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Her Media Diary Episode 39: “Shaping AI for the Future of Journalism” with Nolwazi Tusini
29 Plays10 days ago
Nolwazi Tusini, an award-winning broadcast journalist, queer feminist, social justice activist and Program Director, Amplify South Africa. Nolwazi shares her experiences with loss, particularly the impact of losing her mother at a young age. This profound loss not only shaped her personal journey but also influenced her career path, pushing her towards journalism as a means to advocate for change.
Nolwazi talks about the challenges currently facing the media industry, particularly in light of technological advancements like AI. She emphasizes the need to keep a close eye on the policy making around AI and for Africa to be serious about the policy making and not allow AI companies to do with the continent what big tech had done.
Subscribe to Her Media Diary now on your favourite podcasting platform https://linktr.ee/hermediadiary
Learn about African Women in Media at https://africanwomeninmedia.com
List of Organisations/Resources to Support Women in Media
· International Women’s Media Foundation (IWMF)
· African Women in Media (AWiM)
· Public Media Women in Leadership
· International Journalists’ Network (IJNet)
· Media Career Development Network
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Transcript
Introduction to AI's Role in Society
00:00:04
Speaker
My biggest excitement around ai is the potential that it has to give us our lives back and our time back in ways that I think would be beautiful and brilliant if we get it right.
00:00:19
Speaker
What does it look like to be able to have a six-hour workday and a four-day workweek because we have been able to employ AI tools in such a way that certain things are so efficient, right? That means we have more time for joy, more time with our families, more time to be creative, imaginative, to do other things. And so I hope that we are able to intervene in the conversations and developments around AI to ensure that it works for the betterment of humanity and for our good, as opposed to working against us in the ways in which it has happened with big tech. AI can give us some of our lives back, some of our time back, which is the most scarce resource that we all have as human beings in a capitalistic system.
African Women in Media Initiative
00:01:09
Speaker
Imagine a world where we have gender equality and equity and through media. That is our mission at African Women in Media. I'm Dr. Yemisi Akimobola, and this is Media Diary, a podcast that captures the lived experiences of African women working in media industries.
00:01:29
Speaker
In this episode, I'm joined by Nawazi Tussini, an award-winning broadcast journalist a queer feminist, a social justice activist, and the program director, Amplify South Africa.
00:01:43
Speaker
Nawazi shares her experiences with loss, particularly the impact of losing a mother at such a young age. This profound loss shaped personal journey and influenced a career path, pushing her towards journalism as a means to advocate for change.
00:02:00
Speaker
She highlights the biggest excitement about AI and its potential to give us our lives back by making things more efficient.
Nawazi Tussini's Personal and Professional Journey
00:02:09
Speaker
Throughout this series, we'll be in conversation with African women who have redefined media sustainability through their various capacities.
00:02:17
Speaker
By inviting these voices into conversation, we hope to provide solutions to break down barriers faced by African women working in media industries.
00:02:38
Speaker
First of all, let's start with what does that beautiful name mean and how do I pronounce it properly? Okay, cool. My name is Nolwazi, to see me. So it's with, the yeah, my name, the meaning, probably the easiest way to explain it would be mother of knowledge. But I think my grandmother, who's the one that gave me that name, because according to her, she wanted... for me to be a person that was a curious person and she hoped for me to be a woman that would accumulate knowledge in you know big and incredible ways and had hoped that I would be one of her grandchildren that follows along her career path because she was a teacher by profession and so this is how i then ended up with this name yeah
00:03:20
Speaker
But i mean, you're not necessarily a teacher, but you are a well of knowledge, right? Of all your work around gender, race, identity and all that. Absolutely. Absolutely. i'm As a journalist, ah my my profession is journalism and and sort of I've used journalism to do a lot of all the other feminist work that I do, journalism.
00:03:39
Speaker
gender work, the race work, et etc. And really, what journalism gave to me, and which is why I love it as ah as a career path, is that it requires you to be a collector of information, a collector of knowledge, a knower of things, right?
00:03:55
Speaker
And being a journalist has allowed me and equipped me rather with the skill set to be able to accumulate, to have many interests, many curiosities, and accumulate knowledge um according to that.
00:04:08
Speaker
yeah So I just want to pause it just to highlight to our listeners that Nolwazi, which one? Nolwazi. I'll tell you a little story about pronouncing South African names in a second. But Nolwazi, he's in a public space.
