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The Road to Olmec - Ep 30
278 Plays1 month ago
Matilda is joined this week by Raven Todd DaSilva (who you might recognise as the face behind the very popular “Dig It With Raven” YouTube channel), to talk about the colossal stone heads of the Olmec Culture. Why were these huge heads made? What do they have to do with rubber? And why hasn’t Raven posted a video on her channel for a year? Find out the answers to these questions and more by tuning in today!
Transcripts
- For rough transcripts of this episode go to https://www.archpodnet.com/teabreak/30
Links
- Paper on Olmec Culture
- World History article on the Olmec Stone Heads
- Discover magazine article on the Olmec Stone Heads
- Raven’s YouTube Channel
- Waterstones pre-order
- Thalia pre-order
- Barnes and Noble pre-order
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. um You're listening to Tea Break Time Travel, where every month we look at a different archaeological object and take you on a journey into their past.
Meet the Hosts and Guests
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to episode 30 of Tea Break Time Travel. I'm your host, Matilda Ziebrech. Today I am savoring a Roibos caramel tea, because it's late while we're recording this and I don't need any more caffeine, but I still need something a little bit yeah tougher to get me to get me through the evening, shall we say. And joining me on my tea break today is the one, the only, Raven Todd De Silva.
00:00:40
Speaker
archaeologist, conservator, science communicator, who you might know through her platform, Dig It With Raven. and So very welcome,
Tea Time with Matilda and Raven
00:00:47
Speaker
Raven. And what are you drinking today? Oh, I am drinking a, just a fresh hot ginger tea, actually, ginger lemon. It's my classic, my i go to.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's, that's good. But with fresh ginger, fresh ginger, fresh lemon, just, you know, good for the immune system, digestion, everything. And actually, as I said that fresh ginger, of course, it's going to be fresh. Why would you put like ginger powder? That was a really stupid question. There's teabags, you know, the people that sit there, you know, all that. Yeah, there you go. So are you going full, full, full natural ginger chunks, size of the lemon honey?
00:01:26
Speaker
No, not really. I'm not. I like it better. It's really, I can keep it times too. Like I'll boil it down or I'll grate it and really get like a ginger concentrate.
00:01:38
Speaker
Wow. Okay. Okay. isn't that fair That's great. Good tea. Good tea choice. So okay, it sounds like both of us are trying to power through that. Yeah, if you've got your 11, I've got my caramel. Great. Well, thank you so so much for joining me today. It's very exciting to have you on. And I am especially interested to hear your answer to this question.
Raven's Archaeological Journey
00:01:58
Speaker
It's one is a question I ask all my guests because the road to and within archaeology is wide and varied, and everyone walks a different path. So I'm very curious, what was your path? How did you first become interested in this tangled web of archaeology? yeah Oh goodness, I feel like it's such a very typical answer, but... There have been any typical answers on this one, to be fair. Everyone said something different.
00:02:24
Speaker
like I feel like mine just is very like that quintessential like, you know, you I was almost I think I was three, four years old. And you get interested in this, like one video from the public library taking out over and over and over again. And it was the story of the Lara Fon and the Pegasus.
00:02:45
Speaker
And it was like a cartoon. I don't think a three year old should have been watching that, but I definitely was. And somehow I just, I don't know how I kept taking it out of the library, but I think it must have been like every other week, it was just, you know, I'd bring it back and go back on the shelf. I'd get it out again. And I just loved watching it. And then, you know, as the, you know, very, very, very quickly after that became obsessed with ancient Egypt as I feel like most young kids do who get into archaeology. And the pyramids and King Tut, of course. And it just kind of stuck for a really long time. And I was it like, since I was like six, I was like, I want to be an archaeologist. Didn't even think I knew what the word meant, really, at that time. But I wanted to go to Egypt and dig up the cool things. I loved going to the Royal Ontario Museum. Shout out to the ROM in Toronto, Ontario, the best museum in the world. And it was just always so
00:03:40
Speaker
awe inspiring, I guess for me. So yeah, it's been one of those stupid things where I've just been sucked in right from the start into the the MLM, I guess. some ah but your Was your specialism also in ancient Egypt? Or did you which direction did you go in at the beginning?
00:03:58
Speaker
So I did start in ancient Egypt. So I did like my bachelor was sort of like Roman and Egyptian archaeology. I did the whole hieroglyphs classes. mistake It was it was the one of the hardest classes I think I've ever done, but probably the one that I've actually put the most effort into. surprising So that was nice. And then I like kind of transitioned at some point. So I thought, well, I don't like digging up thing was, especially in Canada, like going on digs and things was extremely difficult and expensive as a student, especially.
00:04:37
Speaker
So then I kind of pivoted into archaeological conservation. So I was like, well, I'll just deal with all this stuff when it comes out of the ground. That makes more sense. And then I went back because I was like, I feel like a fraud. So then I went back and.
00:04:53
Speaker
It's a very safe space here. You're a monk's fellow and post excavation archaeologist. Yeah, thank you. Especially when I started the YouTube channel, I was just like, nope, I'm a fraud. I'm not a real archaeologist. So I went back and I did another Masters intending to do Egyptian archaeology because my conservation master is also focused on like Egyptian limestone bowls from the pre-dynastic.
