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The Contemporary Circus Handbook with Eric Bates - Circuspreneur Podcast Ep.91
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Purchase The Contemporary Circus Handbook-
https://modernvaudevillepress.com/contemporary
On this episode of the Circuspreneur Podcast, host @SheneaStiletto interviews author of The Contemporary Circus Handbook, Eric Bates. For those looking for Circus Holiday Gifts, this is a peak option to inspire Circus and Entrepreneur friends and family for the New Year.
Eric Bates started his Circus Arts career with Circus Smirkus, and went on to graduate from The National Circus School of Montreal in 2011. He has since performed for the world's leaders in a private show with Cirque du Soleil at G7, on Broadway with The 7 Fingers, and in 40 countries around the world. He has a Guinness World Record for his juggling, as well as two medals and the audience choice award at the Cirque de Demain Circus Festival for his cigar box juggling and russian bar acts. He is the cofounder of Cirque Barcode, with whom he has created 3 shows: Sweat & Ink, Branché and See You Down the Road. He is the author of The Contemporary Circus Handbook, which pulls back the curtain on the process of making shows of all different sizes.
The Contemporary Circus Handbook info:
@modernvaudevillepress Publisher , The Contemporary Circus Handbook.
@thomwalljuggler runs @modernvaudevillepress
@kimzyn & @domaskbz Book Editors
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Transcript
Introduction to StageLink and Eric Bates
00:00:03
Speaker
This podcast is also available via stagelink dot.com, the groundbreaking new platform for live performing arts. I'm your host, Shanice DeLetto, and my guest on today's Circuspreneur podcast is circus artist and author of the contemporary circus handbook, Eric Bates. Eric, welcome to the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me on. You're so welcome. Thank you for coming today. After having, we had such a big day.
00:00:33
Speaker
If you know what I mean, wink, wink. But I will go into Eric's phenomenal bio. Eric Bates has been juggling for as long as he can remember juggling torches while he was still in elementary school. After performing with the Youth Circus, Circus Marcus, he went on to make it his career, graduating from the National Circus School of Montreal in 2011. He has since performed for the world leaders in a private show with Cirque du Soleil at G7 on Broadway with the Seven Fingers and in 40 countries around the world. He has
Founding Cirque Barcode and Show Creations
00:01:02
Speaker
a Guinness World Record for his juggling, as well as two medals and the Audience Choice Award at the Cirque du Simone Circus Festival for his cigar box juggling and Russian bar acts.
00:01:11
Speaker
He is the co-founder of Cirque Barcode, with whom he has created three shows, Sweat and Ink, Branche, and See You Down the Road. He is the author of the contemporary circus handbook, which pulls back the curtain on the process of making shows of all different sizes.
00:01:28
Speaker
fantastic. I'm so happy to have you here, Eric. And I'm so happy to have met you. I saw you from afar online for a bit. And, um you know, I had a kind of intimate relationship with um your your editor for the book, Kim Campbell, which Kim is just phenomenal and amazing. And we recently met each other in person while working in Chicago for Cirque Esteem and You were a fabulous human being. I loved getting to know you and performing and working with you. Your act was fantastic. It, um you know, just got the whole audience all riled up at the Cirque Esteem Gala. And um I loved like trading stories with you, circus stories. And then when we were talking, I was like, oh my God, yes, contemporary Cirque du Camp book. Like that is you. I love this book. I love how those connections happen.
00:02:25
Speaker
It's a small world. and you know You're based up in Canada, so you know I'm glad that you know and I'm heavily based now um in America, even though I'm kind of freelancing, going all over the place now and and flying around.
Purpose of the Podcast: Educating on Circus Industry
00:02:36
Speaker
and so This is great because this is, again, how you meet other performers and um you know kind of connect with the with the circuit world so it was great to finally meet you in person and then you know during the process of your book being written that's when I was hearing so much about your book and then I was thinking where did I like shuffle it away about interviewing you because I had it on my mind you know speaking to Kim while Kim was helping you with ah with the handbook and You've got it right here for those that are just listening in and out looking tuning in. It's a wonderful cover. um And I'm so excited to speak to you about this book, Eric, because there's not so many folks that have taken it upon themselves to write a circus book. um Mostly it's usually, you know, probably fiction, I think, but I think it's great to put out
00:03:22
Speaker
resources and material that's easily digestible, which I feel like your book is. I um you know i had a really great time and experience reading it. um you know I understood and learned also too, obviously so much from the book, which is great. I think that anywhere you are in your career, you can learn something from the book, whether you're you know somewhere down the road like we are in our careers, or if you're kind of just starting out.
