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Her Media Diary Episode 2: Ruona Meyers
12 Plays4 years ago
In this episode with Emmy-nominated journalist, Ruona J. Meyer, we discuss investigative journalism, how to pitch yourself and your stories, and making use of the platforms available to you. Her undercover investigation ‘Sweet, Sweet Codeine’ highlighted the plight of young Nigerians addicted to codeine syrup. Less that 24 hours of broadcasting Sweet, Sweet Codeine, the import and manufacture of codeine-based syrup was banned by the Nigerian government. In 2019, Ruona became the first Nigerian journalist to be nominated for an International Emmy Award.
Interviewing Ruona was insightful, fun and real. Her journey is testimony to the consequences of hard-work and dedication. Follow her on Twitter @RGAMeyer
Yemisi
Links mentions
Centre for Investigative Journalism
Wole Soyinka Investigative Journalism Centre
About Ruona J. Meyer
Ruona Meyer is an Emmy-nominated, multimedia journalist with 17 years’ experience in print, radio, wire agency, TV and digital outlets across Nigeria, South Africa, and the UK. Ruona is currently a PhD candidate at De Montfort University, Leicester, UK; her research covers the impact of digital technologies on investigative journalism production within African-Diaspora networks.
Ruona’s investigative documentary Sweet Sweet Codeine gave Nigeria and the BBC World Service its first Emmy nomination (2019), and won the ONE World Media Television Documentary Award category as well as The BBC News Award for Investigation of the Year in June 2019. A training consultant, Ruona has designed and delivered courses for postgraduate students and working journalists in the UK, Nigeria and Ghana.
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Transcript
Introduction to Werner Meyer
00:00:00
Speaker
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you shouldn't apply yourself to something because that might stand in the way of what you like. Let's start by you introducing yourself.
Werner's Freelance Journey
00:00:16
Speaker
My name is Werner Meyer.
00:00:19
Speaker
and I'm a journalist. I like to say multimedia journalist, just to point out that I have all the skills. I need to be quiet nowadays, isn't it, for example? Yeah, you can't escape it. Like, I tried. I really, really, really tried. But you can't escape it. So I'm a multimedia journalist.
BBC Fusion Experience
00:00:39
Speaker
I've worked for a bit in Nigeria, South Africa, London, and now in Germany.
00:00:45
Speaker
mainly freelance. And my last job was with the BBC's Fusion Service, where I was part of the team that set that up in our journey. Yeah, we're going to unpack all of those in just a moment.
Ruona's Early Life and Education
00:00:58
Speaker
So first of all, I'm going to take us back to the early years of Ruona's life. You know, how do you... Oh, God. Tell us where you grew up. Give us some context. Let us know a bit about you.
00:01:12
Speaker
I was actually born in Benin city because my father was working as a journalist there. But my earliest memory is us in this moving van, moving to Lagos. I grew up in Lagos on the mainland with not even, you know, nothing like a silver spoon. I'd say wooden spoon.
00:01:34
Speaker
Growing up was fun. I mean, it's not as if we didn't have food to eat. We had, you know, enough to eat. But one thing that struck me was we went to the best schools. You know, my brothers went to King's College. I was in FGC, Shagamu. But after that, you know, education was the main thing. My father and mom spent everything on. It was a very good childhood. So we had nothing to do but to read books until 4 p.m.
00:02:01
Speaker
when NTA would come on, national TV would come on. And to this day, I'm not a fan of TV. Really?
Inspiration and Challenges in Journalism
00:02:11
Speaker
How come? You'd be surprised. I only watch TV because the news is on there, so I have to watch it because I'm a journalist. But outside of that, the media I consume most of the time is actually targeted. I really like true crime.
00:02:28
Speaker
I think part of why I became a journalist was also because I was very interested in true stories. I hardly used to watch just films for the heck of it. I used to watch things that were true. So Godfather, for instance, because I knew that there was something called the Mafia and I would watch it with my dad and ask him questions. So I don't waste my time on media or books or anything unless I actually really want it or I want to enjoy it.
00:02:55
Speaker
So picking up on your dad, you've mentioned your dad quite a few times. I hear he was instrumental in you getting into journalism. Tell us about that. He was. So my father was a journalist. He very poorly played one. He very in material terms only on successful one.
00:03:12
Speaker
so but that was a sign of the times journalism was not what it is today so a lot of them were not paid properly a lot of them were not paid on time so as well i knew he enjoyed the job because it was all he could talk about i mean as a kid he would sit with me and we would point out all the errors in newspapers i think my father tried this with every single child he had but none of them took the bait i really want who caught on because
00:03:40
Speaker
A lot of the things my father would talk about, all my siblings, elder and younger, they would just think, oh, this guy's boring. But I found it fascinating. So we used to talk a lot. And by the time I was 10, I told my father I wanted to be a journalist. I was about to, I was just entering secondary school, which is high school. It was the Rago Mengele College, Shagamo.
