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Sticky Jazz Interview Bill Leeb
32 Plays2 months ago
Bill Leeb is a pioneer in the Industrial Music space. He began in Skinny Puppy, and founded his own band "Front Line Assembly" and other side projects that spawned off, most notably "Delerium" as the great dreamy trance music, that he did mostly from his bedroom.
Bill will release on September 13 2024 his solo albim "Model Kollapse", which covers some very personal ideas, and was meant to be different that Front Line Assembly. This album covers ideas of political meltdowns across the world, the warmongers getting rick, cyborgs, and some very intense sex, all in a great package of music.
We talked a lot about his lyrics on the new album, and why he chose to make this album. Now he is navigating the world of AI and how it influences his music, and plenty of other interesting banter. We barely scratch the surface of this album, but "Model Kollapse" has a great deal to offer
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Transcript
Introduction of Night Crickets and Host
00:00:00
Speaker
I am the late David J. Hello. I am the very present Victor DiLorenzo. Good evening. And I am Darwin, and we're the Night Crickets on Sticky Jazz Podcast. The opinions expressed on the show are solely those of Jeremy Hinks and Sticky Jazz Podcast, and do not necessarily reflect those of anyone else on this planet.
00:00:22
Speaker
And a bodacious welcome to Sticky Jazz. I'm Jeremy Hanks, the man of a million musical opinions, all of which happen to be correct.
Interview with Bill Lieb: New Solo Album
00:00:31
Speaker
This week I have a guy who has been a long time fan of Bill Lieb or Wilhelm Lieb. He is the one of the founding members of Skinny Puppy. He was and the mastermind of the project called Delirium and he's also in frontline assembly and he's been
00:00:56
Speaker
Working he put out his own solo record. It is out in Just a couple of weeks on September 13th The album is called model collapse, but and and it is not a frontline assembly type record I mean somewhat musically, but the content and the the message there is very different I had a great conversation with this guy and I hope that you all enjoy this one. I am kicking this one off with demons and so let's all do the front line assembly version of Sticky Jazz.
00:03:16
Speaker
and and
00:04:47
Speaker
not you disc corner
00:04:56
Speaker
not love bus
00:06:25
Speaker
All right, everybody, welcome to Sticky Jazz. This week, I have Bill Lieb, founding member of Skinny Puppy, ah Delirium, Frontline Assembly, plenty of other projects. And this just what, in two weeks or yeah, about two and a half weeks, his new album, solo record called Model Collapse is gonna be released. And we're gonna be talking a lot about that. Welcome to the show, Bill, thank you. Feel it on, feel the sights.
00:06:55
Speaker
Good to talk to you. We are going to get some states. Ah, it's not good. That's why I'm in the long run. But yeah, it's going to be interesting to hear what you guys are doing here. But this is so cool. Yeah, it's going to be a good day. A good day is going to be a good day in Germany. And it's going to be a good day for us. Yeah, I can't do it. I'm in Hamburg, if I want.
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, this best can on her this is actually a German accent.
00:07:28
Speaker
I'm from Canada. I'm not sure if I'm from Germany, but German is a German language in Germany, so I'm not sure if it's German.
00:07:39
Speaker
yeah might what my bo i heart andvene guon on and venveer deschman and and sp and this i speak to it sing songie on the east down listig hawk de as hanund hamburg but yeah so stay mean it's what's rubby in english break or the delo to human khannis for sta yess vita go yeah okay fair sh le
Bill Lieb's Musical Journey
00:08:01
Speaker
Okay. So um I'm actually, ah let's so let's see, you're up in Vancouver, British Columbia.
00:08:06
Speaker
I am. Which is the west campus of the wax track school of industrial music. That's what we call Vancouver, Chicago being the east campus of the wax track school of industrial music. But you you came out of like ah I mean, just at the perfect storm for your for what you wanted to do to happen. And i I was getting into industrial music very early in the punk clubs and all that when I was just really young as a teenager and I've been a fan of yours from this guinea puppy days on, you know, so
00:08:47
Speaker
And I'm actually honorary Canadian, believe it or not. I went to university up in Montreal. So I also speak French. I speak, I don't speak Canadian French, but I speak French. You're a man of many talents. Yeah. so But so let's see, your your your new project, it's you got a couple of the guys from Frontline Assembly in the band already, right?
New Collaborations and Solo Project Motivation
00:09:11
Speaker
And for this one, for Model Collapse here, but it's going out under the name of Bill Lieb. Let's talk about that what what brought this move on. I mean, I've listened to it and it's definitely and not a Frontline Assembly record, you know but give me a little bit about that.
00:09:28
Speaker
Well, i think I think mostly, you know, like it's it's kind of a big, all consuming story because, you know, like ah for for like 12 years when Reese had left the band, me, Jeremy, R.I.P. and, you know, Jared and Chris Peterson, you know, we we created, and you know, like a a new vibe and and released some pretty great records with IED and then Echogenetics, which I think was one of Frontline's most well-received albums and we were in full stride then and and you know had a lot of firsts, went to Russia, I think three times with that band and played all the big German festivals for the first time. so you know it ah
00:10:17
Speaker
We had a great thing going and then, you know, unfortunately things changed. Jeremy passed away. Jared dropped out as well. I had to go to rehab, you know, and Chris had his own life. And so basically this, ah you know, this was kind of a reconnecting.
