Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
168. Kevin Love and the Courage to Ask for Help
58 Plays18 days ago
In this powerful episode of the Especially for Athletes Podcast, Shad Martin and Dustin Smith discuss men's mental health, the stigma surrounding emotional struggles, and the courage required to ask for help. Using the story of NBA All-Star Kevin Love and his public battle with panic attacks and anxiety, they explore why mental health deserves the same attention and care as physical injuries. Whether you're an athlete, coach, parent, or teammate, this conversation will help you better understand the importance of checking on others, speaking up when you're struggling, and creating environments where people feel safe asking for help.
Key Takeaways
1. Mental health struggles are real—even when you can't see them.
Just because an injury isn't visible doesn't mean it isn't serious. Anxiety, depression, and panic attacks can impact performance and quality of life just as much as physical injuries.
2. Asking for help is not weakness—it is courage.
Real strength is not pretending everything is fine. Real strength is having the humility and courage to admit when you're struggling and seek help.
3. Success does not immunize anyone from mental health challenges.
Kevin Love was an NBA All-Star at the height of his career when he experienced a panic attack. Mental health struggles can affect anyone regardless of talent, success, popularity, or income.
4. Coaches and parents should keep their eyes up.
Great coaches don't just develop athletes; they develop people. Pay attention to behavioral changes and create safe opportunities for athletes to talk.
5. Great teammates notice and respond.
LeBron James's response to Kevin Love's article is a model of leadership. Great teammates don't judge; they support.
6. Silence is the greatest ally of mental health struggles.
Mental health issues often remain hidden because people fear what others will think. Honest conversations break down stigma and create healing.
7. One person's courage can help thousands.
When Kevin Love shared his story publicly, he gave countless others permission to seek help and realize they weren't alone.
Links
- Full ESPN interview with Kevin Love - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW2LVIp9QcU
- Kevin Love's Player Tribune article - https://www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/kevin-love-everyone-is-going-through-something
00:32:17 - Introduction: Men's Mental Health Month
00:34:17 - Kevin Love's Panic Attack Story
00:37:02 - Why Mental Health Injuries Are Different
00:38:17 - Dustin Shares His Own Experience with Panic Attacks
00:41:47 - Why Athletes Often Stay Silent
00:43:32 - The Stigma Around Mental Health
00:45:32 - Courage vs. Weakness
00:47:17 - Why Athletes Fear Asking for Help
00:49:17 - What Coaches Can Do
00:53:17 - Why Admitting You Need Help Is Courage
00:55:17 - Kevin Love's Decision to Speak Out
00:57:17 - Why Mental Health Is Harder to Discuss Than Physical Health
01:00:17 - LeBron James's Powerful Response
01:02:17 - Leadership and Looking Out for Teammates
01:05:17 - Freedom Through Honest Conversations
01:08:17 - Final Message to Athletes, Coaches, and Parents
01:11:17 - Keep Your Eyes Up and Do the Work
⸻
Especially for Athletes:
- Website: https://e4a.org
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EspeciallyForAthletes/
- X: https://x.com/E4Afamily
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/especiallyforathletes/
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmbWc7diAvstLMfjBL-bMMQ
Join the conversation using #E4APodcast
⸻
Credits: Hosted by Dustin Smith
Produced by E4A and IMAGINATE STUDIO
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Men's Mental Health
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Especially for Athletes podcast where we explore essential principles that empower athletes to learn life's most valuable lessons through sports.
00:00:15
Speaker
Dustin, I'm so excited for this podcast this week with it being Men's Mental Health Month and so I'm going to go right into it but how are you man? I'm good man let's i'm I'm excited as well let's uh Men's Mental Health Month. i didn't I saw a post on that the other day, and ah I haven't looked deep into it, but I think every month should be Men's Mental Health Month and Women's Mental Health Month. But yeah, I'm glad to talk a little bit about that today, Chad. So let's, yeah, let's hop in.
00:00:44
Speaker
Awesome. So today we're going to talk about something that affects almost every athlete, coach, father, and young man that we know. Not injuries, not failure, not pressure. Yeah.
00:00:56
Speaker
but mental
Kevin Love's Mental Health Journey
00:00:57
Speaker
health. And I think it's fitting that we're having this conversation because as we've talked about, June is Men's Mental Health Month. For generations, many men have been handed an unwritten playbook. Be strong.
00:01:09
Speaker
Don't show weakness. Handle your problems to yourself. Keep your feelings to yourself. And for a lot of men, especially athletes, that playbook sounds normal. It sounds tough.
00:01:20
Speaker
It sounds like strength. But if some of the things that we've been taught about toughness actually are hurting us, then we need to address them.
