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Money is Emotional: How to Understand Your Relationship with Money Through Financial Coaching with the Founder of Bolder Money
90 Plays1 year ago
Update: I recently launched my newsletter, The Sheconomist, and would love for you to subscribe: sheconomist.com - I share so many tools and resources that help young, high-achieving women with radical money and career self-advocacy.
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This week we dive into the world of financial coaching with Amy Schultz, Co-founder of Bolder Money.
Amy's own struggles with debt despite being financially literate, underscore the importance of understanding our emotional relationship with money. Through her own transformative experience with money coaching, Amy recognized a gap in the market. Bolder Money was born from her desire to provide accessible financial coaching that addresses the emotional side of money management.
We also talk about what it's been like to start and operate company with a male Co-founder after realizing that the myth of the solitary, struggling entrepreneur was hindering Amy's progress.
Amy's journey is not just about numbers; it's about breaking free from the emotional constraints that often accompany our personal finances, especially for women.
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Transcript
Reclaiming Economic Power for Women
00:00:00
Speaker
I had to let go of that, this idea that women have to struggle and we have to struggle alone in order to be successful and get to the top. And that was something, once I shifted, it just opened up so much more. I'm Tamina and I'm extending a heartfelt invitation to you as we join forces in reclaiming economic power for women in a world that is often structured against us.
00:00:25
Speaker
We'll dive into the minds of accomplished female leaders, investors and entrepreneurs to equip you with the confidence and knowledge to build wealth for yourself and other women.
Introduction to Boulder Money with Amy Schultz
00:00:35
Speaker
So buckle up, get ready to learn and be inspired to take action. Welcome back, everyone. I am so excited for you all to join us for yet another incredible conversation. I'm so thrilled to be welcoming Amy Schultz to the show this week.
00:00:51
Speaker
Amy is co-founder of Boulder Money, the only financial coaching platform addressing the emotional side of money to help women build wealth. Amy and her team of money coaches have brought the power of money coaching to thousands of women, helping them earn more money, pay off debt, build savings, and ultimately create better lives. I'm so excited to have you on the show, Amy.
Unlearning the Lone Warrior Mentality
00:01:17
Speaker
Welcome. Amazing.
00:01:18
Speaker
Well look, Amy, I like to always start out asking the same question to all of my guests. And as you know, this is a podcast that helps women normalize having conversation about money and wealth creation. And as we grow older and evolve in our personal growth,
00:01:38
Speaker
We all unlearn certain beliefs or perceptions. So I'm curious to learn from you whether there might have been something significant that you have unlearned in your journey towards advocating for gender equity. That is such a good question. It's like, how much time do we have? I'll do one thing. So I think the biggest thing that I had was that going into my journey to entrepreneurship, I was very much this warrior woman. Like I have to do everything alone.
00:02:07
Speaker
And that was something I really held on to for a long time. And so when I met my co-founder, I had to let go of that, this idea that women have to struggle and we have to struggle alone in order to be successful and get to the top. And that was something, once I shifted, it just opened up so much more as a coach, knowing that that's what I do for a living is help people realize that they can only take themselves so far and they need somebody else to help them go that extra mile. It was just very much in alignment with the work that I do.
00:02:37
Speaker
I love that so much, Amy, because it just resonates with me deeply on a personal note, because I feel I'm also someone who oftentimes has trouble delegating or letting go of control because let's be real certain things when you are entrepreneurial or you have a specific taste. It's hard to let someone else make those decisions, right? But at the same time, you can't be
00:03:06
Speaker
everywhere all the time. And it's probably also not sustainable for our mental health, our physical health. So I'm glad that you accepted that, especially I feel even though it's 21st century, we're still living in a society that equates women's value. We continue to sacrifice.
00:03:33
Speaker
So to your point, I feel most women have this deeply internalized belief that we just have to fight all the damn time and we cannot ask
The Myth of the Lone Female Founder
00:03:44
Speaker
for help. And if we ask for help or if we allow ourselves to indulge in self-care, we're bad partners, we're bad mothers, we're bad daughters, bad coworkers, whatever it might be. So I truly love that you shared that.
00:04:01
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. And I think it's something too, as a founder, there's myths of this female founder who's overcome all these hurdles, all these barriers. And yes, they are there. And yes, that's real. But I think romanticizing that also means that a lot of women end up trying to achieve things alone when they could go a lot farther with somebody else by their side.