00:10:35
Speaker
record with ah with me and Jared because you know I was considering him a good friend. And ironically enough, at the same time, this started to happen. you know He sent me a a couple ideas and I thought, yeah, you know, like, ah but's just sort of Let's just roll
Revival of Cyberactive and Skinny Puppy Farewell
00:10:53
Speaker
with it. but acts Ironically enough, at the same time, the new cyberactive project also started. and For me, and Seven Key, our long 40-year friendship, you know we and with Skinny Puppy doing their farewell tour, it was all kind of
00:11:12
Speaker
a big all in consuming thing. And so like, all of a sudden, I felt like I was writing lyrics for ah cyberactive. The last album came up 31 years ago. So also that retouching and then when we know with Jared, it's all of this sort of came at the same time. and And you know, we're also getting ready to do the Gary Newman ministry tour and everything just seemed to fall into place and was really exciting and I was really motivated on all fronts and so and so you know like and so away we went and you know like you know Reese only did a little bit of programming on the
00:11:54
Speaker
one track and so like yeah this i think it had a bit of a just you know the whole energy and mindset for me was different on all levels with this and so away we went and uh and here we are and you're having a good time with it it's um it's like um like i said it's very distinctly it's great industrial really killer racing music you know but uh Well, you know, we've come from so many different places, you know, over the years, you know, when we first started off, you know, you know, where you have to sort of try to, you know, do something creative and establish yourself to then being on we were on, you know, on Roadrunner Records, which was a pretty big metal
Creative Freedom and Industry Support
00:12:38
Speaker
label. And back in that era, you know, yeah, you were only as good as the last thing you did for them. You know, so there was always pressure to
00:12:46
Speaker
to, you know, to do things that were going to hopefully be successful. But yeah, you know, now it's literally, you know, we're just having fun with it. And and I don't feel any of those things anymore after you know being ah you know around for quite a while. And and also, you know, another reason the solo album appeared was because you know Dave Heckman and me were very close friends and you know he even told me that frontline assembly was the first you know major act metropolis ever signed you know 35 40 years ago and so he's always given me carte blanche to do it has not been that long okay stop throwing these no we're not that old man okay you know it's it's but it's been a while right and so
00:13:31
Speaker
he championed me too he says yeah if you want to do a solo album you know go for it you know and then he's always been very helpful with whatever i needed which is you know and then but two weeks three weeks ago like this thought came through my head was like you know wow you know now that it's literally release time September 13th Dave's no longer with us he passed suddenly about a year and a half ago right it's kind of a shame that he didn't get to see you know my little record come out and you know something he you know was very helpful in me getting there so I think he'd be cheering you on I've listened to but I really liked it I I hope he would like it too you know but but I'm just saying it's kind of sad he's not here you know yeah like to to actually listen to it and and see it come out so you know
00:14:20
Speaker
time keeps moving forward, things change, you know people come and go. so But I'm glad I'm here and it's also here. And I tried to get it released on my birthday, the 21st, but there's another, I guess another that time slot had been taken. So September 13th is close enough. okay So that's that's kind of where I was coming from with this whole record.
Unique Departure in New Album
00:14:44
Speaker
Okay, well, um again, I've listened to it and and I enjoyed it. It was not, okay, it was it was the typical industrial vibe with some some very different imagery, so stuff that stands out very different than your other work. But I could tell you're having fun with it. The two videos, we'll talk about those in a second. but Yeah, I was i mean, when when your publisher said, hey, what do you think of this? I was like, oh my God, it's Bill Lee, man. Yes, you know. yeah i cause and In my opinion, um you're you've always been just great. Everything that you've touched, I've really enjoyed.
00:15:28
Speaker
um you know Delirium, I don't think there's a song by Delirium that I that i don't just love. You know, and I, there's just up into this new record too. We'll talk about some of the lyric stuff in a second, but I actually met you. I shook your hand in Salt Lake at the Ministry Gary Newman show. Okay. You remember that show?
00:15:52
Speaker
Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, yeah, though yeah, I remember, yeah. It was like the fourth show on the tour, yeah and Al played a bunch of new stuff, and then the lights turned on, he's like, no, don't go, come back, I got one more for you, you know. and but you guys You guys killed it that night. You guys were so good. You, well. That was a fun, I mean, you know, both, we did two tours, like, you know, literally back to back, first, ah like, the so-called B markets and the A markets, and,
00:16:21
Speaker
You know, that was pretty, pretty amazing. And me and Reece, the whole tour, we were like, you know, what the hell are we going to do after this for an encore? Because, you know, to us, you know, Gary Newman and Al, that was, you know, that's that's, that's, that's, you know, the top of the line for the kind of, you know, like history and the kind of music we liked. And so every day was like, ah was a highlight, you know, so.
00:16:44
Speaker
If any, if everything ended tomorrow, I said, Teresa, I'll be fine with it. You know, it's like we we got there and this is what we wanted to do. And for now, it's just a bonus on anything and everything we do. You know, so that's for us was a great, you know, a great feeling and position to be in. Well, I got a lot of great photos of you guys that night. Cool. You guys were amazing. I could send some over if you want. I the thing is that this is what it was for me because I've seen Gary and Al.
00:17:11
Speaker
plenty of times, you know, I mean, because they always come through. You guys hadn't come through. I'd never gotten to see you guys in, not through Utah. ah sure We don't tour that much. We're not road dogs. We're not like, we don't want, we're not the we're not the band that's going to play 50 shows in every little casino and watering hole.
00:17:30
Speaker
I don't know, I guess we've never felt motivated like that because you know, we Reese is pretty busy with remixes and and doing other metal you know projects, always in bands and I've got side projects. Yeah, so like, you know, it's it's part of our realm, but you know, we've never wanted just to be road dogs and just be out there all all year. It's just not who we are. And, you know, everybody's different. and But I feel like, you know, you don't want to overdo it either, right?
00:17:57
Speaker
Right. But for me to finally have the opportunity to see you cats live was like, yes. And of course, as Gary, you know, I knew it was going to be a great night, but you guys only got in seven songs. You know, it was. Hey, it was like the best paying gig ever. We got to do seven. We got to play 40 minutes every night. We gave it all. And then and then, you know, and then we just hung out with all the other bands and watched the other two bands and best job in the world.
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, i I remember I had just come over, shaking your hand, gave you a fist bump and said, that was a hell of a great set. And then Gemma walked by and I went and talked to her, talked about her father passing and saying, you know sorry about that. And, you know, i you you know, Gemma, that girl's got a mouth, man. She's, whoa, she's.
00:18:40
Speaker
She's a really she's a she's a great person. yeah She's a great person. But wow, when she she just swears up with every time I've met her, she's had she's just had me laughing like, wow, did you really say that? You know, she's a sweetheart. She's fun. She's right. Yeah, she's great. But yeah, you guys, you set the mood, had everybody dancing. We had a great time there. And I was actually surprised when you played Amadeus.