Raven's Research Interests
00:05:16
Speaker
And then something happened during the Masters. It was like archaeology and heritage of Egypt in the Middle East and the Neolithic sort of just like crept up on me in a weird way. And I'm obsessed with the Neolithic Southwest Asia. And that is my area of specialty. Amazing. That is a very specific area of specialism as well, especially for someone who got into ancient Egypt as a star. What was it? Was there a particular site? Was there a particular object that like, brought that interest?
00:05:45
Speaker
They were the plasters plastered skulls. they are just My weird obsession. I don't know. i wasn't looking I wasn't looking for them. I was writing a paper about something completely different and then someone had just mentioned it in one of the articles I was reading.
00:06:01
Speaker
And I just went, what are what are you talking about, plastered skulls? like What are these things? And then I just became obsessed. Yeah, that ended up being my dissertation. And now I have a board filled with all of the photos and like red string attaching to the map. like pepeil Is it Pepe Silvia from Always Sunny?
00:06:21
Speaker
I can't remember the day, but I know what you mean. That meme from Always Sunny, that is exactly what the word is, and it just it's just filled with skulls covered in plaster with strange eyes, and it's in my bedroom, which is very creepy. I have to admit, it's...
00:06:37
Speaker
yeah I mean, are we really archaeologists if we don't have something random and creepy in our bedroom related to some prehistoric culture? Related to some weird death thing. Exactly. Yeah. yeah but So it's very on brand. But yeah, I just I love them so much. And everyone looks at them and they go, those are really creepy and kind of gross. I'm like, no, but they're so pretty. And my babies.
Historical Curiosities
00:07:01
Speaker
and We should do it. I mean, really, I should have had you up for that. We'll just have to have you up for another episode so we can talk about them because they sound fascinating. I will 100% talk about those two on blue in the face. Great. I will mark you in for an upcoming episode. So look forward to hearing back about that to everyone. If you want to hear about these plastered skulls, make sure to follow, like, subscribe, etc. And you'll get them eventually. Okay, great. So Okay, it sounds like you've had quite a ah turnaround in sort of directions taken, I guess not as many as some people have had, but if you could then travel back in time, seeing as you've had such a wide variety of interests, is there a particular point that you would go to in time or a particular culture, a particular region? I feel like this changes year to year for me.
00:07:48
Speaker
It's one of those weird ones where I'm just, you can never really, it's there's just too many fun places to go and to witness. Like I don't know if I'd want to witness like a key point in history, but more of like the everyday stuff and just seeing like,
00:08:04
Speaker
life in general like I love I'm obsessed you know a little bit more recent the Victorian era in the UK especially just they're just they were wild they're a little bit weird they were doing some crazy stuff just intrigued but like archaeologically speaking um oh it's a hard one like I've got to go with sometime I around you know Mesopotamia you know, when the ziggurat of Ur was at its height would be like really cool. After digging at Troy, I feel like going back there. Okay, you just drop that in there, just casually after digging at Troy. Sorry.
00:08:46
Speaker
know
00:08:48
Speaker
Very cool. Very cool. Just to say. It was really fun. Like not like for the Trojan orbit, but the one that the thousand years before where they, you know, were actually been found that really big gate and the big ramp. So the gates of Troy. And you're like, no, that's actually a thousand years ahead of time. Oh, that was, that looked really cool. And like working on that and I was like, that would be a really nice spot. Or I think another one would just be the,
00:09:16
Speaker
Ah, you know, I would really love to go to Peru and just see all the like pre-Columbian cultures just thriving in the rainforest and stuff. Just be so cool.
00:09:28
Speaker
ah Okay, so it sounds like you need a sort of round-trip ticket, see the world, take a gap year, just just go go back in time to multiple different places, multiple different locations. Exactly. I need like a time turner from Harry Potter, and then just take me everywhere because it's just, it's it's so hard for me to decide. I know some people have like exact places where they would want to go, but it's just, I guess, you know, the anthropology side of archaeology, we just want to experience how people were living all over the place and get down to the nitty gritty.
00:09:58
Speaker
Yeah, which I think which is quite nice. And I think I've said this in nearly every episode, how everyone always in the pick something and it's never a big fancy event. It's always just seeing every day and just sitting and watching people, which I think is quite fascinating. Why we do archaeology, I guess.
Exploring Olmec Civilization
00:10:15
Speaker
Well, thank you very, very much for joining my tea break today. And before we look at today's object, which is not the plastered skulls, I'm sorry to say, but they are head related, one might say.
00:10:27
Speaker
We're going to journey back to around 1000 BC to what we would now call Mexico. Very exciting, first time journeying back to this part of the world. The heat of the day has cooled into a sticky evening as we look out over the rolling hills and the swampy flood plains that surround us. Suddenly, a sound reaches our ears, a rhythmic ringing thump that cuts through the birdsong and the wearing insects. We follow it to emerge into a large clearing dominated by a huge boulder of dark, rough stone.
