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Overcoming Sexism in the Beverage Industry: Why We Need a Paradigm Shift in Venture Capital with the Founder of Ego Tequila
77 Plays1 year ago
Update: I recently launched my newsletter, The Sheconomist, and would love for you to subscribe: sheconomist.com - I share so many tools and resources that help young, high-achieving women with radical money and career self-advocacy.
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In this week's episode, we have the pleasure of sitting down with Rikki Kelly , the CEO and leader behind Ego Tequila. Rikki's journey from launching Ego Tequila in July 2021 to its remarkable growth, with distribution expanding to over 60 stores across Texas and aiming for over 300 by 2024, is nothing short of inspiring.
Our conversation with Rikki delves into the intricate dynamics of entrepreneurship, particularly highlighting the challenge of unlearning societal norms that discourage vulnerability, especially prevalent among Black women.
As Rikki shares her experiences, she sheds light on the unforgiving nature of the tequila industry, particularly for women, recounting instances of encountering sexism and adversity from male counterparts. Despite facing such challenges, Rikki emphasizes the importance of resilience and having a robust support system, acknowledging the invaluable support she received from fellow women in the industry.
From bootstrapping initially, to navigating the complexities of landing angel investors and venture capitalists, Rikki reflects on the steep learning curve and highlights the need for a paradigm shift in the venture capital landscape, advocating for measures to ensure genuine support and commitment from investors towards underrepresented founders.
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Transcript
Gratitude and Economic Empowerment
00:00:00
Speaker
The women in this industry, oh man, they have given me so much grace. They have taken me in and they've shown me so much love and compassion. So I'm grateful for every single woman that I've encountered on this industry. I'm Tamina and I'm extending a heartfelt invitation to you as we join forces in reclaiming economic power for women in a world that is often structured against us.
00:00:26
Speaker
We'll dive into the minds of accomplished female leaders, investors and entrepreneurs to equip you with the confidence and knowledge to build wealth for yourself and other women. So buckle up, get ready to learn and be inspired to take action.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome back, everyone.
Introduction to Ricky Kelly
00:00:43
Speaker
I am so excited for you all to meet this week's founder, the one and only Ricky Kelly. Ricky is the CEO and visionary leader at Ego Tequila, a 100% pure agave tequila brand based out of the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Ricky holds an executive certificate from the Dartmouth Tuck School of Business and also just graduated from Goldman Sachs's 1 million
00:01:11
Speaker
black women program. Since launching in July of 2021, Ego Tequila has been sold in over 60 stores across Texas and is on track to surpassing 300 stores in Texas for 2024.
00:01:26
Speaker
Super exciting to talk to Ricky about everything, entrepreneurship, fundraising, and whatnot. Let me officially welcome Ricky to the show. Welcome, Ricky. I'm so excited to have you. Thank you for having me on. It's truly an honor. Amazing. Let's dive in, Ricky, because we have a lot of ground to cover today.
00:01:44
Speaker
I always like to start out asking the same question to all of my guests. So the thing with growing older is that we tend to evolve in our personal growth, which is great. But as part of that process, we often unlearn certain beliefs or perceptions. Curious to hear from you, Ricky, is there maybe something significant that you have unlearned?
Unlearning Perceptions
00:02:05
Speaker
and your journey towards advocating for gender equity and making waves in the world of entrepreneurship as a black woman, especially in an industry that is very male dominated.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, I'm learning that vulnerability is frowned upon or it's a sham. Growing up, the women in my family, they never displayed any kind of emotional weakness. I started to simulate that too as I progressed through life and also being put in situations. I've always felt that any difficult situation I come across, just to tackle it, don't show any weakness, don't show no fear.
00:02:42
Speaker
Just keep it moving, get it handled, and that's it. But this business has really pushed me to my limits. And I feel that it's okay to display vulnerability because people, your audience, your community, they want to see the authenticity. I think that is a really good way to bring your audience and your customers in. And that's also taking them along the journey. But yeah, vulnerability, especially for black women, it's always been something that
00:03:09
Speaker
I guess it wouldn't be frowned upon, but we just never did it. We were always taught. We didn't have time to be vulnerable. You know, we had so many things to take care of. And even in my business, I've always felt I can't display vulnerability. I got so much to do. I got so many things I need to accomplish, but no, vulnerability is okay. And I feel that is something that I'm starting to unlearn.
