Transcript
Speaker: I'm not going to let cancer define me period. And one of the ways I was able to do that is I don't have my chemo treatment in my town. It's ah you know, it's where I lived in Atlanta. It was a two hour flight. When I live out here, it's a lot longer, but I say cancer is in new Haven, Connecticut at Yale.
Speaker: It doesn't come with me. It stays there. And when I leave, i leave it behind. i don't think about it. I've i've got, you know, 50 some pills I take every day, 30 prescriptions.
Speaker: But I mean, that's just, that's a nuisance, but that's all it is. Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast.
Speaker: I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
Speaker: Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
Speaker: Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
Speaker: As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you.
Speaker: Hello, hello. Today i am chatting with Glenn Sturm. he is a 17-year survivor and a four-time bestselling author with 30 years in military service. Today, we will mainly be talking about his book, Cancer Set Me Free and his journey to where he is now. And he is in the process of also, as we're recording this, this of releasing his first novel that is titled The Green Murphy Secession.
Speaker: And he's also released a few photography books as well. So I am excited for you all to get to meet Glenn and for me to get to know you a little more. So welcome, Glenn.
Speaker: Well, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to today. Thank you for sharing your story, not only in your books, but now here also on the podcast So we started chatting before we started recording. You mentioned you live in Jackson, Wyoming, but you traveled quite a bit in your childhood. Something you mentioned probably at the beginning of your book is how many schools you attended. Four high schools. I know that i think I remember that part. And I think over 12 schools. Is that correct? It was 12 schools and four high schools. 12 schools and four high schools in 18 years of school life, no, 14 years technically of school life per se, ah that you moved around. So take us into a little bit of that, of your upbringing and all this journey, because all of your life's, you know, ex how you lived your life and how what you learned through your life in your moving and you being part of the ROTC, all these type of things all applied into how you then
Speaker: applied that into your cancer journey. So please talk about your childhood with us a little bit. Well, the um I was very blessed. I mean, everybody who's born in United States is blessed. I've lived a lot of places around the world.
Speaker: And so that's one of the things I know. But as a kid growing up, it was what it was my normal. And dad would come home and say, we're moving in three weeks.
Speaker: And, you know, that started when I, well, I was born in Iowa City, Iowa, and lived there for three weeks and moved to Fort Benning, Georgia, then Berlin, Germany. And it just kept going from there. But it it was just by normal.
Speaker: Other people have gone to the same school, lived in the same house. That never happened. My parents, we lived in military quarters with military installations until my dad was a colonel.
Speaker: And that was an absolutely wonderful way to grow up. It was the most diverse group of people you'd ever meet. One day we'd have a white person next to us. The next day we'd have a black officer next to us. The next day we'd have somebody from Guam or the Philippines, um American Indian or an Indian Indian background. So was just like a miniature United Nations growing up in.
Speaker: And I think that has suited me well for the rest of my life. um Changing schools, though, was a lot of fun in some respects, especially when I got to high school.
Speaker: Because every time we moved, I could be a different person. Now, I always played my sports, and I loved those things. But the fun part was when I moved to Ohio, I was the first person to ever wear jeans to school at that high school.
Speaker: And I had a driver's license at the age of 15 because i was coming from New Mexico where the driver license age was 15. And under federal statutes, I got to keep my New Mexico driver's license.
Speaker: So I was the youngest kid in school with a driver's license, which made me popular. And so when I was the kid who wore jeans, so when I went to my senior in high school, I was voted best dressed.
Speaker: yeah So you're always able to change who you are in some ways. um and But it taught you how to meet people and get along with people, learn different ways of doing things and not be judgmental.
Speaker: And that's the important part. i I think that as you're saying this, I've always wondered what people that move so often, how they view like stability when they change, you know, schools every time. But as you're speaking this you already have in your knowledge as a child, since you're always moving, that change is the only constant, which a lot of us who grew up and going to the same school, the same house, it's hard to see it because you are in the same space.
Speaker: And so when all of a sudden you are struck with something that changes, it's harder to adapt because you are like thrown out of a loop. But you were constantly in this journey of change throughout your childhood that therefore one other thing that changed, you're like, well, I can take that.
Speaker: would you Well, you know, it was, it was interesting. the um the cancer diagnosis just came out of the clear blue. I was, you know, basically running half of a major law firm and I was going to give a speech and I got a phone call and you have cancer. And then I found out it was an incurable form.
Speaker: And when, once they tell you incurable, you don't hear anything else they say to you. You just don't know what that means. So it turned into a lot of research after that, which I still do every day.
Speaker: I'm researching stuff every day. I was doing it this morning before the call. um And it's just, a what happens is your DNA gets wired differently. um When you move to a new place as you're growing up,
Speaker: you you learn about the place. You have to learn about the place. You have to learn what it's like to be there. And it was, it was, a it was, was it traumatic? No, it wasn't because it was my normal, but was every place different?
Speaker: And the answer is yes. And when you anticipate that, when you're able to anticipate the differences, it prepares you better. So when when I got diagnosed with cancer, the first thing I did was started reading and reading everything.
Speaker: And the one thing that was so important to me, in the first two weeks, I've read something about a gentleman who had died from the type of cancer I've got. And he had six months to live.
Speaker: And he was saying how thankful he was before he had died that he'd had those six months. Because unlike his friends who had been in the military who had died in Vietnam or who had died in a car wreck or from a heart attack, he had time to make things right.