00:04:24
Speaker
Absolutely. And just for everyone out there, because you and I know this, but our listeners might not know this, you have decided to partner up with a male co-founder. I wanted to make sure that we point that out to the audience as well. Yeah, for sure. And I think that was the beginning of on learning that belief system, because I was like, we all need mentors and
00:04:44
Speaker
My co-founder is somebody who has experience in the startup world and me being from Cleveland and not having a tech background and being a first time founder, having somebody there to show me the way a little bit was life changing. And it's something now that's, no matter who it is, that type of mentorship is something that I think a lot of women need. I love that. Especially, I don't know if I can recall anyone on our show having partnered up with a male cool founder before. So.
00:05:13
Speaker
I'm really glad that I get the opportunity to share that perspective as well, because it's all about diversity of thought, diversity of experience.
Generational Financial Issues and Personal Struggles
00:05:22
Speaker
That's awesome. Amy, let's dive right in because obviously there's a lot of ground we need to cover today. You know, in preparation of this conversation, one of the first things I did was visit the Boulder Money website. I think that's a no brainer. And when I do my research ahead of these, these conversations tend to gravitate towards learning more about the founders and their company's founding story first.
00:05:44
Speaker
So naturally, I immediately navigated to the Our Story page on your website and honestly, Amy, I was so positively surprised by what I found on that page because I honestly don't think I've ever come across a website
00:06:01
Speaker
an entire generation's problem statement as accurately as you have. So I'd love to just read this out to our audience members because you were just hitting the nail on its head. It's unbelievable. So to our audience members, I really want you to pay attention. So listen up. I'm going to read this out to you all now.
00:06:22
Speaker
Before we were a team, we were part of a system in need of change. We grew tired of financial jargon, of feeling anxious about our own money, and of looking for help in an industry that thrives off confusion.
00:06:37
Speaker
Money made us sad and anxious. It's why we were stuck in that shitty job and why that toxic relationship seemed secure. It's why we never thought we could get out of student debt or buy a house like our boomer parents.
00:06:53
Speaker
Instagram made us think everyone had tons of money. Robinhood made us think everyone made millions off TSLA aka Tesla. And Amazon made it easy for us to constantly spend it. Our dad's financial advisor made us feel stupid, young and poor. We felt too ashamed to tell our parents about our bank balance and bored out of our minds anytime we heard about retirement planning.
00:07:19
Speaker
Let's pause there for a second. I mean, I feel that's exactly the sentiment that so many young people and especially women share. So I'm curious to learn from you, Amy, how you have personally conceptualized your own relationship with money over the years.
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, I've had such a journey with money, which I think is why you'll see everything we do at Boulder. We're sharing vulnerably. We're really trying to get into that deeper part of it because otherwise, what's the point? We have to go there. So I started my career as an actuary and I have a degree in finance and I married to an accountant that I always had.
00:07:58
Speaker
such strong financial literacy. I felt that I could do in my sleep, right? I'm a numbers person, but I never had a solid relationship with money. I never understood my emotions around money. And so when I was at the highest earning point in my corporate job, I was also at my highest level of credit card debt. And every year I would be paying off like $20,000 to $30,000 of credit card debt.
00:08:24
Speaker
and saying, okay, I'm never doing this again. And then doing the same thing the next year. And what I experienced was the shame around that was so much, right? Because I'm like, okay, I should know all of this. My friends are in the financial industry and I don't want to admit anything to anybody. So I really struggled alone for a long time until I came across money coaching and found a coach who was like, it's about what you can do with what you know.
00:08:52
Speaker
And that's based on your emotions and your thoughts around money and the experiences that you had growing up. And that just opened the door for me to be able to really get a grasp on my emotional spending and on the ways that I was avoiding taking certain steps because of what I believed about money.
00:09:08
Speaker
And from there, I was like, this is what I'm doing with my life. There's so many women that I know who anytime I share openly about what I've gone through, they're like, hey, me too, I need help. And there were so many of them to the point that I had in 2018 decided this is going to be my full time role. I quit my job and I started coaching women full time.
00:09:32
Speaker
but quickly found that I was only helping as I was increasing the price to work with me, I was only working with women who were in a money mindset readiness where they could drop that amount and feel they were ready to dive in and do the work that they needed to do. So along the way, I realized like my heart is really in those who are left behind by a lot of the financial services that are out there, including coaching.
00:09:56
Speaker
and including the fact that financial literacy isn't working for them. So what we do at Boulder today is very much reflective of my own money story and things that I went through and what worked for me and what we've seen work for so many women since then. Wow. Well, first of all, thank you so much for your vulnerability. I know there's still a lot of people out there, especially women who believe that talking about money and their personal financial struggles is a taboo.
