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Buffalo Bull
25 Plays2 years ago
Josh and M discuss the recent (at time of recording) racially-motivated mass shooting in the USA: the Buffalo Shooting of May 2022.
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Josh is @monkeyfluids and M is @conspiracism on Twitter
You can also contact us at: podcastconspiracy@gmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Podcast Theme
00:00:09
Speaker
The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Addison and Dr. M. Denton.
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the podcast as Guide to the Conspiracy. I am Josh Addison in Auckland, New Zealand, and in Juhai, China, we have Associate Professor of Philosophy and two-time winner of the Academy Award for Best Cinematography, but not that Academy, a different one. It's true, we don't.
00:00:33
Speaker
We don't talk about that Academy.
Academy Award Conspiracy
00:00:36
Speaker
I was talking to a colleague the other day about the way in which if you capitalise a name like the Academy, you know it refers to something important, and you also usually know what it refers to. And the thing is, I won my award from the Academy lowercase, an Academy you haven't heard of. And that's the way we like it. It's pretty obscure, probably he'll do it. So
Buffalo Shooting and Conspiracy Theories Introduction
00:01:01
Speaker
We have a grim and depressing topic this week, unfortunately. So possibly we should... We might tone down the flippeness. Not completely, I suppose. It's a little bit hard to avoid, but... Well, I mean, the episode is going to end with a very ridiculous conspiracy theory. So there will be light at the end of the tunnel. The actual tunnel itself is dark, dank and dangerous.
00:01:26
Speaker
Because of course we're going to be talking about the recent mass shooting in Buffalo, and the conspiracies it has caused to come to light, and also the conspiracies it was based on in the first place. And I don't think we have anything else to say to talk to. We should quite specifically say the conspiracy theories here, because actually...
00:01:46
Speaker
We're not really talking about actual conspiracies here. We're talking about the imagined conspiracies of people who think that the white race is under peril. So we're talking about imagined conspiracies or conspiracy theories. No conspiracies are going to come to light in this episode. We're simply going to cast the light on some unwarranted conspiracy theories. But unless you have any other disclaimers, she'll get straight into it.
Details of the Buffalo Shooting
00:02:12
Speaker
I think we should.
00:02:18
Speaker
So we're recording this on the 19th of May, on the 14th of May, an 18 year old white supremacist terrorist shot a bunch of people in Buffalo. We're not going to be giving you his name for the same reason we didn't name the similar shooter from Christchurch of a few years ago.
00:02:39
Speaker
But he walked into a tops friendly markets store in Buffalo in New York, shooting people inside. He had 10 people at the time of recording have died with three others injured. He was taken in alive. Police came and he stood down and has been taken into custody. So where should we where should we start with the conspiracies around the shooting or the conspiracy theories around the shooting or the conspiracy theories behind the shooting?
00:03:07
Speaker
Let's start with the conspiracy theories around the shooting, and then we can move in to talk about the motivating conspiracy theory which caused the shooting, and then we'll do a relatively deep dive into the manifesto.
Shooter's Manifesto and Initial Theories
00:03:24
Speaker
I was about to say he left behind, he's not dead, so the manifesto he wrote and posted online just prior to the events in question.
00:03:32
Speaker
Because, of course, I was quite interested in the immediate response to the news of the mass shooting in Buffalo, New York, because people were immediately going, it's our old friend, the false flag. And some of these conspiracy theories actually concern the manifesto itself. So as I said, we're going to a deep dive into the manifesto proper. But some of the initial conspiracy theories simply remark on
00:04:01
Speaker
what people take to be abnormalities in the manifesto he wrote. So the manifesto is 180 pages in length, as I'll discuss later on in the episode. Most of it is a how-to guide as to how to commit a massacre and what things not to use. But people noted that there are some weird aspects of the manifesto other than the fact it's anti-Semitic and what's a coming race war.
00:04:28
Speaker
So for example, very early on in the manifesto, he claims to believe, to believe, and this is the strong word, believe he's ethnically white. And some people think that's a really odd thing for a white supremacist to say, to say that he believes he's ethnically white, rather than stating that he is ethnically white. Yes, I mean, is it just just that sort of pedantry where he isn't one of these white supremacists who's gone and taken a DNA test. So he's
00:04:58
Speaker
pedantic enough to want to leave a disclaimer if it turns out that there is some non-white DNA in his past, but as
00:05:04
Speaker
as far as he knows his ancestry is white. I don't know. So I think there are two things here. One, he's an engineering student and you might go, hmm, engineering students don't necessarily have the best of written prose.
Analysis of Manifesto's Gun Content
00:05:21
Speaker
Josh, you have an experience of being an engineering student in the past and now have a job all about prose. But the other thing to note is
00:05:29
Speaker
His family ancestry from Europe comes from Italy. And if you know anything about white supremacism and white nationalism, there are certain white nationalists who do not think of Italians as being white. So I also think he's doing the, he believes he's ethnically white because he's aware there are members of his community who will deny that claim. And later on the manifesto, he makes a big deal about being both ethnically white and culturally white.
00:05:58
Speaker
And so I think he tries to slip in his Italianness as being whiteness through links to such glorious things as the Roman Empire and the light. Obviously. So what else? I mean, you talk about weird things in the manifesto. It seems more like minor discrepancies, the sort of things conspiracy theorists do love to pounce on, though.
00:06:18
Speaker
Yes, conspiracy theorists of a certain stripe do like to pounce on these kind of small abnormalities. And another one is early on in the manifesto, he rejects the location of the event in question in case people read the manifesto before he commits his atrocious crime. Even in the text asks people to update that section after the fact. But much later on in the manifesto,
00:06:47
Speaker
He gives the zip code for the area, the state that he's going to commit the atrocity in, and the name of the store and the time of the day he's going to attack. So people are going, oh, isn't it weird that he says he's going to redact this information, but he's left a little bit in towards the end.
00:07:07
Speaker
Or he forgot that he'd mentioned it twice because it's 180 pages long. And I don't know about you, but I've never written a 180 page document. Might have written 180 pages in total.
00:07:20
Speaker
in my life but yeah I don't think I could remember everything that was in there where I should go back. I mean I know as someone who has written long text and has trouble updating even short text to make sure that I take placeholders out or update placeholders as things go into final production. I mean one thing which is also interesting he claims he was going to attack the
00:07:44
Speaker
Top's Friendly Market Store in Buffalo, New York at 4pm. He actually attacked at 2pm.
