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Episode 62: Eli Erlandson
71 Plays1 year ago
This week we sit down with Principal Concept Architect and former Disney Imagineer Eli Erlandson. Eli shares many stories from her time at Imagineering, working on Disney parks around the world!
Be sure to check out more of her and many other female Imagineers in the book "Women of Walt Disney Imagineering" you can purchase it HERE
DISCLAIMER: We are not an affiliate of the Walt Disney Company nor do we speak for the brand or the company. Any and all Disney-owned audio, characters, and likenesses are their property and theirs alone.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to Sharing the Magic, the podcast that takes you on a journey through the enchanting worlds of Disney.
Special Guests and Podcast Goals
00:00:10
Speaker
Each week, we're joined by a special guest, whether they're a magician creating moments of astonishment or a Disney expert sharing the secrets behind the magic of the happiest place on Earth. Together we'll uncover the stories, inspirations, and behind the scenes tales that bring these worlds to life. So, get ready to be spellbound and transported to a place where dreams come true.
Co-host and Guest Introductions
00:00:55
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the latest episode of sharing the magic. I'm your host Barry and tonight we have a great guest joining us. She is actually a former engineer and we'll learn more about her in a minute. But first let's say hello to our co-host tonight. First we want to say hello to Dawn. Dawn, how are you doing? Hi from Houston, Texas. Nice to meet you. And I just have to say girl power on the women engineering.
00:01:21
Speaker
them and and That's great. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. All right. Next up, we have Matthew. Matthew, how are you doing tonight? I'm doing great, Barry. I'm really glad to be here. It's my first time with y'all and I've been looking forward to this all week, so let's have some fun. All right. Next up, we have another newbie. Brian, Brian, how are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you for having me here. And Elodie, I'm really, really excited to talk with you.
00:01:51
Speaker
Thank you. And then we have reach though Rachel. Rachel, how are you doing tonight? I'm doing good. Just skipped back in town to Florida from the California D23 engine and all my kids start school tomorrow. So great day tomorrow afternoon. They're all on just for a little bit, but looking forward to the interview today. Thank you.
00:02:18
Speaker
Great. All right. And last but not least, we have the main man on campus. Jeff, Jeff, how are you doing tonight? Main man. I'm on campus. Okay. Main man on campus. Man. Okay. I'm doing, I'm doing well and and happy to have our guests and uh, I'm excited. So let's go.
00:02:38
Speaker
All right.
Ellie Urbleton's Disney Journey Begins
00:02:39
Speaker
As I mentioned before, our guest tonight is a former Imagineer and I cannot wait to hear her story. So without further ado, we welcome Ellie Urbleton. How are you doing tonight? I'm doing well. Thank you very much for having me and it's nice meeting all of you. I'm looking forward to having a good conversation and have some fun as Matthew said.
00:03:05
Speaker
So um I assume you're, you're, um, interested to know how do I even became an image imagineer? but What was the path after that? Oh yeah, definitely.
00:03:16
Speaker
yeah And I was not born and and raised in a America. I was born and raised in Brazil. And I received a small Minnie Mouse doll from a neighbor who was a Chinese Russian from Chennai. And she made this doll for me, which I thought was pretty cute. and I was very, very young.
00:03:38
Speaker
had no idea who Minnie Mouse was. They explained to me who Minnie Mouse was. and Then after um Disneyland opened, one of our other neighbors and he was an architect and his family went to Disneyland and they took slides of Disneyland. and I loved what I saw. and ah and was It was in the late 50s, I think, that he came here. I'm in California.
00:04:06
Speaker
and to to bring his family to the park. And he actually took color slides, which was like, whoa, back then. So seeing it in color and seeing the park and seeing, I was very excited about it. And even back then that put a little seed in my brain that, oh, I would like to work for a company that does this. And da as though I was growing up, I understood my interests were always in art.
00:04:35
Speaker
model making, drawings. I even did some writing. Everything that had to do with art is whatever that I was interested in. And then I found out from my parents, they wouldn't let me study art. It was not allowed in the family. And that had to do with their own upbringing as Europeans, that art professions for women can be a very difficult one. And they didn't want me to suffer, basically.
00:05:03
Speaker
So the solution was, for me, study architecture, which is a combination of of science and art. And and I never regretted that. I went to study architecture. I studied at USC. School of Architecture got my degree. And on the day of my graduation,
00:05:23
Speaker
My father handed me an envelope and I thought, you know, I won't need a present, dad. and You know, I'm here because you got me through this. And he goes, no, no, you have to have this stone envelope. And what what was, why the envelope was an application to WED.
00:05:41
Speaker
And I went, what's WED? Well, that's WED. Nobody knew WED back then. And this is 1975. WED was a secret company still, Walt Disney Enterprises. And ah my dad said it took him well over a year to discover about the company and then what they do do and get me this application. So go I thought, wow, dad, thanks, but you never let me study yeah art.
00:06:09
Speaker
ah stop So he said, well, who do you think designed and built Disneyland? Not only artists. I mean, they need the engineers, the architects, they need a lot of different professions to do that. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is great. So I i did fill out the application practically and immediately. I think it was the next day after my graduation. Sent it in. Did not hear from them.
00:06:34
Speaker
and went to work at a construction company. ah Luckily, I told the construction company that if I heard from WED, I was not going to stay with
Challenges and Transfers in Imagineering
00:06:45
Speaker
them. I was going to go to WED. I did get a call, went for my interview where with Martin,
00:06:55
Speaker
it was a wonderful man. hand I still don remember exactly how he looked that day. And his eyes had been blue eyes, thick spectacles, that and very very friendly man. He invited ah other participants to this interview.
00:07:11
Speaker
people i I, of course, didn't know. ah Later I got to know them. But his his office, which was in the Gold Coast Wed, got filled with ah these men all looking at my materials that I had to show my portfolio and asking me gazillion questions. And I thought it went really well. and And then I was told, you know, at the end of the interview, it's nice meeting you and and we'll call you. Well,
00:07:39
Speaker
I waited one month. I waited two months. I waited three months. No call. And then one day, Nicole came in and I was able to tell the construction company, I had warned you that if this happens, I'm going to go work at WED. So I went to work at WED. This was 1976 by the time I got there. And I was split into the architectural drafting room, which was the sea of drafting tables. Everybody was mad, everybody.
00:08:14
Speaker
And here I'm a very young graduate, young lady, and and I know there's one woman in it. And I thought, oh, good. And we we did become dear friends, but she had been transferred from Disneyland um offices to wed. She was a gas woman, and her profession was engineering. It was not architecture. Very nights later, your name was Sarah Tobian. So we worked closely together, and I got to know a lot of people in that period of time.
