Transcript
Speaker: Good insert time of day. And hello to those of you who are listening to the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy, which is you, because you are listening to the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy even as you think.
Speaker: If you are not listening and you are hearing my voice, you are suffering from some kind of serious delusion. But it's okay, you can cure that delusion by becoming a subscriber to the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy and thus actually experience this introduction as it is really occurring in the real world as opposed to what's going on in your mental space. Now, put that to one side because most of you are actually listening to it rather than hallucinating listening to the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy.
Speaker: This is all just a very elaborate intro to say that this week's episode is one from the can. Now, we should be wary of taking things out of the can because when things are in the can,
Speaker: then the monsters that the can covers are not allowed egress into this world. Or is it ingress? Oh anyway, they're not allowed to come and go as they please.
Speaker: When we take things out of the can, it makes it more likely that things that beneath the can leave the can, but go outside of the can, and then they do the can-can and it all goes very badly.
Speaker: So we've taken something out of the can as a kind of an emergency measure because Josh is unavailable this week and is going to be unavailable next week and I'm going to be on ah unavailable the week after that so if we wait another three weeks to put out an episode then those poor fools who still subscribe to the podcast's guide to the conspiracy which is probably you although you might be a first-time listener and therefore not a subscriber but probably you are you poor fools will not have anything for quite some time
Speaker: Which is a very long intro to say. The episode you are about to listen to was recorded back in January of this year when Josh and I managed to be in the same space at the same time.
Speaker: Now, if you are a patron of this podcast... then you probably have seen the video version of this episode and there will be no additional content whatsoever unless I decide to tag something in either towards the end or if I was sneaky in the middle of the episode.
Speaker: As you can't see what I'm doing here, but I'm actually doing hand movement as I speak. It'll look great on video, but unfortunately this is a purely audible medium, even though the episode you're about to listen to is in fact actually based upon a video recording.
Speaker: It gets very confusing at this point in time and frankly i would understand if you've given up trying to understand what's going on. I certainly have. Anyway, this is as much of an introduction as is possibly needed.
Speaker: So now let us go back in time all the way to January and listen to what the earlier versions of Josh and Em were talking about before the current, current crisis.
Speaker: The Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy, brought to you today by Josh Edison and Dentis.
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Podcaster's Guide to the Conspiracy. It is January 2025 and I, Josh Addison, and they, Dr. M.R. Extentiff, are in the same place at the same time.
Speaker: Talking about some stuff. Indeed we are. Indeed we are. So we just recorded an episode looking at this fascinating copy of the National Enquirer. I'm holding it up for the people who are watching the video because patrons, patrons, patrons, they got to see this episode early.
Speaker: You're listening to it late because you're not amongst the greatest and best people in the world. But this gets thrown away. Yep. That worked out fine. And instead we're going to look at this, my North Head file box.
Speaker: Right, now a little bit of history. Those of you who are long-time listeners will know that the conspiracy theories around North Head in Auckland are what got you into conspiracy theories in the first place and basically is responsible for your entire economy. And we are recording in a suburb of Devonport, so North Head Monowega. you see North Head out the window? we can. We can, I can see North Head out the window from this very room in which we sit.
Speaker: So North Head or Monoeka is a hilltop in Devonport on the North Shore Auckland. It has numerous conspiracy theories around hidden tunnels, missing planes and missing and ammunition.
Speaker: you want to know more about that, there are... There are a number of episodes looking at the North Head phenomena in this podcast. It was very seminal moment for me. have to say seminal without thinking about really bad things.
Speaker: It was an important moment. moment in my life discovering the North Head conspiracy theories in part because I had this kind of interesting phenomena where my father did not believe there were hidden tunnels in North Head.
Speaker: My father's best friend and they both grew up in Devonport believed there were tunnels in North Head and they both claimed that the other was wrong about their childhood myth. make memories.
Speaker: My father's best friend said, oh, we've been in those tunnels. You were with me. And my father said, no, no, we did not. So I kind of grew up in a household where it was being talked about, but there was a high level of skepticism.
Speaker: And so when I was thinking about doing a PhD, The North Head case study was very much on my mind, so I started collecting documentation, even though, fun fact, North Head does not appear in my thesis in any way, shape, or form.
Speaker: I know. Indeed. Have you ever included it in any of your... published works? I don't think so. Maybe you should. it is It is a bit obscure. I've got oddly obscure conspiracy theories up the wazoo.