00:03:47
Speaker
Making your way during circus school, which I would tell people, read this before you graduate. Read this before you get yourself out there into the world and also to continue to tune into the Circuspreneur podcast because everyone knows if you tune into my podcast. I love the educational
Writing the Contemporary Circus Handbook
00:04:03
Speaker
and informative aspect of the circus biz and I think teaching all of the kind of gatekeeping ideas for the circus industry is you know a kind of special renaissance of our time of releasing the gates to that information and helping folks learn it and do it you know just as good or as better as better as you have, Eric, or as better as the professionals that you interviewed in the book that have been around for a long time. So my first question to you is, why the Contemporary Circus Handbook?
00:04:31
Speaker
Where did it come from? Why did you feel, okay, let me write this book. You wrote it during the pandemic, which that was a great time. So many folks were pregnant with ideas for a very long time and then had the time to write or do things, but maybe not all of them completely materialized. um And yours definitely did.
00:04:49
Speaker
um You know my podcast came through that but it was it was an is it was an idea that was like 10 years in the making um And I wish that I had done it sooner even though I'm glad that I'm the person I am right now That's doing it in this particular time. So it's kind of a catch-22 So a long-winded question Eric, but I love the book and I'm so excited to have you on the podcast and please Yeah, tell tell listeners how you got here Yeah, so I had Ben being a professional circus artist my whole career. So since I graduated ENC, I was with the Seven Fingers, Cirque du Soleil, Cirque du Loise, Cabarets in Europe, you know, just doing all the contracts like we do short term, long term stuff.
00:05:29
Speaker
um and With Barcode, we got to a point where we're like, man, we've really done the rounds. like We tried street performing. We did these huge, huge events, you know like $70 million dollars weddings in India, like G7. We felt like we had kind of seen it. you know and We were doing a lot of events especially, and we're like, ah we didn't really get into circus because of events. It wasn't like a bank's Christmas party that we saw when we were kids that made us want to do shows. It was shows.
00:05:57
Speaker
so So we were like, I think it's time for us to make a show here. um
Creative Process During the Pandemic
00:06:03
Speaker
And I think, like now I just, I'm embarrassed to even say it, but we were also, usually we would show up and we were the entire show, you know, we came with Russian bar hoop boxes, handto- hand to hand bonking. Like our team was, had a lot of skills together. And we're like, man, we're just showing up and like doing this whole thing for these other companies.
00:06:22
Speaker
like yeah we should We should do it. like We'll make all the money if we do it ourselves. That wasn't the only motivator. We also wanted to like make a show because we cared about shows, which is just so foolhardy in retrospect because there's so much more work that goes on. That's like totally the attitude of like a kid out of circus school or, I guess, even further along the map that just doesn't know like how much work it takes. And so we made our first show. We made Sweat and Ink, which we toured around Europe. And we played it yeah we played in Montreal at the Tohou. We played in Paris. we played you know We played all over the place. But the creation was really difficult because we never made a show before. And and we just got rocked pretty much. It was like School of Hard Knocks. um you know We did everything the hard way. We weren't sure how to delegate. And you know finding carne atéas,
00:07:14
Speaker
You know, you need a passport for all your equipment and just all this stuff that you have no idea about when other people are taking care of it. oh And so during the pandemic, we started making our second show. And this one, we were going to hire more people to to perform in the show. We were hiring artists and not just doing it ourselves.
00:07:33
Speaker
And I think right around on there, I really was examining the process of how we made a show and what our creative process was like, because I knew if I was bringing in people that weren't ourselves, I needed it to be a smoother process. I needed them to have a good time if I was hiring them. That was really important to me and that I would take care of them if I asked them to trust me with this creative process and, and you know, hopping into sort of ah a small company's creation process.
