Speaker
I think I just was thinking nostalgically about
00:47:45
Speaker
playing things like Adam's Family.
00:47:49
Speaker
I always got excited when I would see pinball, but it wasn't something that had come around much lately.
00:47:54
Speaker
I don't know.
00:47:59
Speaker
There was kind of like a snowball effect where I just started running some searches and then I realized that there were places around town to play.
00:48:07
Speaker
I'm in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, by the way, so there's a lot of
00:48:14
Speaker
barcade you know style places to go and so with kind of the new freedom that I had in my professional and personal life I started drawing more inspiration from pinball and listening to podcasts and learning you know how how deep it can go
Brad Albright's Pinball Journey
00:48:34
Speaker
so this past year has been kind of like an adventure of learning and trying to up my skills and
00:48:40
Speaker
And so while all of that is going on, then I hear this, you know, on head to head with Dave, that he's looking for a collaborator and it just, it was the right time for me to kind of embrace that kind of opportunity.
00:48:54
Speaker
So was this your first ever attempt at doing pinball art and a play field?
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:04
Speaker
As far as a machine goes, I was dabbling a little bit with,
00:49:10
Speaker
some pinball inspired art, but never an actual functional play field and back glass.
00:49:19
Speaker
Dang, that's pretty crazy.
00:49:20
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:49:21
Speaker
Looking at this, if you guys haven't checked out the video, we'll put a link in the show notes for you to go check it out.
00:49:28
Speaker
But looking at this, I mean, this thing is insane looking at the artwork.
00:49:31
Speaker
And for it to be your first up to bat attempt, it's hit it out of the park for me.
00:49:38
Speaker
Yeah, basically, so while you've been talking, actually this whole interview, I just keep watching this endless loop of that and thinking that is, this doesn't look like a first time effort.
00:49:50
Speaker
This looks like an experienced pinball artist, which is shocking that it's like, no, I just did this thing.
00:49:59
Speaker
I don't know.
00:50:00
Speaker
No big deal.
00:50:01
Speaker
May delete it later.
00:50:02
Speaker
You know, it's like those big Instagram quotes where it's like, yeah, I don't know if this is any good.
00:50:07
Speaker
And I'm looking at it thinking this is a really interesting design.
00:50:10
Speaker
I like it has a very distinctive style, but it certainly fits with that retro, like late 70s, early 80s vibe.
00:50:21
Speaker
So, yeah, it fits perfectly.
00:50:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:24
Speaker
Yeah, thank you.
00:50:25
Speaker
I mean, that's kind of by design.
00:50:27
Speaker
I mean, I appreciate you saying that.
00:50:31
Speaker
A lot of that does come from our effort for it to match the era of the machine, for it to sort of match what you would expect from Led Zeppelin, but it does certainly deviate from kind of the style of their
00:50:50
Speaker
their record covers and everything from the time.
00:50:54
Speaker
But, uh, Dave Rudder, Dave, he pointed out, uh, captain fantastic as sort of a point of reference stylistically.
00:51:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:04
Speaker
So that was, uh, what I was keeping in mind with the groovy sort of character style that's happening on the back glass.
00:51:16
Speaker
And, um,
00:51:20
Speaker
I did that without any thought towards the play field.
00:51:25
Speaker
Um, it might've just been me putting it out of my mind or not knowing for sure whether that was something that I was going to be working on for him.
00:51:36
Speaker
I just focused strictly on the back glass to start.
00:51:40
Speaker
And, um, it's, it's worth mentioning that he gave me the most incredible, exhaustive details of,
00:51:50
Speaker
measurements and he has a friend Jeremy that is a designer that did an amazing job of creating a template for the play field based on Dave's measurements and if you go on the pin side and look at the Rotor Dave
00:52:11
Speaker
Led Zeppelin Valley 1976 thread.
00:52:16
Speaker
He did a really amazing job of documenting this entire process from, you know, start to finish, taking the old machine, stripping it down, showing the measurements on the backside of the glass, everything.
00:52:32
Speaker
It's amazing what he's done, paring it down and, and,
00:52:37
Speaker
his vision for building it back up into what it is now.
00:52:40
Speaker
My role in the whole thing was relatively easy.
00:52:44
Speaker
I had the benefit of a lot of time.
00:52:49
Speaker
I think that was one of the best things about this project was that there was really no deadline.
00:52:54
Speaker
But the fact that he gave me such great measurements and his friend Jeremy putting together that Illustrator file for the play field really gave me
00:53:07
Speaker
a foundation that I was able
Creative Collaboration on Pinball Art
00:53:10
Speaker
to run with.
00:53:10
Speaker
It took a little, little while to wrap my brain around it.
00:53:13
Speaker
I had to kind of just stare at it for a long time.
00:53:16
Speaker
And I'd say one of the hardest parts of the process was deciding what I could throw away from the original play field.
00:53:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:27
Speaker
Deciding, you know, what was critical to the gameplay, what shapes that had been sort of built into that artwork.
00:53:36
Speaker
which of those were kind of arbitrary or necessary.
00:53:39
Speaker
And I think that for me really was the hardest part and kind of had to just tinker with it for a while until it started to gel into something.
00:53:49
Speaker
David was super easy to please.
00:53:52
Speaker
So, so looking at the project, you said that he kind of gave you captain fantastic as a template along with the measurements and whatnot.
00:54:00
Speaker
Was he pretty much like, this is what I want now go.
00:54:03
Speaker
And you had kind of free range from there.
00:54:05
Speaker
totally yeah awesome and then the other question i have following up to that is did you end up doing re were you a led zeppelin fan and if not did you end up doing a lot of research to figure out what you wanted in there uh well yes to both i mean definitely like a hard rock metal guy um and led zeppelin is definitely close to my heart so i was
00:54:30
Speaker
confident kind of jumping at it from that angle and art for music is a big inspiration for me.
00:54:39
Speaker
So it wasn't a stretch whatsoever to work on it, but you know, diving into it, I did kind of start from the beginning in the catalog and really try to live in it for, for a while there.
00:54:51
Speaker
So if you're doing these, basically these homebrew passion projects, I mean, we've seen them before.
00:54:58
Speaker
We've seen there's a Minions thread.
00:55:01
Speaker
They're trying to do their own re-theme of the pinball machine.
00:55:05
Speaker
We've seen the Nightmare Before Christmas.
00:55:08
Speaker
We've also seen the Iron Maiden re-theme before Iron Maiden came out.
00:55:13
Speaker
So if someone's thinking of doing this, are there any sort of considerations?
00:55:19
Speaker
Licensing, being able to reproduce the art for a passion project, were there anything like that that limited what you could do?
00:55:29
Speaker
Well, we didn't really concern ourselves with the licensing, to be honest.
00:55:33
Speaker
It's completely...
00:55:35
Speaker
unofficial, there's no chance of reproducing it as a product.
00:55:40
Speaker
Well, right, but I'm wondering as in, is that if you're doing something for yourself with no intent of selling, is there any issues with you guys doing this project?
00:55:52
Speaker
Do you see what I'm saying?
00:55:53
Speaker
Like if Led Zeppelin said, well, they can't really do that.
00:55:57
Speaker
I don't know enough about licensing to know what is permissible and what is forbidden.
00:56:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I get you.
00:56:07
Speaker
I mean, it's definitely unofficial.
00:56:08
Speaker
It's not endorsed in any way or licensed, but it's not really something that we would worry about because we're not doing anything
Fan-Driven Pinball Projects
00:56:19
Speaker
for profit here.
00:56:19
Speaker
It's strictly a home collector fan treatment.
00:56:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:27
Speaker
I think it falls under like a fair use act or something like with no intent to, to sell that doesn't really matter if you, you can make whatever you want in your backyard.
00:56:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:36
Speaker
Well, sure.
00:56:38
Speaker
And the question is, is this a, is this a back glass or did you print it?
00:56:42
Speaker
Cause I know sometimes when you go to a printer, they will say, Oh, I can't really print that out because of licensing restraint.
00:56:52
Speaker
So, you know, is this a back glass?
00:56:54
Speaker
Is that a polycarbonate?
00:56:55
Speaker
Like that seems to be the biggest issue.
00:56:58
Speaker
Like for example, I'm a big rush fan and I would love to have a set of rush coasters just of all the albums.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:06
Speaker
But I think that I would run into issues if I just went to a shop and said, hey, I just want to make all these decals so I can stick them on whatever.
00:57:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying there.
00:57:18
Speaker
Yeah, probably the most troublesome element is that –
00:57:24
Speaker
We used the Led Zeppelin logo.
00:57:27
Speaker
We used the Bally logo.
00:57:30
Speaker
Because we wanted it to feel... It feels authentic.
00:57:34
Speaker
It feels like something that they would have made.