00:08:47
Speaker
in the world of architecture for WED, but also in the world of architecture because architects work with art directors, you get to know the art directors, you get to know the other professionals who are working towards the same goal within a project. And I was um doing really well, I would say, um had one very unpleasant person in the architectural department who was way a senior to me, who who who would do things that were not acceptable, wouldn't be today either. ah He would come behind me and he would come real close and breathe into my ear and say things that are like, get away. And I thought, what am I going to do here?
00:09:35
Speaker
I can't leave the company. i'm I'm in the middle of this renaissance happening here with the plans for Tokyo Disneyland and Epcot and everything that's happening. There's no way I can leave because of this idiot. And ah so i I requested for a transfer to the show ah show a design department. At that time it was show design. Today would have been all show set design.
00:09:59
Speaker
and worked under the leadership of George Wendell, a wonderful man. And it was a tiny department. And we were very few of us. I was, again, the other woman, but we became such good friends, all of us. And as I was assigned at that time to work with Harper Gosh.
00:10:16
Speaker
on Epcot, the World Showcase, and and also to check back Martin Smith, who was doing the Energy Pavilion for Epcot. So two very different assignments, and two very different men, and two amazingly talented men, and very nice people.
00:10:33
Speaker
um With Harper Goff, I ah was able to, I learned in the such a fast way because he's so, it was such an intense learning curve for me. I learned what it means to do design for the entertainment business. And to I learned about false perspective. I learned about expectations, about about the witty, all the things that you learn once you work at the exchange company.
00:11:03
Speaker
And Harper assigned to me, the first thing he assigned to me was design the Israel Pavilion. It had never been done before. And so I had to do a lot of research, did a lot of research. And then I started designing. He gave me this plot of land and that was imaginary at that time and told me to design this pavilion. And so I did.
00:11:27
Speaker
And in the process of designing it, he also have taught me how to draw it from a bird's eye view, which he loved doing me all the time. and And he did it in such an archaic and easy method. that It was like, wow, I'm loving this. I'm learning something so important from this man who draws like nobody I had known before and ah and plus he's teaching me how to ah how to design thematic architecture and environment and so um
00:12:05
Speaker
I did that and he he asked me to do other pavilions. He said, I'm going to build a ah ah big model of of um the world showcase. And I want to have the many pavilions around this big lagoon. He explained his his his thinking process of what he was thinking this would be. And I don't remember exactly how many pavilions I designed, but I designed a lot of them. And there there were a few other people from the architectural of two were also designing for him. ah so And we worked very closely with the um model builders, which now are called three-dimensional designers, and gave them the information of what they're building for each pavilion. And then there were the people who did the colors, the people who did the the landscape for the model. And it was just an immense effort by a very small group of people
00:13:03
Speaker
and everybody very talented. So we we completed the small hole for Harper and felt very good. the The whole team felt really good about it. And it was the day for, um at that time it wasn't a video, it was really a photo shoot.
00:13:24
Speaker
that, uh, no digital stuff back then, um, that he invited the team to come and and be around this huge table, the model. And then he asked me to go stand next to him and I thought, wow, okay. And, uh, as I I'm standing there, the photo shoot started at the model and he quietly leaned over to me. He goes, Ellie, does this look Oh, right to you. And I said, Harper, this is gorgeous. Such a fabulous team effort. You got anybody to do. And I think you've got the results you want it. And after I said that, he said, stop, stop.
00:14:10
Speaker
and And I thought, uh-oh, what did I do here? What he meant to stop the shooting, you know? And and ah and then he said, bring a salt shaker. And I thought, oh no, what am I going to experience here? Is he, you know, does he He's going to take this out, salt shaker, I don't know, behind his, you know, right shoulder or maybe in the left shoulder and now we can shoot or what are we going to do?
00:14:38
Speaker
He took me the salt shaker and he climbed over this table, the model, very gingerly. He was not a big man, so of he was not gonna destroy anything. And he he leaned over as far as he could to get to the boats, and he he gently sprinkled salt behind them. And then he, with his fingers, created little wakes with the salt.
00:15:06
Speaker
and he And then he backed off. Now we can continue with the photo shoot. Talk about learning a big lesson here. It was a huge lesson because it was, no matter how small a detail it is, it does make a difference. It does make a difference. Don't skip it because it's too little. Just do it. you know and And it was a huge know lesson that I used for the rest of my career, really.
Mentorship and Co-authoring 'Women of Walt Disney Imagineering'
00:15:33
Speaker
So with Jack Martin Smith, I had just for one of them, I'm doing a historic research of all these countries, right? A lot of research and a lot of storyboards, a lot of stuff that went into ah each pavilion's design. And then for Jack Martin Smith, the research was on the opposite end in that it was the energy pavilion And it had to do with what what is most recent in science and where is science going with the world of energy. So I did a lot of scientific research and and ah zeroed in on on on the solar.
00:16:13
Speaker
you know, and the powers of solar energy, but at that time it was not being really used yet, but the studies were there. And ah I designed for the pavilion this huge parabolic dish, huge, that that was on a rail, a horizontal rail,
00:16:34
Speaker
ah where the parabolic dish that would stand on end could who follow a rail to follow the sun rays and that that those would be collected into the energy that could run part of the show, part of the pavilion. And it was really an amazingly ah huge statement for the front of the pavilion because it was very sculptural too and another lesson I learned.
00:17:01
Speaker
you can think you're doing something futuristic. But I hear from when you did it and by the time they built it, it's not futuristic. So that idea didn't fly. And no, it's dead in the water. But boy did I learn a lot about energy.
00:17:18
Speaker
And the nice thing about working there was that you're always learning. It's non-stop learning. And I love that. I love that. You never you never are in Steinman waters. Every project that you work on, your you're you're researching, you're finding out things about what the project is and And andda the main thing is, what is the story? you know That's what we all start with. What is the story? And and nobody does anything without the story. and And it's fun to, while you're still trying to figure out what the story is,
00:17:59
Speaker
have the what we call the blue sky sessions, where everybody can throw ideas. And there's no such thing as a bad idea. Everything is taken in, everything. And the group studies each idea. And eventually, it really is like going to receive. The best story comes out at the end. And and it's it's it's it might be one person who had that idea to begin with.
00:18:26
Speaker
But um if it's of even in the blue sky process, it becomes already a group thing because it the team is the one who perceived all these ideas and and and brought them to eventual reality. So in the process of working there, as I attain a more and more ah um experience,
00:18:51
Speaker
oh, there's so much to tell. My husband was also pulled into the company early on in 1987, eighty six 1986. And I had told him, don't even try, because he has his own architectural firm. He said, say no. And and he did. He kept on saying, no, no. And it it was always a dinner invitation. I said, and?
00:19:17
Speaker
accept this invitation. It's only a dinner. And these are really nice people that are fun to know. And I'll be working with them for hopefully a long time. So he did.
00:19:28
Speaker
At the end of dinner, he accepted me going to WDI, which it was right at the transition times when WID was becoming WDI.
