Transcript
Speaker: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Kate Hamilton Health Podcast. So in today's episode, I chat with Diane Dukarm and we have the most interesting conversation around the topic of migraines.
Speaker: Diane is a wellness practitioner specializing in helping women decode and overcome chronic migraines. With a deep understanding that migraines are more than just headaches, she focuses on addressing the root causes rather than just managing the symptoms.
Speaker: her approach leverages functional foods and holistic strategies to help the brain return to a non-painful state diane emphasizes the intersection of hormone health and migraines particularly during perimenopause and menopause and she provides holistic tools to mitigate symptoms Diane aims to empower women with knowledge and strategies to regain control over their health and well-being. And that's what our whole conversation is based around.
Speaker: We talk about migraines and hormone health. We talk about holistic approaches to migraine relief. We talk about advocating for yourself when getting medical care. We talk about natural versus pharmaceutical, Eastern versus Western medicine. And we really talk a lot around inflammation, the vagus nerve and gut health.
Speaker: into mental health, into brain health more so as we're talking about migraines. I think you will get so much from this episode. It was such a refreshing and interesting conversation. So without further ado, here is the episode with Diane Dupar.
Speaker: Diane, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited to chat all things migraines today. Yes, likewise. And because this is actually a topic that, you know, everyone knows what migraines are, but it's not something that I've given a whole lot of thought to. So this is going to be a really, really interesting conversation for me, and particularly around the topic of gut health, around hormones, around all of these things that I do talk about quite a lot.
Speaker: And this is going to be really, really interesting conversation. But look, before we dive into it, Would you like to tell everyone a little bit about you and what you do? So my name is Diane Ducarm. From my accent, you can pick up that I'm a French speaker. i come from Belgium.
Speaker: And every day I help people who are chronic migraine sufferers become migraine heroes. So these people will have seen countless doctors, neurologists, chiropractors, acupuncturists, nutritionists in search of answers.
Speaker: with no result or no sustainable result. And they live life that are completely constrained. They have a lot of things that are forbidden because it triggers them. And they really have endless medications that they've tried or that they may take. Maybe also really long list of supplements.
Speaker: And in spite of all of these efforts, these people are deprived of life, I want to say. And I really want to say that with all heart and all kindness, these are really people that you might cross And you might see and you have no idea how difficult and how much struggle and how much resilience there is behind that individual.
Speaker: Wow. So when we're talking migraines, we're not just talking about a little headache. No, we're not talking about a little headache. We're talking about pain that is coming recurring, can last anywhere between four hours to a couple of days, can start one day and never finish.
Speaker: So basically the person wakes up through a traumatic brain injury or after a massive stress, it's a burnout, and has had a food poisoning in an exotic country, it started her puberty, or just in childhood it started, and then that pain comes back and it comes back in massive waves, completely invisible.
Speaker: They will do lots of MRIs and lots of CT scans, and there's nothing appearing. but inside the person has pain the the inner form labor. Think of it like giving birth, at a massive amount of pain.
Speaker: And also a migraine attack is a full body experience. So not only do we really have head pain, They also will experience, for example, numbness in the arms, tingling sensation, cramps, spasms.
Speaker: They might see dots in their vision, prisms, flashlights. They might vomit. They might have throbbing pain. They may have almost like a knife ah point in in their in their head, or they might feel very dizzy or foggy.
Speaker: So extreme, excruciating pain that is absolutely invisible. It must be very terrifying, especially the first time, because you're like, I'm dying. What is the symptom? eight That's exactly how you feel. And it's it's incredibly common what I'm talking about. We're talking about one in five women has had that as an experience.
Speaker: It's genetics. It's only 5% of boys and girls. And the incidence triples to quadruples for women at puberty. And that's exactly that. They almost feel they're going to die. So oftentimes they're going to go to the emergency room and they're going to give a really high dose of painkillers, what is called a mini medication cocktail.
Speaker: Or for example, in Australia, we might refer as a green thistle, which is the highest dose of morphine to wake up three days later with the diagnosis of migraine And they're like, what? You have to be kidding me. this i almost I felt like I was going to have a stroke.
Speaker: In some situations, right? Not always. Sometimes it can be a lingering constant dizziness until menopause. And then at menopause, it hits into full migraines. It's going to depend. The format's going to depend.
Speaker: Wow. What causes this in the body? Do we know? That's a great question. To understand that we need to go east and west. ah The reason why we need to do that is because in the west, you pay your doctor as long as you're sick.
Speaker: And so in the west, we have a massive understanding of sickness. In the east, you pay your doctor as long as you're healthy. We have a profound understanding of health. Now, where does migraine sit?
Speaker: Well, when a person has a migraine, they're not dying, but they're not living, I would argue. But from a medical point of view, they're not dying. Their vital signs are still sort of normal most of the time.
Speaker: And so do we know what it comes from? From the West, if you really dig deep deep, deep, deep, deep into scientific studies, no, the answer is no. We're going to qualify this as a genetic neurological disorder.
Speaker: Whereas in the East, in the East, it's going to be said that ah migraine is more like a fire alarm, which is genetic and which is going to be an alert from the vagus nerve, from the gut-brain axis to indicate that there's an underlying problem inside of the body. So the genetic component is the ability to have the alarm, but not the fire alarm itself, not the noise itself.
Speaker: The migraine only erupts if and only if there is an underlying or multiple imbalances inside the body. And so in the West, we're going to tell you to medicate, to suffer, to accept, to hydrate, to move, to not to come back, not to do more CT scans, not to do more MRIs, just to suck it up. It comes with a territory.
Speaker: It's because you're a woman. Whereas in the East, they're going to say, no, no, you just have to listen to your body signals and fix a few things. And then once you do that, the pain goes away. Very different approach if we look at the East and the West.
Speaker: It's the difference between treating the symptoms and treating the root cause. Exactly. Exactly. And if you treat the symptom, what is really, really horrible, Kate, is that if you treat the symptom, what you do is you want to stop the fire alarm.