00:57:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:37
Speaker
You're trying to get it to be intrinsically cohesive.
00:57:43
Speaker
As in, if you walked into a bar in 1979, could you see...
00:57:49
Speaker
this being in the bar and i the the answer is yes this looks like something that they would make and it could sit next to captain fantastic without missing a beat and so you're trying to make sure that it fits that i don't know that back to the future test where if you went back in time could does would this fit in the era and you would have you would have to have the led zeppelin logo and you'd have to have the ballet logo
00:58:14
Speaker
Yeah, exactly right.
00:58:15
Speaker
And that was Dave's intention.
00:58:17
Speaker
He wants people to walk into his collection and see it and go.
00:58:21
Speaker
I didn't know that they made a... A Led Zeppelin?
00:58:23
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah, that was his intention from the very beginning.
00:58:29
Speaker
So we designed it around those parameters.
00:58:36
Speaker
It's kind of a detour from what you're asking, but I think one thing that really made...
00:58:43
Speaker
project feasible is that with it being an electromechanical and then you strip the art you're not having to concern yourself with the sound effects or the music or anything like that right it's your bells and chimes and i know he's working on rigging it up so that it plays a different song for each player
00:59:09
Speaker
but as far as having to re-theme the elements of the original game, you can do a whole lot more with an EM than you can with, you know, something current.
00:59:22
Speaker
Yeah, it certainly makes it more simple.
00:59:25
Speaker
Because you're right, you don't have the soundtrack element, but it would be cool if you could integrate it.
00:59:31
Speaker
Yeah, so he'll have it rigged up so that, you know, fire up a new game, it's, you know,
00:59:38
Speaker
I, I, in some ways that that's problematic though, because I know that there are people like I, again, I grew up on iron maiden.
00:59:48
Speaker
And so, yeah, that was actually, I've said, I've told the story before.
00:59:51
Speaker
That's my first concert that I snuck out to when I was 14 and I went to iron maiden.
00:59:55
Speaker
So the theme works fine for me and I would love having one in the house.
01:00:01
Speaker
However, I've heard of people saying, Hey, this isn't really my style of music and the music, uh,
01:00:08
Speaker
eventually detracts from their enjoyment, especially in a home environment, because they hear it over and over again, as opposed to once or twice a week at the bar.
01:00:20
Speaker
But I guess you could say that about any game that has music in it, right?
01:00:24
Speaker
No, absolutely.
01:00:25
Speaker
And I, that's why I think Jurassic Park made a very smart move in keeping the, the, the score, the soundtrack.
01:00:35
Speaker
It's that, that was what, what drove Star Wars as something that I thought, yes, this is something that as soon as you hear that John Williams score, it takes you into that, into that element.
01:00:47
Speaker
And if you don't have it, then yeah, I guess it's a fine line.
01:00:50
Speaker
You're always trying to find how much is enough and how much is too much.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:56
Speaker
Right.
01:00:56
Speaker
I haven't gotten to see a Jurassic park in person or play it yet, but I think that's great that it fires up the music right away and it gives you the animation of the chopper.
01:01:07
Speaker
Like it's dropping you off at the park.
01:01:10
Speaker
It's very immersive in that way.
01:01:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:12
Speaker
So looking at this artwork, what was your favorite part to work on?
01:01:18
Speaker
Well, let's see.
01:01:19
Speaker
Each character, you know, I did separately.
Artistic Elements in Pinball Design
01:01:25
Speaker
really enjoyed integrating the whole back glass together in sort of vaguely the shape of like a Marshall amp.
01:01:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:36
Speaker
Oh, that's cool.
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:37
Speaker
Cool.
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:38
Speaker
It's kind of just like a frame device to kind of tie it all together and reinforce the theme.
01:01:45
Speaker
I'm fond of that detail.
01:01:47
Speaker
And it was, it feels like it was much later that I ended up working on the play field.
01:01:54
Speaker
So they almost feel like separate projects for me entirely.
01:01:58
Speaker
And then the portrait art that we did for the plastics in the playfield, it's a little bit more realistically rendered, at least within the spectrum of my work.
01:02:11
Speaker
The back glass is a little more groovy, cartoony.
01:02:15
Speaker
And then I think the playfield art is a little maybe, I don't know, grittier looking.
01:02:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:26
Speaker
But I like all of those things.
01:02:27
Speaker
I feel like they're all fairly true to me and what I try to do from one project to another.
01:02:38
Speaker
Of course, all along the way, you're just trying to imagine like, man, it's going to be cool when this is all pieced together.
01:02:46
Speaker
I hope it looks really cool.
01:02:47
Speaker
And part of it
01:02:50
Speaker
working across the world from Dave, I had to just kind of imagine what he was planning to do when he put it all back together.
01:03:02
Speaker
There were certain design decisions that he had already settled on or he was kind of running
01:03:09
Speaker
running with on his own like uh he built his own stencils yeah i'm looking at those the side art yeah yeah the side art and then uh he did the the pop bumpers um he did those um so just the decision of you know the pops being white you know whereas in my original mock-up i did them black so it was kind of fun in that way to
01:03:35
Speaker
To get some little surprises, how it all got pieced back together.
01:03:40
Speaker
So besides this Led Zeppelin project, you've also worked on a couple of different pinball art projects that it looks like of your own.
01:03:50
Speaker
One being the Texas Pinball Festival poster of 2019.
01:03:55
Speaker
For the people that haven't seen this, it's like a blue hue, or it's a poster done in blue hues, but it's an alien abducting a pinball machine up into the sky.
01:04:06
Speaker
He tells kind of where some of the inspiration from that came from and how this even came about that you got asked to do it.
01:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
01:04:13
Speaker
Well, I should clarify, they didn't ask me to do it.
01:04:17
Speaker
It was totally a self-initiated project.
01:04:19
Speaker
I was working on a series of posters.
01:04:25
Speaker
I had done a treatment for an Addams Family tribute poster that I had at a gallery show out in LA at Gallery 1988.
01:04:36
Speaker
They do their annual Crazy for Cult.
01:04:41
Speaker
art show that is really popular and mostly it's movie themed but I wanted to sort of take advantage of that because I feel like the Addams Family pin sort of transcends the movie even yes I think I agree it's had more life so anyway I did that for that show and then I followed it up with Twilight Zone and then
01:05:04
Speaker
This was all just leading me towards Texas Pinball Festival, which is really just in my backyard.
01:05:12
Speaker
It's, I don't know, 25 minutes away.
01:05:15
Speaker
And so I was very excited to be a vendor for the first time.
01:05:19
Speaker
And I was getting a few different pieces together in that vein.
01:05:24
Speaker
And what the TPF poster started as was a tribute to Attack from Mars.
01:05:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:05:33
Speaker
But it started to kind of veer off into this, I don't know, this Western vibe.
01:05:39
Speaker
And it didn't really feel like Attack from Mars anymore.
01:05:43
Speaker
So I reached out to Ed Van Der Veen at TPF to see if it was okay if I used the name Texas Pinball Festival or TPF on the poster.
01:05:53
Speaker
And he was totally fine with it.
01:05:56
Speaker
He was all for it.
01:05:56
Speaker
He just said, hey, use our logo and maybe give us a handful of them.
01:06:01
Speaker
And that was...
01:06:02
Speaker
That was great.
01:06:02
Speaker
So I did that.
01:06:04
Speaker
And yeah, and those are all 3D, by the way, red and blue glasses.
01:06:08
Speaker
That's sort of my weird, goofy specialty.
01:06:13
Speaker
Well, that's what I was going to follow up with is why why 3D?
01:06:17
Speaker
Like, I don't know many artists out there that do 3D and that seems to be your specialty.
01:06:21
Speaker
What what made you gravitate towards 3D in the old style blue and red glasses?
01:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, it was just a weird curiosity.
01:06:31
Speaker
I've always liked art in the gallery context that extends off the wall in some way.
01:06:39
Speaker
I bought a painting in Santa Fe years ago that was built out in three dimensions and
01:06:46
Speaker
That sort of thing always just kind of trips me out and makes a piece more interesting.
01:06:51
Speaker
And I think, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago, I was working mostly in black and white.
01:06:57
Speaker
And it seemed like a logical conclusion, I guess, that if there are 3D comic books at one point in time,
01:07:08
Speaker
then I should be able to make my drawings work in 3D somehow.
01:07:12
Speaker
And it's been like, I don't know, nine years since then, and just a lot of trial and error.
01:07:21
Speaker
self-teaching and sort of taking on a life of its own.
01:07:25
Speaker
So do you put it through a program and actually, how does it work?
01:07:29
Speaker
How do you make something 3D?
