Transcript
Speaker: No, I mean, that took, you know, I was away at school at the time. i was in upstate New York, and I remember taking the bus down. and I'd plan like this is, I'm going to talk to her about it. And I'd make an excuse for coming down for the weekend. And then I'd chicken out, wouldn't do it.
Speaker: And then finally I did. And I confronted her on it and she just went crazy. I mean, she started beating me with an umbrella screaming, how dare you, it's none of your business. I wanted to go to the grave with this. You know, it's none of your business. It's like, how could it not be my business? It was my father, you know?
Speaker: So that didn't go too well, but.
Speaker: Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I'm your host, Kendra Rinaldi. This is a space to explore the full spectrum of grief, from the kind that comes with death to the kind that shows up in life's many transitions.
Speaker: Through stories and conversations, we remind each other that we're not alone. Your journey matters, and here we're figuring it out together. Let's dive right in to today's episode.
Speaker: Let's start with a quick disclaimer. This podcast includes personal stories and perspectives on topics like grief, health, and mental wellness. The views expressed by guests are their own and may reflect individual experiences that are not meant as medical advice.
Speaker: As the host, I hold space for diverse voices, but that does not mean I endorse every viewpoint shared. Please listen with care and take what resonates with you. Hello, hello. Today I am talking to Joanne Redding. She is Brooklyn-born author and the newest book, well, or only right now book, or her memoir, which is titled House of Pretend.
Speaker: And we will be talking about her own grief journey and also her debut as a memoirist, as i of I don't even know if that's how you say that, but as an author here sharing your story. And thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing it this way as well.
Speaker: Kendra, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you. I'm glad you're here. And I know that talking about one's own grief can be like you mentioned just before of writing a book can feel like walking naked in the, what is it? In Times Square, you said? Times Square, yes. In Times Square, it's very, you know, especially because it is a memoir. It's not a novel. It's your own recollection of what was true to you and what you lived. And I appreciate you coming on here and sharing because a lot of times,
Speaker: when we hear other people's stories, this is what I say in my intro, even of this podcast is by people listening to other people's stories that can see a little glimpse of their own selves in that and feel kind of accompanied in their own grief and not feel so alone. So thank you for for doing that. And I'm sure your book, of course, does that as well for many. So thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. And actually,
Speaker: Part of why i I wrote it is just recognizing what books did for me in times that I needed to be reassured that I'd be able to get through to the next part of my life. So hopefully it will help somebody.
Speaker: Yes. Well, tell us then of your upbringing. Today, your main, like early on grief was your dad's passing when you were really young.
Speaker: And I would love to hear about that dynamic and relationship you had with him and a little of that child going through this grief. Yeah. When my father passed away, I was six. I had just finished first grade.
Speaker: um And I... yeah You know, having him die when I was so young doesn't make for a whole lot of memories of him. But the ones I do have, which I share in the book, really are wonderful. i mean, him teaching me how to ride a bike, ah his smell, his, you know, he felt so big when he'd hug me. I speak of us going ice skating up in Bear Mountain, which was a big trip when we were coming from Brooklyn. It seemed like a faraway place. and I realize now it's not that far.
Speaker: um Fishing with him. you know he he just felt like a larger-than-life ah protector of me. And he was the person that, when I was little, I felt really saw me and got me and made me feel special.
Speaker: um My mother was a very different type of person. um She struggled with any emotional availability. She just didn't have it.
Speaker: And she was a narcissist. So, you know, as after he passed away, um it was very, very difficult. You know, was it was it was really unfortunate that we were left to be raised by her.
Speaker: So he he, in my mind, it's I'm sure i'm sure he had his bad points as well. um But in my memory, he was just a great guy and really loved me with his whole heart and made me feel special.
Speaker: I love that little phrase that you said. I'm sure he had his own faults. But what you what you were able to gather from him and the memories. And sometimes we do end up kind of, I say we put people sometimes on pedestals when they've died because we do want to remember these amazing moments. but there's still glimpses of things within there that you can kind of know that you were aware that not necessarily everything was like picture perfect. Like there they would be like yeah you know moments in which you could see your parents kind of talking or the fact that you even mentioned of their single beds in the bedroom, things like that, that there is still a perception that there was not like
Speaker: perfect household per se that you could that you could perceive ah that at your young age you could still perceive? Would that be correct? Yeah, that's definitely accurate. I mean, I i think that there was, um and certainly as I got older, looking back, you really understood a whole lot more. Like I understood how difficult it must have been for my father who ah was clearly struggling with um some issues, mental health issues and physical issues, to have had my mother to be the person to look for support from because that just was not forthcoming at all.