00:19:05
Speaker
because, um I mean, I knew you had done the the single, that the the your your version of it, but playing it live right there, that just gave me grins. I really thought that was funny. Yeah, we had like, that that song was always fun to play live because you know, like a lot of people that show up that are industrial, and you know, they got this sort of heavy ambiance about it. But, you know, when we played it in Europe as well, it was kind of like as soon as that, you know, everybody then kind of smiled and kind of got into it and went, hey, it's OK to have a good time and laugh a bit. You know, you don't always have to be hardcore and serious. And and that song kind of just always lightened the mood and and and everybody knows the song. And, you know, like.
00:19:52
Speaker
and also Falco is from Austria and I am so I thought like you know the craziest thing is when we released the video of that we unbeknownst we didn't know it came out exactly the same day that was his his death day you know when he died you know like uh so it was kind of the whole thing kind of just made sense and uh we I don't we don't do many covers if any ever but that was truly our first one and uh i really enjoyed that and i'm glad i did it well that song actually
00:20:25
Speaker
like jokingly people have said that that song rock maadays is proof that the austrians have a sense of humor stashed away somewhere yeah Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. You have to, you know, I mean, otherwise I'm not going to get far. that Yeah. So, but I had a wonderful time that night. I, if, if you want some of the pictures, I'll be happy to send them to your publicist because that'd be great. Sure. yeah Um, I, I got into shoot ministry and skinny puppy, uh, ministry and Newman out. That was who would sign for me to be there. But I, I loved your set. Happy to do that. Um,
00:21:02
Speaker
Okay, you I've noticed this in a lot of your videos, in frontline assembly and in the new stuff, um you like the the concept of flying through stuff, right? like Like there's something flying through whatever everybody's involved in, you know, I just noticed that's kind of a running theme in some of your videos.
00:21:25
Speaker
And I don't know. I just think we like, you know, energy and and movement and stuff. And, you know, I mean, we've never we've never been, you know, the band that we're going to set up in a garage with a smoke machine and pretend to play live and then have a have a strobe. Yeah, you know, you know, I like to keep it on the cinematic side. And that means, you know, there's a lot of visuals and there's a lot of movement. And so I guess it just seems to turn out that way.
00:21:52
Speaker
ah Yeah, Front 242 had the visuals of flying in a chopper, shooting up things and blowing things up and that that was on the back screen behind them when they were playing live. ah They were, they were always fun too. um So, ah this was, okay, your song Demons, right? Let's let's just dive into the new work here.
00:22:21
Speaker
Um, I, I loved the whole record, but the videos were intense, man. I'm just going to tell you videos were great, but they were intense. They had a lot of the old school industrial imagery and some of like, believe it or not, the old school mega death, which I really liked too. I like, you know, and, uh, the, the different phases of the face going through that.
00:22:46
Speaker
And again, the visuals of flying through, i like what I would look at it now, what I would have said looked like Ukraine. You know, all the bombed out buildings and all of that that you're flying around through there. Let's see, here's here's the lyric. I'm alive, shy to survive, darkness closes, try not to drown in the surface of sin, a target on my back bruised and battered, I can't fight back, my skin is battered and turning black.
00:23:14
Speaker
Uh, that doesn't actually sound like I'm alive. That sounds like you're, you're, I mean, but let's talk about that those lyrics for a second. Well, I think, I think the whole concept of the song and the video is technically, if you see, it's just a bunch of, uh, politicians, you know, drowning in oil and glutton and warfare.
00:23:36
Speaker
And I think, you know, um and I think kind of, ah you know, world politics and and there's so many, you know, like, I just find, like, nowadays, there's so many, like, wars going on, and it's usually superpowers are supplying smaller countries.
00:23:54
Speaker
with weapons and then they fight and do and you know in their own, destroying their own lives and their own cities and their own you know their own countries. And the big countries keep sending them more and more weapons and stuff. And I guess maybe that's the new way of fighting things. But they' just I just feel like there's so many evil people still in the world and and there's just so much underlying power and corruption and you know the people just want to control all of us and that's why the you know the lyrics is I feel like you know you know like you have a target on your back you know like all your information is constantly shared and
00:24:34
Speaker
and used and you know like by companies and trying to get you to to do things their way so it's just this constant uh constant in battle and so i think that's kind of what we're with that with the video and the songs and so forth i think that's that's kind of what i was going at okay so let's see broken okay let let me let me try and place that in a broken healer sacrifice hidden demons crucified one thousand candles burned through the night um human paradox will kill the light. A fragile frame will not suffice. The devils are out tonight." Those are really intense lyrics, but like okay what the the here's it like a ah battlefield military term, like the 1,000 candles burning through the night. right um there's a ah we We call them so flare grenades.
00:25:27
Speaker
That you you'd shoot up in the air we call it and it's just one it has a thousand candlelight power, yes right? Yeah, and and so that that's what you made me think of was okay. We're firing off a white star grenade Okay, and then we would see everything out there, um you know And I'm like so you were pulling these terms that I'm very familiar with that That would be used in tactical military situations there I don't know if you've ever seen a white star grenade go off, but it is a 1000 candlelight power, you know Yeah. I mean, yeah, like like I said, I've just told you, well, like the song and the imagery and everything pertains to, you know, That was really well done. Well, thank you. Yeah. So you're right. now You're right about the warmongers. Okay. Yeah. Weapons, weapons dealers and world leaders that just fuck shit up. Well, that's what, we that's the world we live in now. Like when it's like the lead off story every night is pretty much that world, you know, so, and, uh,
00:26:25
Speaker
That's where we're at. That's what we've created. So who knows? Well, a lot of I'll get to this in a bit, but a lot of what you've said is was prophetic. Well, I'll talk about in one of your other songs here.
00:26:37
Speaker
um
00:26:40
Speaker
uh let's see your song xo okay loved i i bounced around through your catalog i just i can't pick a favorite song okay i'm one of those guys just like why what day is it first you know because but This is one of those, we fall apart, we drift away, it's over now, it's over now, a ghostly limb, it's over now, we slip away, we slip away. ah We walk in silence, we fade away, we walk in silence, nothing left to say. Unfold our hands and we slip away. That one, and maybe because of the time I was ah reading some some samurai old samurai stories, but that sounded like
00:27:27
Speaker
like a samurai death poem right well i mean i can't say i was like influenced by that particular thing but yeah you know to me it's kind of uh It's just that parallel line, we all walk every day and in life and and everything and people you meet and come and go and, you know, just, ah and long you know loneliness being the human condition, it all it was just a it all just kind of made sense at the time when I was writing the lyric, you know?