00:10:57
Speaker
Deep grooves cut into the ground lead away from it to the edge of the clearing, where the piles of rope and stacked wooden portable rails show the manner of its transportation to its current location, for there are no similar rocks nearby. Around the boulder there are three figures, each one with various tools and hammers, chipping and smashing at the rough stone with clear, strong intent.
00:11:18
Speaker
We stay there for a while, and as the days pass, every chip and groove will deepen and lengthen until finally the boulder will be transformed into a beautifully carved head with a broad nose, wide lips, hooded eyes, and decorated helmet. So today we're going to look at the Olmec Colossal Heads, which I think is one of my favourite names for anything. We'll get into the details very soon, but first and let's have a very quick break.
00:11:45
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. So, as always, something that I usually like to look at when we sort of start talking about the objects are the most asked questions on the internet, courtesy of Google search, to see what other people want to find out about the object, because I assume that that's what most people listen again, either know about or want to find out about. So, seeing as we have a Raven with us here today, who happens to have written a fantastic book featuring a chapter on these colossal Olmuck heads,
00:12:13
Speaker
I think we might be able to get some answers. So the first question, it was actually surprisingly simple with these ones. There were very few questions and they were all pretty much to the point along the lines of what do the Olmec heads represent, which I guess interpret that as you will. So what what answer would you give to that question? Oh, okay. So I guess we can say like what I I'm going to take it very literal of like, who are the Olmec?
00:12:43
Speaker
heads representing. We can go philosophical about it later, but let's go right with the basics. So all of the heads are you know very realistic. They're not very idealized. They're unidealized. They're very frank you know descriptions, depictions of men. They are likely portraits of living or reasonably deceased rulers. That's sort of the general consensus nowadays.
00:13:09
Speaker
good They're all very distinct. If you look at them, like they're all, and you can see that they're like definitely portraits of someone because they're very natural looking. They all have individualistic features. So they probably were very well known by the sculptor, you know, like this prominent person's face.
00:13:25
Speaker
So that's really cool. At first, they were thought to represent ballplayers. So the Mesoamerican ballgame, the very popular ballgame. Oh, like the ballgame, the stone hip thing and the the the rings. but Yeah, totally. Accurate, right? like That one. i don't i'm I'm not a ball game expert. I'm just thinking of what's that Disney film? Is it El Dorado? was a Road to El Dorado. So good. Yeah. Did they play the ball game with that? It's one of those films. They played a game, I think. Yeah. Maybe? I think so. I feel like they took the ball off their hips. Yeah, they to bun bounce it, bounce it, bounce it, and get through a thing. I don't know if that's an accurate depiction. I'm going to be honest. It's definitely an accurate depiction. really a fun depiction. but Yeah. and like Please, re please see the Rotel Dorado cartoons. I'll add that to the show notes. as a rest Academic reference. there is so the whole yeah Oh, because they would have had to wear helmets because the helmet was heavy or something.
00:14:28
Speaker
Yes. And so you can see in these heads that they have these very distinct like helmets. And so they think that they're ball game helmets. Obviously, they could be for war. There's all these theories. But yeah, so they probably represented or incorporated like very the very concept or ideals of Olmec kingship, rulership, power. Some think that they were, you know, protective, something that the heads themselves like possessed the power of the ruler or represent you know almost like the prima porta you know Augustus where he like put a statue all around the empire to be like this is my representation of my power
00:15:10
Speaker
et cetera. In case you forget what I look like. Here I am. Exactly. All right. I am always watching. So there's lots of things like that. But yeah, the helmets themselves as well are like very individualistic and distinct. They have some have claws, some have ropes on them. So they're all different, which is really cool.
00:15:29
Speaker
And have they found any archaeological, I mean, this I know this sounds very far fetched, but have they found you never know? Have they found any, for example, archaeological evidence of similar helmets from this region and culture at all?
00:15:44
Speaker
not that I am aware of, they would have been made out of leather or some sort of organic material. So when I survived, yeah, there's not a lot surviving in that, that sort of climate that's organic. It's very lucky we actually just they have not we have not been there.
00:15:59
Speaker
but archae at the archaeological way. yeah they They have found some wooden carvings dating to quite a while ago, actually predating the stone head. So they definitely did carve in wood. But yeah, we haven't found any helmets that that I'm aware of. Okay, ah that would be that would be the find the find of a century.
00:16:19
Speaker
which actually you leads nicely into the next question which we had which are where are the Olmec heads located and where were they created which ah so I mentioned a little bit in the opening Mexico trying to keep it very vague was that correct? Are they in that region? Are they spread far and wide?
Challenges in Ancient Engineering
00:16:36
Speaker
So there are 17 confirmed examples that are in Mexico. There is one like possible one that's in Guatemala, but you know oh it's not confirmed yet. It's like a throne that may have been carved from a colossal head, so you know it's a little bit damaged. We won't be able to properly confirm it until maybe more science.
