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Sámi Land Protection - Ep 88
605 Plays4 months ago
On today’s episode, Jessica talks with Tuula Sharma Vassvik (Sámi activist, land protector, musician, podcast host, and freelance contractor in Heritage and Indigenous Methodologies) about their journey through archaeology to Indigenous methodologies and land protection in Sápmi. Tuula’s work focuses on solidarity across cultures and class, as well as community building and future building within Indigenous ways of life. We talk about their time at Standing Rock and how that shaped not only their Masters thesis, but their life trajectory. We also discuss their involvement in protests against wind turbines on reindeer herding areas, the destructive impact of farmed salmon on the coast and coastal Sámi people, as well as topics they have explored with their podcast guests, including Indigenizing queerness. Today’s takeaway: Don’t buy farmed salmon from Norway!
Links
- Heritage Voices on the APN
- Tuula’s Podcast: Vuostildanfearánat - Sámi stories of resistance on SoundCloud
- Vuostildanfearánat - Sámi stories of resistance on Spotify
- Arctic Silk Road: Imagining Global Infrastructures and Community Boundaries in Sápmi and the Russian North Project
- Tuula’s Instagram
- Tuula’s music
- Tuula’s article: VUOIŊŊALAŠVUOHTA—Sámi Spirituality, Yoik and Its Relations
- Master thesis
- Decolonizing Methodologies: Research and Indigenous Peoples by Linda Tuhiwai Smith
- Rauna Kuokkanen’s Restructuring Relations: Indigenous Self-Determination, Governance, and Gender
- RiddoDuottarMuseat
- Sámi protesters, Greta Thunberg, end demonstrations against wind turbines (News Article)
Additional Good Sámi Artists
Contact
ArchPodNet
- APN Website: https://www.archpodnet.com
- APN on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/archpodnet
- APN on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/archpodnet
- APN on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/archpodnet
- Tee Public Store
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 88
00:00:01
Speaker
you're listening to the archaeology podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome to Heritage Voices, episode 88. I'm Jessica Uquinto, and I'm your host. And today we are talking about Sami land protection.
Acknowledging Indigenous Lands
00:00:17
Speaker
Before we begin, I'd like to honor and acknowledge that the lands I'm recording on today are part of the Nooch or Ute People's Treaty Lands, the Diné Ta, and the ancestral Puebloan homeland.
Meet Tula Sharma Vasvik
00:00:27
Speaker
So today we have Tula Sharma Vasvik on the show, and Tula is going to introduce themself. Hey, my name is Thirla Sharma Vasvik, as you heard. I'm coastal Sami living in Oslo, the capital of Norway.
00:00:49
Speaker
Yeah, at the moment I'm working freelance, writing articles. I'm also working as a project leader of a project working on a guideline for Sami photo materials in Norwegian institutions. It's a guideline that will help non-Sami better contextualize the photo material as it is a lot of sensitive materials ah photo materials in ah these institutions. that That's archival and museums mainly, and libraries.
Podcast and Music Projects
00:01:30
Speaker
I also have a podcast called Vastelanferanat, which means resistance stories, but in it's in English and the English title is Sami Stories of Resistance. I'm also making music and I'm working on my first album, which is a lot of fun. And I'm playing live as well. And I have just started Yoikin, which is a Sami very old tradition of vocalizing, singing, but it's not singing. ah it's It's different. you should I could ah ah could add some some good Yoikin artists for the show notes.
00:02:23
Speaker
ah yeah I'm super curious
Becoming a Land Protector
00:02:27
Speaker
now. yeah I'm what in, you could say Western tradition would be called an activist, but what I would call a land protector. I have since Standing Rock in 2016 when I traveled there. being very involved in land protection worldwide, of course, but also here in Saphmi. And I've been a part of some, what could we call it, some land protection camps here and protests. And the last one was actually here in Oslo. We could talk more about that later, but
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's also something that I spend my time doing. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll have a lot of the different things that you mentioned in the show notes so people can check out more like your, your podcast and your music article, uh, that you wrote some different things. So definitely check out the show notes. I think that they will add a lot to this episode for sure. But yeah, i'm I'm just super excited to have you. As I mentioned before we got on, we tend to be a little North America heavy. So very excited to talk to you and and learn more about the issues that people are facing in other parts of the world. So to get us started, could you tell us a little bit more about what got you into this type of work?