00:03:29
Speaker
And I feel if I don't unlearn that quickly, then a lot of women who are looking up to me or who are supporting me, who are rooting for me, that possibly want to partake on this journey, that may set them up for not being successful in their journey. That's something I'm trying to unlearn.
00:03:45
Speaker
Well, thank you for sharing and your vulnerability there, Ricky. I think it's wonderful that you bring that up because it's something that very much resonates with me too. My core values are actually authenticity and vulnerability. And I bring this up in the show all the time and it's really important for me.
00:04:03
Speaker
to create and hold space for other women to show up as their most authentic selves themselves in this podcast. And I think especially for you, there are so many stereotypes out there about black women. There's this expectation that you always have to be super strong and showcase to the world that
00:04:21
Speaker
You're the strong individual that can't be taken down. But honestly, sometimes you've got to take a step back and just feel through all of the emotions. As an entrepreneur, you're mentioning it, emotional roller coaster, to say the least. And it's okay to also sometimes tell the world, hey, I'm actually not doing okay. And that's part of the human experience. I'm not a machine. I'm human. And I have feelings. I have emotions. So I'm so glad that you highlighted.
00:04:49
Speaker
that. And I think the world that we live in would be a lot better for everyone, not just for women, not just for people of color, but truly for everyone if we allowed ourselves to show up more vulnerably and more authentically if we
00:05:05
Speaker
didn't have to always think about how do I play my cards the right way and make sure that I'm perceived as someone who is always put together and has their shit together. And I do think especially post pandemic, that's a trend that we've been seeing a lot more people are actually craving to connect with other people in a real meaningful way. We're all
00:05:29
Speaker
Craving community and as someone who is obviously building a community community of customers. It's so important for founders to build community nowadays because.
Building Community and Relationships
00:05:41
Speaker
People want to have a trusted relationship with founders, with people that they buy from. And I think that is especially the case for women consumers. I think that's definitely one of those big trends that we've seen emerge throughout the pandemic. It's already been a trend before, but I think the pandemic only accelerated that. So I'm so glad that you brought that up for sure.
00:06:08
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ricky. Well, look, I got to be honest with you, Ricky. I actually am not the biggest fan of Tequila because when I was much younger, when I used to drink it somewhat frequently, I had a little bit of a bad experience and it doesn't matter which one it is, even the good stuff. I've tried it.
00:06:31
Speaker
And it's very unfortunate considering that I'm actually dating a Mexican-American. I'm down in Mexico pretty frequently, but have just so much respect for you and the fact that you're just shaking up this entire industry because beverage industry as a whole is unfortunately still very, very male-dominated. Having spent a good amount of time in Mexico myself, I've personally experienced that machismo can still be very strong in many parts of Mexico.
00:07:00
Speaker
Interested in learning from you, Ricky, how do you navigate that environment?
Challenges with Male Counterparts
00:07:05
Speaker
Do you have any insightful anecdotes to share with our audience? Yeah, I first want to start out to say it is unfortunate that your experience with tequila has not been the best. And, you know, I hear that all the time. You know, people's first experience with tequila happened in college. They probably had some really cheap bottom shelf tequila filled with extreme, an extreme amount of additives. And I know there's a market for it, but
00:07:30
Speaker
brands like that totally do a disservice to the tequila industry. But when I've been telling people that this industry is unforgiving, it really is for women. And what I mean by that, it goes back to your last question. You know, me having the unlearned vulnerability is a sham, but
00:07:48
Speaker
I have to start displaying some vulnerability because like I said, this industry, yes, it is unforgiving. I've had some really bad encounters with guys or with men. And that's from any area of my business, whether that's in sales, operations, possible investors. I've always been scared to show my emotions and to show my mistakes. And if I do, I always felt that it was a reflection of my business.
00:08:16
Speaker
And going back to the whole vulnerability thing, I was scared to show vulnerability. I've always tried to make it seem that I had it together because of the way this industry operates. First distributor, he was terrible. I landed a large account and I landed an account with Specs. And when I first got the account, I had asked him, Hey, what locations are we in? Because we were in many locations throughout Texas.