00:07:50
Speaker
So he did change his plan after the fact anyway. You might even think that he may have left some of the details in order to distract people and not make them aware that he was going to perform the attack two hours prior to the state of time. So I understand the manifesto includes the claim that he will plead guilty, assuming he isn't killed by the police, but apparently he's actually plead not guilty. As far as I know, yes, he's plead not guilty to first-degree murder.
00:08:20
Speaker
a murky, mysterious phenomenon known only to the select few as changing your mind, I believe. And no one ever does that, George, is what makes it really unusual. Suspicious. Now, people have made something of the fact that it copies text from the Christchurch Shooters Manifesto, although as I believe we're going to talk about later, that's kind of the point, isn't it? He based a lot of this stuff
00:08:44
Speaker
He directly states he's inspired by the Christchurch terrorists, so it is very much a case of taking that person's ideas and going one step further with writing an actual how-to guide.
00:09:01
Speaker
But we'll talk more about those similarities and dissimilarities later on in the episode. So this does seem a little bit straw-clutchy to try and claim that this manifesto contains enough to make you suspicious that the whole thing's a false flag. I mean, we've said this a million times before. People will just say false flag before they know anything about it at all and will then try and jump on anything to try and prove it.
00:09:25
Speaker
The gun business, I think he talks about the idea that it's going to inspire Democrats to enact more gun control or something, but some people claim he's too technical about the guns or something. What's the claim there? So the manifesto is 180 pages in length. 100 of that 180 pages in length is the how-to guide.
00:09:52
Speaker
which a significant proportion of that 100 pages is a discussion about why the gun he chose was the wrong gun and better guns were available. And people have noted that it's so technical and so in-depth about particular guns and the advantages of using particular guns over other ones that it almost looks like it's name-checking
00:10:15
Speaker
every gun type and every gun manufacturer such that if you wanted to revise American gun laws you could use the description in this manifesto as a way of working out which of the bad guns you want to get rid of.
00:10:31
Speaker
Now of course this is all resting upon the idea that this mass shooting, amongst all of the many mass shootings that have occurred in America this year alone, let alone the last five years, is going to be the one that finally makes people revise gun laws in the United States of America.
00:10:51
Speaker
So it's one thing to go, well, this could be a false flag. But the case of no, every single time people say this is a false flag designed to bring about gun regulation in the US, it never happens. So yeah, then we have a lot of the usual crap, I suppose the the whole the whole lone wolf thing, which I'm seeing more and more pushback against that the idea that no, these people are not bloody lone wolves, they may, they may have planned and and
Media Influences on the Shooter
00:11:20
Speaker
acted on their own in the event, but they are part of a society that feed off each other and, as he explicitly says, inspire one another. So the mental illness, of course, comes up. I think people have immediately pointed out the numerous times Taika Carlson of Fox News
00:11:41
Speaker
has talked about the sorts of theories that appear to have motivated the shooter theories that we'll be talking about in a moment. Now, I saw Tucker Carlson throw a clip from his show just today, I think it might have been yesterday, basically doubling down and saying, no, none of what they're saying is true and everything I'm saying is true.
00:12:00
Speaker
And it started playing the mental illness card instantly. Because one mentally ill teenager does this thing, then we all need to whatever. And I don't, it wasn't even where anyone has actually officially in any way claimed mental illness on the guy's part, unless you want to say that anyone performing a mass shooting is mentally ill by definition, which kind of undercuts the idea that
Racial Motivations and Media Double Standards
00:12:22
Speaker
it's a false flag. Which is a very problematic move to make.
00:12:25
Speaker
Oh, very much so. Well, yeah, there's nothing not problematic about the Tucker Carlson style of take on things. What else is there to say about conspiracy theories? Well, you get the really weak source, a really, really weak source, response to these things, which is, oh, but I mean, black people kill white people, you know.
00:12:48
Speaker
And you go, I mean, this is the kind of thing, which is it turns out that when African-Americans kill anyone, particularly if that killing involves a we're no longer a video podcast. We're going to say when I put the scare quotes around white people here is if there's a homogeneous white, white people out there. We need the African-Americans kill white people. People like Alex Jones will allege
00:13:17
Speaker
that the motivation is some kind of systemic racial animus, the idea that they hate us. But when a white person kills anyone else,
00:13:28
Speaker
who isn't white, suddenly it's a lone wolf act with no context necessary. They're mentally ill. They were acting on their own. There's nothing else to see here. And so there's this weird thing where people go, oh, but black people kill people too, you know. In the case of, I mean, no one's denying that murders and attacks happen across ethnicities.
00:13:54
Speaker
The thing is, it turns out that we only seem to think that one type is bad. And the other one, we seem to go to an awful long length to go, oh, no, no, no, it's a one off event. It's certainly not related to all the other one off events of the same type we've seen recently. I think other people have tried to claim it's not not not not white supremacism or not about race, because he chose, according to the manifesto, the location, chose Buffalo, at least due to the gun laws.
Understanding the Great Replacement Theory
00:14:24
Speaker
in New York state and they're saying, oh, see, it wasn't it wasn't racially motivated. That's how he picked his target. I'm pretty sure the manifesto covers this sort of thing, but I'm I'm pretty sure it could be both could. Yeah. And I mean, there were numerous locations in that area that were not frequented mainly by African Americans.
00:14:43
Speaker
And if it was really only location he chose, you do have to ask, why did you spend so many pages in the manifesto talking about how the Jewish race is evil, but we need to kill off the super fertile blacks first, and then go after the Jew? Yes, which of course is getting into the main theory, the animating theory behind all of this, which these days seems to go by the name of the Great Replacement.
00:15:11
Speaker
Great replacement is kind of a newer term for quite an old conspiracy theory. It's one of those cases as we'll see it. There has been and we have talked about the whole sort of white genocide conspiracy theory that's been around for quite a long time, the idea that
00:15:29
Speaker
by whatever means, the white race is in danger of becoming extinct, being bred out of existence, or straight out genocided out of existence. And The Great Replacement kind of started as sort of a specific subsetty bit of that, but I think these days the term is morphed to just become kind of an umbrella term about the whole thing, so that now Great Replacement and
00:15:50
Speaker
White genocide, white extension are pretty much synonymous. It's an idea, of course, that people these days seem to mostly be concerned with immigration. There's been ideas of race war and stuff like that in the past, but these days it's mostly about immigration. Demographic change is going to result in non-white populations displacing white populations in countries that have majority white populations.