00:16:56
Speaker
but we have 10 in San Lorenzo, we have 10 at the site of La Venta, sorry not 10, four at the site of La Venta, two at another site called Tres Apotes, and another one at a site called La Copata. So those are like the main areas where they're located, where were they made,
00:17:16
Speaker
So all of the 17 confirmed ones, they're all carved from basalt, so it's like a very hard stone. And that stone came from the Sierra de los Tuslas Mountains in Veracruz. It's a very like coarse-grained, dark gray assault called seosyneppec basalt basalt.
00:17:33
Speaker
And that's sort of like found on the southeastern slopes of the mountains. And, you know, yeah, you find a boulder in specific location, like very specific. Wow. They were it's raising. Yeah, you can see it exactly came from here, but they all came from one spot, which is interesting. So they were like, this is the place to get the head rocks.
00:17:53
Speaker
yeah do We need another head rock. Where should we go? Well, let's go back to the volcano. Exactly. Let's go to these mountains. We're going to find some stuff and we're going to do it. But that means that, you know, these these boulders had to be transported sometimes over 150 kilometers from the source of the stone. Wow. So crazy. Yeah. And we don't know how they did it. Well, because of the vegetation, I mean, I'm picturing it as like jungle. But yeah, so and yeah, they were moving these massive stones.
00:18:24
Speaker
Yeah, jungle, mountains, rivers, 150 kilometers. They didn't have bisa burden. They didn't have the wheel. Okay. So yeah, just moving that is a feat. I'm hoping for the best. That's why they spread so sporadically. We're all in this direction. Oh, that went down the river. Okay, that's why it's in Guatemala. They're like, oh, blah. It is now here. It is where it stays. But yeah.
00:18:52
Speaker
But they, you know, there's thoughts of like using water transport, so different sorts of rafts, but like some of the heads they weigh really like a lot. It's quite impractical to move it over, obviously over water, but it's not improbable. Just like the Pyramid of Giza, moving stones over water, it's possible. Yeah. yeah But then eventually, obviously, you have to like go over terrain at some point. And that would have been probably just like moving it on logs and other ramps and things. But there's swamps, there's floodplains, there's undulating hills. they you know Luckily, they had causeways and ramps and roads. But can you imagine just like the earthworks that could of that they had to make to just help make that facilitate the moving of these giant boulders? Yeah, which and where were the boulders? I mean, I'm picturing just a random head in the middle of kind of nowhere, but you mentioned that like one of them was carved into a throne, and they're sort of as outkeep. So they always next to settlements, are they kind of guarding somewhere? Is there any sort of path to where they're located? So this is where it gets kind of
00:19:55
Speaker
interesting and weird and we actually don't know because we found them in so many different contexts and we think that they're not in their original. actual like where they were first put. It's also someone has theorized that they've actually been moved throughout, like the Olmecs themselves moved them around. So who knows, there's one theory where there was four of them at the Venta, and they were placed sort of like around this precinct, like a religious precinct, almost, and they were all facing outward. So they're like, oh, wait, that was put there for protection. And someone had seen Atlantis.
00:20:34
Speaker
probably you know who knows right but like they're thinking like oh it's some sort of like position for stand as guardians of the sacred precinct of the city and protecting it but so like there's other cultures as well right like with oh yeah like on the outside and yeah Yeah, like markers or things like protection things. Others are like, oh, they were moved to other settlements around the neighborhood to be like, I'm your ruler now. But yeah, and then some of like, some of them are buried around 900 BC. And they were, they've all been found in different contexts, which is an issue.
00:21:14
Speaker
And some are half buried, some are buried facing up, so they're like, well, is that like a purposeful burial? Is it not? Did it just fall over? Because they all have the flat backs, they're all kind of flat on the back, which is quite interesting. Yeah, they're not round, they can, you can just like, tip them over and they'll, they won't roll away. Interesting. That's why they were carved into thrones, I guess, you mentioned there was one or two of carved into thrones.
00:21:39
Speaker
So yeah, some some were re-carved from these massive stone thrones. Oh, as in you had a stone throne and then you would get ahead. Yes, so that the the flat back is something that like may have been attributed to this. like four Four don't have it. They don't have this like flat back. So you know it could be like some sort of like stone recycling. Yeah.
00:22:05
Speaker
But also people think if the flatback could have been for transporting, like securing ropes, it's a lot easier to have something with a flatback than a very round thing to transport. So, you know, it could, you know, it's one of those things where is it practical or is there an actual purpose to it? Interesting. Or is it just, c yeah, because that was what the the original object was made from that they, they carved it out of. so Interesting. Very cool. And So I must admit, I have heard of the Aztecs, I've heard of the Mayans, I've heard of the Incans. I have never heard of the Olbeck culture. Who were the Olbeck culture? when When did they live? What were their relationships with these other South American cultures? Or Mesoamerican, I should say.
Legacy of the Olmec
00:22:48
Speaker
Oh, the Olbeck are so cool. So they are regarded as the first civilization to develop in Mesoamerica. Okay.
00:22:55
Speaker
They're one of the first people in the Americas to develop a sophisticated style of stone sculpture. They may have been the first civilization in the Western hemisphere to develop a writing system, oh which is very cool. yeah yeah they're just I think they are definitely one of the unsung heroes, which is why I wanted to highlight them, obviously, in a book that highlights unsung heroes of ancient history. They are also a very strong candidate for originating the Mesoamerican ball game.