Euro Disneyland Experiences
00:19:39
Speaker
And we were sent to France for what was called Euro Disneyland back then and became Disneyland heroes.
00:19:49
Speaker
We were the first couple sent to France probably and a little more than a year ahead of the rest of the group that was sent but with the drawings and everything. And we were the liaison between the French ah engineers that have been that have this ah had been hired by a ah by the company and architects and interior designers, interior architects, landscape architects. and Most of them were in Paris, some of them were in England.
00:20:22
Speaker
and um Ed and I went and we we had this humongous job of keeping the whole crew here and in the Landale, in tune with what they were doing in France and vice versa. And it was a humongous job. And um the other couple that went was, ah she, ah Carolyn was on name was her name. she she ah she was a She came with her husband and her their daughter. She was an engineer. And so she also helped in the process.
00:21:02
Speaker
So it was really the three of us with her mainly looking at the other round utility stuff and Ed and I looking at the whole park. And we literally took the park and, you know, put the side plan on the wall and we split it. You take care of these guys and we'll I'll take care of these guys. And that's all we did it for a whole year. So it was difficult. The company was going through difficult transitions too.
00:21:30
Speaker
I don't want to get into the politics of the company because that's not where I'm at at all. But it was really difficult transitions and some of the positions that people held were being questioned and people were on edge and it was not a pleasant time at all. And Marty Sklar,
00:21:48
Speaker
who was already the president at WDI back then too. I think he was so you knows all the leaders of the company since Walt Disney. Marty Scolaro worked with every single one of them. she ah He was wonderful in that he was easy to reach. she I would call him and i I would tell him certain things and he would advise and it it was really a life saver for me to have that line back to the whole office. And at that time also was when Mickey Steinberg came in. I don't know if you guys heard of Mickey Steinberg, but he ah he was pulled in.
00:22:29
Speaker
um by the company to work specifically looking at Euro Disneyland and its structure and what we're doing and the money we're spending and you know everything. So between Marty and Mickey, they were such a good combination. The project became feasible, really. It was' it became then more of a pleasure to work in because people are not being asked to do the things that they shouldn't be asked to do.
00:22:56
Speaker
So that was, that was ah I could go on and on and yell, but ah I worked with, ah I will go on, I worked with Bill Evans a lot at that time. And Bill Evans, here's a little story that I think,
00:23:13
Speaker
there youll appreciate he i wish He's the one who worked with Disney on and on Disneyland, and he was a landscape guy who who who did like the general clothes, the original stuff for Disney. And um so he was assigned to be overseas with us. And and I became assigned to overlook the the area of development and landscape for the whole park.
00:23:37
Speaker
also, and which was like a little too much. Terry Palmer was a person assigned in Landale overlooking everything with Jim Cash and being a ah he was a civil engineer on it.
00:23:50
Speaker
So I had the pleasure of walking the site of what became Disneyland Paris with Bill Evans when it was wheat fields. It was nothing but that. And a and he he told me, ah I'm going to teach you. He was a big man, big, tall, strong man. Well, I'm going to teach you what it takes to take soil samples.
00:24:12
Speaker
Okay, so let's go. So there were three of us, Bill Evans, two consultant guys from England who were working on the landscape, and myself, and a big pipe, big fat pipe that they brought along, and a big hammer. And I thought, soil samples, literally, they would, we would, and I say we, because I had to do it too, because we took turns because it was difficult.
Return to Disney and Thematic Projects
00:24:40
Speaker
took turns of hammering that pipe into the soil and pulling it out when it had soil in it, putting that soil into plastic baggies, tagging each baggie to a number that then we would put on the site lens to know exactly where that came from. And we did that for the whole site. Was I sore the next day?
00:25:01
Speaker
That's how I was so sore. And I think they, they like that, that I was so sorry, but that's okay. Um, so that's my little snippet there for my career at Disney was, um, as an architect, I had a 40, 40 plus year career and at Disney, uh, uh, WDI 30 years. So my first years at wed were interrupted by,
00:25:28
Speaker
not being able to get my architectural license from the state of California because WED was not owned by an architect. And so they wouldn't allow me to take the architectural exams. I had to go work in another company for two to three years, I think it was, and then WED would be, ah and it had to be owned by an architect company.
00:25:51
Speaker
and then I would be able to apply for the licensing exams. So it was a very hard decision to to leave the web. I loved so much working you know with Harper and and Jack Martin Smith and so Martin and Herb Breiman and but all these wonderful people um that I learned so much from to decide am I going to go get my license or just going to continue a career at Disney?
00:26:21
Speaker
Well, I decided to go get my license since that's what I had studied and I like to finish what I start. I don't like to leave things hanging. I really like to finish what I start. And, um, I have all of these wonderful notes I kept from back, none from everybody telling me you're coming back. And I thought, yeah, after getting my license, just three years, give me three years, I'll be back. Well, it didn't happen that way. I, I, uh,
00:26:49
Speaker
I went to work with a ah man from Texas, Gene Miles, who had his own architectural firm and was licensed so I could work with him, get my credits to take my licensing exams. But even then, to get my job with him was interesting because I showed him my portfolio, I showed him what I can do, we'll i talk to them. And he said, this is perfect, perfect. I thought, oh, good, I'm getting this job. And then he looked at me.
00:27:15
Speaker
so well, across his desk going, but I don't hire any women. And I mean, really, he came forward with his faith to line it and set it back. And I did exactly the same thing. I leaned forward to his face and I said, I am not any woman. And he said, you're hired. You're hired. So With him, but the thing we did is that, and why I stayed with him longer than I expected, is that he was designing
00:27:52
Speaker
and building thematic restaurants around the country, which nobody else was doing. And it was so related to what I was doing at WDI that it it was like, wow, I'm doing thematic design in an exterior firm. And ah we were we were he wanted me to become his partner in the company. And i I refused it because my husband had his own company. And I told him, if I become a partner with any architect, it's going to be my husband, not another architect.
00:28:20
Speaker
But he goes, well, why don't you do that? And I said, well, because we have to have two paychecks. Because usually, when you own a company, and I said, I'm glad you have this. You don't always bring mobile chat. He goes, yeah, I know that problem. I said, so no, I don't want to be your partner because I do need to bring on my check. So we worked for eight years around the country and built many, many thematic
Balancing Career and Family Life
00:28:47
Speaker
restaurants. And then one day,
00:28:49
Speaker
When they were planning the Euro Disneyland, oh I got the call saying, hey, time to come back. We need you. We need you. Come back, ladies. And and one thing led to another and i I went back. So.