Speaker: um as I found out growing up. So I think, you know, I do ah speak in the book of of overhearing conversations that, you know, the the business he was in he was he worked for a newspaper, um that that business at that time was shaky. There were strikes going on, there was consolidation. So there were concerns about jobs and his health. And ah yeah, life was not perfect, but um for he seemed perfect to me. And I think Certainly that feeling was amplified ah subsequently being left in the care of my mother only.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. Then you really had that contrast. You didn't have any yes at all. Like you didn't have that space. Yes. I want to talk more about the circumstances of your dad's passing because that was a major thing that you did not really know the full truth at the age of six.
Speaker: of what had happened, which is normal for parents not to say necessarily the whole truth at that age, but that eventually you do end up saying other pieces of the puzzle later on, but you had to uncover them. Talk about that, please. Yeah. I mean, it's it's strange. i get that people think, parents often think that by withholding the truth, particularly with with what actually happened with my father. might be a good thing and that children might not be ready to handle that. But I think the the naivete about that is that everyone else on the street knew, all the other kids knew. So ah i you know we were told my father um i was in an accident with his car.
Speaker: They found his car on the Verrazano Bridge. um He jumped off the bridge. ah you know He died by suicide. But I didn't know that until I was in college.
Speaker: And i don't know if my so if my siblings knew. um Because he was never spoken of again. Literally, from the day he died, he was never mentioned. It was as though he never existed. um We never talked about his death. We never talked about how we felt.
Speaker: i It was... it was like a vault shut on him and any feelings that you had around him or his death. um But when I was in college, I signed up for an elective, sociology elective, and it was called On Death and Dying. And it was taught by a professor whose family actually owned the funeral home in town.
Speaker: And I remember the first class him saying to us all that, you know, there's reason why we signed up for a class named, called that, that there was some some reason and we might not know it then, but we'd figure it out. And sure enough, ah that led me to writing to the Department of Health to get a death certificate to find out what really happened. um Because clearly in my mind, thinking about it, it's like, that sounds like a weird story, but I really don't have anybody to ask about it or to talk about it with. So that's how I found out what had truly happened about 10 years after the fact.
Speaker: That moment your mom had, had your mom died or were you just disconnected that you never had asked her the truth? Because I haven't, I didn't read the full book. So there's parts of it that I don't know. Yeah, no, no. My mother hadn't died. My mother was just somebody that you didn't ask anything. I mean, and and certainly. if you did, you would have not gotten the full story out of it. And certainly the fact that she, uh,
Speaker: I literally never spoke of him again. i mean, it was as though he just didn't exist. It wasn't like, oh, your dad would have really loved that. Or, oh, you remind me of him doing this. It was like he he had never never been there. So we were never... Our grief was just locked up in a jar of shame.
Speaker: we we were we we for some reason... it clearly felt like it was shameful, his death, him. so there was shame and secrets and grief and just, you know, you're a little kid, you don't know what to do with it. So you blame, you know, you go through periods of blaming yourself that maybe it was something I did. Maybe i could have done better. And, and with her, with my mother's mental health issues, um, you know, you just, I remember always thinking that, uh,
Speaker: so Somehow you think you have power and control, right? That you've it's some fault of yours that's caused things to happen, right? So i used to think maybe if I had been cuter, somehow so this wouldn't have happened or funny or or a better kid. And with my mother just shutting down like a like a stone wall, all I did was try to make her notice me, try to make her acknowledge me or like me or, you know, and that never happened. Yeah.
Speaker: When she, a couple of days after my father died, she sat me down and i was six. And she said to me, listen, from now on, you're going to have to take care of yourself.
Speaker: And I remember, you know, sitting there thinking, okay, like, what does that mean? Like, if I don't do a good job taking care of myself, what's going to happen, right? Are you going to disappear me like you disappeared? Da, right? Will I just somehow disappear and not exist anymore? And You know, and she meant it. I mean, it wasn't just that I had to put myself to bed, make brush my hair, read you know, make sure brush my teeth. All of those things that usually moms will or parents will do help kids with um when they're little. She didn't do any of that. But it was also just...
Speaker: um Never having anyone to talk to, and never having anyone, you know, as you grew up to give advice or to comment on what you were doing with boys or to talk about school with.