00:01:32
Speaker
And one of the strongest things that a person can do is admit that they're struggling and ask for help. And today we're going to talk about a story of NBA All-Star Kevin Love, his panic attack, what he learned about mental health and how his courage has helped thousands of people realize that they're not alone. And so so first let's talk, Dustin, just about what he experienced. So he wrote an article in the Players' Tribune, which was awesome.
00:02:01
Speaker
And he said this, growing up, you figure out really quick how a boy is supposed to act. Be strong. Don't talk about your feelings.
00:02:13
Speaker
Get through it on your own. And Kevin spent 29 years following that playbook. Mental health was something that happened to other people, or so he thought, and then came November fifth And I just want to play this clip, Dustin, about what he experienced on November 5th years back. So here it is.
00:02:37
Speaker
Let's talk about the panic attack for minute because that's when the world got a little glimpse of what was going on. So take us through what happened that night. Well, it was very scary for me because i I have always had the anxiety and like a lot of people when, you know, either it's like, you know, for example, you want to go to bed and or you want to go to sleep and think i have a big game the next day. And so what happens? You plan your routine, you try to go to sleep, you get ready, and then you dig up the worst things that have happened the last 10 years for you.
00:03:04
Speaker
So... I think it was a combination of of things that were going on in my life that led up to that point, as well as it was a 5-7 start. And on November 5th, I just remember not quite feeling right. remember we went through a few plays. There was a timeout. I got to the huddle, and that's when I just i felt something that I'd never felt before. i I couldn't catch my breath.
00:03:28
Speaker
I felt like my mind was completely out. And Ty Lue had said something to me. I told him, I'll be right back. I ran in the locker room. i was essentially searching for something that I couldn't find. I didn't know this feeling. And then I just basically ran to our trainer's room, fell on the ground, collapsed. And, you know, my heart was jumping out of my chest and i couldn't get air to my lungs.
Social Stigma and Mental Health
00:03:51
Speaker
And, you know, essentially was, was,
00:03:53
Speaker
Trying to clear my throat, sticking my hand down my throat, trying to get myself there. Yeah, so it was It was terrifying. It was terrifying. I thought I was having a heart attack. I really felt like I was going to die in this moment. I get like, I'm getting hot thinking about it. It was a moment that nobody wants to have, but it was very eye-opening. And then going to the hospital after that, everything checked out.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I was basically thinking myself, well, what happened?
00:04:24
Speaker
yes One thing I appreciate about Kevin Love's story is how honest he is. He wasn't weak. He wasn't lazy. He wasn't soft. He was suffering, and he didn't even know it.
00:04:35
Speaker
He said, it was like my body was trying to tell me you're about to die. And so think about that. One of the toughest athletes in the world believed he was dying, and yet people still think mental health struggles aren't real because they can't see them. And I just want to show you one other clip here, Dustin, and get your thoughts on this because I know it's something you're passionate about. This is what another another part of that interview.
00:05:01
Speaker
You know, it's interesting when you have an injury, so to speak, and you have a you know a knee injury or my hand or, you know, it's an ankle sprain. It's a lot different when you can't see it.
00:05:14
Speaker
And somebody doesn't know what's going on outside the lines. Everybody's going through something. Success is not immune to depression.
00:05:26
Speaker
That says an estimated 31% of men, this is Men's Mental Health Month, will experience that severe anxiety and depression at some point.
00:05:38
Speaker
in their life. And that that's a powerful statement, I think. Everybody's going through something. Success is not immune to depression. Success doesn't immunize us from that pain of anxiety and depression. Money doesn't. Athletic ability doesn't. Popularity doesn't. Mental health challenges can affect anyone. So Dustin, I know this is not only something that you're passionate about, but one of the main roots of the reasons why you began, especially for athletes. And I just wanted to ask a question after that. Just what stood out to you most about
00:06:13
Speaker
Kevin Love's description of, of the panic attack and of his, his experiences. And why do you think we often treat emotional pain differently than physical pain? Well, I think he, uh, well, thanks Shad for making, for finding those clips for this. Cause I hadn't seen those. And, uh,
00:06:32
Speaker
Kevin Love's a guy that we actually have an invite out to right now to try to get him on this podcast through the jazz and hoping we can get him on. um A lot caught me in that. that I don't want to spend a ah ton of time um discussing this point, but At the end there, he talked about how it's hard to see it. you know when it When an athlete rolls an ankle or hurts their knee, yeah they not only can you see it, because you can see the way they walk, they're limp being right or they're swollen or whatever, but theyre you can also, it's there's not a stigma about asking for help.
00:07:09
Speaker
if you turned your ankle or hurt your knee or right got a concussion, you everybody would expect you to go to the trainer and they would expect that you were going to
Role of Coaches and Teammates
00:07:18
Speaker
physical therapy and they would expect that you might be out for ah several days. And during that time, you'd be doing rehab and doing things to improve the injury. But for some reason with mental health,
00:07:31
Speaker
there's this fear of going and asking the mental health trainer, right? The, the ankle or knee or back or head trainer, there's nothing wrong with that. Go talk to the trainer, go to the doctor, go get it looked at, go get an MRI, go get an x-ray.