00:16:15
Speaker
This becomes a conspiracy theory, of course, when they bring in the idea that certain elites are actually engineering the situation that, you know, say in the States, the claim made by Tucker Carlson and other white supremacists is that the Democratic Party is deliberately engineering immigration policy so as to let in a whole bunch of non-white people to replace, slash, displace
00:16:41
Speaker
white population. Often one reaction which people have, which I've seen many times, come up is, why, if say this is true, why would that be a problem?
00:16:52
Speaker
Oh, so you think white people might become a minority? Oh, is that bad? Do we treat minorities badly? I thought you said racism didn't exist and minorities have exactly the same deal as everyone else. That's a little bit odd. That is a bit rum, isn't it? A little bit of inconsistency in their thoughts. You'll be surprised to learn that not all of the great replacement white supremacist theories are well thought out or rational.
00:17:18
Speaker
Shocking, I know. I'm going to need some working on that. And when I say I'm going to need some working on that, I'm being facetious because I actually don't need to see any work on that. I've seen enough working on that to show that you are completely right. But at the same time, let's put our cards on the table and discuss the history of this great replacement theory.
Historical Evolution of the Great Replacement Theory
00:17:40
Speaker
Yes, so like I say, the term great replacement is relatively new. But the theory has been around in one form or another for quite a long time. So like the early, early 20th century, eugenics theories like early 1900s, which we've talked about a long time ago, they were there were worries there about, about non whites supplanting white populations, that the early eugenicist stuff wasn't necessarily overtly conspiratorial, because there's always been
00:18:10
Speaker
these very sort of racist or classist stereotypes about other races or the lower classes, that they all breed like rabbits. There's a certain sort of breed, certain subspecies of racist stereotype that says these certain people, the women are all promiscuous, the men are all rapacious, they just can't stop having children, it's in their animalistic nature. And so in these earlier cases, it's like,
00:18:39
Speaker
just by their nature, these populations will out-reproduce us unless we do something about it. That's a conspiracy theory that's still around, and we'll see when we get them to the manifesto elements of that attitude that stereotypes still show up. What's interesting about the early 20th century eugenic theories of this type, so also the ableist eugenic theories of the early 20th century as well, that we need to get rid of disabled people in our society.
00:19:05
Speaker
But early 20th century eugenics of the racist type, as you say, they weren't conspiratorial because people were being overtly racist about this. There was no hidden motivation here. They were simply saying these people are not as good as white people, and we should do something about it. What's interesting about the Great Replacement Theory now is that the racism is often encoded or coded in such a way that it's not meant to be overtly racist.
00:19:33
Speaker
you're simply meant to recognize the dog whistle that, you know, immigration is changing our society. Oh, but what kind of society do we live in? Oh, we live in a white Christian identity society. And there's something precious about preserving that. And obviously, when you think about it, the introduction of
00:19:54
Speaker
non-white, non-Christian people into that society would be a bad thing. And oh, there's an old term we used to use for that, which is old race. Yes, there are certain races who are infiltrating our society, but I never said race was the issue. I said it was about protecting our white Christian identity. Heritage. Yes, yes. And then...
00:20:15
Speaker
Excuse me, still got a little bit of that Covid around, just can't quite shake this cough. So eugenics obviously fell quite strongly out of favour following World War II when the Nazis got their hands on it and sort of showed where it could really lead. The Nazis themselves, part of the Nazi propaganda, involved concerns about the white, the Aryan race dying out and being replaced by these other races that they wanted to get rid of.
00:20:41
Speaker
I saw a comment just the other day in reference to this case in The Great Replacement Theory that the Rwandan genocide in 1994 was remarkable for the fact that you had the Hutu government actually going on the radio and telling its citizens, you need to get out there and kill all the Tutsis. And one of the things they said was that they had these plans, they wanted to kick you out, they wanted to replace you, so you need to kill them before they do that. It was sort of
00:21:08
Speaker
used there. In short, I've had a quick look at the Rwandan genocide. Don't read anything about the Rwandan genocide. Honestly, it's one of the most, one of the most nightmarish situations to ever occur. But the Manthianist Bagasura, the Hutu government leader who was supposedly the mastermind of this genocide, was found not guilty of conspiracy to commit genocide. He was found guilty of genocide, wasn't found guilty of conspiracy to commit genocide, because they reckon they couldn't prove that he had conspired. It's funny how these things work.
00:21:38
Speaker
Anyway, that's a side
Renaud Camus and French Immigration Challenges
00:21:39
Speaker
point. A little bit closer, actually, one year closer to the present day, 1995, American neo-Nazi David Lane wrote his White Genocide Manifesto, and I think, am I right in thinking that's where the term white genocide really got its, really became popularized? I feel I should know this, and I think you're right, but in case you're wrong, I'm just going to go maybe...
00:22:06
Speaker
So anyway, so that was a big moment in the white genocide conspiracy theory, but it's not until 2011 that the term Great Replacement became popularised by a French author, Renaud Camus, who wrote a book called The Great Replacement, Le Grand En Placement.
00:22:24
Speaker
And so I believe the Turnbrake relationship, I don't think he invented it, but like most people, you sort of, there'll be a term that maybe has come up before, but then one person will actually popularize and be responsible for actually getting out there into the wider world. So like I did with the terms, particularism and generalism. They are my terms, but I'm the person who pushed the rest of the literature.
00:22:48
Speaker
So this is a book, he said it was inspired by things such as British politician Enoch Powell's famous Rivers of Blood speech, the anti-immigrant speech he gave in the 1960s. Now, like I said, The Great Replacement originally was more specific. These days, it's basically synonymous with the whole white genocide conspiracy theory, but the book The Great Replacement was specific to France. He was talking about the situation that is going on in France in 2011. So he's worried about immigration
00:23:17
Speaker
changing the demographic makeup of French society and it's going to result in white French people being replaced by other immigrants, immigrants of other races.