00:23:25
Speaker
Okay. So the rubber ball, we found some rubber balls dating to 1600 BCE or even earlier. Yeah. They were found in a bog. Bogs are great for finding organic materials. We love that. Yeah. So that was really cool. But they, they've just done so much. They have like beautiful sculptures of like wear jaguars, which I just, I love that it's just like ah wear a wear jaguar baby. check you are Yeah, it's just like a baby that looks, it's like a cute anthropomorphic small person, but like with a creepy jaguar head, and like like fangs and like a little dent in there. It's just, it's such a fun thing. But they made like, they did a lot of greenstone, you know, mosaics, they did a lot of that kind of stuff first that you kind of always attribute Mesoamerican cultures with, them with you know, the jade, the serpentine. yeah
00:24:18
Speaker
they made these really great dig big pyramids and ceremonial mounds. Okay, they were doing that even all the way back. Yeah, they were at urban centers, they had royal compounds. It was first settled around the first like major city San Lorenzo, it's a hilltop settlement. And they settled around 1800 BCE, and it was a full blown urban city by 1200 BCE.
00:24:42
Speaker
It was essentially Mesoamerica's first city, as we said, and it was the capital of the region. It's just really crazy to think about this the art form starting that early, especially in that part of when we don't hear a lot about it in that part of the world. And you know it's nice that it's being highlighted and celebrated. Yeah. And so you say early, so sorry, what was the, or like, do they know what the kind of starting point would have been for the Olbeck culture date wise?
00:25:09
Speaker
Yeah, so about 1800 BCE is sort of when the first big city kind of came around. okay So that was in the San Lorenzo, that was at San Lorenzo, that was first settled, but then it became like a big thing around like 1200. So that's sort of like the biggest, like, yes, that is the start of the archeological culture, 1200 BCE to 400 BCE.
00:25:33
Speaker
And we get their name from actually the Aztecs, which is really cool. ah Yeah. So they dubbed the area that they, the Olmec Heartland area. <unk> like a crescent-shaped region of southern Veracruz and western Tabasco that kind of hugs the Gulf of Mexico. They called it Oman or Uman, which means the land of rubber in their Nahuatl language. And then they referred to the people who inhabited the region as the Omeka or the Olmeka. And that's where we get Olmeka.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah. so Oh, so so rubber is also an important. Well, actually, I see that we're going to talk about your book a bit later, but I can see indeed that this chapter is entitled Olmec Land of Rubber and Colossal Stone Heads. So it's the I mean, the domain exports of the Olmec So that's it. weve only don't We don't know much really. like that We found some rubber in a bog that dates to around 1600 BCE, e but we don't know much about the Olmec people like who created the Olmec art. We mostly know them from their art. That's it. like it's It's one of those cultures where we know mostly from the art form.
00:26:40
Speaker
But some scholars have proposed that they were migrants from the Pacific coast of Chappas to the south, and they brought with them very early social stratification and upgraded strains of of corn and maize. But of course, others believe it evolved from a local indigenous population. So again, it's this it's the ome that's maybe that's why they don't get as much of attention as I think they deserve. It's just very difficult to to describe a lot of the time if you're doing like a popular history show. Yeah. And were they mentioned by like the colonizers coming in and everything with they because I know that I guess that's where we have the majority of the references to like the Mayans and stuff is from the kind of colonial histories. But with with the Olmec still around at that point? Or had they kind of vanished out? Or how? How did that you know they were They were way too early. So like the traditions and the social rituals and things like they start as early as 1700 BCE. And then it kind of ends around 400 BCE, like the latest. So way before the Europeans even thought about what's on the other side of the ocean, probably. yeah But it didn't really disappear. Like there was something there's the rise of another culture called the Epi Olmec. Okay.
00:27:51
Speaker
they sort of evolved with the changing of the tide. So like the descendants obviously grew drew upon the symbols and iconographies of the Olmec and adopted them into new sculptural political traditions. And that sort of went on a little bit further, but they yeah definitely like started that ritual use of rubber, probably. They had a special calendar that they made. ah They also had a calendar. They had a calendar. It's just they had everything. It was like the development of the Mesoamerican calendar, possibly like they're the OGs, I want to say, of Mesoamerican cultures and civilizations. And then from there, you know, you get the Maya, the Aztec, everybody, and it kind of sort of just like bleeds out from that. Yeah, but they've somehow just, yeah, fallen under under the radar a little bit. Which, I'm curious, sort of, final question before we have a break, is
Symbolism of the Olmec Heads
00:28:41
Speaker
heads. I mean, it seems to be a very specific kind of thing to carve. Was it always just heads? Or did they have, because I can remember vaguely somewhere seeing something where, like, the Maui on Rapa Nui were actually, some of them did have a little body or some kind of thing, but are these ones indeed just heads.