00:07:44
Speaker
But with the mental health thing, it's, you're going to go talk to somebody about your problems, your issues, your, your, you know, your stresses, your, you're go know talk to somebody about these things and they'll help you. And it's somehow thought of as, as a weakness. And it's not as much as it was, you know, when we were in high school or college, I, I don't even remember this existing. That's, what's the weirdest thing is maybe people were dealing with it and just not, I don't know. I don't know if if the world for more stress now, if has something to do with with phones or social media. i mean, we kind of blame everything on that, but I don't know. I just, it's definitely ah more of a thing now. We, at least we're talking about it. So I think it's becoming less of a stigma that you're weak or soft if you deal with that stuff.
00:08:30
Speaker
But for those who have dealt with it, men like who have dealt with it,
00:08:37
Speaker
athletes who have dealt with it, coaches who have dealt with it, like the one talking to you right now, who's had that exact same thing that Kevin just talked about. I had the exact same thing a couple times. thought I was having a heart attack.
00:08:51
Speaker
chest. I don't know what's going on. It was middle of the night. It was, and you can't get the breath that happened for a long time. And it would occasionally come back. And I'm like, what is going on? And it, when it would come back during stressful moments in your life and you'd feel it coming on, you don't know what to do because you, people can't see what's going on. And you almost wish you could have somebody come and hit you in the leg with a bat so that you could say, I need help. Right. Everybody can see it. Um, so it's, it's a hard thing and I've coached kids who have dealt with it and we've had to have a, I mean we one time stopped practice and we made the whole morning practice just talking about mental health.
00:09:31
Speaker
Um, actually you met the, you met one of the kids that day that had been to that, to that practice. You'd, you'd been at visiting that school and are visiting that school I was coaching at. And it was because I knew that how can I expect a hundred percent of an athlete physically, war the weight room sprints, knowing his job, executing it.
00:09:53
Speaker
If he's only operating on a 40 or 50% mental and emotional, um, capability, And as coaches and parents, if we don't recognize that we can do all we want to make our child bigger, faster, stronger, and more skilled, so and then think, well, then they should play. Look how good they are. But if they're struggling with mental health, and they're really struggling with it, they're not going to perform to the best of their ability, no matter how much they can bench or how fast they can run.
00:10:20
Speaker
And that's, it's going to be something that when it creeps up, it might tip over the top of the cup and be just draining out. And and like Kevin Love got to a position where he just couldn't control it. It was out of control and he had to go to the hospital. And, and it did frustrate me too there at the end when he said, you know, he goes to the hospital and they say everything checks out because I, that's a feeling that so many people have. They come back and they're like, they said, I'm fine.
00:10:46
Speaker
You almost want them to say you had a heart attack. Yeah. Right. you or Or to say something's wrong with you. Take this, take this pill or do these exercises or you need to get more, whatever. But when the answer is just not everything looks good, you you probably had a anxiety or a panic attack and it's passed off as like, oh, you probably got a, you know, an overnight bug. You got that. You got a cold, but it's not. And so it's something we have to not only talk about,
00:11:15
Speaker
But we've got to help people find solutions to dealing with it. And we need to be sensitive and understanding to people that are. ah And like like he said, it doesn't discriminate between money, color, gender, age, success. It doesn't matter.
00:11:31
Speaker
It'll attack anybody.
Breaking the Stigma Through Openness
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah. And to that point, the stigma in the article he wrote, and we'll put the link to the article in the show notes here, but... He said this, he said, I remember being more relieved than anything that nobody found out why I left the game.
00:11:49
Speaker
So, you know, yeah there it is he wasn't afraid of the panic attack. He wasn't afraid. he would He was afraid people would find out. And why is because of stigma. In fact, let me play this clip, Dustin, further on in the interview.
00:12:06
Speaker
He talked about what you're talking about now with stigma. And he was worried that people would think less of him. And many athletes are taught that asking for help is weakness. And so listen to this portion of the interview. I think you'll like it. I couldn't go a few minutes without so another person in that community I talk about coming forward and saying, hey, this this is my experience and I want to share this with you. So it was a way of seeing a lot of people or being vulnerable.
00:12:40
Speaker
and also, you know, sharing these experiences and and having that community and saying, we need to, we need to beat down the stigma together. So stigma is still the problem. There's still plenty of guys that have issues and they don't need to come forward to me or to you, but they do need to get the help. But there are players out there that think you're soft because you did this. They think DeMar's soft. They're going to think everybody that comes forward is soft. What do you say to them? Like it's such a tired,
00:13:05
Speaker
statement like I've i' put my time in in this league guys put their time in this league to be in the NBA you're not soft and to come forward with this it's like i said that's that's tired it's outdated and it actually in the end is probably for me it was the best thing I did and it's only going to help you moving forward and it doesn't just mean basketball players or anywhere in sports this isn't everyone and every human thing
00:13:33
Speaker
That was great. It it is tired. I agree with that. it We're so done. Oh, come on. let's let's were we're We're over that, I hope. Yeah. and He said this in the article.
