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A flame from my hearth to yours - Ep 2
376 Plays3 years ago
It's time for another journey into the past and this month Matilda will be chatting with Ashleigh Airey all about the development of candles. When were the earliest candles? What materials are candles made from and how do they affect our environment? How much have candles changed over time? Listen in to this second episode to find out the answers and more!
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- Ashleigh Airey
- info@ashwoodcandles.co.uk
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- twitter: @AshWoodCandles
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- Email: matilda@thearchaeologiststeacup.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You're listening to Tea Break Time Travel, where every month we look at a different archaeological object and take you on a journey into their past.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hi, and welcome to episode two of Tea Break
Meet Ashley Airy: Archaeologist and Candle Maker
00:00:23
Speaker
Time Travel. I'm your host, Matilda Z. Precht, and today I am savouring a fruity number, a strawberry and kimmy fruit tea. Joining me on my tea break today is Ashley Airy, archaeologist and owner of Ashwood Candles. What are you drinking today, Ash? I have a bit of a confession for you. I don't drink tea. I know.
00:00:49
Speaker
It's such an awkward thing. Every single time I've gone to someone's house I'm so sorry I don't drink tea or coffee and they don't know what to do. No coffee either! I know, I know.
Beverage Preferences and Social Dynamics
00:01:00
Speaker
But is there a reason? Like is it just, because there's so many different places, I'm sorry by the way, no judgement at all for people who don't drink tea. It's fine, it's fine, everyone has choices.
00:01:14
Speaker
But just because I'm thinking of something different, today I'm drinking strawberry and kiwi fruit tea. It's more like a hot juice, really, than anything else. Is it all teas or is it hot? Yeah, it's pretty much all hot beverages. I feel like I'm a toddler still. I can't quite regulate my own body temperature. So if I drink something that's warm, I just get too hot. Interesting. I think I'm going to deal with it. Yeah, I really want to deal with it. What about an iced tea?
00:01:42
Speaker
ice tea. I could do some ice tea. It has to have a lot of sugar in it though. I have a bit of a sugar fiend. But yeah, tea, teas are no go for me, unfortunately, which is always really difficult when you're traveling in the Highlands because everyone wants to offer you tea. And they go, Okay, well, what about coffee? And you go,
00:02:00
Speaker
Oh no, no coffee, thank you. And that happened, you know, when I first met my partner's family and eventually I ended up having a bit of vodka because I just thought, well, what else is coming? Tea, coffee, vodka? Yeah, it pretty much was tea, coffee, milk, juice, water. Well, she doesn't like water, he's granny, so that was the no-go. If I said water, it was just absolutely no.
00:02:25
Speaker
So yeah, eventually vodka came up and I was like, I need to see if because it's going to get stronger.
Journey from Newcastle to Glasgow and Archaeology Career
00:02:31
Speaker
So it's very nice. And I assume cold vodka, not hot vodka. That wouldn't accept, right? If they were vodka, then they warm it up for you and do it like a hot honey. Yeah. Was it like a biscuit or something? Yeah, it wouldn't have been nice. Yeah. Oh gosh. Interesting. I do have a feeling because for example, I never used to like just black tea, or if I did, then I'd have it like with a lot of sugar or something. And then
00:02:54
Speaker
whenever you go indeed traveling or anything and everyone always has like black tea is the sort of standard and then in the UK they also give it to you with milk which I never drank mine with milk and I was always like sorry I don't know but actually recently I've tried it with milk and I really like it now so now I always have every morning some black tea with milk which yeah part of me is going oh god and then the British the British ancestry of me is going oh well done well done well done
00:03:18
Speaker
I think I should be excited for something, not drinking tea in Britain, I think it's not great. There is a great, I can't remember what it is, it's some like little cartoon, I had it for ages, it's my like cover on Facebook or something, which is like had a key in the UK. Do you want a cup of tea? No. Yeah, that's me, absolute chaos in a bundle. All the great, it's like the 99 British problems thing, that Twitter account, and one of them's like,
00:03:45
Speaker
Do you drink tea? I'm sorry, I don't drink tea. I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave. Yeah, I'm always worried in case that does actually happen to me. So you're basically the UK, whereabouts are you coming from at the moment as you speak? Where are you? I'm just afraid of Glasgow at the moment.
00:04:03
Speaker
And you're also from there originally? No, I'm from Newcastle, the north of England originally, and I moved to Glasgow about a decade ago now, so probably like a little bit, probably like nine years, yeah, for university, and then I just stayed here, just another left.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, well, as someone born in Scotland, I can say I can understand why. And so at uni you studied archaeology? Yeah, I did a joint degree, so I did archaeology and history, and then I stayed at Glasgow Uni for my masters as well, which I did in material culture and artefact studies. And yeah, I just stayed and continued on.
00:04:43
Speaker
Fair enough. Fair enough. But then I did family enough. I also did material well. My master's was yeah, archaeological science, but material cultural studies like as the aspect of it with that kind of thing. What was your out of curiosity? What was your final thesis topic?
00:04:57
Speaker
Mine was on the pottery in Iona. So medieval pottery of Iona, yeah. And I also did independent research. So it was split in a different way. So you could do an independent research project and you could do like an internship as well. So I went to a commercial unit for that. And then you did a bit of a thesis as well on whatever you fancy. Mine was Iona.
00:05:21
Speaker
Okay, cool. Out of curiosity, you just said you do commercial stuff as well. I know that, I mean, I really love doing the artifact studies
Birth of Ashwood Candles and Mental Health
00:05:29
Speaker
in the map, because I have to say I like fieldwork. I'm happy to do it every so often. But I'm definitely one of those people who much prefer to be in the nice, dry, warm lab, post the exhibition. Are you similar? Or did you like the do you like the fieldwork aspect?
00:05:43
Speaker
Well, no, I was a commercial archaeologist. I was a supervisor for three years. So I was a project archaeologist and then I went on to be a supervisor in Scotland. So yeah, I liked field work a lot. But I also did like the lab work and fines work as well. Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:01
Speaker
I don't know, maybe I'm just too, it's sort of whenever anyone, but you know, so many of our colleagues love field work, right? I mean, you just said you really like field work as well, so I always think I'm not stealing, you know, people's... I don't necessarily like...
