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Her Media Diary Episode 42: “Winning Against All Odds” with Dr Joyce Kirabo
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Dr Joyce Kirabo is a lecturer and trainer with over 13 years of experience in mentoring, coaching, teaching and delivering training programs. She holds a PhD in business Administration from Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology. In a world where stories of resilience and determination often go unheard, the journey of Dr. Joyce stands out as a beacon of hope. Growing up as a refugee in Uganda, Dr. Joyce faced immense challenges that could have easily derailed her dreams. However, her unwavering commitment to education became her lifeline, guiding her through the darkest of times.
Dr. Joyce's early life was marked by the trauma of the Rwandan genocide, a period that left deep scars on her community and family. As she navigated her childhood, she witnessed the struggles of her parents, who worked tirelessly to provide for their family despite their own lack of education. This backdrop instilled in her a profound understanding of the value of education, especially for women who often faced additional societal barriers.
Determined to rise above her circumstances, Dr. Joyce excelled academically, earning multiple diplomas and degrees against all odds.
Today, Dr. Joyce is not only a lecturer and trainer but also a role model for young women aspiring to make their mark in the media industry.
Subscribe to Her Media Diary now on your favourite podcasting platform https://linktr.ee/hermediadiary
Learn more about the podcast via www.hermediadiary.com
List of Organisations/Resources to Support Women in Media
- Rise Women in Broadcast
- Journalist’s Toolbox:
- International Women’s Media Foundation (IWMF)
- African Women in Media (AWiM)
- Public Media Women in Leadership
- International Journalists’ Network (IJNet)
- Women’s Media Center (WMC)
- Media Career Development Network
- The World Journalism Education Council (WJEC)
- AWiM Learning
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Transcript
Childhood Struggles with Education
00:00:07
Speaker
I remember there time when I went to school and the orders would send us home because we have no paid school fees. When I went to my father, told you know what, go to the garden, you're girl child.
00:00:19
Speaker
For Christ's sake, I even wonder why you're crying for education. you know So there was a time when I went to visit my sister. My sister had married a rich man somewhere away in town.
00:00:31
Speaker
So one time while my sister was away, her husband wanted to take advantage of me being a vulnerable guy looking for school fees because literally he's the one that was actually paid for me. He promised to take me to the Makerere University by then.
00:00:43
Speaker
i had only two choices. I would either join Makerere University next year or I would go back to the village to go be with my mother.
Introduction to African Women's Stories
00:01:00
Speaker
Welcome to Her Media Diary, the podcast where African women share their real stories, boldness, and behind-the-scenes moments that share their journeys. I'm your host, Dr. Yeti Akulibola, and with each episode, we're pulling back the curtain on what it really means to build needed career, break barriers, and stay true to your voice.
00:01:19
Speaker
Whether you're just starting out or already making waves in your career, this space is for you. In this episode, we have the privilege of hearing the inspiring story of Dr. Joyce Kourabi, a lecturer and trainer with a PhD in Business Administration.
Growing up as a Refugee
00:01:35
Speaker
Let's get into
00:01:44
Speaker
it. One of my things I need to improve on is pronunciation of names. So please correct me if you need to. um So you've been a lecturer and trainer for many, many years. You have a PhD in business administration.
00:02:08
Speaker
But before we get into all your amazing accomplishments, let's start with getting to know who Dr. Joyce is. Who was you Dr. Joyce before she became Dr.
Overcoming Financial and Societal Barriers
00:02:18
Speaker
Joyce? how Where did you grow up Well, I grew up from Uganda from a very vulnerable background. I was a refugee that had run from Rwanda to Uganda because of the genocide that happened in 1994. My parents had lived much earlier to go to Uganda for refuge and that's where we grew up from. Then later after the genocide, Rwanda stabilized.
00:02:43
Speaker
We saw the need of coming back home and yeah, we took some time Then later we came and yeah, there we are.
00:02:55
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Now a little bit of me, I, with that, knowledge of Ugandan, mainly speak most languages from Uganda, also Kenya because me by that born in Kenya. Okay, right, interesting. Yes, interesting because my parents left Uganda for some reasons, there were political issues during at that time, so they went to Kenya, that's where I was born. Okay. Then after the president, Mosavini came into power, then we came back too.
00:03:24
Speaker
Uganda and then later after the genocide we came back to Rwanda. So we've been struggling a little bit with education, you know. i As I told you, I was a child of a refugee, we don't have much. So my parents didn didn't have much.
00:03:36
Speaker
My mother didn't go to school, my father didn't go to school. So we struggled a lot as a young child. Growing up with school fees, we didn't have nothing with a lot of temptations as a girl child.
