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127 Julie Haworth | Romance Author
450 Plays2 years ago
Feel-good romance author, Julie Haworth is on the podcast this week telling us all about the amazing launch of her debut novel 'Always By Your Side' and winning the RNA's Katie Fforde Debut Novel of the Year 2023 Award! Since recording this episode Julie has also been nominated as one of the 8 contenders for the RNA's Joan Hessayon for New Writers 2023.
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The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes
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Transcript
Introduction and Big Secret to Getting Published
00:00:00
Speaker
So our podcast is called Right and Wrong.
00:00:02
Speaker
Are these your notes?
00:00:03
Speaker
Are these your notes about what we're going to say?
00:00:06
Speaker
Anything is a short answer.
00:00:08
Speaker
So how many novels did you not finish?
00:00:11
Speaker
Oh my God, so many.
00:00:13
Speaker
It was perfect.
00:00:14
Speaker
What's she talking about?
00:00:15
Speaker
This is not a good question.
00:00:17
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:19
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:20
Speaker
This is it, guys.
00:00:21
Speaker
The big secret to getting published is you have to write a good book.
00:00:25
Speaker
You had it here first.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello
Meet Julie Howarth: Award-Winning Debut Author
00:00:30
Speaker
and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:00:32
Speaker
Today I'm thrilled to be joined by the winner of the RNA's Katie Ford Debut Romantic Novel Award, Jamie from the future here, just to let you know that since recording this, Julie has also been nominated as one of the eight contenders for the RNA's Joan Hessian Award for New Writers.
00:00:50
Speaker
So that's awesome.
00:00:51
Speaker
And now back to the episode.
00:00:52
Speaker
Julie Howarth.
00:00:54
Speaker
Hi.
00:00:56
Speaker
Welcome to the show.
00:00:57
Speaker
Hello.
00:00:58
Speaker
First of all, huge congratulations.
00:01:00
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:01
Speaker
For the release of your debut novel, Always By Your Side, and then having it win the Romantic Novelist Association's award.
00:01:10
Speaker
What an amazing reception to your debut novel.
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think even hearing you introduce me and say the winner of, I'm still kind of like, did that actually happen?
00:01:20
Speaker
But yeah, it did.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's, oh my gosh, I almost don't have the words.
00:01:25
Speaker
It was just, it was such a shock and just such a huge surprise.
00:01:29
Speaker
And I feel like, I mean, that was in March and I feel like I still haven't fully processed that it's actually happened.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:36
Speaker
You just have to pinch yourself every now and again.
00:01:38
Speaker
Yeah, it just was, it was such a lovely evening.
00:01:41
Speaker
It was just, yeah, it was definitely one of those moments that I feel like will be an absolute career highlight and that I'll just remember forever.
00:01:49
Speaker
Well, hopefully.
00:01:49
Speaker
Hopefully.
Transition from Teaching to Writing
00:01:51
Speaker
And speaking of careers, you have been an English teacher before you moved into copywriting.
00:01:58
Speaker
So you've always been in proximity to writing and words and that sort of thing.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
But prior to Always By Your Side, had you written many of your own stories before?
00:02:12
Speaker
So this is probably, yeah, probably quite a shock when I say this, but no.
00:02:18
Speaker
So this was my first attempt.
00:02:19
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:02:20
Speaker
Which is, yeah, I know.
00:02:22
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, that's always a bit of a shock, I suppose.
00:02:26
Speaker
I think it was just something that I thought was just so unachievable that I almost never tried, if that makes sense.
00:02:32
Speaker
So it's something that I'd thought about doing a lot.
00:02:35
Speaker
but never actually, you know, put pens, paper or cranked up the laptop and just had never given it a go because I just didn't think, I just didn't think it was something that someone like me would ever be able to do, I suppose.
00:02:48
Speaker
So it kind of felt quite off the table as an option.
00:02:52
Speaker
So what, what was the thing that made you sort of go, you know what, I'm going to write a novel.
00:02:56
Speaker
Let's
Realizations and Inspirations During COVID
00:02:57
Speaker
just do this.