00:08:02
Speaker
Um, so I was examining that process and as I did it, I made me think like, how are other people doing this? What have my experiences been on other shows and just realizing how little I knew about it and how curious I was how other people do this.
00:08:17
Speaker
um And so I started talking to more and more people, and since I had time during the pandemic, I started interviewing people. And, you know, it just it just grew and grew ah to the point where I was like, oh, I think I'm writing a whole book. This isn't just ah an article or a little e-book. This is like, this is going to be a real thing. um And then, you know, I got an editor, Kim, and then I got a publisher that Kim recommended, Tom, who publishes circus books, and they just,
00:08:45
Speaker
you know, held me accountable to to bring it to that next level and to to make sure we were really leaving no stone unturned and and helping people with this thing that I think everyone learns the hard way. um And so hopefully we can we can make it a little bit easier for people.
00:09:00
Speaker
I think
Lessons for Creativity Beyond Circus
00:09:01
Speaker
that you're definitely making it easier for people with this book. And so if you're listening in, please read the book because you know the way that Eric really lays out you know the steps, like one through 5 billion, because it is very difficult to make a show.
00:09:16
Speaker
It's a very difficult to make a show. So, you know, from steps from 1 to 5 billion, he really lays it out. It's very it's a very easy read. um But you're also, you know, dealing with a lot of complex concepts. So you've got a lot of great exercises in the book, Eric. um You know, they're fantastic. And I think, you know, this is a really great book. Even if it's not about creating a contemporary circus show, I think that you can use this for many different things actually and apply you know similar principles um and exercises that you have in the book because it's really taking you on a journey of you know either growing a business, but at least definitely growing an effort or something that you want to establish, something that you want to grow and something that you want to make.
00:09:59
Speaker
and So many folks are starting from scratch, especially in this business where they really don't get this type of, I think, education in a circus school or if you're not coming from a circus school, which so many folks are are not coming from a circus school. um and I think that these should actually be adapted into a lot of curriculums. You know you should be able to understand at least the crooks and like the small components of how to put together a small show because especially now moving forward, I think that's a great idea for most folks to kind of um lean into, especially there's so many different um arts and circus collectives that are kind of sprung up. and
00:10:38
Speaker
where I've been encouraging folks when they come to me of, you know, you might not want to keep this as a collective. You might want to turn this into an actual show. You might want to turn this into and a nonprofit, a Bible One Three C. You might want to turn this into something that's incorporated or that's business, you know? And I really like the fact that you go through those different stages of how difficult certain aspects of those things are and how you can benefit from moving yourself in those directions but especially right now because they see so many of those things bringing up especially in america in a way that i haven't seen in probably ever um over the course of my career and maybe for you it's not starting a studio maybe for you it's going and starting a show and it doesn't have to be this hugely
00:11:18
Speaker
big show. It can be a small effort of a few folks that are concentrated and you know have the passion to stay with it because it is a really big effort. and you know What do you think about that? yeah but i mean That's something I've seen a lot since finishing the book is how it's not just about making a circus show. It's really about like the collaborative process and how similar that process is even if you're making Book or if you're making a movie for example, which is two other things that I've done since finishing the book and just seeing you know Like having other people that could help me and keep me accountable while I was writing the book my editor and my publisher Brought so much more to the table and made it so much richer than if I was trying to do everything myself And so I think there's a lot of lessons in this book
00:12:01
Speaker
that can apply to whatever it is you're doing, whether you want to make a company or you want to make a a small thing with your friends, or if you're trying to open a bakery, I think a lot of it is just figuring out how do I work with people? How do I promote this thing that I'm working on? How do I find money for it? How do I bring my dream to life, basically? like And how did you decide who you wanted to participate in the book? and Who inspired you to you know be interviewed? Because you interviewed some folks quite a bit throughout the book, um and you know they're all really fantastic human beings. um And so you know um how did you kind of, do you want to let down to who you wanted? Were there more people that you interviewed that didn't even make it into the book um you know this time around for maybe like a part two? I don't know, because I feel like you really like you really got it in there.