Speaker: He had time to talk to people, um to just you know bury the hatch on problems, to assure people that they loved them and that they would be okay.
Speaker: um That meant a whole lot. And it really helped a couple weeks after that, when I finished reading that, as I was getting off the plane in Jackson, Wyoming, coming from work for a weekend to go skiing with my son.
Speaker: And when I got off the plane, was the first one off rushing down to to to get across the tarmac and get inside. And it was pure black ice. And I slipped and tore my ACL and found myself laying in the ice on the tarmac.
Speaker: And I remembered something my daughter told me that day. And it's it's it's one of those wonderful things you'll never forget. i i had been on my daughter because she had wrecked a car and give me like Give me a break. It shouldn't happened.
Speaker: And after a while, she said, Dad, the ambulance is gone. She said, get over it. I can't change it. And it goes back to things I learned as a kid is you must all give up hope for a better yesterday.
Speaker: But I'm laying on the ground in the ice and saying, what else do I have to deal with? And just thought about what my daughter said. Dad, the ambulance is gone. At that moment,
Speaker: the rest of my life changed because I stood up hobbled in and I decided that I was to make some things happen that I hadn't done before.
Speaker: was going to make things right with my family, with other people, uh, spend more time, you know, taking care of those issues and, you know, and trying to celebrate life every day.
Speaker: So, uh, that that's That was kind of like the turning point, but it all came about, I think, because of the fact that when dad walks in after and tells you we're moving in three weeks, we're moving.
Speaker: So you you if you dwell on it, it's negative. If you say it's exciting, it's positive. I love that because even how you perceived and how you talked about how you choose to use your energy, even when you express about cancer, instead of using it all towards your energy of like, I hate cancer. i do that you You shift even just how you express about this journey of cancer.
Speaker: in in how you say of it, making, setting you free of it, completely shifting your priorities of you doing the things you love and the passion. That's exactly what you were saying there. You could make that trip, that new move exciting, or you can make it be nerve wracking when you were growing up. Right. And that same philosophy you have used in your cancer journey.
Speaker: Absolutely. and And one of the things though, is everything you do in the past will prepare you for the future. Well, the most important thing that happened to me was i was doing big deals, billion dollar transactions.
Speaker: And sometimes there was 30 or 50 lawyers on one of my deals. And I would have experts in tax law, environmental law, litigation, all these different specialties. Well, when I got to see the the world's expert, and there always probably two or three really big experts in every field.
Speaker: um where When that happened, um it was I knew I needed more than one doctor. Okay. And I needed a team. And just like the teams I had when I was doing my deals.
Speaker: um And one of the reasons for that is when you're problem solving, and you know, and and doing critical thinking, it's like a ball. The issue is like a ball. It's not like a black and white issue. It's it's like a ball.
Speaker: You want to see all sides of the ball and see from, look at the problem from every aspect. And then, then when you're really into this, what you do is you go through the air hole inside the ball and look out and you see what's the inside of the ball. It's not red. Like the outside is it's black.
Speaker: And that bringing together a team um, you know, what I did. And as a result, I mean, I've had 55 surgeries in the 18 years and it looks like going to have a 56 maybe next week, but, um,
Speaker: you know i and up I put the specialists together to work everybody. and i ended up being my own navigator for a long time, which was probably not a good idea.
Speaker: But building a team before the multidisciplinary approach to cancer care came into being in the United States is what I had done. and That's one of the reasons I think I'm alive today.
Speaker: i never asked how long I had because I had decided I was goingnna make every minute count and make the world, try to make the world a better place for as long as I had.
Speaker: But my daughter was told that I had two and a half years probably. And so I'm 7.2 times that amount of times now after my 6,000 plus days of oral chemo and 600 plus days of IV. You know, it's just celebrating life every day.
Speaker: And how do I do that? I mean, It actually happened yesterday. had to talk to an American Express person who's on my team at American Express because there was a a problem. And she asked me, she said at the end of the call, what can do, anything else I do to help you, Mr. Sturm, the way they always do?
Speaker: And I said, yeah, you could get the Internet working back in western Wyoming and eastern Idaho. And she took it seriously for a second. And I just started laughing. I said, that's a joke, ma'am. Well, she just started cracking up.
Speaker: Well, one of my objectives every day to put a smile on somebody's face. And every day you put a smile on somebody's face, you make somebody else's life better.
Speaker: And every day you do that, you make your own life better. And just remembering that you can't change the history, you can change the future. um it that's what it's all about. Well, I didn't hadn't heard about multidisciplinary cancer treatment until probably December of last year and the impact of it. And one of my of friends out here, daughter's 25, has metastatic stage four breast cancer at 25.
Speaker: And they know I do a lot of research and write in this area. And they said, Glenn, can you find the best program in States for us? I said, I'm not a doc, but let me go to work on it.
Speaker: So I came back a day and a half later, basically working straight through. I said, I think I've got the things, but I'm not finding everything I want. He said, well, Glenn, can i could you see if you can find something California too? and I said, sure.
Speaker: And i found the University of San Francisco has a true multidisciplinary approach. which means it's patient-centered treatment on cancer.
Speaker: And their statistics were unbelievable, absolutely unbelievably better than anything i else I could find. And what what happened then is I started doing more and more research on it.
Speaker: I found the Williams and Thompson study where they studied 156,187 patients and thirty seven studies and they determined that there was a lower risk for patients with multidisciplinary approaches than patients with silo approaches.