00:02:58
Speaker
So there were two things.
00:03:00
Speaker
So the first was that I met another author, Lizzie Chantry, who is Essex based as well.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:08
Speaker
And she's in the RNA as well.
00:03:09
Speaker
And she, I met her at a networking event, I think probably January 2020.
00:03:14
Speaker
And she was organizing a kind of author showcase in Essex.
00:03:20
Speaker
that I went to in February and there were loads of authors from all over the place that had stalls selling their books.
00:03:25
Speaker
You could chat to them about writing.
00:03:28
Speaker
And I went to that and I just actually kind of my impression when I came away from that was that these are all just regular people.
00:03:35
Speaker
Some of them have got other jobs, are doing it on the side.
00:03:38
Speaker
Some of them are full time authors.
00:03:40
Speaker
But they're all writing.
00:03:42
Speaker
And I think that was the first moment that I thought, okay, so I could do, maybe it is something I could do.
00:03:48
Speaker
And that was the first kind of moment.
00:03:51
Speaker
And then obviously COVID hit in March 2020.
00:03:53
Speaker
I actually caught COVID for five days before the first lockdown.
00:03:59
Speaker
So it was kind of, you know, I was plumbed straight into it really.
00:04:02
Speaker
And I was quite poorly for probably about six weeks.
00:04:06
Speaker
And I just remember thinking, and it sounds quite cheesy now I sort of think back, but I just remember thinking, do you know what?
00:04:12
Speaker
When I'm better, I'm writing that novel.
00:04:14
Speaker
I'm just going to get started.
00:04:15
Speaker
And I just exactly did that.
00:04:17
Speaker
I literally
Julie's Writing Style and Process
00:04:18
Speaker
opened the laptop and obviously work had gone quite quiet with the lockdown and pandemic.
00:04:23
Speaker
And so it was kind of like the perfect time to start.
00:04:27
Speaker
And once I started, it just kind of flowed.
00:04:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's amazing.
00:04:32
Speaker
I think that there's definitely, I can definitely relate to that.
00:04:35
Speaker
The idea of, it does seem like from the outside looking in, it does seem like authors are these sort of like mastermind geniuses a lot of the time.
00:04:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:45
Speaker
meeting a lot of them in person, you kind of, you suddenly think, oh, you're just, you're just, you know, we're just the same really.
00:04:53
Speaker
You just did it.
00:04:54
Speaker
You just did the thing and wrote it.
00:04:56
Speaker
And I'm not saying that, you know, I, you know, there are obviously many authors are extremely talented and I could never write what they write, but there's something really about meeting an author in person.
00:05:06
Speaker
And this is the same for agents and editors as well, I think.
00:05:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:10
Speaker
just humanizing them really kind of gives you that confidence to be like, oh no, I think maybe I could do this because they're only human too.
00:05:17
Speaker
Definitely.
00:05:18
Speaker
And I just vividly remember that as being a real light bulb moment of kind of coming away from that.
00:05:24
Speaker
And just after, you know, having spoken to lots of different authors, just having that sense that, okay, maybe I could do this.
00:05:31
Speaker
And I've never ever felt that before.
00:05:33
Speaker
So yeah,
00:05:34
Speaker
I feel like going to that event was like a real, and I think Liz has been on your podcast actually.
00:05:39
Speaker
She has, yeah.
00:05:40
Speaker
And she's amazing.
00:05:41
Speaker
And I think meeting her and going to that event was just, yeah, kind of like a bit of a turning point or something just kind of flipped in my head that I was like, oh, okay, maybe I could do this.
00:05:50
Speaker
And I can't remember ever thinking that before.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's great.
00:05:54
Speaker
And the, the RNA as, as a group as well as so such a like, um, community encouraging and supportive community, like they're some of the best people to just meet and then they'll inspire you to kind of go on and do more things.
00:06:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
Learning from Mistakes and Future Potential
00:06:08
Speaker
So this was your first book, but coming into this from a sort of copywriting background, was there planning involved or was it just full pantsing?