Speaker: It was really- Isolating. Very lonely. Very isolating. Yeah, there's a part in the book that there's a character, I'll just say character, there's a child that dies, right? And that you wonder, I wonder if I were to disappear, if they would even notice I'm gone. That type of feeling, right? That this kid had, I don't want to say everything, but he had- There were two different situations in which we're really sad and very young children too. Was it Mark, who was your brother's friend or somebody at age of nine? Nine. Right? Have a child accidental overdose. Things that are very hard to already witness that you see already children your own age.
Speaker: in a, yeah you know, dying. So this is a ah ah ah reality that you were living in that you could also disappear per se, just like some of these kids had. And would anybody miss you? Your relationship with your siblings, your siblings were older than you. They were middle school age. It's hard for me to get your brother's age in the- He was about two and a half years older than I was. Okay. Your sister is the one that was much older. So-
Speaker: they were they Again, since they weren't given the space also to emotionally express, it was not like you guys even meant talked about your dad together either, right? No. Yeah, we didn't. um I don't know whether we were all just afraid to or afraid... ah Afraid my mother might find out. I don't know, but we never did. i mean, my sister and I had a number of years between us. We were never close. She was in a different space of her childhood than I was. My brother and I were very close.
Speaker: um He was a very quiet guy. I mean, he, you know, I think we all reacted to the loss. I mean, the double loss, right? It was just losing my father. it was losing my father and being stuck with my mother, right? Yeah.
Speaker: we all responded to that differently. And I think, you know, for him, he just, he became quieter and quieter and then ended up trying to self-medicate, uh, his pain away, which didn't work very well. And, you know, my sister did her thing. And for me, you know, I ended up just, uh, it was like throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what stuck, right? i I was just, I didn't know what love meant, what love was, what it looked like or what it really felt like.
Speaker: um So i did a lot of things that I thought was was love or someone caring about me, which really wasn't. I mean, it was a lot of physical relationships, um you know, at ah at a young age with, you know, yeah, it was just desperation really.
Speaker: but But when I found out um how my father died when I got the birth certificate the death certificate, I approached my mother about it, which was a pretty ballsy move on my part, right?
Speaker: As you were saying, then I remembered, I'm like, oh, wait, I did read, her mom was alive, because I remember when you did bring it up to her. I'm like, yeah, yeah so go ahead. No, I mean, that took, ah you know, I was away at school at the time. i was in upstate New York, and I remember taking the bus down and I'd plan like this is, I'm going to talk to her about it. And I'd make an excuse for coming down for the weekend. And then I'd chicken out, wouldn't do it. And then finally I did. And I confronted her on it and she just went crazy. I mean, she started beating me with an umbrella screaming, how dare you? It's none of your business. I wanted to go to the grave with this. You know, it's none of your business.
Speaker: It's like, how could it not be my business? It was my father, you know? So that didn't go too well, but. Yeah, it's these um underlying
Speaker: generational things. like you write There are a lot of kind of different stories sometimes and secrets already that are kept also in Families, was it, hold on, is it in your book? Because I read two at the same time. was reading two books at the same time. So I'm like, wait, I'm like, wait, is it in your book? Something regarding your grandmother speaking in German? Was that yours? Yes. Okay. Okay. yeah So things like that, like all of a sudden you're like, wait,
Speaker: We never knew her grandmother knew German, like, you know, things like that, that you're like, how? So if secrets are already what somebody's been born in, like your mom and that type of um ah um of environment, right? it And continuing that same trace in her own family. And then all of a sudden...
Speaker: This child of six years old experiences this trauma of a death of a father and you are breaking that like with a bang of this continue you know of the cycle of secrets with your own life and then now with a memoir. How does that feel to be like they say a cycle breaker per se?
Speaker: i think I think it's really important to do that. I think I feel, you know, it took me a while to get to the place where i i ah
Speaker: it's funny. um My father, I always wished when i after I found out that he had just gotten on a plane, gone to San Francisco, started a new life, like that he had just walked out and figured it out. And I was never angry with him.
Speaker: um My mother, I was angry with how she treated us for a very long time. But someone said to me how ah they were angry with my father. i think it's in the book. um Because he knew he was leaving us with her.
Speaker: And I thought about that a lot after that was said. And I recognized where that was coming from and and and the truth in it. So it took me a while to get to the point where even having recognized for many years that they both suffered from, you know, mental health issues, depression, narcissism, ah personality disorders, a whole host of things, you know, there's un- disgust You know, untreated grief and addiction and you name it, it was there.