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah, it it just, it felt very much like, I don't know, like, I don't know if you know how much, the how the samurais would do things when, but they they would rattle off these poems yeah ah before they would have to kill themselves or that they would have these poems written before they'd go into battle, knowing that they were going to die. And they're always talking about glory and this and that, but every once in a while there was the guy who was like, you know, it's, this kind of really sucks because I'm having to deal with being with being mortal. And, you know, ah that it just it just the time I was listening to that song ah that did it came up when I was reading these books, I was like, man, that's that's like. Like.
00:28:42
Speaker
Like, hey, I'm a poet and I don't even know it. let's do Well, no, no, you are. I mean, the lyrics, you're right. But I guess even maybe when you see all these movies and stuff, I mean, somehow it all I think there was that actually like that 10 episode on Disney about the Samurai, you know, the whole which was actually it was that a lot of us filmed in Vancouver.
00:29:01
Speaker
And that had a lot to do with that. And that was really good. I actually enjoyed that. So, you know, I think as as you go through time, you know, I think you watch things, you know, your mind absorbs things and, and ah you know, somehow later, it all comes out in different forms and facets. Not, you know, you can't time these things, but I think it all it all influences you in some form or another. If you're, you know, if you're an artist person and whether you write, write, paint, you know, make music, whatever, you know. Yeah.
00:29:32
Speaker
Yeah, i just some of these things, they're a lot more fun to listen to um when when I can just, I visualize things, when I hear the lyrics and stuff, and I'm like, okay, this is, and this that that one had the samurai going on in it. okay So really quick, in back in demons,
00:29:58
Speaker
There was this this one part in demons, okay, like the visuals were crazy, just, you know, but like, yeah, the warmongers. But there was this whispering underneath it all that I couldn't figure out what those words were. They sounded really dark. And and it was, you know, when when everything would would calm down, you would just hear the whispering going on. I couldn't understand what those were, but what, could you tell me what those lyrics were? They're just the whispering that was going on underneath. It really wasn't very clear.
00:30:27
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I mean, I, unless you're talking about the middle of the song where I'm just right in the middle, like, like where I'm just basically saying, do you want it darker? You know, it's kind of, is that what you're saying? Okay. Yes. Yeah. Cause you're just whispering. I was like, Oh, this is so intense. This is so, it was really well done. But like, Oh man, I want to catch everything. I like dissecting. Like, do you, you know, do you want it dark? And do you like the pain? You know, do you, you know, just kind of, uh, you know, that, that,
00:30:57
Speaker
taking like a real weird look at that, you know, that whole issue. and And like, yeah, you know, like maybe some people thrive on that, you know, on the darkness and and on the weirdness. And so like, I'm just sort of throwing it out there. I thought it was sort of, sort of fit the song, you know? It did. But now that I know what it means, I'm going to go back and go through the song again and go, okay. He was saying, do you want it dark? All right. Okay. So, uh, terror forms. Mm-hmm.
00:31:27
Speaker
That was a good record. It really was. I've i've only went through it like once or twice. No, no, twice and a couple of songs here and there that stood out. But ah Terraforms, let's see. The Masks make love with an avatar. Shocks of love makes you feel... we try for one Terraforms is just a song, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean you i think you made it sound like it was That was the name of the album or so. Oh, yeah. No, sorry. Sorry. Yeah, yeah the so sorry. My bad. Okay. The song Terraforms. Right. um The video was was crazy. The video was intense. That was ah like like two different subjects there to talk about.
00:32:09
Speaker
im We cried for more, erotic deviance strapped on the floor, sensual stimulant becomes a fact, broken glass, burnt flesh, smoke and mirror, see the glass above and make it last. That was some kind of violent high-tech sex in that one. I was like, that was what I was getting. I was like, like, cyborg sex, but really rough.
00:32:34
Speaker
I think the song is, well, yeah, you know, the the song is basically the lyrics and the song are basically about, okay, you know, if it's all going to end, you know, what are you going to do and what do you want to do? And, and also potentially, are you actually with an, you know, like, uh, an AI robot rather than a human being, you know, and, and how would you interact? You know, are you going to like,
00:33:03
Speaker
Do you want to, you know, the lot, do you want to die having sex with this robot as, as, as the world decays underneath you and goes into the abyss or so like just all these, you know, or you could be with a human, but like just those analogies. Cause I feel like sometimes we're always living with the threat of nuclear war and it's it going to end and you know, like blah, blah, blah. And so like, yeah, you know, how, how would, how would every,
00:33:29
Speaker
how would an individual, how would I react if I knew, okay, you know, this is it. You know, like, I think as you get older too, I find, you know, like you have not a bucket list, but yeah, you know, things you want to do and things you haven't done. And I think this would fall under the term of all of a sudden you have to make a choice.
00:33:48
Speaker
You know, what would it be and and would that be enough for you? So and yeah, and that thrown it together with the whole AI kind of violent interpretation of it's not going to be peaceful the last two hours of your life. And so like the cha chaos and seems, you know, how will you react? And so that's technically what that whole song and video are about, you know, that's intense, man.
00:34:14
Speaker
I mean, the the visuals were crazy too. um yeah tim Tim Hill, you know, like he's me and him so all of a sudden they have struck this board, you know, like he, you know, he gets the music and and, you know, he gets what I'm looking for. That's very rare because, you know, I've done other videos in the past and, you know, they're they're good. And but, you know, it's it's always a struggle. But all of a sudden they were we're on the same page and he's currently ah finishing the third video for muted obsessions which will be released ah like a day before the album drops and again you know we're going down this crazy
00:34:57
Speaker
crazy path so it's uh who knew I didn't know but all suddenly it's all making sense and working out you know sometimes things work out great other times nothing works out so I'm taking this one for all it's worth and that uh oh yeah take is a total win man I mean fabulous record that the the visuals I mean everything's been So like I was kind of like, okay, so the visuals that I could make out, I could see the alternator. I've spent a lot of time under the hood of a car, you know, the alternator, the hoses in the car, and then the overlays of the bloody body images. There was the cyborg. There was the cyborg of you. I was like, oh, that's Bill. You know, I can see your face there.