00:13:44
Speaker
He said, well, first of all, i mean, you and I would both agree and what he's saying here to that softness, you know, that it's not weakness to admit that you're you're struggling. It's actually courage. And you and I have taught a lot about courage, the difference between courage and And what some would say courage is Courage involves fear. it's It's acting in spite of your fear. So it's okay to feel afraid of what are people going to think.
00:14:16
Speaker
But the courageous thing to do if you're having these struggles, and sometimes it's way beyond panic attacks, it's suicidal ideation and things like that.
00:14:27
Speaker
Courage is not holding it in. It's actually going against that fear and telling somebody. And he said, I didn't want people to perceive me as somehow less reliable as a teammate.
00:14:43
Speaker
And I wonder how many athletes have felt that. How many young men or young women have felt that. If I tell someone I'm struggling, what will they think? Will they respect me? Will they trust me? Will they see me in the same way?
00:14:56
Speaker
Why do you think, Dustin, that so many athletes are afraid to admit when they're struggling mentally or emotionally? and And what message would you have for those who listen to this podcast and for those who are members of our program about asking for help?
00:15:17
Speaker
it's To answer the first question, i think I think there's a fear there because you kind of answered it in the in the lead up there that to kevin Kevin saying that, you know, what will people think? Will they trust me?
00:15:30
Speaker
i think there is a fear that if I say I'm struggling with this, then my coach is going to feel like I am mentally not ready to handle the game, right? I can't handle the stress or so they're not going to play me as much or they're not going to trust me in a big moment because they're afraid I'm going to have a mental break, you know, a panic attack or a breakdown or something. And so, and you know, to be honest with you, i can't, i I can't tell you that every coach having somebody say that to them might not think that, might not wonder, are they going to have a breakdown in the middle of the game? and And then what? um
00:16:07
Speaker
Just like you would wonder if somebody came back from a knee injury, is it really healed on that first game? You'd be a little nervous. Are they going to be able to get through this? we got to cut their reps a little bit so they don't go overboard this first game. And and I just think people say, i don't want to deal with even the possibility of that or my coach thinking that or doing that. And so they just, they don't talk about it. And then they go out and they perform on, you know, half a mental and emotional tank and they can't, they're not going to be their best. And, but at least, and then they can blame it on maybe an injury or something else. But the truth is the problem's not physical.
Redefining Strength in Mental Health
00:16:41
Speaker
It's a mental deal, an emotional deal. And so I think, you know, we need to have coaches understand at least the kids I've dealt with,
00:16:49
Speaker
that have struggled with this, if I was talked with them and I would regularly, I go to the, sometimes I'd even pop in at the school during the day and pull a kid out just cause I, the way I'd seen him, I saw a kid once just at a, at a grocery store and just the way he was acting, something was off. And so the next day I went to the school and pulled him out of class and just said, what's going on? Are you good? Are you okay?
00:17:12
Speaker
And I think it's just trying to recognize that they may, once you know, or you think, you know, if make it easier for the kid by pulling the kid aside and saying, hey, are you good? It's okay if you aren't. I mean, talk to me. let's I need to know it's your coach, but if you are, let's get you help. And so to get ahead of it as a coach or as a parent so that there's this, maybe this,
00:17:34
Speaker
it's easier for the kid to say, yeah, i'm I am. I'm okay now. Cause what I found is when the kid was good, no coach, I'm good. I feel good today. I'm good. He was good. Like he was fine. And he'd go do just fine. I didn't need to worry about it when he was struggling. As long as I could talk with him and help him through it, we could get him back to good,
00:17:52
Speaker
But, you know, if he sat out for a practice or missed it a minute or 10 minutes or whatever, it wasn't the end of the world. um And, you know, and at the ah at the end of the day, Shad, as parents and coaches, we have to remember it's about, you know it's the kid and his growth and or her growth.
00:18:11
Speaker
And their development is more important than the wins. And so at the end of the day, if they say they're struggling with that, drop what you're doing and be a dad or a coach or a mom and talk with them and check on them and do what you should do just as a friend or as a human.
00:18:24
Speaker
And, you know, recognize that mental health isn't a, it can be helped, it can be worked on, but we need to make sure our kids are feeling open about talking about it and getting the help that they need. And as coaches and parents, we need to understand that doesn't mean they can't come out and still perform well, you know, that night, but they may need to be worked on just like they may need to.