00:23:29
Speaker
And I mean, France is a really interesting example here because they are, I'm about to use the word precious here, and it may not be the right term, but they're very precious about conserving their cultures. They don't want their language to be ameliorated by the introduction of the 100 Immortals. And they're very concerned by making sure that if a food has a French name, it comes from a particular region in France, which is why I've got all those,
00:23:58
Speaker
It's not sparkling racism unless it comes from the racist region of France. And they also have very strict rules about codes of dress. So the idea of particular religious symbols being prohibited in public places, which includes Christian symbols as well. But it does seem that most of the laws are predominantly aimed towards Muslim immigrants, forcing them to integrate into
00:24:26
Speaker
a Catholic-like French society. So it's kind of, it makes sense that Camus in the sense is interested in the changing nature of French society because French society itself is very interested in maintaining its status quo and not being affected by the fact that France is still
00:24:48
Speaker
a colonial power. So the issue with France isn't just immigration. The issue with France is it has holdings in Africa, it has holdings in the Pacific, and France would like those parts of the world to be French rather than hold their local indigenous identity. And so France is in this really weird crossroads of preserving itself
00:25:14
Speaker
whilst maintaining colonial work overseas, and also being part of the EU, which allows immigration to occur and travel across borders with ease. So the book, The Great Replacement, that uses a lot of World War Two imagery, lots of allusions to the French resistance, refers to the immigrants as being occupiers, refers to the quote unquote, replacest elites.
00:25:38
Speaker
These are as we talked about when you get into a conspiracy theory with the idea that you have certain elites are actually engineering the situation. These in this case, he compares them to collaborators in World War Two. He compares himself and the people who
00:25:54
Speaker
believe the same things he's doing as being like the French Resistance. He even goes so far as to refer, as to compare the the white quote unquote genocide that's trying, that's being engineered in France to the genocide suffered by the Jews in World War Two.
Anti-Semitic Elements in Great Replacement Theories
00:26:09
Speaker
Which yeah, that's, if you're gonna make an analogy, I posit that's not the one to make.
00:26:14
Speaker
Now, to begin with, one thing that did distinguish the Great Replacement conspiracy theory with the wider white genocide theories is that the Great Replacement at least initially did not appear to include any sort of anti-Semitic aspect because the white genocide theories all tend to be very anti-Semitic along with the general racism.
00:26:36
Speaker
the, as you say, the kind of immigration that tended to concern people and still does in France is Muslim immigration. So that sort of distinguishes you to begin with. But then, as I say, the term has become used more and more widely to cover the whole thing. So these days,
00:26:54
Speaker
I think the terms white genocide and great replacement tend to be synonymous. As you can see by the fact that the protests in Charlottesville just a few years later had people chanting, Jews will not replace us. You're already talking about replacement and Jews in the same breath. Interesting to note that Camus himself claims that his philosophy is a nonviolent philosophy and that he disapproved of any sort of white nationalist violence. But as people have said, it's kind of hard
00:27:23
Speaker
to see how else he expects people to respond to his book of saying that there is an existential threat to French society that's a deliberate act by certain factions within society. It's like, what do you expect people to do about that if they genuinely believe it other than take action and you've made it sound desperate enough that really only violent action was going to
00:27:48
Speaker
going to have any sort of an effect. So people have kind of, well he officially says he does not condone white nationalist violence. White nationalist violence has no problems appealing to the sorts of theories that he puts forwards.
00:28:04
Speaker
Now, Great Replacement, of course, is something that has made reference to by the shooter in Christchurch, by the notable mass shooting in El Paso the year later in 2019.
Manifesto's Influence on Other Shootings
00:28:16
Speaker
The Buffalo shooter also refers specifically to this theory. And as we said before, the Buffalo shooter refers explicitly to the Christchurch shooter, doesn't he, as a major... what's the word I'm looking for?
00:28:28
Speaker
Inspiration. Inspiration. Thank you. I don't know why that one wouldn't come out. Major inspiration of his own manifesto and, of course, his own actions. So maybe it's time to talk about the manifesto. Yes, a manifesto that you really can't admit to knowing much about, can you?
00:28:45
Speaker
No, that's the thing. So you may recall the Christchurch Shooters Manifesto is classed as objectionable information in New Zealand. So it's illegal to own or distribute. It sort of puts it in the same category as like child pornography or what have you. And unless you have a dispensation. So you yourself applied for and was granted a dispensation to read
00:29:10
Speaker
the shooter's manifesto and initially I was going to say so did you have to do that have you looked at the manifesto did you have to get a dispensation but then I remembered hang on you're not actually in New Zealand anymore
00:29:19
Speaker
So did you have to do anything to get you, you know, did you have to jump through any hoops? Was it simply a matter of looking for it and finding it? I, I mean, I actually don't know whether there's any classification of it here. Oh, sorry, I should also, I should also say the Buffalo Shooters manifesto immediately was sort of provisionally classed as objectionable material, the same as the Christchurch Shooters. They sort of did that straight away.
00:29:42
Speaker
and maybe review it later, but given that what I understand, it seems to be of a kind, I can't imagine that... Yeah, I mean, even though our chief censor has stepped down and we have an interim chief censor now, so maybe things might be different, I can't see that this particular manifesto being not that different from the Christchurch one will be classified in any different way to the Christchurch one.
00:30:10
Speaker
No, so finding it was initially difficult.
Online Accessibility of the Manifesto
00:30:16
Speaker
It turns out that putting the word Buffalo Manifesto into a search engine got you nothing whatsoever because the big search engines and social media have been doing their best. And I'm going to put an asterisk beside that because I'm going to criticize this in a minute to make sure the information doesn't spread.
00:30:36
Speaker
A friend of mine did try to send me a copy of the manifesto, but it was sent using an online platform that immediately recognized it as objectionable material and said, no, you can't share this particular document. But because I was able to see what the file name was,
00:30:55
Speaker
I was then able to go to DuckDuckGo, put the file name into the search engine, and the first hit I got was a full copy of the manifesto, which kind of goes to show that if you've got enough information, you can still find the stuff online. And surely, if there's a common file name to an objectionable piece of material, that is something you block from the outset. So on one level, well done.
00:31:22
Speaker
search engines for making it relatively difficult to find the material with a cursory search. But if people know what they're looking for, it's actually trivially easy to locate this manifesto online. So as I say, it would be illegal for me to have a copy of it here in New Zealand. And so I have not
00:31:41
Speaker
read it in any way and frankly don't care to but luckily for me I have you who have read the whole thing so if all 180 pages all 180 mostly boring pages for reasons I'll get into
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah, so what I have heard about the manifesto is that, A, it refers strongly to the Christchurch shooter, B, the shooter refers to being basically radicalized over the internet, C, it's very, very long, and D, like the Christchurch shooter's manifesto, it's full of memes and sort of 4chan bollocks when it's not full of boring technical detail.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, although, and this is gonna be a weird thing for me to say, the memes in the Christchurch Shooters Manifesto were more interesting than the use of memes in the Buffalo Shooters Manifesto because it's kind of perfunctory the way the memes are used in the Buffalo Shooters Manifesto. It's almost as if he expected that people wanted memes. So he has a large chunk of text and go, oh, and here's three pages of memes for you to look at as well.