01:07:31
Speaker
Because I've never, obviously when they did this in the 50s and, you know, the Cowboys and Indians stuff and when they had the, you
01:07:39
Speaker
know the take the back to the future thing again they had these 3d things how does that actually how do you do that uh i'm assuming there's a computer program now but they don't do that they didn't do that then and how do you do it well i don't know how they did it to be honest um i work digitally for the most part start to finish these days just for flexibility sake i like drawing on an ipad and
01:08:05
Speaker
working in Illustrator and Photoshop, and there's an app called Procreate.
01:08:10
Speaker
And the 3D element, as far as my work goes, is a lot of manually shifting lines and recoloring and selectively pushing things forward and backward in that way.
01:08:26
Speaker
So it's kind of a goofy thing, but I don't know if anyone is doing it the way that I do.
01:08:34
Speaker
you know, that's fine.
01:08:36
Speaker
I just like, I like the nostalgic interactive element.
01:08:40
Speaker
And when I go out on site, if I'm doing an art festival or an art show, it's just a fun way to get people engaging with the work.
01:08:52
Speaker
Would you ever consider doing a, that would be interesting to see a pinball machine retheme and actually put on the glasses.
01:08:59
Speaker
And have it have that 3D print job at the same time.
01:09:04
Speaker
That would be really interesting.
01:09:06
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
01:09:07
Speaker
I think that would definitely be interesting.
01:09:11
Speaker
I'd be curious to see how it would work with all the lights flashing at you and everything.
01:09:16
Speaker
That's true.
01:09:17
Speaker
It'd probably work better with an old EM that doesn't have the...
01:09:22
Speaker
you know, the pin stadium type lights in it that the modern games have.
01:09:27
Speaker
I think you're right.
01:09:28
Speaker
It's probably a retro.
01:09:29
Speaker
It would be a retro feel.
01:09:32
Speaker
Yeah, but it could still work.
01:09:33
Speaker
And I think what interests me in pinball as far as the graphics go is it,
01:09:42
Speaker
It's consistent with the way that I think, which is in 3D, but in flat layers, right?
01:09:51
Speaker
So like you've got your platics on the play field.
01:09:54
Speaker
They're flat, but they are elevated.
01:09:57
Speaker
So you've got the third dimension to it.
01:10:00
Speaker
And like, I don't know, medieval madness comes to mind.
01:10:05
Speaker
Like the archers down on the slings or on the outlanes.
01:10:12
Speaker
They're printed on the transparent plastic, and so it looks like they're standing in front of that piece of hardware.
01:10:22
Speaker
I think there's some cool 3D, like physically 3D stuff that could be done there in more of a capacity than it's done today.
01:10:35
Speaker
But that's just a curiosity.
01:10:37
Speaker
I'd have to kind of tinker with it and see.
Re-theming Pinball Machines
01:10:40
Speaker
So if you had, if someone came to you and said, I want you to re-theme a pinball machine, or, hey, maybe Stern or Jersey Jack or one of the indies call you, what would be some of your dream themes that you would like to do?
01:10:57
Speaker
Shaun of the Dead.
01:10:58
Speaker
Shaun of the Dead?
01:11:00
Speaker
Yeah, Shaun of the Dead.
01:11:02
Speaker
I would buy that.
01:11:05
Speaker
I think, I mean, games these days have so many different modes, but I think I love that movie and there's objectives throughout it, right?
01:11:15
Speaker
Like you've got to go pick up Liz, you've got to kill Philip.
01:11:19
Speaker
You know, they got the jukebox at the end.
01:11:21
Speaker
You got to kill the queen, you know?
01:11:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:25
Speaker
I think my favorite is that his entire goal is to do exactly what he did at the very beginning where they said, what are you going to do?
01:11:33
Speaker
We're going to go, go to the pub, wait for the end of the world.
01:11:36
Speaker
And that's exactly what they did in the movie.
01:11:39
Speaker
Wait for all this to blow over.
01:11:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:44
Speaker
That could even be your wizard mode, waiting for it to blow over.
01:11:47
Speaker
Yeah, waiting for it to blow over.
01:11:48
Speaker
Also, his friend turns into a zombie too.
01:11:51
Speaker
Spoiler alert, yeah.
01:11:55
Speaker
Actually, I would, you know, that's a funny theme, but I would consider Hot Fuzz because I think that is hilarious.
01:12:05
Speaker
That is by far my favorite of his movies.
01:12:10
Speaker
Yeah, they're all great.
01:12:11
Speaker
I've actually only seen The World's End once.
01:12:14
Speaker
I've been meaning to go back and watch it again because I've seen the others, you know, a dozen times.
01:12:20
Speaker
What do you have on the future coming up?
01:12:24
Speaker
Uh, well, let's see.
01:12:26
Speaker
Pinball Life has their, like, annual open house.
01:12:29
Speaker
I did their t-shirt design for that.
01:12:32
Speaker
Um, I think that's all sold out, but it's coming up pretty soon.
01:12:37
Speaker
And then, um, I've been working with Jason at Pinhead.
01:12:43
Speaker
Um, it's an Australian brand, like an apparel brand that's all pinball themed.
01:12:50
Speaker
Um, Pinhead Australia on
01:12:55
Speaker
Instagram.
01:12:55
Speaker
That's where I follow them, but they're also on pinhead.com.au.
01:13:02
Speaker
So there's some cool designs that we have that are coming out very soon there.
01:13:05
Speaker
And then, I don't know, kind of excited about the future of pinball and hopefully, you know, staying active in
01:13:20
Speaker
in that space i'm trying to get more involved just in the local community here um going to like league nights and stuff like that i mostly i feel like i would be uh like a home use player but i don't own any machines so i need to make more of an effort to actually get out and
01:13:41
Speaker
engage with the other people that are playing on location a little more because i'm still sort of like a solo player for the most part yeah yeah the the nice thing is if you have a location that keeps the games in good repair that's always been the challenge of location games is that half of them have been uh ridden so hard that they you know if if you it would be like finding a car with with two and a half wheels and a steering wheel is broken
01:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, and it's pretty clear sometimes if the location owns the machines themselves or if they have an operator.
01:14:20
Speaker
Because we have... There's a place here called Bishop Cider Cade.
01:14:25
Speaker
It's Bishop Cider Company.
01:14:27
Speaker
They make hard ciders.
01:14:28
Speaker
They're really quite good.
01:14:31
Speaker
But they turned the front end of the brewery into this
01:14:34
Speaker
amazing free play arcade and they've got it kind of changes numbers from time to time but I think they have somewhere in the 20 to 30 pin range and they're all in tip top shape there's always somebody there working on them they're always getting the newest limited editions that's a really great place for me to go play but
01:15:03
Speaker
More often than going to like a local, a local joint that's maybe in slightly less high repair.
01:15:14
Speaker
I don't know if I caught this and you, you may have said this earlier, but how long have you been into pinball?
01:15:20
Speaker
Well, I would say I've always loved it since I was a kid, but it's really been the last couple of years that I've started learning a lot more about it and keeping up with it.
01:15:33
Speaker
Okay.
01:15:34
Speaker
So it's kind of an exciting time for me because I think I came back into it at the right time.
01:15:40
Speaker
The industry is certainly on an upswing.
01:15:44
Speaker
There's always new pins coming out and always new opinions about it.
01:15:49
Speaker
Even if I can't run out and see it or play it myself, I can listen to folks like yourself talk about it or I can get on pin side and
01:16:01
Speaker
It's a good time to be into it.
01:16:03
Speaker
It really is.
01:16:06
Speaker
Speaking, you're getting out more in the local scene and whatnot.
01:16:08
Speaker
What is the game if you hit the bar or whatever place you go, you see that one pinball machine, you've got to play it.
01:16:15
Speaker
What is your addiction right now?
01:16:17
Speaker
What's your theme or your title that you can't get enough of?
01:16:22
Speaker
Well, it was TNA.
01:16:24
Speaker
at Cidercade, but it's not there currently.
01:16:27
Speaker
I need to drive a little further out to a place that does have it that I haven't been to yet.
01:16:33
Speaker
But the joint that's down the street from me, they've got a pretty decent selection of some of the 90s classics and then some of the newer Stearns.
01:16:45
Speaker
So when I go there, I pretty much go straight to Medieval Madness, Metallica, Guardians,
01:16:54
Speaker
or Iron Maiden.
01:16:59
Speaker
At this stage, I'm really just trying to work on my flipper skills and stuff.
01:17:03
Speaker
I'm not putting up very good cores.
01:17:06
Speaker
You know, when I first got into the hobby, I feel like I still feel this way today is I did get in and I was like, crap, I need to work on my flipper skills.
01:17:14
Speaker
I want to get more competitive.
01:17:16
Speaker
I've learned over time, though.
01:17:17
Speaker
I just I enjoy playing the machine to experience the machine.
01:17:22
Speaker
I know a lot of people are like, oh, we need it competitive.