Speaker: It's just stunning. It's been going on in Australia for 30 years and Europe for 25. And it's fundamentally changing the outcomes for people. um the The statistics show that the lowest reduction in mortality rates that anybody's found for people who are using multidisciplinary Dr. This very approaches is 14% the highest is 90% reduction in the mortality rate, but in every case is reduction and in every case if it's silent practice there's no reduction.
Speaker: it It just makes sense because of the fact that we are holistic, you know, that holistic approach, just even just that comparison that you made with the ball, right? There's not just two perspectives, as you said, there's way more than that. And if we approach not only our lives, but our health in that way of knowing that there is way more ways of looking into things, then the results are going to be much better.
Speaker: better. So well that's that's fantastic that you were able to use that approach on yourself, but now your friends are even asking you, where can I go? Well, I've got a book coming out in about six weeks on this topic.
Speaker: It's called A New Hope. And um it's there's another statistic that kind of jumps off the page. And that is when you take things to a multidisciplinary practice, they have something called a multidisciplinary meeting.
Speaker: So I've never, there could be as many as 50 people on a multidisciplinary team. There are probably four or five administrators who are critical because they're research analysts and, you know, and, you know, clinical trials analysts and statisticians, but they're all sorts of doctors, but they all look at the problem from a different perspective.
Speaker: And what happens is, and this is conservative, between 15% and 50% had their treatment plans modified after that meeting.
Speaker: Okay. And between 10% and 35% of the people had their diagnoses changed. Okay. Another way of saying that is a third of the time the diagnosis is wrong.
Speaker: And 50% of the time you have to change the whole treatment program. Well, that's one of the reasons why. have to have a consensus about this, by the way. It's not just one person dictating it, which is what they used to do with the tumor board.
Speaker: You know, good doctors always work together with other people. But in this case, this process is so successful that you're looking at, I mean, in a study in Europe, it said 67% of the time the diagnosis has changed.
Speaker: um I think that's too high. That can't be right. But, you know, 50 percent, yes. 35 percent changing the diagnosis is just stunning.
Speaker: But even it's just even if it's just 10 percent, it changes everything. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's 10 percent of people that thought they didn't even have a chance that maybe now do. Well, well, and the thing is, is and again, you were you're reducing the mortality rates dramatically.
Speaker: Now, this is not a survival rate change, but a mortality rate. But but let's say the mortality rate is, you know, 50 percent and it drops down to 35 percent because of this. And there are charts that are in my book that are quoting and NIH studies about it that shows you for all the different types of cancer where those things are.
Speaker: and one of the things I'm doing with the book is um I've written in addition to the book, which is, you know, you tell a story about it. but there are seven exhaustive memos about each of the subjects. And so, you know, one's about quality of life and how the higher And this is so common common sense. hi Is this one in The New Hope?
Speaker: Is this one in The New Hope, the other one that's coming up? The New Book Camp. Okay. The new one. Why is this one not listed in your bio? i'm like I'm like, wait, this one's not listed. They listed the novel that's coming up, but they didn't put this other one. I don't know how that happened, but it shouldn't have. Because i I stopped working on the novel.
Speaker: and since December, I've worked basically full-time 12 hours a day. Okay, so so this is the one that by the time that this episode airs, this is the other one that people can get is A New Hope as well as Cancer Set Me Free. Okay, sorry for the parenthesis there to you and to the audience, but that was important clarification. There's the interesting thing about that quality of life is you would think that the better your life is, the longer you're going to live. Think about old folks who have something to do that they enjoy doing every day.
Speaker: they're They're passionate about life and they live longer. Well, guess what? Same thing in cancer. What were are the two most common problems? One is called cancer fatigue syndrome, and there are ways of dealing with that.
Speaker: And the other one is chemo brain, and there are ways of dealing with that. And so um i when I got first diagnosed, I had real problems with sleeping. I would just fall asleep.
Speaker: andnna And independently of the cancer group, I was diagnosed with narcolepsy. which just means you just fall asleep randomly. And they gave me a prescription for something that I was familiar with because it was the go pills were used in the military.
Speaker: And the good thing about it is is that also increased cognitive function. Well, I was pretty smart guy to start with, but this gave me all the energy I had lost.
Speaker: And so I was started, that's how how I've written seven books in three years now. And it's just amazing. But you take care of those two things. It means you're gonna get out of bark lounger and go for a walk, go play golf, go hiking, go take pictures, go do something, spend time playing with your grandchildren or spend time taking care of your parents if you're young.
Speaker: I mean, it just changes your prognosis. And so the there's almost a linear relationship between the quality of life. in the increase in the in the length of life. So I'm not going to, I'll do this. These statistics are inaccurate, what I'm going to say. So let's say there's 10% increase in your quality of of life.
Speaker: There's close to a 10% increase in your mortality and your longevity. And it just makes common sense though, because you all seen people who don't do anything when they get older, who complain about life and they don't put a smile on their face.
Speaker: And then you see the one who has always got a smile on their face and they work it. Well, when you give people their energy back and their function, their cognitive functioning back, if they have that problem, you're increasing their quality of life dramatically. And it it just goes a long way.
Speaker: And so one of the, I did a ah ah list of the complete multidisciplinary team, which is just totally over-inclusive of everybody who should be involved.
Speaker: But it, it It basically the second most important person I think is a psychiatrist. And so let me tell you how how that happened for me. um A little while after I'd gotten cancer, I lost my dog.
Speaker: I then um lost my my dad and my mentor, another guy who was my mentor, my two big mentors, and I got served with divorce papers.