00:06:16
Speaker
need to spend my whole life getting up at 5am to go out into a buddy field. So no, definitely not. You don't have to, you don't have to at all. Like if there's another option, I'm sure a lot of people would take it. But I think that's the best thing about archaeology is that there's so many different aspects of it that you can go into. Yes. That it's, it's quite a lot of, there's a lot of free reign in it. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm not saying by the way, it's any potential future employers listening in. I'm not saying I don't like this. I do, do feel like that. But you know,
00:06:46
Speaker
I'll do the PostEx stuff. Okay, so you studied archaeology, continued then doing commercial archaeology. How did the candles start? So that started when the pandemic started, really.
Candles Reflecting Archaeological Sites
00:06:59
Speaker
I had a real difficulty with my mental health.
00:07:04
Speaker
during that time, that period, and there was a lot of stuff going on in my personal life as well. And my employers at the time were really understanding about it. And I felt like I couldn't continue in commercial. I couldn't be away from my family for too long, which was the best decision in the end.
00:07:20
Speaker
And I needed something to kind of channel my anxiety into. And I was, if someone suggested candles and I'd always wanted to make them. And I thought, gosh, why not? Might as well. So I tried and I did it. And then, you know, it took a lot of work to try and get to where we are now. And it's a whole new skill. So yeah, it just started with the pandemic. And, and I think that's, that's the story of a lot of candle makers, actually. So the Scott and the pandemic. Yes.
00:07:47
Speaker
So that's how it's all changed and I thought well I want to visit all these sites but I can't because I'm stuck in my house and you know there's a big bad virus out there so why don't I try and make sense that fit the sites I've been to and that I love and try and sell them to everyone else so they can experience it.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's so cool how you managed to, we'll talk about that a bit more in a sec. I'm just thinking I've got my oculogist desk candle next to me. And I mean, the other ones as well, which one do I have upstairs now? I can't remember. I switched them around occasionally. But it is so cool how you managed to get all those scents, you know, they work so well. And some of them are almost, you smell them and you're like, it's not, I have to admit some of them I smell and I'm like, I wouldn't necessarily use this as like a
00:08:32
Speaker
a candle to make my room smell nice, but when I smell it, I do smell the sights. It gives you the feeling like it's sort of a different kind of smell, if that makes sense. Yeah, for me, I really like earthy smells. I think that's my go-to. I really like herbal and woods, and that's what I was trying to use. And I think that's probably the scent that would have been quite prevalent in history and prehistory too.
00:08:57
Speaker
And usually a lot of my sites that I choose are prehistoric sites. And I'm just drawn to that. I need to sort of move away from it. I think I might have overdone them a bit. But I do love them. Well, no, currently I have Brodga and Stonehenge right in front of me.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah. I was adding up the Stonehenge one, I might have to order that on my next time over. Yeah, well, it's different from the one in the British Museum, which is great. Yeah, this one is more reflective of its Neolithic and Bronze Age, while the scent that's in the British Museum is reflective of its whole period. And from the Mesolithic Timber Hall, so that's the kind of oak and hazelnuts. And then until the big icon that it is today, that's kind of what they wanted. So that's why I tried to produce
00:09:45
Speaker
Very cool. Oh, that must be so exciting when they asked you. For those who are wondering what we're talking about, by the way, we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording, but people who don't know, we'll maybe you what to say, Ash. Yeah, no, we are supplied to the British Museum for the World of Stonehenge exhibition, which has been great. Yeah, so fancy. So cool. It must be so exciting. Yeah, I'm looking forward to going and seeing the exhibit at some point when I can get down there.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah, it's fantastic. So prehistory is always where you would sort of focus on like, for example, if you could travel back in time, or I guess feel forward in time, but you know, I'm assuming as my archaeologist will probably want to go back. Where would you go? Like what time period or where and why?
The Fascination with Archaeology's Unknowns
00:10:31
Speaker
You know, I get this, people ask me this all the time. I think it's just like that question that people ask archaeologists. When did you decide you wanted to create buildings? Yes! Someone was talking to me for ages about like, oh, this is really nice, didn't it? And she was describing all these really lovely buildings in this town, and I didn't want to interrupt her and be like, you know, that's architecture. I'm so sorry, but it's not the same thing. Anyway, sorry, yes.
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, I've thought about this a lot. And I think it would have to be somewhere where I was fairly equal, but in society, I think it would be absolutely suck to go back in time and then end up not being as equal in society, even as even though it's unequal today. But I'm not saying if I could go in like a bubble and watch, right? Yes, yes. You know,
00:11:19
Speaker
be accused of being a witch or something like that. Then I think I'd probably have to go, I'd love to go back to the Mesolithic. I'd love to see Doggerland, Even, or Starcar, you know, those sites that you think about today and you think, wow. And I'd love to see how they had their hair, how they spoke, what their names were, stuff like that. I think I'd love to go to the Mesolithic. Either that, or I'd go back to Iron Age Britain and maybe go see Boudica, maybe have a hand. Yeah. Oh, that was so cool.
00:11:47
Speaker
It is funny how they're so, you sort of, they're always lumped together in like sort of popular literature and stuff as like prehistory or like the Stone Age, but then yeah, like the Mesolithic and the Neolithic are so different. It's very, yeah, very different. Yeah, like I have to say the Mesolithic to me is almost too distant, if that makes sense, like I don't know, it's sort of, which is really intriguing, but then I guess we, it's the sort of, yeah, I don't know, it's sort of, it's a weird time period for me, I don't know why.
00:12:16
Speaker
It is a strange, I think it's because we don't know a lot about it. I mean, we know, like, lithics scatters, we know, maybe a bit of settlement patterns and stuff, but we don't know a lot. Like, we don't know their language, or what their language was, or how they interacted as groups, their structures, you know, you can kind of start to understand that in a neolithic because you have farming and, and that change and people are settling down and
00:12:42
Speaker
in the landscape. In the Mesolithic you've got people moving around a lot and I think we don't quite understand fully the extent of how much they travelled and how much that was part of their everyday life cycles as well.