00:04:04
Speaker
And I said, oh, I want to be a journalist. And he said, no, you cannot be a journalist. I don't want you to suffer. And by this time, my father was always getting arrested, incarcerated by military regimes. And he said, it's not worth it. You wouldn't even get money if anything happens to you. Your family wouldn't even know. And I was still like, yeah, but so what am I
Ruona's Early Career and Family Impact
00:04:29
Speaker
going to be then? He said, oh, you should be a doctor or a lawyer. That's, you know.
00:04:34
Speaker
you know matter of fact here and you know as Africans you know you go like okay all right yeah my parents said it i'm going to do it i mean this was early 90s so i did try how of interest what's your father's name you said he's a journalist so some listeners might have heard of him they might have um his name was Godwin and Broko
00:04:59
Speaker
And he had worked in particularly every newspaper house in Lagos. It ended his career in this day. It was called short though. He was assassinated on the job. But anyway, to go back. So he said, you're better off financially if you're that. And I said, okay. And I tried, you know, I enrolled in the sciences. Of course, I flunked my old levels. So I had to repeat it. And I ended up in the University of Lagos doing microbiology.
00:05:28
Speaker
Of all things. Of all things. I mean, of all things. Do you know how difficult it is to actually be in the sciences when all you want to do is drop the test tube and go out and write about a story or interview someone? It was very hard. I tried. I did try. But at some point, I had this little book. So I say writing things inside this. And then my father saw the book. And he was like, oh, can you lend it to me? I'm like, OK, all right.
00:05:58
Speaker
I have the book, by the way. Some of it is still in half. Yeah, I still have it. I still keep it. It's done in half, but you know, it's still together somewhere. Brown pages. And he said, could you give it to him? I said, well, OK, I want to read it.
00:06:17
Speaker
And then he came back a few weeks later and was like, so he was like, I showed this uncle this, uncle that, uncle that, uncle this. And they all love it. It's going to be published as a column. Wow. How did you feel when he was there? I was afraid. And I don't know why I was afraid.
00:06:39
Speaker
But I think about a decade later, I now knew why I was afraid. I think I was afraid because I knew that I was never going to go back to the sciences from that day on. But then I thought I was afraid because I, dad, and I asked him, I said, you said I shouldn't be a journalist. What are you doing? And he said, well, I think there's something there. I think you have it in you.
00:07:06
Speaker
but I don't want to be the one you know I was thinking maybe I was feeling you have it in you because I'm your dad so sorry but you know I cancelled your name on the front of it so that they wouldn't know and I just gave it to people to read I didn't tell them it was you so I said if every single person feels like that
00:07:27
Speaker
I don't think I want to stop you. So my first article came out on June 12, 2003. When I saw it, you know, my picture was there, my name was there. So people started asking me, oh, would you like to help me interview this person? Would you? It wasn't about the money because God knows I didn't get a lot of money.
00:07:48
Speaker
Well, I actually started leaving school, leaving my lectures in the University of Lagos. I'm going to do journalism work. I was actually leaving. I was leaving school. I'm not ashamed to say I was skipping school to go and do interviews. No, my father did not know. Because that's what you loved. Yeah, that's what I loved. My father did not know. He had no idea.
00:08:13
Speaker
my friends will help me do my assignments when they could. But of course I started failing. And after about a year of doing this, I went to the mass communication department.
00:08:28
Speaker
to speak to somebody there because I wanted to transfer. I think everything there went in the days because to this day I can't lie. I don't have a very good recollection of those times. I think my mind wants to block it, but let me try and remember. So I go to the department. I was told my grade point average was too small because I wasn't trying. I'm not even going to lie about it. I wasn't putting any effort in my studies.
00:08:57
Speaker
I was told it was too, I couldn't make the move. I couldn't transfer to mass communication. And that was my first lesson. I learned that just because you don't like something doesn't mean you shouldn't apply yourself to something because that might stand in the way of what you like. So I couldn't do it. So I got to my course of advice.
00:09:23
Speaker
And my course advisor says, what do you expect me to do? You are the lazy ones who don't come to class. You don't care. You, I hardly see you in class, blah, blah, blah. And I'm trying to explain to him that look, this is why you don't see me in class. It's not as if I'm busy going about sleeping with men as you are implying. I'm actually trying to, you know, do something that is my passion. He wouldn't even let me get to the genesis of this matter. He basically threw me out.
00:09:53
Speaker
And that is the day, MSC, I decided I was going to drop out.