Speaker: And so My general practitioner said, Glenn, this is a little bit too much for anybody to handle. You need to talk to somebody about all this stuff. I said, I'm fine. She said, Glenn, do me a favor. Just go talk.
Speaker: And so I did. And she's the one who figured out I had narcolepsy and helped me cover the that issue. But when you go through the whole team list, the 50 type people, it ends with like a music therapist or an art therapist.
Speaker: That could be a big deal to one person. So I've got, I got six people on my team, but the most important thing in the whole process is communication, talking to each other.
Speaker: So one of the reasons I've done well in my chemo is my physical therapist who I, I had a bad bike wreck and I had to have physical therapy for a long time.
Speaker: Um, And she would every day, every Friday, basically would take pictures of where my cancer was presenting itself and write a note to my oncologist.
Speaker: So that guess what? We had, you know, this wonderful communications process and um it we changed my treatment regularly.
Speaker: And it's just, incredible what that does. If you look at the biggest problems with silo-based practices is communications failures, fragmented service deliveries, delayed treatment, ah and poor survival out outcomes as a result of those things.
Speaker: And this these those things I just quoted you are all from and NIH peer-reviewed articles, National Institute of Health peer-reviewed articles. And so the The worst thing is it gets to be suboptimal staging and treatment selections.
Speaker: So if you have a team, you you don't have those problems. If you have communication. Yeah, if you have – that's what I was going say. The communication, because you can have the team, but if there's no communication, then it's as if you're like on a spaceship getting to the moon and you're not communicating with Houston. Houston, I've got a problem. Well, Houston's not hearing. You're up there. or You're alone. It doesn't matter if you have a team, right?
Speaker: Absolutely correct. the yeah What I'm going to do is I was trying to find something on my desktop, but there are actually – communications protocols that are being used in multidisciplinary work.
Speaker: And if you'll follow those processes, it solves this issue. And what you have to have though is people who are committed to it. And if you're committed to multidisciplinary, it's gonna work and work real well.
Speaker: If you're not committed to it, it won't. um But though that if you look at everybody, they say it's too expensive. And the communications issues are overwhelming, but they're not.
Speaker: The other thing that's interesting is ah there's an NIH article on this, which it's buried in the article. um so I'm going to give you a predicate story. I was on a plane flying to Mayo Clinic from my home.
Speaker: And um the gentleman sitting next to me, we started talking. And he saw some of my photography. We were just talking about stuff. he he know He knew a little bit about me. And I said, where are you going? He said, I'm going to MD Anderson. I've got cancer.
Speaker: And he's a highly regarded world worldwide cardiologist. and he And we started talking about multidisciplinary. And he wasn't very familiar with it.
Speaker: And he he said to me that he had just, the reason he was going to MD Anderson, which has a big multidisciplinary practice, was that the hospital had been seeing him.
Speaker: They were doing a tumor board meeting about him. And he's a doctor, okay, world-class doctor. He's a very smart guy, understands the you know how to work together with a team.
Speaker: And he asked to listen in on the doctor's discussion, but not be able to talk to them. He just wanted to listen. Well, he's a scientist. he's a community This guy's world round.
Speaker: And they said no. Well, in multidisciplinary, the multidisciplinary meeting, when you bring all the experts together and they talk about all the different ways of looking at it, the patients are encouraged to attend.
Speaker: Okay, now some hospitals won't let you do it. Those do. but But how do you know, how do you understand that you're in power, you you have the power to help yourself if you don't know what's going on, if you don't know what the options are?
Speaker: Well, a lot of people might not be able to handle it. But maybe your caregiver could, or maybe your your your your you internist could. um Somebody who has your interests involved.
Speaker: Well, people who are on the team work for the hospital generally. um They're looking out, they look at things from their perspective and they're trying to do the right thing and they do the right thing almost always, but they may not understand what you're looking for and what your priorities are.
Speaker: And so it's a big deal. to have patient involvement. And there's one state in Germany, the province, whatever they call it, it is mandatory that two things, that the patient be involved, number one, and number two, it's mandatory that the doctors follow the recommendations of the multidisciplinary team, mandatory.
Speaker: Now, i don't know were if I'm ready for that because Sometimes the best doctor in the world may know something else. And that example happened to me recently when I was at Mayo. ah they were I was there for my executive physical, man that one of those old you know week-long things. And they had me see the the lymphoma specialist.
Speaker: And the person there was a that I first met with as a resident, no, no, no, she was a fellow. And she said, did you have this treatment? I said, no. Did you have this treatment? No. You just went straight into you world and IV chemo. I said, yeah.
Speaker: And she said, I've never seen anybody have that kind of treatment. I said, no. She said, your doctor is probably the most famous doctor in this field. I said, yep. And she said, what happened? I mean, you know why? And it was really simple. i had been misdiagnosed for 10 years and i had spots in my lungs and spots on my spines. And I wasn't going to let it.
Speaker: i said, go as hard as you can. Be as aggressive as you can to kill it. And so we can't kill it, Glenn, but we can contain it. We can knock it back. And so instead of two and a half years, I'm here 17 years later.
Speaker: um But having that kind of a discussion that she didn't go through the regular thing, she a multidisciplinary team might have pushed her towards ah the regular progression.
Speaker: um That wasn't the right thing. So you've got somebody who's world-renowned that people fly from all over the world to see. i want her to be in multidisciplinary meetings, but you know how do you balance that?