00:29:04
Speaker
um not sorry about leaving Disney, not sorry about working outside of Disney and very happy to have worked at WDI and worked overseas. Probably more than half of my career was overseas, either relocated or on business trips. And our son grew up with two crazy parents who who were all over the place all the time and we took him everywhere. So um um when we lived in France, which we did twice,
00:29:34
Speaker
because we work both on the first and second part, the um studios. He came along and he he learned French. I put him in a French school, and which was unheard of. um But i I speak French, so I said I can help him. He learned French so fast and it was disgusting. It really was. He spoke with an accent. he ah she um They thought he was a little French kid after a year. and that It's like, no, no he's a little American kid.
00:30:09
Speaker
and And but he spent so much time in France with us that when we came back i at the airport, there we were going through customs and we had to take out some of our things on the van that goes by. and He was standing next to me, he looked up, he goes, Momma, how do you say this? Just like that, with the French accent, i just I looked at him, I looked at my husband, I said, what have I done? What have I done? This is my American child. This is my little American, what have I done?
00:30:49
Speaker
reverse reverse ah relocation is is sometimes as difficult as forward relocation to a new place, new country, new people, you come by and you have things to deal with, you wouldn't have had to deal with if you had just stayed. And our son was one of those things in batch. We had to put him in a French school here, and we did. And ah until high school, he he was in a French school,
00:31:19
Speaker
and then And then eventually he said, mom, andm I'm going to an American school now because I want to play basketball. And the French school was, I have basketball and I am an American and you're going to let me go to home. Yes, please. So he did go to an American school. So is there anything anybody wants to ask? Because I i have such a very emotional life that having done so many different things,
00:31:44
Speaker
I would like to say real quick before a question, how fortunate it is that I believe that the universe has guided you in such a way. So your parents didn't let you major in art. It guided you to the direction that you did architecture. um Then you have the person at your career, your first career and in WED and WED, that was We won't say the the term, but we all know, um, not exactly treating you like they should. And so that pushed you to seek something else, but all along that's really guiding you into the exact path that you actually wanted. And it's just, it's amazing to me. I love hearing things like that because you're successful obviously, but look how negative things
00:32:34
Speaker
Really kind of it's an the analogy I like to use is when you're bowling and if you're really bad at bowling like me They put those things on the cutters that protect the ball from doing gutter balls Well, you had those protective things in your gutters and and didn't really realize it like many of us until later So that's awesome. I love that. Thank you Thank you, Dawn. And ah what you just mentioned is was why the book Women of Walt Disney engineering happened, because it was a period in my ah much later career before retirement where I was asked to mentor a group of young women.
00:33:14
Speaker
in the architecture department who who are who would benefit show from the mentoring. And I would get them to my house every so often. We would have either lunch or dinner together. And it was like a ah ah safe zone. We had an agreement. Anything that's sent here stays here. Anybody can say anything. So after months of this, they asked me to write a book.
00:33:41
Speaker
and And I thought, I said, okay, I could do that. And I thought, for them. I didn't think a buh for everybody, you know? And I thought, oh, if it's for them, it'll be good for my family, too. And yeah, okay, I'll do that.
00:33:55
Speaker
So
Traits for Success in Imagineering
00:33:56
Speaker
I started writing this book and then one day I just thought, I said, no, this is so wrong, absolutely so wrong because my whole life has been teamwork and this is not gonna be my book. So I invited all these other women who retired around the same time to write their own story within the book to encourage young people, not necessarily only women, and young people.
00:34:23
Speaker
um and but we we went through these areas in our professional careers that that were because we were women and so yes it would help girls girls I'm using the term but young women and in the professions who who were very demoralized in some ways thinking that they had at a heart. and And the idea is no nobody has it easy, nobody. but It's just easy is not the thing. And that's not what you should seek. And the thing to do is is recognize your hard moments can be switched to something positive. there Don't let them defeat you. Don't let those moments defeat you. So that's how this book came about.
00:35:12
Speaker
And I chose, you know, I had four criteria for choosing the women. They had to be retired from WDI, so they're not afraid to tell their stories. ah They had to be a team player and a team leader. um And they had to really want to encourage young women in whatever their dreams are. and And that included for us also young men. And um they could not be ah any longer a Disney employee, again, to be sincere in your writing. And and we came we came up, you know, we we couldn't understand why we were all white women. There was one day we were sitting here and living around, we went, look at us, we're all white women, what's what's this all about? then Then we realized, when we started 40, 50 plus years ago,
00:36:01
Speaker
That was the way it was. And it had nothing to do with our choice. Our choice was to go do what we want to do. And we never thought, to and it was interesting, too, that for the 12 of us who wrote, none of us, none of us thought of ourselves as um women, liberation women, and anything and like that. We were just women who wanted to do whatever work we chose and do it well and learn in the process. That was our common denominator. And it was naive of it, but it really worked for us. It really worked for us because we, I think, became appreciated by a lot of the
00:36:50
Speaker
meant that we worked with pretty quickly because we were like, no nonsense, he let me do the work, you know, what else needs to get done type of thing, rather than a little girl picking at me because I'm a woman. No, no, none of us did that. And um then we we also found out that we did brainstorm, that term again,
00:37:12
Speaker
who are ethnic women that we can invite to write with us. And every single woman we mentioned, um black women, ah American Indian women, Asian women, everybody, they were still in the workforce and they were in the middle of wonderful careers. So we all said, well, they have to write the next book. Whenever they retired, they actually need to write the next book. They really do because they have interesting stories to tell too.
00:37:42
Speaker
So um also within our story, again, Donna goes back to what you said. um To be an i mean and imagineer, what we had in common is ah we all we all strive for excellence. and know and Good enough is not good enough. it's just and We all strive for excellence. We're all very flexible, very resilient,
00:38:13
Speaker
We learned to have faith in the creative process and help it along. And, um, we also held ourselves accountable. We, it is accountability is huge. Just hold yourself accountable for what you're doing and, or, or what your team is doing or, you know, what you, what you're responsible for. So, um, we all have that in common. And I think those are imaginary traits.
00:38:39
Speaker
in common with other people within the company in other professions. I mean, there's like over 140 different professions, WDI, and ah those those those traits are are, I think, in every one of us. Accountability is huge.
00:38:59
Speaker
I think those traits would be great in every industry to have. And you can definitely tell um the foundation of Walt Disney with the Imagineering with those traits. It's carried through even still today. um It wouldn't be where it is right now if it didn't have people like you. Thank you. Yeah.
00:39:26
Speaker
So, and then, and being open to learning from those around you is so important too. I learned, like I learned from Harper Goff, such an immense thing, you know, thematic design, uh, which for him, it it was based on theater. I hadn't studied theater. Um, but some of the women, met by the way, in the book did, and Karen Connolly, pharma Dutch is one.
00:39:56
Speaker
and and do And the show lighting designers in the book, they also studied theater design, and they worked in theater for lighting and came to imagineering. But learning from each other, too, and listening to each other yeah is is important. well And it's not important to to feel like you're right. Therefore, listen to me. No, it's not important. It's like, let's listen to everybody.