00:12:59
Speaker
So it's really interesting. I always find it fascinating. I'd love to go back and just see what it was like. Yeah. Although it's also that thing. Some of us asked me this the other day, like, oh, would you try and travel if you could? And actually part of me was like, hell, yes. But then part of me was like, actually, I don't know. Because one of the things that I really love about archaeology is that it is kind of so unknown, really, like what exactly happened.
00:13:24
Speaker
there's a lot of questions. And I think you'd sort of, it would be kind of rubbish, wouldn't it? When if you go, Oh, well, actually, I thought was actually a bit cooler than what was real. Yeah. Great. I thought it was like match the nickel power. It's just a guy doesn't like guy again. Oh, my God.
00:13:50
Speaker
That would be really, really upsetting. But yeah, I think I think you're right. There is something quite distant about the Mesolithic and even the Paleolithic in Europe. I think it feels very, very, it is very, very far away. Yeah, right. And what was I reading the other day? Oh, that Kindred, you know, the book. Oh, yeah, that whole book. And I've started reading. I've got to read that.
00:14:10
Speaker
Excellent work, Becky, by the way, if you're listening. I doubt she's listening to this, but you never know. It's so good. I really like it. And it is funny, like she was saying, oh, you know, if you think about like the whole of human time span, that we've been a lot, you know, millions of years, we've been alive. And yeah, the last couple of thousand, you know, are actually then just a small blip, you know, little, what's the word? I'm saying blick because that's German, but I can't remember what it is.
00:14:37
Speaker
It's like a snapshot of time. Oh yes, thank you. I think this month's going to be here. I haven't been living here too long. But yes, like you say, even the Mesolithic, which is relatively recent in terms of human history compared to the Paleolithic and even before then, and previous human species.
00:14:59
Speaker
Anyway, I would be mad, it would be mad.
Candles in Ancient Cultures
00:15:04
Speaker
So thank you very much anyway for joining me on Mighty Broke today and we are here to look at a particular object type and most of you have probably guessed what the object is before we go into detail. Let's first journey back, speaking of time travel, nearly 3,300 years to ancient Egypt and specifically the city of Amana, although back then it was known as Akatatan.
00:15:24
Speaker
It was a hot day, but the night is now drawing in. It's finally getting cooler. The shadows from the surrounding cliffs are lengthening over the tops of the whitewashed mudbrick buildings. A breeze wafts the scent of the Nile across the street towards you, and you shiver as you enter your house. It's dark inside, so your fingers fumble in the darkness, and after a few moments there's a faint hiss of ignition, and a soft golden glow illuminates the room. The light comes from a flickering flame burning through a wick made from twisted reeds encased in tap. Of course, this is a candle.
00:15:54
Speaker
And the earliest written evidence of what we would consider as modern candles comes from this site, and that's what we're looking at today. So we'll get into the details of the history of these objects soon, but first, I thought it might be fun to look at the most asked questions on the internet about candles, courtesy of Google search and autofill.
Health and Environmental Considerations of Candles
00:16:12
Speaker
So I basically just typed in our candles and what are candles and saw what came up. And so the first question is, are candles bad for you? What would you say to this, Ash?
00:16:22
Speaker
Oh gosh, you know, you've hit on some really big topics in candle making. It's almost accidentally, but I think candles, I mean, you're burning them, right?
00:16:33
Speaker
So you're going to be releasing toxins and potentially carbon into, well, definitely carbon into the atmosphere. So I think it's really candles when you're looking at them and if you're a perch sound, if you're a maker, you have to really be, have one key thing in mind and that is how moderation and sustainability.
00:16:53
Speaker
For example, you kind of need to look at three things. And this is why I decided to break it down into. Okay. You need to look at the type of wax you're using, the type of wick, and the materials that the candle maker's using to make the candle. So it could be, it's a Pella candle, or it could be tins and glass.
00:17:11
Speaker
Okay. Because essentially what's going to happen is if you can get something from your local shop, right? Which is usually made out of paraffin. Well, when paraffin burns, it can contain a number of carcinogenics. And so it is, it's unsustainable because it's a by-product of crude oil. Okay.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah, so it's going to release toxins anyway, the type of fragrance that you're using as well, that can release toxins into the environment. So it has to be moderation. I think that's pretty much the answer to that, if they're bad for you or not. They're neither good nor bad for you, they're just candles. You know, you have to decide how to use them and when you're going to use them. And I guess that sort of partly answers the second one that came up as well, which was are candles bad for the environment?
00:18:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I think it kind of does actually. Candles can be okay, they can say anything can be bad for the environment. I was about to say, I mean, everything we do nowadays technically is bad for the environment. Yeah, it's like it's like kind of deciding what car you should drive, you should go electric, diesel or petrol.
00:18:18
Speaker
It's kind of the same for candles in very layman's terms. So for me, making candles, I wanted to do it in the best way I possibly could. I wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to impact the environment too much. So I use soy wax. It's a plant-based wax. It's biodegradable. And I make sure that I choose non-GMO.
00:18:42
Speaker
Sorry wax. Probably the best wax that you could get to make a candle out of is beeswax, but you'd have to get it that's ethically sourced. Because soy and beeswax are clean burning, they're not going to give you the same issues that paraffin.
00:19:01
Speaker
has. Well, you know, if you burn it, it's going to release toxins. So yeah, it can be bad for the environment. But again, it's all about moderation and what you're giving back to that environment too.
Components and Uses of Candles
00:19:14
Speaker
So you just mentioned a couple of different materials because the next question was what are candles made from? So I guess the paraffin would be the commercial ones and then there was soy, beeswax are there. What are the wicks made from generally?
00:19:25
Speaker
They can be made from hemp or cotton. They can also have a kind of layering of them of wax, which could be paraffin. So you have to be careful about what wax you're actually going to choose. They can release certain wicks or self-trimming. So modern wicks are self-trimming or self-consuming, which just means that when you burn them, they sort of start to limp and bend over and that'll be consumed by the flame.
00:19:53
Speaker
So they came about later on in industrialisation, you kind of got those self-trimming wicks. You can also get wood wicks as well. And so there's a lot of questions about the materials that you use and you really need to look into it as a candlemaker to make sure that you are making the best decisions for the environment.