00:10:23
Speaker
So very much appreciate you creating a space where we can destigmatize this topic. I think that's so, so important. And it's something that is honestly holding a lot of women back because growing up, we've been told that talking about money is impolite and yet men are having conversations about money behind closed doors all the damn time.
00:10:45
Speaker
So it definitely is something to your point earlier it is so emotional and often requires a complete mindset shift from having a scarcity mindset towards developing an abundance mindset and.
The Rise of Female Finance Influencers
00:11:01
Speaker
developing a healthy relationship with money. But your story very much resonated with me. I used to have a pretty bad relationship with money as well during my teenager years and then all the way throughout college and into my early 20s where
00:11:18
Speaker
I would spend money on material things that didn't necessarily add a whole lot of value to my life. I did not save. I did not invest my first full-time job out of college. I did not contribute to any retirement savings whatsoever. I was living paycheck to paycheck.
00:11:36
Speaker
And something I keep bringing up on the show and there were guys around me who in college had already opened their brokerage account. Some of them were interning with the likes of like Robinhood over the summer. Others were not just investing in, but actually mining Bitcoin while on our college campus. And so I'd never have any conversations with my
00:12:02
Speaker
female peers about money until much later, until I started to make this actually a topic through my first podcast in 2020. And since, I mean, I'm sure you've observed this as well, because of the pandemic and us spending a lot more time in front of our computers and in front of our phones, right, there has been the search of personal finance influencers specifically catering to a
00:12:29
Speaker
female audience. We had Tori Dunlap on the show before, there's Money with Katie, there is Shang from Safe Mice, so many amazing content creators out there and they were able to grow a following really quickly and that really was a sign to me like hey there is such a big unmet demand out there especially for women, especially for young women who
00:12:54
Speaker
are oftentimes very well educated, oftentimes have really good jobs. You were mentioning it earlier, you kind of grew up in that environment yourself, right? Surrounded by people who were in accounting or were an actuary before as well. But that doesn't necessarily translate to an individual actually having the knowledge and the skills, how to apply those theoretical financial concepts to their own personal finances.
00:13:22
Speaker
So yeah, just wanted to reiterate that and share that this deeply resonated with me as well.
Impact of Financial Education on Systemic Change
00:13:28
Speaker
And I think that just leads to the shame, right? Because again, we're like, yeah, I should know this. This is something that I should be able to figure out. It's being talked about more openly now. That's why we're here. We want to make sure that we validate our audience members' feelings, that they know that they're not alone in this and that, in fact, two people who are now
00:13:50
Speaker
doing this, you're doing this full-time, I'm not doing this full-time just yet, but who spent a significant amount of time doing this and having conversations. Even us, we started out with little knowledge in that space and it took some proactive learning and putting ourselves out there and trying to normalize having these conversations to actually make progress and now create systemic change for thousands of women out there. So.
00:14:16
Speaker
Amy, you've achieved something really impressive already. Your members are currently working towards $20 million worth of gold, $20 million and counting. Obviously, an impressive number for having a real impact on the lives of many people. Is there anything else, Amy, that you believe adds to the success and why your unique approach works for so many people? Yeah, I think
00:14:40
Speaker
One thing that's really important is that we're involving humans at every step along the way. So most of our coaching is done through text message. So it's a really scalable way to help as many people as possible while still giving them that human interaction.
00:14:57
Speaker
Even our members that sign up for the community membership where they don't necessarily have their own one-on-one coach but are doing group coaching, they're still in the group coaching sessions facilitated by one of our coaches and they get a one-on-one onboarding call with a coach. And that's really important to us because a lot of what we're doing is looking at behavioral changes, our emotional relationship to money, similarly to how a company like Noom does for weight loss. And they've seen a lot of success doing it that way.
00:15:26
Speaker
When Noom started out, they started out pure tech. They didn't have humans involved. And they didn't do as well. And they were like, okay, how do we make this more effective? They added back in the humans. And that's really when they blew up and started having the success that they have today. So for us, we've always known that we want to start with humans, make sure that's a part of our process. And even as we scale and further and include more tech along the way, we never want to lose that component.
00:15:53
Speaker
because just having one conversation with a real human who understands what you've been through and can level the playing field and say, this is why something hasn't worked. This is what's going to work going forward. It's huge for people. That's the difference between them feeling overwhelmed and feeling like they can't do it.
00:16:11
Speaker
I'm remembering, no, there is hope for me. There is something that I can do. So I think that really sets us apart. And an example of that that we see is that when we look at other fintechs, their churn rate in the first seven days or nine days or something is 74%. That's a huge number, right? And ours is down like between five and 8%. So it's something where we know adding in that human
00:16:36
Speaker
makes it something that really sticks for them and they're more likely to go on to actually connect all their accounts and go through the process and open up savings accounts and start investing for the first time.