00:08:39
Speaker
And so he was like, I don't have a list of them. What you can do is you can go into your local specs and find out what locations you're in. I was like, what? Who does that? And it was not only that it was other things he was getting into with some of my retailers. And it was just a really bad look for my brand. So I had sold out of my inventory and I made the decision that I was going to sever the contract because it needed to happen.
00:09:04
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that was a terrible experience. And when it was like finally over, once we finally like the contract ended, at the end of his email, he wrote the word trash. Straight up called me trash.
00:09:16
Speaker
Yes. No, he did not. Girl, yes. I will send you the email. Yes. Yeah. And I was just like, Jesus Christ, is this what this industry is going to be like? And fortunately, it is like that. I feel like he's the first, but he's not going to be the last. Yeah. I'm going to experience that throughout this journey, but I've been navigating it by having a good support system. And some tequila.
00:09:39
Speaker
Some good margaritas, that helps. But having a really good support system has been vital in me pushing forward. That's what I could say to that. A good support system. And I will say too that the women in this industry, oh man, they have given me so much grace. They have taken me in and they've shown me so much love and compassion. So I'm grateful for every single woman that I've encountered on this industry. Not a single one has treated me like some of the men on this industry.
00:10:06
Speaker
I'm not gonna say all men have been that way because one of the guys, he's on my team and he's a mentor to me and he's always giving me so much wisdom, so much good advice and support. I'm grateful for him. So not all men are like that, but the industry itself is just, yeah, it's tough, it's tough.
00:10:24
Speaker
Wow. I don't even know what to say, Ricky, because I expected a Brenda story, but this, it's just ridiculous. Straight up ridiculous. But again, thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing. And honestly, I just hope that a few years from now when you're going to be rich and famous.
00:10:42
Speaker
that guy is going to have some serious regrets and hopefully we'll be reading about him that trash bag because he's the trash bag let's be real we're reading about that in your memoir one day that's that's that's speaking into existence
00:10:57
Speaker
Yep, speaking into existence, manifesting all of that. But on the flip side, let's focus on the positive because I'm so glad to hear that you were still able to learn a lot and benefit from the advice and emotional support from so many other people out there, including
00:11:16
Speaker
Many, many women, definitely also a big focus of this podcast, the notion of women supporting women because there's still a lot of work that needs to be done in the entrepreneurial world. And I think it is so magical.
00:11:33
Speaker
when women come together in support of one another. I actually just recently co-hosted this in-person event in New York City where I'm based with two other entrepreneurial women in my network and we all brought our communities together in one space and we ended up having
00:11:51
Speaker
70, 80 or 90 women in one room, everyone got up and got to kind of pitch themselves, pitch the ideas and proactively ask for help. May that be, hey, I'm looking for an investor. Hey, I'm looking for a co-founder. Hey, I'm looking for people who test out my MVP or my product or, hey, I'm pivoting in my career and I'm looking.
00:12:11
Speaker
to pivot into this industry. Do you have any connections that you can introduce me to? And so on. And we literally had dozens of women stand up, share their story. And afterwards we got to Mingla network
Networking and Support Events
00:12:22
Speaker
and people got to exchange LinkedIn's and we're like, Hey, you should meet this friend of mine. And Hey, I'm actually an angel investor and so on. And it was just so, so magical to have facilitated that and watch this magic unfold in front of my eyes. And just, yeah, again, a testament to the power of community and
00:12:41
Speaker
people coming together in support of one another. No, that's amazing. That's very intentional too. I'd love to be in that room. Yes. Next time when you're back in New York would obviously love to have you and put on another event, but yeah. In the meantime, we're now connected and our communities are now also connected, which is exciting.
00:13:01
Speaker
And there's tons of people in my network who love tequila so happily recommend your brand to them. We're all about always recommending women owned brands. So it's going to be great. And hopefully there's going to be a big national and international expansion for you go tequila in the years to come. Yes, that's the goal.