Speaker: And what you do is you try to give pain killers. So your body says, your brain says, mayday, mayday, I have a problem. And you say, will you please... stop talking. And it's really hard for people who suffer because they're after answers. They ask a lot of questions and they never get answers.
Speaker: And so they're a bit, I think gaslit is even an understatement, a bit ridiculed to some extent. There's a lack of In my view, a lack of respect in 1969, we went on the moon.
Speaker: We should apologize to these women as a society. We are we regretfully cannot explain more why you experienced this pain. We apologize and I'm so sorry that I can't give you an answer versus this is in your head.
Speaker: ah You have to just deal with it, suck it up. And if you if you have more migraines, maybe it's because you're not taking your medication properly. Is it just a female issue? Great question. So because it's genetic,
Speaker: you'd think it should be half-half, right? Mother nature should be fair. And it is indeed fair in the sense that it's 5% of boys and girls. So men can also have migraines. However, the incidence is going to triple to quadruple for women when this starts to hit puberty.
Speaker: So it's a more of a much more female issue than it is a man issue. So this would lead me to believe, which I think i'm going to ask you now about, so this is obviously one of the main causes is obviously something to with hormones then.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. Namely, not only, but yes. in and Let's talk hormones first then and we can we can dive into the other things afterwards. So what's the link between migraines and hormone health?
Speaker: When your hormones start to kick in at puberty, your basically your body is a bit like is learning to cycle. okay And when that happens, you start to have estrogen, LH, um progesterone that kick in and to start to give you a cycle.
Speaker: And when that happens, you have a system inside of your body from an Eastern perspective called the liver system that kicks in to produce these hormones on a clock. And when it doesn't do that impeccably well, or when the liver system has too much toxicity and the estrogen level therefore fluctuates in an abnormal way, that can trigger a migraine. So imagine the inflammation of the liver system in charge of producing these hormones will be translated through the vagus nerve to the brain.
Speaker: Now, the massive challenge is the root cause is going to be that imbalance in the liver system. If you start to add medication on top of that, you make the whole problem worse.
Speaker: That's how you can go from episodic to chronic. Yeah, that makes so much sense that obviously you're taking medication, it's going to affect your liver. and Yeah. And I want to say something really important. It is important to go to the doctor. You have to go. I'm pro-doctors. You have to see, is your diagnosis migraine? You have to...
Speaker: verify that it's the case, verify that there's not something else going on with your health. But if it is migraine, then muting, mute trying to, because it doesn't, you know, science shows that more medication leads to more what is called rebound migraines or medication overuse headache, which very quickly you get it because The more you consume medication, the more you're in pain. the more you're in pain, the more you consume medication. So you get into an extremely vicious circle, which is proven scientifically.
Speaker: So once you have that diagnosis confirmed and you have done your exams, then just medicating endlessly is not going to be conducive of solution. And women know that. It's just that they also have no alternative currently really need to to help.
Speaker: Let's talk a little bit about the vagus nerve, the gut brain axis, because a lot of us will know that, you know, the gut brain axis is, you know, connects our gut to our brain and has a lot to do with our mental health and emotional sense.
Speaker: But obviously, this is also a really important part of this puzzle. Mm-hmm. Huge, huge. So I like to compare the vagus nerve to a big tree. So imagine inside your body, you have this gigantic tree.
Speaker: You have your tree plants its roots in your thorax. So imagine it's planting its roots around your heart, around your lungs, around your stomach, around your large and small intestine, around your uterus.
Speaker: And all of these roots form larger roots that go along your spine. They connect the hundred billion nerve cells of your body. They form a bit of a trunk in your neck. And then they plug in like an electric car in your brain. going to say like a Tesla in your brain.
Speaker: Okay. What you'd expect from an electric car is like a lot of wires, right? For all of the job it does, probably expect a lot of wires. And that's what you'd expect here too. But all of the wires are somehow hidden.
Speaker: And so the trunk gives birth to a big foliage, which is your brain, so dense that it's impossible to find where each of the branches go to.
Speaker: So where do the root form and where do they go to in the brain? It's quite obscure from a Western medicine point of view. From an Eastern perspective, because they have observed symptoms for thousands of years over billions of people, they have, based on migraines, remapped the brain in function of these systems. So they're more able to say within the brain, how does the brain connect to the gut via the vagus nerve in which locations?
Speaker: Yeah. So that's how it's been mapped. So yeah, vagus nerve plays a huge role. Is there any other areas that cause, so, you know, if we've got hormonal imbalances going on, if we've got inflammation in the liver, if our gut health is not in a good position, the vagus nerve, I presume, has a lot to do with stress as well?
Speaker: Completely, absolutely. So here you're bringing in gut-brain access. You're also bringing in emotions and emotions are incredibly important. If you've gone through trauma in your childhood, Western science has proven that your vagus nerve will be altered.
Speaker: And if your vagus nerve is altered and you have a genetic predisposition for migraine, then you will have migraines that are quite strong and that will be anxiety and stress related. The problem is the stress causes migraine.
Speaker: then the migraine itself causes stress because yeah there's the anxiety of the pain itself. And so you become in a very vicious circle. um Another quite unfamiliar way to have migraine is, for example, if you have blood clots in your uterus or if you have cysts on your arteries.
Speaker: then those, when you menstruate, the vagus nerve will pick up the anomaly and send the signal as well. The reason why i know that is because when we remove them, then the pain goes away. And that's how we you know we we go from being a migraine addict.
Speaker: warrior to become a migraine hero. And so that's how we know. Is this because we've seen the facts that once these blood clots get removed or these cysts get removed, then the brain no longer complains. But this can also be a part of it. So really think of any problems that really, you know, it can be thyroid issues. For example, thyroid issues will be bucked up by the brain and the person will get medicated for years, for decades for the thyroid and the medication is going to contribute to the migraines over the years.