00:04:28
Speaker
And then we currently have somebody in the room that she's hoping, you know, with a few side eyes would get the hints and leave the room so that we can have this conversation. So in case there's noise in the background, that's why. So but we're pushing on because she's kindly agreed to do this interview whilst in transit. So thank you so much, Mnolwaziz. So on that.
00:04:49
Speaker
There's lovely lady, I'm sure you know, Fatizwa Magopeni, right? Obviously, yes, I love Fatizwa. I've known her for years and she has so kindly never corrected me when I've called her Fatizwa.
00:05:01
Speaker
And then it's only literally in the last couple of months I heard that it's actually Fatizwa. And I'm like, oh, my God, why didn't you tell me? And I'm pretty sure I'm still not doing it justice. So ah do apologize. So you mentioned your grandma. Were you close to your grandma? What it like growing up?
00:05:18
Speaker
Were you close to your grandma? Who was your main influences?
Influences and Identity Exploration
00:05:21
Speaker
I think my the the biggest and main influence for me in my life was my mother. ah Before even my grandmother, I was raised by a single black Zulu woman um who in incidentally was also a journalist by profession.
00:05:37
Speaker
Wow, really? And I always say to people that my mother was, ah in my opinion, a feminist without the the label. And so, yeah, my mother was a very, very big influence in my life and also my my paternal and maternal grandmothers, but my paternal grandmother more so.
00:05:54
Speaker
And so I consider myself really lucky to really have been raised by women who were matriarchs, women who led families in particular kinds of ways, regardless of what positionality they had in the family. So my mother really led our family, even though in her family, she was the last born daughter.
00:06:14
Speaker
um and that would not be the person you expect leadership from from. And she really was, before she passed, the leader and the matriarch of our family in really important and profound ways. And so, yeah, growing up, I was raised by matriarchs, particularly my mother being a matriarch. And Growing up with a mother like I did, she taught me about human rights very early, about the fact about children's rights very early. I had the Children's Bill of Rights sort of like put up in my room and spoke about um equality and freedom in very specific and important ways that integrated it into our daily life as her children. Yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
I'm just doing a Google search because I just came back from my daughter's school. where they were doing a whole assembly around Children's Day. So i was just checking whether today was the date, but I think it's a couple of days from now, but was really interesting for you to kind of mention that. And that's why it literally just came from about the rights children and the inequalities of access to things like education and knowledge and all of that as well.
00:07:24
Speaker
And you mentioned earlier on with your mom that, you know, you were raised by, you know, a Zulu woman in South Africa. And yeah where you have lots of dynamics around identity and, you know, race and all of that. What was that like for you? Is that something that you kind of picked up for on from a young age? Absolutely. um Being Zulu is an important part of my identity, right? ah Maybe falls a little bit lower on the list when I list all the identities, but an important one. And what I learned from my mother was how to be, how to hold an identity that is
00:08:02
Speaker
attached to a lot of patriarchal duties, patriarchal conceptualizations and ideas of what womanhood is, to be able to hold that kind of identity, which is my Zulu-ness, hold it close, but still be able to push up against the patriarchy of it, push up against the understanding that I should be anywhere other than where I choose to be. And that may be in the kitchen, that may be in the university, but that the choice remains mine. and mine alone, right? Absolutely.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah. And and and and so i love being Zulu. I love growing up as Zulu. My culture is rich and it's beautiful and also flawed in particular kinds of ways, but also really grounding, you know?
00:08:47
Speaker
and know the things, ah my feminism is rooted in that, is rooted in my Africanness. And in so it's not just a black feminism, it's an African feminism, one that thinks about My grandmother whose husband died and left her with six children and she had to take a bicycle to work, you know, and what that meant and doing that in a time when she couldn't have.
00:09:12
Speaker
a bank account and refused to get a husband in order to get a bank account and would get and got ah one of her brothers, you know, to to do that. And so growing up Zulu and around matriarchs has led me to a really rooted, I believe, um African feminism. so What's your fondest memory of growing up in those contexts that you've just described?