00:06:17
Speaker
Oh gosh, I would say that I'm not much of a planner.
00:06:22
Speaker
So just to put that out there.
00:06:25
Speaker
So I think I'd had, because it's something that I'd been thinking about for a while, I guess I had like the bones of the story kind of worked out, but I wasn't quite sure, you know, how I'd get there and how that would look and how it would work.
00:06:38
Speaker
And I think, you know, I would say this about, you know, my second book that I've been writing as well, that
00:06:45
Speaker
I tend to, I kind of figure it out as I write, if that makes sense.
00:06:50
Speaker
So it's almost like when I'm writing, something will spark and I'll be like, oh, actually, that would be a great idea.
00:06:55
Speaker
Well, that would be the right direction for this to go.
00:06:58
Speaker
So I, yeah, I find it quite hard to, you know, I know some people can sit down before they start writing.
00:07:03
Speaker
They've got everything mapped out.
00:07:04
Speaker
They've got a really detailed synopsis.
00:07:07
Speaker
I'm definitely, that's not my style.
00:07:09
Speaker
And I, and I find that really difficult and I tend to be just, um,
00:07:13
Speaker
yeah, kind of go with the flow and see where it takes me.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:17
Speaker
One of my friends is, um, what, one of my friends is an extreme planner and I have another friend who's not a planner at all.
00:07:24
Speaker
And she was saying part of the reason that she doesn't plan is not necessarily that she can't do it or, or like, um, or like doesn't understand the benefits of it.
00:07:33
Speaker
It's more that when she does it, she, she, she loses some of the enjoyment of writing, um, because she knows what's going to happen.
00:07:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's also, it kind of maybe surprises me a little bit to go, oh, this is what's going to happen or this is where I'm going to go with it.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's it.
00:07:49
Speaker
So yeah, I just kind of feel like that works for me.
00:07:51
Speaker
So I haven't really tried to change.
00:07:54
Speaker
But then I do also think maybe it might be a good idea to try and sort of sit down and plot something out and see how that would go because I've never really tried that.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
I think quite a lot of writers once they've been published do not necessarily become full like regimented planners, but I think they do tend to move more into a planning direction on the spectrum of planning to pantsing.
00:08:21
Speaker
They'll lean towards planning more because I think after obviously with subsequent books after book one, you're usually on deadlines.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:08:30
Speaker
And I think it's that thing of actually, I'm kind of learning all the time.
00:08:34
Speaker
I'm very aware that, you know, I've only written one novel.
00:08:37
Speaker
It's the first one I've written.
00:08:39
Speaker
I'm kind of learning as I go along and 100% that my way of doing it might not be the best way of doing it for me and there might be better ways.
00:08:49
Speaker
So I'm really open to exactly that.
00:08:52
Speaker
Or maybe I should try and plot this one a bit more.
00:08:55
Speaker
And one of the things that I have already learned from my mistakes is that I definitely, I think if I'd kept really detailed character notes at the beginning, that would be really helpful.
Publishing Journey with RNA and Simon & Schuster
00:09:07
Speaker
Because I think you just, I kind of thought I would remember all this from all details.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:11
Speaker
And then actually, I'm in book two going, actually, can I remember the colour of so-and-so's hair?
00:09:15
Speaker
And I'm like, no, I can't.
00:09:17
Speaker
Right.
00:09:17
Speaker
Why haven't I written this down anyway?
00:09:19
Speaker
So I definitely think that that was a massive learning curve that I've started to do that now and keep sort of more detailed character dates because you think you remember and you just don't.
00:09:30
Speaker
So that, yeah, I did.
00:09:32
Speaker
I sort of looked back on that and said, yeah, you should have been doing this from the start.
00:09:37
Speaker
I'm very aware that there's probably much better ways of doing things than what I'm currently doing.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:42
Speaker
But I think like, you know, like any craft, the more you practice, the more you do, the better you get.
00:09:47
Speaker
And I think, yes, I hope so.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:49
Speaker
I definitely hope that's true.