Speaker: Same for contraceptives too. They will impact the hormones and therefore they can have an influence on the migraines as well. Let's talk perimenopause. So as women, we're so lucky that we get to go through this wonderful time with all these lovely symptoms. And this is something else that can get a little bit worse for us during this time.
Speaker: Absolutely. i love that you say that. Yes, absolutely. The same way that there's this incidence that triples or quadruples during puberty, when women go through perimenopause and menopause, there's again, almost you could call it a musical chair.
Speaker: And for some, they're going to be much better off. after perimenopause. For some, they will be much worse off and for some, it's just going to change. For very few, it will manifest in the same way.
Speaker: And so during the perimenopause time is a massive time of transition where indeed the hormones and the systems are going to change in nature. So the job of the body is changing.
Speaker: And in changing that job in that transition, all of these hormonal fluctuations will play a huge role in inducing more, lot more migraines, more migraine attacks, but it can also manifest in a lot more dizziness, a lot more vertigo, a lot more fogginess.
Speaker: So much, much less mental clarity. And here again, it's a message from the brain saying, can you we please age gracefully? Will you please help me and nourish me and love me unconditionally for the rest of our lives so that we're not having Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, et cetera, or just a healthy, happy, nourished brain, if that makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah, and know that makes so much sense. An indicator, please look after me, which we're going to get into, you know, how we can help with our lifestyles and with our nutrition. One last question on perimenopause. Can you develop migraines for the first time at this stage?
Speaker: Yes, absolutely. I have a podcast called Migrant Heroes, and in there you have a hero called Samantha. And Samantha explains that for all her life, she had headaches. And she'd never called them migrants. For them, they were not debilitating. So she thought she she wasn't you know going to use that terminology. For her, she'd have these headaches, and they would be unexplained. And she'd seen a lot neurologists over the years, but they were what they were.
Speaker: And when she hit perimenopause, she was a journalist. She just could no longer focus. It was awful. She'd be in front of her screen. The screen would be a massive trigger for her and she'd be dizzy and just unable to perform, which flips your life completely upside down.
Speaker: It's not only your physical identity is changing, but your professional identity is being massively impacted. And then a friend, you know, said, ah three friends said, oh my God, you have to do this. You have to do this. And then that's how we we got to know each other and how she got her brain back.
Speaker: But indeed for her, just migraines. And then during Pyramid Abba was massive, massive migraines. Otherwise, no, unless there's a burnout. The burnout can also happen quite, you know, when you're at that age, perimenopause, you're quite senior in your position.
Speaker: It's quite possible that the level of stress, pressure, kids, grandparents, like you're tortured in all directions from the bottom with your children, from above your parents and then from the work and with your spouse and When all of that's too much, I have seen sometimes people go into a burnout mode and then start to have migraine at a very late stage in their life.
Speaker: I know there'll be a lot of people listening that will feel really, really seen right now. Really, they'll be like, this is me, whether it's the burnout, menopause, whether it is the migraines that they're medicating and they're not getting getting through.
Speaker: And there'll be a lot of people listening that i'll be like I'm feeling quite hopeless about this. And now what is this that I'm hearing? Is there an answer? So let's talk a little bit about how we can start within ourselves.
Speaker: within our lifestyles, what can we do to improve these symptoms? And I know you've said you're not anti-doctor. So we like we will talk a little bit about advocating for yourself when you come to the doctor. But let's talk about lifestyle first.
Speaker: I suppose say we're not saying don't go to the doctor, but let's look at what we can do. Yes, because I think it's important alongside to to be. making these changes. There's a lot of things that you can do, a lot. First of all, I'm completely behind you. Like you can get there, you can get there.
Speaker: So the first thing I want to call you on is you have the answer. and it's going to sound a really weird thing for me to say, but you in yourself, in your mind, in your heart, it's very possible you have the answer.
Speaker: If you did doubt, is this that my IUD that I just placed two years ago, probably is that that started the problem. Is it that my work, I don't like it, it's too stressful, it probably has an element of that.
Speaker: Is it that medication I'm taking that just makes me feel that way? It is probably plays a role. Is that toxic relationship influencing? There's probably an element of that. So the first thing is try to trust your intuition at maximum.
Speaker: So that's number one. Try to you know use your intuition at maximum. Because if you remove the things that trigger you fast, you don't snowball as far.
Speaker: If you hide these with medications, you will snowball very, very fast and you will become episodic to chronic very, very fast. What you want to try to do is to avoid that situation. That's number one.
Speaker: So apologies, I just just want to make a point on that. So if we're looking at kind of those kind of lifestyle triggers, you know, whether it is a job or a relationship or a medication or a contraception or whatever, this could be a ah big life decision that needs to be made that although it may seem difficult, it could be quite necessary.
Speaker: Yes, it it could be quite necessary. And the worst part is it will not solve it instantly. It's at least not going to make it worse. Let's take an example.
Speaker: Let's imagine that you are on a contraceptive. Let's imagine you're fairly young and you just change contraceptive and you're told to take that contraceptive and you go back to your doctor you're like, I think that contraceptive is giving me migraines.
Speaker: And the doctor challenges your word, but you're very convinced timing sinks. If you are convinced, listen to yourself, advocate for yourself, get that IUD out, get the pill changed.
Speaker: If the hormones do not suit you and you started to get into a snowball and these migraines are new for you, go backwards as fast as you can. It doesn't mean that the migraines are going to stop because there's a domino effect that started, but at least you're not going to make things worse.
Speaker: Yeah, you're not messing with your hormones more so than this. Yes. And it's an interesting point you make about advocating for yourself with the doctor, because I don't know what it's like where you are in New Zealand. But in Ireland, I know that doctors are really pushing the copper coil ah hugely.
Speaker: Like, as in, I've had three children after my third child. My doctor was like pushing contraception on me and I really didn't want to take the pill. And I really and I was considering getting the coil.