From Archaeology to Indigenous Methodologies
00:04:05
Speaker
Hmm. I guess I started off with archaeology, studying archaeology, bachelor's, my bachelor's degree. Well, how did you, how did you even get into archaeology? yeah Um, that was very, it was a coincidence almost. Like I had no idea what I wanted to do when I, when I was done with primary and what do you say, like high school, maybe that's what you call it. So I, yeah, I just applied on a whim and, and decided that that was when I got in, I decided that that's what I was going to try and do. And I, yeah, I really, I was really into especially stone age and,
00:04:59
Speaker
also took part in some archaeological excavations ah which was a lot of fun and very made me realize also that maybe that's not actually something that would want to to continue on both because I felt like the what could you say like the the climate at that time was a bit
00:05:31
Speaker
I don't want to say like colonial, but I mean, just the way that people were talking, that archaeologists, my colleagues at that time were talking about prehistory and history made me feel like it was it was very close minded at that time. I mean, this is now a lot of years ago, so it's probably changed a lot since then. And it was actually through archaeology that I got into indigenous research or indigenous methodologies, which turned out to be what where I did my master's in in Trumsa. That was indigenous studies.
00:06:14
Speaker
And so i I definitely acknowledge that archaeology is a very powerful tool ah to ah for land um land acknowledgement and working alongside indigenous peoples to secure indigenous lands. So that's something that's very constructive and definitely something that I didn't really um have the knowledge about at that time. If I did, maybe I would. pursue that further. But part of my story as well, as I could go into it because it started around um my when I started studying with we getting to know Sami history. Because in norwegian in the Norwegian school system, there's maybe like one hour of education around Sami history, Sami issues. It's probably changed a bit now. I've met younger friends of mine and and younger people who have ah seem to have a bit more of a knowledge around Sami history and culture.
00:07:23
Speaker
But it's when I grew up, it was almost non-existent. So I actually got to learn about the Sami, not so much even Sami history or Sami culture, but the, the um what can you say? Like the the way that the the Western research or in this case, specifically specifically archaeology has deemed Sami cultural history as us very stagnant and almost, you know, ah frozen in time in a way so that there was very little interest in even researching Sami archaeology or Sami archaeological sites.
00:08:13
Speaker
even though there are or there were a lot of ah some archaeological sites that were registered, where my father's ah family is from, Ganga Vika, on the top of what we today call Norway, but ah what is actually south of me. There is a lot of really interesting archaeological sites and they are not protected and they are have not really been given that much attention as the really, really interesting
00:08:48
Speaker
sites they are. so but yeah long Long story short, it was through archaeology I actually got to read a bit about the way that Western archaeological research has omitted Sami prehistory in that way because of the racist idea that indigenous peoples are stagnant and does not evolve and change. So um yeah, that was very interesting. So that kind of sent me off on a journey towards getting to know more about my own family history and background and yeah, getting to know
00:09:31
Speaker
who I was as a Sami person growing up in ah in the capital of of Norway, so um which is further which which is very far down south, so it's not really a part of Safmi as we see Safmi today, but yes. a long answer. No, I love it. Okay. So I have a tendency to ask way too many questions at once. So I'm just going to ask you one, even though I have several in my mind, which is okay. So you switched to indigenous methodologies and where
00:10:08
Speaker
did you where did you go from there like what did you focus on with your masters yeah okay one question yeah where yeah what did you focus on with your masters.
Master's Thesis and Indigenous Knowledges
00:10:18
Speaker
I i focused on standing rock actually. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah because since we i me and my Sami friends and my yes um some people that I know were Sami activists were going to Standing Rock in the winter of 2006. I think it was the year that that Trump was um elected like to Yeah, so we were there during that winter, only for three weeks, but it was so amazing to be there. We were there as ah you know trying to to show solidarity and and in in any way we could contribute with the land protection at Standing Rock.
00:11:20
Speaker
And it was just a very life-changing experience, personally, for me. And it taught me so many things, both about Sami culture, because I hadn't before that lived in a level which is almost like a tipi. I hadn't lived in the Laval for more than, I mean, I had actually, but not during the winter. This was like 30 minus degrees in like Celsius. I don't know. I'm not sure what it would be in Fahrenheit, but it was cold. It was really cold. I mean, Standing Rock was, i'm i' I'm not sure if I should context contextualize, but it's in Standing Rock reservation.