00:12:46
Speaker
I don't know if you even need to do a part two because there's so much in there and it might just turn into something else but you know you really didn't leave I think like any stone um unturned which speaks to I think the thoroughness of those of us that have been kind of circuspreneurs in this industry where You kind of have to do that um to maintain a career, no matter what type of career you have in this industry, especially if you have any kind of semblance of a career that's kind of freelance, which most folks will start out in that way. Not everybody's going to go into a resident show or to a touring show for like one to 10 years or one to five years. You're going to have to really know how to take care of yourself. um
Importance of Feedback and Belief in Projects
00:13:22
Speaker
And research is is a really big part of that.
00:13:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was really important to me to talk to a few different models of creation. So I wanted to talk to you know a big company like Seven Fingers. And since I have access to them and their shows are so good, I'm like, well, how do you guys do it? like You're the gold standard in Montreal. um So I wanted to talk to Gypsy and Shaina and get their perspectives. But I also wanted to say, you know how do you do it if it's if it's not a Hollywood movie? How do you do it if it's like an indie film?
00:13:50
Speaker
um So in that case, I want to talk to some street performers. I talked to ah some friends in Vermont that were making a brand new cabaret like four times a year, always making new material, always bringing new guests. And just to see like all of the different possibilities. There's no right way. There's no right size to make a show. So I want to show this just vast variety of of ways to make this happen because the way that works for me or the way that works for you might not be the way that works for I don't know if someone in Belgium, for example, they might have different funding opportunities. They might have different ways that they like to work either creatively or ah to structure the interactions between their team. And I wanted to just show how how flexible and how if you can be creative, which a lot of people in our industry are, if you can be creative, you can really make your own path and and build something that works for you and your dream.
00:14:45
Speaker
And how important um was it for you to provide um you know to put like you know your perspective inside of that to also create i think you know the perspective of so many other folks in the industry? Because you know sometimes people are coming from maybe just like one perspective. They don't want to you know kind of like outsource and use too many different perspectives because they feel like that will be too complicated.
00:15:08
Speaker
um or make it too challenging for folks to kind of like follow along um and they want to keep it a little bit more concentrated. But what I liked is that you did provide so many different perspectives because sometimes folks are so stuck on their one idea. And I think that that can kind of get you into trouble, even if it's a really fabulous idea. And you so you talk about that a lot in the book of staying so focused on one thing and not being willing to deviate or let it go or fail to get to another level, you know, or actually just like have others give perspective so that you can you know get the assistance and the help that you need to make yourself, to make the show, make the concept better, to work better as a group, um and to also allow folks to point out where you might be making mistakes. Sometimes I see people being a little bit too precious around an idea.
00:15:52
Speaker
and a concept. And then you know kind of once they have it around folks, they realize, maybe I should have gotten a little bit more feedback before ah you know I kind of like put this out you know into the world and feedback can be harsh. And sometimes I thought about this too while reading your book, Eric. The majority of the times when I've seen a show, you're always thinking, there's this one aspect of I think that they should have changed that. And do they have the proper people around them to change that one thing that almost everybody can see is not is not right, kind of you know ruins the entirety of the rest of how the rest of the show works, even though the show might be great. And sometimes I wonder, you know who wasn't there that needed to be in the room and who wasn't allowed or whose voice was it made space for? Any of those things, you never really know because sometimes you can't we can't figure it out even by speaking to everybody that worked on it.
00:16:43
Speaker
Now when I see anything on stage, I'm just like, congratulations. You you did it. You got something that an audience is looking at. like That's incredible. ah But I wanted to touch on a couple of other things. like I love what you're saying about like failing fast is the the term I've heard and and trying things quickly so that you can see, does this work? Does it not? Do we feel good doing this it when an audience is looking at us? um and then One of the biggest questions we had that that Kim and and Tom, and actually Tom brought on another editor to help with structure as well, ah Benjamin.
00:17:17
Speaker
One of our biggest questions was how do we structure this book? and Because it's it's just so vast making a show. It's advertising, it's funding, it's creative exercises in the room, it's working with a team and and conflict resolution. And so what we wanted to do was figure out what are all these different steps, sort of A to Z of making the show and and selling it and then touring.