00:18:47
Speaker
I, when I had my elbow surgery shot when we were in college, I had to go through a longer process to get ready before I could play. I think that's why we became such good friends, Dustin, is I had just injured my knee and we're in there getting ultrasounds together. Yeah, yeah, getting worked on it. Yeah, yeah. and And, you know, after that elbow surgery, there was a process before and after games to get it back, right?
00:19:10
Speaker
And back to where it needed to be. What might be the same thing with the mental health thing, but it didn't mean I couldn't go out and play. I just had to go through a process to get ready and I had to go through a process after to heal completely.
00:19:21
Speaker
Otherwise, it would take days and days and days. And that may be the case with somebody struggling with mental health. But we've got to be able to talk about it and they Let the kids feel open enough to talk about it as if they would, they have an elbow problem or they have a knee problem and go to the trainer and get help.
00:19:37
Speaker
We can take you to a trainer and get you help, but because it's invisible sometimes, we need your help in talking to us about it. But we as adults can make that easier if we'll kind of open that door by us. Let's talk about it. young man, or, you know, let's talk to me what's going on and let it, you know, let's get to that point instead of saying, wait, they, they, they can come talk to me and I'll work with them and I'm okay with it. And I don't, I'm not going to, know, it's hard for a kid to come. It's hard for anybody shot. And we've said this before and I'll, and I'll finish on this.
00:20:09
Speaker
I've said this, I don't know how many hundreds of times when speaking at his first, especially for athletes. Um, and even in other to, even at adults in, in a corporate corporate setting, I've said this,
00:20:20
Speaker
And you touched on it earlier. That's why I want to come back to it. We think that being courageous and tough oftentimes is not talking about it and just toughing it it out, right?
00:20:31
Speaker
I'm not going to tell anybody I'm tough. I'll just get through it. It's like if my knee was hurting and I said, you know what? Forget. I'm not telling anybody. I'm just going to play through the pain. No one's going to know. I'm tough.
00:20:42
Speaker
and And I'm not going to show any emotion and no one's going to know that my knee is hurting me. I'll be, that's what toughness, I'm being brave doing that. I'm being selfless for the team because I'm not going to even, I'm not going to let them take me out for an injury. I'm going to be tough. Okay.
00:20:55
Speaker
Okay. And the mental health thing, I would argue that's in this, I could, but I'm sure people could argue with me on this, but I think it's a fair argument for the sake of argument. Isn't it easier to do that?
00:21:10
Speaker
for most of us, than to go and tell somebody we need help. Aren't we as human beings kind of wired? It's harder for us to admit to somebody that we need their help and that we're not right, that we might need some counsel or something than it is to just say, I'll just grit my teeth and get through it. I think gritting your teeth and just I'll tough it out is the easier way out.
00:21:32
Speaker
I think the harder and tougher thing to do is to actually admit that you're struggling and be humble enough to go to somebody and say, I'm struggling. Will you help me?
00:21:44
Speaker
That's the harder thing to do, which goes back to your point, is the courageous thing to do. It's not to just tough it out and just try to get through it and hope no one finds out about it. That's that's not the harder thing. The harder thing is getting help, I think, for most people, just because it's it's not something we like to do is ask for help, most of them, especially athletes. I don't think their egos get in the way.
00:22:05
Speaker
this We want to take a quick break and thank our friends at Mountain America Credit Union for sponsoring this episode of the Especially for Athletes podcast. At E4A, we believe sports are about more than winning games. They're about building character, serving others, and preparing young people for life.
00:22:24
Speaker
That's one reason we love partnering with Mountain America through scholarships, community programs, youth support, and their commitment to people helping people They are invested in the next generation on and off the field.
00:22:39
Speaker
We're grateful for organizations that believe in lifting others and helping young people move forward. Now back to the podcast. When you were talking about a coach keeping their eyes up, we would say coaches keep your eyes up and do the work. If you see someone that's struggling, you know, just having...
00:22:58
Speaker
the ability to stand in front of your team and say, hey, if any of you are going through something, I want you to know I'm your coach and I'm trying to help you be the best player you could be. But I also want to be a mentor and I want to be there for you. And I hope that you won't stay silent about these things. I'm not going to think less of you. In fact, it'll help you become a better player, which is what I'm all about. If if you could if you could address these things. And so Kevin Love actually...
00:23:25
Speaker
here's Here's another clip where he talks about why he decided to write the article in the Players' Tribune, knowing that some would view him as soft.
00:23:37
Speaker
But this is really important, I think, what why he wrote it. Here's what he said. I really do believe in in in writing my piece that everybody is going through something. So knowing that it doesn't discriminate and knowing that I'm trying to change the stigma, not only for, you know, people in sports, but all over.
00:23:55
Speaker
And I remember talking to my agent he said, are you sure you want to do this? Because a lot of people are going to talk about it. said, Jeff, I don't know if anybody will, but, you know, just understand I'm trying to help people. He goes, I get it. If you help one person, you help one kid, it could be absolutely life-changing and groundbreaking for that kid.