Speaker: But yes, because I'm in the process of working out what stuff I'm shipping to China and what stuff that I'm leaving behind in Auckland and what stuff I'm just getting rid of. Such as an odd copy of the National Enquirer.
Speaker: Precisely. I was going through my files because when I went to China three and a half years ago took some of my personal documents with me but left others behind and as I was going through the files I discovered this.
Speaker: Now how do you describe it Josh? It's like a binder. not It's not really a binder. I don't know. It's a file. It's a file. Yeah, um is it's a box. It's a box. And then inside this box, and it says on the side... North Head on the side. North Head. The elastication has basically given out. It's not actually doing a particularly good job of keeping things together.
Speaker: But this is where I've kept all of my North Head files and memorabilia, not paraphernalia. Stuff. i do And we're going to see what's in there.
Speaker: And I haven haven't opened this up in years. So is has this collection been going ever since you were and university? A university student or postgraduate? So basically from my late MA onwards, right essentially.
Speaker: And yes, i'm I'm not quite... I know I did some rationalization of these files many, many years ago. I just don't know what's going to be in there. but i know ah I know what two things are in there because Josh, I praise the weight.
Speaker: That's heavier than I was expecting. Yeah, and the reason is because one thing I do know is in there are two books, which are... Here we go. Oh.
Speaker: lot We'll start with the first Heavily annotated. There we go. So that's the first one. Is that the same book? It is, but this one has. Oh, it' ahs okay. So we have Tunnel Vision by Martin Butler, Unearthing the Secrets of North Head, and Tunnel Vision Refocused.
Speaker: And exp Explosive Update. Explosive Update, both of which swimming with post-it notes and various and various annotations. Yeah, this is one of these things where...
Speaker: i Even if I had an electronic copy of this book, going through and adding my annotations in would be an absolute pain. And for those who are looking at the video, yes, there's a lot of annotations.
Speaker: There sure is. just Just quickly, the um the blurb on the back of this book. On October, sorry, on 12 October 1918, the New Zealand Flying School took possession of the first two Boeing aircraft ever made.
Speaker: Almost a century later, aviation enthusiast Martin Butler goes in search of any remnants of these famous planes. His journey takes them to North Head, Devonport's famous military landmark, which has long been the subject of rumours and urban myths about sealed-up tunnels and hidden rooms.
Speaker: Could the planes be buried in one of these forgotten tunnels? After research and investigation spanning 20 years, Butler uncovers a trail of deception, confusion and cover-ups as he attempts to unravel the mystery of what lies beneath the surface of North Head.
Speaker: Interesting. It's almost the same blurb, but he's got rid of aviation enthusiast. He's no longer, what does he call himself? He's just Martin Butler. Just Martin, oh, okay. dar i die there I don't know why you would get rid of that So this is not This episode is not going to be a book review of this book Although maybe that's something we could do in the future Well actually, what is she?
Speaker: I mean, leaving you these ah one of one of these books to look through Might be a project It could be, yeah I don't want to skip to the end I am skipping to the end Because I, as as you can see from these and annotations, I've but read this book. Yeah, you've been through these ones with a fairly fairly fine-toothed comb.
Speaker: What's the... that's That's just some ad that you've been using as a bookmark. Something you've got in the post. you A little bit of history. A little bit of history.
Speaker: So, okay, right. That's that that's that's all the weight for this, but I see we have a bunch of spiral-bound... So we have a copy of Jeff Chappell's North Head, the Enigma, which is an official Department of Conservation publication about the story of the investigation of North Head to look for the Boeing planes.
Speaker: So is Geoff Chappell the guy who's done the tours? I've i've been on one of your, like, No, no, that is that is Chief Archaeologist.
Speaker: Oh, God, I've suddenly forgotten his name, and it's going to be very embarrassing. Dave Vert. david's David Vert. Dave Vert. Yeah. No, Geoff Chappell's, think, an amateur historian.
Speaker: Right. So this is a 13 page pamphlet that just gives a little summary of of um investigations and what had been done. but it's just a little summary of the whole thing. and But yes, it's official Department of Conservation document.
Speaker: Okay, so that's the little one. I see two, or do I see spiral-bound, decent-sized documents. So let's start with the first.
Speaker: Right, we have northad investigation report sorry North Investigation 1992 Interim Research Report by J.L. Treadwell, again, Department of Conservation.
Speaker: So this appears to be a full copy of this report into... Let's see, preface, this report is the first stage in the ongoing efforts by the Department of Conservation to investigate the and old fort at North Head on Auckland's North Shore.