00:29:02
Speaker
The big boys are just heads. Just heads. Just heads. So they did other carvings. They had, you know, the big stone altars, the big stone thrums, there's votive axes, which are those werejig wars, grains, greenstone carvings, giant mosaic pavements. But like the heads themselves were just heads, just floating heads. Yeah. I mean, it's a choice. It's a it's a decision. to to decide We're gonna just focus on the heads, guys. All we can do, which I suppose I mean, if you're gonna, if you say that they're really identifiable, like they're so specific, each, each particular head, I guess the face is the most identifiable aspect of someone. So
00:29:41
Speaker
Well, that's it. And we can see that throughout so many cultures around the world and throughout the giant space span of history, right? It's that' the importance of the head, the seat of power and mortality and vanity and presence and all of these things that you can just so much more, like you can convey so much more within like a head and a face than you can any other part of the body.
00:30:04
Speaker
True. Very true. Very true. Well, ponder on that, everyone. We're going to have another quick break now so that everyone has an opportunity to top up their tea, but we will be back very soon. Welcome back, everyone. Hope the teacups are now fuller and the biscuit jar is emptier. So after introducing us so beautifully to the Olmec colossal heads,
00:30:25
Speaker
Let's go a little bit back to to you and your sort of experience in archaeology, Raven, because we did all already introduce you a little bit in the first section, but maybe we could go into a bit more detail now. So a lot of people listening, if they recognize your name, may recognize it because of the very successful digital platform that you have sort of created for education of of archaeology, called Dig it with Ravens. So I'm very curious, at what point in this path from ancient Egyptologists to conservator to to plastered skulls to everything else? When did that develop? And how does the kind of I guess the management of that compare to like your day job or your job as an archaeologist?
00:31:05
Speaker
Wow, so I'm aging myself here now. I just realized how long it's been since since I started
Raven's Educational Initiatives
00:31:11
Speaker
this thing. and It was eight years ago, August of 2016, that I first got the idea I had just moved to Germany to Hamburg to start my internship for stone conservation.
00:31:26
Speaker
And I had no friends, I couldn't speak the language and I had zero, like zero dollars. It was really scary. It was a very scary year of just like extreme budgeting and like doing weird jobs just to make, you know, just to buy groceries. But my cousin Andrew actually was like, you know what you should do? so Nothing else to do. Pretty much. He was like, you know what? You like archaeology. You're good at talking about it. He's also a big nerd. So I owe this all to him. really i was like you should start YouTube channel and I was like I don't know and I was always I was that kid at school that oh if there was a possibility or an option to make a video you you know incorporate into a school project I was that person right I would I would edit with my VCR on a VHS
00:32:18
Speaker
old school times, again, aging myself here. But I loved it and I had so much fun. So I thought, you know what, this actually sounds like a fun idea. I could try it. So I filmed the first video, like a what is archaeology, like an archaeology 101 video in the Airbnb that I had like booked for like that first little month or so just to until I was able to get into my student housing. And I did not upload it for a whole year i just sat on it but this line that's That's the ultimate sleeping on it. Yeah, it was it was ah it was a very long drawn out process. It's overwhelming learning German and doing internships in German and you're just looking at them like, I don't know what's going on. you Yeah, I guess you your moment you get it you get it. Sometimes you're like, wait, and then you guess everyone else starts to do the stuff and you just, you nodded and you're like, oh crap, I should have asked a question, but I didn't want to look stupid. So.
00:33:14
Speaker
It just became a big thing like that. And then I think like the next spring, I was like, you know what, I really want to get into it and do it. And it's now, you know, become this big thing. And I feel bad because I haven't been giving it as much attention as it deserves throughout the years. I feel like it could be so much more, you know, just bigger and better for the viewers if I had given it more attention. But I'm very glad and very you know grateful for everyone who's kind of been on this journey for the last you know eight years or so. But it's yeah, it's just been this really fun thing. It sort of morphed into, it started off as me wanting to make all of the videos that I wanted when I was an archaeology undergraduate studying for midterms. I wanted someone to explain to me what like how to calculate radiocarbon dating.
00:34:11
Speaker
Yeah, we all we' need that. Right? I was like, what's what do you mean? So I wanted those things. I'm like, little quick videos of like, what is dendrochronology? What is, you know, luminescence dating, all that stuff. and So I started off with that. And then it sort of weirdly morphed into like me and my friend Jude, watching Indiana Jones and yelling at it. One of the best videos of all time must say.
00:34:36
Speaker
It was so fun to film. And then we, you know, we've kind of done a whole bunch more. Nina Jones four and five are also coming. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Flew to Hong Kong to do that. It was a dude. Cause I felt like we had to dedicate him to the car business expense. Good to go to Hong Kong.