00:24:14
Speaker
You know so he goes out there and his agents even warning him, right? Hey, if you write this, it's out there, you know, and that could affect you. But that statement gets me every time if it helps one kid and Kevin Love coming out and saying, hey, I'm i'm going through this.
00:24:32
Speaker
If he had worried more about what people thought than helping people and getting help himself, I just wonder how many people's lives wouldn't have been
Leadership and Empathy in Mental Health
00:24:41
Speaker
impacted. and And from his article, he said this, the biggest reason for me wasn't about a therapist.
00:24:47
Speaker
It was about confronting the fact that I needed help. And that's such an important distinction. The breakthrough wasn't therapy. The breakthrough was humility. The breakthrough was honesty.
00:25:00
Speaker
The breakthrough was saying, i need help. And as we've already talked about a number of times here, for whatever reason, Dustin, it's just so much easier to go to the sideline or to go to a coach before practice or to go to a parent or a friend and say, man, my knee, something's going on with my knee than it is to go and say, something's going on with me.
00:25:26
Speaker
Like emotionally, mentally, i'm I'm having a hard time. i know maybe it feels like we beat this to death. It's just so important, Dustin, that to that Why do you think that is? I mean, what is it about mental health and struggles that makes it so much harder to go to someone and talk about it than have a sprained knee or or my elbow is?
00:25:59
Speaker
i think the main reason, i think the main reason, Shad, is that i don't I don't know the numbers on this. We could probably find it. But if you if you grabbed 1,000 people and asked them if they've ever hurt their knee or hurt their back or hurt their ankle playing sports and felt like they couldn't play that next day or something, you'd probably get 1,000 athletes that would say, yes, I've done that.
00:26:24
Speaker
But if you asked 1,000 athletes or 1,000 people if they've had a panic attack right or an anxiety attack or been really depressed or something, I don't think there's that many that have had it happen, so they don't understand. And so if you have a coach that doesn't understand what that feels like, it comes across to the coach as somebody just doesn't want to practice. And they're i can where a coach could feel like,
00:26:49
Speaker
i can see where a coach could feel like on, you're having a bad day. Like, come on, man, I'm having a bad day too. We're all having bad days. Like yeah put it aside and come out to practice. It's only, you know, and go hard. And you broke up with your girlfriend.
00:27:03
Speaker
Come on. I had a girlfriend too in high school and I got through it. We don't remember how painful it was or cause we're old, but we, We just think that tough it up and come out here. But if the kid had a, if we could see that his ankle was swollen, I've had that happen too. You need to rest that. You won't be ready to play. That's got, you got to, here's what I did to fix my ankle. And right. And we, but we're not, you know i mean? I think that's where it is. There's not a lot of empathy there because. No, and and and I think we have to be careful.
00:27:33
Speaker
and So we have to be careful with, I think attacking maybe the coaches or the adult who doesn't understand that too much and just thinks it's because, i mean, i think if we're all honest, if there was an important something in our life, whatever it was, an important family event or something, and somebody said, I'm not going to go. And you said, why? And they said, because I'm just not, I'm feeling anxious.
00:27:56
Speaker
Or I'm feeling, you know, i you would kind of be like, what do you mean? This is an important event. Like, you need to come to this. If they were had a fever of 102 and they were coughing and they said, I'm sick, we'd say, okay, yes, of course, don't come.
00:28:11
Speaker
Because we could see it and we felt that and we know what that's like. Does that make sense? you go We would go to the wedding, if it was a wedding, and we would say, oh, they wanted to be here, but they just had this this terrible fever and didn't want to get anyone else sick. And we would feel so free to talk about that. If it was a mental health thing and a panic attack, we wouldn't go to the wedding and say, you know what?
00:28:34
Speaker
They were just having a really tough day emotionally. And people at the wedding would react different. They'd be like, oh, they were having a bad day so they couldn't come to the special event. yeah you know And so there's just so much less empathy on the side of society and those who haven't experienced it, which maybe, Dustin, this next clip, he talked about one of his teammates that everyone in the world knows.
00:29:00
Speaker
And I think this is inspiring. To see someone who some consider the greatest ever to play, but you're pretty great if you're in that debate, right? Whether you believe it or not.
00:29:14
Speaker
And listen to what he says about LeBron James and how when he wrote this article and came out and said, look, this is what I'm struggling with. He was teammates with LeBron James. And this is what he said about LeBron. this is I hope every coach and teammate and parent hears this from LeBron.
00:29:34
Speaker
So now i'm going to ask you what everyone wants to know. What's LeBron doing during this time? I remember the first thing he said to me after that came out was that, you know, shook my hand on the back of the bus. You know, I kind of let everybody get off and said, you really helped a lot of people today.