00:09:52
Speaker
I think with, you can see with like some, like some of my favorite authors, I'll, you can, I can flick through their first book, someone like Brandon Sanson, who's written a million books and his, you can see in his first book, which is still great, but you can see how far he's come and how much more honed his style and his craft is in his like newer stuff.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I definitely hope that's the case for me.
00:10:15
Speaker
I feel like I kind of improve as I kind of go on.
00:10:18
Speaker
But yeah, it's a massive learning curve.
00:10:20
Speaker
And I think even with that first book, the whole editing process of you just, you don't really know how it works.
00:10:26
Speaker
You don't know what's involved.
00:10:28
Speaker
You don't know how many sort of layers of edits are involved and things like that.
00:10:31
Speaker
And I remember, I think Sarah Jade Virtue at SNS said to me in one of our first meetings that kind of, you know, 90% of the work is still to come after the first draft.
00:10:43
Speaker
And I remember thinking,
00:10:44
Speaker
oh that can't be true this was so much work and then actually after going through all of that process thinking yeah that probably was actually quite accurate so I feel that it is a really big learning curve on your first on your debut and you're just learning all the time and so hopefully that makes it easier for your next book in that you're you're kind of aware of what the process looks like and how it's going to work and sort of time scales and things like that
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah.
The Role and Benefits of Having an Agent
00:11:11
Speaker
So you are with Laura McDougall at United Agents.
00:11:16
Speaker
Did that signing, was that before or after you signed with Simon & Schuster?
00:11:22
Speaker
So that was really recent.
00:11:23
Speaker
So I think I only signed with Laura about three or four weeks ago.
00:11:27
Speaker
So it was super recent.
00:11:30
Speaker
So yeah, so I guess I kind of went about things a bit topsy-turvy in that I obviously had the deal, had my first book out before I got an agent, which I know is probably, I don't know, I don't think that's the standard.
00:11:42
Speaker
So I feel like I sort of did things in the opposite way, if that makes sense.
00:11:47
Speaker
I mean, it sounds like a great way to do it.
00:11:48
Speaker
I imagine, did it make getting an agent somewhat simpler?
00:11:53
Speaker
I don't know because I guess I don't really know what it would have been like if I didn't already have the book out.
00:11:59
Speaker
So it's hard to say.
00:12:03
Speaker
And basically the deal with Simon Schuster kind of came about as through the RNA.
00:12:08
Speaker
So it was basically a one day submission that they had just to Simon Schuster through the Books in the City imprint just for RNA members.
00:12:19
Speaker
And I'd only just joined the RNA.
00:12:21
Speaker
So I think I had joined in January 21.
00:12:25
Speaker
And that opportunity came up in February 21.
00:12:27
Speaker
I think it was a Valentine's Day thing.
00:12:29
Speaker
So it was just like a one day submission.
00:12:32
Speaker
And I just kind of bit the bullet and went, okay, I'll just send it and send my first three chapters, my synopsis.
00:12:39
Speaker
And yeah, and then just see what happens.
00:12:41
Speaker
And I don't think I expected anything to happen.
00:12:43
Speaker
So it didn't actually feel that nerve wracking.
00:12:45
Speaker
I just kind of hit send and then I just forgot about it.
00:12:50
Speaker
That's probably the least nerve-wracking through the whole experience is just having no expectations is a sort of surprisingly healthy way to deal with these kinds of things.
00:13:00
Speaker
Yeah, I guess.
00:13:01
Speaker
I was really lucky.
00:13:03
Speaker
It was literally my first submission.
00:13:06
Speaker
So I obviously didn't expect to hear anything back at all.
00:13:09
Speaker
And then probably, I don't know, maybe a couple of months later, I got the email to ask my full manuscript.
00:13:15
Speaker
And then I was like, oh,
00:13:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:19
Speaker
Now the stakes are a bit higher.
00:13:20
Speaker
Now this feels a little bit more stressful.
00:13:23
Speaker
So yeah, I couldn't believe I got that email, but then once I sent it back, then obviously there's a, there's a weight where you're kind of, you know, you don't know what's going to happen.