00:12:10
Speaker
and on the lands of ah Dakota. i am I do think it was Lakota. daota Yeah, Lakota and Dakota. Lakota and Dakota, right? Yeah, and so it was just ah the fact that it was um this whole camp was in this very sacred land. and funded or started by you know regular people who just organically gathered from indigenous people and allies from all over the world.
00:12:48
Speaker
It was really just the the whole feeling of being there was felt very, is it's something that I carry with me and I think about it like almost every day, especially during the winter, um because it was it just gave me a lot of hope. Because what we could hear from the people who also were there was that this was a healing space and also like nothing to glamorize or anything like that. Of course, people came there and everyone brings with them their their their lives. right but But it was a place where, and this is something that I wrote about in my thesis as well, that
00:13:34
Speaker
a lot of people connected to their indigenous knowledges and spiritualities and and themselves and their elders. in in a very it it It was a ah ah place that gave people an opportunity to reconnect. And i it just worked so beautifully with ah with the way that the camp was set up, just with you know a kitchen space or several kitchen spaces. The toilets were so well kept. It was like this really ah good system that was put in place to make everything you know work in these freezing temperatures.
00:14:23
Speaker
And I was just so impressed and so it made me look at the future with a bit of a better, it made me feel like we have a future. I don't know how to say it differently because you know when we come together and organize based on those ah values that are so that are really the core values of a lot of indigenous people's lives and and traditions. I think it's it's so it really gives a ah a great structure to build community around and a ah well-functioning community as well.
00:15:09
Speaker
So I feel like this is something that definitely we as Sami land protectors brought with us for us inspiration and as something that we ah definitely went to see more of in Safmian, in other places, just that way of coming together. And it was also just, as I said, very organically formed in the way that people found what they were there to do. And they it all kind of formed together in a very functional
00:15:49
Speaker
ah way of living, like people were chopping wood for each other. ah we were We were all taking care of each other and that was just so beautiful to experience. So ah even though it was a very, you know, it was probably a traumatizing experience for many people with the violent clashes with with the security and yes, just a blatant, you know, really re encountering, you know, ancestral trauma. I think it also gave us a lot of power. So I'm just very, very grateful. I think, I think all of, all of us in that group, we're just so grateful that we got to be there and to take part in something so beautiful. And, um, yeah, I,
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting to to hear about that.
Challenges of Writing on Standing Rock
00:16:52
Speaker
You know, hear about Standing Rock from a different perspective. I've heard several people talk about it and it's always interesting, but definitely somebody like from outside the the US s talking about it, it's really interesting. So yeah, ah we're already at our first break point, but when we come back, I'd love to so to hear more about you know when you came back from Standing Rock and what direction that pushed you in and you know like where you went from there essentially. So we will be right back here in a moment.
00:17:27
Speaker
Okay, so coming back from our break, let's let's go back to you had this this really life altering experience at Standing Rock and then you go home and and where do you go from there? Yeah, so I didn't really know what I was going to write my master thesis about and I was encouraged to write about Standing Rock or my experience there, our experience there. So I decided to go with that and that felt, ah at the time it felt a bit overwhelming as ah it was just so much still to process. But then I figured out that I wanted to base ah my thesis on interviews of several women who were there.
00:18:17
Speaker
and it was Holy Elk, and Sinh Kala, Mahpia Wind, Black Owl, and Saara Marielle Geopepaska. So the the two firsts of the ah of ah my interviewees were both from Standing Rock, and Marielle Geopepaska was one of my um the ones that I stayed in camp with from Saphmi. And yeah, so what I found really challenging about writing about it is that I had some issues with you know actually saying anything about it that was from this outsider perspective that I had.
00:19:05
Speaker
I wanted the story to be told or this um analysis to come from you know these women who had been in this struggle for a long time and whose struggle was closer to to them right than it was for me. so And I also wanted to to bring another Sami perspective because I felt that it was a nice way two ah yeah to bring it all together in a way and to compare and see the the similarities and the differences.