Speaker: um It still took me a while to get to the point where I could forgive them, right? And I could look at my mother and say to myself, ah this is a human being, which is why I ended up taking care of her when she was older. This is a human being who would never have chosen to live a life like hers.
Speaker: Right. So whatever demons she had in her head, whatever fears and guilt that she had in her head, she was living in that. And that must have been horrific for her. So while it doesn't excuse how we were brought up, um it does explain it.
Speaker: And i think that. For me, um looking at it, writing was super therapeutic for me.
Speaker: i didn't set out to write a book. I started writing just to kind of get stuff out of me, and it really did feel like I was purging ah not just feelings but memories from me um and getting you know some therapy. I mean, it's really unfortunate that certainly... in that era, people were not, ah didn't have access, didn't have knowledge, didn't feel comfortable getting mental health help.
Speaker: um So I think I'm um happy that I have. And, ah you know, I'm trying to be more open and I'm trying to have a different relationship with my children than my mother did with me.
Speaker: so Yeah, no, it's like at six you didn't have any acknowledgement of your grief, then in college you find out your dad's, you know, reason of dying. you How did you, of what you can remember between the ages of six and then, you know, your college age, what did you do for yourself, like intuitively?
Speaker: for your grief that you can remember? Because I think a lot of times we have certain things that we do intuitively, whether that is writing, reading, you mentioned your love root books, reading, dancing, whatever, that it's a way of processing. What do you recall you might have done intuitively? You know, that's... the ah I don't know. i i don't think I dealt with it at all for a very long time. I mean, I think what I was most focused on from...
Speaker: age six to college was getting out of where I was, right? One the first memories post to my father's death is I don't want to be here. I do not want to be here. I do not want to be here where I am, where I found myself. And as time went on, you know, you realize, well, how do how do I get out of here, right?
Speaker: Combined with my mother having cut me loose, right? So I'm on my own, um So I feel like I always had a plan. how do I get out of here? And how I got out of there was education. it was the only thing I knew. We didn't have money. It wasn't like I could, you know.
Speaker: do something like that. So I figured, all right, I was smart. I did well in school, that I'd have to keep doing that, go to college, get a job, and move on with my life. That was my plan in my head. That was my goal.
Speaker: um And that i ah in in reading, i knew families weren't all like mine. i knew that there were you know relationships and closeness. And I read about it all. I didn't know how to do it.
Speaker: But I read about it all, so I knew that it was out there. I think for the first, um certainly into my 20s, I was so focused on um taking care of myself that I really developed a really strong shell around myself.
Speaker: I was capable. i could i could take care of myself. I wasn't afraid of much. um You know, I was strong, and I... appeared like that. And that helped me in school. It helped me get jobs. It helped me in my working on Wall Street. um But the grief never really got addressed. And I think the grief finally got addressed when I had a confluence of events regarding ah how I was regarded as a woman, right? My boss making this incredibly inappropriate offer to me. Which is how you started your book. and that Right. Indecent proposal. Yeah. and And like another relationship that I really thought was love. Like,
Speaker: being made of apparent that no, that's really not what it was, you know, um that that forced me to start doing some work and dealing with the grief that I had never really dealt with. And understanding that the shell that I had created around myself was very effective for certain things, but not really good for letting people in and, you know, feeling things and being vulnerable. I mean, it kind of preempted all of that. So I really had a lot of work to do on that, but that didn't start till later.
Speaker: the The part that you were in this, I'm going to say it like in a very, well, especially in the, was this 90s or 80s that you were in? eighty s and 90s. 80s and 90s, right? Very, let's say, my male dominated kind of space. Do you feel that that was also like in a way of seeking, I think you mentioned a little bit, like you kind of were seeking that male figure, but you getting into that space had anything to do with Seeking that word of the dad that was your da-da that was not there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I really, at the time, certainly didn't think about it like that. But in hindsight, it's been pointed out to me that I kept getting into male jobs. And yeah, I think it makes some sense. I think, too, the fact that I was pretty fearless and gutsy that...
Speaker: it I, it you know, take care of myself. I felt like I really had to take care of myself and that pushed me to do, um, to do bigger things than I may have without that background.
Speaker: Um, yeah, I, I think I definitely look for my father in a lot of places and, ah That wasn't how I was going to find him. I think too, maybe part of it was just the difficulty in the relationship with my mother, that that made female relationships that much harder for me to understand, that I didn't know i didn't know what made that tick. I didn't know how to do that really.