00:13:31
Speaker
And that did feel, I was checking my email a lot and that did feel like suddenly it's always that thing of, you know, the closer you get to something, the more is at stake, I suppose.
00:13:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:43
Speaker
One, one tip I heard with when you're in this sort of submission, um, period of your, of your writing is to have a separate email that all of your submissions go to so that you're not constantly just checking your own email.
00:13:55
Speaker
Oh, I didn't have that tip.
00:13:58
Speaker
Every time my email pinged, I was like, maybe this is the one.
00:14:01
Speaker
So, um, yeah, so it feels like a lot.
00:14:04
Speaker
I think even, you know, I know that obviously wait times to hear about
00:14:07
Speaker
publishers and agents things are quite lengthy at times um but yeah it does feel long so it's hard to know if you know if it just feels long or if it actually is a long period of time yeah yeah yeah so so as someone who um sort of did did all the stuff and and and you signed through this rna partnership with sns um by yourself
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:30
Speaker
Does it feel, kind of what's different about the kind of way you're looking at it, the way you're working, the way you're writing now that you have an agent?
00:14:38
Speaker
Oh, that's a good question.
00:14:39
Speaker
I feel like it's probably quite early days because I haven't been working with Laura for that long.
00:14:46
Speaker
But I guess it's just that the sense that, I don't know, that you've kind of, and S&S are absolutely amazing.
00:14:51
Speaker
So I feel incredibly lucky to work with them because I think as a new author, I
00:14:55
Speaker
It can feel a bit daunting, it can feel a bit scary and they're just all so lovely that they made it just seem an absolute pleasure and they didn't make it feel scary at all.
00:15:03
Speaker
So I feel like that was very lucky.
00:15:05
Speaker
But I also feel like obviously having an agent as well.
00:15:08
Speaker
I guess you've just got someone else that's like a sounding board that is going to become your kind of go-to person for...
00:15:16
Speaker
You know, if you want to talk about things or you've got questions and that kind of thing.
00:15:19
Speaker
So I feel like that's going to be, you know, really useful and a real support in the future, which I guess it's almost like you don't know what you missed because you didn't have it in the beginning, if that makes sense.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
00:15:31
Speaker
I guess it's also someone who, cause you know, you're the writer, you didn't know too much about how this works.
00:15:37
Speaker
I assume first, first time going through it.
00:15:39
Speaker
I mean, I would say I kept saying to everyone, I'm just clueless.
00:15:42
Speaker
I don't know what's going to happen.
00:15:44
Speaker
I felt like I'm kind of bumbling through the process, like not really knowing what was going to happen.
00:15:49
Speaker
Um, so I, I feel like I was probably quite aware that I didn't really know what I was doing and I didn't really know what was going to happen.
00:15:55
Speaker
Um, so I just kind of, you know, try to just go with the flow and not, and not kind of worry and overthink, but that's not always easy, but, um, that's what I try to do.
00:16:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:05
Speaker
Well, I mean, that's a good approach.
00:16:06
Speaker
Just keep it simple.
00:16:08
Speaker
Don't overthink everything.
00:16:09
Speaker
But hopefully now with your future publishing endeavors, you have Laura, who is going to be someone who knows how publishing works.
00:16:16
Speaker
She knows all the ins and outs of it to kind of pick you up and shine a light to guide you.
00:16:20
Speaker
Exactly.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:22
Speaker
And I think I, you know, I definitely think that.
00:16:24
Speaker
And I also think that, you know, I do, my ambition is that obviously I would love to be a career author.
00:16:28
Speaker
That's kind of the goal.
00:16:30
Speaker
And I think to do that, it makes sense to be working with an agent and to kind of have that, that kind of support and that network and that, and that person that you're working with as well.
00:16:40
Speaker
So I think, yeah, that was definitely on my list of
00:16:42
Speaker
you know, I've, I've, the book's out, I've won the award and kind of taking, taking things seriously.
00:16:51
Speaker
So I feel like that was, it was a good time to start looking.