00:19:44
Speaker
And definitely it I would love to have had a lot longer than I did, but it was a really, it really was ah a nice experience for me writing it. I didn't finish in time, I spent a lot longer than my peers but yeah it was I definitely love doing work yeah or writing in that way of in that mindset that this is not you know only my story it's the people that I'm writing together with and so I really I was encouraged by my supervisors and others to you know
00:20:31
Speaker
analyze more of their stories and to, you know, um in a way, you know, pick and pull different parts of it ah more. And, you know, i I definitely didn't want to use a framework that was, you know, that can be a very it In a way, it's a very and unequal power balance that that is created when a researcher you know interviews ah someone for their research. you know it it Even though it was just a master thesis, I felt like I didn't want to recreate that whole
00:21:13
Speaker
power balance that or non-balance that so often can come through in those in those contexts. so i mean Of course, it was it was hard to to do that because I didn't really have the support at the place I was studying to do it. ah within those um within indigenous methodologies.
Importance of Indigenous Methodologies in Research
00:21:38
Speaker
Yeah, so I was told that I should try to keep it objective at the same time as, or keep some object objectivity at the same time as i they wanted me to use indigenous methodologies. So it made me feel like they
00:21:57
Speaker
didn't really understand what indigenous methodologies was at the time. And so I i mean yeah i had to go and research it myself. And that is when I ah really got to read up on Yes, at the Trumsa University, they actually have a whole library dedicated to Indigenous Studies, which is amazing. So I just got to stay there and read up on everything that I wanted to.
00:22:37
Speaker
And so from that, I managed to do something that I felt was more in accordance with how I wanted this story to be told respectfully. And it was a very interesting when I was ah some like interviewed by the examinations for my master's thesis, defending my master's thesis. They had never read anything like it. yeah which also maybe says something about the the amount of people in in the Norwegian part of Sapmi who knew about this way of doing research at the time. but
00:23:22
Speaker
and know i mean it's it's it's years ago now so it's probably changed a lot but yeah it was really interesting to see how they reacted to it it ended well so i was really encouraged to take that way of of writing further and i have been writing since trying to yeah to remember that there's always this um writing and presenting people's stories. and There's a lot of power in that and it's very important that you respect the people that you are writing with or about and that they get to be a part of that process. so
00:24:07
Speaker
I'm really happy that i but i yeah that I learned that because its it's also changed. I mean, Indigenous researchers, especially from Turtle Island, First Nations researchers within Indigenous methodologies have, and also like New Zealand, Linda 2i Smith. There's so, so many amazing researchers who have done ah so much work to you know kind of turn the Western ways of looking at the world on themselves and me making them making ah Western traditions of research in a way
00:24:55
Speaker
Realizing that there's so many ways of looking at the world and looking at nature, looking at people, looking at history. And I'm very, very grateful that I got to to read up on all of these amazing people's work. so Yeah, I've tried to bring that with me and it's definitely changed me and it's facilitated a lot of processes within me of deconstructing my own way of thinking about the world and about myself. I mean, it's a process that that you have to keep being in and moving with, but it's yeah definitely very grateful for that. so
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah, so if any of our listeners are interested in incorporating more indigenous methodologies or you know writing more from that perspective or or anything like that, would you have any recommendations or thoughts about ways that that you've approached it that you think they would maybe find helpful? Yeah, I mean, um it's been a while since I've been reading up on what's what's going on in the field at the moment, but there are some really good sources that I could recommend. Rauna Kwakanen is a Sami scholar working, I think, in Canada. I think she was there the last time I
00:26:28
Speaker
checked and she has this book called Restructuring Relations which really ah had a huge impact on me and I know that from Sami perspectives or from other Sami researchers that that is a very is just an amazing the analysis of the situation in Saf Me Today, but also I think it it does apply to too many, you know, relations, both colonial and decolonial. And I mean, I'm still on Linda Tuiwai-Smith's fangirl role.
00:27:15
Speaker
She is just amazing and um her first book, oh, I i think I'm actually not sure. Yeah. It's a classic. I can't remember the title of it right now, but I'll definitely send some more links or some more sources for you to put in the show notes. Yeah. I think you're referencing decolonizing methodologies. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. yeah ah cru Always happy to share that one. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And she's probably, you know, done a lot more. And the I mean, I know that she's done so much more after that. So that was just the beginning. But
00:28:03
Speaker
If I were were to say, I mean, I don't know how much you've talked about this in previous episodes, but I feel that one of the most important things when it comes to working within Indigenous contexts is listening. I feel like that's something that is you know maybe a sign of the times, the fact that people don't really feel listened to, both when it comes to, I'm not sure about research these days because I haven't been a researcher for some time, but I know that a lot of people here in Saapmi feel really, don't really have much trust or faith in in the these systems that are in control.
