Transcript
Speaker: I remember there time when I went to school and the orders would send us home because we have no paid school fees. When I went to my father, told you know what, go to the garden, you're girl child.
Speaker: For Christ's sake, I even wonder why you're crying for education. you know So there was a time when I went to visit my sister. My sister had married a rich man somewhere away in town.
Speaker: So one time while my sister was away, her husband wanted to take advantage of me being a vulnerable guy looking for school fees because literally he's the one that was actually paid for me. He promised to take me to the Makerere University by then.
Speaker: i had only two choices. I would either join Makerere University next year or I would go back to the village to go be with my mother.
Speaker: Welcome to Her Media Diary, the podcast where African women share their real stories, boldness, and behind-the-scenes moments that share their journeys. I'm your host, Dr. Yeti Akulibola, and with each episode, we're pulling back the curtain on what it really means to build needed career, break barriers, and stay true to your voice.
Speaker: Whether you're just starting out or already making waves in your career, this space is for you. In this episode, we have the privilege of hearing the inspiring story of Dr. Joyce Kourabi, a lecturer and trainer with a PhD in Business Administration.
Speaker: Let's get into
Speaker: it. One of my things I need to improve on is pronunciation of names. So please correct me if you need to. um So you've been a lecturer and trainer for many, many years. You have a PhD in business administration.
Speaker: But before we get into all your amazing accomplishments, let's start with getting to know who Dr. Joyce is. Who was you Dr. Joyce before she became Dr. Joyce? how Where did you grow up Well, I grew up from Uganda from a very vulnerable background. I was a refugee that had run from Rwanda to Uganda because of the genocide that happened in 1994. My parents had lived much earlier to go to Uganda for refuge and that's where we grew up from. Then later after the genocide, Rwanda stabilized.
Speaker: We saw the need of coming back home and yeah, we took some time Then later we came and yeah, there we are.
Speaker: Now a little bit of me, I, with that, knowledge of Ugandan, mainly speak most languages from Uganda, also Kenya because me by that born in Kenya. Okay, right, interesting. Yes, interesting because my parents left Uganda for some reasons, there were political issues during at that time, so they went to Kenya, that's where I was born. Okay. Then after the president, Mosavini came into power, then we came back too.
Speaker: Uganda and then later after the genocide we came back to Rwanda. So we've been struggling a little bit with education, you know. i As I told you, I was a child of a refugee, we don't have much. So my parents didn didn't have much.
Speaker: My mother didn't go to school, my father didn't go to school. So we struggled a lot as a young child. Growing up with school fees, we didn't have nothing with a lot of temptations as a girl child.
Speaker: But um I knew that my kids would be education. move So I made sure I concentrated on education and did quite a number of courses with all those challenges, financial challenges.
Speaker: I was able to do a lot of courses. So as I talk right now, I did so many certificates. I have two diplomas, have two bachelor's, have two masters. Wow. Gosh, that's amazing. What was it like, and so taking you back to the genocide, do you have memories, much memories of that period?
Speaker: Yes, I do.
Speaker: It is is very painful sometimes because at least every person around lost somebody or at least a person they knew. So it was a bit traumatizing. Although I was a child,
Speaker: They used to hear these stories and my parents were quite scared for some time. So sometimes I remember of a certain experience where we needed, we used to eat fish a lot because it came from Lake Victoria. yeah So my father stopped buying fish and then one time we asked father, why are you not buying fish?
Speaker: told us, you know what? dead bodies in Lake Victoria and that they have got fish with dead bodies, with watches, so we can't eat fish anymore.
Speaker: So the dead bodies had crossed all over from Rwanda to Uganda because they had believed that Rwandan stuti came from Ethiopia and therefore there was a river that connected Lake Victoria to River So they would always throw them in that river called River Nyabarong to take the bodies back to Ethiopia where they came from.
Speaker: So it's a very bad experience. So you realize that growing up in a country where you are not born, where your parents are not born, sometimes you are discriminated against, you called all sorts of names.