00:20:11
Speaker
and also giving back to that environment. So, you know, trying to use biodegradable materials in your packaging, glass and tins, which can be reused or recycled. And obviously tins can be, there's a bit of a debate about tins because a lot of metal mining and things. So there's a huge question in candle making about what's right and what's not. And I think it's up to the candle maker and it's up to the buyer, the consumer, to make these decisions and to really look into it.
00:20:38
Speaker
Yeah. So the final question, I'll finish these ones up and then we can get to our questions, of the Google search thing, was what are candles used for? And I guess, yeah, anything really. What would you say? Oh, well, I think nowadays in modern times, candles are used as a decorative item a lot of the time. You get a lot of
00:20:58
Speaker
kind of aesthetic candles, which can be like a figure of a lady or a man, sculpted candles, pillar candles, or you can get the ones like we do, which, you know, show you a different side of candle making, a kind of theme, I suppose. But candles, essentially, in basic terms, are made for illumination. Yeah. I'm really curious what that question was about. I got this Google search.
00:21:29
Speaker
Unless it was someone who really didn't know what a candle was. Maybe, maybe. Maybe they wanted it for some ritual purpose, I'm not sure really. Yeah, there's a lot of ritual candles that you can get out there that are made specifically for each element and in rituals and in worship as well. So there's lots of different answers to that question.
00:21:53
Speaker
If we move on now and sort of talk about kind of candles in the past and everything, I think, because when I was originally looking into candles to make the videos, I was looking and there was a lot of, because the oil lamps kind of came earlier, because I guess they were also for illumination and everything, but actually the first, so apparently there is indeed this evidence of candles in Amana in like 3,300 years ago.
00:22:17
Speaker
But I had found that the earliest written evidence was also from the Romans in 500 BC, that they had these kind of tallow, so rendered animal fat candles with a wick in them. Because I guess that is different if you have a solid thing rather than the liquid, then it makes a bit of a difference in how you can illuminate them. So I'm not sure like, yeah, how solid I did find the reference, someone was very nice to send me the reference for the Egyptian candles. But I still am not sure whether it was solid.
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah, I find it difficult to find the reference for that candle. I couldn't find any kind of archaeological evidence to say that the Egyptians had candles and many candle sites who that go on about the history of candles and historians talk about it, but I cannot find a reference or even an artifact. Well, this is the thing. So I found references to them, but then it seemed to more imply that they were still something that was dipped in oil and then burnt.
00:23:16
Speaker
rather good. Yeah, more like a rush light, which is kind of like a reed that you dip in oil and it would soak up the oil and then you'd light it. Yeah, the Egyptian one was interesting but in antiquity you get right about the Romans. I had that around, some people said it was around 100 BCE, some people said it was 500 BCE, the one that I
00:23:38
Speaker
seem to think is 500 BCE and they did have that oil lamps and they were rolling tallow, like you said. But you also have the early Greeks doing something similar with them. They have these cakes called moon cakes, which are meant to be lit for the goddess Artemis during ceremonies and worship, essentially. And then they put a candle on that cake and light it. And a lot of people are saying that this is where the first kind of birthday cake
00:24:08
Speaker
candle comes in. It is quite interesting but there are oil lamps as well that were used for Saturnalia in Roman times and in the Greek so it seems like people are using candles a lot but obviously they don't survive in the archaeological record.
00:24:27
Speaker
This is the problem, right? Like it was, so I don't know if you, do you know Terry Pratchett? I'm slightly obsessed with these books. I've only read going postal. Oh, that's a great one though. That's the one I started with, I think. But there's, okay, spoiler alert for anyone listening and for you, so apologies in advance, but basically there's
00:24:44
Speaker
There's this one where they're trying to solve murder because, well, no, it's not even murder, but attempted murder or whatever, and Lord Bertunari, the patrician, is getting poisoned, and they don't know what it is, and they're trying all these different things, and they're trying to work out what is possibly poisoning him, because he seems better during the day, but then in the morning again, he's all bad again, and they're trying to work out what it is.
00:25:04
Speaker
But of course, because they're burned down, they don't, they're gone, you know, the evidence is gone by the time it goes. And it made me think like, oh God, yeah, that's so true of so many consumable things in the past as well, right? Like, like candles. So I mean, it's, yeah, how, how, how do we see that actually in the archaeological record?
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's so difficult. It's very difficult. And the only thing you can really look at are the artifacts that relate to candle making or candle use. You know, so it could be a dish, you know, when you have look at oil lamps, oil lamps have the little vessel that you use to cut the oil in, but they don't obviously have the piece of cotton or woven fabric that you have that runs out of the oil lamp.
00:25:48
Speaker
that's consumed and used and so is the oil and only maybe remains of the oil are left. So it's the same thing for candles if you try and that's the only thing that can possibly happen. The only really physical evidence, archaeological evidence that we have for candles are being used in prehistory in China.
00:26:05
Speaker
in 200 BCE. Yes. Yes. And that's in Quinchi Hang's tomb, which is the terracotta army tomb. Yes. That must have been such a cool find. Can you imagine? I know. I know. So jealous.
00:26:19
Speaker
I know. And it seems like the candles that were found in there, I read a few different articles about it. Now one of them, I don't know how real this is, but they were made from whale fat, the candles. So that is true. But they said that when they first opened the tomb, there was still illumination going on.
00:26:42
Speaker
Which sounds fantastical, doesn't it? I wish my candles lasted that long. I think I would be, I'd be out of the door, I wouldn't have to keep using them over and over again. Right, yeah, the video's been sustainable. Really? God, it hit the jackpot.
00:27:00
Speaker
And, you know, you can look later on, the historian Sima Qian, he talks about this tomb and he tells you that lamps were filled with whale oil so that they might have the longest possible burn time, which is quite interesting. But then again, he's talking about lamps rather than candles themselves. But there were artifacts found in the tomb that had kind of like a picket, which is the place where you put a pillar candle on top, we'd secure it, press it down onto the
00:27:30
Speaker
So they did have, the hollows inside of them did have whale wax, we'll call it, in them. So that's the first archaeological evidence that we actually have of candles. But it's still pretty impressive because that was what, 200 BC. So I mean, still just over 2000 years ago, which is kind of, yeah, amazing to think that, I mean, has the
00:27:56
Speaker
The design, I guess, hasn't really changed that much. I mean, like you say, they have the sort of decorative ones now as well, where you have like sculpted forms and stuff. But in general, considering how much a lot of things have changed even in the last hundred years or, you know, since the Industrial Revolution, I mean, actually candles themselves are still pretty similar to in prehistory then.