Speaker: And that's not easy. there's It's a huge learning function, but in the normal cases, there is no doubt that this technique is so much better than every other technique there is in the world. It's unbelievable.
Speaker: i Really appreciate you saying about the fact that the patient really has to be part of that. Ideally, you want to be part of that as a patient, because ultimately, if the patient's left out, ah the patient's the one that knows really what ah what is going on twenty four seven Really, you're the one living with yourself all the time. You're the one that knows what your thoughts are. You're the one that knows what you eat. You're the one that knows if you have a community around you. Things that may they can't see under a microscope that are only patient information that is also important in the whole process. So I love that you were able to find that way of being able to participate in your in your whole process and yet also acknowledging what the expertise are of each of your physicians. Well, let me...
Speaker: Be really specific about some things. So the first thing that happened to me, um big side effect, was I had liver failure. Okay, so the AST and ALT levels started doubling every three weeks, which is a bad thing.
Speaker: And like I'm six weeks into this, you know, the third, excuse me, the third, we're nine weeks in, and I'm seeing a liver doctor they can't figure out what's going on.
Speaker: but they put me on the liver transplant list. And I'm sitting here thinking, I said, okay, you know, if I don't figure this out, they're never going to give me a transplant because I've got stage four diagnosis cancer and they're not going to give a liver to a, you know, 50 plus year old guy, 55 at the time, probably 56 year old who's got s stage four cancer.
Speaker: That's not going to happen. They assured me it would, but I said, that ain't going happen. So I went back and I looked at every change in my life for past two years, the time of days I was working out, um know the fact that I'd stopped drinking alcohol um and and did charted everything.
Speaker: And then I ran something called a correlation coefficient with the onset of the disease change and the the causes, we have these other side effects and you know and changes of it habits.
Speaker: And it turned out that I had a correlation coefficient of 0.96. Now, at at the hospital, they were they got yeahs Yale, big time people, great doctors.
Speaker: They brought in people from Oxford to check on it to figure see if they could figure out. They reviewed biopsies. And I go back after doing this work and said, I've identified the cause.
Speaker: It's a medicine you gave me. The correlation coefficient is 0.96. which is unheard of. I mean, it's like, it's like, as know, that is that that there's there's no room for just absolute correlation.
Speaker: And the doctor said to me, said, Glenn, that could be as correlation to be perfect, but that's not causation. It's just correlation could be, you spurious data, you know, just inaccurate data.
Speaker: And I said, well, we're going to find out if it is because i quit taking that drug. I quit taking it the minute I saw those numbers. And nine weeks later, my level liver enzymes were back to normal.
Speaker: So I ended up being one of the statisticians in my thing. So then that was something I learned. I said, i'm I'm responsible for my own health, period. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Speaker: So then this is something I had. All of a sudden, got real sick, and I went to the hospital for my chemo. And the nurses talked to me for about five minutes. and They said, we'll be right back.
Speaker: They came right back with the principal know lymphoma doctor at Yale, world renowned. I mean, she speaks all over the world all the time. And she said, Glenn, we brought somebody, some experts in to see you.
Speaker: So a couple hours later, a couple of minutes later, probably 30 minutes, the head gastro surgery at Yale and the head of robotic surgery at Yale were in there.
Speaker: And they admitted me to the hospital. And I had a massive intestinal infection issue um that, you know, I didn't know how bad it was. So later ended up with a big surgery, five hours surgery.
Speaker: Well, what I didn't know was that um that exact side effect is a side effect of chemo. I figured that out about seven years ago in my research.
Speaker: When just started looking at every single thing I had to see what the cause was. And in my book, I talk about the first warning. The second warning was the liver failure. The third warning was the haven't been septic having sepsis and being septic with an infection that could have killed me.
Speaker: um And then the next big warning was the eye problems. I've had five detached retinas in my left eye. And I've been on a new chemo, same kind of a thing.
Speaker: After 90 days, had a detached retina. i didn't think anything of it. They fixed it. 90 days later, I had another detached retina in the same eye. Didn't think anything of it. After 90 days, I had another detached retina. I said, okay, this is ah this is a pattern, I think. And so I did the research and found it and we went off it. And I ended up with five detached retinas in that eye.
Speaker: But it's been about seven surgeries because of that. And, you know, and then, you know, Then I had a communications failure, which was the final warning that made me write this book because they didn't talk to each other.
Speaker: i had a tumor on the L3 root nerve and the pain was so intense. And some doctors didn't review my records, didn't review the MRI that their hospital had done and put me on a drug that put me into a comatose state.
Speaker: And i was in a, I was in something called ketoacidosis, which my body was consuming itself. And that was because of a communications failure and the failure to review of my records. And if it hadn't been for a daughter jumping in and helping me, um you know, I wouldn't be here.
Speaker: So the whole thing is the communication is the key. Whether you're in a silo-based practice or a know regular practice, you've got to have communication.
Speaker: But I go through each of those things and there's memos that back up that are in depth about the liver failure, the eye problems, intestinal problems, and then almost being killed.
Speaker: And it's really simple. I mean, I wear a Rode which has all of my medical history. You just turn it over and right on there and there's an 800 number and a website with a serial number. You got everything, including all my images.
Speaker: And they just ignored it. they didn' They thought they knew better. And um that's the sad thing is you know, if you don't advocate for yourself, you're a problem. Well, the first time I couldn't advocate for myself because I was in a really bad bike accident and had been unconscious for 45 minutes.