00:32:52
Speaker
the Christchurch shooter kind of integrated the memes into the text. Now this is a very weird complaint to have about a terrorist manifesto, I realise, but at the same time you take whatever, and I'm using it in quotes here, joy you can get from reading something
00:33:11
Speaker
where you can get it when you're reading dismal and dire material. So then, give us your notes. What did you take from this manifesto? Okay, so the things we've already talked about, it's 180 pages in length, and 100 of those pages is the how-to guide for committing a massacre.
00:33:30
Speaker
There's quite a bit of discussion in the text as to why he chose that particular convenience store and why attacking at a particular time was the best time. So it does make the crime incredibly premeditated. There's no spirit of the moment thing. This is, no, I'm putting this manifesto online because I'm going to do this particular act.
00:33:53
Speaker
I'm going to state where it's going to occur and approximately when it's going to occur, given he said it would be at 4pm when it actually turned out to be two hours earlier. He does talk a lot about how New York State would be a great place for a massacre due to it relatively in comparison to the rest of the United States, highly regulated gun laws.
00:34:15
Speaker
And most of that is a discussion as to why he thinks he's going to survive the massacre. So with the highly regulated gun laws in New York, he thinks it's more than likely that he will not die during the process of this massacre, which is why he talks about how he's going to plead guilty
00:34:36
Speaker
serve time in prison and hope that the great revolution occurs whilst he's in prison, so he can then be released as a hero to his people. As we now know, he's pled not guilty, so has changed his mind about this. I'd be quite curious to know whether he changed his mind or whether his representation encouraged him to change his mind, but that part of the story is no longer accurate.
00:35:04
Speaker
As I said, a goodly portion of the remaining work are images, mostly memes put in a kind of perfunctory fashion, and screenshots of news stories, and a lot, and I mean an awful lot, of out of context graphs, which I was particularly aware of, given I'm teaching a critical thinking course at the moment, and going
00:35:28
Speaker
I mean, I know what you're trying to say with this graph, but without any context, that's just a meaningless image like the rest of your text. So why I'm picking him for that? I don't know. I'd say that his evidence is cherry picked.
00:35:44
Speaker
is actually to a disservice to the notion of people who go around doing excellent cherry picking of stories. It's not so much cherry picking of evidence. It's a hodgepodge of things I've read online that confirm my biases. It's just a lot of data unsorted, which to the author's mind presents a narrative.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, you said about the Christchurch one, a lot of it assumed you sort of read 4chan and therefore actually understood what appeared to be otherwise sort of random non-sequiturs and so on. I assumed this one also assumed, it's written in such a way that it assumes you already know what he's talking about.
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, although there's a kind of weirdness to this. So the Christchurch terrorist we know was interacting with people online in communications.
Shooter's Background and Beliefs
00:36:41
Speaker
And there seems to be less evidence of the Buffalo shooter actually engaging with other people. So one of the things which has come out.
00:36:50
Speaker
post the massacre is that he had a Discord server where he was openly musing about committing a terrorist act on that server. But as far as we know, he was talking to himself on that server. There don't appear to be other users on it. So the Christchurch terrorist, he appeared to have had interactions with people, particularly on boards like 4chan and the like.
00:37:14
Speaker
And so the way that he integrated memes and things like that into his manifesto seems very much evidence of this is how I talk online. Well the Buffalo shooter seems to be much more isolated from communication with people on these platforms and thus knows you're meant to put these memes in.
00:37:36
Speaker
but they're put in in a way of its form, but there's not any particular function to them. They're not playing a particularly strong role in the kind of narrative he wants to bring forward. And I realize I'm engaging in folk psychology here, but it just seems to be that there's a difference in the kind of character behind the writers of these texts.
00:38:01
Speaker
And that comes across in the really focused way that most of the text is a complaint about the guns and armor he chose. We'll get to that in just a minute. Let's actually talk about his background. He paints himself very much as an ordinary person who, during lockdowns in the pandemic, learned that his race, the, in quotes, white race, was being replaced.
00:38:30
Speaker
and he's very much the product of doing his own research by reading threads on 4chan. Well, there's a worrisome claim right off the top of the, off the top of the bed. Yeah, there's a very interesting work by Neil Levy, which is actually a chapter in his book, Bad Beliefs, about how doing your own research actually really can send you in very bad directions, given the socially
00:38:59
Speaker
The idea that individuals can get to grips with complex claims really doesn't make any sense unless part of getting to grips with complex claims is being situated in a society and understanding how the levers of the information economy actually works.
00:39:17
Speaker
And so the idea that someone on his own during a lockdown was reading threads on 4Chat and came to this realization by doing his own research does seem to be some evidence of Levi's hypothesis here. That kind of individualized epistemology really probably isn't a very good idea.
00:39:40
Speaker
And of course, this leads into the brief discussion we had earlier about the claims he's a lone wolf. So he on his own came to this conclusion that his race is being replaced. And it was that realization that inspired him to commit this atrocity. So it's a lone wolf actor influenced by information online, but not part of a community.
00:40:05
Speaker
And of course, that's a complicated claim to unpack there because the idea that there are these communities out there promoting these views and
00:40:16
Speaker
and inculcating people into them, means we're not really talking about lone wolves, even if he wants to make the claim he wasn't involved in a conspiracy, a concerted conspiracy of people plussing together for this massacre. The influence on his views is something which still does need to be talked about.
00:40:40
Speaker
and yet many people want to put it to one side because they knew it would have a very awkward discussion of what is going on in these communities. So what else does he say about himself then? So he's not a Christian, he claims to be a non-believer, but he is pro-Christian values as they are the basis for white culture. Hmm, interesting to hear where he thinks white culture comes from, but I think we'll get to that.
00:41:05
Speaker
He's also clearly an anti-Semite and clearly a transphobe. He seems to be OK with other queer identities as long as they don't get in his face. But he's very specific on saying that trans people are mentally ill. That's I don't know what to say about that. It seems to be tangential, I guess, to the white supremacist stuff. And yet I'm not surprised to hear it there.
00:41:33
Speaker
No, no. Now, one thing which I wasn't aware of, he claims, because he spent a large section of the text, having just committed to massacring as many African Americans as possible, he spent a large section of the text talking about how evil the Jewish race is. And one thing which I wasn't aware of, and I don't know whether you're aware of this, Josh, but apparently the Jewish people are the descendants of eight of Homo sapiens Neanderthalis.