Speaker: And in the end, I was like, no, my husband can get a vasectomy. That's fine. i I kind of just I felt like my body had done enough. I didn't want to. And that was my own personal decision. I know a lot of friends of mine do have the coil. But even when I was speaking to the doctor,
Speaker: And I was like, I really don't really want to get the coil. Maybe I'll go on the pill. And she really was anti-pill and very pro-coil, which was interesting. Do you know the reasoning behind this? Absolutely. You know what, Kate? I don't know the reasoning, but I have gone through the same experience myself.
Speaker: I was on a Myron IUD and I told my doctor I'm bleeding every day at the time I was living in Shanghai. And I said, I'd like to have this Myron IUD out. I am bleeding every single day. And she says, no, no, you're spotting. I'm like, I'm bleeding.
Speaker: but your see But I'm 32. I'm telling you, I'm bleeding. Well, she challenged me. i had to keep it for four months. After which she accepted to remove it. And she said, oh my God, this really didn't suit you.
Speaker: I'm like, I've been telling you this the whole time. Why do you tell me i feel something I don't? and and it's You're not in my body. I know my body. Trust me on this. And i i honestly, Kate, I don't know.
Speaker: I don't know if there's an incentive. She did not want to remove it. And it's an amazing doctor. I just couldn't believe it. I was really upset. ah Really upset. So yes, so advocate for yourself. Make a case for it.
Speaker: If that doctor doesn't want to change it, go to see someone else. This is a matter that it really, really matters because from here you can snowball incredibly fast. I'll give you an example. If you're on a copper IUD and you're listening to us,
Speaker: And you're bleeding a lot. Let me explain to you one thing. Your brain is only 2 to 6% of your weight. It's 20% of your energy consumption. It's full of blood.
Speaker: In your fertility years, you're going to lose 23 to 28 liters of menstruation. and So if you're bleeding a lot, you're probably bleeding twice as fast as that rate. You only have 4 to 5 liters of blood in your body.
Speaker: So if you bleed too much and you're not reproducing fast enough, then your brain doesn't have enough blood, then of course you're going to need a tryptone to pass that migraine. The tryptone is going to conjure your blood vessel and your blood is going to go back to your brain.
Speaker: But undigested ah or undetoxed going to add toxification and you're going add to the problem. Now we went from a copper IUD, I don't have enough blood, which is, by the way, giving me sugar cravings and a dry skin, all the way to now I have an intoxicated liver because I'm starting to take medication for it.
Speaker: So that's what I mean by if you're listening to us and this is you, go fast. The migraine IUD will act differently. It might make you not bleed. When you bleed, your body gets rid of toxins. It's the like the garbage truck.
Speaker: Not having a menstruation is like keeping all of your garbage in your house. which is going to be fired for a month or two, but let's face it, for a year, we create a small chaos. And so when you start to have the garbage truck that comes back, it's going to only be able to remove some garbage at a time.
Speaker: And so when you remove your Myron ID, you might say, ah Diane was right. I still have migraines, but I think it was that. This is where the doctor might say, see, I told you it wasn't that. Well, no, you just have to give it time for your body to be able to do its thing.
Speaker: So the first, your intuition. You know something changed and you know. And if you don't know, write the events, try to keep a diary. On the Migrant Heroes app, we have a freemium.
Speaker: Just track and observe what is, where is this coming from? That's going to be my my first one because everyone's situation is very, very, very, if you went through trauma, You know what?
Speaker: Find someone who can help with the polyvagal theory. Again, in the Magritte Heroes app, we have someone dedicated dedicated to that, but you can find someone. I've done a great podcast with a guy called Justin Caffrey or with Dulce Cardinal. And these are people who can help with that. If you feel it's trauma, then tackle the trauma.
Speaker: Yeah. So number one, listen to your intuition. Number two, I want to talk about sports. For some women, sport is going to be a migraine trigger and movement is going to be a migraine trigger.
Speaker: And for others, it's going to be a relief. And so here as well, you're going to need to find your balance. And what used to be true for a long time before perimenopause can become the opposite as you go through perimenopause.
Speaker: You have to truly listen to yourself. So for example, maybe when you were in your 30s, you could push yourself with a lot of cardio and sweat a lot. And that worked really well for you. And then you observe, now I am in my 40s. And or if I sweat, if I push myself too hard, I start to become very dizzy.
Speaker: then listen to yourself. Maybe that triathlon, you know what, you you might achieve a goal, but you lose something else. And why not be reasonable and listen to your body and its to its signals? That would be a second area is really when it comes to fitness and sports and This is an interesting one as well that I work with a lot of women going through perimenopause and menopause.
Speaker: And we talk a lot about cortisol and quite often what happens, you know, a lot of women love their HIIT classes or, you know, their high intensity. type of workouts.
Speaker: And sometimes that can be a little bit counterproductive. You know, you're raising cortisol levels in the body if you're doing a lot of high intensity. And it can be especially, you know, a lot of women come to me because they want to lose body fat. They want to get to a healthy weight.
Speaker: That is achieved really by walking and lifting weights. And it's interesting that, you know, obviously, if we have personal goals and there's lots of women that I work with that want to run the Dublin City Marathon and they want to do they've got different goals.
Speaker: And that's really interesting. great as long as it's not making things worse. I am 200% with you, Kate. Completely. Yes, yes, yes. And yes, that's exactly right. You said it all just there.
Speaker: Yes. And so listen to Kate. Quite often I think we we think we need to do more in order to be super fit and healthy. And it's like, it's actually about stripping it back to the simplest. Yes, lift lift weights three times a week if you can would be great in my world.
Speaker: You know, we're talking standard strength training. it's You know, it's not complicated. You know, once you get into a good routine with it, it's really empowering. You really enjoy it. Just get like, be someone who walks every day. It doesn't even need to be an added stress. Oh, I have to walk five kilometers or I have to walk for 10,000 steps. It's like, just be someone that walks every day.