00:40:27
Speaker
I had great fun with with the early Imagineers who had worked with Walt Disney, and I still think of them so often because i they were ah really humble. I mean, they were really, these men were humble. When you think of what they had already accomplished,
00:40:48
Speaker
They they were were humble guys and and they always had they they had, their offices were what's called the Gold Coast as if everybody had their own office there. And it was a very nice part of the building. um But their doors were always open, always open. And it was a nice time. and It was nice and that in that time period,
00:41:09
Speaker
we could go to somebody's office and just chat. And either you're solving a problem or you're trying to get a new idea. And it's so different than sending an email. As you get to know people better and you end up talking, you go on that rabbit trail that sometimes you don't want to go to, but
Shanghai Disneyland and Disney Park Details
00:41:27
Speaker
there it's important. Go on that trail rabbit trail. You find out more about the people you're working with and what they've done and what they can do. And it's, yeah.
00:41:37
Speaker
I missed that in the digital age. I did. I missed that. And I continued it in some ways with certain people to go to their offices. And and even in my team, I would go.
00:41:48
Speaker
every day to see what they're doing. you know They're working on this project with me. Let's see what you're doing. you know Let's make sure you're you understanding the story eight and what you're designing is is within the story and and that everybody connects in the story, which is harder to do with a digital age text messages.
00:42:11
Speaker
It's really hard to get the flavor of something from just reading a ah flat email. And it can be interpreted too many ways as well. So definitely agree with me. So does anybody have a question? or I have one real quick, if you don't mind. As an architect, what ah what are some of the new attractions that have impressed you? I know, that there's especially recently, there's a lot of let of new things. What are attractions really impressed you?
00:42:44
Speaker
I'm always impressed. I am. I just, it's the way I am. And, uh, and also knowing some of the things you have to go through to achieve where you're going, you know, what you're trying to achieve makes a difference too. So, um, the last project I worked on was Shanghai and, uh,
00:43:09
Speaker
It was and impressive to say the least, even during construction, the the size of it, the size of the team working there, uh, of the locals and, and, uh, American team and imagineers and everything that we were doing was impressive. And, um, you're asking specifically ride wise. Well, yeah, you know, anything anyone, no, no, it doesn't, it could be, it could be a structure to be building.
00:43:38
Speaker
yeah um and but the the sha i I haven't seen it yet finished because I had to leave that project because my mother was dying of cancer. One of the things I was working on was the castle.
00:43:52
Speaker
and um That castle, I'm going to go back there just because I want to see that castle now that it's finished. Yeah, I really want to see. And they don't there's other, I mean, there's other, I mean, there's the big pond that everybody was so excited about it, which is should be great to see and ah finished. And But there's a lot of also smaller things that only being there and being a designer, you know that they're there. And and there sometimes the small things that guests discover that you want them to discover. And those are always fun too to to look at.
00:44:33
Speaker
Like, um this is not too small, but I remember when when Tom Morris, who was the art director for Fantasyland and Eurodismland Disneyland Paris, he wanted that cave. Do you guys know the cave with the dragon? Yes. Yeah. He wanted that cave and that dragon in there.
00:44:54
Speaker
and And he did everything needed to get it. And it was not an easy process. He went through to the finance, the corporate, but everybody to get that dragon in there. And yet through all these years,
00:45:10
Speaker
but going to France. I know a lot of French people because I speak French. So ah one of the things they mentioned always, it's that dragon is amazing. And yet that dragon was one of those after thoughts that the creative lead said we must have, even though it didn't make financial sense for, for the whole, you know, picture of what you're doing there. um So there's always these, these things, sometimes that's a little like a dragon.
00:45:40
Speaker
um that are in all the parks and I love to go explore and see what are those the little surprises and and how was it? are they Are they as good as we thought they would be?
Ellie's Hobbies and Personal Interests
00:45:52
Speaker
Yeah. That's great. I have a burning question. Here it is. You ready? Oh, yeah. All right. Outside outside of of what you do and what you're known for doing, what other hobbies do you have? What other hobbies or interests are you are you passionate about?
00:46:10
Speaker
Oh, I and um i could live to a hundred and twenty easily and not get it all done. I love a lot of things. I love art, the painting, and I do that now a lot. And I go clean up painting with friends and with organizations and and have a lot of fun with that.
00:46:33
Speaker
like And, uh, my medium is oils and, uh, when I need quick and fast and and dirty, I do watercolors. I have a little sketchbook. I schedule to the watercolors Amy. Um, I love reading and I love writing, uh, through the years I've written a lot of poetry. So I i do have my own personal book of poetry. Um,
00:46:57
Speaker
I love skiing and I love to ski well into my very old age. yeah And but but but and um I love people in general too and and getting together with friends and and making sure that people are taken care of. and and reading yeah reading is a passion for me. I like movies too, but reading more so.
00:47:24
Speaker
What kind of ah books and movies are your favorite, genre-wise? Oh, very eclectic, by the way. It's good. Very eclectic. It would be unfair to say I have a genre that I follow. Nice. i yeah Usually with movies, when I hear somebody say, this is fabulous, you gotta to go see it. And and I trust that. with yeah that but I go see it. With books, I've actually now joined a book club and and there are about nine of us in it. And every ah month,
00:47:56
Speaker
one person chooses a book that we read and then we discuss it and and it's fun. well my My wife's a librarian so if she was here right now she would be she'd be up, her eyes would be as big as dinner plates but but no that's great I mean yeah I mean reading is I'm a voracious reader as well, i think it's and
Future Disney Park Locations and Epcot Evolution
00:48:21
Speaker
and I'm like you. I don't really have my own genre. I just i just love to read. and and um
00:48:27
Speaker
you know i think i don't know it just it makes me i Reading helps me keep mild my childlike sense of wonder going because there's always a book out there yeah and that i I gained either new insight from or I, oh, I would never thought of something that way or I never imagined that that was a beautiful way of saying it or something, you know, just something. That's a different way of seeing things. Yeah. Exactly. Just recently somebody said to me, all people are really children that lasted longer. yeah
00:49:02
Speaker
That's probably true. That is neat. That is neat. ah Yeah, I love you. I like that. I'm gonna that's a good that's that's good. So Ellie, let me let me ask you a question. Um, I Know you do you mentioned work, you know, you worked at Shanghai places like that, you know, just still in Paris So, you know, we just had d23 Finish up out of all the places in the world. I If you could pick, where would the next Disney park go? um but it not I think it could be very successful in Brazil. Access. Access. We don't have a theme park in Houston. Oh, yeah. I like Brazil. Brazil would be good.
00:50:00
Speaker
Yeah, one of the ah I heard this a lot because I did discuss this at one point a long time ago. um One of the hesitations by the company had been that a lot of those ah tourists that go to Florida are from Brazil. So that would kind of drain the Florida success from South America. Right. So, but I think there's enough people in South America that they can, they can have a part of their own and still not throwing Florida. Yeah. Do you, do you think, um, like, like Australia, I mean, it, it just seems like it just make, makes sense, but I don't think that the big enough for it. And then we're, I mean, it would take a long time for you to travel there.