00:16:54
Speaker
Was it, did you go on like active submissions?
00:16:57
Speaker
Like it seems strange just because of the order you did it in.
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah,
Exclusive Reveal of Upcoming Book
00:17:01
Speaker
it is a strange order.
00:17:02
Speaker
So I did.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:03
Speaker
So I guess I started and I guess even that's quite tricky because it's almost like you think, well, I'm going to try and find an agent.
00:17:10
Speaker
And then you're kind of like, right now, where do I start?
00:17:12
Speaker
Like, how do I know who to get in touch with?
00:17:14
Speaker
And so I spoke to other authors that I know.
00:17:17
Speaker
So that was really helpful.
00:17:20
Speaker
And I just started looking at different agents, kind of websites and
00:17:25
Speaker
And just trying to sort of like make a short list of, because I feel like it's really important that I found an agent that, you know, I got on really well with and it just was a good fit.
00:17:35
Speaker
So I did try and do a lot of research and spend a lot of time sort of thinking about who I would like to work with.
00:17:40
Speaker
But that does feel quite a tricky process because it's almost like, where do you start?
00:17:44
Speaker
How do you know how to get in touch with?
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:48
Speaker
And it's, it's just funny going that way around.
00:17:50
Speaker
You think like the debut novel is already out.
00:17:52
Speaker
You, you know, you, you, you've won this prestigious RNA award as well as like, you know, there's potential followup for more stuff and you are, you are doing more with Simon & Schuster.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, so basically, so a little bit of an exclusive, hopefully, because I don't think it's really out there at the moment.
00:18:09
Speaker
But book two is happening.
00:18:11
Speaker
It's going to be out next summer.
00:18:12
Speaker
So summer 24, which is really exciting.
00:18:15
Speaker
So I'm working through some edits with Simon Schuster for that at the moment, which is really exciting.
00:18:21
Speaker
And there will be, so the paperback of Always By Your Side is out on the 31st of August this year.
00:18:29
Speaker
And there is going to be like a little teaser at the end that's an extract from book two.
00:18:34
Speaker
So that's really exciting.
00:18:35
Speaker
So anyone that reads the paperback will get that little kind of glimpse of book two at the back as well, which is really exciting.
00:18:43
Speaker
Oh, that's great.
00:18:44
Speaker
So the partnership that you entered, the Valentine's Day thing, where...
00:18:49
Speaker
you could kind of blind enter to Simon & Schuster through the RNA.
00:18:53
Speaker
Was that for a digital only publication?
00:18:57
Speaker
So that's a good question.
00:18:58
Speaker
I feel like I should know the answer.
00:19:00
Speaker
I'm like,
Navigating the Publishing Process
00:19:01
Speaker
I think it was.
00:19:02
Speaker
I think, yes, I think it was digital originals, which is kind of part of the books in the city imprint.
00:19:09
Speaker
So it was digital originals.
00:19:10
Speaker
So I knew it was going to be an ebook, but I didn't really know much more beyond that.
00:19:17
Speaker
And then as it went, obviously the audiobook came out October last year.
00:19:22
Speaker
So that was really exciting.
00:19:24
Speaker
And then also, obviously then got the date for the paperback, which is 31st August this year.
00:19:30
Speaker
So yeah, so I didn't, I don't think I knew there was going to be a paperback.
00:19:33
Speaker
It was never a definite.
00:19:35
Speaker
So I think, you know, when I found that out, and obviously I'm still yet to have that moment where I hold it in my hands and I see it on the shelf in a bookshelf and probably burst into tears.
00:19:45
Speaker
in the middle of the aisle so that's going to be a really emotional moment I'm really looking forward to that happening yeah that's that's the dream moment right when you go to the bookshop or the library or something and you see it in the shelves with all the authors that you've grown up with and stuff and you're like oh my god
00:19:58
Speaker
I can't believe it.
00:19:58
Speaker
So that still hasn't happened.
00:19:59
Speaker
So maybe that's kind of, I don't know, maybe I, I think part of me feels like maybe it won't feel real until I have that moment.