Speaker: Yes, yes, it's very, very true. I'm completely with you. I see a lot of people who will go for these very extreme sports and oftentimes also to get their belly flat and that called constipation, which is, you know, impairment pose a really big deal.
Speaker: And by the way, if you notice, if you have suffered from migraine, you might notice that you have more migraines than you're constipated. I really invite you to observe that. And so their way out is excess sports, but they do that at the expense of other parts of their body.
Speaker: We're not anti-sport and we're not anti-goals, but you know, if there's things going on in your body, it might be time to just maybe slow down and focus on those first. So what's number three? what What do we need to be doing?
Speaker: Number three, well, we need to watch our diet. Again, intuitively, a lot of women will say, ooh, like that wine, it was harder. The alcohol is harder. I think men get to that level as well when they hit 40s, 45. Like, oof, this is harder to get over of alcohol. I'm following intuition there.
Speaker: It's really important. Your liver organ, when you go through pyrimenopause, is going to decrease in size by up to 44%. So it's going to really lose a lot of its volume. Wow. And therefore, your ability to detox, well, uh-huh.
Speaker: So if you feel ah have less capacity, it's the same as the sport. Well, then put a little bit less in the tank. Be a bit more gentle on yourself. Maybe that extra glass of wine, maybe that extra food.
Speaker: Just eating light at night. Now, still on the topic of the diet, it's really important. There's a lot of movement around intermittent fasting. If you do that, don't skip breakfast, please. Skip dinner.
Speaker: Your ability to digest and you still need to feed yourself and feed your brain. What you can absorb is really in the morning time. So, I did not tell her to say this, but that's what I'm always saying. I'm always like, people want to intermittent fast quite often because they think they'll lose weight or they'll, they want to skip breakfast because they want to save for their eating for the evening time. like, if you want to fast, fast from 6pm to 6am.
Speaker: Don't skip breakfast. I am like so much with you, Kate, on that. And I think that's a huge shortcut people are taking and the really wrong one. And I actually link it. If you think of people who suffer from migraine disease, not as an inferior brain, but actually a superior brain because they have an alarm system, right? They have additional safety measures in their bodies.
Speaker: But if you do intermittent fasting, you probably will notice that you get more dizzy often. If you have migraines with aura, they will come a lot more. And that if you go for full fast, you might be dizzy very, very fast and you might need to interrupt your fasting.
Speaker: So here again, go with the harmony of your body. Now, by no stretch of imagination is, am I saying that it's easy? If you've had migraines for
Speaker: 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years, of course, it's gotten complicated along the way. And so by no stretch of imagination am I saying it's easy. What I'm trying to do is try to minimize what you experience.
Speaker: And then of course, with diet, you can do a lot because basically through the gut-brain access, you can access the brain. via the gut. um I work with 740 foods and that's how we repair that axis.
Speaker: But at a minimum, don't fall for the for the the morning skip your breakfast trap. And if you feel you're fasting and starting to impair your vision and your brain function, listen to your body and stop.
Speaker: When you're talking about not skipping breakfast is very much to fuel your brain to start at the day right. To fuel, yes, to fuel your brain. So inside of your brain, you have a lot of liquids.
Speaker: Your brain is technically 74% water, according to Western science. It's not H2O, just it's very noble liquids that are part of your gastric juices, etc.
Speaker: It's called yin in the east. And if you skip breakfast, you stop that muscle factor. And so you stop having these liquids. So that's going to and itself starts to create chaos that can be transformed into in particular ah more forehead migraines or struggling to fall asleep or overthinking because the stomach is linked to the prefrontal cortex along the side the vagus nerve.
Speaker: yeah So yeah, that gives a first blend of how to think about it. Yeah, and that's interesting. And if since we're talking about a kind of, I suppose, liquids in the brain, let's talk about coffee. ah As a coffee lover, love coffee.
Speaker: Are you going to tell me that i that we shouldn't have coffee? No, I'm not going to tell you that. I'm not going to tell you that. So let's talk give ah about it from a Western point of view and an Eastern point of view. From a Western point of view, coffee increases energy, which is phenomenal.
Speaker: Along the way, it does a couple more things. It's going to stimulate my liver, which is fine. If I take it in large quantities, it's going to start to demineralize me, in particular of magnesium, potassium, and vitamin B. If I consume it in large quantities, it's going disturb my estrogen production.
Speaker: It's going to disturb my cortisol and elevate it a little bit. It's going to contradict my blood vessels. And so coffee is this really interesting phenomenon because it's on the one hand, it's a migraine trigger and on the other, it's a migraine reliever as well.
Speaker: It's really both, which is quite mind bugging. Because you think, how can it be both? So you really have some many medications that will contain caffeine. And the reason is, among all of these properties, it's going to constrict your blood vessel just like a trypton would and make the blood flow go faster. So again, if you were lacking blood volume, for example, as an imbalance, and it's going to help with that problem.
Speaker: And so caffeine is great to try if you have, for example, morning migraines. But if it gives you your migraine stop immediately, because then it means there's other things going on, yeah? So On the one hand, it gives you energy and it stimulates your brain that's excellent. On the other, over time, it's a diuretic and it removes some of your minerals and it increases your cortisol and it messes a bit with your estrogen. So everything in moderation.
Speaker: From Eastern point of view, because the coffee increases the yang and therefore the qi, it takes away the yin. So it's the exact same logic. It might also perturbate the liver system. A liver system massively coming to the brain.
Speaker: Again, we go into the migrant territory. So it's about finding what's right, finding your balance. It's such an interesting conversation around coffee, isn't it? Because even, you know, with the different kind of ways that it can affect the body, but that some people will argue the point of coffee is good for you, you know, it's just, you know, and then other people are like, coffee's so bad for you. And, for you know, growing up, like when I was ah ah a teenager, was, you know, was very much the narrative was coffee is really bad for you.