00:03:48
Speaker
But um I knew that my kids would be education. move So I made sure I concentrated on education and did quite a number of courses with all those challenges, financial challenges.
00:04:03
Speaker
I was able to do a lot of courses. So as I talk right now, I did so many certificates. I have two diplomas, have two bachelor's, have two
Memories of the Rwandan Genocide
00:04:09
Speaker
masters. Wow. Gosh, that's amazing. What was it like, and so taking you back to the genocide, do you have memories, much memories of that period?
00:04:18
Speaker
Yes, I do.
00:04:21
Speaker
It is is very painful sometimes because at least every person around lost somebody or at least a person they knew. So it was a bit traumatizing. Although I was a child,
00:04:33
Speaker
They used to hear these stories and my parents were quite scared for some time. So sometimes I remember of a certain experience where we needed, we used to eat fish a lot because it came from Lake Victoria. yeah So my father stopped buying fish and then one time we asked father, why are you not buying fish?
00:04:52
Speaker
told us, you know what? dead bodies in Lake Victoria and that they have got
Family Challenges and Education Decisions
00:04:59
Speaker
fish with dead bodies, with watches, so we can't eat fish anymore.
00:05:03
Speaker
So the dead bodies had crossed all over from Rwanda to Uganda because they had believed that Rwandan stuti came from Ethiopia and therefore there was a river that connected Lake Victoria to River So they would always throw them in that river called River Nyabarong to take the bodies back to Ethiopia where they came from.
00:05:26
Speaker
So it's a very bad experience. So you realize that growing up in a country where you are not born, where your parents are not born, sometimes you are discriminated against, you called all sorts of names.
00:05:40
Speaker
It wasn't a very good experience. We needed to come back home and also mainly have a voice to change things. We thank God things are not better. We park in Rwanda, things are doing good.
00:05:54
Speaker
but it's a very dark history. And you talk about being a refugee. So did you literally have to like journey out? What was that like?
00:06:05
Speaker
Okay, we were, up my father was a cattle keeper for some rich guy in Uganda. So he he did cattle keeping for survival, of course. Randans are not for cattle keeping. So my father was employed in there you know in their farms, and that's where would always get a living from.
00:06:24
Speaker
Meaning even school fees was a problem. And you see, our old parents did not have family planning methods, so they produced so many children. So we're so many, by the way, we have eight girls and two boys. Wow. Imagine. Gosh. Yes. and we For the same mother. For the same mother and the same father. Your mother is a strong woman.
00:06:41
Speaker
She is. So... we didn't we We struggled quite a lot. So with that, i we didn't have land. you know They only gave my father some house as a cattle keeper. That's where he would have all his children being produced from.
00:06:58
Speaker
So it wasn't a very easy life growing up. So I remember there's a time when I went to school and the orders would send us home because we have not paid school fees. And when I went to my father, told him about school physio told you know what, go to the garden, you're a girl child.
00:07:17
Speaker
For Christ's sake, I didn't wonder why you're crying for education. you know So I went crying and my mother picked me, went back to the teacher, pleaded to the teacher to give me a test. So no out it was a promotion exam.
00:07:30
Speaker
So I would not be able to be promoted to the next class. So it wasn't easy. So what is your passion for education? Do you think all of that influenced that?
00:07:41
Speaker
It did quite a lot. yeah And let me tell you how this influenced my passion for education. Because we we were in schools with children from quite rich families. So were in groups.
00:07:53
Speaker
Those that belonged to the group of the rich and us. who definitely came from our own background. So I used to admire those people in those groups they literally had everything.
00:08:05
Speaker
parents had provided for them everything for us were lacking. is the hope at the time when I came home I came to school with only one panty. and Yes, and they stole it. So the next day I had to go to class with no panty.
00:08:24
Speaker
It's fine. So we used to admire those boys and girls that came from families where their parents had everything. During VDs, they would come to visit them. Of course, no one would come to visit them. And probably with one kilogram of sugar sugar that were given at the beginning of the term, and that's what takes you through the portal. Now, what made me strong is that I really loved education very much.
00:08:49
Speaker
In the classroom, I really sit on the front lawn, and I would listen to the teacher very much. And I would help the girls and boys in the class who didn't know some exercises.
00:09:01
Speaker
So when I do the exercises for them and they and then they they give me some sugar in return because I've helped them to the cuts. assignments in class.
00:09:12
Speaker
That's how I you know negotiated your way through it. Exactly. So there's a time when I went to visit my sister. My sister had married a rich man somewhere in town.
00:09:24
Speaker
So when i finished our senior year five and six, they were actually helping me. My sister was not helping because the parents were now old and of course retired.