Speaker: It wasn't a very good experience. We needed to come back home and also mainly have a voice to change things. We thank God things are not better. We park in Rwanda, things are doing good.
Speaker: but it's a very dark history. And you talk about being a refugee. So did you literally have to like journey out? What was that like?
Speaker: Okay, we were, up my father was a cattle keeper for some rich guy in Uganda. So he he did cattle keeping for survival, of course. Randans are not for cattle keeping. So my father was employed in there you know in their farms, and that's where would always get a living from.
Speaker: Meaning even school fees was a problem. And you see, our old parents did not have family planning methods, so they produced so many children. So we're so many, by the way, we have eight girls and two boys. Wow. Imagine. Gosh. Yes. and we For the same mother. For the same mother and the same father. Your mother is a strong woman.
Speaker: She is. So... we didn't we We struggled quite a lot. So with that, i we didn't have land. you know They only gave my father some house as a cattle keeper. That's where he would have all his children being produced from.
Speaker: So it wasn't a very easy life growing up. So I remember there's a time when I went to school and the orders would send us home because we have not paid school fees. And when I went to my father, told him about school physio told you know what, go to the garden, you're a girl child.
Speaker: For Christ's sake, I didn't wonder why you're crying for education. you know So I went crying and my mother picked me, went back to the teacher, pleaded to the teacher to give me a test. So no out it was a promotion exam.
Speaker: So I would not be able to be promoted to the next class. So it wasn't easy. So what is your passion for education? Do you think all of that influenced that?
Speaker: It did quite a lot. yeah And let me tell you how this influenced my passion for education. Because we we were in schools with children from quite rich families. So were in groups.
Speaker: Those that belonged to the group of the rich and us. who definitely came from our own background. So I used to admire those people in those groups they literally had everything.
Speaker: parents had provided for them everything for us were lacking. is the hope at the time when I came home I came to school with only one panty. and Yes, and they stole it. So the next day I had to go to class with no panty.
Speaker: It's fine. So we used to admire those boys and girls that came from families where their parents had everything. During VDs, they would come to visit them. Of course, no one would come to visit them. And probably with one kilogram of sugar sugar that were given at the beginning of the term, and that's what takes you through the portal. Now, what made me strong is that I really loved education very much.
Speaker: In the classroom, I really sit on the front lawn, and I would listen to the teacher very much. And I would help the girls and boys in the class who didn't know some exercises.
Speaker: So when I do the exercises for them and they and then they they give me some sugar in return because I've helped them to the cuts. assignments in class.
Speaker: That's how I you know negotiated your way through it. Exactly. So there's a time when I went to visit my sister. My sister had married a rich man somewhere in town.
Speaker: So when i finished our senior year five and six, they were actually helping me. My sister was not helping because the parents were now old and of course retired.
Speaker: They did not have any income. So now the sister took over. But it's her husband literally who was helping to pay school fees for me. And now I was the sixth vacation waiting to join university. At first I wanted to become a lawyer. Why did you want become a lawyer?
Speaker: well, there were cases that I loved. The cases that influenced me, I really wanted to, especially, there were so vulnerable cases of men beating up their wives in our villages.
Speaker: those You know, that time a man would do anything to their wife and there were no laws. Yes, there's even a man who asked his wife to leave the house and bring in a new girlfriend. And the woman had sleep in the sitting room and she cried the whole night.
Speaker: So I knew if I become a lawyer, I'm going to take up such these cases and these women, have I'll be a voice for them. That's why I all wanted to become a lawyer. But because of the financial challenges, it didn't happen.
Speaker: So that time when my sister was paying for me, I had finished in year six and I was doing university. she I was living with her her house so I would be able to do all the house chores to support her in exchange for school fees. Because I've grown up from the village, yeah we are girls that have been told by the traditional mothers on how to cook, do house.