00:28:16
Speaker
It seems like, yeah, they're very similar. I mean, you still have to have a vessel, so that could be nowadays, it could be glass with tin, even ceramic sometimes. People in prehistory seem to have used ceramic, so they don't change that much. I think their function changes over time though, and maybe what the candle means.
00:28:34
Speaker
you know, it could just be an illumination or it could be conspicuous consumption, you know, as in this tomb here. The massive artifacts I found in that tomb tell you a lot about the Emperor, that he is very much wealthy and that he has a lot of stuff and he has a lot of candles and a lot of art here and a lot of horses and things. So he's using it a lot and candles will have been used frequently during that period. It seems like it anyway.
00:29:01
Speaker
I think the intention and the use of candles changes over time rather than the shape of them. Yeah,
Study of Everyday Objects in Archaeology
00:29:08
Speaker
no that's fair enough. I guess the materials as well because originally it would have been this tallow and I had seen somewhere that beeswax was used but it was very expensive so actually it was only used by indeed wealthy people or for churches or something like that and then now you have soy you mentioned as well.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah, soy gets introduced much later, but yeah, the change comes in. So basically you have people using things like rush lights, whale fat. It's often animal fat. The tallow that you're talking about, Romans start using tallow and processed animal fat to create these candles. But you also get people boiling cinnamon in India for temple candles to make a wax. Yeah.
00:29:53
Speaker
And interestingly enough, there's a fish that they call a candle fish that's used a lot in indigenous tribes in North America, which is literally dry this fish out, pop it on a stick and light it and it will burn for a long time because of the oil inside this fish.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yeah, so there's quite a lot of ways people have used illumination or have tried to create illumination in different means and things like that. In the Middle Ages, though, you do get the tallow being used quite often. And then that's often attributed to the decline of the Roman Empire. So you don't have oil, olive oil, as coming into Europe as often as it should or did.
00:30:40
Speaker
So that means that you get a rise in processed animal fat candles, which tallow but tallow smells really bad. I was just thinking, I mean, gosh, I did some experiments where, because I do a lot of experimental archaeology and I needed to use sealskin for something and
00:30:58
Speaker
I mean, luckily, if you can call it luckily, so I was in contact with a seal sanctuary in the north of the Netherlands, and they had had one of their animals were unfortunately died of natural causes. And they said, Oh, you know, if you need any materials from them, like you're welcome to take them for, you know, scientific purposes. So I went and I got skins and bones and all sorts of things. And I had to scrape the skin. So scrape the fat off the skin in order to, you know, sort of process it. And oh, my
00:31:23
Speaker
God, the smell. And then I was cooking, not cooking, because I wasn't planning to eat it. But like, basically, I had to, I was trying to boil it down to get the meat out so that I could just have it as kind of solid fat, because I was giving that to another friend who was doing experiments with residue analysis and looking at whether you can see fat on the inside of pots and stuff. And yeah, the smell like, oh, and yeah, so just the imagine imagining the candle, a candle made from that. Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
It was apparently awful because they're made from sheep and cows, predominantly the fat. Actually, you know, strangely enough in the 13th century, in the medieval period, candles, the production of tallow candles was banned from cities because it smelled so bad. In many European cities, it was banned. They didn't have the scented candles, you know, eucalyptus and lavender.
00:32:18
Speaker
No, don't have that at all. Very, very difficult. And imagine having that in your house as well, you know. So that's why a lot of the time when you're using tallow or even beeswax like you've heard about before, it's usually in churches that people seem to use candles like that.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah, especially if you have big groups of people inside and then you don't want to spend any good enough. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Interesting. I'm curious. So, I mean, we talked briefly about the fact that the original candles found in China, so the emperor Qin Shi Huang, and the fact that, you know, it's seen as almost a sign of, oh, you can afford all these different candles and everything. But I guess when you think of archeological objects, like if, for example, you think of that emperor's tomb, the first thing that springs to mind is that, oh, wow. And he had the coolest collection of candles, you know.
00:33:06
Speaker
There's some other objects that are weirdly given priority. And I guess that sort of happens a lot in archaeology. I guess going back from the start that you have, you know, all the kind of, shall we say, the sexy objects are kind of given more importance and then things like candles or other, almost the forgotten parts, also other consumer models, I suppose, are left behind. But I mean, why, as a candle person yourself, I mean, why would you say it's important to look at these more forgotten objects?
00:33:34
Speaker
Well, I think that every day, aren't they? As archaeologists, we don't look at the fantastic stuff every day. We look at the very normal bog standard objects, you know, pots and vessels and things that people would use day to day and day to day life. And I think candles are
00:33:55
Speaker
They tell you a lot about a society. So there is no evidence for this at all. But you'd think that during the Neolithic, if people are farming and they're farming crops, they might have used being able to farm something, not necessarily soy, but something that could help them illuminate. People search for illumination in human history since the very beginning. You know, there's many myths.
00:34:21
Speaker
about halves and how important the half is. A candle is just a small half really. It's brought in as a ceremonial thing, it's brought in to illuminate the darkness, to scare away the darkness. Candles are very very important in human history because
00:34:40
Speaker
But they just are. I mean, people use them all the time now. It's not a big leap to think that people would have used them in the past or used fire in some way to have a longer longevity of that fire, of that illumination. You know, people would have used candles for timing things as well. If people can build stuff
00:35:04
Speaker
that calculates solstice and winter solstice, then they can definitely make a candle that tells them when the daylight is dropping or when night is coming and how long that night has been around for. That's my theory anyway, but there's no actual archaeological evidence to support that theory yet. Unfortunately.