00:09:36
Speaker
They did not have any income. So now the sister took over. But it's her husband literally who was helping to pay school fees for me. And now I was the sixth vacation waiting to join university. At first I wanted to become a lawyer. Why did you want become a lawyer?
00:09:58
Speaker
well, there were cases that I loved. The cases that influenced me, I really wanted to, especially, there were so vulnerable cases of men beating up their wives in our villages.
00:10:11
Speaker
those You know, that time a man would do anything to their wife and there were no laws. Yes, there's even a man who asked his wife to leave the house and bring in a new girlfriend. And the woman had sleep in the sitting room and she cried the whole night.
00:10:24
Speaker
So I knew if I become a lawyer, I'm going to take up such these cases and these women, have I'll be a voice for them. That's why I all wanted to become a lawyer. But because of the financial challenges, it didn't happen.
00:10:35
Speaker
So that time when my sister was paying for me, I had finished in year six and I was doing university. she I was living with her her house so I would be able to do all the house chores to support her in exchange for school fees. Because I've grown up from the village, yeah we are girls that have been told by the traditional mothers on how to cook, do house.
00:10:56
Speaker
So I was good and my sister would be happy having me in her house than a maid. with her children. So one time her husband wanted, while my sister was away, her husband wanted to take advantage of me being a vulnerable guy looking for school fees because literally he's the one that was actually paying for me. He promised to take me to Makara University by then.
00:11:18
Speaker
and um So it became a force. He wanted to force me. My sister was away on a workshop. So I God so i can I had only two choices. I would either join Makere University next year or I would go back to the village to go deep with my mother.
00:11:37
Speaker
There were only two choices to make. And you see by that time a girl child, when you're here, you're going to Makere University. yeah no It's an option if you don't want to live.
00:11:50
Speaker
But I thank God I decided that This is my sister. She's married to this man. And probably if they have HIV, that means I'm also going to have it. And I was young and very vulnerable. Innocent. I didn't know much. you know And I knew his objective was only to you know to use me.
00:12:08
Speaker
He's my sister's husband for Christ's sake. you know So I chose to leave their home the next day. without my sister's knowledge. So went back to
Support from Family and Academic Success
00:12:17
Speaker
the village. And when my sister came back from the college, I think she was very angry with me. She called home, told my mother, she doesn't want see me again in her house.
00:12:24
Speaker
And that's how I went home. But luckily enough, my mother sold her goats, you know, of power, of a woman. She had her goats, her chicken somewhere. So she would sell them and take me to a college.
00:12:36
Speaker
So that's why I ended up starting with a deep diploma instead of going direct to the university because the only advantage I had had and lost it through my sister's husband. yeah But i promised myself that with all this challenge, I would love to to climb high.
00:12:53
Speaker
It's like that every graduation I make, I'll send my sister and her husband an invitation. And I'll make the point that every level I climb, I send them an invitation. Even when I graduated with a PhD, I still send them an invitation.
Promoting Diversity in Journalism
00:13:07
Speaker
And he doesn't have a PhD, by the way.
00:13:10
Speaker
So, congratulations.
00:13:17
Speaker
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00:13:29
Speaker
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00:13:43
Speaker
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00:13:59
Speaker
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Impact of Early Challenges on Career
00:14:17
Speaker
gen let's promote advocate inclusion and representation
00:14:33
Speaker
I mean, to be put in such a situation at such a young age and for you to be able to make the choice that you did, yeah when you reflect on that, how do you feel that all of those and actually the consequences of making that morally just option, how has that shaped kind of your what you do today?
00:14:56
Speaker
you know you You train and work with women in media. You're a leader in your field in terms of education and and and teaching. So how how do you how does that resonate with you today in terms of what you do?
00:15:12
Speaker
That has been very informing. you know when you get It's like when you get an education through practice, it sinks deep. than when you just learn it theoretically. So my my education has been practical.
00:15:26
Speaker
So that practical part of it has shaped my life to today. It has shaped my decisions. It has shaped how I interact with people, quite setting boundaries for my myself, yeah being very assertive as a young girl.
00:15:39
Speaker
And this is why I normally come. I have sessions with my girls. There's a time when we only meet as ladies and talk, ladies talk. And I love it. So I have come to tell my girls that you know what?
00:15:52
Speaker
Life is what make it. And that statement may sound small, but it means lot. quite powerful also. It's very powerful. I tell my girls that when you choose to take your life to the East, it will always come along with you.
00:16:06
Speaker
it will not It will not be left behind. you choose to take your life to the West, so the resilience and being patient because the future is what counts.
00:16:17
Speaker
What you may see that right now may be more attractive, fine, but it's very short-lived. So something that is quite... that that's We shouldri should strive for something that is prolonged, that will give you benefits for the rest of your
Importance of Financial Empowerment for Women
00:16:34
Speaker
life.