Speaker: the last time I couldn't advocate for myself because the pain was so debilitating because the root nerve. And the just to give you how crazy that was, the MRI that showed it was on January 29th, and it wasn't addressed until July fifteenth after I got involved.
Speaker: Oh, this is the, wait, this is different. So January, this is the same year as your, as your diagnosis of 2009. no no two thousand seven No, no, no, oh so twenty five junior twenty five and in may ah they give me the wrong medicines i was commaose and we couldn't figure out what the problem was the pain was just crazy and then it was on an mri and it been done in january And i showed you if I showed you the picture, you would yeah he say, how could they miss that?
Speaker: Wow. And so I saw another doctor here in town and she looked at it and she said I needed to see a neurosurgeon immediately.
Speaker: it you You say, i mean, you're sharing in depth a lot of these, you know, stories that of your journey and it's it's just amazing hear hear what you've gone through in the 17 years. And one of the things that you mentioned in your book that a lot of times people ask you is how do you live 17 years with going to the treatments and and kind of like still thriving? And there's something you say that it's like you basically complementalize almost certain parts of that. You go to your trip, you go do that, and then you come back and you
Speaker: don't necessarily live day to day, even though you're researching, you don't live day to day with that aspect of the woe is me type of thing. You you just live, you go, you do runs, you do this, you you do your photography, you do your passions. And that I think is something that is, yes, I can say that sometimes people shift in perspective when something happens to them. But a lot of times it's just how we're built as human beings, right? is and the And the characteristics of your own life and your upbringing who make you who you are. So I um i don't know if you want to expand a little bit on that, on how you've been able to maintain.
Speaker: Well, go back to the ambulance story. i mean, when I got up, I said, that's it. I said, I'm not going to let cancer define me, period. And one of the ways I was able to do that is I don't have my chemo treatment in my town.
Speaker: It's ah you know, it's where I lived in Atlanta. It was a two hour flight. When I live out here, it's a lot longer, but I say cancer is in new Haven, Connecticut at Yale.
Speaker: It doesn't come with me. It stays there. And when I leave, i leave it behind. I don't think about it. I I've got, you know, 50 some pills I take every day, 30 prescriptions.
Speaker: But I mean, that's just, you know, that's a nuisance, but that's all it is. You know, I wouldn't let cancer define me. And once you decide that you're not a victim, okay, that you have power,
Speaker: yeah you're fine. that what And you know, you may not live forever, but none of us are going to. but But here's what's happened. about this i mean with this multidisciplinary approach that i started for myself but now it's you ingrained is that two and a half years that was out there today i did i did a study of myself recently with my conditions and everything and um my life expectancy now is 30 years so i mean i don't know if i want to be around 30 years from now but um yeah because i won't be able to do all the stuff i like to do maybe
Speaker: Um, you know, but I mean, I'm back to, um, you know, playing golf, uh, which I like love to compete. I don't know if it'll be at that level again after the spine surgery, but, uh, you know, I'm writing books, I'm sitting down researching, I'm learning things and learning things every day and helping other people.
Speaker: i mean, this morning, this ah this is a simple thing. There's a, I was in the gym working out and there's a young man who works out every morning. hes in high school. And he's a lacrosse player.
Speaker: And my daughter was on University of Florida's yeah first lacrosse team when they went to the final four. And um so I've got a Florida lacrosse hat. But Florida doesn't have a men's lacrosse team. They only got the women's. They've got a club team, which is very good. but so i But I had a little, my Florida lacrosse hat that I wore a lot, but it's in good shape.
Speaker: So I walked in and gave him the hat. And that kid went nuts and his dad was working out too. And he goes over and shows it to his dad and just the kid was happy. I mean, okay, I put a smile on his face and, you know, that just changes the day. And that young man, it changed his day.
Speaker: And, you know, and, you know so, you know, dad said, we talked for a second about some stuff, but, you know, it's just the right thing to do. But every day you make somebody else's life better, you're making your own better.
Speaker: And so, mean, it's, uh, one the last thing The last big point that I haven't made is about the companies and the businesses that I've been fortunate to run.
Speaker: um i i always have the same policy that I want everybody to follow, all the employees in the company to follow every day. Every day, i want them to ask themselves a question on the way home from work.
Speaker: ah You're not allowed to ask anybody else this question. You can only ask yourself this question. What did I do today make somebody's job easier or their life better?
Speaker: Ask yourself that question every day. And if you get a company where people are asking themselves that question every day, you're not going to have a positive answer to it every day. If you do two or three days a week, you're to thinking about it and you're going to up doing it instead of two or three days, maybe three or four days.
Speaker: And if everybody starts doing that, the whole place is a different place to work. Okay, you start building team, you start building relationships, and you start caring about each other. And if we think about that in life, just, you know, have I done something today to make somebody's life better?
Speaker: Putting a smile on their face makes their life better. You know, there are other things you can do. I mean, when you're talking, how do you do I mean, we're out here when it snows. We get so much snow that I don't drive like three or four feet in a day sometimes.
Speaker: Some people I talk to that day are on the, you know a phone call, some talk to somebody on a call center. And it's like the the lady at American Express that I asked her to fix the internet and I got her laughing.
Speaker: Well, that's how I do it for those people. So it's a challenge sometimes somebody's had a bad day. She hadn't had a bad day, but but I got her laughing. But if you actually focus on that, it changes.
Speaker: um All of my photography that I do To date, I've never taken a penny for it. Everything that's sold, 100% of the revenue goes to children's health ah or PTSD or battered shelters or cancer.
