Transcript
Speaker: There really needs to be more resources and opportunities, especially for women. That's something that is obviously really important for women to have in order to navigate challenges that they're undergoing throughout their career and to help give them support as they're climbing up the professional ladder.
Speaker: And so that's something I just felt really was missing and something that I learned if I would love to take on this opportunity and provide those chances for people to further develop themselves. I'm Tamina and I'm extending a heartfelt invitation to you as we join forces in reclaiming economic power for women in a world that is often structured against us.
Speaker: We'll dive into the minds of accomplished female leaders, investors and entrepreneurs to equip you with the confidence and knowledge to build wealth for yourself and other women. So buckle up, get ready to learn and be inspired to take action.
Speaker: This week's guest and I were initially connected through our mutual friend, Christina. Shout out to Christina in case she's listening. And then this guest invited me to speak at one of her events this past summer and it was just such a wonderful experience and I'm in awe of what she has built over the past couple of months. I'm talking about the one and only Marilyn Joyner.
Speaker: Marilyn is the founder and CEO of HerWorkplace and recently launched the workspace and digital career community to provide women and non -binary people with a safe space to build relationships, share stories, and exchange knowledge. HerWorkplace opened its first co -working space in New York City this past fall and plans to expand across the United States.
Speaker: What led Marilyn to build her workplace was her challenging corporate career navigating the male -dominated industry of commercial real estate. She struggled to find inexpensive and easily accessible careers resources, mentorship, and networking opportunities.
Speaker: She also discovered there was a need for more flexible work solutions and professional development support with the more than 2 million women who left the workforce during the pandemic and with over 72 % of women are working remotely and in a hybrid environment.
Speaker: Marilyn has spent over 10 years in commercial real estate working for top firms such as JLL and CBRE. She's represented a portfolio of Fortune 500s and growing companies on real estate initiatives across major markets with a focus on office workplace strategy. Some of her clients have also been co -working operations, including Conbean, which is what gave her experience in the future of workspace.
Speaker: Merylis has an MBA from both Columbia Business School and London Business School and a master's in real estate from Georgetown University. Marilyn, I'm so excited to have you. Welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Amazing. Let's dive in. And I always like to start out with asking my guests the same question. So my first question for you is, as we grow older and evolve in our personal growth, there's often
Speaker: beliefs or perceptions that we unlearn. I'm curious to hear from you, is there maybe something significant that you have unlearned in your journey towards advocating or gender equity specific?
Speaker: Yeah, you're exactly right. I was that woman that was in corporate, was climbing the ladder or trying to, and really looking for resources, networking opportunities, mentorship, sponsorship, and just opportunities to build relationships and build my own network.
Speaker: And being in corporate and working for this larger firm, I just felt there was such a huge lack of resources, inexpensive opportunities, easily accessible networking communities. And so that's something that I learned very early on of
Speaker: wow, there really needs to be more resources and opportunities, especially for women. And that's something that is obviously really important for women to have in order to navigate challenges that they're undergoing throughout their career and to help give them support as they're climbing up the professional
Speaker: ladder. And so that's something I just felt really was missing and something that I learned if I would love to take on this opportunity and provide those chances for people to further develop themselves. Yeah, I love that. And sometimes it just takes being in the moment and having the experiences and real time to identify a challenge or a pain point, which
Speaker: is so common for entrepreneurs, right? They experience something that is bothering them themselves or one of their loved ones, and then they try to build something that solves for that pain point. And I think her workplace is just a prime example of that, of your own personal evolution as a professional, right? So let's talk a little bit more about her workplace, specifically the topic of inclusivity, because we just heard
Speaker: In the intro, you just reiterated it as well. Her workplace was born out of that desire and need to provide more accessible networking opportunities to women and non -binary professionals. And Marilyn, I remember a couple of months ago, one of your LinkedIn posts went viral where you called out the Women's Network Chief.