00:35:26
Speaker
I mean, that's the thing, right? I've noticed that so much with other things as well. For example, I've just recently had a baby and when you then are having to, for example, breastfeed and do all these different things, and then I was looking at some point, it came up a paper about neolithic clothing, for example, and I was looking at it going, that would be impossible to breastfeed it, like you wouldn't be able to. And it's so funny that when you think of
00:35:49
Speaker
Yes, for example, something like candles, you know, and it's like you say, you're always it's always assumed that they had some ritual purpose, or they were really fancy. And it's one of those, actually, you know, why couldn't they have just been used for the everyday? Like, why could things, little everyday issues that people have nowadays aren't new, necessarily?
00:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think we are detached from that sort of need for fire, because we have electricity, we have lights all the time, we have streetlights, you know? We are constantly illuminated in our world, especially if you live in the West. I mean, your TV illuminates a room. But back in prehistory, the light would have been really important. I mean, life didn't just stop because it got dark.
00:36:34
Speaker
I think because we don't have this evidence, even for things like brush lights or anything like that yet, then it's very difficult to know what people were doing. And therefore, as archaeologists, we always put it down to ritual.
00:36:49
Speaker
Which is never, it's not necessarily the right interpretation. I think it would be kind of potentially silly to assume that people weren't using fire in a different way other than the hearth, like a central sort of hearth or hearth that you get. That was just pretty much a prevalent thing throughout prehistory. I mean, a lot of hearths are dug.
00:37:15
Speaker
But you know, I think people would have moved around. And also think of the waste that you'd have if you had a torch. So if you had a piece of woven fibre, you've just spent all that time weaving some fibre. You're going to wrap it around a torch and light it on fire. I don't know about that.
00:37:31
Speaker
So that's my theory anyway. Yeah, no, no, I think it's a good point. And yeah, I mean, I guess, like you say, the problem is that it's one of those things that you don't necessarily have evidence for. And I mean, the problem with archaeology is it's a lot of hypothesis, but at the end of the day, you can't really, for example, publish anything or make big assumptions about things without being able to back yourself up. Oh, yeah, completely. And that's a legitimate thing. There's a reason why people aren't going around saying the Neolithic had candles.
00:38:01
Speaker
We are now. Everyone who's listening is like, oh yes, I heard it on the podcast. Maybe not candles in the way that we see them today, but some sort of form of light, I think transferable light would have been.
00:38:17
Speaker
pretty, I think, easy to make.
Connecting Through Candle Craftsmanship
00:38:20
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's, you know, that's, again, one of the reasons why I love archaeology is that you have, you know, it's all about trying to think, imagine yourself a little bit back there. I mean, that's why, you know, we're doing this time travel thing as well. Like, it's all about sort of pretending to time travel a bit, imagining yourself in a situation. And obviously, it's
00:38:36
Speaker
difficult because we're so wrapped up in our own modern time period and our own experiences. There's a lot of things that are not necessarily that different. We have to deal with darkness. It was the same darkness back then, like you say.
00:38:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And you only have to go to someone that's a little bit more remote to realize, oh my god, I can't see a thing. A torch would be really handy right now. And I think you're right. When you start to experience things more like with you when you had your baby and breastfeeding, you're looking at clothing, that just doesn't feel entirely correct. How on earth would you get your
00:39:15
Speaker
How is that going to happen? The same thing applies for many stuff, like that's practical thinking brain, which is a good thing to have an archaeology because you go, well, why would you do that when you could do this? It makes you think. Yeah, fun times, fun times. That's why we're here, right? That's why we're here.
00:39:37
Speaker
There's a lot, a lot we could say, I guess, about candles, but I did want to also talk a bit, so we did already introduce you a little bit in the first sort of section of this episode, but maybe, you know, we could go into a bit more detail. So we already mentioned Ashwood candles briefly and sort of how you got into it, but, and I mean, candles, for example, I know that you also do the wax melts. I mean, is there, was there anything in particular about candles that struck you with something rather than, I mean, you said that you had done pots, for example, as your thesis topic, where you never tempted to go in that direction.
00:40:06
Speaker
I was definitely. I think I always just want to make things. I think that's why I specialised in artefacts is the making process or something of creating something. It's good for the soul, one. But it also connects you back to people who have done it in the past. You know, candle making became a very big thing in the medieval period and it was much needed. And, you know, chandlers were, that's the name for a candle maker. Or sometimes they also made soaps.
00:40:35
Speaker
and cheeses and loads of different things actually. It's a very random assortment. It's a very weird set of skills. It was like I'm going to call myself a Chandler now. Yeah, a Chandler. So they need sauces, vinegar, soap and candles and cheese.
00:40:56
Speaker
Interesting. That was kind of... You don't want to get your ingredients mixed up, would you? No, oh my gosh, it's a bit off about this cheese. Yeah, it's just a big bar of soap. Yeah, it would be very difficult. But you know, that became a guild. And if it's a craft that people still use today, traditional craft is a really important thing to keep up. Mine is not as traditional as it could be. Definitely I buy my wicks in, I don't make them myself. I don't dip my candles because I don't make killer candles yet.
00:41:25
Speaker
I was about to say, is there something you would want to do? Do you walk kind of archaeologically authentic or whatever you would call it? I would absolutely love to do that. Yeah, I would love to kind of get into that and how they used to do it. Maybe not use tallow. You might be kicked out of your house I guess.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think my partner would be very happy with that. And I don't really fancy, you know, going through that whole process beforehand. But I would love to go in, you know, show people how traditional candles might have been made. I think that would be something really, really interested in. For me, though, I'm an artifact person, candles have a special part for me, because I always have a candle if I want to relax a candle, if I want to write a candle on, it's kind of a habit for me, they are
00:42:10
Speaker
And especially when you get a good scent, scented candles are a big thing now. What's your favorite scent? Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I definitely think it's my crannog candle. I'm kind of landlocked in Glasgow, so it's a driftwood and sea and rock salt. So it just makes me think of beaches and waters and bodies of water and stuff. Anyway, sorry, I interrupted you.
00:42:37
Speaker
But no, for the melts and stuff, I think it's a way for me to actually make artifacts. So I make a Venus of Willendorf as one of my wax melts, the Goestria Wife, and I do rock art ones too, so snap bars.