00:35:39
Speaker
um Was Shannon the other face in there by the way? yeah yes yeah Yes, I knew it man, she's intense too and she was a great voice for that. Yeah, Shannon's great. you know we're we're her and Her band, Leathers and the actors, I mean they're all from Vancouver, super nice people and and she was really, really, I just called her up and she was super nice to to work with and and do what I asked her. So was yeah, it's been it's been perfect in that way. you know Oh yeah, i this album, I hope that this is just very successful because it sounds like you had a lot of fun making it too. Yeah, to me it already is. you know I think at this point, like I said, just getting it done and the you know I enjoyed the process and the people that i was that are involved in
00:36:26
Speaker
And so, yeah, you know, it's ah i'm I'm already happy no matter what happens at this point. And like with the videos and so far, yeah. So it's all I'm ecstatic and happy with everything. And it hasn't even released yet that it's doing well. So, um yeah, Shannon was fabulous on that. um But this is actually in in some ways much darker than anything I would have expected of even frontline assembly, you know, definitely out of delirium, you know, nothing was ever this dark. I think this is the heaviest you've got. But you just explained what these songs were about. So yeah, I mean, I think they, I mean, I think that makes, yeah, they make sense to me and and what I, what what I see and feel when, when, uh, you know, I react to getting up and what I hear and see all day. So.
00:37:12
Speaker
I think we're in a very, we're in a tumultuous crazy time in the whole world, you know, with technology and everything changing and everybody being told what to do because we got to save the planet and all this weird pressure. And it's kind of like, it's just a weird, it's a weird vibe, but you know, it's, so this is my therapy doing this, you know, like this way I get to, I get to do and say what I kind of want without, without being canceled, you know, is he yeah That's that's why I get a kick out of that like I can listen to Christian death and Motorhead and Whatever and just all the crazy noise and I feel great after listening to it like oh, that's so Fun it was so great and heavy and and I don't feel aggressive or anything is just like oh That was just that hit the spot, you know, yeah, and it feels good after listening to it.
00:38:04
Speaker
Mental therapy, you know, it's not like you have to go out and and and break some bottles or Or but do some yeah, it's just like for your mind, you know and and good therapy for your mind and that's always important and healthy, you know Yeah well Therapeutic. Yes. Yes it is. Um now, okay, I this just has to come up mind phaser because it's one of those songs it just it when it When you released it in the video, it was just so great, so cool, and I loved that song. yeah That's always been one of the go-tos, like, okay, just turn on Mind Phaser.
00:38:42
Speaker
um just to to just full disclosure here, okay? and When I was in pilot training, learning to fly, and I was just getting a simulator, I could switch out whatever plane I wanted and create situations. And when I was in the the combat flight simulator, that was my go-to song.
00:39:01
Speaker
Okay. I get, I get it. I mean, it's like, I'm, I'm flying these old, the the only ones I could really learn on the good prototype was these Vietnam era fighters, but there was still just in there flying this thing, listening to mind phasers. Yeah. You know, um, that was just a perfect song for learning how to fly in intense situations. Right. That just, it just made it all feel so good.
00:39:28
Speaker
uh if that makes sense yeah no no i mean like the you know the the the video the imagery the whole the whole thing it's kind of like it's uh you're taking off and uh it's an adventure you know and like ah ah Of course, it always ends like cat cataclysmic and you know things are going to blow up. Oh, I crashed in the simulator a lot. I bet it many times in that zone. There's a countdown if you if you you know if if you don't. you know
00:39:59
Speaker
if you don't make it, it doesn't end well. And yeah, you know, just ah that song kind of just took a kind of ah a journey of its own. and You know, the craziest thing with that song is like, I just sat down and I just know you know put up a bass line and reset. Hey, this is really cool. And and we just it just kind of, you know, some songs write write themselves. And that was one of those songs. And then same with the video you know like it just came along and and it all just kind of fell into place and some days you know you just sings you know nothing comes into place but that was uh it's a I guess every band needs a few classic tracks I think that I guess that's one of ours you know
00:40:41
Speaker
the The opening line, Jesus had days like this. What an opening line, man. to I know, right? It's like that whole ah Robocop thing and everything, you know, like those, I guess, technology and everything. And ah I've had people show up with t-shirts that say, Jesus had days like this. Yeah, it's a great line, right?
00:41:02
Speaker
Oh, it is. But let's see. um a Synthetic conspiracy, masters of the human race. The mind now knows new levels of fear. Implanted brain cells control is gone. We seem to believe truth is regression. That it. Ironically enough, you know, that really lends itself to to now, you know, like ah with with with AI and supercomputers. Absolutely.
00:41:28
Speaker
And like, you know, ah I guess the big fears is like, you know, the more the more complicated AI becomes, and and you know, like, they're going to you know like If they do take over the world one day and they decide to use bad data against us in their own benefit, then all of this will come into play, right? so it's kind That's the thing, yes. I thought it was like about the Terminator. Right.
00:42:00
Speaker
very much about like the Terminator of, and this is before AI was even really a popular topic, right? How many years ago you guys wrote this song? yeah But I was like, that was like, it felt like the Terminator in there. But then as I moved forward, and I was like, I realized this is so much more realistic to now. that That song is more a reality now than it was when you guys wrote it, obviously.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, who knew? But yeah, definitely. I've heard of even the Elon Musk era now where like planting a microchip in somebody's brain and, you know, like ah seeing how, you know, what that does until, you know,
00:42:43
Speaker
how that advances us and, you know, that's the in the new synthetic robot. They don't even call them robots anymore, you know? But um yeah, so well, I guess- Yeah, like there's there's a new hearing aid that they would just implant this chip in your ear and then it goes into the base of your skull right so that you could hear. And I'm like, but what else could they do with that, you know?