Speaker: Yes. Yeah, it is much more nuanced, isn't it? It's a really interesting topic. But one thing that I do notice, yet like I think quantity really matters and probably so like starting your day and relying on coffee first thing is probably not the best. And I know a lot of people listening will be relying on coffee first thing.
Speaker: But in general, I suppose you're probably better to have 500 milliliters of water before you have a coffee, a little bit of breakfast be fueled before. We add caffeine to it. Yes. For example, if you have PCOS and migraines and therefore you have insulin resistance, the coffee will alternate also your blood sugar level.
Speaker: So it's better to have a meal and then to have the coffee, if that makes sense. It's going to impact it less. But I find even it like, and I would only have maybe two cups of coffee a day. But i said youre like only that's quite a lot.
Speaker: But different days, depending on how I am, it will affect me differently. And some some days, you know, if I meet a friend, could have a third cup of coffee and I'm OK. And then other days it would literally trigger anxiety in me. I'd be, you know, jittery afterwards. I'm like, that's too much.
Speaker: it But it depends on my emotional state, my stress, my yes, know, other things are probably my hormones. Yes, absolutely. It's extremely true. And the time of your cycle, I'd argue you need to experience it. But if you take it closer to your menstruation, the days before your menstruation, it's possible that it has a negative reaction a bit faster.
Speaker: Because at that moment, your liver is loaded with all of these toxins ready to be expelled ah through your menstruation. But something to experience is indeed extremely like for me, if I have a drop of coffee past 11am, I can't sleep at night.
Speaker: I'm extremely sensitive to coffee. So like if people baked a cake or a tiramisu and there's like, I'm like, is there coffee in there? I'm like, I'm not, or just a little bit. of like, I'm not touching it. I'm awake all night. Yeah.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. I'm going to digest and think of you all night long. No chance. no return In relation then to nutrition and gut health, you know, I've talked a lot around and I've spoken to people around gut health and the importance of having prebiotic foods and um high fiber foods in your diet to increase your gut microbiome, which in turn then increases your mental health as well and your hormone health.
Speaker: what What is the advice you give to this in relation to migraines? Absolutely. Like a full yes, because all of that is kind of cooled down inflammation. And if you have migraines, It's not guaranteed that you have inflammation, but it's quite probable.
Speaker: The prebiotics, in particular, are going to help with forehead migraines, and the fiber is going to help with um hydrating your digestive tract, which is going to, in turn, hydrate your vagus nerve.
Speaker: which is going to enter and hydrate your brain. And so avoid that dizziness and linked to constipation that a lot of people can feel. In peribetal boys, some people will talk about menier's disease.
Speaker: So it's going to help with with all of that. Yes. So a big yes to that. Is there anything else that I'm missing there in relation to gut health, what we should be including in our diet or what we shouldn't be eating?
Speaker: You know what? One thing I find is in the West, some starches have a really bad reputation. And we we love fibers. And we love fibers because fiber can help relieve constipation.
Speaker: However, a fiber is technically not digested by your gastric juices. A starch will require your gastric juices to digest them. Okay? So, yeah like, the fiber will go through.
Speaker: The starch will require... weeks to be digested creates more digestive enzymes to be digested. And so whereas they're treated like a villain in the West, they have their place among the food kingdom.
Speaker: Now, don't have a strictly start starchy diet. That would be completely counterproductive and would completely open your hunger and make you more hungry and give you more appetite. However, having a balance of fiber and strictly fiber diet would also not be very conducive of health, if if that makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah, so carbohydrates are good, everyone. That's the thing that it's okay to have a little bit of starchy. A little bit, yes. In your diet. Among starchy things, we find taro, we find parsnips. I'm not necessarily going to. Yeah, potatoes.
Speaker: Yeah, a little bit. Like everything in moderation. Everything in moderation helps to have the right population. It's a bit like you say on the planet, like let's get rid of this ethnicity or let's get rid of this job. All of the people who do this job, we're just going to kill all of them. No, that doesn't make sense.
Speaker: you know Or if you think of the animal kingdom or equilibrium of the ocean, oh, let's get rid of all of the sharks. That doesn't make sense. They have a role to play. So it's the same with food and it's the same with your biome.
Speaker: They all have a role to play. They all exist for a reason. They all shape us as humans the way we are today. And so they are an integral part. the the the Yes, we've abused them and we have processed them.
Speaker: Therefore, they've been vilified. But we should still celebrate the whole aspect of them. So for example, a white rice is still worth complete celebration. It serves a purpose. It's useful.
Speaker: You know, this is really helpful. And I think as well. Listening to your body, you know, everyone's digestive system is so different. Some people are more sensitive than others. If you're someone who, you know, gets a lot of cramping and, you know, and goes to the toilet quite regularly, maybe you need a little bit less fiber.
Speaker: Perhaps then, you know, if you're someone who is kind like quite often constipated, maybe you need a little bit more fiber. But I also think what people forget when they start like, you know, get loads of fruit and vegetables in there and loads of whole grains in there, they forget that we need water as well.
Speaker: And if you're not drinking enough water, you could quite possibly just be you know stuffing more into the into your digestive system and it not really being able to push through. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker: You've mentioned a couple of times inflammation, inflammation. sorry I don't know said that so strangely. So inflammation. And it's funny, i had I had a conversation with a doctor last week on the podcast about inflammation in the body and aging. It was really, really interesting.
Speaker: So I'd love to hear your take on inflammation in relation to, are we just talking about inflammation of the liver or are we talking other parts of the body as well in relation to migraine? No, it can come from other parts of the body as well. Yeah, it can be in your stomach. It can be, let's give a concrete example. Let's imagine that you have chronic urinary tract infections, right?
Speaker: You have some form of inflammation around your genitals. Yeah. And so that is making you have more antibodies. The same way your body has immunity, the vagina has its own immunity.