00:17:39
Speaker
um And what are all the different pieces of advice that I'm getting? And where do they overlap? Because if I got a lot of people saying the same thing, oh, okay, Shayna is saying this, but someone in France is saying the exact same thing, they have a very different thing, but they're like, this is the key piece of advice. I was like, okay, I've got three or four people saying this, I have to include it. Even if I've never tried it, I was like, this seems to be a recurring theme that people are universally saying this will help you.
00:18:07
Speaker
So I think a lot of the the process was finding what is the structure so it's easy to understand where my my creative process I can open up to the chapter on funding. Boom and read that. And then how can I collect all the advice and and distill it down to like the most important useful pieces so that you have lots of different ideas. But also I made sure to get the ones that everyone is saying in there to make sure you get the good stuff.
00:18:33
Speaker
I love what you said too about, you know, you have so much respect for anyone that has a show that's just out there. And I do too, because you can't be in this industry for this long. Like, you know, I have this much experience without seeing how many shows have come and gone and just how difficult it is to put that together. Because sometimes when you are the artist, you have the luxury of not having to take care of everything. um You know, you learn when you're a producer of a show, which I've worn many, many hats over my career. not just as an artist, you realize how difficult things are. And sometimes you can have everything. It just doesn't work. You can have everything. Everything can be working out. Everything can even come together. And there's some aspect maybe even of the selling of the show. It just doesn't work. It's not your time. Sometimes I've seen timing be almost the most crucial thing for a show working where it's like, ah, it was just timing for that particular company, that particular idea, that particular quest, all of those things. We were supposed to open sweat and ink
00:19:30
Speaker
the day before COVID happened. We had flown our entire show and crew and our sound and light technician to Switzerland. We were rehearsing in the theater. The next day, we were supposed to move to the festival to premiere it, and we the borders started closing. And we had pet our techs had families in other countries where they didn't have work permits, and we were like, time to get on a plane, guys. like Show's not going to happen. And we and then we took another like four months or five months before we were able to finally put it on stage.
00:19:58
Speaker
So yeah, it's like timing timing can be huge. What do you think that is
Challenges in Show Production
00:20:03
Speaker
um the biggest indicator in a way of whether a show is gonna succeed or not? Did you kind of come to some more solid conclusions after you put the book together and after you wrote it of like, this is really probably yeah the the ingredients, the overall basic ingredients of what makes or break a show. Even though, like I said, we both know that they can have it all. I've been in some phenomenal shows where they just had it all.
00:20:27
Speaker
um and it didn't and it didn't stay. Or it worked for as long as it was supposed to because I don't necessarily call those things failures. The show maybe ran for two years and it was the most popular thing out there and it touched a lot of lives. It gave people work, it gave them opportunity, the idea lived, and it inspired so many people to do so many different things. I don't necessarily ever call anything a failure, but you know obviously it's sad when you want to see something continue to grow and grow and grow like you see another show that goes on for 20 years.
00:20:54
Speaker
ah you know and sometimes it's a little bit puzzling um for folks. But sometimes if you're on the inside, you understand ah what mechanics were maybe a little bit off and maybe that's what kind of like led to that. But what kind of informed you after bringing all of this together and piecing all these things you know kind of together, Eric, that you can see now like reflecting like this is kind of like the cliff notes of what makes a show run well, what makes a show come together and survive? Yeah, I mean, I think, well, so I think survive and and just get off the ground in the first place are really two different questions because I think a lot of circus people don't want to do a show for a long time because we get bored. You know, the goal isn't to do a show for 20 years. I mean, I've done that. i've I've done three years on a show and eventually I got time for the next thing. And that's what makes the circus business really hard is that you keep turning over your product. You have to like remake your product every couple of years, you know?
00:21:44
Speaker
But I think in terms of getting a show off the ground, I would say one of the biggest thing is really just believing in your idea because you're going to have to sell it over and over and over again. Like you're going to have to be genuinely passionate about the thing you passionate about the thing you want to make because you're going to have to sell it to, uh, you know, raise money for the show, rather that's to private investors or to a grantee board to to convince them that this is a great idea. You're going to have to sell them, sell your team, uh,
00:22:12
Speaker
this dream that you have and try to get them to dream the same dream with you until you can bring it to life and then eventually you're gonna make the thing and you're gonna have to sell that to Theaters and had tell them why this show should exist in the world and why they should bring it to their Country why they should fly you halfway across the world there may be drive you even down the road but but go to all the trouble to bring your thing to life and if you don't and believe at the core of your being that the thing you're making is important. It's really hard to do that for for the two, three years it can sometimes take to to get these things to that stage where they're they're actually rolling.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I mean, I have seen, you know, people putting together shows, it literally break people. I mean, you know, this is, this is, you know, I have seen this break the souls and spirits of, you know, some of the strongest people I've ever seen. And it's a lot, you know. Don't make a show. No one should make a show. No one should make a show. Don't buy the book. Don't make a show.