01:17:24
Speaker
We need the depth we need.
01:17:26
Speaker
And and I did just recently play Jurassic Park and I love the depth and I wanted to keep exploring it.
01:17:31
Speaker
But that's that's the thing I love about pinball.
01:17:33
Speaker
is that it always feels like there's a nook and cranny of the code on the play field that you can explore.
01:17:38
Speaker
And so I don't know.
01:17:40
Speaker
That's how I enjoy it.
01:17:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:42
Speaker
But yeah, man, that's, it's always more fun if you're better though.
01:17:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:49
Speaker
Well, I, yeah, I think for me with the, the flipper skills, part of it is just getting better with my aim, you know, to where I can be purposeful with, um,
01:18:00
Speaker
with the modes and the shots because a lot of times it still feels pretty haphazard yeah well there's nothing more frustrating than trying to you get a mode started on a game that you have to you have to complete the mode and it's like shoot the left orbit and you cannot hit the left orbit to save your life yeah it's kind of embarrassing like you feel like that should be a given that you can hit the left orbit
01:18:24
Speaker
Well, if your skills are to the level where you're always playing rescue ball or you're always out of control, then that's not fun either.
01:18:33
Speaker
So, you know, that's how my kids play.
01:18:35
Speaker
My kids just keep hitting the buttons until the ball drains.
01:18:41
Speaker
And so, yeah, it's certainly more fun when, you know, if you can take a laser shot and say, I want to hit that, it makes it a lot more fun.
01:18:48
Speaker
See, that's why I always recommend South Park to everyone, because the gobble holes on that thing are the size of your fist.
01:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, you feel like a pinball god playing South Park, but then you want to destroy your own world because you walk away after ball two.
01:19:03
Speaker
Yeah, I've been wanting to get back out.
01:19:06
Speaker
I love South Park.
01:19:08
Speaker
I've been binging it from the beginning.
01:19:11
Speaker
And as far as I know, there isn't a South Park machine really close to me.
01:19:17
Speaker
It's so not worth it.
01:19:22
Speaker
Yeah, it is hot garbage.
01:19:24
Speaker
It is so bad.
01:19:25
Speaker
I'm not kidding.
01:19:27
Speaker
I think I was playing it.
01:19:28
Speaker
It was the first time I played it.
01:19:30
Speaker
And after Ball 2, I was like, I am so bored of this game.
01:19:32
Speaker
I walked away.
01:19:33
Speaker
Oh, but the fart sounds.
01:19:35
Speaker
Come on.
01:19:36
Speaker
I know.
01:19:36
Speaker
I know.
01:19:37
Speaker
You want to get Mr. Hankey out of the toilet, though.
01:19:40
Speaker
Yes.
01:19:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:42
Speaker
I appreciate the intelligence and the genius of South Park.
01:19:46
Speaker
I will say it's just not my type of... There are some episodes that I find very funny, and there's a lot of times where I'm like, this is just over the top.
01:19:55
Speaker
This is too much.
01:19:56
Speaker
I'm going to bed.
01:19:58
Speaker
A little too much, yeah.
01:19:59
Speaker
You can tell how old that game is because the show has come a really long way from the pieces that are in the game.
01:20:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:08
Speaker
No, it's true.
01:20:09
Speaker
I mean, it's, hey, they are creative geniuses.
01:20:11
Speaker
I totally get it.
01:20:14
Speaker
I just haven't been able to watch it that much.
01:20:18
Speaker
Well, Brad, I'm going to talk you up for a second, man.
01:20:22
Speaker
These posters are freaking awesome.
01:20:24
Speaker
You sent me the Twilight Zone 1, and we got it here, and my kid put on the red and blue glasses.
01:20:32
Speaker
And it's funny because he just stared at the poster, I swear, 10, 15 minutes.
01:20:36
Speaker
And then he starts walking around the room to see if everything else is in 3D.
01:20:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:42
Speaker
What if the world were in 3D?
01:20:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:46
Speaker
So I'm going to tell the listeners right now, you've got to go to Brad's website.
01:20:51
Speaker
What is that website, Brad?
01:20:53
Speaker
Yeah, there's a few different URLs.
01:20:55
Speaker
They all go to the same place.
01:20:56
Speaker
BradAlbright.com, AlbrightIllustration.com, OldSchool3D.com.
01:21:03
Speaker
It's all the same stuff.
01:21:05
Speaker
And then at Brad Albright on Instagram, you can see a lot of things there, work in progress and whatnot.
01:21:12
Speaker
And then Facebook.
01:21:15
Speaker
Albright illustration is the page where I dump stuff like that.
01:21:19
Speaker
You gotta go to these websites, guys.
01:21:21
Speaker
These posters are awesome.
01:21:23
Speaker
And I noticed the one that you sent to me is limited.
01:21:26
Speaker
So is there only limited run of these, Adam's Family and Twilight Zones and all the other posters you do?
01:21:31
Speaker
Yeah, so I do my posters in 16x20 size.
01:21:36
Speaker
That's just my standard.
01:21:37
Speaker
And I always do the biggest size as the signed... Well, they're all signed, but...
01:21:44
Speaker
they all uh it's in a numbered edition and uh yeah i i like everything to be an easily framed size so i try to keep them in sizes where you can just go buy a frame off the shelf um some people have asked me about the led zeppelin artwork in prints and i've i've sent a couple of them out the caveat that i have
01:22:10
Speaker
is that the back glass works great as a normal size poster, but then the play field ends up being this kind of goofy size where you'd have to get a custom frame made, which is fine for a lot of people.
01:22:23
Speaker
They don't mind doing that.
01:22:25
Speaker
But that was kind of an aside.
01:22:30
Speaker
You were asking about the limited editions, I guess.
01:22:33
Speaker
Dude, these are great.
01:22:35
Speaker
They're fantastic.
01:22:35
Speaker
So like I said, everyone that's listening, at least go take a look.
01:22:40
Speaker
Brad had mentioned to me, he's like, well, take the glasses and you can actually look at my website and see stuff in 3D.
01:22:46
Speaker
And the wonderful part about these posters too is you don't even need the 3D glasses.
01:22:51
Speaker
Because I know some of that older stuff, you look at it and it looks like someone had smoked something and it didn't make any sense until you put the glasses on.
01:22:58
Speaker
These stand by themselves.
01:22:59
Speaker
They look great in the collection up on your wall next to your pinball machine.
01:23:02
Speaker
They look fantastic.
01:23:03
Speaker
Yes, thank you.
01:23:04
Speaker
That's something that I'm very conscious of when I'm working.
01:23:08
Speaker
I don't like the old style in the cases where that red and blue distortion is so extreme that you just can't even look at it.
01:23:18
Speaker
I know that people aren't going to just have their glasses at all times, and you don't want to have to look at it that way all the time.
01:23:25
Speaker
So I try to find a happy medium.
01:23:28
Speaker
So if you want to make that game room look all nice, you better go hit up Brad, man.
01:23:33
Speaker
This is the stuff.
01:23:35
Speaker
Thank you.
01:23:36
Speaker
Oh, and I'll be at Houston Arcade Expo in November.
Upcoming Pinball Events
01:23:40
Speaker
Cool.
01:23:40
Speaker
Almost forgot to mention that.
01:23:42
Speaker
Houston Arcade, and then you're playing on TPF in March, correct?
01:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
01:23:47
Speaker
TPF in March.
01:23:50
Speaker
Part of my journey this past year, year and a half, has been
01:23:55
Speaker
At first I was doing any and every show I could go do anywhere to get in front of people.
01:24:01
Speaker
And then this year it's been a lot more selective.
01:24:05
Speaker
And I just, I really enjoy this community specifically.
01:24:10
Speaker
And I think the more kind of focused events like this that I can find the better.
01:24:16
Speaker
So, you know, I don't know, two years from now, maybe I'll be driving up to Chicago.
01:24:20
Speaker
Who knows?
01:24:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:22
Speaker
Cool, man.
01:24:22
Speaker
We appreciate you coming on and taking the time out of your super busy schedule to hang out with us.
01:24:29
Speaker
We hope everything goes great.
01:24:30
Speaker
And yeah, man, thanks for coming on.
01:24:33
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:24:33
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
01:24:35
Speaker
I'll continue repping the podcast at the dog park with my hat.
01:24:40
Speaker
Awesome.
01:24:40
Speaker
Perfect.
01:24:41
Speaker
Yeah, thanks, Brad.
01:24:42
Speaker
We'll see you down in Texas next year.
01:24:43
Speaker
All right.
01:24:44
Speaker
Thanks, guys.
01:24:45
Speaker
All right, Scott.
01:24:46
Speaker
That was fantastic.
01:24:47
Speaker
What did you think?
01:24:48
Speaker
What stood out to you between the two interviews?
