Transcript
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pine podcast. I'm Will. I'm James and here we are back in separate places again no sooner than one week after moving in and starting recording the podcast in the studio. I'm courtesy of my sick son who i has kept me tied to the house today but you know at least you're making use of the office space Will.
Speaker: Yes, definitely. And um a bit of a warning for listeners, we're recording this a little bit early so that our producer, Matt, can get this done before he enjoys the long flight home to Australia. So I'll have at least one other person in the office with me occasionally. So I've got someone to banter with. Yeah, well, it's it's sort of um flood or famine for you at the minute, isn't it? We're either all there or you're there on your lonesome bouncing around at a large warehouse. um But anyway, i I will be back in to to join you tomorrow, Will. But um before we get to that, I guess, yes, ah let's have a chat about what's been happening over over the past few days, including um some more positive news out of of the gu the team at Bright Brewery.
Speaker: Yeah, massive news from Bright. So at the start this week, they are revealed and we ran on the site that they've taken over the Dainton Brewery Taphouse in Croydon and that they'll also be opening a taphouse in Wangaratta, the regional city, which isn't too far from their home, Bright, in the high country. That's probably more like a year away, but they did buy it last year. So it's an old a former nightclub in the heart of Wangaratta that they've turned into they'll be turning into a space of their own that's just got a bit of work on it whereas in Croydon because they've taken it straight acquired it straight from Dainton they'll should have that open in late September early October.
Speaker: And so was it the Wangaratta one that they were you were you were sort of teasing me that there was some news coming from Bright about a new venue a while ago and then it seemed to sort of take a while so was that the the Wangaratta one as opposed to the the Croydon site?
Speaker: Yeah, I heard they had another place so a while ago. Um, these things get out a little bit and obviously, uh, that they sort of bought the Wanger out of sight and then this Dainton one became available. So the longer term project has probably been on the back burner a little bit since that'll take a while. So they've sort of been more, all systems go with, uh, Croydon, which is a southeastern suburbs of Melbourne or more eastern suburbs of Melbourne, lifty eastern suburbs. Um, it's a had a bit of a run as breweries it was the public brewery originally and uh then it dainton acquired it in 2022 i believe uh so a number of years ago and uh now bright take take the keys this know it's a great great spot lovely um uh sort of converted building when the public brewery first went in there i know they used to a fair bit of brewing there um from what you were telling me i don't believe bright have a brew in there they're going to just uh make more space to get punters through and just run it as a
Speaker: another tap room and it takes me back a few years ago when I was up in Bright over one of the long weekends chatting to Scott Brandon the brewery founder and he was talking about this it would have been I don't know they would they would have only had the the um the original brew pub on the Ovens River at that point but it it was very much part of their plans was to was to sort of explore getting more venues on board so this will give them a you know four venues by at some point next year Yeah, definitely. So they have the Prince Alfred Hotel in Carlton as well, which they've very much left as its own. It's an old uni pub. And then these ones will be more, uh, will carry the Bright brand, but also have their own identities as well. The location in Cruden, uh, it's definitely, it's a great one, like right near the train station. It's one of those suburbs that if it didn't have a brewery, basically every suburb like it would have a brewery of its own. lot of houses, a lot of residential, a lot of people. So yeah, it'd be exciting to see what the team with Bright do with space.
Speaker: Excellent. Well, good stuff for following up on that one because I think we we had it on the site very very soon after Bright put the word out there, which is good to see. Yes, 10 minutes in fact, I think.