00:42:55
Speaker
pictures of different petroglyphs and different types of cup and ring marks from across Scotland and Europe. That's me connecting in a way to archaeology. Maybe I couldn't have done before when I was in commercial and really getting to know the maker of that artefact. I was sculpting a Venus the other day because I make the Venus itself and then I create it into a mould for the wax. Which material do you use to sculpt it?
00:43:23
Speaker
I mean, a clue, I wouldn't go for the whole stone. Yeah, I would try, but yeah, like a month or so. Yeah. But I think it's interesting when you make they're really easy to make and very natural. And so it made when I was and I researched the artifact that I make as well into candle or wax melt form. I love that. Yes. I love your little info, slips that come with everything.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah. And that's what I want people to experience with these candles. I want them to connect to the past in a way that maybe you can't because sometimes it's not as accessible to get to a museum or it's not accessible because it's, you know, not on display. So I want people to be able to handle these artifacts, even if it's in wax form and see the cracks and the crevices that I try and put in and hold that, that artifact in that hand. And for me, it's all about accessibility.
00:44:18
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's really, I have to say you're, I have a couple of Venus or Villendorf ones. And it's so hard because I don't have a big enough like wax melt thing, you know, you have to chop them up to fit the little wax melt. And I never want to chop them up because they're just so beautiful. I'll just leave them there for a while.
00:44:37
Speaker
I know, I know. I sort of sometimes take a bit of a relish though, just snapping her head off a little bit. Yeah, it's a good time. It's a good time. She's not going to be mad at you, you know?
00:44:51
Speaker
I like that you do indeed use archaeology as like the main inspiration because I think that, I don't know, it's a subject that I mean, this is why I'm doing what I'm doing as well. I think it's a subject that a lot of people don't really know much about. So it's really great. And that's why I really like that you do these little info, you know, papers with all of your objects. But do you get a lot of people who like get a lot of feedback from people who maybe didn't know about the archaeology but are interested in candles and then they come back to you with feedback about the archaeology or?
00:45:19
Speaker
A little bit, sometimes people are interested, but most of the time they say, why would you choose archaeology? That's such a strange thing. I think people get more interested and there's many people that sell wax melts, there's many people that sell candles. For me, when I started this business, I didn't want to let go of my archaeology.
00:45:39
Speaker
I didn't want to let go. I just can't let go of it. I was no longer in commercial. I wasn't out there doing it every day. I felt like I wasn't really connecting to that past. I feel like we have a story to tell. I think archaeology is a story. It's just different types of stories, different interpretations of the same story.
00:45:59
Speaker
And I think it's really important to try and tell people that story over and over and over again if they need to. Because they connect us, we're human. Even if we're in the very distant past.
00:46:14
Speaker
There's still, there's something about, for example, the Venus, Venus, the Venus figurines, especially I think Venus of Willendorf that people look at and go, no, gosh, she looks a lot like me, especially, you know, she looks a lot like me. And to see that type of body type, I've had people come up and fairs and go, why is there a naked lady on your top?
00:46:39
Speaker
She goes, why doesn't your store have a naked lady? Every store should have a naked lady. And then I go, well, this is the Venus of Wilndorpe. Have you heard about her? Do you know who she is? And they don't know, but I've seen her. Hold out your powerful presentation. Yeah. I mean, our market is literally just me talking about archaeology. And I'm like, do you want to kind of buy a candle as well?
00:47:09
Speaker
And people start to go, oh, that's actually quite interesting. And there's something that's imperfect about it. And in this society today where we value our bodies so highly and we put so much strain on ourselves to have the perfect type of body, I think connecting to the past where maybe it was a different way of thinking. Yeah.
00:47:31
Speaker
really does help. And I think when you interact with different sites as well, it starts to show you that the way that we do things now isn't maybe how we should be doing them. There is an alternative way. Yeah, especially if the way we're doing things is not necessarily working. And the reason for carrying on is, oh, but it's always been this way, you can then indeed pull down your PowerPoint site and say, actually,
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, no, exactly. And I think that's something that's really important to me with these candles. I want to give you an experience of visiting these sites. I try and really put you in the site and by the scent of the smells. And our scent is a really, really powerful feature that we have. We use our scents as memory. It's very much collective memory.
00:48:18
Speaker
I think a lot of people if you say what's your favourite memory, they'll probably add a scent in there too. What does that scent remind you of? They'll know immediately if they have a story that connects with it. So I think they're very important and I think they're a really good accessible way to reach out to people about archaeology.
00:48:37
Speaker
that isn't too complex, that doesn't require them to put a lot of time and effort into study. Yes, true. And that they can experience for the 30 hours that their candle's burning. 30 hours? Okay, good to know.
00:48:53
Speaker
I like as well like indeed that you mentioned scent I mean that's another thing we were talking earlier about the fact that candles are consumable so therefore they're not really left in the archaeological record and I mean scents are also something that you don't well although as an Arctic archaeologist digging up a midden that's been sitting in permafrost for a couple of thousand years like the presentation is very good including this month.
00:49:17
Speaker
I mean, sometimes you do get the smell of the past. It's not always kind of nice. Yeah, I don't use those scents. You would release that kind of, I'm not sure how well it would smell. But it is interesting indeed that the scent of the past is something that, you know, again, something like your candles. I mean, that's the closest we can get, I think, to that.
00:49:40
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And I think there's a bit of, you know, phenomenal... I don't think anyone can say that word. Phenomenology. You know, all that Ian Hodder stuff. He is pretty good at it. You know, you kind of go back in the past and you imagine, and it's not perfect, but I think that's the way archaeology is moving at the moment. We're moving away from the processional, we're going into that post-processional.
00:50:09
Speaker
where people are more engaging with the past in a different way, really understanding the past through a human experience. And I think that, for me, that's how I would like to see the past. That's how, if I ever had people on site, that's how I'd try and tell them and teach them how to see the past, you know? Yeah, you're digging this little tiny postal, but this postal was something bigger and it was important, you know, as much as it's like,
00:50:35
Speaker
truncated and pretty boring now. It was important to someone once upon a time and they put a lot of effort into digging that tiny post hole. I think we really need to see it as a more human experience and I think with the pandemic and everything we're losing. We've lost that sort of connection sometimes. I think we were so isolated for a very, very long time. A lot of people, we lost a lot of people
00:51:05
Speaker
And even now it's not as great as it should be, but we should connect to one another. And that's what I think, even if we look back into the past and connect with people in the past, that's what we should be doing. We should be connecting with one another. So that's my little thing about the candles. And that's why I try and I put everything into that. You know, I put it all into one candle.