Contradictions in the Shooter's Identity Views
00:42:02
Speaker
Ah, I can never say. Nien de talent. No, that's a new one on me, actually. I did, I saw it, I think it was somebody had reproduced one of the graphs from his manifesto or something, which seemed to be showing something about Jewish
00:42:18
Speaker
genetics and suggesting that they have different genetics from other European people or something but yeah actually descended from neanderthals that's uh that's an interest although yeah don't we think like a good a good 10 or more percent of the population is has neanderthal DNA and let me know in
00:42:37
Speaker
Well, all of us have seen the intel DNA. I figured how it works. We believe that. I'm not quite sure that he does. Well, now there's a big discussion in the text about how identity is both ethnic and cultural. So you're only white. If you are ethnically white, you come from a white nation and you are culturally white. You act in a white way. So you can't be black British.
00:43:03
Speaker
and culturally white. Even if your family has been in the UK for 400 years, your non-white ethnicity means you can never be white. In the same respect, a white person born in a white country who gives up on white culture stops being white. So he has this very clear idea that white culture requires an ethnic basis and a cultural basis, and the two must be present at all times.
00:43:31
Speaker
Which is interesting, I mean in part for the fact that it's a really weird racist view, it's also interesting because he then talks about how anyone who acts Jewish turns out to be a Jew.
00:43:45
Speaker
So Jeff Bezos is neither ethnically Jewish nor culturally Jewish under his view, but he acts in a Jewish way and therefore is a Jew. So it turns out that you don't have to be ethnically, you can be ethnically white, and I would say culturally white, because Jeff Bezos is as culturally white as you can possibly get as a capitalist,
00:44:11
Speaker
But if you don't like them under the terrorist view, then you can simply label them as the Jew. I'm not in any way surprised at how illogical and inconsistent that is, but that is quite illogical and inconsistent. There was the big discussion a few years ago wasn't there about cultural Christianity in Britain? Richard Dawkins is a big fan of being culturally Christian, even though he's not a believer.
00:44:36
Speaker
Yeah, they're talking in the sense of saying they put their religion down as Christian, despite the fact that they're not in any way religious, but because they believe they are culturally Christian. We've said this before, I can't remember how recently it's been, but in a way, some of these white supremacists are kind of proving themselves right about the diminishing white race, but the white race is becoming smaller and smaller simply because they're becoming pickier and pickier about who counts as a white person. But
00:45:03
Speaker
So, okay, where are we? He doesn't like Jewish people, he doesn't like trans people, but he is... He does have a solution, though, to the Jewish problem. Other people have had solutions to the Jewish problem, and that didn't work out very well. What was his? So he thinks that we have to wipe out the super fertile coloured people first, because they're the direct threat, because they're the ones who are going to out
00:45:29
Speaker
breeders. So this is kind of both an immigration and fertility route to his great replacement hypothesis. But he feels that the people who are funding these super breeders are the Jewish people. So he thinks the best way to defeat the Jewish people long term is to deny them access to economic power. And this is a very interesting solution, because if you know anything about history,
00:45:59
Speaker
One of the root causes for systemic antisemitism amongst Europeans is the idea that because good Christians were not meant to engage in money lending, so usury, which I can never say properly, usury? Usury. Usury. Usury. Usury.
00:46:21
Speaker
Usury, I can't pronounce it properly unless I'm drunk. Usury was something that good Christians were not meant to engage in. And so it fell upon the non-Christian part to the population to engage in that dirty business of money lending.
00:46:38
Speaker
which then turned out that actually being involved in money lending, banking, and the like is actually a very effective way to gain economic power in a society as we see with the 1% now. It turns out that holding wealth
00:46:53
Speaker
and controlling wealth and apportioning wealth is actually a very good way to remain wealthy so it was the act of the european god i sound like i'm engaging in political dialectics it was the act of the european which caused the problem to emerge it was
00:47:11
Speaker
The Jewish problem, and I'm putting that in scare quotes again, even though I know that no one can see my hands, was a creation of European decisions. And then regretting those decisions, oh, actually, the Jews must have planned this in the first place. It was part of their dastardly plan, as opposed to recognizing, no, we made some big mistakes along the way. We're not willing to take responsibility. And yet it seems that the Buffalo shooter
00:47:38
Speaker
wants to do exactly the same thing and it just speaks to how ahistorical this manifesto is. This person knows nothing about history and what brought us to our current societal moment here, which means he keeps on reinventing the causes of the issues that he claims he's trying to fix.
00:48:01
Speaker
I mean, and I could say this in response to basically any claim made in this manifesto. What a dick. Yeah. Yeah. He also hates the idea of virtual relationships, particularly pornography, which is kind of unusual since he got radicalized online on 4chan.
Shooter's Intentions and Misconceptions
00:48:21
Speaker
So apparently virtual relationships are bad. I mean, virtual personal
00:48:26
Speaker
romantic relationships, or only just porn and the like. But in this case, you don't like online stuff when it's sexual in nature, but when it's dismally political, apparently that's fine.
00:48:39
Speaker
Okay, now the gun control business. So, as we said before, he himself thought that this was going to trigger gun control, which you would normally think a person on the political right would be against, but much like your other accelerator, much like old bloody, who's crazy swastika face, Charles Manson.
00:49:04
Speaker
thought that this is an accelerationist thing, and it's actually going to provoke war. It's going to provoke a war. So by forcing the Democrats to do this thing that he knows his side is going to hate, he thinks he's working towards some sort of a race war. So he thought the time scale of it would be such that it could be all done and dusted by the time he gets out of prison.
00:49:27
Speaker
Well, he's expecting that he'll be in prison, the race war will occur, and then he'll be released early. So he'll be disappointed if he spends the entire time in prison and he comes out and nothing has changed. So yes, he's an accelerationist. He thinks this is going to bring about the coming race war and also gun law reform in the US.
00:49:49
Speaker
It is kind of unusual when people think that these mass shootings are going to bring about gun law reform in the US, because we've been talking about that a
Podcast Anniversary Reflection
00:49:57
Speaker
lot. This show has been going for seven years now. And every single time a mass shooting occurs, people say this is it.
00:50:06
Speaker
You said this podcast has been going for seven years. As of tomorrow, that's eight years. How old are we? Far too old. Far, far too... I mean, it's almost a decade of this podcast. And what, do we have 300 listeners? I mean...