Speaker: You wrote, and I'm going to read this out to everyone, during my executive MBA at Columbia Business School and London Business School, I often thought about the lack of gender equity in the modern workplace. I was experiencing it myself in my industry, commercial real estate. I also struggled to find inexpensive and easily accessible networking and career development opportunities outside of my organization.
Speaker: I understand and applaud companies like chief who are devoting their time to solving this issue. I know it is not an easy one to solve, but there are better ways, not rooted in exclusivity. I love that last sentence around not rooted in exclusivity and with over 4 ,000 engagements on your posts and counting, I clearly wasn't the only one. Why do you think this post and the message behind it resonated with so many women and non -binary professionals out there?
Speaker: I think it resonated because other women and non -binary people feel the same as I do. And I did throughout my own career working in this male -dominated space where I felt like an outsider and I felt like the other. And again, I struggled to find communities that were inclusive and made me feel welcomed in.
Speaker: and that have lower barrier to entries both from an accessibility standpoint, pricing model, as well as just the way that they operate. And so I posted this because I really wanted to get a better gauge on do other people feel this way and do they feel like there's something missing
Speaker: in the marketplace in regards to more inclusive communities that provide that safe space and welcoming environment, both from a digital and virtual platform as well as an in -person one. And so really it was just to get my finger on the pulse of, do other people feel this way or am I the only one? I think that was such a great way of testing the waters and getting some real time
Speaker: feedback from potential customers and potential members of your community. I mean, I know you couldn't anticipate that your posts would go viral, right? So that was a nice side effect. But I think you really spoke to a lot of people out there because let's be real, something like Chief is associated with a lot of like,
Speaker: prestige, so it's very elitist and that is something that I feel a lot of women can strive towards. But you also made a really good point in your post about membership ranges, I think like high, like 5 ,800 to like well over $7 ,000 per year, which is a lot of money. Great if your company pays for it, right? But you made that very accurate point of I don't see any men's networks charge that
Speaker: much money for men to get together and have the opportunity to talk about business and development. Maybe the golf club memberships are also quite expensive, but there is no formalized environments that would charge, and yet here we are. And to your point, it is difficult, right? And obviously when you start a company, you need to be able to make money to sustain yourself. But I totally agree that there is an alternative
Speaker: path towards success and making women and non -binary people feel more included. And that's exactly what you have built with her workplace, which is just so, so incredible. And going off of that viral success of your post before her workplace had even officially launched this past fall,
Speaker: You had a wait list of over 3 ,000 people who were interested in joining your membership community. And that's just so, so incredible. Curious to hear from you, Marilyn. What recommendations do you have for founders or business owners who are gearing up for their launch? May it be a community, a digital product, or even a brick and mortar business in order to build up that excitement ahead of time?
Speaker: Yeah, my recommendation would be to really focus on building the community. Even if it's a brick and mortar retail company or a CPG brand, you really want to build that customer base and build that loyalty from the very beginning. And that's something that I as a founder have learned very early on of
Speaker: the way that marketing has changed so much. And I am no expert in this. I'm obviously learning a lot as I go. But the one thing that I've learned so far is that historically, and even more recently, companies and brands were throwing marketing dollars towards Google Ads, Google Search, other online and web functions. And I think times have changed because
Speaker: People are really looking for brands that they feel connected with and that they feel included with as well. And so that's something that I built out from the very beginning of how can I ensure that every single customer or potential member that's coming in the door, how can I ensure that they fully understand who we are, what it is that we're building, what our missions and values are,
Speaker: And how can I continue to cater to whatever their needs may be? And I think it's really hard to do that, obviously, with other marketing channels and efforts, which is why building that brand's loyalty and really thinking so much about every single customer, I think that's really important and that's something that really helped us build that wait list and
Speaker: has continued to help us as we're onboarding new members onto our platform. I think the other part of it too that adds to that is the influencer market is continuing to grow and change and it's so important for founders to really be the influencers of their brands, which is something that I myself am continuing to evolve with and I'm working on my own brand.
Speaker: The fact that one of my LinkedIn posts ended up going viral, that really helped me build my own voice and spread the word about what it was that I was working on and launching with her workplace.