Speaker: Over the years, there have been suggestions that the tunnels and underground structures visible today do not constitute all that has existed at the fort. A number of people have claimed that they remember are the tunnels that are no longer visible. It has been claimed that these hidden tunnels may contain old ammunition.
Speaker: It is for reasons of public safety that this investigation is being carried out. And so on and so forth. So this is... um So this this report, before any physical examination of the fort has started, a full search of all the documentary records available was carried out. This report records this work, right? So this is not this is this is a survey of all the documentation about North Head that exists.
Speaker: And there's quite a lot of it. We have chronology of construction and events on North Head, 1885 to have sorts of sort of Navy files fine have all sorts of sort of navy files of records of construction and stuff. We have very detailed table of construction events starting 1885 going for many many many pages to 1975.
Speaker: ninety forty one nineteen fifty fifty seven all the way up to nineteen seventy five So just a ton of just just just details of everything that happened there.
Speaker: Oh no, sorry, and one last one, 1979, when they put it in a car park. Look at that. We have topographical maps, we have photographs of the area.
Speaker: So yeah, i mean this is basically just a... yeah Good old document survey. Now thing which is interesting about this is that one of these documents I have the actual official Department of Conservation printing.
Speaker: These two I was only ever able to borrow and thus those are photocopies.
Speaker: So this is this is your interim research report. so yeah so this is followup So what we now have are two documents by Dave Wirt. There is Dave Wirt's thesis, essentially, which is looking at the history of the development of North Head as a fort.
Speaker: And then there is the investigation report he produced after his and archaeological investigation into North Head. Right, so this one, this this north head, the development of a fort, is not specifically about investigations and looking searches for hidden tunnels or anything. It's just the history of the fort. It's part of the investigation in that in order to do the archaeological investigation, Dave Virt produces a history of the development of the fort to understand
Speaker: how it was built, why it was built, the mechanisms under which it was built, thus leading to the question of, you know, if there are things missing in the historical record, where do we start looking? And if there are anomalies in the reporting of how the fort was built, how do we then generate, how do we then locate those things?
Speaker: yeah my to fold bit photooping that I to out how fold it in myself. So, I mean, this is a very detailed report that just has lots and lots and lots of information about how it was made. And I see survey maps, descriptions of all the different structures.
Speaker: Before all of that, we start with history of...
Speaker: Geological background, volcano fields, pre-history of occupation, pre-European settlement, post-contact period, 1820 to 1885, European fortification. So but it's basically everything you want to know about the history of North Head, I would say.
Speaker: But um that then both of these, I guess, then form the background for what I assume is the... The North Head Tunnels Investigation Report. So this is the actual... Let's see. we This is December 1998.
Speaker: Abstract. Oh, it has an abstract. Since at least the nineteen fifty s stories have been told that the fort at North Head contains a complex of hidden tunnels. According to some of these stories, the tunnels may have contained either the first aircraft built by aviation giant Boeing or unexploded ammunition.
Speaker: During 1991 to 92, there was a flurry of public immediate interest in these stories, with a particular focus on the possibility that unexploded ammunition was present. In early 1992, the local residents' association approached the ministers of conservation and defence as well as the prime minister for some assurances that these stories were not true.
Speaker: North Head is an historic reserve administered by the Department of Conservation, and it was to this department that the government turned to determine the truth or otherwise of these stories. The result was a two-year investigation divided into a number of stages. These involved research, witness interviews, remote sensing, and archaeological excavation.
Speaker: The outcome of the project was that there was no evidence of any hidden tunnels or ammunition ons the reserve at North Head. Which, of course, these books... These books would dispute. They would contend that that is wrong. So this when when was this first one published?
Speaker: Oh, so it's... This report was released in 1998, and the book was 2012. Oh, okay, so it's well, well after. Yeah, and the second edition is 2014. Okay.
Speaker: So what have we got? We've got, looking at the table of contents here, initial investigations, excavations, but our stage one excavation, stage two excavations, discussion, excavations, witness so witnesses and archival evidence. this This is what interests me, I think.
Speaker: This is all just excavations. Right, so witnesses, page 58. What do we say about witnesses? The origins of the stories of North Head is not in documents or files, but in people's memories. Of the large number of people interviewed about the memories of North Head, very few appeared to be making things up.
Speaker: Most were trying to recollect structures in underground spaces seen up to 50 years previously. My appreciation of this process was clarified when I accompanied a group of men who had helped build and fit out ah the large 9.2-inch gun emplacements at Stoney Batta on Waiheke Island.