Speaker: And in order for the vagina to have its own immunity, it needs a very acidic discharge. And the acidic discharge is what helps to kill but the bacteria. But if you have a lot of mucus in your bowels, then you start to have an alkaline discharge that makes the bacteria yeah very welcome and it just creates chaos. And so it's much easier once you have a bacteria that enters a vagina to have a UTI. Then you receive antibiotics and then you have more.
Speaker: mucus and more dampness. like Sorry, it's a very complex um process I'm talking about now, but that would be one type of inflammation as well. And the chronic UTI will relate to migraines as well.
Speaker: So to solve those migraines, you're going to have to solve chronically the UTI without recourse to antibiotics anymore. The antibiotics, again, they have their place, but it contributes to the problem.
Speaker: And so they're going to start to contribute to the migraines stem themselves. So we want to really as well preventatively, like one you know if we are prone to these things, we need to make changes so that they don't keep happening.
Speaker: And that's right. Because once they happen, let's face it, if you have a neuro tract infection, you're going to have to take the antibiotics because if it goes to your kidney system, it's really, really problematic. If you it goes to your kidney organ, it's very problematic.
Speaker: But if you take the antibiotics themselves, like sort of having a lifetime of antibiotics can lead to chronic migraines as well because it damages the biome. I think Western science has proven that the biome is being damaged by antibiotics and therefore it damages the brain too. You can't damage the biome without doing something to the brain.
Speaker: So I'm talking about that ah those sorts of inflammations. So ah how you go from being, ah again, a mi migraine sufferer to migraine hero is by solving that. yeah Solving the inflammation.
Speaker: Which are these the steps that we're talking about in relation to food, in relation to and the different things that we've mentioned. Is there anything else that that you recommend that people implement?
Speaker: Well, we've talked about many things. We haven't talked so much about stress. It can be really a big migraine trigger. You talked about cortisol before. There's stress that can be structural. There's stress that can come from the migraines themselves, but then there's stress really that can come from work or from financial situation, et cetera. And so trying to um either strategically getting that source of stress out or more holistically tackle that with more meditation and self-control, et cetera,
Speaker: Both approaches are important. What is for sure is that when people, of course, go through massive pain, then ah again, the anticipation of pain can create full anxiety, which then creates migraine. So it can be a chicken and egg, but I think putting explicit effort and emphasis on managing that really serves a purpose.
Speaker: I know we're talking in relation to migraines here, but I just find even in relation to weight gain um and weight loss, quite often with diets, we're always treating the symptoms.
Speaker: We're treating the symptoms. We're not actually getting to the root cause of the issue with weight. And it is Always, I find lifestyle, obviously, there's a lot of emotional issues with it as well, but there's always lifestyle factors that need addressing and stress factors that need addressing because it's quite often like how we deal with food is a coping mechanism for what's not right in our lives or completely.
Speaker: It can be, exactly, it can be very emotional. For example, I don't know, you're very angry at something and so you you can binge eat because you're angry. But you can also just, just like blood volume, have these migraines and just always want, you crave sweet things.
Speaker: The reason why you do that is because the sweet flavor, it's going to ah sense the blood through your limbs and it's going to give you instant energy and you need that energy to do your lunchboxes and to do your grocery shopping, and all of your cooking. And you know that charm is going to be ruptured after two hours because that magic energy is going to dissipate after two hours.
Speaker: But that binging and that bad habit is going to come from an internal imbalance. doesn't necessarily come just from weight. No, absolutely not. I used to think that I lost half of my blood in a skiing accident and I used to think afterwards I gained a lot of weight.
Speaker: used to think it was just a matter of me deciding not to eat sugar. some Some things are physiological and just deciding in your mind is, you know, a battle uphill that is really hard, really, really hard because you constrain yourself, but still your body is after something. Your body is needing something.
Speaker: Your body is trying to fix what is wrong, what that, what that imbalance is. And it's a such a complicated, i i always say this, our our bodies are literally like this orchestra of all different things playing together. And if one person is off tune, it's like the whole thing. Absolutely.
Speaker: Absolutely. That's exactly right. Yes. yes So you've spoken a lot about Eastern Western practices, and i suppose they are kind of coming coming together a little bit more recent times, which is amazing. And um I'm a big believer in Eastern practices.
Speaker: for a lot of things, you know, and like when we're as we're talking stress reduction, you know, I'm i'm a big fan of yoga and of meditation and also of, you know, active meditation for people with really, really busy minds, you know, that it's sitting and or lying and meditating can be very, very difficult if you're very stressed.
Speaker: I'm a big believer in a meditative walk as well. And if you have somewhere nice to go, Don't stick your earphones in, get out and actually just be present with the sea or with the woods or wherever you are and just practice that bringing yourself back to the present moment while moving because the energy is flowing in your body a little bit.
Speaker: I find that really helpful. So in relation to the East and West, then and we've talked a little bit about, you know, the dangers of taking medications to to solve this. What is your advice and in relation to natural versus pharmaceutical solutions to this?
Speaker: Great question. There was a scientific paper published very recently showing that over the last couple of years, the very positive thing that happened in the migraine world is that there was a massive raise of advocacy.
Speaker: A lot of people had started to speak up, mainly thanks to social media, and therefore there were a lot more people aware and a lot more people diagnosed. And because there were also at the same time a lot more treatments, you'd think that more people aware being diagnosed and receiving treatment would lead a lot better results.
Speaker: And the study shows the exact opposite, that the more people unfortunately have been made aware, the more they have been diagnosed and the more they have been medicated, the more people have been in pain.
Speaker: So we have ah skyrocketed the level of pains that we've ever had in terms of migraine disease. And from that perspective, it is a very, very strong view that just go completely east. And again, why would you do that?
Speaker: but you you You would do both and I'll explain to you in in which way, but why you do that is because again, in the East, you pay your doctor as long as you're healthy. And here we're not in the state of sickness per se, even though the body manifests a fire alarm, the house is not burnt down yet.