Speaker: I'm continuing to do that of how can I build my own personal brand to really coincide with her workplace and ensure that all of our customers truly know who I am and why it is that I'm building what I'm building. I love that last point because something that I've certainly noticed over the past couple of years is that people brands,
Speaker: many cases have become so much stronger than business brands. If we think about, let's say, Bo St. John was the former CMO of Netflix, or we think about Jay Shetty, for example. All people who are showing up in the most authentic way possible were not afraid to be vulnerable, to share their failures, acknowledge mistakes.
Speaker: And just live a life that is in cruel alignment with their passions and ultimately their values. And I think when you're able to portray that online, people are increasingly more likely to establish some sort of an emotional connection with you.
Speaker: were actually like met you in person or you never had a conversation. When I think about some of the people that I follow online, I'm like, yeah, there's automatically like a certain level of trust because that person has gone out of their way to add value to my feed, to share some behind the scenes of their life or their career. And it's just so
Speaker: So powerful and I agree we're just at the beginning of this movement and I'm just so excited to see how you continue to evolve and I love seeing that you've become more active on LinkedIn as well. You share about all the amazing events that are happening.
Speaker: Also, which I think is so, so important and that from my perspective, core part of the Her Workplace brand is you are really, really good at providing those key moments of visibility for so many different women and non -binary professionals that you invite speakers to your events for.
Speaker: fire site chats, panels, and whatnot. And I think that is something that people should be more intentional about. Let people know when you love what they're doing. Give them a shout out on social media, for example. Reshare their content to generate a couple of additional views on their work.
Speaker: So I think that's just so, so wonderful. And I'm excited to see how you continue to evolve and become more present as that founder influencer, because at the end of the day, I totally think it's true that
Speaker: Your personal brand is something that you can carry with you no matter where you go. Your company, if you still work in corporate, they don't own your personal brand, do. And what I've come to notice as well, I've given a couple of talks in personal branding as well. And most people actually don't have control of their personal brands. I would argue every single person has a personal brand because it's a result of the way you show up on a daily basis with your
Speaker: cool workers, your family, your friends, whoever you're interacting with. And the things you talk about, the things that you care about, all of that makes up for your personal brand. And at the end of the day, it's sort of like a promise to the people around you, how you show up each and every single day.
Speaker: But a lot of people don't take control of their personal brand and they let other people dictate it for them. So I think it's so important for someone, especially who is an entrepreneur, who is building something from scratch to be very intentional and thoughtful about placing certain messages or topics.
Speaker: on Instagram, LinkedIn, or wherever online to ensure that your audience and potential future customers are creating that association with that topic with your name. Right. And I think this is a space that female founders in particular can really capitalize on because women are really good at building that connection and being more open and being
Speaker: more vulnerable. And I think we've moved away from that girl boss era of founders that have come and gone that kind of built up this exclusivity of like being untouched. You never
Speaker: really saw them around. It was really hard to get a meeting with them or it was really hard to get in touch with them. And we definitely moved away from that to where customers and people within these brand communities, they want to see the founder. They want for it to be easily accessible and they want to get to know her on a deeper level.
Speaker: And that's really what I'm trying to do. I think there's a lot of differentiation there and a huge opportunity for other founders like myself to be open and to really connect with their customers on a deeper level. Definitely.
Speaker: And you show up to every single event that you're hosting, right? Which sometimes multiple for a week, you're happening in the evening, usually until nine, 10 PM, right? You could also say, Oh no, I'm going to hire someone who was just going to be there and not show your face. But you're just very intentional about welcoming your speakers into the space as I've personal experience with that. And just making everyone feel, feel very welcome. And I've always felt like you're.
Speaker: very approachable, and I think that's also a key to your success at the end of the day. Definitely. You transitioned from corporate America, having worked in commercial real estate for quite some time, to entrepreneurship fairly recently. Curious to hear from you, Marilyn, how you prepare emotionally, professionally, and financially.