Impact of Father's Assassination
00:10:00
Speaker
What year? This is 2004, 2005. Okay. So I'm well over a year into my career. Getting on to the second, third year.
00:10:14
Speaker
And I'm, you know, I'm lying to my parents. They think I'm in school. Oh, so they still think you're in school at this stage. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They think I'm in school. You know, they actually think I'm in school, you know, doing microbiology, you know, and everything. And my father actually thinks I'm managing my career very well, doing both. At this stage, my father has had made his peace with it. You know, I'm getting to the second, third year of my career. And he was like,
00:10:45
Speaker
I'm so happy we had that discussion before he died. At this stage he was like, I can really see that you are a journalist and you want to be one, you enjoy it, just finish the microbiology and you can do whatever you want. I did it successfully until 2006, the end of 2006 when my father died. He died three days to Christmas. He was shot on his way back from work.
00:11:15
Speaker
Tell us a little bit about that, if you don't mind, about the circumstances around. I don't mind. I don't mind mainly because we still haven't found his killers. So every opportunity I can, I take to say there's journalists that are killed and
00:11:33
Speaker
Nigeria and elsewhere especially in Africa and nobody seems to be trying to find their killers. So my father had this column where he would say what he felt about what was going on and it was very very harsh in his true fashion. My father was never an easy man and he had a lot of enemies. So from time to time he would get called by security agencies
00:11:58
Speaker
we did feel we were followed about from time to time. My father would always say he would just turn and approach whoever he thought was following me. Why are you following me? And really, on two occasions that I was at wealth, these people just ran off. I mean, they weren't even going to rob us. They just ran off. Part of it too started mounting up into a bit of paranoia. But my father still went to work.
00:12:26
Speaker
You know, he still stayed at work. I don't understand why. Yeah, but how did you, that atmosphere of fear and, you know, living in that, you know, paranoid, well, justified paranoia, how did that shape your family home? And you as a person entering journalism as well. It just made me have a very strong middle finger. Because you see, we have been going through it from when I was in secondary school.
00:12:55
Speaker
They actually, my father would be arrested. We wouldn't see him. So he would prepare us. Like this can be the end. And you know, we had those conversations and we had gotten over it by the time it was killed. We had had those conversations where, why do you keep doing this job? And my father said, this is the only thing I can do to save our country. Why can't someone else do it that he's like, why not me? Why not you?
00:13:25
Speaker
So we had already had these conversations. You know, since I was 13, you know, by the time he died, I was already in my 20s. So I think we sort of dumbed ourselves down to it. When you look at it, isn't that what every family in Nigeria has to do? So that day, in fact, it was just like an ordinary day. My father gets up.
00:13:50
Speaker
goes to work he of course he checks in with me I actually told him oh I have this um there's this event I'm covering at the embassy at some embassy and they say this is dress code what does that mean and he tells me what it means you should wear this and you should wear that I'm like oh why don't we have this he's like okay I'll send you some money you should go and get this and everything that's type of that he was and then we keep waiting waiting his dinner is there until one of his colleagues calls us and says
00:14:20
Speaker
What are you guys doing? We're like, oh, nothing. We're not really doing anything. We're just waiting, you know. Dad said you'll come. We'll leave for the guy to tell us he's not coming back home, Rona. And the early days, following his death, how was that on your family and you? Was there any moment where you kind of changed your mind about... Yes.
Struggles and Return to Education
00:14:45
Speaker
Actually changed my mind about Nigeria at that point because the first thing the police sold us then was that we should we would have to pay for a Ballistics test to determine what type of bullet shot him Wow, and I said over my dead body. We're not doing that. We're not paying a dime Yeah The
00:15:11
Speaker
I lost faith in journalists as well because there were people who we knew that were owing my dad and they refused to pay. Yeah, they refused to pay. Even the report had about my father's death was made to look like a robbery. I will say one of the things that are up there
00:15:40
Speaker
And a lot of people who have heard this think it's very weird. But I will still maintain. One of the things that really got me upset was that there were typos of my father's obituary. Wow. Very disrespectful. I was so upset I cried for this. And people could not understand why that upset me. It's because of the type of money was
00:16:05
Speaker
You know, it was a perfectionist. So you said you kind of got a bit of delusions of journalism for a while. Yes. How long did it take you to find yourself back? It took you a while. First of all, my mom caught me that I had dropped out. Let's not forget what's supposed to be morning. Okay. And all this. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Microbiology. So my mom had been suspecting, bless her heart, she wasn't fooled.