Speaker: So I think it was combination of both both things. Now, at what point do you feel that you actually... did start kind of on it. Cause there's female, that there's certain aunts that you mentioned in your, that are both on both sides, right? That you mentioned on your mom's side, forget the name. Joan. Joan was one and then the other one on your dad's side. yeah So there are these other females that they like, did you ever feel any of them
Speaker: could be what you were seeking for in your mom. Were any of these you know ladies in that kind of generation ever feel a little bit of that? I know how special you felt, at least in that, when your aunt let you play the piano. The piano. But things like, but were there other places in which you actually felt seen by a woman, like really seen?
Speaker: ah No. I mean, my father's sister with the piano, that we' we'd see her you know, scheduled times, but not, there was no really closeness at all. I'm, and she passed away when I was probably 12 or 13. Um, my aunt Joan was my mother's sister, very different than her eight years younger.
Speaker: I admired her a lot. She, she was emotional. She said what she thought she was a little bit crazy. um She was one of the things that gave me hope.
Speaker: She was always single, never married. She worked. I saw in her possibilities for the world. But one of my siblings and myself had lunch with years later, many years later. And this is in the book. We're chatting about my mother and alluding to just bad butt jokes.
Speaker: in the scheme of things, pretty innocuous memories and things that my mother would do. And ah my aunt was shocked and almost crying. She was so apologetic. And she said she had no idea that our life was like that. She had no idea.
Speaker: and which was the first time that I realized that maybe people didn't know what was going on because nobody seemed to care. So I think that, um you know, had things been different, she would have been someone who would have stepped in, but nobody stepped in.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, that brings a whole other meaning to the title of your book, House of Pretend, because that really was a house of pretend if your own... My aunt didn't even see that that was really what you were living in.
Speaker: Yeah, no, we pretended well. I mean, my mother was um my mother was someone who, you know, narcissists and, you know, we think she had borderline personality disorder. And she she was a very adept actor where if you met her, she was very smart.
Speaker: She could be charming. She could be funny. Yeah. But it was a facade. ish There was no real reality to it. You know, she'd come back in the apartment and it would be snide comments about whoever it was she was just chatting charmingly with.
Speaker: Um... You know, she was very much a gaslighter. She'd swear things never happened that happened. Sounds familiar these days, doesn't it? She'd swear things happened that never did. And, you know, fortunately, I had siblings to check the reality because at some points you're thinking,
Speaker: You're losing your mind, right? that You're crazy. And fortunately, I had some validation. um but no, no, really the people, the people that gave me a chance that I felt like really helped me we were phenomenal.
Speaker: were two men, actually. It was my eighth grade teacher that I mentioned who who saw me and who said to me, you know you basically, you're really smart and you can do whatever you want to do. And no one had ever you know really noticed me. or That meant so much to me. And I ran into this guy years later and told him this.
Speaker: And ah my first really good job, which was with this French company and you know I bluffed my way into this job. And when he called me on my bluff, he still hired me and he gave me a shot at really becoming somebody.
Speaker: And he's a man who ah decades later, i reached out to him. I found his email and he's in his 80s then. And I told him what he had done for me in my life.
Speaker: And I felt so good to be able to have that opportunity to let him know that. So yeah, no women, not so much, but the men, yes. men So you were able to find, yeah, other mens men that were able to step in and really show you your worth, which is how you felt with your dad. You did feel seen with him. So you were able to feel seen again later on. Because yeah, it's it's interesting how these things. Okay, let's do U-turn now and talk more about You mentioned your book was originally going to be just for you to just process your grief. So then when did you realize, wait, I'm writing this.
Speaker: Am i going to be the only one reading this? And when did you decide that more eyes were going to be on these pages? I had, ah you know, i I started writing just for myself, right? As I said, to make myself feel a little less burdened by it. And then I went to, I liked the act of writing. I found it it, it made me happy. It pleased me to put stuff down on paper. So I signed up for like a writer's workshop where they give you prompts and you do prompts. And that made me, it was good because it it makes you think about just everyday things and and memories. So you know, or with some of that.
Speaker: And it was during COVID. I saw some ad for a writer's conference up in Cape Cod and it sounded great. And I thought, you know, we're all going stir crazy.
Speaker: And I applied to it, sent in a sample, and I got accepted. And I called him up and I said, yeah, you know, not really a writer. like sounds like this is a for people who are more advanced and more forward in their writing process. I said, I really just started writing stuff, so maybe I'll wait a year. Yeah.