Speaker: Yeah, it's still working. And so that's why you would not try to mute the the pain. However, i find that a Western diagnosis is extremely helpful.
Speaker: I use that a lot. Like when we really have people become these heroes after up to 60 years of pain and just completely revamping their lives, we use a lot the Western diagnostic. Like we ask, and I ask about 100 questions in the Migrant Heroes app.
Speaker: And I asked 400 questions and and so a lot of these questions relate to Western diagnosis. Have you been diagnosed with IBS? Do you have a leaky gut? um Do you have tinnitus?
Speaker: Do you have a hypothyroid? ah Do you have fibromyalgia? and All of these will help map what's going on inside the body. so Yes, a great Western diagnostic. We're really good with diagnostic and and that really helps. and Look, a CT scan or an MRI has its place. It's going to help us to confirm that there is no tumor. right and and yeah Exactly. so You know it's not something else.
Speaker: Absolutely. And that's why I'm like, you know what, we're unlucky that the world has spent so little time on this. However, we are lucky that we can both benefit from both. And I think we should use both and both are incredibly complimentary.
Speaker: Are there supplements that you recommend that we should be taking or could be taking to help with with migraines? Yes, absolutely. And they've been proven to help. There's ah quite a couple.
Speaker: Now, the only thing I will say is I've never met someone who said, oh, I've taken a supplement and it's gone. I think it's always more complex. However, it can be very helpful.
Speaker: So one of them is magnesium, really important. A second one is riboflavin, which is vitamin B2. Another one is, for example, feverfew, which is a form of chamomile.
Speaker: i mean, those three are probably the most common ones. CoQ10 as well. CoQ10 is a fourth one. And those are quite well documented. On my website, there's a lot of scientific articles.
Speaker: And one of them just really details all of these beautiful supplements that have been proven scientifically to help. My experience is they can help, but then the somehow the effect will disappear after some time because usually there is a domino effect. So here again, use your intuition.
Speaker: If it helps, continue. If it stopped helping, stop. Yeah? Yeah. You go with your common sense. Don't pay a lot. Don't pay too much. If it worked, it's great.
Speaker: Take that. And if it stopped working, then stop it. There's no point to overflow ah glass that is free. That's a really good analogy actually for supplementation because it's question I get a lot from people about what supplements to take. And quite often I think with multivitamins and you know different things, people are literally overflowing and already full glass.
Speaker: Yes, absolutely. And then you also mentioned a lot about your clients having an alternation between constipation and runny stools, right? And so that means that the biome is a bit off. And when it's off, the absorption is also slightly off.
Speaker: So sometimes I even say, you know what, keep, they were very expensive. They're probably great. Let's keep them. And once your biome is impeccable, then, you know, add them in and you'll extract the maximum benefits.
Speaker: Because sometimes you also talked about stress. If you overload your system with minerals and vitamins, you also stress your kidney system. you know If it's a lot to filter, is this it's sometimes too much. So you add the problem on top of what's going on. so The same we talked about food variety in case of doubt, ah variety, pause a bit, stop a bit.
Speaker: you know If you have doubts, but you're unsure, then you know what? Just go maybe every second day or do it for two months and then stop and see how you feel. Add one at a time. That can also help.
Speaker: The one thing I will say is if the supplement is making your biome go up, meaning being very liquid or very constipated, stop. This is not helping you. Okay, that's the one thing where you can feel the sign, but your bowel movements are not as frequent or not as good.
Speaker: Tana, stop. That's a sign. Stop right there. and Give it to your friend. Not for you. amazing. This has been such an amazing conversation, really, really insightful. And I think everyone listening, you know, will take a lot from that. And I think the main message that I'm really taking from this is listen to your body. Your body is always telling you what you need.
Speaker: And even if you're not really sure what that is yet, just stop and and really just give it some thought before before medicating the symptoms. Yes. Yes. It's a conversation. Listen, do your part of listening and then act and do micro movement. Yes. yeah And trial and error.
Speaker: Try things, see what works, but doesn't work. Try something else. or And I suppose give things time as well to work is another thing that I'm kind of getting from that too. You've mentioned a few times about your app. So I suppose last question would be if people would like to know more, where is the best place to find you and what you do in relation to working with clients? Yeah.
Speaker: So you can download the app. It's free of charge and you can start to track your migraines. I think understanding how they relate to your menstrual cycle, your bowel movements, etc. are super important. And then if you want to meet, you can go on my website, migraineheroes.com and book a time and we can talk for 90 minutes.
Speaker: It's only 30 US dollars, which I can explain. i think the first thing is to understand because sometimes we've talked a lot about intuition. If you've had migraines for two decades or three decades, you know, the intuition is just, it's really hard to have. You'll still have a lot, but not fully, right?
Speaker: And so just having that conversation, I find super helpful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so really he enjoyed this conversation and I know that our listeners will just get so much from this. So thank you. And to have a service available that's so affordable as well is absolutely amazing. Yes. Affordability is super important for us.
Speaker: Thank you. you
Speaker: I just want to say thank you so much for listening to the podcast. It really means so much to me that there are people out there actually listening to what I have to say and to the conversations that I'm having with others. So thank you so much.
Speaker: If you are enjoying the podcast, could you please make sure that you are subscribed? And if not, if you could hit that subscribe button, it really does make that much of a difference. Also, if you would like to leave a review on any of the episodes that you listen to that you particularly enjoy, i would love to hear what you have to say.
Speaker: And also, if there's an episode that you've enjoyed, please do share it on your social media, in your WhatsApp groups, with your friends. If you're sharing it on your stories, please tag myself in it. And whoever I'm interviewing, this would be greatly appreciated.
Speaker: Also, if you're interested in working with me and my wonderful team, please do you contact me about applying for coaching. So you can contact me at Kate Hamilton Health at gmail.com or on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all Kate Hamilton Health.
Speaker: and you will be able to apply for coaching. We can organize to have a chat and see if it's a good fit for you and get you moving towards your goals.