00:16:30
Speaker
And so, while we're in the house, we can't leave the house because we're mourning and also because we're trying to be careful we don't get killed as well. So she sends people to Unilad. I didn't know and she asked and then they tell her, you know, that the last time I was in school was a semester ago. And I actually had two semesters left. So my mum told me that, look,
00:16:51
Speaker
So what your dad would have wanted, there was no way I could prove it because my dad was dead. And he did say I should finish. So for my mom's sake, because I didn't want to cause her more heartache, I went back to Unilac. The first day I got into Unilac, my classmates,
00:17:18
Speaker
was coming to register for her masters in microbiology. Wow. That's the second lesson I learnt. The race is not to the swiftest because guess what happened? I ran into my arms. Hey, what's up? How are you? She was like, oh, I'm very well.
00:17:40
Speaker
I'm, you know, coming to write this stuff for my masters. I was like, that's wonderful. I'm coming to pick up where I left off. You know, I could always make a joke out of anything. And so she laughed and she said, oh, forgive me. I said, no, it's fine. I've done what I need to do. By this time, I was sort of like established as a journalist. So she said, on what year was this? This was 2007. Late 2007. So she said,
00:18:09
Speaker
Oh, Luna, you know, I'm doing my, I'm doing this masters because I've tried to get a job after a youth service. It didn't work. Please, if you know anybody, I know you're connected. If you know anybody that can help you get a job. I was like, no, I'm not connected.
00:18:29
Speaker
I don't really know people. She's like, oh, come on. I saw you're working this, I saw you're working that. And so I reassured her, I said, trust me. I'm just like, I'm trying to, you know, I don't. But as soon as she left, that was lesson number two. If I'd had the mindset of, oh, what is me? I'm here and she has just done her masters.
00:19:00
Speaker
instead of, oh my god, Renee, you've really messed up. Look now, I had this amusement towards it, not sadness. But if I had allowed that sadness weighing me down, I wouldn't be able to be grateful for the fact that
00:19:18
Speaker
I was in a career that already that I liked. I was where I wanted to be professionally. I was on the path. I wasn't already big by any chance. But I was now doing what I wanted to do. She, on the other hand, appeared to be settling for the masters just because. So immediately I saw her. I said, OK, I can do this. I will do this for my mom.
00:19:48
Speaker
But after this, I'm not going back. Every single fiber of my being is going to be into journalism. Only for me to finish that day and go back home and be reminded that journalism ate my dad alive.
Banking Stint and Reaffirmation of Journalism
00:20:04
Speaker
So I decided to be a banker. How was that? Copyright communications.
00:20:13
Speaker
Yeah, how long were you in banking that industry for? Guess how long I lasted? I think about six months and that was it. I couldn't. Okay. I just could not. And so I thought of it. Did I go through all those struggles to now end up not doing what I love? No more. At this time, I had mates who from primary school, secondary school, university, who were making really horrible choices.
00:20:41
Speaker
So I said, okay, that's enough, you're an adult now, you need to go back. But picking up on you kind of changing a focus of career out of the circumstances that you found yourself, there's quite a lot of people in Nigeria and other countries that kind of find themselves in not quite the same, but similar situations where you have to
Advice for Aspiring Journalists
00:21:08
Speaker
kind of make that decision and you know some of our listeners might be in that situation right now where their first love is journalism but they're doing something else so what advice would you give them to give them that kind of strength and mindset to revisit their passion? You have to find a way you have to find a way and that way I'm not even going to sit here and tell you that that way is to drop out of school
00:21:35
Speaker
although temporarily as I did, even temporarily. No, don't do that. Because what I realized is this, if I had just plotted on and finished to the best of my ability on time, that would have given me more time to devote fully in the long run to journalism. Times are really different now. You don't have to have graduated to start contributing to things.
00:22:04
Speaker
So you have to find a way to get into journalism. If it's freelance, if it's writing for free, I would definitely say do it for free because they are also getting trained, because they are also honing your skills.
00:22:19
Speaker
What is not acceptable is to do nothing about it because that is where the unfortunate ones among us got it wrong. What I did was just say okay instead of me imploding, exploiting, suffering in silence I'm just going to go and do what I love and off I went. So if you're getting too choked up
00:22:43
Speaker
don't bother thinking you can suppress it. You can suppress it if that's what you are really meant to do. I mean only just today I was asked, I kind of regularly accept questions on LinkedIn and career advice on LinkedIn and some guy in the Middle East asked. I don't have any experience in journalism, I did an internship, I didn't get a job because I have no experience in journalism.
00:23:04
Speaker
What should I do? How do I start building a profile in journalism? So your stories back in the early 2000s where there was no kind of Facebook and blogging and things like that, given the tools that we have available to us now, think about Rona today. If you were Rona in the university today or recently graduated today, what tools, how would you advise
00:23:32
Speaker
somebody today who wants to get into journalism or perhaps somebody who already started to create another field but is not thinking how do I, where do I start?