Speaker: And they they called me up. And one of the people that I i acknowledge in my book as ah as a thank you was the man who who set this up and coordinated. He called me and he said, I'm the one who read your samples and I think you should come. And that for me really changed it because i you know you're around other people who are writing and most of them, as I said, had written way more than I had and were more advanced in the process.
Speaker: And I liked it and I felt good about it. I came back and I signed up for a A program at Grub Street, it's a writing place out of Boston. ah Had again, it was still COVID, so I could do it because it was Zoom.
Speaker: And that was a very big impetus for me. It was workshopping where you get critiqued and it's not always easy to hear, but it made you work. And that really set me on the path to where I thought, okay, this this is going to be a book. I can do a book, you know.
Speaker: So here we have it. Many reiterations later, many edits and cuts and moving stuff around later. Here I am. And it's hard because even once it's out, you're like, maybe this one does. Right? I'm sure. you. I wish I could have another edit, actually. Well, there's a lot of times that people, don't they end up doing another edition and another edition? And in those editions, they're like, actually, I've now added these new challenges. I'm listening to a book right now. And it was like, this one, we've added some chapters and taken that, you know, because it's like a newer re-edition of it.
Speaker: ah So, yeah, it's hard because the story is still unfolding. And in that, because your life is still unfolding. When it's a memoir, yes, that is what is what you recall. These are the memories that you had. These are the experiences you had. And then...
Speaker: The story continues, right? There's still, yeah right? and the But you have to, you have to like a memoir, you know, you you can have many memoirs over the Christmas. You have to limit it to what that theme is and what that what that period is and end it there. I mean, my life has gone on and a lot has changed and a lot. But that is is not in there at all and you know won't be. Right. Yeah. That was that particular chapter, that theme again of that relationship. Yeah. So then it's like, okay, part two of the memoir, what other learnings are coming then for Joan? Have you ever thought of novel writing or has it always been mainly things that are real like and or intertwining it with
Speaker: It's funny you ask that because when I, the first editor i so I sent my work to, who was, you know, going to take a look at it for editing because that's what you do. And she, ah her first email, she was talking about my novel. She said something about my novel and I called her said, it's not a novel, it's a memoir. And she said, oh my God. She said like, that's a huge compliment I'm giving you because it reads like a novel. Um, so she said, she said to me, you should think about writing a novel when you're done with the memoir. Cause you can write like a novel.
Speaker: Um, so yeah, I, you know, I have some ideas. I think I just need to get through this first, um, and then sit back down, but yeah. How do you, how do you kind of, um, remove yourself a little bit of the both the praise and the criticism, critiques that may come once. Because you said you've done the Writers Workshop, so you've gotten critiques then as you were writing. But once you've already published, if you hear anything back, how are you able to kind of let go and cleanse of that and at the same time, not also let your ego get too big you when there's praise?
Speaker: How do you balance that? ah I think the the the fear of ah i think the fear of failure or the the fear of it not being good enough is in my yeah oh is the overriding feeling certainly that I experience. And you know I know I said to the publisher, can I have one last letter? And they're like, just calm down. Everybody feels like this. you know It's going to be okay. and We've read it. It's okay. um But I have had a couple of authors that have
Speaker: had a couple of books out there already who have said to me, do not read the reviews. Just don't read them. because and And I get it. You're sort of tempted to, right?
Speaker: But I feel like here's the reality of it. I've written a book. The book is being published. You may like it. You may not. It doesn't change anything. I am still me, and this is still a fact. So I hope people like it.
Speaker: I hope, as I say, maybe someone will feel better reading it, you know, will feel hope, will realize that they can have, they can be resilient, that they can get through this, whatever grief they've suffered, a loss they've suffered and come out in one piece.
Speaker: That's what I hope. But I'm trying to be, ah you know, it is It is what it will be. And I am still who I am. And people are either going to like it or like me or not. And you can't make everybody happy. So I'm trying to be rational about it.