00:43:07
Speaker
um i've but I've seen that for a hearing aid because you know I've i lost a lot of hearing on my right ear. um I've seen that and I'm like, what else could they do with that? Really? What could they do with that? Well, I think at this point, like you know david da they think that like This with with AI technology, theyll they'll figure out how to potentially cure cancer you know because of that the the cell. It's one of the most difficult to diagnose and how it changes, but they I think they found the structure of it now. but
00:43:42
Speaker
I think with this type of technology and, you know, as it advances so much further than we can even anticipate, it'll have new answers for us down the road, you know, it'll create new problems, but, you know, it'll also create new answers and hopefully things that we've, uh, struggled to, you know, like not be able to understand. So, you know, it's like technology, you know, we're damn with it, we're down without it, you know, and so.
00:44:09
Speaker
you know whether on ah On what you said, right if cancer, this was said by um ah a medical philosopher guy, but he he said this a while ago, I can't remember which guy it was, but he said, if cancer were to cause pain when it began, we would have cured it by now. you know and That's the absolute truth. you would have felt Cancer goes where you can't feel it.
00:44:37
Speaker
By the time you feel it, it's it's gone a lot of other places, you know. And like like you said, this would maybe find cancer before before you feel it, before it gets to where, you know, that's it's like that's in the art of war by Sin Su, he said that the greatest physician was the one who was unknown, but he could find where the illness was before it even manifested itself and treat it and cure it.
00:45:04
Speaker
And because nobody would notice it at that point, he was unknown, you know, but that's the greatest physician kind of thing. Well, that like that movie Katika, right? You know, we're like, when you're born, they just take a sample of your blood. And technically, they're going to tell you how long you're going to live and and what will kill you for a disease. and And I think that's not even far fetched anymore, you know. So with AI, I think they ah they actually showed a maze, ah the foremost experts, they showed a maze, and they got a supercomputer and asked it how many different ways, you know, it could find its way through to get to the end. And it found, you know, like,
00:45:54
Speaker
quite a few. And then they asked AI, which was twice as fast, and they give you over a million different ways to go through. And so that's how much more powerful powerful AI is. So I think, yeah, I think in the future, maybe when you're born, they'll do a blood test, and they'll be able to tell you, you know, what's what, and you know, and then then they can you can potentially fix something before it's broken. right so and then But then you know we're going to have to go soil and green because you know the world will be overpopulated and then saw how we're going to fix that problem. So there's always, like I said, there's the we're we're damn with it, we're damn without it. So it'll be interesting to see how we all step into the future. so
00:46:37
Speaker
Yeah, um i again, I'm excited about it, but I'm also not excited about what it's doing. you know um But I work in cybersecurity and computer forensics, so AI is very handy for what I do.
00:46:54
Speaker
yeah I mean, I like all the concepts of voice recognition, eye recognition, you know, like I think it all, it these are all major things and major breakthroughs and as we go forward, you know, so it'll be a, who knows? I guess who knows, right? Yeah, yeah. So um i'm I'm, again, I'm excited about certain aspects of where it's all going, but others,
00:47:20
Speaker
Let's see, let's let's dive, let's play with some delirium for a little bit because again, with delirium, you could do no wrong. Every song was just magnificent. And Kanga, she was here just recently, I think with Thrill Kill Cold or Lords of Acid, I can't remember which. I think Thrill Kill, yeah.
00:47:43
Speaker
And she was fantastic. I mean, she, she shocked all of us because I didn't know her work. And then she'd like, you know, boom, like that was amazing. You know, uh, but you worked with, that was quite some time ago that you worked with her, but, uh, the song in the deep,
00:48:05
Speaker
Another fall from grace, that's a typical, that happens in a lot of like, goth Rosetta Stone, that band, I don't know if you know who them, who they are. Another fall from grace, but another day, I barely remember my name, every day feels just the same. Oh, and now you move slow, who knows where the time has gone. It carries my spirit away, it buries my body beneath the waves.
00:48:30
Speaker
Now that was a beautiful video. The but the video there was um was just very simple. I mean there was not a lot going on, but it was very poignant. Yeah, no, that you know, like Kanga wrote the lyrics to that song, and I think it had something to do, something very personal, someone in her family and water and and I don't really want to get, you know, but yeah, so it it was actually something that happened. And so she was expressing that and yeah,
00:49:03
Speaker
the the the guy who shot the video in l LA, I think he did a perfect job like for, you know, this was all not AI, you know, generate, this was all real live shooting and stuff like that. So it's great to see, you know, so the difference. It's much harder, I think, to to do it this way. But I think he kind of nailed the the song and and the and her lyrics were very. I know that was an amazing song, but it was beautiful, not just the lyrics, but the music to it. Yes. You know, I probably should have just bought a bunch of delirium CDs and had you sign them that night. But I was in the pit shooting all that all night. So. OK.
00:49:44
Speaker
Yeah. but if By the way, if you if you plan on touring with this, come through Salt Lake, man. I'm i'm sure he'll get quite a turnout. you know we We would love to see you down here. If if you decide to tour on this, i'm not you know um you say you're not road dogs, and I know you work in the studio a lot, but hey, we'd love to have you come around here, man. Okay. Duly noted. What what was the idea behind just the delirium. i i just can so I called it ethereal electronica. Well, you know, like I think delirium was always kind of like literally a bedroom project that I just started by myself at home because I always liked ambient kind of electronic music, whether it was Brian Nino, whether it was Tangerine Dream, you know, that whole that whole sphere always kind of appealed to me. And I thought, you know, like,
00:50:41
Speaker
Why not, why not just experiment at home and and just i had, you know, like a reel to reel a track tape and some keyboards. And so, you know, like i besides frontline and everything, I just thought like this was a ah good other outlet for me, which which kind of put my mind in a different frame, you know, and and and I had no idea, you know, that that everybody else would like it.
00:51:08
Speaker
Well, I had no idea how successful delirium would become and would actually, you know, like, I mean, silence alone, you know, you know, with millions, I mean, it you know, it went to number one in five countries in the world, you know, like, and we're asked to be on top of the pops in England, and I've got gold records and all kinds of stuff. And, you know, it's it's crazy how one song can define a project and sell more than, you know, your entire back catalog. But hey, you know what, that
00:51:41
Speaker
We're OK with it. and And so like, yeah, but, you know, like I said, the humble beginning of just sitting in my bedroom playing with a few keyboards and, you know, just trying to create some, you know, like ah I'll say, you know, like the whole John Carpenter vibe, you know, like just ambient, moody, trying, you know, without vocals, all that sort of influenced me in that. But and then, you know, once we put started getting vocalists, it catapulted us into a whole different So it's been quite a journey with that as well. and you know I never would have thought or thanked that it would actually go where it did, but I'm thankful it did. And here we are, like ah years later, it it's it's ah definitely left a mark. you know Well, how how did you get that all-star cast of vocalists to work with, with Delirium?