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, when you look back to the early years. I think my favourite and fondest memories are probably around celebration, around weddings and the ways in which, you know, um families would gather around a wedding and how we knew it to be not just a momentous occasion,
00:09:57
Speaker
for these two people that are in love and and starting a life together, but a momentous occasion for these two families, but also a momentous occasion. for like the community and we would, you know, in in the township, you you shut down one side of the road and the other side of the road and the tent goes up and um there's ah there's a whole lot of interaction of ah different cultures, different families' cultures, different communities' cultures as this union makes us all one, right?
00:10:30
Speaker
And the witnessing of that, the joy of that, I'll never forget. and And it's really outside of the fact that we were flower girls with my cousins and things like that. And, you know, obviously it was always a a thing. you You would wear a beautiful dress and loved the princess dress bit of it.
00:10:46
Speaker
I loved the way that our people get married, right, at the process of it all. ah The Lobola negotiations, sitting in the corner and and listening to some of those conversations and watching them become this big wedding on the big day is some of my very, very fond memories.
00:11:04
Speaker
So where where exactly did you grow I grew up um in a coastal city called Durban in KZN in Guazulu-Natal. I grew up in Durban and basically lived there until my mother passed away when I was 11 years old. And at the point at which she passed away, i essentially moved to the south coast of Durban into a place called Port Shipston.
00:11:27
Speaker
Not necessarily to live there for my family, but I was in boarding school there. And then spent the rest of my formative years and from when I was about 12 years old until I was 18 in boarding school.
00:11:41
Speaker
um And so to a certain extent, I think boarding school in Port Shepston is also a place where I was raised and where I was where i grew up. And it's an important part for me of my story.
00:11:54
Speaker
ah around how I grew up because it's the language that you hear me speak now, not just it being English, but the ways in which I speak English is a direct result of the kind of education and schooling that I had. And it's a difficult, contested part of my identity because in order to be able to accumulate this language, I needed to give up my own in very profound and serious ways. And so It's um always important for me to say I am from Durban. grew up in the township of Guamashu where my Zulu was nurtured. And I am also from Pochepston, child, orphaned child who grew up in the sporting school that required and inculcated in me to speak the way that I i do and the tensions of that.
00:12:44
Speaker
And I am from both places and and carry both of those places on my tongue and in my language. Yeah. Your mom passed away when you were 11 years old. Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker
What about your dad? and My dad passed away when I was 16, but my father was a, what I call a fun times parent. Um, Because my my parents were separated. he was... The reason why I say I was raised by a single mother is because my father was there, but not in the ways in which children need, right? Not in in in the in the nurturing and in the important ways.
00:13:19
Speaker
He was a lovely, beautiful, creative man that I love dearly. but He didn't ah parent me. He was there to take me out to buy clothes and go and, you know, explore the world and try new foods and take me to jazz events and all of those fun and lovely things. And i have a particular love for music and for for cultural things as a result.
00:13:47
Speaker
of that relationship with him. But I don't believe that that is parenting. And so I was raised by a single parent. And when my father passed away when I was 16, we had a relationship, but being a teenage girl at the time needing parenting, it it wasn't a parent-child relationship. It was a friendship, which is okay, but that's that's not the relationship I needed from him at the time.
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah. And that period when you lost your mom at such a young age, What was the impact? Talk us through the impact on it for you.
Navigating Identity and Public Perception
00:14:20
Speaker
I think losing my mother fundamentally changed the trajectory of my life in in very um profound ways.
00:14:28
Speaker
My mother died 1998 and she died um h i v So this happened at a time in our life when the AIDS question was a big question where we had an AIDS epidemic in South Africa and our government was essentially lying about how serious the situation is.
00:14:47
Speaker
And ah to have a parent die of AIDS at that time with the stigma was ah a really difficult thing for me to understand because of age, but also because my mother was open about it. I know this not because I heard it from anyone else, but because at 11 years old, she had her doctor sit us down as her children to explain what her condition is and what it means.
00:15:12
Speaker
And it was really profoundly moving for me because i once my mother died, I decided that I was going to be the first woman president of South Africa, not necessarily because I had any political dreams, but she the doctor was explaining to me about how she would not be able to access the in the medicine that she needed because the government was not allowing at the time antiretrovirals into this country.
00:15:41
Speaker
And that seemed to me as an 11-year-old, the most stupidest thing, right? And so when AIDS eventually killed my mother, I decided that we needed better presidents and that I would be the better president and I would ensure that no other child has to live without their parent as a result of of illness. And so that's how the trajectory of my life changed.