00:50:53
Speaker
I mean, outside of people living in there, but I, it just seems like ah South America is the right answer. It's just like somewhere there just because of the flow. I mean, you're not going to put it in Canada because it's cold, you know, a half a half of the year, but yeah. Yeah.
00:51:15
Speaker
and And Europe already has its own two parks, and yeah, and many more. I mean, Europeans have a lot of parks that they build themselves. And um Africa, I mean, Africa, but going to on safari, it's as good as going so far. I mean, it's an amazing experience. If you guys have never gone on safari in Africa, it's just a really beautiful thing to do.
00:51:42
Speaker
But but going to go back to Australia, it's it's so big. I don't think we can imagine really how big it is. It's a whole continent and it's really sparsely populated and mostly around the seashore areas and and very far apart. So I think that would be problematic.
00:52:05
Speaker
And tourists who go to Australia, I don't think they would go for Disneyland. I mean, when you think of Asia, they have for Hong Kong, you know, Disneyland, and they have ah Tokyo Disneyland, Tokyo Disney Seas, and Shanghai Disneyland. So those those are the hubs for for where they're looking for parks to go, the Asians. They wouldn't go south to Australia to work, I don't think. I'm a big Epcot fan.
00:52:34
Speaker
and i I started my Disney addiction in that park and I'm just wondering what your opinion is of the evolution of Vepcot so far and where do you think it might go in the future.
00:52:52
Speaker
That's a huge question. Huge, huge. I don't ask little ones. It's so big. I mean, it's it's things that are being you know discussed in the company since Epcot started. it's like um it's It's the same, what I mentioned about you design for the future, but the future is here before we finish construction as is ah as a big problem.
00:53:16
Speaker
I love that got you, by the way. um And I like what they did with the space civilian. I like that. I worked on that job on that project before it was today's space civilian. And ah it was quite a difficult project to work on because when I was working on that, we were not supposed to undo the horizons building, we were supposed to fit.
00:53:44
Speaker
the space for building an idea and into the existing rise of building eventually back at, you know, up in the dirt, make out of the new building. My loved one worked on Epcot a lot and interventions and he he loved it working there are and um and and what they did. Test Track was an interesting project. I don't know if you guys ever went on it or not. or I've been on the first two ah versions of it. Yeah. I'm curious so what the third one's going to look like. Yeah.
00:54:17
Speaker
and I think that the question you asked, Matthew, is bigger than me. it's just like i yeah I can narrow it down for you a little bit. Can we do so with the imagination pavilion, please? okay i i remember like I remember the original and you know the original ride through with Dreamfinder and Figment. and I know we don't want to go backwards, but it just seems like there's something more that could be doing with that building as a whole. I miss pigment too. Yeah. the middle of the badgeation yeah that was Yeah. Okay. Not very anymore. Matthew, i mean you you have shorts there. You can sit there and watch shorts all day. You don't need to you don't need to do anything else. Well, if I need a good nap and air conditioning, yeah, sure. I've never been, I haven't been in there since they started the shorts.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah, they they're quick. I'm ready. I'm ready for my question. Go ahead. oh no This is an easy one. Do you have a favorite Disney character? And if it is goofy, you need to let Jeff know. But if not, who is your favorite Disney character? Oh, yeah, you think that's an easy question? Oh, I I think I love them all, but um I do. It's just insane. And um I really, I really like Winnie the Pooh and Tigger too, you know, and the fancy Tigger. I really like him. then da Oh, and goofy. I mean, my husband, I wish he was here talking to you guys. You would become right now. And he'd make a great impersonation of him. I studied. Oh, OK. Here we go. Oh, man. Cats out of the bag.
00:56:13
Speaker
i was just sleep i you know all right i i love i love goofy I would love to hear your husband's goofy. I bet he does a wonderful goofy voice. he does a wonderful goofy so go on with yours now go on like ah say some little gorish Well, nice to be here. yeah oh and like um Nice to have you here. and ah Okay.
00:56:37
Speaker
Not much better. You can't, you can't, you can't tell the difference. See? All right. So my question for you is how much do you love Peter Pan's flight? Is that your favorite ride? Peter Pan. Peter Pan. Oh, I love Peter Pan's flight. I do. I love Peter Pan's flight. What else do you like? Like the Bob Sluts? Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:07
Speaker
Yeah, is there, you know, is, is there, is there a ride if you were still working, is there a ride that you would want to, you'd want to change or fix at the Disney park?
Advice for Young People and Astronaut Stories
00:57:18
Speaker
Those are, I don't know if you guys realize how deep these questions are. I haven't, for one, I haven't thought in those terms, so if I retired and I retired a while back, I'm getting a reflection from the outside.
00:57:38
Speaker
Um, but I used to think in those terms and then I used to think also, you know, which rise it would get rid of and Peter Pan is one of them. Um, oh but to it's too big of a question. and be again and It tell me going to, for example, going to Disneyland and, and going on the rides to think them out again.
00:58:03
Speaker
It wouldn't be a matter of what do I remember when I went last, you know, it has to be something today. And they have done changes that I haven't seen. So it's like.
00:58:15
Speaker
but we Well, we could even shift gears. So what if, and forgive me if somebody already asked this, my connection's been sort of in and out a little bit tonight. um But here's a hypothetical. You know, i ah a young woman comes up to you and and she knows you, knows your story, and she asks for advice. you know So what what advice would you give a young woman who's this aspiring to to enter the field of of architecture or imagineering? The advice wouldn't matter if it's for a woman or a young guy. and you i yeah My first advice would be ah do what you have a passion for, no matter what it is.
00:59:02
Speaker
go do what you have a passion for because if you do what you have a passion for, for one, you won't get bored or you won't get tired of it. yeah You'll want to grow in it and you're going to be good in it because you have a passion. And and that's that the thing because i I get, it's a good question because I do get young people come and ask me, you know, about uh, very young people actually, how much do I make as an architect Disney? You know, like maybe I want to do that. And I and i always say, if you're going to go do something because of what you think you're going to make, that's a mistake to begin with. Mistake number one, just don't, don't, don't go there. Right. and so
00:59:47
Speaker
Yeah. and And just believe in yourself and and know what you want to do. And don't be afraid to go and do it, no matter how hard it is. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, there's there books i I read. I love to read. So there's a couple books I've been reading lately. One is called The War of Art. you think that You know, usually it's The Art of War. Well, this is The War of Art by Steven Pressfield. And and he he talks about You know, the the creative, if you're a creative type, there's always going to be all this resistance that you're going to face and self doubt and all. And, you know, you have to overcome all those things, certainly. But, you know, when you're motivated, let's say you're motivated by money.