Leveraging Background in Journalism
00:23:41
Speaker
How do I address them? First of all if you need to learn anything, learn it on YouTube.
00:23:47
Speaker
then start practicing, even how to write. Do it on YouTube, learn, and then the first thing you need to do that's free is your Facebook, your social media, do it on there. The second thing I would have done is try to go and get an internship.
00:24:02
Speaker
There are internships during holidays, during university holidays, during weekends. There are internships in TV, in radio stations right now, because a lot of my contemporaries, they regularly tweet about things their interns are doing and how they are doing it. There are a lot of learning programs as well. There are a lot of courses now. Now we have writer workshops. We have things that are free. You have to apply to these.
00:24:31
Speaker
How about somebody who is, I don't know, is a professional, perhaps in a field of marketing and branding or something like that, and their true passion was journalism? How do they make their way back before they created a career for themselves in that kind of corporate side of things? How do they claw their way back to journalism within kind of the tools that are available to us today in 2018? So you have to
00:24:57
Speaker
decide what type of product you are going to be supplying to the journalism market. Because it sounds harsh, but I think things are getting better for me when I start looking at myself as a commodity, when it comes to journalism. I just call myself journalists. To be honest, I see myself as a good and a service. Now, you look at yourself as that and you now decide what purpose am I supposed to be serving in the market?
00:25:25
Speaker
if you are somebody who's already doing marketing but you would rather be writing what exactly would you be writing about because everyone's not going to write about everything so if what you like to write about is about branding because that's what you read in school that's what you're interested in
00:25:47
Speaker
Then you go back. You try as much as possible on your own time to see what you can learn and start writing. When you write, you have to approach the type of publications you want to work with. I will say start small. The smaller places are where you actually learn more skills.
00:26:12
Speaker
The little understaffed papers where everybody has to do everything is where you're likely going to learn bottom up. You're going to have to humble yourself. So I can just imagine the people listening to your advice right now saying, but how am I going to pay my bills? What would you say to them? That's why it has to be your passion.
00:26:33
Speaker
That's the first thing. So it has to be in a field and in something that you can do for free. That being said, bills are real. I've had to sell kerosene. If you need to wash dishes while you're doing, washing your dream, until you get to the stage where you get your big brick, you have to do it. We've all done it.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think the truth is, I mean, no matter what your history, whether you're a lawyer or whatever, when you do actually start to write, that could actually be a beat. That could be your speciality. Exactly. Like Richard Quest from CNN. He's a lawyer. It's not surprising. He's able to start off with Quest means business because he sort of has that type of background and can understand certain concepts rather quickly.
Studies and Achievements in Journalism
00:27:26
Speaker
So you went on to do a master's at the Wits University in South Africa. How was that culturally, like the cultural differences between being a student in Nigeria, then going to South Africa to be a student of journalism? Did you practice while you were there? What was that like? I practiced while I was there. I actually worked with Reuters.
00:27:51
Speaker
in South Africa. So the way I got into South Africa was that I won this journalism competition by Reuters.
00:27:59
Speaker
based on all the work I've been doing. And this is where mentorship and female mentorship comes in. So I went back with Next newspaper. The only reason I went back to journalism in Nigeria was because Next was this cutting edge paper. They were really not about bribing anybody. In fact, in the next newsroom, I was the only ex-journalist they accepted.
00:28:27
Speaker
They wanted everybody fresh. So in 2008, when I got there, I was like, okay, these are new people. You know, they are on board. I'm on board with them. The spirit was really about, you know, making good journalism. So while I'm there, my editor, a female, Kadira, met. She's like, Rona, what plans do you have?
00:28:52
Speaker
I was like, what do you mean? I plan to go and sleep this evening. She was like, no silly. I really mean like, you know, I'm surprised that your first degree is microbiology.
00:29:03
Speaker
you've never studied journalism I said no not formally and she was like would you like to I said of course don't be like a dream come true I'm really trying to you know like get skills here come on and she was like oh I know of this opportunity you know then we didn't we didn't seriously have Facebook and all that I think I just joined Facebook there
00:29:24
Speaker
so she was like and she wasn't on Facebook so she was like okay I have an email somewhere I'll look for it I'll send it to you so when she's less busy a few days later she sends it to me and I apply you know and they all help me in the newsroom check my um check my application and everything and I got in out of thousands I was the only one I actually got in so I was supposed to study in South Africa and when I'm done
00:29:51
Speaker
So it's what they call a mid-career because by then I'd already crossed over five years, well over five years in journalism. I was in my sixth year doing like, okay, you are qualified to have a postgraduate degree in journalism because your years of work is already like, no. And then the first I got there, I couldn't understand anything anybody was saying. Oh no. The accent.