00:23:15
Speaker
But this is the reason to buy the book because people needed this book. You know, folks need meet this book because before this, it's just, you know, folks kind of keeping it in house. And you know, you might not ever get close enough to this type of consolidated material and information, Eric. And that's the beauty of someone taking the initiative and putting it into a digestible format and doing the painstaking research.
00:23:39
Speaker
to help folks so it doesn't feel like I think it's going to cost them their soul to get this show together and twitter and and and you you reiterate that I think a lot in the book of like take the time and have a plan so that you can execute your idea properly so that it doesn't break down so that you don't have these same difficulties so making something more streamlined and easy but also too like not lying to folks about you know the ins and outs of what it takes to be able to do this being professional having that plan having that business plan knowing what to say you know, like really educating yourself and doing the research, which I think, you know, sometimes folks kind of get into something, again, because we love it and we're so passionate about it. Sometimes it's really hard for us to take the time, you know, to lay things out. You kind of want to just like dive in. And, you know, some aspect of that is very important. Obviously certain things you wouldn't even do it if you weren't passionate enough to just kind of dive in and like learn later. You know, I think that's one of the other things that's really valuable. Maybe if you did know, you wouldn't try, you wouldn't start it.
00:24:37
Speaker
um But piggybacking off of that, what was your favorite or what is your favorite um chapter in the book? What is your favorite component about the contemporary circus handbook for you personally? Oh, yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot of a lot of meat and potatoes in there, you know, like the is Here's how you do it. It's not necessarily the fun part. you know I didn't become a juggler because I want to get good at spreadsheets, but it's hard to make a show if you can't use a spreadsheet. so There is some of that in there, but I think what what immediately jumps out to me is I talked to all these super inspiring artists about why they wanted to make a show and like what the most important things are they learned from the experience, good or bad, of trying to do this.
00:25:19
Speaker
and it It reminds me that having that that passion and that inspiration is what's going to get you there in the end through all these other hurdles. You're going to do the things that you don't love in order to do the things that you do love, which for all of us, I think is making a show. And so I think my favorite chapter is definitely like,
00:25:38
Speaker
having that first spark of an idea and starting to build the team and telling people, look, I'm doing this and watching it gain gravity and just suck people into it and get bigger and bigger. And other people are are going to jump on the bandwagon because they see like, Oh, like that, that train is going down the road. Like all I have to do is hop on. And so like, yeah, that idea of just getting this started and, and doing the the pushing to get it started.
00:26:01
Speaker
is really, really fun. and And that gets my juices going. Whenever I see someone working on a project that they're passionate about, I just want to help them out. And so seeing all these other people that did that and and hearing about their experiences, like that's definitely my favorite part of the book.
00:26:16
Speaker
What do you want readers to take away most of from the contemporary circus handbook, whether they're from the circus or not? and We discussed that a little bit at the beginning. of I think and you think too that this is really you know a handbook that can be applied to all sorts of things, any type of kind of startup company that you want to kind of get into. I mean, I really took that away from reading the book, um like this could be applied to all sorts of things of giving folks structure and giving them the support. There's a lot of supportive texts within the book, a lot of reassurance within it, which I also really like too because you do need a lot of reassurance um when you're taking an idea that's very intimate and very personal to you and you're almost putting it into the hands of others and you're definitely putting in kind of like your baby and your idea into the hands of
00:27:01
Speaker
an audience that's strangers to you. um And then seeing it reflected back to you whether or not they like it, whether or not they love it just as much as you love it. um And, you know, putting something out into the world that you love and then kind of letting it take on a life of its own is a really kind of delicate and sensitive act. I feel that way every single time I do a podcast, you know, and voicing and using my voice and wanting folks to be as inspired for an episode as I am or making sure that I respect the episode as much as I feel like it deserves and maybe if I miss the mark because you can't get there every single time. And maybe your first show isn't going to be this the show. Maybe it's going to be your second or third or fourth incarnation. And I think it's really important to remember that too. And so a lot of those things kind of like built up in me while I was reading the Contemporary Circus Handbook. Take it away, Eric. Okay. um What do you, you're asking what people want to, what I hope people get ah out of this book? Yeah.