01:24:50
Speaker
you know it's it's interesting how
01:24:54
Speaker
if you can find your little piece of the pod of the pinball community, because there's so many different places you can go, you can be a home collector.
01:25:05
Speaker
You can just be a casual player.
01:25:07
Speaker
You can be a, you know, you can be an enthusiast.
01:25:10
Speaker
You can be someone who listens to, to pinball podcast.
01:25:13
Speaker
You can be someone who goes to turn.
01:25:15
Speaker
There's so many different areas and people it it's,
01:25:21
Speaker
always amazing to me how many different ways people can contribute in this community that I'm still finding more ways that people are connected.
01:25:34
Speaker
I agree.
01:25:34
Speaker
And it's awesome that something as simple as, you know, Brad talked about, he heard Roto Dave on Head to Head.
01:25:44
Speaker
And that's how they started to collaborate.
01:25:48
Speaker
It's awesome that we live in a hobby where you can kind of reach out like that.
01:25:52
Speaker
Well, if you look at it for Magic Girl, the bright spot about having Magic Girl is that it introduced us to new artists.
01:26:05
Speaker
And it was a new way of getting people into it.
01:26:08
Speaker
And so if Zombie Yeti does Magic Girl, which really never got made and who knows, may get made in the future.
01:26:15
Speaker
However, the pinball community said, wow, that guy's really good at doing that.
01:26:20
Speaker
You should bring him in.
01:26:22
Speaker
And that certainly transformed him into a different, you know, it opened up different avenues.
01:26:30
Speaker
And so even a bad story can be spun into a positive story too.
01:26:35
Speaker
I'm glad we got those guys on, especially with, you know, we've been talking about Clear Coat for a month and a half now.
01:26:40
Speaker
It feels like it won't go away.
01:26:42
Speaker
And so we figured, why not?
Discussion on Pinball Restoration and Manufacturing
01:26:43
Speaker
Well, let's get someone on who deals with Clear Coat every stinking day.
01:26:46
Speaker
And so it was awesome to have Chris on as well.
01:26:49
Speaker
Well, it's amazing because obviously what Chris does is he is a...
01:26:55
Speaker
reason why it's high-end pins because he is a high-end restore uh restorer that's what he does it is it is reassembling a rolls royce you know bit by bit by one person and so it's it is he admitted it's a different process than mass producing something and so something that he can do for a clear coat it can be completely different than how they're using the clear coats and everything else
01:27:22
Speaker
And so there certainly are challenges with scalability of manufacturing.
01:27:29
Speaker
And so obviously they're still trying to dial it in.
01:27:35
Speaker
And the good news is that at least the manufacturers seem to acknowledge there's an issue and they are trying to deal with it because they don't want to send out a product that's a problem either.
01:27:46
Speaker
Well, and the wonderful part, you know, the shiny light, like you said, manufacturers are taking care of the issue at hand.
01:27:54
Speaker
If you listen to the most recent Slam Tilt podcast, they were talking about this.
01:27:59
Speaker
They've had issues in the past.
01:28:01
Speaker
What do they do?
01:28:01
Speaker
They contact Stern.
01:28:02
Speaker
Stern takes care of them.
01:28:04
Speaker
I know our friend Tommy over at this flipping podcast.
01:28:08
Speaker
He's already had issues with his Jurassic Park.
01:28:09
Speaker
He had issues with his Iron Maiden.
01:28:11
Speaker
But you know what?
01:28:12
Speaker
He reaches out to Stern.
01:28:13
Speaker
It might take a little bit, but they take care of him.
01:28:16
Speaker
And it's good to see also that Jersey Jack is stepping up to the plate and helping with the Willy Wonka stuff as well.
01:28:22
Speaker
So, yeah, it seems that all that we've talked about before, judge a manufacturer by their customer support.
01:28:29
Speaker
And it's not just the vocal minority who are screaming on Penn side because we really know one side of the story.
01:28:37
Speaker
We don't know both sides of the story.
01:28:39
Speaker
But every time my experience, when I've sent in something for Stern or I've sent in something for Jersey Jack or I've even sent in something for Chicago Gaming Company, I've always found a satisfactory response.
01:28:52
Speaker
And so if you're going to buy a product, buy someone who can stand behind their product.
01:28:58
Speaker
You're never going to have a perfect product.
01:29:00
Speaker
That's not realistic.
01:29:04
Speaker
And so as long as there are issues that they will try to resolve, then you're still winning.
01:29:10
Speaker
And you know what?
01:29:11
Speaker
Speaking of all this, I want to transition really quickly.
01:29:17
Speaker
I think you owe Stern an apology really quick.
01:29:20
Speaker
Me?
01:29:20
Speaker
I owe Stern an apology.
01:29:21
Speaker
Why is that?
01:29:22
Speaker
Yes, because they finally took your advice and we never acknowledged it.
01:29:27
Speaker
Okay, what is that?
01:29:29
Speaker
Now I'm curious.
01:29:31
Speaker
The advice is...
01:29:32
Speaker
showcase your pinball machine at the major events.
01:29:36
Speaker
What they've been doing recently is they showcase Jurassic Park, what, two weeks before Pinberg?
01:29:42
Speaker
Yep.
01:29:44
Speaker
That's a major event.
01:29:45
Speaker
Well, they've owned the show.
01:29:47
Speaker
Yeah, you're right.
01:29:49
Speaker
The rant that I did,
01:29:50
Speaker
Way back in the day when, and I do understand why they did it, and I may have been a little hyperbolic.
01:29:58
Speaker
They wanted to give Munsters because they had the two living Munsters actors.
01:30:06
Speaker
They had them there, and I think they didn't want to steal the spotlight from that.
01:30:10
Speaker
But yes, I appreciate that.
01:30:13
Speaker
Man, be the big dog.
01:30:16
Speaker
I want them to.
01:30:17
Speaker
And yes, actually, ever since that Dark Knight for Stern post, Stern has been really amazing about what they've done.
01:30:27
Speaker
And I don't know if it's bringing Zach on board and revamping their PR.
01:30:33
Speaker
I will also I will acknowledge, too, that Jersey Jack has upped their game, too.
01:30:40
Speaker
And so it's a good thing that they're all trying to become more of a well-oiled machine.
01:30:49
Speaker
Yep.
Elvira-themed Pinball Machine Release
01:30:50
Speaker
Well, and that brings me to my next point, though, too, is we have one of the biggest pinball shows coming up, Pinball Expo, coming up here in the middle of October.
01:31:00
Speaker
And guess what just happened?
01:31:02
Speaker
And Elvira drops.
01:31:04
Speaker
Elvira drops.
01:31:06
Speaker
We're a month away, and this thing is probably going to be primed and ready and setting down at Pinball Expo for hundreds of thousands of people to play.
01:31:17
Speaker
It's an awesome time, and especially I think it's smart for them to do it before a show because then you get the game there.
01:31:24
Speaker
They can work some of the kinks.
01:31:26
Speaker
You don't get the whole...
01:31:28
Speaker
crappy photos from back behind the... Yeah, you don't get the leaked photos from the promo orientation.
01:31:36
Speaker
I'm sure that they did a week before that someone's taking a screenshot and sending it out.
01:31:41
Speaker
Yeah, so this is done right.
01:31:43
Speaker
And I appreciate that while we still have leaks and still have rumors of games, they seem to be a lot faster at, hey, you want information?
01:31:55
Speaker
We're going to get you information.
01:31:58
Speaker
So, yeah, it's been great.
01:32:01
Speaker
And I respect how challenging it is for them to... PR is a hard job.
01:32:09
Speaker
And if you haven't tried it, then you don't understand how difficult it is, especially when you're trying to get to control the message, to be able to manufacture a machine or to develop a machine and get it all ready and release it at the right time.
01:32:27
Speaker
That is so hard.
01:32:28
Speaker
And so I have nothing but sympathy for them trying to do it the right way.
01:32:33
Speaker
However, they've also done an amazing job of releasing high-res pictures, doing a gameplay.
01:32:40
Speaker
And so you're able to get once it gets close enough that the inevitable leaks will come out, you know that the official release is coming very soon.
01:32:50
Speaker
And you're going to don't even bother with all the grainy, you know, the grainy washed out pictures.
01:32:56
Speaker
Just wait a week and you'll see the good ones.
01:32:59
Speaker
So I got to ask you, what are your first impressions of Elvira?
01:33:05
Speaker
You know, Elvira's tough.
01:33:11
Speaker
In today's day and age, when you're taking a character that we all, I'm not going to rehash the history of pinball.
01:33:20
Speaker
And is it okay to be sexy in 2019?
01:33:24
Speaker
And I don't know what the answer is.
01:33:27
Speaker
I think it's such, it generates such challenging feelings in so many people.
01:33:35
Speaker
And I'm not saying appropriate, inappropriate.