Speaker: Most of these people had last seen these structures in the 1940s. These were men who had not just visited the place, but who were actively involved in its construction. Most of them were totally lost when first confronted with the site and later took some time to orientate themselves when inside the tunnels.
Speaker: I realized that the things that they had originally used to orientate themselves were no longer there. They remembered, for example, engine rooms with engines, not dark empty spaces. Also, the outside area had changed. Trees had grown up and buildings had been demolished. In the end, however, they reconciled their memories of what they could see today.
Speaker: At no time do I recollect them claiming that the tunnels had changed. They assumed, rightly, that their memories were at fault. This assumption is generally not made at North Head, where there is another history for people to fit their memories into. If things are not as remembered, then reality and memory do not have to be reconciled, but can instantly be claimed that the structures have been altered or hidden.
Speaker: Josh, I've got breaking, breaking news. Is there a new one? There's a third edition of Tunnel Vision. It's still called Tunnel Vision Refocused. Yep, third edition, Unearthing the Secrets of North Head. So it is still very much the same cover.
Speaker: There's nothing here that tells us anything about there being any updates here. But the other big news... There's a nonfiction book called Mystery Under Monoica, which is Is it by Martin Butler? No, it's by a Devonport law local called Andrew, who is publishing under the name AJW, which is interesting.
Speaker: And it's a young adult story about people finding tunnels under North Head and a sinister force trying to make sure they don't reveal the secrets. Oh, maybe that would be better for a book review. Well, Bob, I'm wondering, do I get the third edition of Tunnel Vision, and I get you to read one of the earlier editions, and then i can tell you about what's different and what is not?
Speaker: Well, I mean, we could do, yes. I worry that there won't be a hell of a lot new, but... Why not? Yeah, so this is this is very, very interesting.
Speaker: I say in way which is worrying. see oh what what So what was new in the second one? What was new, do you recall? Because I'm just looking at the table of contents. It's been over 10 years since I... I think the difference the end. Looking at the contents, that's the second edition. I think it's the stuff he added in at the end.
Speaker: So that has 12 chapters. This has 15. Yep. The additional... yeah Okay, so... No, it's not quite the same. He's he's he's reorganized things a little bit. But yeah, there's the ground radar stuff. Ground radar survey.
Speaker: Yes, I don't know. So it's obviously, yeah, there's there's a few extra chapters in there. also cannot work out when this new edition was produced. It doesn't actually... So there used to be a tunnel vision website.
Speaker: In fact, it used to be this called. tunnelvision.com he can't he kind of had no uh tunnel vision book website because i used to check in on it from time to time and yes he's obviously lost tunnel vision as a url that elapsed So the only thing now is northhead.co.nz,
Speaker: which has a blog. wonder who's... Last updated August 20th, 2023. Subscribe to North Head News.
Speaker: But yes, I'd love to know when this new edition of the book came out. Because I last spoke to Martin...
Speaker: In, oh, you know when did I last speak to my... It was after I came back from Romania the second time. So sometime in 2019, pre-COVID, I had a long conversation with him on the phone because he was trying to entreat me, to entreat Dave Vert, to return his phone calls.
Speaker: Right. And he hadn't been... No. No. Well, I guess there's not much...
Speaker: David considers the matter closed, doesn't he? He does, yeah. So he'd have no interest. And also he's now retired. He's no longer a working archaeologist in the Tāmaki Makaurau region.
Speaker: He has absolutely no interest in doing any more on this particular thing. Yep. Whilst Martin is adamant there is something there and wants to reopen an investigation.
Speaker: Now the other thing which i was noting, so in the old days when I was rationalising all these things, I used to have a bunch of clippings. And as you'll note... Yeah, that's what I was going to say. i was expecting a bunch of newspaper clippings and possibly ah ah sort of a red string board that you'd collapsed and folded up and put in there or something.
Speaker: that I had digitized those clippings and put them into my Conspiracy Theories of Aotearoa database. And I do have section on North Head which has contemporary images of North Head, a scan of the Daily Southern Cross article, ah pictures of the two Boeing seaplanes, maps, but there are no scans at all of the North Head clippings.
Speaker: And I'm wondering whether I didn't keep them because... At one stage, the library in Takapuna had a clippings file and maybe we'll all all these were were copies of those existing clean things.
Speaker: So now I think I need to go out to Takapuna and make sure that clipping file still exists. Otherwise, I got rid of a resource. Very annoying. But it is interesting to look at what I... Because i haven't actually touched the conspiracy theories of Aotearoa database for quite some time.