00:16:47
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's also why we've seen it also over the past couple of months, just more and more Fintech companies were seriously struggling, right? And maybe on paper, it seems as if they were able to sign up XY number of users within the first three months, six months a year or whatever that the benchmark number is, but that doesn't necessarily account for weekly, daily, monthly users and monthly recurring revenue and whatnot. So yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
It's very interesting to think that fully through because oftentimes when you hear fintech, especially in recent years, there was a shiny new object.
00:17:23
Speaker
in the world of entrepreneurship. So yeah, but I think you wanted to add something there. Yeah, that's okay. I was gonna say what you said about their recurring revenue, it also comes back to if the metrics aren't about what the user benefits and gets out of using the product, it's harder to retain them and it's harder to keep them engaged. Whereas like our metrics, are users actually getting results? Are they actually working towards those goals?
00:17:47
Speaker
And we have a really significant increase in net worth and our average retention is almost seven months. And in that time we see an average net worth increase of over $5,000. And that's because we're with them every step of the way and our metrics are based off of them succeeding. And I think we don't see that with a lot of other fintechs that are out there.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for adding
Corporate Leadership and Financial Equality
00:18:09
Speaker
that. Super, super valuable. Amy, let's pivot a little bit because I want to ask you a slightly cheeky question. I set up a little bit. What's the controversial belief about money that you hold? Yeah, this is a good one. I think the most controversial belief that I have about money is that there's too much of a gap.
00:18:27
Speaker
between leadership in a company, so corporate leadership, and then the people that are working for them. So we're on a mission to close the wealth gap, right? By that, we mean that we specifically want to help women, most of all, because we see that's where the biggest need is in terms of things that we saw after the pandemic. We also mean anybody who's financially underserved. So that means people of color. That means LGBTQ community. That means anyone who's felt like they've
00:18:54
Speaker
walked into a bank or went to an apps website and felt like, oh, I don't know if I belong here. I don't know if these people are really going to understand me and be able to help.
00:19:02
Speaker
And so one of the things we see is that a lot of companies say that they're helping people in that way, but then they're not paying their employees livable wages, or they're not doing things in a way that actually sets the very people that work for them up for financial success. And so in that way, at Boulder, we're determined as we grow that we become a company that isn't just all of the other big companies out there, that we're actually walking the walk and doing the things that we believe in about money and making us something that
00:19:31
Speaker
meaningful to us. But I think there's a lot of pain in the world right now around the cost of living increase and people saying what I used to be able to afford with my salary a year ago no longer works for me and we're not seeing companies do enough to resolve that problem when they do have the power to do so. I think it's as controversial as it gets.
00:19:52
Speaker
I don't know if it's super controversial to me or like our audience members, but regardless, I really appreciate you pointing that out because I think it's something that especially our generation is facing on a daily basis. There are so many people out there, including personal finance experts who are scolding millennials and Gen Z for buying their lattes or avocado toast, right?
00:20:20
Speaker
When they 20, 30, 40 years ago were able to buy a house for, I don't know, $50,000, right? And we would need to shell out half a million dollars today, not even more, right? And salaries simply haven't kept up with inflation over the past couple of decades. So it's easy for the boomers to say, you should be spending less or you should not be.
00:20:44
Speaker
going out at all until you've paid off your debt and have bought your house. It's really messed up, and I think that's one of the biggest generational clashes that we currently see.
Hopes for Wealth and Work Culture Changes
00:20:56
Speaker
But on the other hand, and this makes me a little bit hopeful, I don't know how you feel about it, Amy, but I think over the next decade or so, women, at least in the United States, are set to inherit trillions of dollars, right?
00:21:10
Speaker
Yeah. So I personally, maybe it's a bit of a naive belief, but I generally hope so much that women will be leveraging that money to create a more equitable world. We women are, be more likely to invest in causes, organizations, companies that we think are having a positive impact on our children, our communities, and our planet as a whole. So.
00:21:35
Speaker
if you look at it from okay let's let's use our dollars to vote and stand up for the causes that we believe in and this can look obviously through like
00:21:45
Speaker
philanthropic efforts through nations, but also buying more sustainable, making more sustainable purchasing decisions or deciding to leverage your own personal financial resources to pay it forward to other women by writing angel checks or becoming a limited partner in a VC fund that specifically focuses on investing in minority founders. And the list goes on and on and on. We're not there yet, but, but generally I want to be hopeful.