00:20:05
Speaker
I don't know.
00:20:06
Speaker
But also I'm not sure it ever feels real.
00:20:09
Speaker
Maybe I think when you speak to other authors, they're just like, I, you know, I just, it always feels like this.
00:20:14
Speaker
It never feels real.
00:20:15
Speaker
So I'm definitely in that where it,
00:20:17
Speaker
you know, in that mindset where it kind of feels like it's not happening to me, but it is, if that makes sense.
00:20:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:23
Speaker
Maybe once you've got a few more books, you'll accept the reality that the first book did come out.
00:20:29
Speaker
many books you have to have before before it just becomes normal to you i don't know but um yeah i'm still very much in that kind of i can't believe this is actually happening yeah yeah yeah so you are working on more books with simon and schuster so that that's that you've kind of extended your your your partnership with them yeah so book two is is yeah definitely happening and that's out next summer amazing
00:20:53
Speaker
So what's the, you're obviously happy at Simon Schuster.
00:20:59
Speaker
What's the process like?
00:21:00
Speaker
Was it kind of what you expected from having submitted your novel and working with editors and then it kind of finally going out?
00:21:06
Speaker
I guess I didn't know what to expect.
00:21:08
Speaker
If I'm totally honest, I think I had no clue of what to expect.
00:21:12
Speaker
And I think I knew what the process was.
00:21:15
Speaker
So I knew that there'd be a structure at first.
00:21:17
Speaker
I knew that there'd be more of a line edit and then a copy edit and then a final proofread.
00:21:23
Speaker
So I knew the stages, but I just wasn't really sure what that looked like.
00:21:28
Speaker
I do remember people asking me questions and saying, what do you have to do?
00:21:31
Speaker
What is a copy edit?
00:21:32
Speaker
What happens?
00:21:33
Speaker
I was like, I don't really know.
00:21:34
Speaker
I'm waiting for it to land in my inbox and then I'll figure it out.
00:21:39
Speaker
It was a real learning curve, I suppose, because I didn't know what to expect.
00:21:43
Speaker
But again, I feel like the editors that I work with at Simon Schuster are just fantastic and everything just makes sense.
00:21:49
Speaker
And everyone's just working towards that goal of just making the novel the best possible version that it can be.
00:21:56
Speaker
And it feels like, you know, that feels, it doesn't feel, it feels like a very natural process, which I think is great.
00:22:02
Speaker
And whenever the edits land,
00:22:04
Speaker
I always kind of read the notes and go, oh yeah, I completely get like where they're coming from and it all makes sense.
00:22:09
Speaker
And, um, so it's, yeah, so it's, it's been a good process and I feel like with book two, I've just got a much better understanding of like what that looks like and how it all works and fits together.
00:22:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:20
Speaker
Do you think like that kind of new confidence, do you think that will help you sort of, as you go through it a second time around?
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah, I hope so.
00:22:28
Speaker
I think obviously I've still got a lot of time on my side because book two's not out for a while.
00:22:33
Speaker
So that's helpful.
00:22:36
Speaker
But yeah, I think I do.
00:22:37
Speaker
And I think when you know you've done it once before, it feels like, okay, yeah, I know how this works.
00:22:41
Speaker
I know what I'm doing.
00:22:42
Speaker
So I probably do feel a bit more confident this time around.
Advice for Aspiring Writers
00:22:46
Speaker
And when you try to think, um, always great to ask people about advice.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I know people are, it's a bit shaky to give advice, especially when they're, um, that, that, you know, they, they're debut novelists and you don't feel like you've been in the industry for that long.
00:23:00
Speaker
But if you could go back to, let's say early 2021, when you kind of finishing writing this book and just thinking about submitting it, what advice would you give yourself?