00:50:24
Speaker
Looking good. We have 300 listeners on Podbean. I actually don't know what that means for the syndicated stuff, but Podbean-wise, 300 listeners after eight years. Well done us. Well done us. We deserve cake. I think so. We used to have 800 listeners on Podbean many years ago. So, you know.
00:50:46
Speaker
Yeah. Good times. Good times. So there are other things. So he's, as I say, it's a very ahistorical text. He thinks that immigration and integration is something relatively new, and thus a horrible thing. So he thinks that
00:51:02
Speaker
Our ancestors fought for segregation and living life separately. And all I can say to that is he would be horrified at the Roman Empire. He would find the Roman Empire to be horrific. Because the Romans not only kept on bringing more people in, they also kept on bringing people into the city of Rome. They were all about just accumulating as much mass as possible.
00:51:30
Speaker
So, yeah. It has always been one of the contradictions of white supremacy, hasn't it? The idea that modern day, or at least relatively recently, Italians and Greeks sort of swore the olive-skinned non-whites, and yet ancient Italians and ancient Greeks form the very underpinning of white civilization.
00:51:50
Speaker
Yeah, and it just doesn't... I mean, yes, there have been enclaves of racial segregation in Europe over the last 2,000 years, but there's also been an awful lot of people just getting along and living in the same space. As people like to point out, the very concept of race is a relatively new invention in human society. It doesn't get talked about until
00:52:14
Speaker
two or 300 years ago, the idea of race as a dividing factor between me and you is something which is relatively new. And sure, there were probably inklings of that idea earlier in history, but the kind of racism that we're tackling now is something which is very, very different.
00:52:34
Speaker
Now, of course, that gets us to the doubt he has to do about the fact that as a white person, he lives in a colonized space because he's not living in Italy where his ancestors came from. He's living in America.
00:52:50
Speaker
and he takes it that yes it's true America was colonized by white people but apparently they've lived long enough in the US now that it qualifies as a white space and to that I have to say given the slave trade and the history of slavery surely that also applies to the African Americans too because they've been living there as long as the white people have and yet somehow
00:53:19
Speaker
It's a white nation and not a white and African American nation. And that's just leading to one side the absurdity of claiming that living there for a few hundred years compared to the indigenous people living there for thousands of, in our Aotearoa case, tens to hundreds of thousands of years in the American case.
00:53:40
Speaker
living there for a short amount of time gives you the right to say, oh no, no, it's our house now. Yes, I mean, again, illogical, ahistorical, no massive surprise there. So you said before, so again, this was sort of something that was leading to, he goes on and on and on about the Jewish people
00:54:02
Speaker
and religion and so on. And yet, those weren't the people he targeted. He targeted African Americans. But as you say, so like I said before that that centuries old eugenics stereotype of the black people are the ones who are constantly at it like rabbits.
00:54:19
Speaker
is kind of behind his idea that he's got to go after them first, because they're the ones who are actually breeding out of control, even though the Jews are the masterminds behind it all. Yes, so the Jewish people are the puppet masters, or when I wrote up the original notes for this episode, the puppet masters, because it turns out one typo brings you a completely new conspiracy theory.
00:54:41
Speaker
But he feels that we can't deal with the systemic puppet master issue until we get rid of the outbreeding issue of these armed immigrants and the problems they're giving to American society, which is why he's targeting African Americans here. Well, he actually spends most of the text talking about the evil of the Jewish race. So anything else to say? Is that where it ends or is there any more to it?
00:55:09
Speaker
So there's one thing we should talk about and that's the fact he's really quite keen on killing children.
Justification of Violence and Misinterpretations
00:55:15
Speaker
He's keen on killing children or keen on justifying killing children?
00:55:18
Speaker
I have a feeling it's a little bit of both. So he does talk about the fact that he would be willing to kill children as part of his crusade. And I'm using that term quite specifically here, even though he's non-Christian himself, he's got a pro-crusade Christian value going on on here. And it's claimed as a look, you might think it's disgusting killing children because children are innocents.
00:55:45
Speaker
but his argument is look children grew up to be adults so children grew up to be criminals long term and any invader is a criminal so a child is a potential adult as a potential adult they are an invader immigrant of the country and so it's just much better to wipe them out now
00:56:09
Speaker
Now, what makes this interesting to my mind is the fact that when he's talking about the, in quotes, evil of the Jew, he spends a little bit of time citing non Torah
00:56:26
Speaker
works in the Jewish religious canon or the Jewish judicial canon or actually I suppose a really more juridical canon is a better way to discuss this. Talking about how there are in isolation a whole bunch of quotes which look pretty bad for Judaism so the idea that you know you can kill the you can kill
00:56:51
Speaker
Goyem you can you can engage in stealing from the gentile etc etc and look this shows that Judaism is at its heart an evil religion because these are the kind of dictates
00:57:05
Speaker
that Jewish people have been told about and they will claim that these instructions or guidelines no longer apply now, but we know at heart this shows you that Judaism is evil. And once again, because he knows nothing about history, he doesn't understand the context of these commandments, claims, guidelines, strictures,
00:57:30
Speaker
and the like, because most of the texts he's referring to are texts that were written when the Jewish people were being oppressed by other particular people. And so these were basically guidelines for this is how our culture survives.
00:57:50
Speaker
And so these are instructions of in a time of oppression where we are being oppressed by a dominant majority, here are some things which you are allowed to do in that circumstance. And so his imagined oppression is leading him to a discussion as to why it's okay for him to kill kids.
00:58:12
Speaker
And then he's going, oh, look, here are people who are actually oppressed, who argued, and I'm using similar here once again in that scare quote way, because there's also an issue here about translation. You cannot trust the translations he's relying upon. But even if we take those translations at face value, the context under which they were issued and had subsequently been retracted was one of being actually oppressed by dominant majorities that were trying to control or eliminate the Jewish people.
00:58:42
Speaker
that time and so it just seems weird that he's gone to all this length to justify the atrocities he's going to commit and he's going this doesn't make me bad because I'm fighting for the rights of my diminishing race and yet he takes it that people in a similar situation who actually were being oppressed and dominated at that time and
00:59:05
Speaker
that makes their entire ethos easier. Once again, biological and inconsistent Kel Supris. And not just a bit of a dick. I think we could actually use the C word there. A complete dick? Yes, yes. A complete dick. Or an utter Immanuel Kant. Indeed.