00:28:59
Speaker
in our areas anymore. There's just been so much. I would even use like the term. I know it's maybe a bit passe and maybe people are tired of it, but gaslighting from from a state level is just so, it's it's so it it can make you lose your mind. yeah is It's a constant struggle. and i mean In these times, you know it's so it's so clear just from what's going on in the world today with the genocide in Gaza, with the Palestinian people.
00:29:40
Speaker
And the fact that the way this system of you know human rights and all of these things that we have been told are these pinnacles of Western civilization, it turns out that it doesn't really it's not applicable to everyone. it's And it's something that you know we we see here in SADME today with with several um Supreme Court cases that where where the state is failing or is unwilling to to take into account that some people have been winning court in court regarding land rights issues.
00:30:32
Speaker
And we are just getting dragged. Yeah. There's a lot going on this time. I would say. Yeah. Okay. Well, I definitely am very excited after the break to dive back into more of the, the, the current land protection efforts that you're working on in Satmi. So we will be right back and then we will, we will go deeper into what's happening right now.
00:31:03
Speaker
Okay, so we were talking before the break a little bit about, ah we're starting to to kind of um hint on your your land protection efforts that you've been working on
Recent Sami Land Protection Protests
00:31:15
Speaker
since. So could you tell us a little bit more about the work that you've done since you're your master's? Yeah, so after my master's, i um or after I finished my master's, i I went back to Oslo. But before that, I was in Glovdegeino, which is and inland ah in in Sapmi. And that was that was really important for me to to
00:31:48
Speaker
to get to know, you know, Safmeh is so vast, but I have mainly been on the coastal part of ah and norwegian they're in the side of Safmeh. So to have the opportunity to to be in Safmeh inland and to see that culture, which is very different and also has, in a way, been shielded a bit from the Norwegianization. I mean, it's still of course been very affected by it, but with with regards to language and culture, it I think it's unique in the way that
00:32:37
Speaker
you can still hear mainly here nor Sami when you go to the the but to get your groceries and that's the the first language there and most people speak. North Sami there. So I went there to to learn North Sami and that was so was really good. And then I went back to Oslo and got to know a bit more about the Sami community here, which is you know only always changing, but there's a hard core of Sami who call themselves ah
00:33:19
Speaker
what What's it called, like big city Sami? And yeah, we have our own way ah being of connecting to our Sami-ness. And there's Sami kindergarten here that I worked in. and But ah the past two years, there's been a lot of Sami movements really taking over ah the the city center. There has been both during last year's spring and this this year's last year's fall as well there was a huge movements ah protests so there were young activists from all over Sapmi taking over the federal government buildings in Oslo occupying them and we were we I think it it lasted the first one and that was in April
00:34:22
Speaker
last year lasted for at least two or three weeks, if I'm remembering correctly. And it was really a surreal experience and to be part of shutting down the government, ah different parts of government. And yeah, it really, you know, really brought up so many feelings for for me and I know from talking to to other people who are there that, you know, it really shows you how how how deep this this so this land or this this government has
00:35:14
Speaker
has gone like how far they have gone to try to just still try and control our lands but also our our culture. And this this was a protest because so we won, where the Fosen-Nyarka reindeer herding districts won in high court, Supreme Court, in verdict that said that basically the windmills that were put on ah put up on on their reindeer herding grazing
00:35:51
Speaker
lands, they were illegal. They weren't ah they hadn't been they didn't go through the the process in a correct way, basically. So it was ah yeah it's illegal and it's based on on indigenous human rights. yeah Yeah, so basically they they won won in high court against the state and deeming this windmill park illegal.
Conflict Over Illegal Windmills
00:36:23
Speaker
But the state still, because they said that the verdict doesn't say what we are going to do about these windmills, it just says that it's illegal. It doesn't say that we need to do anything about it.