00:29:48
Speaker
helped a lot. Not only a lot of kids, you helped a lot of people. So that was a special moment. oh ah Like it sometimes for me, it helps to picture things happening.
00:30:00
Speaker
So everyone files off the bus, right? And here's one of the greatest ever to do it. Walks to the back of the bus to his teammate. Shakes his hand and said, what you did helped a lot of people today. Not just kids, but people.
00:30:19
Speaker
And LeBron didn't tell him toughen up. He didn't tell him get over it. He didn't make fun of him. He told him you helped a lot of people. And that's what great teammates do. Great teammates don't make people feel smaller. They help people feel seen and and they go help that person.
00:30:38
Speaker
And I just think they I would love to know your thoughts and what you would say to teammates to keep their eyes up and do the work and to look for these things in their own teammates and to respond in a LeBron-like way when they when there is a problem.
00:30:54
Speaker
Yeah, that that was an that was a great clip. I just gained a lot more respect for LeBron James. um Yeah. As a basketball player, you can't deny him how good he is. um is But as a leader right there, that was some serious leadership.
00:31:09
Speaker
And, you know, even letting everybody off the bus – presents a more intimate, like, hey, man, I want you to really know, meet you know, man to man, that that was like that. every The way he handled that was was just perfect and obviously made a big deal to to Kevin Love. So I would say to those of you are, you know, to the captains or to the leaders out there,
00:31:30
Speaker
you have a little bit more of a responsibility and that's why you're a captain. That's why you're a leader. And that's what comes with it. And you know you have to understand that that's now your job is to be more aware of those kind of things and to do what leaders do. If you see something, eyes up, you do something about it. You go to the back of the bus and you shake their hand you talk to them and you make sure they know that you appreciate them and that you understand. And as a captain or a leader, you have a responsibility that if you're struggling with that same stuff,
00:31:58
Speaker
that you need to get help. um Not only for your, of course, for you and your own life, but also because your team, they need you and and you're valued, important, and and they want you to get help. And that goes for adults too. That goes for coaches. If coaches are struggling with it, I tell the kids all the time that,
00:32:15
Speaker
Look, your coaches are dealing with things. They're struggling with things that they have to hide at practice. And they'll be at practice. I've been there. I know coaches who have been going through major things that I've coached with and I've known at practice, they're dealing with something at home right now.
00:32:30
Speaker
that is serious and these kids don't understand it and they have to put it off and go home. And so as adults, we're not immune to this stuff either. And we need to be, you know, have enough courage to admit it and to go get, you know, help o ourselves. So, you know, what I would say to these kids is you, if your eyes are up and you're really a teammate, you'll understand that you're going to have teammates that are struggling with things in all sorts of different capacities. And it doesn't matter what it is, whatever that thing is,
00:32:59
Speaker
Your job should be to have your teammate be as close to 100% in their life and on their on the field as possible. And your job as a teammate is to help them in that way. And so if if mental health is a potential or or or you see it possibly affecting a teammate of yours,
00:33:15
Speaker
to go up and just say, how are you? And let's talk. And you seem different. Something seems off. i' Maybe I'm wrong, but if you're struggling with something, let's talk about it. And how can I help and be in there for them? Just, just them knowing you're there for them.
00:33:28
Speaker
Or if they did say they had a problem, you going up like LeBron did and putting your arm around them and say, hey you know, you can contact me anytime. And, and, and Come talk to me anytime or call me anytime and I'm here for you. um That's what a real teammate does. And, yeah um you know, it's probably why Kevin Love continued to do very well. and And that team that he was on, it sounds like with the leadership of LeBron at pretty young age at the time, was so good and won a championship because they clearly had teammates who cared about each other.
00:34:01
Speaker
ah So important. So important. And so let's end with this, Dustin. Kevin's story doesn't end with a panic attack. It ended with growth. It ended with freedom. It ended with peace. It ended with championships, all because he had...
00:34:16
Speaker
the courage to say, I'm, I'm struggling. And, and most importantly, you know, he's with the jazz now, not just, yeah but you know, but all this there at least for today, it's day to day.
00:34:29
Speaker
i hope they keep him. Yeah, me too. He's a, he's a great story. Listen to this last little, little bit, this might give someone inspiration who's been listening to this, who has a child who needs help or they themselves need help.
00:34:43
Speaker
Um, listen what he says to kind of sum up here. Here's the last clip from him.
00:34:51
Speaker
I've now come to a point where I just kind of lay all my cards out on the table and say, this is what you get. And having that freedom of mind is something that I've never really had. It's actually given me peace. And sometimes things get worse in order to to get better. Sometimes there is a rock bottom, but I know that you know people reaching out for help or talking to someone, it it it does really work. And for so long, I put that off thinking I didn't need it because that was my my playbook when I was young is to suppress it and you know be a man
00:35:26
Speaker
I think the masculinity thing is ah is a, you know, kind of misleading in a lot of ways, because when that's ingrained in your mind in the early age, you you feel that way throughout.