Speaker: Well, I will say there was very little preparation. I actually never saw myself becoming an entrepreneur. Of course, I have the entrepreneurship. It truly is who I am. And being in the commercial real estate space as a broker, you pretty much are an entrepreneur. I was an independent contractor all throughout my career with the firms I was with.
Speaker: But I actually wanted to climb the corporate ladder and I had my eyes set on being in the C -suite within one of these larger commercial real estate firms because I was really passionate and always have been very passionate about supporting
Speaker: women in the workplace. And if you're not as familiar with the commercial real estate space, it's heavily male dominated. Within the firm, I was working for one of the top firms. For example, our New York City office had over 250 male brokers, and I kid you not only 18 women, including myself.
Speaker: And with commercial real estate brokerage, you're on full commission. And so your promotions and your title advances are tied to your revenue. And a lot of that revenue is controlled by and comes from the leaders within your firm and the people that you're working with, which most of them are men.
Speaker: So I wanted to paint this picture because I really struggled throughout my career. I wanted to continue to stay in brokerage, but then pivot to a C -level position so that I could have more of an impact of ensuring that women like myself who were in these positions could really have a great and strong path towards advancement.
Speaker: And so what happened was I was experiencing all these challenges myself. And as we hit the pandemic and going through the pandemic in brokerage, a lot of companies didn't go back to an office. They were shedding their office space. The commercial real estate industry has continued to struggle and is slowly correcting itself. I started thinking about, should I be taking another career path?
Speaker: this industry is just really having a tough time and I myself have struggled as well. So what other opportunities are there for me? And so all of these thoughts were coming at me when I was about to graduate from business school. In business school, I had such a great opportunity because it really helped me to step outside of my comfort zone, which my comfort zone was real estate.
Speaker: And it helped me to better understand all of the different industries and career opportunities that were out there outside of this siloed space I had been in. And so at the end of last year, I was trying to hang on
Speaker: just to keep going because I felt a little bit of guilt. Have I been in this industry for 10 years? Is it time to throw in the towel? I ended up just taking the leap because I thought to myself, it's now or never. I'm still fairly young in my career. If I'm going to take this risk both on a professional and personal level, what do I have to lose at this point in my life?
Speaker: So it was December 31st when I officially resigned from my company and I wanted to go into the new year with just this new image of myself and I wanted to go in with a new career opportunity and so it was obviously a really
Speaker: big decision to make. It took me about two years to make that decision. And through that, I was planning, okay, what does this look like? How can I combine both my experience in real estate brokerage with my passion to better support and advocate for women in the workplace? And so that's how her workplace evolved. So it took about two years of planning and preparing and really digging into my own self -discovery.
Speaker: Where do I see my career going? Well, first of all, I just want to re -emphasize the point you made earlier, 250 male employees, let that sink in for a hot second. That's absolutely, even for an industry that is male -dominated, it's just mind -blowing. Yeah. Most of the rooms I went in, I was the only woman.
Speaker: And it is so challenging to constantly be thrown with your own imposter syndrome and feeling insecure and being afraid to speak up. And I still struggle with those things. I think a lot of women do, and it only elevates it and makes it worse when you're in those types of environments on a daily basis.
Speaker: Well, I'm really glad you have left that line. I mean, I'm sure you probably wouldn't have found it her workplace in the first place if it hadn't been for that experience in that very male dominated environment, right? So past.
Speaker: experiences, the good and the bad ones tend to always inform our future decisions. And her workplace is already, I would argue, pretty successful. But as it continues to blow up, it's just going to make for a hell of a story. You're right. It felt like, to me, a bad relationship because it was hard for me to see the other opportunities that were outside of it. And it was so toxic that it was really holding me back.
Speaker: in my career and it was holding me back financially, professionally, in so many ways. It was really hitting at my confidence on a daily basis. And so I've always said that it was this toxic relationship that it took me a while to figure out, oh my gosh, I need to get out of this. And it took me some time to leave.
Speaker: Yeah, and I appreciate you actually making that point of saying like, hey, this was a two year long process. I didn't just make that decision impulsively overnight. I'd been emotionally preparing for this. It took a lot of courage to leave.