00:36:40
Speaker
So that basically meant that they felt that the state ah managed to twist this case into being something that was still up in the air. From their perspective, they argued that the windmills, they are illegal, but they don't say that we have no one tells us what we have to do. So, or the verdict doesn't say what we have to do about it. So, hmm, maybe we don't really need to do anything about it. ah Which of course is like, I don't really even have words for for it. Because, yeah, it's just... is crazy. yeah So basically, the state said that we need to go through this whole case. And, you know, this is ah something that this reindeer cedar, the Fusan cedar has been, or one of the Fusan cedas has been
00:37:46
Speaker
you know, working on for decades, right? they that this ah When they first um planned this windmill park, from the from that minute they started working to prove that this would be very destructive for for the reindeer, obviously. So you know this these herders and their families have been under a lot of pressure for for yeah for decades.
00:38:19
Speaker
And the state basically uses bureaucracy to drag out and wear out Sami render herders and this is not the only case, you know it it is there's there's several other instances where where they basically are are doing the same and there's another case going on now ah regarding land rights to Garashoga, which also is on the Norwegian side of Safmi where they basically in court
00:38:57
Speaker
settled that this is ah the land, belongs to these people who come from this area. But the state wants to take this to high court. And this is just something that we're seeing ah you know all over, that that when when when in court even we win and we we argue and we use everything that we have to to show that this is you know inherently Sami lands and this is our human rights as indigenous peoples. there The state of Norway keeps pushing and yeah so it's it's very it's it feels like ah like Like we're still in the midst of you know the worst colonial history. I mean, it's not history even. and ah So it's very much taking place as we in these in these times as well. And many people say that it's much worse now than than it's ever been. so
00:40:06
Speaker
Yeah. Interesting. So are there other land protection efforts that you're working on in addition to the these wind turbines?
Ecological Impact of Fish Farming
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, we're we're all, I'm not working on it as of now, but I'm keeping keeping the situation air on the coast, trying to to um to follow what's going on there. And it's it's It's kind of overwhelming because there's so many areas now that are under attack and both ah by these big fish farms. And they have already almost you know fished up all of the fish on the coast of where my father is from. And so that's something that's been happening for for a long time.
00:40:58
Speaker
um and they're still very much ah continuing. But the the fish farms is something that the Norwegian state is, you know, they're really going for this fish farming thing because it's ah yeah it's a product that sells ah well. So they're they're trying to establish more and more of these, which is kind of insane because we have so many examples from other parts of the world where we see what it's doing to the ecosystem.
00:41:34
Speaker
And there's so much research on this both from animal welfare perspective but also from ecological perspective and it's nothing good about it. So the way it's been done now, um which is like in the sea, no protection, yeah all of the toxic and all of the disease, all of the the waste ah from these Terrible, terrible fish farms are going straight into the ocean. they The farmed salmon is escaping and um mating and ah with with wild salmon as well as ah polluting um and contaminating ah with with their diseases that they are bringing on to the wild salmon.
00:42:24
Speaker
So it's it's a very destructive to the environment we can say for sure. Somehow the Norwegian state keeps on planning these and building these or giving permits to build these fish farms all over. And in the area where my father is from, Gagavika, um my I have this Really weird memory of just hearing my uncle who's always been so, ah his passion is smoking salmon. m And hearing him say a couple of summers ago, well, I think we just have to, you know, get used to the fact that we can't get wild salmon anymore. It's very, very hard.
00:43:13
Speaker
And that was just so, you know, it was just so sad because I know that this is something that my family has done forever and somehow my my uncle is the one and also my aunt is are the ones that have been keeping these traditions alive. And it's just so plain to see that that you know what's with what's happening with the fish farming and is having very clear consequences for for us and for for all the Sami people who are living in that area and non-Sami as well, of course. So, yeah, it there is there is a lot of stuff happening and
00:44:03
Speaker
Please don't buy fish a farmed salmon from Norway. Just don't. Our lesson from the podcast. Yeah.
00:44:18
Speaker
this Actually, I'm going to add that in the show notes.
00:44:25
Speaker
So in addition to um those efforts, is there are there any other, ah since we're we're basically at the end of this this last segment, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about before we close out?