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, I love that you said that because I feel this is another, maybe I have lots of controversial thoughts about money that probably aren't to you though, which is amazing, which is why I'm glad we're here. But I feel like if women had controlled all the money from the beginning, so many of the problems that are in our society today just would not have ever happened. We talked about the beginning, my co-founder being a man, that's what drew me to him in the beginning and made me feel this is the person I want to build this with.
00:22:42
Speaker
because he had worked on a startup in India where they were providing education for children. And one of his beliefs that he brought to that company was that he saw there, if you educate the girl child, she lifts everybody with her as she rises. And that's what he saw when he decided, I want to work on bringing financial guidance to everybody who deserves it.
00:23:06
Speaker
we start with women, they will find a way to bring that to everybody else. And it still like gives me chills when I think about it, because it's such a beautiful moment for a man to say and what we need in the world too. But I think it's also, it's so true, right? When we have the resources that we have, when we have the dollars, we figure out a way to make it something that works for everybody else. And that's where financial inclusion has to start with women. Beautifully put. And I'm so glad to hear that you found
00:23:34
Speaker
a co-founder who is a feminist, one who's not to voice that as well. That's awesome because it's something that you probably can take for granted. So I love that for you. Well, Amy, I have one final question for you. I want you to imagine that you have this power that allows you to enact a single universally binding law that every organization must obey. And it must be specifically designed to
00:24:00
Speaker
significantly uplift women's economic status. What law would that be, Amy? What I would want to put in place is the woman who has it hardest getting to work every day, finding time to get her job done, whether it's because she has a ton of kids, whether it's because she's taking care of her parents, whatever it is, I would want it to be a law that she gets to decide what the work culture is like in terms of flexibility, in terms of compensation, in terms of all the things.
00:24:29
Speaker
Because if we were building from that place, instead of looking at the person who's at the top, which is usually a white man who has a spouse at home taking care of his children, again, so many of the problems that we see today would be gone. And there would be more women in leadership, and there would be more women advancing, and not because they have to struggle so much to do so, but because they are able to do it in a world that's actually built for them. Oh, Amy.
00:24:53
Speaker
I love this so, so much. It's, it's so timely that you bring this up because my company actually just enforced a back to office mandate literally last week. And I was having a conversation with three of my female coworkers from our women's ERG earlier today. And we had this discussion about not even discussion, everyone was aligned, but this conversation about it's telling, cause we all know that
00:25:19
Speaker
people back into the office is disproportionately hurting women. It's just sad. And I think that's also why
00:25:28
Speaker
We're seeing in reports the women in the workplace report that is being published on an annual basis as a collaboration between leanand.org and McKinsey is like women, especially also senior women, like director plus level women are leading their organizations left and right. Only one in 10 women actually wants to come back to the office.
00:25:50
Speaker
So I think this is going to create a serious female talent pipeline for a lot of organizations, but that's something that apparently they to see because it's like not that hard to figure out. But I guess the commercial real estate lobby is really strong in this country. And then again, not enough women are sitting at those tables where these decisions are being made. But on the bright side of things, I'm hopeful because as a result of this.
00:26:16
Speaker
I mean, debatable between like correlation causation, right? But there is a growing number of women that are starting companies on their own. We've seen that at the beginning of the pandemic, but this trend is still continuing because I think a lot of people are like, Hey, no, I don't want to go back into the office. I don't want to go back to having to build my life around work.
00:26:41
Speaker
because i was able to do the exact opposite over the past three years or so and i'm not just craving i need that new normal to be the norm for my own mental health for my my family's sake my loved ones or whatever it might be so
00:27:00
Speaker
Definitely loved that you brought this up.
Closing Thoughts and Boulder Money
00:27:02
Speaker
And yeah, just generally want to thank you so much for your time today. This was such a wonderful conversation. I feel like we're very much aligned and so, so thrilled that our audience is going to be able to listen to this conversation soon. We'll obviously make sure to link to Bolder Money in our show notes so people can check it out. And hopefully a few of them will be able to benefit from your platform and your coaching offerings. So thank you, Amy.
00:27:30
Speaker
Awesome, thank you so much for having me. Hey there, not so fast. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you've listened in from today. Reviews are a podcaster's most important currency. It helps me create visibility for the incredible women who join me on this show. And if you've made it this far, I'd like to believe that supporting women is one of your favorite past times.
00:27:58
Speaker
If you already left the review, first of all thank you, but why not share this episode with a friend or post it to your Instagram story? Thank you for helping me on my mission to make women rich by making women rich.