00:16:03
Speaker
But I think also what happened there that I wasn't aware of is that My mother's death is also the reason why I became a journalist because my family lied about what killed her because of the stigma.
00:16:15
Speaker
And I was very, i carried a lot of shame because of that for a very, very long time. And it was only when I got older and decided to switch my career aspirations from politics to journalism that i told the story of what had killed my mother and why we had lied and finally released myself from that shame. And so the importance of being honest, of telling our stories in particular kinds of ways is also a result of that. So it was an incredibly painful situation that has meant that my life has taken the the sort of journey that it has.
00:16:51
Speaker
And I think that that's a good thing, yeah despite the grief. Yeah, despite the kind of tragedy behind it. and You mentioned earlier on that being Zulu woman is one of your identities, but not at the top.
00:17:04
Speaker
So talk us through kind of how you see your identities. I consider, so yes, I am i am black first. um One of the many the major majority of the many black peoples of the world. am black, I am queer.
00:17:22
Speaker
um Second, i am feminist immediately after that. And then I'm Zulu. ah So those those are my my identities. Sometimes depending on the space that I'm in, they shift around. But I'm always black first. I'm black queer woman. I am black queer feminist woman and Zulu woman as well. So what what does being a black feminist queer woman mean for you in your context in South Africa, in the world, in the work that you do?
00:17:53
Speaker
I think for me it means that the political is personal. It means that for better for worse, whether I like it or not, my body is a contested space in the world, in my family, my communities, that my body is considered public space, that it's considered contested space.
00:18:15
Speaker
And that even with acknowledging that and knowing that this is how, unfortunately, I have to live, that I belong deeply and only in and first and foremost to myself and that i owe it to myself to do work that tries to create a world that will treat bodies like mine with a little bit more kindness and a little bit more compassion and it is incumbent upon me to do that and so regardless of the space that I am in it may be a corporate space it may be a social space that it is incumbent upon me to try and create a world
00:18:51
Speaker
where bodies that are like mine are not contested public space because they are not. These are our vessels and these are our homes and yet are treated as if they belong to anyone but us when they belong to us and only us.
00:19:07
Speaker
and deeply to us. Absolutely. I mean, you've got a vast number of experiences in the media, whether a at ANCA, radio, but also in terms of advocacy work around gender, race, sexuality, all of those things.
00:19:24
Speaker
When you reflect on that journey for you and then this you know this work in the media how is all of those combined to shape your narrative in terms of where you are in in your media journey i think it's a it's a difficult ah question for me to answer because i'm currently sitting at attention of having a public profile which I created inadvertently and also wanting to be very private and very ordinary and figuring out how I can be both.
00:20:01
Speaker
yeah And so my media career, I no longer currently work as a journalist. i'm I'm in media development at the moment. I run a media development program here in South Africa, but I'm still considered a journalist in South Africa because I worked as a journalist for so long before leaving that space.
00:20:19
Speaker
And that comes with with certain and things, especially in the world of not just misinformation and disinformation, but of digital violence against women journalists and then digital violence against queer people. And so I find myself more and more...
00:20:36
Speaker
wanting to take a step back to be quieter, to be more ordinary, less seen, more private, but also having to hold the tension that the work that I so deeply believe in and want to put into the world requires my face and my voice.
00:20:52
Speaker
to elevate it and push it forward. So that's why I can't answer the question. I'm sitting with that tension and that difficulty and and not knowing where to go yet, but also being okay to sit with the uncertainty of it and the discomfort of it and just rest in that and hoping and trusting myself that I'll figure it out when the time is right.
00:21:16
Speaker
yeah yeah but Yeah. So you're currently, you mentioned about the work that you do in media development. You're currently lead the program director at Amplify South Africa, which is part of MDIF, the Media Development Investment Fund.
00:21:27
Speaker
So obviously you're dealing with media development in the context so of also economic resilience and all of that. Speak to me about the environment when it comes to economic resilience, media, and potentially also gender in that
Challenges and Future of Journalism
00:21:41
Speaker
context.
00:21:41
Speaker
It makes me quite emotional because our industry is in crisis. The news media industry is in crisis. A crisis that, in my opinion, has been bubbling over for about a decade.