Personal Resistance and Decolonization
00:44:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think that what I'm trying to to do with my podcast, Vasteelan Farhanath, is sharing some people's stories, ah mainly Sami people's stories, about how to resist on a very personal bodily
00:45:02
Speaker
I don't know if that's the right way to say it, but like on on a very personal plane. And for many, so many people that really also, of course, also includes land protection and water protection because so they are a part of us. and it For example, in my case, i my I would feel very uncomfortable in my body if I didn't take part in these movements because um they're basically you know such a huge part of us. But also one thing that i I think is very important about decolonization or indigenization is the the personal aspect of ah decolonizing the way we think about
00:45:50
Speaker
ourselves and the world. And for me, it's been very helpful to to talk with other Indigenous artists and land protectors about these issues, about how they ah keep themselves well and healthy and have hope in these times where we have so much going on and I feel that that is something that I very much want to keep working on. It's a continuous process but definitely um something that is very important if we're gonna have the strength to survive and thrive in Sapmi.
00:46:39
Speaker
today and in the future. I'm very much about ah dreaming about and thinking about and creating Indigenous futures. And yes, if anyone wants to talk to me about stuff like that, I'm very happy. to yeah to engage because I feel that that's something that we really need to we need to prioritize to dream and think and create positively and positive futures for ourselves. that is so That's what we're fighting for. So yeah, I'm very interested in in that.
00:47:23
Speaker
susan you know We had talked before about talking about land protection and and indigenizing queerness. Did you get to talk about what you wanted to say there or did you have more that you wanted to talk about there?
Queerness and Sami Identity
00:47:33
Speaker
A part of indigenizing myself has been actually in part of creating an episode for the podcast called indigenizing queerness where we started to talk about with with an amazing Sami artist called Timimi Marek.
00:47:56
Speaker
Timimi Gaskumarek and a really beautiful friend of mine called Nidarsika Paramalingam, who also is a Norwegian Tamil activist and writer and, yeah, a really, really talented person. And we went into this subject because we wanted to talk about queerness in a Sami context or an indigenous context. And we yeah we We got into some really nice ah themes there and it's made me think a lot about and my own identity ah being non-binary and tying that back to also being Sami because in Sami language they're the only pronoun is son and that
00:48:54
Speaker
and can be used for all, everyone. So that income encompasses all genders. And when you also go into the the history and the really early sources of and that is that's written about Sapmi, people who came to Sapmi, There is this this kind of, of course, there this this alienation of of these people right that no one has seen before and it's so so different and everything, but at the same time it's this really interesting way, this really interesting
00:49:35
Speaker
ambiguity that is express expressed when talking about Sami people and gender. And I feel that Sapmi, from a spiritual perspective, is a very matriarchal culture. But at the same time, I'm not sure ah how much gender really played a role. in the past before the Christianization of Sami people. And from the sources, they they said that, oh, these people are, it's it's like hell, you can't see the difference between man and woman. So I'm really intrigued. I feel like there must have been some I really um must have been a whole different world and we are together with other queer Sami trying to puzzle that together a little bit, not that we have to base every everything about Sami culture in the
00:50:33
Speaker
far where in the far past, but it's really it's really it really feels good to be able to tie it back to our ancestors, to queer ancestors, because it's very clear from some sort from sources that that our way of relating to gender has been different than these Victorian gender roles that were pushed on us through and the regionization and colonization and Christianization. So ah that's something I'm also really interested in figuring more out. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate you taking so much time, especially so late in the day, your time. Yeah. Just, it was great chatting with you. Very interesting. And yeah, maybe sometime we'll, we'll have you back, talk even more about all of these topics because I know there's
00:51:28
Speaker
Yeah, way more things that I could have asked you about. But but yeah, thank you so much. Thank you.
00:51:37
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Heritage Voices podcast. You can find show notes at www.archaeologypodcastnetwork.com. slash heritage voiceices Please subscribe to the show on iTunes, Stitcher, or the Google Play Music Store. Also, please share with your friends or write us a review. Sharing and reviewing helps more people find the show and gets the perspectives of Heritage Voices amazing guests out there into the world. Don't we just need more of that in anthropology and land management? If you have any more questions, comments, or show suggestions, please reach out to me at Jessica at livingheritageanthropology.org. If you'd like to volunteer to be on the show as a guest or even a co-host, reach out to me as well, Jessica at livingheritageanthropology.org. You can also follow more of what I'm doing on Facebook at Living Heritage Anthropology and the non-profit Living Heritage Research Council or on Twitter at LivingHeritageA. As always, huge thank you to LiableAnqua and Jason Nez for their collaboration on our incredible logo.
00:52:43
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.