00:13:21
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Well, look, let's pivot a little bit and talk about how broken the VC system is. But just to reiterate, less than 2% of all VC funding goes to women founders. Less than 1% of VC dollars go to founders who are women of color. For 2021, there were only 93 Black women in the United States who had ever raised a million dollars or more in funding. The fact that we can precisely count that number is just so freaking
00:13:52
Speaker
And Ricky, I'm sure you knew all of this as you started on your entrepreneurial journey. Obviously it's always different when you're going through it yourself. But at the same time, women and people of color can't just wait around for men and white people to finally become aware of their unconscious biases. And I know that you were able to raise from angels before, which is amazing. Curious to hear from you, Ricky, how did you approach fundraising overall and where did you see success?
Fundraising Challenges and Reflections
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah, so prior to me launching, I was bootstrapped. And knowing what I know now, bootstrapping a spirit brand is just insane. But I bootstrapped, I was using my paychecks and my savings, and then my mom was also putting up a lot of capital for the brand as well. So when I launched, I'm like, all right, look, you've got to stop asking your mom for money.
00:14:43
Speaker
There's money out there and you've proven that you started a business and you have some product on the shelf. Proof is right there. So it shouldn't be the heart, right? Cause you have product on the shelf. Oh no, that was not the case. Also, I didn't know what I was doing. There was no blueprint for me, no matter how much I Google searched.
00:15:02
Speaker
It wasn't chat GPT, so I couldn't really ask them. And at that time, I really didn't have anybody in my corner to help guide me on what that process was like. So I didn't know what I was doing, but I had a sense of what to do. And I kind of just followed that path. And a year after I launched, I landed my first angel. And then a few months after that, I landed a VC. Even still, I'm currently fundraising right now. And I still don't know if what I'm doing is right.
00:15:30
Speaker
Now, I've surrounded myself with a lot of women that have done this in the past and they've really guided me along the way, but there will never be a blueprint to fundraising. I don't think that will ever exist. I felt that I have made some mistakes that I don't want to really dive too deep into, but
00:15:49
Speaker
I have made some mistakes along that journey that could potentially impact my business in the future. And this fundraising journey has really opened my eyes to mission-based VCs or angel groups. I've learned to treat everyone the same just because you say, this is what you're all about, but is that really your bottom line? And you can really tell if that's their bottom line by the terms that they send over. That's something that I'm really learning.
00:16:15
Speaker
on this fundraising journey. But again, I don't think I would be where I'm at in my brand if I didn't have my angel on board. She has extended me so much grace, so much love, so much support. I really should have leaned in more on her in the beginning.
00:16:31
Speaker
and continue doing some more outreaching efforts to look for other angels. But going forward, if I land on another angel investor or an angel group, any investor, I hope that they have the same similarities as my current angel investor because she's a godsend to me. It's also a tough journey too, just fundraising in general. I always like to say sometimes it just takes one person to say yes and one person to take a chance on you. And it sounds like as if that is the angel investor that
00:17:01
Speaker
you have that is extending a lot of support, grace, obviously capital as well. So I'm so glad that you have someone like that in your life that you can rely on because it's not a given, especially right now. Fundraising is really hard in this current climate and nobody really knows how long it's going to last. I know tons of founders who were hoping to raise in 2023, but weren't
00:17:27
Speaker
able to do so successfully. They either tried to extend their runway and wanted to push it into the first quarter of 2024, but others decided to fundraise but didn't meet their goal. So it's a little disheartening because so much is just outside of your control. Capital all of a sudden being very expensive and BC slowing down outside of your control. And I think in moments like that,
00:17:53
Speaker
becoming even more important to be able to rely on your support system, on the select individuals who are still willing to support and extending you not just money, but they are committed because they believe in you as a person and it doesn't matter if it's 2021, 2023, or 2024. If it's a good idea, it's a good idea, right? So I think that is really, really important there as well.
00:18:17
Speaker
Do you want to add anything? Yeah. I've also been learning to
Belief in the Entrepreneur
00:18:21
Speaker
your point. It's more about just the money. You need to believe in me first before you believe in my brand. Yeah. I mean, I'll show you my pitch deck and you can follow up with the branding and everything, the bottles, all of it, but you have to believe in me first. And as a founder, I'm going to make mistakes, but I'm going to provide you a plan and let you know, yes, these are my mistakes. This is what I rectified. And this is the track that we're on right now to get us to this point. I need you to believe in me and all founders need that.