00:35:37
Speaker
You know, I wish I would have had the presence of mind earlier on to face these things, but I think everybody has their moment, their aha moment or that moment where, you know, they're able to to come forward with these types of things.
00:35:51
Speaker
Just ah great stuff. One phrase. having that freedom of mind by talking to other people. And I just think about how many athletes are trying to carry something heavy right now, anxiety, depression, loneliness, fear, shame, and maybe the freedom they're looking for can start with just one honest conversation with a parent, with a coach, with a teammate.
00:36:17
Speaker
From the article, he said, everyone is going through something that we can't see. Everyone is going through something that we can't see. And so Kevin Love didn't become weak when he admitted he was struggling.
Conclusion: Mental Health's Importance
00:36:33
Speaker
He became courageous.
00:36:35
Speaker
The stigma around mental health survives ah when people stay silent. It loses power when someone is honest. And so if you're listening today and carrying something heavy,
00:36:49
Speaker
Don't believe the lie that you have to carry it alone. Real strength isn't pretending you're okay. That's not real masculinity. That's not being a man. Real strength is having the courage to ask for help when you're not doing okay. And and maybe the strongest thing a man can say is not, I've got this, but maybe i can use some help.
00:37:10
Speaker
And so... Dustin, I know it's something that both of us feel very strongly about. It's the roots of this program, and I just felt it was good to take a step back during this month.
00:37:23
Speaker
which is dedicated to bringing awareness to this issue, particularly this issue of telling young people, young men particularly, i know it happens to young women as well, and there's things that are very applicable here, but be a man, toughen up, you know, suppress it.
00:37:41
Speaker
These ideas just have to die if we want... if we want the stigma around mental health to die. And so I just wanted to give you the last word here. What would you say to our listeners regarding this topic? Anything else on your mind?
00:37:55
Speaker
No, maybe just what I just said. Everybody, i think everybody is, you're you're lucky if you haven't had to deal with it personally, either your own self or somebody really, really close to you.
00:38:07
Speaker
If you have dealt with it personally or with somebody very, very close to you, you really can understand that everything you just said, that it's not something that needs to be suppressed and it's not a weakness, but it is an issue that needs to be addressed just like you would a, you know, a pulled hamstring or something. But it's, it's deeper and more important, I think with the mental health thing, because everybody's mental health should be, should be an A plus, right? You shouldn't be operating at a C minus mentally and emotionally. Um,
00:38:37
Speaker
you you can limp with ah an ankle and still be happy and have a good life. But struggling with mental health, it's hard to have a happy life. So we have to be more sympathetic, empathetic to people, and we need to be more open as people, us in general, us listening, talking, that if we're fill with so dealing with something,
00:38:54
Speaker
that we we we deal with it and we don't hide it. and Everybody, not just athletes, not just young people, not just women, not just like everybody, including all those that just mentioned. And in our case, Chad, even middle-aged and older men, like it's it's a something that we've been brought up, raised to think differently and how you handle stuff like this. And um I don't think you're ah so you're soft or a sissy or anything. If you say, hey, my heart's jumping out of my chest and I can't breathe. like what's What's weak about that? like that's You're having a something serious happen to your body.
00:39:30
Speaker
um I can't sleep. I'm sad all the time. I'm i'm i'm angry. okay, that's legit. Like that happens. That's, that is a thing that happens and it's, let's get help. And there's things we can do and medication and counseling and music and books and podcasts and things we can do to help you. Let's get you going on a diet of these things. And, but we've got to be willing to talk about it because the secret killer of this thing is that it's silent.
00:39:55
Speaker
yeah You can't see it, right? It hides. And until sometimes it's too late and people give up and, We don't want that. And that's why we're out doing what we're doing is trying to hopefully, like Kevin Love, help one kid or one adult get through something. And then all the stuff we're doing with, especially for athletes, I think when when we die, we can say, well, maybe it was worth it. you know So we just got to keep at it and everybody's got to be involved in this fight because I don't think it's just, I don't think it's going to go in away anytime soon, but we have to fight it.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I would just add that ah to everything you said, one person having the courage gives other people courage. One person having the courage to say, hey, I'm struggling.
00:40:42
Speaker
And you look across and you go, wow, okay, if they could get help, I could get help. And one of the ways is we we eliminate that stigma is having the courage that Kevin Love had. so yeah Well, thanks, Dustin. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. Keep your eyes up Look for people who are struggling and do the work to help them if they are.
00:41:11
Speaker
Thank you for joining the Especially for Athletes podcast. To learn more about Especially for Athletes organization, get a copy of our book, The Sportlight, or to bring our program to your team, school, business, or organization, visit us at especiallyforathletes.org.