01:33:39
Speaker
What I am saying is that
01:33:41
Speaker
It's a challenging topic.
01:33:43
Speaker
Now, the good news is, is Cassandra's always been very gracious.
01:33:47
Speaker
She's always been very embraced by the pinball community.
01:33:50
Speaker
And so if there is any theme that even remotely has, you know, a sexy component or an attractive component, I'm not sure exactly how you want to label it.
01:34:02
Speaker
I think that she is the one that can pull it off.
01:34:06
Speaker
And so I'm glad that there is a figure in pinball that can pretty universally say, hey, you know what, this is fun.
01:34:20
Speaker
Let's get back to the fun in pinball.
01:34:23
Speaker
And even a theme that could be challenging, we can still all just agree there's a level of fun that she's bringing to it.
01:34:32
Speaker
And so I I appreciate this, that there seems to be less drama associated with it.
01:34:40
Speaker
I'm actually surprised that there's less drama, but I'm also relieved that there's less drama.
01:34:46
Speaker
Well, and I think our friends Martin and Joe over at Head to Head had a pretty good discussion of where is the line drawn?
01:34:53
Speaker
They kind of discussed like Woe Nelly versus Elvira.
01:34:58
Speaker
It's because Elvira is a strong figure type and she's the one that's telling the joke.
01:35:04
Speaker
She's the one that's... And so it is interesting to think in that point.
01:35:10
Speaker
I was wondering because I came home yesterday or the day before and my wife was watching Dukes of Hazzard.
01:35:16
Speaker
I thought, I wonder if you could do like a Dukes of Hazard pinball machine from that perspective of Daisy Duke.
01:35:22
Speaker
I mean, she does wear some skimpier clothes and whatnot, but she is a strong, powerful woman, and she is portrayed as that.
01:35:30
Speaker
She can stand on her own two feet, and if a boy slaps her on the butt at the bar, she kicks him on his back and sticks her foot on his throat.
01:35:38
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:35:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:35:39
Speaker
So I just don't know.
01:35:41
Speaker
But putting that aside, because I don't think we'll ever figure out that Rubik's Cube.
01:35:46
Speaker
No.
01:35:46
Speaker
No.
01:35:47
Speaker
Putting that aside, I am pleasantly surprised with this.
01:35:52
Speaker
I know that people have said it's just a basic family out.
01:35:56
Speaker
I don't mind basic family out.
01:35:58
Speaker
I don't think that's a big issue.
01:36:00
Speaker
I think it's wise the amount of toys that are in here.
01:36:03
Speaker
I think the toys, if they're done properly, which the video that did like a full in-depth three and a half minute of what all the toys did, I think if they work great, then awesome.
01:36:16
Speaker
Because that's the thing with me.
01:36:18
Speaker
I'm not...
01:36:19
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
01:36:20
Speaker
I love Lyman with Batman 66.
01:36:22
Speaker
I love the code.
01:36:23
Speaker
I do not like the play field.
01:36:25
Speaker
It's just, it feels clunky to me.
01:36:26
Speaker
I hate that the Riddler's hole rejects.
01:36:28
Speaker
I don't like the turntable.
01:36:30
Speaker
It's just, it's not my cup of tea.
01:36:33
Speaker
And so when something is as beautifully in depth as Batman 66 is stuck at that price range of 7,500 or higher because of a turntable, it just makes me shake my head.
01:36:47
Speaker
Now, the flip side of that coin, you look at Elvira, and it's stuck at 75 or higher because of all the toys in it.
01:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's a basic fan layout, but that haunted house is cool.
01:36:57
Speaker
The top of the house spinning.
01:36:58
Speaker
You got the gargoyles.
01:37:00
Speaker
You've got the crypt, which I thought was really cool.
01:37:02
Speaker
I don't know if that's been done yet, where...
01:37:06
Speaker
there's maybe South Park where we were talking about.
01:37:08
Speaker
The crypt, I don't know if you've seen this, is actually in the ramp.
01:37:13
Speaker
And so you shoot up the ramp and as it comes down, if lock is lit, it will go, the coffin top will open up
01:37:21
Speaker
The ball goes in, the coffin top goes down.
01:37:24
Speaker
If it's not lit, the ball just rolls right over the top of the coffin and keeps on playing.
01:37:28
Speaker
I don't think we've seen much of that.
01:37:30
Speaker
And that's really cool to me.
01:37:31
Speaker
So I was going to say, I just think the price point is deserved on this one.
01:37:34
Speaker
And it achieves that price point, in my opinion.
01:37:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's basically Lord of the Rings is a basic fan layout.
01:37:44
Speaker
They used diverters and they used clever ways to maximize the fan layout and give it variety, which is really what this has done.
01:37:54
Speaker
So I'm reserving judgment until I play it.
01:37:58
Speaker
I think that you can't have a theme that fits everywhere.
01:38:03
Speaker
I think that this theme will fit the genre and the homes that it's going to fit in.
01:38:11
Speaker
and it will fit in very well in many bar elements.
01:38:17
Speaker
The price point is challenging because usually location pins are geared toward the pro version.
01:38:25
Speaker
So I understand that that can be challenging.
01:38:29
Speaker
In Utah, I'm not sure
01:38:33
Speaker
I'll be playing one anytime soon.
01:38:36
Speaker
I only know of one Batman 66 here, and so I'm not sure if someone will be buying it.
01:38:42
Speaker
I know there are people who are big fans of it, and I hope to play it, but I really want to get my hands on it.
01:38:48
Speaker
The price is... it's a challenge, because if you're looking at a premium Elvira versus a premium Jurassic Park,
01:38:59
Speaker
i'm not you would have to really be in love with the theme or the flow the denis nordenman flow uh versus what the new hot game out there which is jurassic park right now i'm ready to see one like you said though we probably won't see one here in utah anytime soon but i do want to play this i think it looks really fun i actually enjoyed scare stiff i know a lot of people say it's a kind of shallow when it comes to gameplay um
01:39:24
Speaker
But one of the other complaints, too, is that there's not enough.
01:39:30
Speaker
Not enough.
01:39:31
Speaker
What's the crap?
01:39:32
Speaker
The quotes and stuff get really repetitious.
01:39:34
Speaker
They do.
01:39:35
Speaker
They said when they released House of Horrors, they have like 30 different games or 30 different movies they're pulling from.
01:39:44
Speaker
Plus.
01:39:45
Speaker
And so they'll have plenty of stuff to work with.
01:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, and that's likely where the price point is.
01:39:52
Speaker
You're paying more because perhaps it's a premium game with a premium code set.
01:40:00
Speaker
It seems like Lyman is going to be doing these premium encyclopedic code sets.
01:40:07
Speaker
which I think caters to a crowd.
01:40:10
Speaker
And if you are willing to spend the extra $300 or $400 for what is likely a home game anyway, then I think you'll get that.
01:40:20
Speaker
And I've said it before, it's wise of Stern to have different markets that they're catering to.
01:40:29
Speaker
So I think this is a big win for them.
01:40:35
Speaker
I don't know how many they'll produce because I think the theme is limited to which locations it'll go into and which homes it'll go into.
01:40:44
Speaker
However, I am very grateful that this is, it seems to be embraced by the pinball community on all levels.
01:40:54
Speaker
So I like this new, this Namaste Kumbaya that we're going through right now.
01:41:01
Speaker
Well, and speaking of the amount that they sell, our distributor, we go through Game Exchange out of Colorado.
01:41:08
Speaker
When we spoke to JJ, it wasn't even two hours after this thing had been released to the public, and he said his limited editions were almost all gone.
01:41:17
Speaker
Yeah, and that's...
01:41:19
Speaker
They're only selling 400 of the limited editions.
01:41:21
Speaker
There's not a specific number on the Super LEs that we've heard.
01:41:25
Speaker
You probably have to contact whoever.
01:41:27
Speaker
But the exclusivity through Fan Club is not true.
01:41:31
Speaker
There are some of the very, very small amounts of the Super LEs at distributors.
01:41:35
Speaker
So just call your distributor.
01:41:36
Speaker
Say, hey...
01:41:37
Speaker
Do you have a super early available?
01:41:39
Speaker
But honestly, I think this could be an evergreen title for Stern.
01:41:42
Speaker
I see that the these the premium level selling for a while now, as long as as long as it comes out of the gates and everyone's loving it.
01:41:50
Speaker
You know, it could be.
01:41:52
Speaker
They'll certainly make their as Steve Ritchie said in his pinball seminar.
01:41:58
Speaker
Hi, I'm Steve Ritchie and I sell pinball machines.
01:42:01
Speaker
that's stern right stern is there to sell pinball machines and if you can still sell it they will make it how many i think they're still making metallica premiums so you know that you're you're still going to why not if you can if you can produce 50 at a time and with the manufacturing process it makes it very customizable that you can
01:42:26
Speaker
but put a few on the line and do it.