00:18:47
Speaker
Don't just believe in my idea, believe in the entrepreneur, believe in the founder. And my angel investor, she's definitely like that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And especially in the early stages for like angel pre-seed seed, and I would argue even Series A, you gotta believe more in the founder or founding team than you have to in the actual product because we've seen- Right.
00:19:06
Speaker
Many times that entrepreneurs have to pivot. They might come up with an MVP or something, but it doesn't resonate. But there's something about it, an idea, even if it's tiny, that still might work. And then you have to shift gears. And that's completely normal. And that's part of the entrepreneurial.
00:19:25
Speaker
journey, oftentimes even entire branding and names change. Entrepreneurs got to give themselves some grace and they need some grace to be extended by investors as well. As long as you remain committed and you are conveying that you're in it for the long run and you can showcase that you've been able to pick yourself up again after disappointment and God knows how many knows.
00:19:54
Speaker
That's what really matters at the end of the day. Resilience, grit, determination, commitment, putting in the hours, all of that. All qualities that make a good founder, a good entrepreneur. Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:09
Speaker
On that note, Ricky, as startup founder, you always got to be scrappy. You got to be creative. You kept saying how unforgiving this industry is. And especially when it comes to money and budgeting, that's tough. But we also know that on average, women tend to be better at extending their runway with the little money that they do get.
00:20:28
Speaker
Can you walk us through what those decisions that you have to make on a daily basis and your process to reaching a conclusion? What does that look like? Because I'm sure there are tons of trade-offs along the way, but also incredibly valuable learnings.
00:20:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. In the beginning, actually, it was a mess. But my decision making was terrible. I feel like founders, we tend to make decisions based off emotions and feelings. And I definitely was doing that in the beginning. I was so excited for the brand and any opportunity that was being presented to me. I'm like, oh, let's do it. Just based off feelings, just whatever, just because it sounded good. And I'm like, oh, this looks good for the brand. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was a mess for me in the beginning.
00:21:12
Speaker
This past year, I have really been doing my due diligence and getting connected with people in my industry or professionals that are familiar in my sales and marketing and even operations.
Transition to a Strategic CEO Role
00:21:25
Speaker
And I've been bringing them on to my team.
00:21:28
Speaker
I feel if there is any time I need to make a decision for anything, any area of my business, I'll definitely go to my team now and consult them before making that decision. And sometimes I still run it by my mom. My mom was definitely like a silent investor to me. So yeah, I'll run it by her as well too.
00:21:45
Speaker
And again, that goes back to having that support system. You need to have people on your team that really look out for you and your business's, your best interest. That's one way that I make really good decisions. And then also, I know you had mentioned it in the beginning, in the introduction, I just graduated from the Goldman Sachs One Million Black Women in Business. And I also received my certificate at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth.
00:22:08
Speaker
Being in programs like that, they also give you the tools, resources, and the knowledge to transition yourself from a founder to a CEO mindset because founders were making decisions off emotions, but CEOs take a step back. There's not any emotion involved and they look at the data and the numbers and accurately make decisions based off that. That is where I'm striving to be.
00:22:34
Speaker
I'm not all the way there yet. I'm still in a little founder mode. It's still scrappy, but I'm gradually going towards that CEO mindset. And so those are the ways that I would approach decision making. And it's definitely starting to help me out a lot. Yeah.
00:22:50
Speaker
And it's definitely something that I think I've heard from a couple of people that it takes time, oftentimes years to actually grow into the CEO role. Because in the beginning, there is an idea, oftentimes an idea is based on a challenge, a pain point, a frustration that someone sees in a specific area and a specific part of their life in a specific industry. And then they're trying to solve for that pain point and
00:23:15
Speaker
They become very emotionally invested, of course. Again, going back to we're all just human at the end of the day. And if you dedicate this much time and energy towards solving for something, towards building something truly from scratch, like a physical product in your case, then obviously that becomes your, for like a better word, it becomes your baby, you know? So how are you expected to not be
00:23:39
Speaker
emotional, how you're expected not to have any feelings about that when you get another no from a VC or an investor, or you have a bad encounter with a supplier or, you know, another dude that just underestimates you and your abilities. Like, totally natural. It's only natural, but I think that you'll learn along the way. And all of these small little experiences, the good and the bad ones, they compound over time.
00:24:08
Speaker
And that will then allow you to gradually step into that numbers driven CEO that is able to remove the personal emotions and just looks at the raw data and makes decisions based on that.