00:34:54
Speaker
Oh goodness. But yeah, it's kind of just become this, this amazing community. Like I've met so many people like yourself and just. Oh, no, it's it's been so fun that way. Like, I just i never in and a million years thought that we could just sort of make archaeology what we want it to be rather than what some old white man in a blazer at the top of academia says it is. Yeah. So that's been really cool. And, you know, bringing that
00:35:27
Speaker
information to the public and learning along the way of like how best to tell a story and how to disseminate this information properly and to just like just connect with people and get them excited about the ancient world and not just you know the conspiracy theories or the big gold things but like the actual history and people living their normal everyday lives like us and realizing like, you know, we're not that different from people in the past. And yeah here's this cool thing that we can do. So yeah, but you know, having that this channel up next to a full time job has been
00:36:01
Speaker
very stressful, then hopefully we'll find the right balance at times. I have not posted in a year, I apologise, but the videos are starting next week, so... Well, the reason you haven't been posting for a year, glad you mentioned it, because I was going to mention, you have a book coming out. One of the chapters I've already mentioned is called the Olbeck Land of Rubber and Colossal Stone Heads, which now those listening in will know what we mean by that. They'll know a little bit about the the Colossal Stone Heads, but Yeah, a book about the kind of the the lost ancient the the forgotten ancient cultures, shall we say? Where did the inspiration for that come from? Why did you decide to write a book?
Raven's Upcoming Book on Ancient Cultures
00:36:42
Speaker
Weirdly enough, i did not really it wasn't my like thing where I woke up and I was like, I'm going to write a book. I very fortunately had a publisher reach out to me, which is you know very rare. Very cool, yeah. Yeah, just to be like, hey,
00:36:56
Speaker
you want to write a book? And I was like, I don't know. to I was like, maybe. And then I like I sat down and I was like, okay, like, if I'm gonna write a book, and obviously, like, they, they reached out, because they found my YouTube channel. So it's like, it's obviously going to be a book for the community, not just for myself. And I was like, what would I want? You know, people who happen upon my videos or interested in things that I talk about, or like, you know, a lot of other archaeologists online talk about, like, what is a really good one that's different, that's not overdone, and sort of highlights yeah the archaeological bits of it, not the fantastical historical stuff, as sometimes, you know, that we can kind of get wrapped up in in these stories. And I just went, okay, well, what about like a collection of
00:37:50
Speaker
lesser known and like under celebrated ancient civilizations and cultures from all around the world. And you know, everything is very much you know, when you're when I was growing up, especially when you're taking books out about ancient history and stuff, very Eurocentric, it's very Mediterranean centric as well. Or, you know, you get a little bit of the Middle East sometimes, and you get Egypt, but you don't get anything south of Egypt. Right. So I thought, well, let's be ambitious, which came to bite me. But I'm proud of how it ended up. But gosh, it was such a feat. But there's a lot in here. I'm just having a little look through the contents that you sent me again. And I mean, you've got the Acadians, you've got the Hittites, but you've also got the Jomon, the Minoans, Mississippians, the Nok. No idea what that is. Very curious. The Nok, the Nok are cool. The Nok of Nigeria. It's like, you know,
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, different idea. We got great Zimbabwe in there. We have the Lapita of Oceania. We've got the Moche. So it was like me just kind of going, let's try and make it all around the world. I was literally going crazy in front of a map. I had like a list of 50.
00:39:00
Speaker
I wanted to write about I looked at a map and I started pinning them to make sure I could get as many regions as possible and that it was it's not evenly distributed I will say I tried my best but you know we did what we could with what we had and it will hopefully be a really nice representation of cultures from all around the world that are from varying points we have the Neolithic all the way up to you know the the early Inuit, the Tule, which go down, you know, to pretty much, and you know, very, a couple hundred years ago, right? yeah So I'm trying to, yeah. so like bad that one
00:39:42
Speaker
but i know yeah I was like, that date is failing me. but like you know So we have us you know and we have people, ones that come into contact with European colonizers yeah stuff in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s. So it is it it covers around, I think it had the math, it was 15,000 years of history, which is crazy. And it took me a year to write within while doing a full-time job. And that's why I haven't been posting, but it's,
00:40:13
Speaker
I think I think it turned out okay. Like I thought if I'm gonna write a book, like I'm gonna write a book. And so it ended up being a lot bigger. I took on 20. I don't know if 20 was a smart idea for someone who's writing a book for the first time. ah And I really hope I did them justice because I was definitely out of my comfort zone for a lot of them. But I really I really tried and so I hope that it comes across that way and that I really wanted to just get that story out there for them and to like kind of just go this is a really good
00:40:45
Speaker
jumping off point if you want to look further yeah go into the bibliography because it's huge and find enough sources. And I like, I mean, even in the introduction, you already, you know, specify that and say that, like, this is just supposed to be almost like an yeah an introduction to these cultures. And I love indeed the full name, which is let be you father the other ancient civilizations decoding archaeology is less celebrated cultures. And I, yeah, I think that that's ah really nice way of putting it the kind of and as we're talking about with the Olmec, I mean, they're just not really as well known as other kind of meamericanic Mesoamerican cultures, even though they have all these amazing things on their CV. and Yeah, it's kind of something that yeah should be celebrated indeed, and they they shouldn't be forgotten. So I think that yeah, it's a really nice
00:41:34
Speaker
way of celebrating them, the way of of remembering them, I guess, in a lot of times. Do you have a favorite chapter that you had to reset? Oh, making me pick one of my favorite babies. say You know, like, I love them all the same. no I think some of them, you know, were Obviously, you know, as with all books, some are a lot easier to write than others, some just kind of come off the page, because you just know exactly how you're going to write about them. And I think for me, one of my favorite ones was, I'm going to make sure I pronounce this right, because I never do, I believe it's the unit teacher unit, the unit is, I can never say it correctly i feel really bad every time i say it's a check word
00:42:27
Speaker
that's the that's what i can't pronounce very well but like un know teacher i think is the the closest I'll get, but eight they are from sort of like that middle Europe, so Germany, Czech Republic, Poland type area. Do you know the Nebra Sky disk? I do know the Nebra Sky disk, yes. They made the Nebra Sky disk.