00:30:22
Speaker
oh my god i struggled through the first week then i called my mom crying i don't know if she said so what are you going to come back home and do sit down with me don't come home unless you succeed basically she said let's let's track back to the application to Reuters so because i'm showing off our listeners
00:30:45
Speaker
want to apply for such opportunities what tips would you give like for example where do you find such opportunities and when you're applying what are the things to bear in mind you the very first thing because i think this is why i got it i was myself i was myself and i said the truth
00:31:10
Speaker
I told in my application letter, so of course I put work I've done, you know, you put links to the work you've done. Now, I'm very sure there were other people that did better work than me. Very sure. Africa is so blessed. Yeah. But in my letter, and a lot of my, I think about two of my editors were like, Rona, are you sure you want to put this in? Just asking, are you sure? I said yes, because it's true. In my letter, I put in the fact that
00:31:39
Speaker
It wasn't just that I didn't have the money. I really did not have the money to go back to school for journalism. It was that I needed to make up for lost time and I wrote it there and I said
00:31:56
Speaker
you won't regret it because I'm the type of person that because of all the challenges I've had to face, there is nothing I will learn in journalism that I will not share with other people because I know there's thousands more like me. And so when they called me for the interview, it was a guy and he said, well, I'm quite curious.
00:32:21
Speaker
You said you dropped out. What happened? Do you mind sharing that story? It was the interviewer. And I said, okay, so this is what happened. And the interviewer said, I'm sorry, but this is so funny. And he starts laughing. I'm like, why are you laughing? He said, because I also left a degree, a science degree. But unlike you, Ron, I didn't go back and I don't regret it. So we laughed.
00:32:51
Speaker
I mean, it goes to show there's so many people like that who are on a path that's necessarily the one that they would have chosen for themselves. I think he could connect because they also focus on the fact that, are you very sure that you will share what you've learned? Because they were particular. They knew that they love other people, you know. And they said how and so I told them, you know,
00:33:16
Speaker
I intend to actually go back home, share everything that I can as much as possible. And I got in. Do you have any favourite platforms where you seek out opportunities for grants?
Applying to BBC Pigeon Service
00:33:32
Speaker
Oh yeah, I do. Do you mind sharing it with us?
00:33:36
Speaker
First of all, you can't go wrong with IJNets. Those people, the only grudge I have with them is where, where they, where we are going. We can say that off everything on Facebook or Finn, female in Nigeria. We can say that with so many platforms today. Okay, so IJNets, do you have any others? I'll include the links, the show notes. Yeah, okay, so IJNets,
00:33:59
Speaker
I go to IJNet. I usually go around to centres for journalism. So they can be centres for investigative journalism. I'm on mailing lists. This is the thing about me. I'm on a lot of mailing lists. I think every journalist should try and get on mailing lists. You'll be shocked at what you get. Is there any you'd recommend? Mailing lists. I'm more or less sure in investigative journalism centre. I think it's European Institute for journalism.
00:34:30
Speaker
You also need to get on mailing list or the website for VIT journalism. So it's WITS, the journalism page for VIT University. They're very good. Very good. They have opportunities there a lot and the opportunities cover Africa.
00:34:54
Speaker
Then I also use Google Alerts actually. Tell us about that. How do you use Google Alerts to find opportunities? So I set up Google Alerts. So I write apply African conference, apply grants, apply scholarship and those keywords bring in anything.
00:35:17
Speaker
and everything. You're one of the pioneering staff that set up the BVC Pigeon Service. Tell us about that journey. How did you get involved with it and what was it like? In 2015, the BVC announced that they were going to set up a Pigeon Service. No.
00:35:35
Speaker
I didn't believe it. What I did, I wrote to Lillian Landau. She was the head of languages. I think that was her post then. And she was the one quoted in the article by the BBC that they've added new languages. Pigeon is one of them. So I said, I'm actually interested. Some of my freelance work had been
00:35:57
Speaker
translating financial accounts, financial statements, because I worked for the FT in London briefly. So I was translating financial statements and budgets into Pigeon English, also voicing them. So they did that at Financial Times?
00:36:15
Speaker
Financial Times gave me, and Reuters as well, gave me a financial background in reporting. And so just speaking to people, so how you can use different skills. And so those financial skills came in handy when I was working for a finance-focused NGO that wanted to translate all this big grammar and big concepts into fiction. That's amazing. So I was almost asked if you had been prepared for this moment.
00:36:41
Speaker
exactly so this is the thing lesson number one five six seven every single thing prepares you for something now when that something is going to come you don't know that's why every single experience you immerse yourself and also another tip
00:36:58
Speaker
I just looked at the name of the person in the article and I remember that with the BBC you put the person named Dr Sarni and at bbc.co.uk. So I read to her. Guess what she replied. She replied. That's the thing. People always assume that these people in these positions are untouchable. They are not.