00:59:26
Speaker
So I see one last note, there's a little bit of eco-fascism just for a bit of flavour.
Eco-fascist Ideas and Hidden Messages
00:59:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's the bit at the end where he goes, well, you know, I used to be a communist when I was younger, and now I'm more of a libertarian, and I think the environment is important. It feels slightly tacked on, as if, well, this was in the Christchurch terrorist manifesto, the eco-fascism thing, and I largely agree with that, so I'm just going to put that bit at the end.
00:59:52
Speaker
But it doesn't seem particularly central. I mean, most of the discussion is, this is why Jewish people are bad and why I should kill some children. Lovely. I think that's all I care to hear about this manifesto, but just to lighten the mood slightly before we go out.
01:00:08
Speaker
So there have been some conspiracy theories about the manifesto itself, I understand some quite, quite Da Vinci code sort of conspiracy theories, quite dare I say it, more of a mega code conspiracy theories. It's very much the Bible code, but without any Michael York. So someone thinks or at least some set of people think that the manifesto contains coded messages along with the non coded outright antisemitism.
01:00:38
Speaker
So let me just read a section of this analysis as we close today's discussion.
01:00:46
Speaker
So the claimed name of the person is itself an anagram for pentagron dronie, which that's dronie with a Y at the end rather than an A, which seems to mean pentagon drone, i.e. Manchurian candidate, sheep-dipped control subject, which I can only say, if only we hadn't slipped up and used a Y when we could have used an A, we could have made it really explicit that his name actually stands for pentagron drone.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yes, so the evil global overlord, false flag artists, first of all feel compelled to put a coded admission of guilt into the, in the form of this person's name, but then also can't spell so they don't get the right, yeah.
01:01:34
Speaker
I'd really like to know how these people think that these evil elites think, because someone there is getting things quite twisted.
01:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, then let me continue with the high-caliber analysis we should expect from the person who discovered someone's name is Pentagon Drew Oney. To begin, I converted the line to the text blocks, eliminating special characters, spaces, et cetera. If you take this text and reorder the letters along the y-axis from top to bottom, you get letter sequences. For example, taking the first letter of each line gives you M-A-S-E-G-E-B-E-W-R.
01:02:15
Speaker
And if you take the second letter of each line, you get Y-S-O-T-M-U-N-A-E. If you put these two together, you get M-A-S-E-G-E-B-E-W-R Y-S-O-T-M-U-N-A-E.
01:02:31
Speaker
These letters can be fed into an anagram wordfinder algorithm to pick out phrases that use the same letters. When you do this, you get the phrase bruiser agreement from those letters with a few extra letters to scout. We'll get into what the bruiser agreement is or isn't in a moment. So this guy is saying, so if you take some of the letters in this document and rearrange them and throw some of them away, it can say something else.
01:02:59
Speaker
a claim that could be made of any document to say, any document that contains every letter in the English language could therefore be used to prove anything. Especially if you're allowed to remove letters from an algorithm. If you're allowed to remove letters from an algorithm, fun kinder, then yes, you're going to get
01:03:19
Speaker
anything you like out of it. I mean, you put a long enough string in and the works of Shakespeare are eventually going to appear. So what is the Bruce Agreement? Is it an actual thing? So the Bruce Agreement is an actual thing. I didn't actually write any notes on exactly what it is, but it doesn't matter because
01:03:36
Speaker
Even if it's a real thing, the process to finding the word bruiser agreement in a document, the way they're doing it, is meaningless. It is absolutely meaningless. In this case, take some letters, put them in an arbitrary grid, then read letters along the X and the Y axis, put those into an algorithm finder, remove some letters so you get results, and suddenly you get words. So that's... That is completely meaningless.
01:04:04
Speaker
I mean, it does a disservice to the pejorative of conspiracy theory, if this is the kind of analysis that you're going to use on a manifesto to show that actually the writer is a Manchurian candidate.
01:04:20
Speaker
It reminds me, did you ever see Under the Silver Lake? No, I did not. Andrew Garfield. Interesting divisive. I don't know. Some people say some reviews were like it's absolute brilliance in other films, like it's just idiotic garbage. I tended towards the idiotic garbage side of things, but it's all about secret messages and secret conspiracies and Andrew Garfield's character
01:04:41
Speaker
spends the entire film doing that sort of thing but being right every time? Like, okay, here's the lyrics of the song. If I...
01:04:51
Speaker
even remember what he does. He like, it's more than just like taking the, it's not like taking the first letter of each word, it's like taking each word, the gaps between words and I can and make it turns into more, it's really convoluted stuff with no, no, no, no, no sort of justification for doing it. It's just he's decided that that's how he's going to try and rearrange these things. And yet in the film, every time he does that, he's exactly right. And it does indeed come up with a hidden message
01:05:21
Speaker
that tells him exactly where to go next. So maybe this person's read a lot. We're a big fan of Under the Silver Lake. Maybe it's the scriptwriter. Maybe it is. Ooh. But yeah, only we had an anagram finder to put Andrew Garfield's name in to see what that really means.
01:05:42
Speaker
Yes, no, I think if you're going to go to this level of just convoluted nonsense and you don't involve Michael York introducing a technology that gets rid of all nuclear weapons, you're wasting your time. Speaking of wasting your time, we've probably done enough of that.
01:06:00
Speaker
We have, indeed. It's been a bumper episode. It's been a bumper episode, lots to get through. So I think we better call things to a close. But of course, we will then go and record a bonus episode for our patrons. We're going to do a combination, I think, of a bit more discussion of this and a bit more another checking in on the usual suspects thing to see exactly what the likes of your Alec Jones's and your David Eichs have been saying about this shooting, because not much. Yeah, yeah.
01:06:30
Speaker
We'll go and double check. So if you'd like to hear that, sign up and become a patron by going to Betrayal.com and searching for the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. And if you've already done that, well then you're sorted. You're all set. You just go, it'll show up somehow, however you get your podcasts.
01:06:47
Speaker
And if you don't want to sign up and become a patron, well, you've already sat through a good sort of two hours, 45 of us, it might be a little bit less once he met it, it's down, of us rabbiting on about this thing, so bless you, all the same, quite frankly. And I don't think, I don't think that there's anything else for me to say except in the long-standing tradition, goodbye. Durango.
01:07:15
Speaker
The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy is Josh Addison and me, Dr. M.R. Extenteth. You can contact us at podcastconspiracyatgmail.com, and please do consider supporting the podcast via our Patreon. And remember, they're coming to get you, Barbara.