00:21:55
Speaker
A crisis that is not only about money. And I get quite emotional because... everyone I feel as though it this crisis is now getting the attention it deserves because it started to impact the pockets of those who would have... wo The beneficiaries of the status quo. Thank you.
00:22:17
Speaker
The beneficiaries of the status quo. And that makes me emotional and angry because journalists have been... um talking about the the problems and the issues and the bubbling crisis for a while and also doing it very quietly because we are taught and trained not to become the story, right?
00:22:38
Speaker
And so raising the alarm but also feeling like we can only do it with a muted voice. We can't do it in ways, we can't truly self-advocate in the ways in which we imagine to self-advocate for the communities, the marginalized communities and people whose stories we share as journalists.
00:22:55
Speaker
So the space is in crisis and the crisis is not just about money and economic viability. Money and economic viability and sustainability are, of course, important because people have to put food on the table.
00:23:08
Speaker
But the crisis is deeper than that. it's ah It's a crisis of accountability. It is a crisis of what is journalism for? Why is it that journalism is important as the fourth estate to hold power to account So why is it that in their ways in which we have begun as journalists, as news media, because I count myself amongst them, why are we colluding with power in the ways in which we tell stories and the stories that we do tell and the stories that we don't tell, right?
00:23:39
Speaker
And also, why are we reproducing harmful power even within the organizations where we work, where the news leaders are underpaying journalists, not properly training journalists, putting journalists Journalists in dangerous situations without having security protocols, creating, ah you know, working environments that are toxic, et cetera, where people, where journalists begin to struggle with um dependencies on alcohol, on drugs, on smoke.
00:24:08
Speaker
There's a bigger conversation to be had than money, right? Absolutely. But to go to the conversation of money is to say the the advent, the digital revolution and and the advent of big tech has gutted newsrooms in very real and meaningful ways. And what we're trying to do with Amplify South Africa is to figure out...
00:24:29
Speaker
um Yes, figure out what new revenue strategies need to look like and what new audience strategies need to look like. But more importantly, um we're thinking through resilience as part of a leadership development imperative.
00:24:44
Speaker
So what kind of leaders do we need to be to meet this moment and to be ready for the moment that is coming? You know, what are the things that we need to learn, not just about revenue, not just about strategy, not just about business development, but about leadership, about people so that they they follow you, about how you create visions that are going to ins ensure that the independent news media that we have in this country and on this continent will requires that we have free and equitable democracies that work yeah what kind of journalists do we have to be today to create those kinds of African countries for ourselves and us grappling with that as we grapple with okay we also need to make money you know
00:25:33
Speaker
and grow audiences, et cetera. But I think for me, what is the centerpiece of the Amplify South Africa program is that leadership development and is the grappling with the kind of leaders that we need to be, the kind of or rather need to become, the kind of leaders we need to become, the kind of journalists that we need to become to meet this very important moment and to prepare ourselves and be ready for the moment that is to come. Because AI is is going to be so disruptive newsrooms and how can we prepare for that?
00:26:11
Speaker
Hi everyone, so permit me to introduce you to the Kigali Declaration, which is a groundbreaking commitment by African women in media to bring gender equality, representation and respect into every newsroom across the continent.
00:26:25
Speaker
By signing up, media organizations are pledging to tackle gender biases, amplify women's voices and create safer spaces, more inclusive workplaces for everyone. Now imagine a media landscape that treats every story with balance and every voice with dignity.
00:26:41
Speaker
by adopting the Kigali Declaration, it's not just a commitment, it's a powerful step towards social change. And that starts with every one of us. And so if you're ready to be part of this change, visit the official Kigali Declaration website at africanwomeninmedia.com slash declaration to learn more and to sign up.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I'll suggest this it is already disruptive. And there's three things in what you said I really want us to sit with for a little bit. Firstly, in terms of what you said about big tech and recently about AI.
00:27:20
Speaker
Secondly, in terms of leadership. And then the other area which just slipped my mind. That's what old age with three kids does to you sometimes. Anyway.
00:27:32
Speaker
Honestly, sometimes I'm just so in the moment and it's like, what what did I just think? yeah so I hope it will come back. It will definitely come back because it's like, yes, what you said about what kind of journalists we need to become. So um reflecting on, let's start with big tech, AI and emerging technologies. so Mm-hmm.
00:27:54
Speaker
You're in an environment where obviously you're seeing a lot of players coming in with new ideas, you know, seeking opportunities for support, for development. What should we be getting really excited about?