00:51:27
Speaker
It's kind of like a candle. If I say a candle is like a little mini hearth that you move around, it's a flame from my hearth to your hearth. It's as cheesy as that sounds. That's lovely. That's so nice. I'm getting all emotional now. It's sweet. I think that's really nice. It's definitely a really nice sentiment, especially also about why archaeology is important, why candles are important. I think that's really nice. Thank you for that.
00:51:57
Speaker
So final little point, so because of course you are, as we've mentioned, a small business owner with Ashwood candles being good for business, what would you say is the biggest difficulty you face as a
Challenges and Successes of Ashwood Candles
00:52:08
Speaker
small business owner? And what's the most exciting thing that's happened with Ashwood candles?
00:52:12
Speaker
Oh, okay. The biggest difficulty is probably just balancing absolutely everything. I work every day, all day. And it's hard. It can be hard on your mental health. And I think the biggest takeaway I've had is to keep the faith, just keep going with it and believe in yourself. Imposter syndrome is rife, I think, in a lot of different ways.
00:52:36
Speaker
I think for everyone gets it, everyone gets imposter syndrome. We think, oh, I can't do this. I can't do this. And it can be very bleak sometimes when you're a small business, because you do put your whole self into it because it's your baby, you know, it's you. You're putting yourself out there and you're like, this is my product that I've made with my two hands. Do you like it? And some people go, no. And you go, oh, I'm crying.
00:53:02
Speaker
I suppose you don't need to like it, but you really want everyone to like it. So I think keeping at it, trusting the process is the most difficult thing. Trusting the process is the most difficult thing. I think that's just for every single person out there. It's something that they feel passionate about and they want to do it.
00:53:25
Speaker
But they're doubting themselves over and over and over again. And those little, what I call blurts, those little thoughts that pop into your head. You can't do this. This is impossible. Why are you doing this? You shouldn't be like this. Don't listen to them. Acknowledge them. Hopefully, thanks for that, but don't listen to them too much. They're a tiny truth with a tiny T and follow the big T, which is a real truth.
00:53:51
Speaker
I've done a lot of therapy, can you tell? And this is, I mean, I'm making notes here. This is excellent. Well, I think you're completely right. I mean, not just for small businesses, like you say, but for everything that you do. I think everyone has that, especially if you're trying to pursue something that you really care about. Yeah. You know, in any way, I think it's
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, because I think a lot of the time, especially now with the whole, you know, capitalism, everything, you know, you sort of, you're earning money in your work, that's the kind of purpose. But see that as soon as your work becomes something that you also are putting your heart and soul into, it's, it's, yeah, easy.
00:54:28
Speaker
I did it for a little while with the jewellery making and it was just yeah like you say you know you love what you make and then you give it to someone on offer and they sort of go oh yeah nice and then walk off and you're like oh okay yeah yeah totally totally I know you get that all the time any kind of market you go to there will be someone who goes oh that's nice but not for that much and you're like oh my whole soul into that and you're like oh no please
00:54:53
Speaker
Please take it, take it, take it, love it. It's made for you, you know. Have you seen that song which is like, it does that much because it takes me. Yes, I have. I've resisted using it as a reel on Instagram for so long, but I think I might have to.
00:55:12
Speaker
Yeah, it does. It takes you a lot. And, you know, for me, it's just putting everything, all my knowledge, all my eight years of archaeology goes into one candle. And it's amazing how many transferable skills you have in archaeology that you don't even realise that you had beforehand.
00:55:31
Speaker
No way if you told me like three years ago, Oh, Ashley, by the way, you put to be a candlemaker. I was an academic. You know, so it's very different. It's a whole different ballpark, but you can still do what you love in a different format.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah. And for the biggest thing, I think for us was definitely getting off the supplier. That was, yeah, the Crownog Centre, as much as the British Museum is amazing. And that was such an honor on the British Museum to be part of that and to be continuing to be part of that. When the Crownog Centre reached out, I cried. Oh, I can imagine. I was like, oh, it's legitimate. That must have been amazing.
00:56:21
Speaker
Do you have any plans to, what are your plans for the future with Ashwood candles? Are you going to try and expand out to other retailers?
00:56:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to try. It's wholesale season at the moment, so people are ramping up for summer. Since COVID restrictions are quite low at the moment, then it means that people are buying more. So I've already reached out to a few other suppliers and I'd absolutely love to work with. So fingers crossed it goes well. I'd like to make more candles and expand the site
00:56:53
Speaker
my website. I mean, honestly, that would be the dream. If I could somehow fund and help explanations, I would absolutely love to do that. That's one of our big goals is to start putting money into community and support.
00:57:12
Speaker
Yeah, it'd be amazing. But yeah, just, you know, expand the ranges into different types of eras and types of artifacts and things. So, you know, I'm talking with like a Pictish one or like, like, yeah.
00:57:28
Speaker
But I just need to get the right sense, I think. And I don't want them to be bad smells, you know, I want them to be nice smells. Oh, exciting. Well, I think that probably looks the end of our tea break probably trying to get back to work.
00:57:45
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining me today, Ash. It was really nice to chat to you. It was lovely to chat to you too. Yeah, it was nice, it was so fun. We've known each other for a while now through Instagram, but I think people have ever actually talked in person. No, I know. I know. I was thinking that actually. I was like, I know exactly what you sound like and everything, but that's because of Instagram.
00:58:17
Speaker
And if anyone wants to find out more about Ashwood Candles or about the history of candles, you can check the show notes on the podcast homepage. I hope that you all enjoyed our journey into the past today. See you next month for another episode of Teeth Break Times.
00:58:33
Speaker
I hope that you enjoyed our journey today. If you did, make sure to like, follow, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and I'll see you next month for another episode of Tea Break Time Trouble.
00:58:45
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.