Speaker: that professional identity of having worked in commercial real estate for a decade behind an embark on a completely new journey that you didn't really have any experience in. So that takes a lot of courage because, I mean, I'm assuming 10 years in industry, you must have been.
Speaker: somewhat successful in commercial real estate. Otherwise you probably would have lasted that long to begin with and then completely switching ears and trying to reinvent yourself and rebuild your brand from scratch in a completely different context. I mean, that takes ovaries to do, right? And a lot of courage. So.
Speaker: Yeah, kudos to you because I can imagine that there is a lot of people out there who have similar experiences. In fact, I have a lot of friends who are working in male dominated industries, finance being a prime example. And they've also shared horrendous stories, sexism and discrimination and stupid comments that they've had to endure for quite some time. But at the end of the day, it is a leap.
Speaker: to go out and do your own thing. And not everyone is going to take that leap, but very proud of you for having stood up for yourself. And as a result of that, you're now in a position where you can pay it forward to other women who might have experienced something similar and grow a very thoughtful, close -knit community as a result of that. So, and a beautiful evolution. Thank you.
Speaker: Marilyn, let's talk about business models and fundraising a little bit. Her workplace currently, as of this recording, has three membership tiers, a free digital membership, a digital membership with additional perks, which is priced at $35 per month. And then there's the physical workplace membership at $105 per month, which also includes the digital perks.
Speaker: That's a great way to generate monthly recurring revenue, but I also know that you were gearing up for fundraising as well this past summer and really benefited from the Dream Ventures accelerator you participated in. Could you talk a little bit more about that experience around thinking about fundraising, the biggest learnings from the accelerator program, and why you would recommend female founders joining a program like Dream Ventures?
Speaker: Yeah, of course. So I guess to start with how I built out the business model and the pricing model, my three top priorities when building out this community, the first, accessibility. So that comes from like the integrating of technology, building out physical workspaces that are inclusive and welcoming.
Speaker: The second is affordability. So ensuring that our membership tiers are affordable and that women who are even earlier on in their career still can be part of it because of the lower pricing model compared to our competitors. And I actually was really able to do that because of my real estate experience. We are actually not signing traditional lease deals to take on physical space.
Speaker: we're doing a structured deal, which is basically the landlord is an investor, quote unquote, in the company. And so they're taking a percentage of the profits in exchange for a traditional basement structure. So because we're capitalizing on the real estate market and building out these unique deal structures, when security and space, it's allowed for us to be more flexible in our pricing model.
Speaker: So that's number two and then number three is inclusivity, building this space both virtually and in person that is welcoming and inclusive and really helps for our customers and people coming into our space to feel seen and heard and welcomed. So back to the pricing model, again, really important that we kept it affordable.
Speaker: and that will continue on as we scale and grow. I have actually been bootstrapping the business on my own because this is something that a lot of female founders in particular do. We take so much more time and thinking and evolving and testing our models.
Speaker: So that's what I did this summer when we had built out our 3 ,000 person wait list in the spring and when we launched our summer pop -up in New York of hosting co -working days and networking events which you came to and supported. I've over the past several months continued to test the model and test the community.
Speaker: I finally feel like now I have a strong gauge on where this is going and if it's viable, which it is because we're still operating and we've taken on and opened our first co -working space in New York and launch our platform.
Speaker: But my recommendation throughout my own process of building this business so far is to be really scrappy in the beginning. And that's something that I've been very intentional with, trying to keep costs as low as possible so that I can truly grow the business from a very meaningful place as well as putting in the work for it to be a long -term success.
Speaker: rather than this short term success that ends up dying earlier on because maybe you took on too much funding, you spent too much in the beginning. So that's one thing that I've really prioritized and at the same time have joined other female founder focused communities, went through the Dream Ventures Accelerator to continue to build my own founder network and to really get a look, get a better gauge on how companies operate as well as what fundraising looks like.