00:27:56
Speaker
um yeah i mean My first thought is that if people just don't trip over like one or two of the tripping blocks that there are on the way to making a show, it is like worth the price of admission to reading this book. Because when I talked about these 20-something people, creators that made their own shows,
00:28:14
Speaker
over and over again. I was like, Oh my God. Yes. Like if only I had known that when I was making our show, and then I would immediately apply it to our new shows and things would go better. So just the idea to, to save a couple of headaches to people so that they can put their art out into the world. Like that's what I'm i'm hoping this book does for people and and that they, they feel like they have someone in their corner. They have this resource that's in their corner for them. So they do do this thing and make the mistakes that they're inevitably going to make. And they they learn and they grow from that experience. i think yeah that's what i That's what I hope people take away from this is that they they do the thing because it's not 100% a mystery. Maybe it's only 90% a mystery because they've got this book, but that they go do the thing and and grow because of it instead of just you know wishing one day that they would do it.
00:29:06
Speaker
What is your biggest takeaway
Artists Transitioning to Production
00:29:07
Speaker
in telling artists to either write a book or get their concept out there into the world or to transition into show producer or show maker? Because even though you're putting together the show, you might not necessarily wear one of those hats, right? You might bring in a producer, you might bring in somebody else, you might bring in an entire team that you assemble, and you're still the artist that's producing the show. It's still your idea. But it's not always that it's the artists that are producing and putting on shows, which sometimes, you know, I hear folks upset about that. They want to see more artists producing producing shows because artists usually have such valuable feedback. And we see things from a certain perspective that sometimes folks that are on the theoretical side um
00:29:49
Speaker
ah don't see right folks that are you know on the production side that have never existed on stage they don't know what that feels like and it doesn't make any of those things wrong but you know i hear that quite often of like were there any artists that like had notes on this You know, that that, you know, had something to say. So it's great seeing an artist take this initiative to make notes on this show. I mean, you know, of course, Seven Fingers started with artists that came together and started their own show. But I have to say, too, that is still very unique, right? Most of the time, it's still folks that maybe have never existed on stage as a performer that are putting together shows. And there's also, too, a talent for someone that can organize a show and that has to take that on day in and day out, you know, to lose your voice, to be exhausted, to be there for the 16 hours when other folks get to go home, go to sleep, and focus on you know maybe one or two hours of what their job is while the other person is still up.
00:30:40
Speaker
still getting the money, still creating the language, still investigating how to get it to whatever country, still handling all those other different things that you've discussed or whatever. So, you know, because there's so many moving parts to it. So, you know, what what is your what is your takeaway to artists that are wanting to make that particular transition? That's also too still very unique, but that you're bringing, I think to the forefront in your book, the Contemporary Circus Handbook, Eric. Yeah, I think when I was younger, I had this idea that you eventually transition from being an artist to being a producer or a director or something as you get older and your body's tired. And and I just turned 37, so I am getting older and my body is tired. But I don't think it's as black and white as we make it sound. I think now that I've made shows, I am just like the happiest person to be on other people's shows because I just get to do the fun part. I just get to do the artistic part, you know? But I also don't believe that I suddenly have
00:31:39
Speaker
a huge say in what I'm doing on that stage because it's their project. you know They did all this work to bring it to life. If they want to make it about dinosaurs, I'm not going to come and say, no, this is a show about cowboys. you know like this is That's what you earn and that's what you get to do when you put in all the other work is you get to do the show that you want to do and that you believe in, but it it comes with all that other work. And so I feel like going through that process, you really appreciate that better and you you become a richer artist for it when you're on someone else's set and you also, you know, you you you look at shows differently because now the lighting and the costumes are important and you say, you know, how much money did they have to to put those costumes and that lighting on stage? Is it creativity that got them there or is it a big budget or is it a big budget poorly used that maybe they should have put towards
00:32:28
Speaker
sound design. you know you start to just You just get a richer toolkit when you start doing it yourself as an artist and understanding how much more of what makes a show good it is than just the juggling tricks or whatever. Usually in the beginning you're like, oh, my my hoop diving tricks. That's what's going to make this awesome. But it's like really good lighting, really good pacing, really good sound design. like Things that we are maybe not experts in at circus school can really elevate a performance too.