00:23:12
Speaker
if you could go back that's that's a really good question what advice would I give myself um yeah I guess um just have to have that faith in yourself not to question yourself not to doubt yourself I think that um you know imposter syndrome is a is a thing and I think lots of authors kind of you know suffer from that and I think it's you know just just have that confidence in yourself and don't second guess yourself and just trust the process and it's all going to work out really and I think
00:23:40
Speaker
hopefully sort of with the second or do you feel like that's happening a bit more I feel like I probably not that I'm confident but I think I think everyone questions themselves but I do think that you know you can do it because you've done it once but then I suppose also at the same time when you're writing your first novel there's not really any pressure because you're just doing it for yourself you're kind of doing it
00:24:01
Speaker
for fun and you haven't really got any expectations and I guess with the second novel um it doesn't maybe there are expectations or not that you know I think you can sometimes put pressure on yourself not that there's necessarily any external pressure but I think you know those thoughts do you go through your head um you know I hope this is going to be as you know I hope I can do it again I hope this one's going to be as good all of those sort of thoughts um
00:24:24
Speaker
So I guess it's just, trust yourself is probably just have faith in yourself that you can do it.
00:24:30
Speaker
I think, yeah, we could all remind ourselves of that in whatever we're doing in life, couldn't we probably?
00:24:36
Speaker
Yeah, just stick with it.
00:24:38
Speaker
And, you know, if you work hard at it and eventually it'll probably come to fruition.
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:24:44
Speaker
And I think, you know, that can be hard, especially when you're, you know, sort of quite early in the process and you're staring at a blank page or you're figuring things out.
00:24:52
Speaker
I guess that can be a tough moment.
00:24:55
Speaker
So I guess just have that faith, definitely.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:24:59
Speaker
And that's great advice.
00:25:00
Speaker
And a great way to round off the episode going into our final question, which as always is, Julie, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book would it be?
00:25:13
Speaker
Oh, so
Desert Island Book Choice
00:25:14
Speaker
this is, I try to kind of trick you with this one because I was going to go for a Kindle and say that I put all my books on it and then it will be fine.
00:25:21
Speaker
But if I had to narrow it down, I think I'd probably, this probably wasn't actually that difficult because I think I always knew which one it was going to be.
00:25:29
Speaker
And that is going to be Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte.
00:25:33
Speaker
And I read that when I was studying English for my A-levels.
00:25:37
Speaker
So I was like 17 years old, which feels like a long time ago.
00:25:42
Speaker
And I think that was the book that made me want to study English at university and really kind of ignited my passion for reading.
00:25:51
Speaker
And I think that's when I knew that I wanted to do English for my degree.
00:25:56
Speaker
And I knew that books somehow were going to be,
00:25:59
Speaker
um important in my life somehow I haven't quite figured it out at that age but it definitely made um a real impression and it kind of um it sort of steered me on the right path I think yeah I mean uh any any book that kind of shapes you and sculpts you and sets you on a a certain trajectory is always going to be like any book that that's influential on you as a reader I think is always an amazing choice
00:26:24
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:24
Speaker
And I still, I was clearing out, I was going through some books actually a few weeks ago, my bookcase, and I've still got that copy of, from like, from my A-levels with all my notes, like handwritten in, bits highlighted and things.
00:26:36
Speaker
And, and yeah, and I've, I don't know why I've, I've just, you know, I've kept it all these years.
00:26:43
Speaker
And I don't have that much space in my bookcase, but it's, it's like the one book that's always stayed there.
00:26:48
Speaker
um and i've read it so many times and obviously there's been lots of different sort of tv adaptions and film adaptions and i just love the story so it's just one that always stays with me oh that's great that's great and um well thank you so much julie for coming on the podcast
Conclusion and Social Media Links
00:27:04
Speaker
and chatting with us telling us all about your your writing and your publishing adventures it's been really fun chatting with you yeah and thank you so much for inviting me on
00:27:11
Speaker
You are most welcome.
00:27:12
Speaker
And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Julie is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at jhowarthauthor or on Instagram at juliehowarthauthor.
00:27:23
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, follow along on all socials and to support the show, you can head over to Patreon.
00:27:28
Speaker
For more bookish chat, check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:27:32
Speaker
Thanks again to Julie and thanks to everyone listening.
00:27:34
Speaker
We'll catch you on the next episode.