00:28:06
Speaker
And what do you think that within that excitement that you think we should be thinking a lot more about that perhaps could be a repetition of existing more negative aspects of tech when it comes to media and particularly when it comes to that intersection of media and gender?
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think that we should be excited about, cautiously excited about AI and how it can transform newsrooms and how it can transform with the work that we do.
00:28:38
Speaker
My biggest excitement around AI um and as I'm learning more and and seeing some of the developments is the potential that it has to give us our lives back and our time back.
00:28:53
Speaker
right? In ways that I think would be beautiful and brilliant if we get it right. What does it look like to be able to have a six hour work day in a four day work week because we have been able to employ AI tools in such a way that the certain things are so efficient, right? That means we have more time for joy, more time with our families, more time to be creative, imaginative, to do other things.
00:29:22
Speaker
And so, I hope that we are able to intervene in the conversations and developments around AI to ensure that it works for the betterment of of humanity and for our good as opposed to working against us in the ways in which has happened with with big tech. And the power of AI, AI can give us ah will like some of our lives back, some of our time back, which is the most scarce resource that we all have as human beings in a capitalistic system.
00:29:54
Speaker
So that is my that's my excitement around ai and trying to think through What would that look like? I'm also excited about some of the developments around ai that are happening in South Africa, where there are a group of developers thinking through how they can do large language models that in South African languages, in Zulu.
00:30:14
Speaker
in siswadi in sibedi i'm excited about the possibility of what that means for people's access to information what that means being able to access information in your mother tongue this is the thing that was you know almost unheard of when i was growing up this is why i had to learn english in the ways that i speak it this is why i'm now thinking english as opposed to thinking in Zulu, right? What would the world look like if people were able to receive the same kind of quality information in their mother tongues and not need to translate back and forth in their heads?
00:30:48
Speaker
That makes me excited ah in terms of, you know, the possibilities and the access. But obviously there are a lot of potential pitfalls and dangers. And I think the important thing is to get to really keep a close eye on the policymaking around it and what that looks like.
00:31:06
Speaker
And for Africa... for our continent to be serious about the policy making and not allow the AI companies to do in this continent what big tech has done, you know, which is to try and influence and lobby around policies that don't protect our people and the populations, but protect big tech more.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so, which brings me on to my next question around leadership. So, you know, we've done a lot of research, our focus is on women in media,
00:31:38
Speaker
And obviously we continue to see that gap in terms of women owning media, women in leadership and positions in the media across the continent. Obviously we've changed with differences between countries, I think maybe in Southern Africa, in South Africa particularly, it's it's much better than perhaps other parts of the continent. um When you then connect that with kind of the digital media and the advancements in that, and then the aspects of media development in terms of economic resilience.
00:32:09
Speaker
What are some of the, again, how would you like to see things done differently here forward, right? In this era of AI? Because there's a lot of things to be excited about.
00:32:19
Speaker
And we see a lot of projects. I just saw one recently in Nigeria with female AI and presenters, right? Which is very exciting, but it's also like feeds into that scary notion of AI taking away our jobs, that kind of thing, right? But when you think about women in leadership and the opportunities for that in this era of AI, especially also in this era of issues tensions with economic resilience.
00:32:47
Speaker
How would you like to see things reshaped going forward? I believe that what AI and the deepening of big tech is going to do is that it's going to make connection and authenticity very, very valuable, right? Because That will be a thing that the AI presenter cannot do.
00:33:11
Speaker
um I think that the world is going to get to a place where, and I'm concerned about this, but where the way we access information becomes so tailored to the individual, right?
00:33:23
Speaker
that smaller community media is going to become much more important and much more trusted than what we've seen in the past. So thinking through that, um the question about what what needs to change for leaders in general, and for women leaders in particular, is I think that we need to become leaders that are okay with not being the smartest person.
00:33:47
Speaker
in the room. I believe that what is coming for us with AI and the ways in which it's going to deepen big tech's infiltration of our lives is that everything is going to become so tailored to the individual, right? I predict a ah bigger and ongoing erosion of public trust in the media, particularly the bigger outfits.
00:34:08
Speaker
And so what that means is that community media is going to become increasingly important while smaller community outfits are going to become much more important. Niche media is going to become much more important ah in in in the coming years.