00:32:58
Speaker
And I think you you just learned how much richer our art is than just the the skills we acquired when we became like circus artists at the very beginning.
00:33:10
Speaker
a
Resource for Circus Schools and Availability of the Book
00:33:11
Speaker
That's brilliant. Well, I hope to see your book in more circus schools. With that said, because like I said from the beginning, I think that this is a great educational resource for folks that are in circus school to give them what you're discuss what you're saying, Eric, is an even deeper appreciation appreciation for being on stage and for what that takes.
00:33:33
Speaker
And that's just going to be an even more um you know a richer experience for everyone involved in any production that you're in, whether or not you're a performer or you're coming from a different you know position or you might find yourself in one of those positions in the future and you know if that's your circus journey, because we're all on one and we don't really know where it's going to go and where it's going to kind of um pivot to. Can you let us know where we can get the book, Eric, and where we can find you and follow you and support you?
00:34:02
Speaker
Yep. So the best thing to do it would be to get it at modernvaudevillepress.com slash contemporary. That's my micro publisher that ah publishes circus books only. So that's just a really cool person to support if you don't want to go through you know one of the the giants, but it can also be found on Amazon. And it's also available as an ebook for for people that don't want a printed copy. But it's also print on demand. There's not like a million of these living in a warehouse. so yeah We're doing our best to like give people the option to have a physical copy But also give them an e-book if they want and if you want to find out more about me I'm cigar box juggler on Instagram or you can see some my Russian bar work on Cirque underscore barcode underscore circus at Instagram just search with barcode circus company and they know you can see some of my Filming video work at Eric Bates images
00:34:55
Speaker
I do a lot of things, but I love it. I love it. It's a circus. And I'm also still holding off for that audio version, which we have discussed and we've spoken about. So I still think that could be something that you do because I think that it could be a fabulous addition to your already fantastic book, Eric. I'm still staying tuned for
Eric's Future Plans and Closing Remarks
00:35:14
Speaker
that if it ever happens, but no pressure. And congratulations on the book, Eric. I'm writing the book, finishing the book. I don't know how many people I've spoken to over the years that have written a book and just, you know, the effort that it takes to be able to do that. And I know that it will, you know, continue to provide so many resources for the circuit source industry and not many resources that are out there that are applicable in this way. So that's why I think it is so, so, so very special. Get your hands on this book. Take from it. Take notes. Feedback. And, you know, obviously, Eric is a continuous resource. I'm interested to see if you'll write another book or what the rest of your journey is going to look like. I'm sure it's going to be very multifaceted, Eric. And thank you so much again for coming on the Circus Renewal podcast. I really appreciate your perspective and your time. your due diligence and putting this out into the circus world because I think it's very valuable and it took a lot of time and if you read through all of the information that Eric provides in the book you'll see just how much time he took to provide this and how much research it took and from all the voices that were also too involved in making the book. I appreciate their effort and them willing to be an open resource to you and providing kind of I think that like peer behind the curtain as well and we will
00:36:31
Speaker
in the episode with the Circuspreneur podcast is also available on stagelink.com. S-D-A-G-E-L-Y-N-C dot C-O-M, the groundbreaking new platform for live performing arts that provides unmatched access and connection to this vibrant world of shows and entertainment. If you're a professional in the performing arts, visit stagelink dot.com slash pro. S-D-A-G-E-L-Y-N-C-P-R-O, StageLink Pro, offers industry professionals higher visibility, networking opportunities, and tools to support and enhance their careers Until next time, everyone, I'm your host Sinead Stiletto. Please stay safe and stay healthy. Thank you, Eric. Thanks.