01:00:32
Speaker
You know, that's there's something in life that kind of goes, okay, that's a little vapid, that's a little shallow. You know, I mean, people can tell, but when you're truly motivated by your passion, when you're truly motivated by the things that you're you're just in of love with, man, and you you do the work, and and you you overcome the resistance, and you somehow make it through, and I mean,
01:00:58
Speaker
That's that's I mean, you're one of them, you know, that you're one of those people where that's where good stories are told and, and you know, lives make a difference. So. and like So. um Yeah. I'll go on a rabbit trail. It's an alley bear. ah Go for it. When I worked on on EPCOT,
01:01:26
Speaker
um I got to know Gordon Cooper pretty well, the astronaut. And there was a small group of us who actually would go to the park next door and have lunches together and listen to his stories and stuff. And um i I just found out recently that Gordon Cooper belonged to the SECA, which is a race carco. And and And he did back then, he was still, yeah, he did back then. So does my husband. Have I known that? Oh my goodness. we could We would have gone to race the races together because my husband's still race. And that's, that's just that like a line of connection that I didn't know. And if
01:02:15
Speaker
even though we got to know each other pretty good pretty well. But most of us were really asking him questions about what was it like to be out there, you know, beyond the atmosphere of the earth and pissed off and mass stuff like that. What did he say? He
01:02:33
Speaker
so so At one point, he really went out there. He talked about the beauty and about how ah tiny we are. he He actually was very, very, and very deeply impressed about how tiny we are and how beautiful it is and how incredible it is that this human race exists in this immense universe.
01:02:55
Speaker
Um, he was very, very, very impressed by that. And then the other thing he, he actually battled mentally with the idea that it must be just impossible, absolutely impossible that it is in this immense universe. There are no other living creatures. He was really sad on believing that there's extra terrestrials.
01:03:20
Speaker
Well, I believe that I'm from Roswell. I'm from New Mexico. So we've we've had we've had aliens crash landing, parking their stupid spaceships in our in our state for years. So, you know, it's like, yeah, i'm of um' I believe them. I believe them. They're mostly politicians now. So it was bad, bad drivers. he his Right. there might My ex has been.
01:03:43
Speaker
and form i
01:03:46
Speaker
All right. So, Ellie, I got one softball question before we we wrap it up here. um And the question is, so, you know, when you got an imaginary, who was some of your mentors? Who did you look up to? And who did you, ah you know, ah strive to be more like when you were working there?
01:04:09
Speaker
Bill Martin was a good mentor. He's the one who hired me and his background was in architecture. ah But he was so busy and in managing the whole department that he wasn't into building this item as much. um and her Herbie, Herb Ryman,
01:04:29
Speaker
He in an indirect way was a mentor in that when he painted and which it was an amazing astounding to watch him paint and talked about what he's painting and how he's thinking about and everything. That was a lesson in design and of its own. And let's see, I had um Stan Jukovitz and David Ott, I don't know if you have heard their names, but they were both working in the architectural department back then. Incredibly talented men. ah David Ott, he was Mr. Castle. I mean, he he worked on every detail, like the Florida Castle. It's mostly his drawings that that got that castle up there. And and
01:05:14
Speaker
it So I was, I learned a lot about you know medieval and Renaissance architecture from them. And then um from the art directors, I learned, I learned the importance of story. And um even on on year of Disney, ah Tony Baxter was ah the lead oh ah design art director for the park and then there were individual ones for each land and ah Tom Morris was on Fantasyland and um um Jeff Burke was Adventureland and I worked with both of them. And um they they both
01:05:56
Speaker
ah just the story and knowing how not to lose story and it's so easy to lose story if you blow off on the rabbit trail.
01:06:08
Speaker
So from those two, I learned how to stick to story and from Tony Baxter and Tim Delaney was doing Discoveryland and i I actually was more, he was not in sync with the rest of the park as far as schedule. So oh I didn't get to see a lot of what he was doing, but when I would see it, I was amazed at what he was doing. um Chris Cheats was Adventureland also. He did wonderful work.
01:06:37
Speaker
um So the art directors, even though they were all very young at that time, they they were already pretty settled about knowing what they needed to do. And that it was it was good to to be working, you know, next to them. I'm sure, I mean, Mark Davis was there, Claude Coase, and Claudio Mazzoli, who did those fabulous paintings of EPCOT.
01:07:05
Speaker
before when it was still in the storyline. And then there there was, you know, I worked with Ray Bradbury and he was not an employee. He was hired to to help with the story for or a Spaceship Earth. And ah I was so fortunate that somebody like my handwriting on my own storyboards were world showcase that they invited me into the workroom, were they doing the story for Spaceship Earth? And I was writing all the storyboard cards for them and and got to know Ray Barry and and oh John DeKier Jr. And of course, Marty was always is there too for for the story. And I think that's the first time I really got to know him really well. I'm forgetting somebody to know. Just great people, great minds doing great things.
01:08:00
Speaker
Well, the two that were not employees of that guy but major part of story were very, very important Cooper. Yeah. Um, and they influenced my life, I would say.
01:08:15
Speaker
I did Bill Evans when I worked on the landscape stuff, which was not my background, but needed to get on. So I was there helping. And so I learned a lot about story from him too, and and it had to do with how we had done the landscaping at Disneyland, the original landscaping that goes with each story of each land. And, um,
01:08:39
Speaker
I think everybody that I had met in my first three years of web influenced my whole life. It just, it's just, it would be unfair to leave everybody out on the list. And a lot of the names are not known, like Stan Ucovitz, amazing artist, and Jack Vellan, another one. I learned,
01:09:07
Speaker
He was an OO holder for me because he was a very frustrated and very gifted architect working on on the new projects that she included at Khan.
01:09:19
Speaker
And he was frustrated because he was a real artist at heart. And all he wanted to do was paint. He didn't want to do architecture. And yet that's what his profession was. in And I actually I remember being very young and having these conversations with him. And he spoke French because he was French. So he loved speaking with me because I spoke French. He would tell me things that it probably he wouldn't tell everybody. But I actually remember the moment that I was standing there talking to him once and thinking, I hope I'm not like him when I'm his age because he is frustrated. He's not doing what he loves to do, which is paint. And um eventually he did. He did. He left architecture and he went into painting happy man. And I thought, good, good. But it made me think like,
01:10:10
Speaker
I hope I don't get it that way at that age, that age. I mean, he probably was 20 years younger than I am now. But he looked old to me back then. so And people outside of both of the profession who who to have part of the design process for show lighting and sound design and and all sorts of things.
Joe Rohde and Epcot Pavilion Developments
01:10:40
Speaker
um I learned from every single person
01:10:45
Speaker
From Joe Rody, I learned what it is, tri just tersever really persevere. He wanted Animal Kingdom. he didn't He really fought for that part. And he did a great job amassing the the team that we were and what we did together. And he he really, he is a personification of perseverance and doing what you love and believing, believing it's going to be good no matter what anybody says. Yeah. And I love Animal Kingdom, by the way.