00:52:33
Speaker
Cause you, I mean, you picked, you had like that list, you know, from Sarah McLaughlin to Kerstin from Opus three, Kerstin, Kerstin, whatever, you know, how are we going to pronounce that? All of these great voices in there. How did you get them on board?
00:52:52
Speaker
Well, that's what I would like to know. I mean, you did you just go down a Rolodex or how did that cap? Because, know you know, like, ironically enough, when we, when we, when we did semantic spaces and karma, we were on network records and, you know, and network records actually.
00:53:11
Speaker
were ah one of the biggest independent labels in North America at the time, and and and they just had, you know, Sarah was on the label. and and Yeah, she did with Manufacture, I remember that, yeah. And so was k Christy Thirsk, and you know, Dido was on there, and like, you know, they had a third biggest management company in the world, and you know, even Coldplay were on for North America. So they just had access to a lot of talented individuals. And, you know, Mark and me, you know, we we gelled. And so whenever, when whenever we wrote a song, ah you know, and then we would sit there and think about, you know, who would be
00:53:52
Speaker
who possibly would, you know, be able to put their vocal style would, you know, would work for this. And then we would just approach Mark ah and, uh, usually, you know, it, uh, it kind of worked out. So we, it was just like a perfect marriage being on network at the time, you know? Okay. Do you know Claire over at network?
00:54:14
Speaker
what ah No, okay. she's She's my contact over there. She's great. Wonderful. Yeah. I've had only the best the best experiences with people at network. So um Yeah, Mark and Terry and Rick, you know, like ah back from the move days and you know, like when network first started, you know, the Skinny puppy was the first a band with Sarah and they are literally almost signs, you know, so they They They were groundbreakers. Mm-hmm. But you know John Fryer, obviously. You know Jim, too. Yes, I know John really well, yeah. Yeah, he was on my show. He was one of the first people I had on my show a couple years ago, yeah.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah, John's amazing. John has that Midas touch, man. he just Anything he goes into just ah is going to turn out great. yeah I mean, the MOVE stuff was amazing. His stuff with Wire, Depeche Mode, ah Modern English, Cocktoe Twins. I mean, John Fryer has his name on so many great records. And yeah, so he's you know, but wonderful at what he does. But yeah, you you did some black noise, black needle noise with him, right? I did one song with him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Because I remember seeing that we became a good friends. Yeah. He he moved to L.A. for a while and was hanging around and he even rented a little space in Reese's studio down there. So we all got to know each other. So it was cool.
00:55:42
Speaker
Yeah, John's fantastic. yeah I just saw your name on the black needle noise record cities. that he's put out, which again, he's he's like delirium with a little bit more of a, you know, a sci-fi feel to it. I don't know how to explain it, but anyway, you you know what I'm talking about. Great great stuff. um
00:56:04
Speaker
So let's get back down to mental collapse. Let's get back to, sorry, model collapse here. um Pinned down. Okay. That one was,
00:56:17
Speaker
Okay, now and I'm just gonna say this, and again, this is what what I visualized in it. um Let's see, when you said, pin down to your subversive thoughts, there's more light to oversight, no love lost, ah then went almost ambient for a couple of measures, and there were no beats for anything for a while. So you gave those lines out, and then the life we seek is a mystery, long cloaked shadows in secrecy,
00:56:47
Speaker
Wanting to waiting Want the touching of the skin forbidden situation was that Nuka sit? What was that like a sin Nuka's? What was that line forbidden situations? Something a sin. What was that word?
00:57:02
Speaker
um Don't um don't know right now. I can't actually Think in particular what word that was. But anyways, what's up? What's your question there? So I visualized like The way that that was written, that you've got, you know, a monk of some sort having carnal desires? No, yeah no this no, no, the the so now the song is actually just about ah a toxic relationship between two people and, you know, ah
00:57:38
Speaker
and ah you know like pushing each other and their boundaries and just seeing you know like you know where their minds at and and and if if this is both what they want and to keep it going. and you know like it's yeah it's it's it's kind of It's a song about that and then also about you know, to holding each other down, literally mentally, physically, you know, it's like a psychological warfare and it can really de-abilitate people and yet at the same time, it can push them to new heights of ecstasy. And so yeah, it's a song about all that. It's a kind of a personal song. That's what the song is about. you Because I went through it a couple of times and the visuals I was getting
00:58:26
Speaker
Again, we're like, okay, it's clear to see controlled by emotions right in there, but I don't know. Do you know the opera tie ace? No, no. Okay. It was about a monk who was in Coptic Syria and he convinced this prostitute to repent and go to a, a convent. And then he realized he was in love with her and needed her to he really wanted to actually like wait that was all wrong syllabus he was wrong i need to be with this woman and lover and she goes to this convent and it finds her the rapture and then dies you know and for like some reason i was just like going i feel like i'm in this opera of taius you know
00:59:11
Speaker
yeah you know but yeah you know like you can put yourself you know like master and servant if you please yeah you know you can put yourself up into the song that's just my you know that was over just my my thoughts you know i mean i come from a very you know i was raised in a convent in vienna so i came from a very religious background you know where we stayed all week with nuns and priests and and so you know who knows you know but that's this is my this was my personal mindset about What the song is about, you know, like, I mean, how you can somebody can pin you down mentally.
00:59:46
Speaker
without having to use, you know, like a rope and just kind of put you in a place where, and then thinking, do you really want to be there? Maybe you do, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot to think about, you know, and, uh, I just, uh, I really, you know, yeah, it was great. That was, oh, that's what that's but I've never written lyrics like that for a frontline song. You know what I mean? Yeah, this was totally, this was totally not for frontline assembly. This was a very separate.