Speaker: So I was good and my sister would be happy having me in her house than a maid. with her children. So one time her husband wanted, while my sister was away, her husband wanted to take advantage of me being a vulnerable guy looking for school fees because literally he's the one that was actually paying for me. He promised to take me to Makara University by then.
Speaker: and um So it became a force. He wanted to force me. My sister was away on a workshop. So I God so i can I had only two choices. I would either join Makere University next year or I would go back to the village to go deep with my mother.
Speaker: There were only two choices to make. And you see by that time a girl child, when you're here, you're going to Makere University. yeah no It's an option if you don't want to live.
Speaker: But I thank God I decided that This is my sister. She's married to this man. And probably if they have HIV, that means I'm also going to have it. And I was young and very vulnerable. Innocent. I didn't know much. you know And I knew his objective was only to you know to use me.
Speaker: He's my sister's husband for Christ's sake. you know So I chose to leave their home the next day. without my sister's knowledge. So went back to the village. And when my sister came back from the college, I think she was very angry with me. She called home, told my mother, she doesn't want see me again in her house.
Speaker: And that's how I went home. But luckily enough, my mother sold her goats, you know, of power, of a woman. She had her goats, her chicken somewhere. So she would sell them and take me to a college.
Speaker: So that's why I ended up starting with a deep diploma instead of going direct to the university because the only advantage I had had and lost it through my sister's husband. yeah But i promised myself that with all this challenge, I would love to to climb high.
Speaker: It's like that every graduation I make, I'll send my sister and her husband an invitation. And I'll make the point that every level I climb, I send them an invitation. Even when I graduated with a PhD, I still send them an invitation. And he doesn't have a PhD, by the way.
Speaker: So, congratulations.
Speaker: We know how important it is to have diverse voices and perspectives of both women and men in our stories. We also know the challenges journalists face trying to access female professionals for their stories.
Speaker: And so that's why we've developed SOSNER, a platform designed by African women media to connect journalists to female experts across Africa. So whether you need a female data scientist, perhaps, elf,
Speaker: professional engineer, hair craft expert or someone who can bring fresh innovative ideas to your story, SOSHA has recovered. The platform boasts an extensive database of talented women making it easier than ever to find the right fit for your story.
Speaker: And it's not just about filling positions, it's about promoting diversity and inclusion in and through media. One story at a time. So sign up now, just go to www.soultsfire.com and discover an interview female experts from across Africa.
Speaker: gen let's promote advocate inclusion and representation
Speaker: I mean, to be put in such a situation at such a young age and for you to be able to make the choice that you did, yeah when you reflect on that, how do you feel that all of those and actually the consequences of making that morally just option, how has that shaped kind of your what you do today?
Speaker: you know you You train and work with women in media. You're a leader in your field in terms of education and and and teaching. So how how do you how does that resonate with you today in terms of what you do?
Speaker: That has been very informing. you know when you get It's like when you get an education through practice, it sinks deep. than when you just learn it theoretically. So my my education has been practical.
Speaker: So that practical part of it has shaped my life to today. It has shaped my decisions. It has shaped how I interact with people, quite setting boundaries for my myself, yeah being very assertive as a young girl.
Speaker: And this is why I normally come. I have sessions with my girls. There's a time when we only meet as ladies and talk, ladies talk. And I love it. So I have come to tell my girls that you know what?
Speaker: Life is what make it. And that statement may sound small, but it means lot. quite powerful also. It's very powerful. I tell my girls that when you choose to take your life to the East, it will always come along with you.
Speaker: it will not It will not be left behind. you choose to take your life to the West, so the resilience and being patient because the future is what counts.
Speaker: What you may see that right now may be more attractive, fine, but it's very short-lived. So something that is quite... that that's We shouldri should strive for something that is prolonged, that will give you benefits for the rest of your life.
Speaker: And that's what I'm actually benefiting today. So be setting boundaries as a woman also is a kind of skill that young girls should learn to practice.