00:16:34
Speaker
And that's what I'm actually benefiting today. So be setting boundaries as a woman also is a kind of skill that young girls should learn to practice.
00:16:46
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah So you've got a PhD in Businessman Admin, you're working with women in media yeah and we're here today Dakar talking about media and sustainability, right? So and in your view, what are the key factors that determine whether women are striving economically or not in the media sector? probably pursue their dreams and even the dreams of of their children.
00:17:12
Speaker
Now, the challenge that we have right today is that quite a number of women, of course, in the African setting, as much as we've achieved some kind of gender empowerment, but that the traditional stereotypes still exist, and actually strongly in the communities out there.
00:17:32
Speaker
Women are denied the chance to participate in the decision-making process of the whole the decision is to affect their own bodies. It's including the number of children you're supposed to have.
00:17:44
Speaker
Such a decision would affect their lives, sometimes can cause them to die. But they're denied the responsibility to participate in the decision-making process.
00:17:55
Speaker
And therefore, me as a counselor and as also as a role model, I reach out to these women in large groups. Because I do also establish, I will have my own company.
00:18:07
Speaker
It's called a holistic company. That brings the whole process together. So I do counsel women so much about the financial empowerment. Because look, a woman is the is the person that If you want to build a nation, definitely you have to educate a woman. who Because and in Rwanda, women are the majority.
00:18:26
Speaker
So you imagine it such a person, if you deny them the platform, you can imagine the disfavor that you're going to do to the country. To the whole society. To the whole society, and of course to the sustainable development goals of the country at large. So such a woman wants given a platform, not only a platform, but also finances.
00:18:44
Speaker
So women are encouraged to establish business ventures that can put them in a position of negotiation. Once you're financially capable, you are able even to increase your you negotiating power in the decision making process.
00:19:02
Speaker
Sometimes men are women are vulnerable because they don't bring anything on the table. But once a man realizes that you're bringing something on the table, therefore we need to have an income. This income will be coming from entrepreneurship, will come from getting jobs and you know you earn a living. And me as an an
Gender Empowerment in Rwanda
00:19:20
Speaker
educator in high learning, especially in in business and media communication, you know I'm in a better position now to build a greater, greater future of girls who not only will not only depend on a men, but also have their own business ventures to bring something on the table.
00:19:38
Speaker
And speaking about Rwanda, it's a country that many of us know for gender equality. But I'm really curious to know to the extent to which that national kind of recognition and position around gender equality has been translated in the media industry.
00:19:54
Speaker
in your perspective. OK, thank you so much. Rwanda is unique, especially with issues of gender empowerment. I think in Africa, with 2003, according to the UN report, 2003, Rwanda had 61 positions in the parliament.
00:20:11
Speaker
six to one positions rather parliament yeah and in other positions at local levels, Rwanda women have been given positions of leadership at different levels.
00:20:24
Speaker
And that is empowerment enough. Why? In such leadership position, now women are able to negotiate policies that change the narrative. Now women are also able to prioritize issues to do with mental health, issues to do with child maternal health, issues to do with nutrition, issues to do with girl education. you know So because of that empowerment that the government has brought in place of a girl, child and women in particular, it has turned the whole narrative.
00:20:55
Speaker
And Rwanda is very different as far as women empowerment concerned as compared to the rest of the neighboring countries within Africa. So the government has done a lot to promote the person of a woman.
00:21:08
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for spending time with me today, Dr. Joyce. It's been a pleasure hearing your story. I mean, it's quite as what quite a story it was as well. And I look forward to kind of getting to know you better. And um I hope you enjoyed the conference.
00:21:22
Speaker
Thank you so much. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Thank you.
Episode Conclusion
00:21:32
Speaker
Thank you for staying with us to this point. If you found today's conversation inspiring, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with somebody who needs to hear If you'd like to join me on an episode of the podcast, send me an email at jenswee at africanhumanindia.com or visit our website at herindiediary.com.
00:21:53
Speaker
Subscribe and follow Her Mindy Diary on all your favorite podcast platforms. Also, tune in to our partner radio stations from anywhere across Africa. Don't forget, join the conversation using the hashtag, Hedding Egypt Diary.
00:22:17
Speaker
Hemidu Diary is a product of African Women in Media, an NGO advocating for gender equality in the media industry. And this episode was hosted by Dr. Yemisi Akimbobola, produced and edited by Blessing O'Dob as part of a five-episode series on media and sustainability.
00:22:34
Speaker
All music featured in this podcast is by Nana Kwabena. Thanks for listening and join us again next time.