Speaker: So we've got the 1422 hypothesis, because there are a bunch of people who are claiming about the great Chinese fleet thing being part of the colonisation of New Zealand, because the...
Speaker: British Admiralty person who believes in the great Chinese fleet thing also believes that all Maori history is fake and Maori are in fact a set of the offspring of Chinese concubines and Malaysians.
Speaker: So was keeping notes on that. Anti-treaty stuff, which seems really marginal back then, but really popular. popular now. Conspiracy theories about the super city.
Speaker: Ben Smart and Olivia Hope, which I didn't even realize i was keeping material on. Celtic New Zealand, chemtrails. Conspiracy theories about the Christchurch earthquakes. Just general conspiracy theories that i were I was picking up along the way.
Speaker: Some stuff on Ian Wishart, some stuff on Jonathan Eisen, who used to run Uncensored Some material on Kerry Bolton, Pike River Mine Disaster Conspiracy There's whole bunch of stuff there which is going, oh, yeah, there's a point in time where I was really keeping keeping my fingers in the local conspiracy pie.
Speaker: Which is a very weird reference. Maybe there's some things in there that we can devote an episode to in the future. Maybe. Maybe there's going to be a more Autoro-centric podcast for 2025. Maybe.
Speaker: maybe not a bad idea I think that's all there is to say about your file then. Again, slightly disappointed. It's it's not crazy enough.
Speaker: No, like, everything's spiral-bound, official-looking, real stuff. I want grimy. No, no, no, no, sorry, but you have to admit... Okay, yeah, I do have to admit, yes, the annotated books.
Speaker: That does look like the actions of the person who has far too much time on their hands. Fistooned with annotated post-it notes, yes. Those have those show a fair bit of obsession. Yeah, it's... Currybone handwriting.
Speaker: so there's... Yes. well one ah One of the post notes is just a big question mark. That's best kind. Righto. Well, as with the episode we just recorded, this will go in the can, come out of the can when we need it to. Yeah. It'll be thrown onto the podcasting scrap heap.
Speaker: Yep. Or taken off the podcasting scrap heap and put in the podcasting... Pot. These metaphors don't work at all. but As you can see, we've been doing this for quite some time.
Speaker: The point is, our patrons will see the video of this episode, which we're recording at the same time, in in January of 2025, which is when we're recording this.
Speaker: ah The rest of you listeners will get it when when we feel like it, quite frankly. And you deserve no better. Precisely, but if you become if you become a a patron, then there's no benefit with respect to this and the other episode. It depends on when we release them.
Speaker: If we've only released one of these... And you become a patron. Then you'll be able to go back and see other episode as a video episode. And maybe in the future, if we do something similar, you'll get advantage there as well. it Who knows? it does It's a weird world in which we live.
Speaker: And as we said in the other video slash recording, we actually also might be responsible for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So... There you go. M's North Head file and the mysteries that it contains. it Frankly, better than um and the Al Capone's safe and old Geraldo Rivera.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. yeah i I watched a video about how disappointing that turned out to be. Yeah, I think we've got to have that. Yeah. yeah We've out. Revolved. Revolved? Riviered. Riviered.
Speaker: Geraldo. Yeah. I don't know what these words mean. No, no, words have lost all meaning. Time to end podcast. Goodbye. Ciao.
Speaker: Well, wasn't that spithing? Spith, spith, spith. That's all I've got to say, really, apart from spith, and spith, and of course, spith.
Speaker: We'll be returning to the airwaves at some point, hopefully in the nearer rather than later future. or even later future I am aware that the scheduling for this podcast has been all over the place this year due to a variety of different factors, including my being quite ill with laryngitis for several weeks in a row.
Speaker: We will eventually come back to some semblance of normalcy, although the world we're living in isn't particularly normal anyway, so frankly, I think we should take what we get at this time.
Speaker: And I don't really know what that means either, but that has largely been the tenor of this week slash fortnight slash tri-weekly episode. Goodbye, goodnight, and as Josh would say, conspiracy you on the oceans.
Speaker: Goodbye!
Speaker: The podcaster's guide to the conspiracy features Josh Addison and Associate Professor M.R. Extenteth. Our producers are a mysterious cabal of conspirators known as Tom, Philip, and another who was so mysterious that they remain anonymous.
Speaker: You can contact us electronically via podcastconspiracy at gmail.com or join our Patreon and get access to our Discord server. Or don't, I'm not your mum.
Speaker: And remember... these...