00:24:25
Speaker
But it does take time, but I also want to emphasize there still needs to be some humanity and compassion and vulnerability at the center of all of that. Because likely you're going to continue to grow, Ricky. You're going to hire more and more people over time. And then at some point you're not just leading a business, you're also leading people and you cannot remove component and the emotion out of dealing with people. So it's always going to be a fine balancing.
00:24:53
Speaker
act, but I think you have a really strong foundation because you have realized from the very beginning, hey, vulnerability, authenticity, that's part of my core and I cannot really effectively work with people who don't just acknowledge that, but I also don't appreciate that. Yeah. Agree. Now that was beautiful. Oh, thank you. Oh, again, really want to
00:25:18
Speaker
foster and nurture this idea of compassionate, vulnerable leadership because the days where we were inspired by or looking up to these aloof white men in gray suits, those days are long over and I think people like you and I were never really
00:25:37
Speaker
big fans of that approach to begin with. Now the people that looked up to are the people who are able to talk about challenges they were able to overcome or owning their mistakes or willing to grow and be lifelong learners, people who
00:25:53
Speaker
take us behind the scenes of what it's like to either start or run a business. That really helps establish a more trusted relationship and more loyalty. You're doing everything right. And with each day that passes, you're getting closer and closer and closer. And it's really hard, but also a beautiful journey because you're going to have learnings that will last for several lifetimes.
00:26:18
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Well, Ricky, I have one final question for you because I don't only like to start out with the same question for all of my guests, but I also like to close with the same one. Okay. And for this question, I want you to imagine that you
00:26:34
Speaker
have this power that allows you to enact a single universally binding law that every organization must obey and it must be designed to specifically uplift women's economic status.
VC Accountability and Support for Women
00:26:47
Speaker
Ricky, what law would that be? I feel like the answer is kind of common sense. It would be providing women with access to capital, but it's deeper than that. I would have to say that the law would be, if you're in the VC space,
00:27:03
Speaker
you would have to take some kind of aptitude test in order to be qualified to be a VC or an angel investor because there are a lot of imposters out there. I feel there are. What I mean by that is that they say this is what they're going to do. They've got this amount of dollars set aside for women founders or for founders that are of color. And I just don't feel that we're getting that kind of access. I don't feel that that is at our reach.
00:27:31
Speaker
And I think this test would have to conclude whether or not you mean your shit, whether or not this is what you're going to do. That's how I look at it because I feel again, like it's deeper. It's not just about the capital. It's more than that. It's about the support. Are you going to provide the support? Are you going to run away? Are you just going to give the money and not be able to support that founder after it? And there are investors out there like that. So I know it sounds weird, but I think this test should really decipher on who
00:28:00
Speaker
really, truly wants to help female founders or decipher who isn't the one that are just BS'ing. What I'm hearing is more like we need more accountability in this space. We need more checks and balances because everyone can say and write on their website, hey, we invest in diverse founders. Come give us monies if you're a potential limited partner in Ofron, right?
00:28:25
Speaker
It's so, so easy, but that doesn't address the systemic barriers that are in place. That doesn't address the unconscious bias that a lot of Caucasian and male people have, right? It's got to start with you. You got to become aware of your inherent biases and catch yourself in the moment and then change course.
00:28:46
Speaker
And you gotta leverage your own privilege and extend your privilege to the people who are less privileged. That's how it works. And not just saying, I'm investing in women, I'm investing in black women, I'm investing in people of color. That's not how it works. But yeah, we're still unfortunately far away from an equitable
00:29:07
Speaker
BC system, but nevertheless, I'm so grateful and hopeful that people like you exist. Trailblazers were shaking up male-dominated industries. And I'm so grateful to you for showing up with so much vulnerability and authenticity each day.
00:29:24
Speaker
because again, I think we desperately need it and I wish you nothing but the best on your journey. And I know 2024 is going to be very successful. You're going to scale your business and we're going to make sure that we link to Ego Tequila in the show notes, check it out and maybe message you even after they've had your pride. And yeah, again, thank you so much. No, thank you so much for having me on here. I really appreciate it. Of course.
00:29:56
Speaker
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00:30:21
Speaker
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