Speaker: Because I've had spent so much time in real estate and yes, I have an MBA, but I've never raised money for a company before. I've never been in the startup scene or worked in venture capital or private equity. So I wanted to just get my feet wet and better understand what other founders are doing and what their strategies look like.
Speaker: I've been having conversations with investors from VC investors to angels. My honest opinion is the landscape of VC in particular right now is just really tough. It's hard for founders to raise, especially underrepresented founders. At the same time, we're still in a
Speaker: economy that's... So though I've had some really great conversations, most of the investors I've talked to are in this PropTech space. And my opinion has been so far, I really haven't found that investor that truly understands the real estate deal structures I'm doing, understands the real estate market.
Speaker: and can really help me grow. I just haven't found the right fit. And so we're actually going to be opening a founder -led SPV in the next few weeks for accredited investors who are within our community, angels, friends and family, just to get us to that next.
Speaker: step of growth. And it's so funny, every conversation I've had with VCs and other investors, just about what it is that we're building, everyone immediately thinks, oh, you need money for the real estate. I actually don't need money for the real estate because of the structures that we're doing and the deals that we're signing. And all of that has been built with my own relationships in the industry and being
Speaker: experienced in negotiating these types of structures for other co -working operators, we actually need the money to hire part -time staff who can help manage our space, to hire one or two full -time people that can help me grow the platform, and to invest more in sales and marketing.
Speaker: So that's where we are now. My recommendation again would be to really get involved with accelerators, other communities to where you can lean on those people for advice and recommendations and get a better understanding of how they're building their companies. And also again, going back to being really scrappy, being scrappy as possible, especially in the beginning phases.
Speaker: So that you're really ensuring that you have a strong pulse on this company is viable and it could be a longer term success. I feel like I've just learned so much right now of the past couple of minutes alone. And there's a couple of really great takeaways.
Speaker: that I have. So the first one is just like keep testing. Right? You're mentioning didn't really know how much I could charge, but I knew that I wanted it to be accessible and inclusive. And I love that you also pointed out you wanted it to be.
Speaker: inclusive of younger people because as someone who is used to being the youngest person in most rooms that she's entering, there oftentimes is a financial barrier to these types of networking opportunities where people were 10, 20 years my age, yes, a couple hundred dollars for an event is something that especially in New York City and Manhattan, a lot of people can't afford, but to me, that's still a good chunk of money. So that's something that I really loved. So test your hypotheses and that will inform you.
Speaker: in terms of, okay, is this the right pricing model and the right structure that will allow me to be accessible? So that's number one. The second one, I think, when in doubt, always rely on your expertise and your past experience. I mean, what you just shared about
Speaker: the commercial real estate agreement that you put in place, which, yeah, I thought real estate was going to be a big challenge for you as well, just from a pricing perspective. But no, you were able to rely on your experience having negotiated so many deals prior to becoming a full -time entrepreneur. I think that's just genius. And then the last one is stick to your gut because maybe
Speaker: would have been an opportunity for some investor to come in. But if you feel like that they're not the right partner to take on because they don't understand your strategy and your approach and you're like, I don't know if this is the right person to trust, then it's probably better to wait it out a little bit longer and be a little bit more patient to wait for the right partner to come around who will
Speaker: get it and who will trust you and trust in your expertise. So super, super impressive that you have been bootstrapping yourself for quite some time now. And now again, you have some recurring revenue coming in, which is, which is fantastic. But also to your point, putting yourself in a position where you can make more educated decisions about fundraising as well. You didn't necessarily know much about the BC space before participating in Dream Ventures Accelerator.
Speaker: But then you made the decision, okay, this could be a viable option for me, but it's really important to me to have, again, the right person joining my cap table. So just love that you truly embody someone who is sticking to their guts and is acting alongside her values, because I think that is very, very important. And again, it goes back to building an authentic personal brand as well. So at the end of the day, everything is interconnected.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I mean, never raise these. We've actually profited and we just hit month one. And so, of course, I'm looking for a few investors, individual investors that can just help me get to that X level and keep going and growing. But I don't even know if I'll ever go at the VC route. I just think that VC puts a lot of pressure on growth. And I think from what I've seen, and I've actually worked inside of a startup for a brief
Speaker: seconds. So I've seen how startups operate after receiving a big chunk of funding. I've been in it before. And I think that there are just some really dumb decisions sometimes being made. And that's what we've seen with some other companies and competitors of mine in the past. I've actually represented one of our biggest competitors that's no longer around anymore.