01:00:16
Speaker
yeah so that he vibe Yeah. I was like, this is not a frontline assembly. Absolutely not. you know Great song, but different direction. you know ah Let's see the song, simulation.
01:00:31
Speaker
um you just actually gave away a little bit of where this was going uh let's see faces of destruction sacred places i don't want to see lost memories of forgotten sorrows bloodstained pictures here of you and me And all I can see, you and I will never die. um Charming words cut you like steel. I worship you on my hands and knees, ah dislonging gays, cruelty of you and me. um You have a lot of religious imagery in your in your lyrics. ah Hey, you know what? When you're raised in the convent,
01:01:10
Speaker
like for the entire teen years and all you when you wake up and there's a nun in front of you and they march you across the street to the school and then you have choir boy and priests and yeah you know it it ah your entire youth that yeah it definitely uh it's part of who you are you know whether you know you believe or not it's kind of not even relevant but it does you know put you in a place you know what uh You know, what's right, what's wrong, I mean, or like, you know, or you become very defined of all of that structure and and you just delve into like deep darkness with crazy things and thoughts and and that's, you know, and then again, you know, like a part of relationships and people that you surround yourself with and what they like and
01:01:58
Speaker
so this is all like ah yeah maybe I'm becoming very defiant of of like all that and it all like I said I would never I don't know if I ever would have dared to do this like before you know but I feel like I'm like now and a place where I don't know it's just I'm okay with it and this is this is part of my mindset and so like I don't want to sing I don't want to sing or write about something that's not real or that's kind of like non cynical. So to me, again, you know, the personal lyrics and I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, but it's definitely the shits on my mind, you know, so needs i've dealt things I've dealt with, you know, so so again, you know, yeah everybody has their own things, you know, like somebody else might relate to it as well, you know, like in their own in their own terms. I think everybody I think when people listen to music, you know, I think everybody
01:02:53
Speaker
you know You take out things that are that that you know like maybe you can relate to and apply to you. you know It doesn't have to be every verse and stuff, but just the overall feeling. And sometimes that's a good thing. You know like you can sort of relate to something. you know I can totally relate to you going, man, this religion thing got in here and screwed up my ability to have normal relations of the people. you know That's what I'm getting from here. It was nihilistic, but I'm like, man, this is this guy's nailed it, man. There were some interesting approaches to how you want to talk about this subject. Yeah. and you know like Nowadays, you know I think it's wearing a much more like
01:03:33
Speaker
open society and you know you're not uh yeah you know it's like uh and who says what's right and what's wrong and and what's good and what's bad and what can't you do and what shouldn't you do i mean there's just so much of that you know you you just kind of have to like throw it out you know you just got to go into your own world and and you know make it work for you however it is that you want. I don't know if there's any, you know, rights and wrongs in that. It just depends on, um I guess, the way you look at it and and your situation. But anyways, that's, ah I guess that's, you know, maybe part of this was also, you know, like, there was this thing, like, should it be a solo album? Should it be a front line? But I thought, nah, you know what, some of the songs are kind of personal. And, you know, like, front line doesn't really
01:04:18
Speaker
This was not front line assembly subject matter. No. Yeah. So like that's why I thought, yeah, this makes sense, you know. and And I mean, I think it's cool that, you know, you actually read the lyrics and have your own mindset and thoughts about it because, you know, not a lot of people just listen to the music. If the beat's good and if it's energetic, they don't give a shit what you say, you know. So.
01:04:39
Speaker
Oh, no, no, no. i can't I can't go without trying to figure out what he's what's the point of this song, you know? that's so um you you You could tell I've done a lot with your music. um So, i well, all the best with the new record release. Thank you. And thank you for the conversation, by the way. we're We're coming up on time here, but I really enjoyed it. And this is great talking to somebody who I've been a fan of since 88, right?
01:05:09
Speaker
I appreciate that you delved into the lyrics because, like, nobody's really kind of technically done that like that yet. So I think that's- Well, because the album hasn't been released yet. I'm sure they will. I'm sure the- I think you have a good mindset for it, you know, like that you're somehow interpreting it in a way, you know, that I think this is really cool. And I like that concept, you know. Oh, well, I thank you. i i I can't do it any other way. I have to know what's what's the point of this. So I appreciate that that you And you pick the most personal kind of lyric stocks, which I don't think is funny. Cause you know, some of the other ones are about, you know, like, uh, you know, but, uh, the world's on fire, you know, like it's kind of, Oh, I know. Yeah. There was some nihilistic pieces in there. Totally. yeah yeah And, and you know, like, yeah. And you know, the constant climate change and save the world for tomorrow. And I'm like saving it for who, who am I saving it for? Like,
01:06:06
Speaker
You know, like it's kind of like there's all these conflicts, you know, like and and so we're and we're barraged every day with it now. Like, you know, it's just like it's it's kind of it's stressful almost, you know. Yeah, that's the crazy thing about A.I. You know, it's like all these hackers, you know, they hacked into Las Vegas and shut down hotels and wanted a ransom. Then they did that to power grid stations. And, you know, I'm thinking like, you know, when they do it to the nuclear facilities, you know, then what are you going to pay ransom? Are you going to say no, like, ah like, seems like they can get around every system so far, you say you're in cybersecurity, you know, like, well, hopefully, that's all just going to be not AI data, but that'll actually have to be a physical thing where you can't just, you know, hack in and and ah program these things to go up, right? All right, my friend, I was not talking to you. but Real quick. What song do you want me to play this out with?
01:07:04
Speaker
What's on the way to play, uh, play infernum. Okay. I was going to open with demons if that's all right with you. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, okay. And then play us out with infernum. Okay. So everybody, this is Bill Lieb. Thank you, Bill, for your time. It was amazing. Great conversation. All right. All right. Everybody else take care. Be good to each other and let music do awesome in your lives.
01:07:31
Speaker
And thank you so much, Bill Lieb, for the conversation. And also special thanks to Barry Andrews of Shriekback for letting us use the theme and title of Sticky Jazz. And everybody, September 13th, go look for Bill Lieb's solo album. And enjoy, this is Inferno.
01:09:39
Speaker
Won't stop to play
01:10:49
Speaker
Together we are...