00:37:20
Speaker
No, Lillian not only replied once, she replied three times. And was actually arranging that I should come in and say, so what I told her, I said, oh, I would like to see how I can walk from Germany in any capacity, you know, whenever you guys open the service and just expressing my interest. I know you guys will take your time.
00:37:41
Speaker
So she was like, oh, do you come to London? And I was like, yeah, from time to time, I used to live there. And she was like, OK, if you come to London, let me know. I let her know. But one way or the other, she was out of town or something. Then Lillian left. Oh, no. Now, some of the other, you know, not too long after BBC announces vacancies for BBC Pigeon.
00:38:11
Speaker
So I applied. And I got him. Did the exams from here. I had to ask myself, is it worth leaving Germany? Is it worth leaving the comforts to go and slob it out in Nigeria? Once again, yes. Indefinitely.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah. What was the BBC application process like? Was it like from the moment you kind of apply for that job? It was really nice. It was actually nice. So yeah, I think the only thing that was sort of was the first form and that's understandable. They tell you to, they want a lot of details about you. They also want a lot of proof actually. So if you, if you want it, because I've applied to the BBC twice. I applied in London and I didn't get it.
00:39:01
Speaker
got to the last stage, I didn't get it. I applied to BBC Africa in London in 2012. So I sort of was prepared the second time around. So when they have to explain to a lay person or somebody who is planning to or who will likely apply to the BBC, when they have a job advert listing the skills they want,
00:39:31
Speaker
When they ask you in the form, tell us while you're suitable, what they're asking you to do is to give examples of where you fit into that role. So for instance, if they say we need somebody who will come up with innovative programming for BBC Pigeon service, I was able to say I've come up with innovative programming before. I was responsible for a budget handbook in Pigeon and this is a link.
00:40:02
Speaker
you know so you have to be able to improve it yeah you're basically demonstrating that okay i have experience in this area and this is the proof of experience yeah the word you've said is demonstrate you have to demonstrate it
00:40:16
Speaker
you have to demonstrate it. So you have to be prepared for extra emails. And me personally, this is not something I had in the BBC. For me personally, I think the speed with which you respond to the emails shows you have not, it's second nature to you. So they asked,
00:40:38
Speaker
What type of things do you think the pigeon service should be doing? Just tell us what you think. They asked about five questions to pick your brain. Now, what I got, this is all my email, with email. So this after I've sent my email, I've sent my application. Yeah, then I'll send another email.
00:41:03
Speaker
what you know with five questions just to be sure you know because they were right you know they said oh we have a lot of applicants we are going to really have to weed people out so i'm like okay bring it on and then they were like oh these are the five questions they as in they wrote it there
00:41:20
Speaker
I'm like, okay, bring it on. I can answer this. So what type of programming do you think should be doing? What do you actually feel, you know, opinions of this should look like? Those were the questions I was asked. It might be different for somebody else. Now, this is the thing. I was on a flight from Vietnam to Germany. We had had a long holiday. I had the option.
00:41:44
Speaker
I had the option to just be myself, my usual self, and just sit back in that plane and drink whiskey, enjoy my life, and respond, I don't know, seven to two hours later.
00:41:59
Speaker
I could show that, you know, if you were sitting across from me and you were asking me, I would be able to say it immediately because, you know, I'm cool like that. So what I did, I answered it immediately. You need to show yourself as somebody who is proactive, who responds.
00:42:16
Speaker
know because you don't know what timelines they have yeah so I responded quickly the next thing that happened they said a few I think a few days later about a week or so they were like okay we want you to do a written test the test is timed you know so what I did I had to answer questions on ethics
00:42:40
Speaker
I had to answer questions on news choices. There's no right or wrong answer. And after that, I was supposed to face the next stage was a
00:42:51
Speaker
Skype interview. Now, if I was in Nigeria, it would have been a face to face interview or the test would have been written, you know, paper, maybe in a hole or something. Yeah. So, yeah. And that was it. Then I got the call, I think a week later after the interview.
00:43:11
Speaker
I got the call in all everything took about two months okay so it was not a quick process you need to give this thing time no no it's not a quick process if you have blood pressure issues
00:43:24
Speaker
This one where you have to calm down. They're going to have to calm down. And look at this as these good things take time. So yeah. So you are the only Nigerian to win the Reuters, NIL, Fitzgerald prize for young African journalists. And you won that in 2018. Yeah. 2010. How was that for you?