Speaker: never actually did a deal with them or else they wanted to sign the deal that they did. But they had 13 locations and they were signing 15 -year leases, not getting market concessions. They were spending millions of dollars on furniture per location.
Speaker: And so I think a lot of that had to do with the people that were behind them and that were pushing them for growth. And two, in this space that I'm in real estate, it's really hard to find those investors that understand the real estate market and understand office leasing in particular.
Speaker: I'm so glad you have that commercial real estate background, even though it was a top school, but wow, yeah, huge, absolutely insane. And I think what you were mentioning earlier in regards to the SPV, for listeners out there, the special purpose vehicle allows accredited investors to basically pool their money and make an investment altogether.
Speaker: We've talked about this a few times on the show, but for people who might be new to the podcast, just wanted to make sure that I explained that briefly. But I think for you and her workplace, it makes so much sense because it goes back to community, which sits at the core of her workplace. So why not have your community help you scale?
Speaker: But then also have your community members benefit from the financial success down the road. I think it's a no brainer and I believe we'll see more and more companies take advantage of that because going back to your point of it being challenging right now and you see in there being these insane
Speaker: growth expectations when you have a VC, like the minimum return on your investment that they usually expect is 10x, right? If they don't see potential to reach 10x, then it's not an appealing deal for them at all. But there might be people, for example, your community members who strongly align with the mission of a workplace, and they would be happy with doubling or tripling their money, but not necessarily having to 10x it.
Speaker: That's a great approach. Hi, Marilyn. I have one final question for you because I don't only like to start out with the same question for each of my guests. I also like to close with the same one. Love that. Thank you. So I wanted to imagine that you have a power to enact a single universally binding law that every organization must obey and it needs to be specifically designed to uplift women's economic status. What law would that be?
Speaker: Hmm, that's a hard question. I would say having a clear path of promotion and that promotion being tied to increased pay because that's something that my organization and industry does not have because promotion is tied to your commissions, but other people are controlling what those commissions are. And so I think some organizations may already have this
Speaker: in place, but having it more on a set schedule of tying what your output is with whatever your title permission is going to be and what that pay raise is and having transparency across that.
Speaker: Because inside of her workplace, we've heard so many stories of women that look at other colleagues and peers within their organization and come to find out that they're being paid way less than others that say maybe doing the same amount of work or less work than they are. So I think even more pay transparency and truly investing in the professional development of women inside the organization.
Speaker: I love that. Paid transparency is so, so important because if you're not being transparent about the pay, how else are you supposed to uncover injustices? Luckily in the United States, it is a legally protected law for people working corporate, for example, to talk about their salaries with
Speaker: their coworkers, like an employer cannot retaliate against you if you discuss pay and salary with, with your colleagues, which I think is super, super important. But yes, well, there is a lot of room for improvement when it comes to actually being transparent about ranges and not just base salary, but total compensation, especially in commercial real estate. As you were stating previously, everything is based on commissions. I work in sales myself. So like.
Speaker: commission is, is also a big part of my total compensation. And it also doesn't feel great when you find out that the person on the same level, same job title is making like 20, 30, 40 % more than you. And unfortunately sometimes or oftentimes it is women and minorities who are the ones who are discriminated against. So yes, love that so much.
Speaker: Marilyn, thank you so, so much for your time. This was such a wonderful conversation. I'm so proud of everything that you have accomplished and will continue to accomplish with her workplace. And we'll make sure to, to link to a workplace in the show notes so everyone can check it out, especially for the folks who are based in New York city. And yeah, thank you so much for. Right. So great. Thank you.
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