00:42:49
Speaker
ah ah see yeah and And they are just so cool. I love it. They have like these beautiful, amazing like burials. They have these amazing like settlements and they have, I want to call it like the German Stonehenge essentially. It's called the miltte.
00:43:11
Speaker
okay um it's in social germany so it's not far from you maybe i have to say i should i should know about this yeah up but it's really it's a really cool they were like the bronze masters of you know that time period and they were dealing in amber beads and they had like the mines and so they became like like really like really powerful during that time in Europe for like for them which was you know like around 2300 BC like Bronze Age you know early Bronze Age 1600 2300 to 1600 and they were just really fun and I loved writing about them because like I knew about the never sky disk and I was so excited to learn more about it and then just
00:43:53
Speaker
For me, it was, you know, knowing that, but then learning more about like, you know, the burials and the bronze and the trade. And I'm like, Oh, that's actually like, really, they're much more interesting than I thought they were going to be. that yeah Yeah. And another favorite, I think is the, the knock from Nigeria, their pottery. So nice. So cool. So well done. We barely know much about them, but like, we found them, the first heads were found in like a tin mine. And everyone was like, what? and then we don't know what they were used for
00:44:26
Speaker
like there's some fears i'm not going to spoil the whole book but sp Really cool. Small heads, small fats in it. These ones have bodies this time. Oh, okay. okay yeah okay go Yeah. And then you know what, the Lapita, I need to just give a little shout out to the Lapita and Noshiana. We're thinking like people didn't cross big bodies of water for you know until recently and they were going out on these like tiny canoes.
00:44:51
Speaker
to know to, you know, to the Solomon Islands, right? yeah And you're like, what Okay, go. Yeah, you do you babe. But like I wouldn't be the volunteer to go like, yeah, we're just gonna go on a canoe and see how far we get until we find land. let's see What's the worst that could happen? very paper And it's just Yeah, that human spirit of like, what's out there? And I'm just gonna get on my tiny boat and see what see what we can find. It's just amazing.
00:45:18
Speaker
I mean, I mean, yeah, I can't wait to read up about all of these cultures in it, which, if other people listening in also want to read it, when will it be released? Where can people get hold of it? You can pre-order it on all of the Amazons, ah from what I've seen. So any country you're in, go on Amazon. It comes out pretty much everywhere, October 29th. So just, I guess, pre-Halloween reading? Oh, yeah, why not? There's nothing spooky, but you know.
00:45:49
Speaker
Hi. Wanna learn about those heads? Exactly. We love some good heads. Nice. And where? Where can people buy it? Amazon. You can get it at Waterstones. Where else have I seen it? I think it's on Indigo, if you're a Canadian, Woodwood. And Barnes and Noble, of course. But yeah, just, I would say like, you know, when in doubt, even though we don't really all, we don't really all want to support Amazon, but when in doubt, Amazon's got it.
00:46:12
Speaker
yeah Fair enough. Great. Well, I look forward to reading it. Look forward to others telling me about their exciting journey. That marks the end of our tea break today. Probably time to get back to work. It sounds like if you've been working on this for a year, you probably have a lot of other stuff to catch up on. But thank you so, so much for joining me today, Raven. I really enjoyed it. I chatted.
00:46:34
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun to just, yeah, just stories fun to chat with you. So. check And yeah, I'm definitely going to have you on again to chat about every single one of these cultures in the books. Watch out 20 new episodes coming your way. Sorted, content sorted. So if anyone wants to find out more about Raven's work or her platform as well, or indeed the Olmec Colossal Heads, do check the show notes on the podcast homepage.
00:47:02
Speaker
and make sure to check on, I guess, Raven's social media um and all kinds of other places. Keep an eye on Amazon and other places you get books to pre-order. the other ancient civilizations. Hope that you all enjoyed our journey today. If you want to help support this show and of course all of the other amazing series that form the Archaeology Podcast Network, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, etc. wherever you get your podcasts, follow us on social media to get updates on new episodes and upcoming events. And if you want to be extra, extra nice and support us even further, you can always become an APN member. You'll be helping us to create even more amazing, free, fun content
00:47:43
Speaker
and you will also have exclusive access to ad-free episodes and bonus content like our online seminars and live read-along events. For more information, check out the homepage at archaeologypodcastnetwork dot.com. I hope that you enjoyed our journey today. If you did, make sure to like, follow, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you next month for another episode of Tea Break Time Travel.
00:48:07
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at w www.com. Contact us at chrisatarchaeologypodcastnetwork.com.