Speaker: We'll see how that goes. i love that. No, it's so funny because even like when I would edit, when I first started this and I would edit the podcast, I would be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I, I i would, but of myself, I was like, oh i I interrupted there. i didn't, oh my I spoke too much. I'm like, I should have not like all these and then trying to, so I made it, I really had to, when I go and would go on, like just an edit, I would be like, okay, I'm just going on, just choosing what it is, like very mindful of why it is. I'm really listening to what i yes just talked about. And then,
Speaker: focus on because if not, I literally would be like a soliloquy on here and a monologue of the guest if it wasn't because of, um, yeah, my, my own critical side. So yeah I can relate in that way. Cause I have yet to write a book, but I could see how you really have to kind of release yourself from the expectations of what others are going to say. Cause it is, you really aren't going to it's art too, right? It's, When you put and something out there, you don't know how people are going to receive it because it's, there you know, you don't know. But this is not only art, this is your story. And so it's very vulnerable. It's interesting. Yes, yes. I think the story itself, right? The fact that I've written some very personal, very ah private, vulnerable things,
Speaker: doesn't bother me as much as the book. Like, will they like the book? You know? So, which is interesting. i I am me and that is me and that is what happened to me and how I behaved. And if that bothers you or makes you think differently of me, that's on you.
Speaker: I'm still me. So that that's, it's interesting because that's not really what I'm struggling with. I'm struggling more with just the concept. Do I have a Do I have a book that they'll like? is i As I said, I started in the in that year of that chapter, should I have started there? And then the back, you know, the prequel part of it in the memoir, should I have started there? i Right, right. Did I go on too long about something, you know? Yeah. Should I have done a different cover, a different title? but Oh, that's so many things. Oh my gosh. The title is one of the few things I was absolutely certain would work and would be good. So that was the title I was pretty you know set on. Love it. Okay. So you really like changed your life because you've been in Wall Street. You've been, you you're a landscape designer. Yes. Right. So a lot of, like you said, studying was the place where you would do. Now you are an author.
Speaker: What are some of these things that you are still like thirsty to want to continue learning and taking on? Because it sounds like it's not, it's still going. Like it's still going. So I want to know what is the thirst and where is, what what is the next learning opportunity? Oh, and you know French, here all these different things. I'm trying to learn the Spanish. So I kind of started and... well it was go beoicated i'm no in this I can understand you, but I actually just got a text from my old Spanish teacher who was wonderful saying, hey, we're starting this thing in the summer. So I really need to pick that back up again. um i just did a big hiking trick and trip in Sicily with a friend. i think that, ah you know, the the novel idea, there's just so many things to do There are so many ah things to learn. i just, you know, life's great. I mean, there's a lot to do. so
Speaker: I love that phrase that you just said, there are that is life is great. And this is coming from woman who was a a hurt child that had a really hard upbringing and lot of grief. And yet right now you can- Life is great. You can say this statement with certainty amidst the fact that you had very hard, life-changing moments in your life, so much grief.
Speaker: It is just so beautiful to hear that statement. Thank you. Because it changes everything. Yeah, it's beautiful to be able to feel it.
Speaker: And to be able to just share that type of sentiment now with the ones around you and your your life. So how how is Joanne as a mother and how has your own a bringing of that changed the way that you now mother?
Speaker: I, oh, wow. I mean, that's, probably get my kids on. I think, you know, when I first had, I didn't want to have kids initially because I was afraid. i didn't want to visit on them, you know, it was visited on me. So I was really hesitant. um Best thing I've done was having the kids. My kids are great. They're great human beings. They're You know, they're they're ah young adults.
Speaker: um I absolutely love them and would love them as people if they weren't my kids. um But, you know, I struggled as a parent. I knew what not to do. i knew, you know, don't pack a suitcase and start leaving as your kid's hanging onto your ankle begging you not to go, right? I knew...
Speaker: I think I overdid probably, as my kids say, you don't have to keep telling us you love us. Overcompensating. We know you love me. Overcompensating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Overcompensating for what you didn't get. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, parenting is hard. Parenting is hard. So I definitely, I tried what I thought was my best with the knowledge I had at the time. That's my disclaimer on parenting. That's what I tell my kids all the time. I'm like, I've never parented.
Speaker: i will And even as I'm parenting them, I'm like, I've never parented a boy at this age yet. you're Exactly. It's not boy and girl. So I'm like, same. you're might yeah You're the first time I'm parenting a child at this age. You're the first time I'm parenting. So I just, yeah, it's the same. You're the first time you are that age.
Speaker: And makes so you're navigating your own life as well. So we're all in this. We're yeah learning as we go. yeah and how Tell us about then that. part of then having the that chapter of now, well, ah in your life of then, you mentioned you took care of your mom.
Speaker: How did you find it in your own self to have that gift, give her that gift of caretaking? Yeah. I think, you know as I said, as you know as i as my life progressed and I aged, right, and I had my own family and my own challenges just within my nuclear family, and you realize here I am blessed with more more help, mental help, more ah ah husband, you know, a more stable situation um and not the mental health challenges that she had.