00:34:24
Speaker
ah But the thing that I think is going to become increasingly valuable is the ability to connect with human beings from one human being to the next. And so authenticity is going to become incredibly valuable in a time when we are interfacing with AI presenters, for example. And so what that means about what kind of leaders we need and we need to become for media leaders in general, but specifically women media leaders, I think is to lean in into intuition because intuition is
00:34:59
Speaker
is this unspoken knowing between human beings that informs authenticity to lean yeah into that as a tool. It's going to require us to be okay with not being the smartest person in the room or the most experienced person person in the room.
00:35:16
Speaker
So it's going to require a teachable spirit yeah and a listening ear. We're going to need to listen much closer to our audiences, but also to our teams who are going to be reflections and in important ways of those audiences and require a listening ear.
00:35:34
Speaker
and A remembering that there is no such thing as the voiceless, right? They are the unheard, the ones that are not listened to, the ones whose voice, but there is no one without a voice.
00:35:47
Speaker
And so so to not approach storytelling from that savior perspective of, oh, I'm telling the stories of the voice of the voiceless and whatnot, right? And to co-create with with our audience, to co-create the storytelling is going to become important. Those are the leadership traits that I think are are crucial to this time. And also to realize that the journalism is not enough.
00:36:11
Speaker
It breaks my heart to say this, but it's not. The journalism and the storytelling is not enough. um This moment requires more of us. We need to begin to learn how to think strategically. And if you don't have the skill set,
00:36:24
Speaker
Try and find it and accumulate as much. There's a reason, you know, why I think there's, was joking with a friend that suddenly so many people are um coaches, right? There's like a boom. It's a booming industry right now.
00:36:38
Speaker
And that's because... ah Many leaders are realizing, at least the ones that have access to to future proofing kind of information, that you need to be more than just what you do. And so for media leaders is to say, you need to be more than just a journalist.
00:36:51
Speaker
The journalism and the storytelling is no longer in enough. You need to learn how to think strategically. And this is some of the work that we try to do in Amplify South Africa so that when another crisis comes, when ah another disruption comes, you're not stuck in the kind of same...
00:37:08
Speaker
doing what you know you're able to pivot. And pivoting is, ah is is ah is ah for me, a product of strategic thinking and imagination.
00:37:19
Speaker
So we also need to be imaginative leaders, creative leaders. That means we need to rest, prioritize rest and prioritize play. Because that's what engages the imagination in particular and the creativity that strategic thinking requires to allow you to pivot in interesting and creative ways.
00:37:39
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely. So switching back to you and now, as we round up the interview, you've been on a tremendous journey and and and i imagine you're interacting with a lot of media organizations and individuals in your current role at Amplify South Africa.
00:37:55
Speaker
What's next for you? What's next for me?
00:38:01
Speaker
You're asking such big questions.
00:38:06
Speaker
That's what like to do here. That's what we like to do here. I usually have a quick answer in my pocket for that. um Getting older, i think I'm a little bit more open to surrender.
00:38:22
Speaker
So I don't know what's next. I think I'm enjoying the work at Amplify South Africa and I'm looking forward to ah seeing what 2025 looks like for the cohort of organizations that we're working with and some of like the interesting ideas we have. I'm really excited about that.
00:38:40
Speaker
I think what is next for me at the moment is outside of, you know, just that work piece um in terms of my job is probably writing.
00:38:51
Speaker
I've spent the past three years or so not writing so much, trying to stay out of the media and not do interviews. I have been less successful with that. i i was going to say, so you're giving us like an exclusive today. So very privileged. Yeah.
00:39:06
Speaker
I've been turning down quite a number of interviews. um But i I did that because i I wanted to develop the muscle of listening. I wanted to learn how to listen because I realized at some point that listening is a skill and I wanted to build that muscle. And so I called the past four years of my life, my listening years, trying to listen a little bit more than I speak.
00:39:30
Speaker
I spent a lot of my time speaking as a feminist activist. I'm always speaking, agitating, protesting and decided to be quiet a bit. By being quiet, I've learned quite a bit.
00:39:41
Speaker
I've learned a lot about listening, about the things that you find in the quiet and in the stillness. And I'm wanting to write about that um and the the things that I've discovered. so Probably a lot more writing coming from me.