01:11:15
Speaker
I really do, yeah. You too. I have a quick question about Epcot, so that when you worked on the World Showcase, that was your favorite project, correct? um Back then, yeah. ah If I were to look at the World Showcase, what would I see that would reflect what you mostly contributed to? Which pavilion? Some of the pavilions design stock.
01:11:41
Speaker
For example, in the English Pavilion, some of the elevations of stuff I had done way back then before they even had you know project teams for each one of the pavilions and that stuff. There was another one, which one was it? Oh, Germany. I worked quite a bit on Germany and a lot of that stuff.
01:11:57
Speaker
A lot of that stuck. Yeah. Yeah. oh So, yeah, and then um I didn't work through the construction of that project. I would, you know, it would have been good if I could have, but I was outside of the company when that was being constructed.
01:12:14
Speaker
I would have learned sooner what it means to be constructing the thematic design and how how it is such a specialty to be able to do the different textures, to create a land, a building, a waterfront, rock work, whatever. it's um I would have learned sooner, and I'm fascinated by that. I love that. I was very involved with that in Hong Kong and Shanghai, helping lead the process for for ah sample boards of what thematic finishes should look like. And this is what we need to teach people in, for example, Shanghai, that are going to be building these buildings and putting the finishes. We need to teach them to do it like this, you know that thing.
01:12:57
Speaker
If you could add another pavilion to Epcot, what would it be? Brazil? think It would be your answer there. Yeah. Brazil would be good. i But um I really like the design I had done for ah for Israel. Oh, wow. And it's still there in the archives. um that would be really nice to do. so I would do certain things differently because I took more of the historic um ah old architecture idea, but I probably would i um but interface some of the advancements that they have done, you know, to create the country. um Of course, you have to
01:13:47
Speaker
There's, there's things you you want to do, but you can't because of the world situations. You know, I know exactly. And, and I would love to see an Israel rebellion. I would love it. It'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:02
Speaker
just to think of of all the different countries that you could add to the World Showcase. I mean, there's, you know, you got to wear from aus Australia to Iceland to Greenland and and you know yeah India, India, India. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. yeah and it And it's like, it's like some of the countries that you think should be there or not there. And it's just like, you know, you only have enough room for what you have. I mean, unless you're going to cram it down to where you're just going to get a snippet of each country and that. So it's kind of, it's kind of catch 22 because you're, you're looking at it and say, okay, do we add a country? Do we take a country away?
01:14:46
Speaker
Well, that that outpost area can give. Yeah. I mean, I always wondered, that's, that's the prime place to put something. I did do a ah very nice design for the Australia pavilion that I liked very much too. So how yeah we're having these, how'd you read the cities? Where are they? yeah but they're and They're in the archives somewhere. Yeah.
01:15:09
Speaker
There's somewhere in there. Yeah, but Morocco got built and that was good. And Germany ah got built and in England and a lot of them got built. Norway, Norway came in later, but it did get built. So yeah.
01:15:25
Speaker
So how many were there originally? Did you have to pick and choose? Did you have like maybe 25 and then you cut it down to what's there now or how, how, how did that come about to, okay, here, here's our listed countries. Here there's, you know, you pull out of a hat and say, or how did you guys do that? How do you determine which countries were there? I think, I think at the time that I was designing, there was no,
01:15:54
Speaker
ah no ah filter, you know, a corporate filter looking at it. It was really Harper Goff trying to sell his idea of what a world showcase could look like. So um I think I designed, I don't know, more than 12 pavilions at that time. And um and there were other pavilions signed by others. So we had a lot of pavilions on that model.
01:16:17
Speaker
um um Eventually, when it became a real project that was accepted corporately, I am sure it went through a filtration system, and it also went through um you know corporate salesmanship because these were going to be ah you know, paid for by the current countries, too. It's not all, you know, the same money going into it. It has to be also attributed by the countries. So I'm sure they have many meetings with different ah country, or you know, politicians.
01:16:50
Speaker
leaders and to to determine what potato they can't be done and how much and all that. Yeah. So, but that's that I was never involved with. Never. Um, that's, that's not, ah um, that's the level of, that's a different level. Yeah. It's a corporate force, corporate salesmanship and, and, on and planning and, and how much to spend money on and not lose for the company and stuff like that. That,
01:17:20
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's good to to hear there was no world world cave. I mean world showcase survivor going on and whatever, you know, they come by and put your torch out and then your country has
Book Promotion and Podcast Outro
01:17:33
Speaker
to leave. So that's kind of, that's kind of nice. Um, Oh yeah. So, all right. So we're going to go ahead and wrap up this episode and, um, Ellie, before we go and before we sign off, is there, uh, anything you want to plug you want to tell us about social media or anything like that? for Well, yeah absolutely ah for ah for those who have not read the book of women, Walt Disney Imagineering,
01:18:02
Speaker
isn't worthwhile really, not only for the women, it's it's for men and and young young professionals. And i think I think right now we're in the, I think the third edition is coming out. um So it's been well accepted. And you should know that all of us authors for this book, we all, um the money to that we have made um you know, but the publishing paid us, Disney Publishing paid us to have our stories. We are all agree, each one of us, to donate our money for education of young people and what they believe they want to do in their life. So so that's a worthwhile cause, I think. Yeah, you know.
01:18:52
Speaker
Yeah. And, and for those who've been following along with this podcast, we had Peggy Farris on as well. And she's in the book as well. So, um, there's a lot of amazing people in there. So go ahead and, uh, definitely check the book out and, um, find out about you know, different women and what they did where to ah with, with, with the imaginary and how they, uh, they left a legacy and they left a mark on, uh, not just what the visiting world, but the other, uh, parks across the, uh, the landscape. So, um, and, and just, just read the book. I mean, it's just, it is just something,
01:19:42
Speaker
You know, one one of the big thing is we know all about ah the the big names in Imagineering, but there's just so many other people that you don't know about that have ah have done so much hard work to are make this a a success. So that this book is a good starting point if you do that not know um about any of the women and their contributions to Disney.
01:20:10
Speaker
and And most of us authors, there's 12 of us in this book. um The majority of us worked on every single park in the world. Disney Park. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.
01:20:26
Speaker
great. So again, um, we want to thank Ellie for joining us tonight and, uh, you can, um, hear her episode coming up shortly and we want to thank you for tuning into another episode of sharing the magic here. It's always great to ah hear stories and hear conversations with just different Disney people and and hear about how, uh, how they just continue to amaze me every week. I'm just blown away by, by these stories. So, um, go ahead and find us, uh, on social media. Uh, we're at sharing the magic and you can also find us on all, uh, podcasts platforms at sharing the magic podcast. And then until next time, keep sharing the magic.