Speaker: You know, you recognize how hard how difficult her life was and how awful it must've been for her. Again, not excusing how we were treated, but you know, that she was a human being. She messed up. I've messed up.
Speaker: We've all messed up. She was older. She started showing signs of dementia. um So you take care of her, right? I mean, you take care of her. And she ah went into a,
Speaker: into a really lovely facility. And I don't know if you read the part where she acknowledges a must. So heaven she had dementia she, you know, what I don't know that it's improved at all, but they generally put patients on a variety, a cocktail of, of medications to see what works, right. To see if it helps clarity.
Speaker: And I was visiting her. She was up by me. And I was visiting her, you know, my usual visits. And I was doing my usual monologue of what was happening in the news because she really didn't talk much.
Speaker: And she all of a sudden turned to me and said, I'm so sorry. It could have been so different. And i almost fell off the chair. I mean, I just thought,
Speaker: you know Are you kidding me? I've been waiting hear this for 40 years. you know And I think ah that was really interesting for me to to to recognize that there was a part of her in the depths of her mind that understood how you know how bad it was. But yeah, so she was she was there for a number of years and then she passed away. She passed away about 13 years ago.
Speaker: yeah it's been Yeah, it's been a little while. So then now in your life, your whole family is really your nucleus family now at this moment. this is what Myself, my two kids. your Yeah, your yeah that's that's your this is your family now. And it's yeah um it's interesting when chapters kind of just start ending and making peace with that as well. Some by...
Speaker: Yeah. Circumstances that, you know, in in your case with your dad dying young, your brother, and so yeah your mom. the I want to now, as we're kind of wrapping up, want to talk about how can people...
Speaker: get the book by the time this airs, I mean, it's already been out for a little while. So what is the best way for them to get the book that you would want them to buy it Because of course there's lots of different venues but of how people can get a book, but what would be the best and how can people connect with you if they want to hear more?
Speaker: ah Sure. the book um The book comes out May 19th is the publication date, and it's available anywhere you can buy books. So Barnes & Noble, your local bookstore can get it through Simon & Schuster. They distribute the book. Amazon, of course, has the book. um So it's available anywhere.
Speaker: And I have a website, Joanne Redding Author, so they could contact me through that. i have Instagram. It's Joanne underscore Redding and Facebook.
Speaker: for older people like myself. um So yeah, anyway, and if people reach out to me and they just want to talk or have some questions or whatever, happy to engage. you know I think it's at sometimes, you know it's easier to talk to somebody who you don't know, right? Than somebody close to you when you're struggling with some of this stuff. So I'm here.
Speaker: Yeah, especially because you've already shared your part. So they're like, oh my gosh, I know that I can now share. Because you've already, in your book, you share so much about your own life that then people can feel like, okay, this little piece of something she may really relate to since she's gone through something similar.
Speaker: No shame in any of it. I mean, it's life. Life. maid's Life. It's life. I always like to make sure that I give the guests an opportunity to share something that I might have not asked. So is there something else you want to make sure to leave with the audience before we close up?
Speaker: I think if I can, um I think a couple things that just are important when you're struggling is is as lonely as you feel and as as hard as it may be, just reach out to someone, to anyone, you know? And I think the opposite, I always wonder what people thought who looked at us as kids, right? And we appeared to be okay.
Speaker: But someone must have sensed something was off and just didn't say anything and didn't pick up the phone and didn't Didn't make a move. And, you know, if you see a kid and you think there's something, i ask them, like say something, because kids are really vulnerable and they they may need your help. So step up.
Speaker: I love it because you know somebody listening to this may have had a recent experience with their own children having navigated what you went through, you know, some years back.
Speaker: And now it's as an adult sharing that for someone listening, not only if by chance you're the parent of a child that just experienced the death of their other parent, or If you are just a family member or friend of someone that you see, just be aware that children do need to be seen in their grief as well and acknowledge that grief as well. Don't don't forget that. And it may it that may not show up the same way as we...
Speaker: adults may show it. So just be be aware. So thank you, Joanne. And let's hug little Joanne too. This one's for you as a grown Joanne and then for a hug for six-year-old Joanne as well. We both appreciate that. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker: This was great. Thank you. Thank you, Joanne.
Speaker: thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
Speaker: If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who who may need to hear this, please do so.
Speaker: Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
Speaker: And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.