00:43:51
Speaker
oh my god maybe i was out for my mom and my grandma who happened to be in the house at the same time they it really rolled on the floor when i got the call oh my god when this phone rang my mother was like when i said this number looks like a foreign number she was like i'm going to be free yeah so i was like please i was like please go to the other room but she goes
00:44:19
Speaker
I'm like, hello. They're like, hello. So I was sold right now. We have to say congratulations. Wow. I was like, excuse me. I'm sorry. Can I scream? Again, bring yourself. I'm like, I'm really sorry. I don't want to scream in your ear. Please, can I scream? And we're like, of course you can. I'm like, hold on. I'm just going to move the phone away. Sorry. So I was like, ah! And my mother and grandmother just loved it.
00:44:47
Speaker
they were like I'm sorry my mom and grandma they're kind of happy and they're like oh that's so wonderful don't worry congratulations mom and grandma those ones were in heaven most recently you did your undercover reporting on the codeine epidemic in Nigeria tell us about that how did you come across that story and what was the general like in developing that story I like to think this codeine story actually chose me because
00:45:15
Speaker
I was just on my own minding my business when somebody advertised coding to my brother on Facebook. When you look at it, something happened in 2009 that became the coding story in 2018. He wasn't really always coming home, which is why we're monitoring the Facebook, which is why I saw it. So I was hovering around hoping to see him comment so I can chat with him on Facebook and let everybody know he's fine. And then
00:45:45
Speaker
He didn't come on. All sorts of people were instead, you know, saying, how much is this one? How much is the tramadol? How much? I was like, what the hell is going on here? Oh, well, whatever, you know. And I didn't really think much of it. Two weeks later, I went to go and try and buy Cody. And my neighborhood pharmacist was like, I'm not sending it to you. I'm like, come on. I really haven't come. He's like, no. I'm like, whatever.
00:46:12
Speaker
And then years later, we start to know what Sisop is and all that and all that. Now, the problem was that I've been wanting to do a story on cough syrup. Why? Because I wanted to know, why are people interested in this thing? How does this thing even become a drug? Like, what is addictive about it? Why is it so, you know, so why is it everywhere? And as I was trying to sniff around, I saw again on Facebook,
00:46:42
Speaker
I saw a story I think about Lil Wayne the rapper so I shared it and at the time Lil Wayne came out there was another guy who shared a story in response to that on Instagram about how his friends on Twitter how his friends almost chopped him up because he had a coding addiction
00:47:08
Speaker
a coding addiction. So I shared that on my wall on Facebook. I'm like, kids, stay off drugs. Seriously, this is not funny anymore. And a lady comes to the page, we were colleagues before when I was in Nigeria, and she said, oh my goodness, this is what just happened to my niece that I'm looking after. They had to call me from school. So I unboxed, I said, will you be willing to talk to me?
00:47:37
Speaker
And she said, yeah, I will. Will you get me in touch with the school? She said, yeah. So at the time, the producer already started, the time this lady put this up and all of that, and this lady replied to my post, I was in Nigeria, I was working for PG. Now the producer, who would end up producing this documentary, co-producing for Africa Eye,
00:48:07
Speaker
was in our newsroom as a trainer. Yeah, you know, it was up in a setup. So I sounded off to him. I said, look, I want to do a story on this thing. It's very, you know, it's troubling to me, my brother and everything. And I don't know if my brother would talk. I don't think he will anyway. But this lady, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, well, I'm not sure if my brother is feeling too
00:48:35
Speaker
coding way and all that. This lady, this is what she said, even children now. So I think it's alama, I think it's it. And that's where it took off from. Okay, brilliant. Thank you so much, Rona. Do you have any last piece of advice or tips for the listener? Journalism is not one size fits all. Okay.
00:48:59
Speaker
I get a lot of people that say, oh, why do women in newsrooms get put in fashion beats? For example, why do the men get put in? That's not the problem. The problem is when you get put in a particular beat and you do exactly what is expected of every other person on that beat. So for instance, I don't have a problem being put on a fashion
00:49:28
Speaker
beat even right now. I have a problem if I am now told or I am made to understand I must report the fashion beats the same way others have so a lot of people say oh they want to dumb me down by putting me in this particular beat no
00:49:48
Speaker
If you've been a business person or you're interested in business, that doesn't stop when you get put on the fashion beat. Because guess what? There is a business side to fashion. There's a political side to fashion. Thank you very much.
00:50:04
Speaker
I think we all need regardless of gender but most especially women they feel just because they put them in there or just because they identify as a fashion journalist then there's only one way to report there's not one way to report there are as many different ways to report as there are many different people so
00:50:27
Speaker
Please try and bring out your speciality to every speciality, to every story that you have because remember in journalism there is not a one size fits all approach. Find your approach, hone it, make it successful and enjoy. Brilliant, thank you Rionna.