Speaker: There have been some exceptions to that where you know people who are extraordinary people have given been given a gift. I've hardly ever known those people, but people come to me and say, Glenn, can you give us a piece of art for this person who's been serving the community for 30 years?
Speaker: i said, of course. the The records people at the hospital here are in a basement. And one day they said, Glenn, is there do you have any extra art you could give us? And I brought him one of my best pieces.
Speaker: And i only make I only sell one copy of anything. So they got an original one of one. And they smile it. And every time I go downstairs for something, they just get big smiles on their face and they say, thank you.
Speaker: That just feeds your your your wellness by doing things like that. And and we we must all learn how to get along.
Speaker: And if you worry about other people first, it works. And the last thing is my son, who's the smartest person I've ever met. He's a wizard. I call him the wizard, but he really is.
Speaker: We would argue incessantly about topics. And it drove me nuts. I mean, because he was he's so smart and and I'm pretty smart myself, but um he researches everything to the nth degree. And I do a little bit of that.
Speaker: But I finally had enough of it. I said, Daniel, here's the new rule. We are not going to discuss something unless we first discuss everything we agree upon.
Speaker: And then we try to identify information that you have that I don't have and that I have that you don't have. And we try to get our information levels equal.
Speaker: bet you we find out that we don't agree upon disagree upon many things. And guess what? It's worked. I love that approach. I love that, that you start with what you already agree Because a lot of times, too, when we're already sharing our perspective, we're so attached to it that we're not... And this is something you also mentioned in the book is about the aspect of actually actively listening to someone else. You are so attached to the idea of expressing in that moment that you're not even listening anymore. But if you've already come to that understanding with your son of what you do agree, then anything else you add is just...
Speaker: Yeah, they're envelo it there's a friend of mine who's done several TED Talks and we're kicking the idea around of the two of us doing a TED Talk that way and having a topic that neither one of us is a world expert on that will read independently and then come in there.
Speaker: But we have different perspectives. There ares not many things we disagree about, um but there are some and we would pick one of those topics and then use this process. Because if if you If you look at things, normally there's a litmus test for something.
Speaker: Okay. And you fail the litmus test, you fail as a person in the other person's eyes. No. I mean, very rarely do people, you might disagree about one aspect of an issue, but you agree about 95% of the other things. And so it's a different way of approaching it. But again, if you go back to the multidisciplinary team,
Speaker: They're required to achieve a consensus opinion, not an equally divided opinion. And there's a process for a tie breaking.
Speaker: But if they have to use that process, it's a failure.
Speaker: OK, now, if you're a patient and you've got two groups of doctors and other specialists going head to head and they can't agree, what are you going to do?
Speaker: going to find a third doctor. Okay, somebody who can figure out what why these two people can't agree. That doesn't happen. I mean, the the consensus is there, but there's always a tiebreaker in place. But this way of approaching a problem is a is is a really, really appropriate way to address all complex issues.
Speaker: So important. Thank you. It's it's lessons that that we learn either from our own life experiences that then take us to then address situations like the one you're doing now with cancer in a certain way. And also the lessons you've learned in your own cancer journey that you then can apply into your other aspects of life. It's a symbiotic relationship there of what you're learning along the way. Yeah. Well, the, um, that's it. I mean, and so the real question gets to be at a certain point, um,
Speaker: you know, what does a new patient do? Okay, you're just diagnosed and what are you doing? So there are QR codes with the book for these memos I've written.
Speaker: And the reason for that is you can download them and then you can share them with people. That's not violating my copyright because I want you to do that. It's just like the Cancer Set Me Free book. I've got one woman who has given it away 10 times.
Speaker: And every time she gives it away, she sends me a note that she gave it away. And I sign a first edition, because I've kept a couple boxes of those, and send it back to her by FedEx.
Speaker: I want people, it's just you're just saving, you're just you sharing information and data that is so critical. And um I just think it's you've got to do that. So what happens when you, you know,
Speaker: When you get into this process, you're newly diagnosed or you have a friend who's newly diagnosed, um how do you how do you answer questions? So what you should do is give them a copy of the memo and the team members of a multidisciplinary team and the reasons for it.
Speaker: It's not that complicated to read, but it's a it's a good document. and It's called the Complete Cancer Care Team. And there's a question though that I want you to ask.
Speaker: you You go to your doctor in your hospital for the new patient and say the following. The question is no longer whether a fully integrated multidisciplinary cancer care team works.
Speaker: It works and the results are breathtaking. The real question is whether you and your institution are providing it. If you're not providing it, Where should I go to get it?
Speaker: OK, that's perfect. Yeah, so I've got um a letter for the it's all in in the QR one for the new patient once for the new caregiver. And then there's one for the institution. And it says the question.
Speaker: is whether your and institution is providing this service if it isn't providing it at the highest quality level, how are you going to fix this problem? If you aren't going to fix the problem, where should you send your patients?
Speaker: It's that simple. Go ahead. go ahead No, no, no, no that That is so helpful because it's just something that anybody could apply. And ideally, if you ask that to a hospital, you will know right away like if they're the right team for you because they've been right right away you know if you want to work alongside with them. You're interviewing people.
Speaker: your team, just like you would in a business and Vedeva, you want the right team to be in your company. And this is going to be your company that's running your life. So this is an interview process.