Speaker: yeah yeah yeah So you've got a PhD in Businessman Admin, you're working with women in media yeah and we're here today Dakar talking about media and sustainability, right? So and in your view, what are the key factors that determine whether women are striving economically or not in the media sector? probably pursue their dreams and even the dreams of of their children.
Speaker: Now, the challenge that we have right today is that quite a number of women, of course, in the African setting, as much as we've achieved some kind of gender empowerment, but that the traditional stereotypes still exist, and actually strongly in the communities out there.
Speaker: Women are denied the chance to participate in the decision-making process of the whole the decision is to affect their own bodies. It's including the number of children you're supposed to have.
Speaker: Such a decision would affect their lives, sometimes can cause them to die. But they're denied the responsibility to participate in the decision-making process.
Speaker: And therefore, me as a counselor and as also as a role model, I reach out to these women in large groups. Because I do also establish, I will have my own company.
Speaker: It's called a holistic company. That brings the whole process together. So I do counsel women so much about the financial empowerment. Because look, a woman is the is the person that If you want to build a nation, definitely you have to educate a woman. who Because and in Rwanda, women are the majority.
Speaker: So you imagine it such a person, if you deny them the platform, you can imagine the disfavor that you're going to do to the country. To the whole society. To the whole society, and of course to the sustainable development goals of the country at large. So such a woman wants given a platform, not only a platform, but also finances.
Speaker: So women are encouraged to establish business ventures that can put them in a position of negotiation. Once you're financially capable, you are able even to increase your you negotiating power in the decision making process.
Speaker: Sometimes men are women are vulnerable because they don't bring anything on the table. But once a man realizes that you're bringing something on the table, therefore we need to have an income. This income will be coming from entrepreneurship, will come from getting jobs and you know you earn a living. And me as an an educator in high learning, especially in in business and media communication, you know I'm in a better position now to build a greater, greater future of girls who not only will not only depend on a men, but also have their own business ventures to bring something on the table.
Speaker: And speaking about Rwanda, it's a country that many of us know for gender equality. But I'm really curious to know to the extent to which that national kind of recognition and position around gender equality has been translated in the media industry.
Speaker: in your perspective. OK, thank you so much. Rwanda is unique, especially with issues of gender empowerment. I think in Africa, with 2003, according to the UN report, 2003, Rwanda had 61 positions in the parliament.
Speaker: six to one positions rather parliament yeah and in other positions at local levels, Rwanda women have been given positions of leadership at different levels.
Speaker: And that is empowerment enough. Why? In such leadership position, now women are able to negotiate policies that change the narrative. Now women are also able to prioritize issues to do with mental health, issues to do with child maternal health, issues to do with nutrition, issues to do with girl education. you know So because of that empowerment that the government has brought in place of a girl, child and women in particular, it has turned the whole narrative.
Speaker: And Rwanda is very different as far as women empowerment concerned as compared to the rest of the neighboring countries within Africa. So the government has done a lot to promote the person of a woman.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much for spending time with me today, Dr. Joyce. It's been a pleasure hearing your story. I mean, it's quite as what quite a story it was as well. And I look forward to kind of getting to know you better. And um I hope you enjoyed the conference.
Speaker: Thank you so much. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you for staying with us to this point. If you found today's conversation inspiring, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with somebody who needs to hear If you'd like to join me on an episode of the podcast, send me an email at jenswee at africanhumanindia.com or visit our website at herindiediary.com.
Speaker: Subscribe and follow Her Mindy Diary on all your favorite podcast platforms. Also, tune in to our partner radio stations from anywhere across Africa. Don't forget, join the conversation using the hashtag, Hedding Egypt Diary.
Speaker: Hemidu Diary is a product of African Women in Media, an NGO advocating for gender equality in the media industry. And this episode was hosted by Dr. Yemisi Akimbobola, produced and edited by Blessing O'Dob as part of a five-episode series on media and sustainability.
Speaker: All music featured in this podcast is by Nana Kwabena. Thanks for listening and join us again next time.