01:42:28
Speaker
So it's a smart move.
01:42:32
Speaker
I'm excited to play it and I'm excited to experience the rule set.
01:42:37
Speaker
Well, my other opinion of this too is I think we'll see a game like this every year or every other year where it's exclusively Lyman Sheets as a code because Lyman's proved that his pins are journey pins that have a lot of depth to them.
01:42:54
Speaker
And then they're able to attain a higher price point.
01:42:57
Speaker
So I think these pins are specifically geared to compete with Jersey Jack because Jersey Jack has a lot of depth to their pinball machines, right?
01:43:05
Speaker
They're the...
01:43:06
Speaker
They come into your home.
01:43:07
Speaker
They stay there because, I mean, Wizard of Oz just – It's an encyclopedic rule set.
01:43:12
Speaker
That's the bottom line.
01:43:12
Speaker
Correct.
01:43:14
Speaker
It's an extra level of rules that other games are good, but they don't have – but you're right.
01:43:21
Speaker
You're not going to get to that level on a location environment.
01:43:25
Speaker
It has to be a home environment.
01:43:28
Speaker
And so I think this is where the whole all stern is pinball everything comes in.
01:43:34
Speaker
It's a pinball lifestyle.
01:43:35
Speaker
It's a lifestyle brand, right?
Challenges in Pinball Public Relations
01:43:37
Speaker
So I think that wraps it up for Elvira.
01:43:39
Speaker
We're just excited to get some hands on it, see how it plays.
01:43:43
Speaker
I think it's a home run if it plays smooth as butter.
01:43:48
Speaker
I mean, you can't go wrong with Lyman code.
01:43:51
Speaker
You really can't.
01:43:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think of the last Lyman code that was bad.
01:43:55
Speaker
It just doesn't exist.
01:43:58
Speaker
It doesn't.
01:44:01
Speaker
Ghostbuster Code just came out.
01:44:02
Speaker
Dead Flip premiered it with Dwight yesterday.
01:44:05
Speaker
It looks really good.
01:44:06
Speaker
RU God is actually now in the pinball machine.
01:44:09
Speaker
So that insert that everyone's like, this isn't used.
01:44:12
Speaker
It's finally being used.
01:44:14
Speaker
And so I think everyone's really excited about this one.
01:44:17
Speaker
I think even though the layout could be a little clunky and airball-y, I think
01:44:22
Speaker
with the mods that have come out to help with the flipper gap, to help with the air balls.
01:44:28
Speaker
I think if you mod this the right way and with this new code, it could be a keeper for the collection.
01:44:34
Speaker
It could be.
01:44:35
Speaker
The theme is great.
01:44:36
Speaker
The art is great.
01:44:40
Speaker
I still prefer the flow of different games, and so I would lean toward other ones.
01:44:45
Speaker
But you know what?
01:44:46
Speaker
Whoever kept their Ghostbusters at their home waiting for that code, now is your day.
Ghostbusters Update and Public Excitement
01:44:55
Speaker
Go download it.
01:44:56
Speaker
Go try it out.
01:44:57
Speaker
Send us feedback.
01:44:58
Speaker
Tell us what you think.
01:45:00
Speaker
Yeah, I want to hear about it because and I also want to hear if you have put in the center post that into your game, the one that you don't have to actually drill into the play field.
01:45:10
Speaker
I want to know what your thoughts are on that, if it makes it a better game.
01:45:14
Speaker
if you enjoy it more because of it, too.
01:45:16
Speaker
Yeah, you know what?
01:45:17
Speaker
My attitude is if it's your game and you want to do something to it and certainly something that is removable, give it a shot.
01:45:25
Speaker
I heard people say, you know what?
01:45:26
Speaker
It makes it fun.
01:45:28
Speaker
It doesn't make it just a complete and brutal game.
01:45:34
Speaker
Pinball should be fun.
01:45:37
Speaker
Really quickly, we got a reply back from...
01:45:41
Speaker
the email that we received last episode of our ongoing discussion about making pinball more open to the general public uh robbie i'm calling him robbie uh i know it's not i know it's not any i apologize for totally friend robbie
01:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, I totally slaughter his name every time.
01:46:04
Speaker
I do apologize, man.
01:46:05
Speaker
But he said he spoke with the location owner and said that they have it set up so there's no replays, but they have extra balls only because he's referring to the Roger Sharp comment that replays our self-inflicted wounds.
01:46:16
Speaker
And now that he understands that concept, he's more on board.
01:46:19
Speaker
And now that he understands that position of an operator, he likes it.
01:46:24
Speaker
He wanted us to discuss really quickly, though, what are some of the challenges and approaches to catalyzing the next generation of pinball enthusiasts, especially since we have kids and whatnot, you know?
01:46:39
Speaker
Yeah.
Maintaining Pinball Machines for Public Enjoyment
01:46:41
Speaker
Really, you have to have a location that has a motivated person that maintains the games.
01:46:52
Speaker
If you buy a game and put it on site, it will get run down and it will just become non-fun.
01:46:59
Speaker
This is my challenge with trying to go and play location pinball is because my games run really well at home.
01:47:07
Speaker
And trust me, I have money and I would love to go and play your games on site.
01:47:12
Speaker
But if you don't maintain them, I'm not going to play them.
01:47:16
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:47:17
Speaker
That's the bottom line.
01:47:18
Speaker
And it's incorporated somehow is that it brings people into your establishment.
01:47:25
Speaker
And so you have to find someone who is a tech.
01:47:32
Speaker
and I know that that's challenging but you have to invest in that if you you're not going to have the same type of you're not going to have the the same person who comes in who just wants to play a video game people will drive hours to go play your game it's new money into your establishment and so if you're willing to do that and set it up so you have you know food drinks whatever
01:47:58
Speaker
To make it a moneymaker, that's fine, but that's really the only way it's going to be maintained.
01:48:06
Speaker
It's going to be profitable if your machines play well.
01:48:10
Speaker
That's why you have places like Sunshine Laundry Mat.
01:48:12
Speaker
That's why you have Netherworld.
01:48:14
Speaker
That's why you have Logan's Arcade.
01:48:16
Speaker
You have all those places that good players will go play because your games are good.
01:48:22
Speaker
But if you're putting out a crap product, people are not going to give it to you.
01:48:27
Speaker
Well, and here's – so with you picking the general public side of the coin, I'm going to flip the coin and talk really quick about the next generation.
Introducing Pinball to New Players
01:48:36
Speaker
So he asked specifically kind of like how we get our kids into it.
01:48:41
Speaker
I make every experience with Pinball Machine with my son positive.
01:48:47
Speaker
I don't ever give him crap for how he's playing.
01:48:50
Speaker
I have some easier games like World Cup soccer is a fantastic game because it bodes really well for beginners.
01:48:58
Speaker
And it bodes really well for novice slash experts.
01:49:01
Speaker
There's depth to it to get to World Cup, but it's satisfying just to make a goal.
01:49:07
Speaker
Like I've had people come over and I've had teenagers come over to my house, youth groups, and we've turned on the machines and played them and they will stay at World Cup because they just love making the goal and hearing goal.
01:49:21
Speaker
I even had a young gentleman say, hey, he'd been to my house twice and he says, I hope you never get rid of this machine because it's my favorite.
01:49:27
Speaker
And he doesn't even like soccer.
01:49:28
Speaker
So I think the thing is, too, is you've got to have a positive experience.
01:49:32
Speaker
You have you have to have friendlier games.
01:49:35
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
01:49:35
Speaker
I do love playing some faster, meaner games.
01:49:39
Speaker
But you've got to have a game that that people have never played the hobby before feels walk away feeling satisfied playing it.
01:49:47
Speaker
So, yeah, well, I'll give you the example of the example for people of my generation playing Contra on the Nintendo Entertainment System.
01:49:55
Speaker
Okay.
01:49:57
Speaker
So it's a three-guy game, and it is brutal.
01:50:03
Speaker
Like, you cannot beat it with three guys unless you are amazing, okay?
01:50:08
Speaker
But what did everyone do?
01:50:10
Speaker
Everyone put that in, and they did up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start, and got 30 guys.
01:50:16
Speaker
Okay, because it was fun that way.
01:50:19
Speaker
You could actually go to the end of the game and okay, so maybe it was cheap.
01:50:22
Speaker
It went to the end of the game.
01:50:25
Speaker
But I still play Contra to this day.
01:50:28
Speaker
I put in the old game and I do the code and I just have a fun time.
01:50:35
Speaker
Because not every pinball game has to be going for the GC.
01:50:40
Speaker
It doesn't have to be so brutal that, well, I just did it just right.
01:50:45
Speaker
So I had that one 100 game.