00:39:55
Speaker
i i feel like I have more trust in my voice as well. So probably going to di um delve a little bit into analysis, political analysis kind of writing. So what do South African and African politics look like when you look at them through a feminist lens? I'm going to do a bit of that. And also I've been grief and grieving longer than my mother was alive. I've been in grief and grieving.
00:40:22
Speaker
for most of my adult life. And in COVID, when I started my sort of listening years and I was sitting in my apartment during the lockdown, I realized because there was so much grief in 2020 and 2021, right, over the loss of jobs, loss of futures, loss of, it dawned on me that we don't have spaces for communal grief, collective grief anymore.
00:40:51
Speaker
And I've been sitting with and i with that and and thinking, what does it look like to open up space and to hold space for grief? And that right now is going to look like a podcast, but thinking through as well, what organizing with women looks like around creating spaces for grief.
00:41:09
Speaker
I think that we need to do better for each other and for ourselves and how grief is processed, how it's held in society, and for it to stop being this thing that you know is swept under the carpet and that you can live a big journey fulfilled, fulfilling, interesting life and joyful life and still hold grief at the same time. yeah yeah Because we are expansive enough for that and we don't have to hide grief and just figuring out then what what what that communal space of grieving would look like.
00:41:43
Speaker
And as I'm saying, currently it might be a podcast, but something else. But that's what's next. It's Amplify SA. It's doing the best we can and giving it our best shot and hopefully having some really great ah progress with our cohorts. It's writing a little bit more, um writing about politics through a feminist lens and other things through a feminist lens, because I think the world needs feminism in this moment with everything that is happening globally. Yes, yes, yes. Allowed it. Yes, absolutely. And me, feminist thought.
00:42:15
Speaker
And also then thinking through, I think that we are going into a period that's going to bring even more grief. And we do not have the infrastructure in place as a people anymore to hold grief. And how do we do that? And grappling with that. yeah Yeah, yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure spending this morning with you, Nawazee. Did I pronounce it well?
00:42:38
Speaker
Yes. beautifully yes you did it's been a pleasure spending this morning with you i can tell that you are in a very mindful space which is really good i think sometimes it takes us a while to really own that really and to really even accept that as a as a space to be in and it's really important like you said last few years, a decade the pandemic years has is really taught us the importance of that more inward silence and reflection.
00:43:07
Speaker
think we need to embrace that as a more positive kind of place to be. So thank you so much for sharing your truth, sharing you and your stories. It's been such a pleasure hearing from you.
00:43:17
Speaker
Thank you so much for inviting me. I've been excited about this interview since I received the invitation. I listened to this. This is one of the first podcasts I started listening to. So it is an absolute honor and joy to have been able to be in conversation with you. Thank you for the invitation.
00:43:34
Speaker
Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
00:43:46
Speaker
Nawazi talks about the challenges currently facing the media industry, particularly in light of technological advancements like artificial intelligence, AI. She emphasizes the need to keep a close eye on policymaking around AI and for Africa to be really serious about this policymaking and not allow AI companies to do with the continent what big tech has done so far.
00:44:12
Speaker
Nawazi also addresses the often overlooked topic of communal recognizing the need for spaces where individuals can process their emotions collectively.
00:44:24
Speaker
Her insight into leadership and journalism is particularly compelling, and she advocates for a shift towards more inclusive and empathetic leadership styles.
00:44:36
Speaker
As always, drop me an email at emc at africanwomeninmedia.com with your thoughts. And please do also let me know if you'd like to join me or recommend somebody to join me on the podcast for an episode.
00:44:48
Speaker
To find out more about African Women in Media and our work, visit our main website at africanwomeninmedia.com. And in the show notes, there's a list of organizations and resources to support you if you have experienced any of the topics we've discussed today. And don't forget to subscribe and follow Media Diary on all your favorite podcast platforms.
00:45:07
Speaker
And you can tune in to our partner radio stations from across Africa. And don't forget to join the conversation using the hashtag Her Media Diary.
00:45:22
Speaker
Hemidu Diary is a product of African Women in Media, an NGO advocating for gender equality in the media industry. And this episode was hosted by Dr. Yemisi Akimbobola, produced and edited by Blessing O'Dob as part of a five-episode series on media and sustainability.
00:45:39
Speaker
All music featured in this podcast is by Nana Kwabena. Thanks for listening and join us again next time.