Speaker: Right. It's patient centered care. You're the patient. It's your life. Okay. Ask the question. So, um, when you see the list, it goes gone kind of crazy. I've kind of done it, but, but, um, I was on the phone with somebody I a big institution who had done a surgery with me. You figured that out probably. But they said a couple of things. And I said, when did you guys start multidisciplinary? I know you always had this kind of a general approach, but when did you start formal multidisciplinary? And he said, who told you that?
Speaker: I said, you did. so I didn't use that word. I said, no, you didn't use that word, but you said you were doing these things. And that's multidisciplinary. He said, well, Glenn, the hard thing is to do is to put together to put together who the team needs to, what are all the members of the team?
Speaker: i said, look in your inbox right now for an email I just sent you. And he looked it and he said, who in the heck wrote this? I've never heard about this memo before. I said, I did.
Speaker: And they said, you wrote this? And I said, yeah. And he he looked at it and he said, know, I mean, you've got 16 footnotes on this thing, you footnoted almost every principal caregiver. And I said, yeah.
Speaker: This is what you need. This is what the team needs to be. Now, does everybody need a music therapist? No. But there are people who might. But does everybody need a navigator? Absolutely. Does everybody need a guide? Yes.
Speaker: And that's the person, those are the people who help you solve logistics problems and side effect problems. OK. i mean, And so i this is not in in order of importance in this memo.
Speaker: It's just in, its it starts with your principal doctor. The second doctor is ah is an ah oncologist, but though i mean the psychiatrist, the one I love the best is a new doctor that I'd never heard of before.
Speaker: And it's a computational oncologist.
Speaker: Guess what? They can do the correlation issues. They can do statistical analysis and genome analysis. They're the wizards. They're the most highest demand physicians at any major hospital today in the country.
Speaker: And I hadn't heard of them before i did the research. um So hopefully this helps people. Again, I'm not a doc. There are going tonna be doctors who disagree with me because docs some doctors are arere going to let their ego get in the way.
Speaker: The insurance companies are going to hate it. because you're going to live longer. My bills approach a million dollars every year in a good year. um And I used to worry about it, but I don't anymore because I paid for it.
Speaker: And so I'm now, you know, um' I'm the one they don't like to find out about. And would they rather me die soon? Yes, they would, but I'm not going to do that because I'm responsible for my care.
Speaker: I'm responsible for it. And because also, Sturms never quit, as you say in your book. ah So you are like, I'm just going to keep going, just like you've done with your life and your marathons and everything that you've done. You just set your mind to it and you keep going. You're like, it just keep swimming, just keep swimming. And the little um Finding Nemo thing, one of the characters just keeps swimming. You know, it's just basically that just keep swimming, just keep going. So thank you so much, Glenn. This is a lot of information and for just and a glimpse of it, really. And in your books, again, the one the one that we were talking about was cancer set you free cancer Cancer Set Me Free. And then the one that you will have also available soon and probably by the time this episode is released is New Hope. And both of these, is it on your website of Glenn Sturm, The Best Way? Because your photography is there as well and other books that you've written.
Speaker: Yeah, my the website is
Speaker: str dot com Now, um I'm assuming that people will be respectful, which is one of the things I hope, because I'm going to give you if you, if somebody needs something,
Speaker: i'm not I'm a lawyer, but I don't represent i don't practice law anymore. It's a front ah But if somebody needs help in this area and has a question that's really important, you can send me an email. And it's Glenn with two Ns at Sturm.net.
Speaker: And so, yeah, I've got the world's worst spam filter, or actually the best spam filter. But if you don't get in, then go through the website and do posting there. And the people there will find it and get it to me right away.
Speaker: So, I mean, it's, i'm I've been so, I've been so blessed. Um, that, you know, i've I've got a duty to others. So that's what i do now. Paying it forward, paying it forward. And what you always, you know, say to others when you're serving them and when you've given them the opportunity, of at least of what I've heard in your book is that the way that they can pay you back is by paying it forward as well. So, and that's just the, the way that, that,
Speaker: that life really does get better. We make somebody else's life better by with a smile or whatever it else we do, whether it is writing your story and it impacting and changing the trajectory of somebody's health journey, that is a way of paying it forward as well. So thank you, Glenn. Glenn, as i mentioned at the beginning, before we started recording, I like to make sure that the guests get to share anything that maybe be was not addressed yet before we wrap up? Was there anything you feel that the audience was left kind of still not knowing? Well, but one day one thing I haven't said is, as my golden tries to mug me right now, is this. People don't understand one aspect of the process is the caregivers.
Speaker: They have it harder than the patient because they can't solve the problem And people pay attention to the patient. They hardly ever pay attention to the caregiver. So do your friends and do me a favor.
Speaker: Those who are suffering from something like this, take care of the caregiver. I mean, it could be something, you know, if if you're if you're going to get your nails done and you're your one of your friend's is husband's got cancer, you know, take her with you or offer to do that.
Speaker: Little things like that just are so important. And, you know, one of my friends, his wife ended up with early onset Alzheimer's and he, you know, he took care of her himself the whole time until she passed.
Speaker: And it was seven years and he wouldn't let anybody help, which I kept on saying, you got to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. So if you're taking, helping the caregiver take care of themselves,
Speaker: You're really helping the patient. Yes, absolutely. And you're also just helping that that person doesn't end up deteriorating themselves in that process too. Exactly. helping Yeah, double double work. Thank you once again. Again, this was Glenn Sturm and it was a pleasure getting to learn from you and all the different tips that you shared. So thank you, Glenn.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
Speaker: If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
Speaker: Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
Speaker: And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.