01:50:47
Speaker
You know, sometimes I want a one and four game where it's just fun.
01:50:52
Speaker
And now there is a fine line between making it too easy that you're thinking this ball is never draining and this is boring.
01:50:59
Speaker
So, but I've done that on most of my games.
01:51:03
Speaker
I've actually gone in and really set a lot of things for a lot easier.
01:51:08
Speaker
Just so when people come down, they have that good connection.
01:51:11
Speaker
And yeah, if you want to make them difficult for you, fine.
01:51:14
Speaker
But have a few games that people will come down and say, hey, why don't you go play that game?
01:51:20
Speaker
That's fun.
01:51:21
Speaker
And don't send them to Walking Dead.
01:51:25
Speaker
Send them to Medieval Madness.
01:51:26
Speaker
Everybody loves Medieval Madness.
01:51:28
Speaker
Well, that's the thing, too, is like, like I said, every time doesn't matter if it's a kid doesn't matter if it's an adult.
01:51:33
Speaker
It's their first time playing.
01:51:35
Speaker
Make it a positive experience.
01:51:37
Speaker
You know, help them out.
01:51:38
Speaker
Don't overload them.
01:51:40
Speaker
I mean, it's hard to do that sometimes when you've been in this hobby for five years.
01:51:43
Speaker
You're like, there's so much depth.
01:51:44
Speaker
Like, I have a friend that I started explaining medieval madness and I kind of got carried away and he's like.
01:51:51
Speaker
how do you remember all this?
01:51:52
Speaker
And I'm like, I just do.
01:51:53
Speaker
And then he's like, well, this applies to every pinball machine, right?
01:51:55
Speaker
I'm like, no, they all have their own individual rules.
01:51:58
Speaker
And he's like, now what?
01:52:00
Speaker
Wait, what?
01:52:00
Speaker
And so...
01:52:02
Speaker
Boil it down.
01:52:03
Speaker
Make it basic.
01:52:06
Speaker
I've got an attack from Mars.
01:52:08
Speaker
So when someone comes over and they've never played pinball before and they start playing attack from Mars, if they even destroy one ship, I make it a huge deal.
01:52:14
Speaker
Because if you've never played pinball, and especially where you destroy a ship and it has all the flashing lights and the explosions and stuff like that,
01:52:22
Speaker
they're going to remember that.
01:52:23
Speaker
That's, that's the thing about pinball.
01:52:25
Speaker
And every person will say this.
01:52:27
Speaker
It doesn't matter if you've been in the pinball hobby for 30 years, or if you've been in for 30 seconds, pinball is about moments.
01:52:35
Speaker
Some of the biggest moments are hitting that jackpot on getaway, getting to tour the house on Adam's family.
01:52:42
Speaker
People remember those moments.
01:52:43
Speaker
That's why they go back to those nostalgic games.
01:52:45
Speaker
They might not be the best in the world.
01:52:48
Speaker
The games, not the people, they might not be the best games in the world.
01:52:52
Speaker
Or the people.
01:52:53
Speaker
But they remember that because of how it made them feel.
01:52:56
Speaker
So if you make them feel positive, they're going to want to know more.
01:52:59
Speaker
They want to get more involved.
01:53:00
Speaker
Well, it's the same thing.
01:53:02
Speaker
That's the reason why they have mini wizard modes, even for experienced players, because the mini wizard mode, they're like, yeah, I got to that step.
01:53:10
Speaker
You need to have that dopamine to get you to say, I want more of that, and I want to get farther.
01:53:17
Speaker
Right.
01:53:18
Speaker
So, yeah, absolutely.
01:53:21
Speaker
I think that in your home collection, make sure you have a few accessible games.
01:53:28
Speaker
Don't make them Pinberg A-Division quality every time.
01:53:33
Speaker
People will just hate it.
01:53:36
Speaker
Well, that's what I was talking to you about this week.
01:53:37
Speaker
I think I've officially landed on my favorite
Balancing Game Difficulty and Fun
01:53:40
Speaker
era.
01:53:40
Speaker
Big shocker to everyone is the 90s Williams ballet games.
01:53:44
Speaker
And the reason being is, is because the wizard modes are far out enough.
01:53:48
Speaker
I don't hit them every time I play the game.
01:53:50
Speaker
But they're close enough that I can hit them every once in a while.
01:53:54
Speaker
And some of these games are just fantastic when you get to the wizard mode.
01:53:57
Speaker
Like Johnny Mnemonic.
01:54:00
Speaker
Love the wizard mode.
01:54:01
Speaker
Everything shuts down.
01:54:02
Speaker
It goes to power down mode.
01:54:04
Speaker
And just the light show on that.
01:54:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:54:07
Speaker
adam's family same thing scared stiff when you finally actually hit all when you get totally scared stiff the whole game acts like it's breaking down it just starts freaking out on you and it's one of the best feelings it's like i broke the machine because i was playing so good you know what i'm saying yeah
01:54:24
Speaker
And so that's what I love about those.
01:54:27
Speaker
There's still a challenge to it, but I don't feel like it's a challenge I'll never get to like five year mission on Star Trek.
01:54:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:54:34
Speaker
And, but at the same time, there are games that have those like Valinor, but people, Hey, can you destroy the ring?
01:54:42
Speaker
Yeah, I got that.
01:54:43
Speaker
You know?
01:54:43
Speaker
And so there are, that's why there's steps.
01:54:46
Speaker
Make sure there are achievable, fun things.
01:54:48
Speaker
Like make sure pinball's fun.
01:54:50
Speaker
That's the bottom line.
01:54:51
Speaker
Make, make sure it's fun.
01:54:52
Speaker
Yep.
01:54:52
Speaker
Don't don't take off all the all the white widen up the outlanes, take off all the rovers and then have your friends come over and ask them to have a good time.
01:55:01
Speaker
It's not going to happen.
01:55:03
Speaker
Oh, and the other thing, too, if you have people over, don't blow up a game.
01:55:06
Speaker
They get bored really quick.
01:55:08
Speaker
Yeah, I've gotten all the way to power failure on Jurassic Park.
01:55:12
Speaker
And the people love the light show, but they get really bored the 15 minutes in between you pressing the start button and getting to that mode.
01:55:18
Speaker
Well, that's why TNA is such a great home, fun game to play because you have quick things.
01:55:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:55:25
Speaker
I go to my friend's house who has all the Valley Williams games.
01:55:28
Speaker
And yeah, if we're playing a few, you know, a multiplayer game, if one person starts going like really far into it, you're going to kind of lose interest and just start another game.
01:55:40
Speaker
So.
01:55:40
Speaker
Well, I think that's an awesome note to end on.
Closing and Contact Information
01:55:43
Speaker
Once again, if you want to get a restored pin, hit up Chris Hutchins with high-end pin restorations, or go check out some of that wonderful artwork with bradalbright.com.
01:55:57
Speaker
We'll put both the links in the show notes.
01:55:59
Speaker
If you want to reach out to us, reach out to us.
01:56:01
Speaker
You can hit us at loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com.
01:56:05
Speaker
you can hit us up through Facebook, either Scott Larson or Josh Roop or the loser kid pinball podcast page.
01:56:11
Speaker
We're even on Instagram.
01:56:12
Speaker
I'm finding more people are hitting us up on Instagram than on Facebook.
01:56:16
Speaker
Hit us up there.
01:56:16
Speaker
You can send us a trick message, whatever it may be.
01:56:20
Speaker
Um, but we're, we're always happy to hear from you.
01:56:22
Speaker
Uh, we, it's funny cause we've been chit chatting with a lot of people and it's just, it's good to be involved in the community.
01:56:28
Speaker
Um,
01:56:29
Speaker
Last thing, I just did a fresh batch of hats.
01:56:31
Speaker
If you haven't reached out to us and you haven't got a hat yet, as what's now being officially dubbed as the Keith Elwin hat from the last guy that bought a hat from us, you need to reach out to us.
01:56:40
Speaker
Not trademark and not Keith Elwin endorsed, but he does like the hat too.
01:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, but apparently that's what it's known for, I guess.
01:56:48
Speaker
I don't know.
01:56:49
Speaker
Sounds fun.
01:56:51
Speaker
And Keith, if you're listening, dude, thanks so much, man.
01:56:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:56:56
Speaker
I would have never thought when we started this that it would be cool enough for Keith Allen to wear our hat.
01:57:00
Speaker
So thanks again, man.
01:57:02
Speaker
All right, Scott, you got anything else for us?
01:57:04
Speaker
I don't think so.
01:57:05
Speaker
Catch you in one to two weeks, depending on our schedule or the news sources.
01:57:11
Speaker
Awesome, man.
01:57:11
Speaker
Always great talking to you.
01:57:12
Speaker
Okay, signing out.