Speaker: um Well, and from ah you know the high country in the eastern suburbs to Sydney, we got ah a feature with um Mitch Hobbs from Hopsters. Hopsters, if people don't know, it's a unique operation in Australia. It's a genuine cooperative brewery. um I think they looked few similar models in australia sorry in the States before launching ah just under 10 years ago. So it has a whole bunch of and cooperative members that are all part of the Hopsters gang. um it's They've got ah a tap room in Enmore. They don't actually have an operational brewery in there yet, but that is on the cards, they're hoping. They've been making beer mainly with Frenchies, but with a few other people as well. around Sydney. um And yeah, Mitch is just, he's just great guy. he's He's one of the members, member number seven. um He's one of, I think he's saying seven people that get paid within the operation, within Hopsters to run various parts of the business. there's about 50 others who get involved with volunteering, helping to run the place, getting, um going with events. We did an event with them, was it last year or the year before? um Blind tasting. And it was just,
Speaker: It's just a really well run place, I guess, because people are bought into the club. I mean, you can go there to be a member to go along, but i think because people are bought in, there is you know more sort of um you know wanting to get behind the events they're doing and and and any sort stuff they got on, whether it's live music or what have you. um And he's, i think he's just, you know, thriving on being in the middle of it. He'd worked in some other beer roles before. So yeah, with the 10th anniversary coming up, we thought we'd to invite him to head behind bars and tell us all about what's going on at Hopsters and what's happening happening in the scene around them. um And really sort of making me think we need to get back up there and do another event with him.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. And you know, that um pedigree of being from Camperdown Cellars, when you look at there was a number of people at that um spot around the same time as well, really was one of those pivotal parts of Sydney craft beer history. yeah So it's sort of cool to touch on that as well. And, you know, speaking of history, but hopefully it won't be distant history. We also ran a story on barrel aged beers late last week, Froth Town of Uh, they're bringing back a sort of much loved event from WAs beer history. And we thought it was a good time to also talk about, I guess the challenges in the barrel aged beer. Mark, I think we've done so many stories over the past, you know, a couple of years about, you know, whether it's black hearts, you know, sorry, black hearts, black hearts closing down that we're making or barrel aged and blended beers. you know, sobramater called it a day recently, wildflower have gone on an extended hiatus, dollar bills, you know, up for sale. It's sort of it's not a great space. like You know, those more sort of esoteric, typically big bottle beers, you know, other people sort of either shrinking or or abandoning their barrel programs.
Speaker: um So just it was just yeah what once I heard from the Froth Town team um that this night of the barrels is coming back. it was like, oh this sounds like a bit of fun. Yeah. So John O, one of our writers based out there who also works for the IBA, chatted some of the brewers behind it, um, what they're doing, what they love about barrel aged beer. It's one those things you read it and go, you know, and surely these will have their time and come back. I think as Will Irving from found X Feral said, you know, he really hopes it's, you know, it's a cyclical, um, thing in the barrel aged, uh, beers and these, these more sort of, um, you know, complex beers do come back. I think one of the other brewers, Ryan at, um,
Speaker: market of beer clubs says you know they fly in the face of um efficiency and all that kind of thing that you know the modern beer can be about but as a result you get these more sort complex and wonderful experiences out at the end of them so um if you are heading to froth town this friday that so there's five barrels on five different breweries they're gonna be Tapped between 6 and 6.30 WA time. One of our contributors, Guy Southern, will be emceeing the tapping. um He did say it might be taking place in a boxing ring or something there. So surely you won't be able to miss it. But yeah, it sounds like some pretty cool beers there. And it was just, yeah, just a good to touch base with a few people about, you know, why, yeah know, these beers, I guess, had their moment in the sun and hopefully will again.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. and So you'll be able to catch that pre-boxing at Froth Town. Can't wait. um Hopefully but Guy isn't going to get in the ring while the boxing's on either. No, no, you'd hope not. Although having seen how Guy tends to enjoy Friday night at Froth Town, he does like his barley wines. It's one of those events where there's a good chance you can find some barley wines. So hopefully he leaves any sort of barley wine sampling after cracking the barrels. Although I guess all the beers in there are going be around about 10% anyway. So yeah. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter where he turns, I think. And before that, he'll be emceeing the pre-Frost Town, pre-Frosts event, the Brewmaster Battle at Fat Brew Club on Thursday night. A bit devastated that we're not there, Will. I think of all the... festivals around the country, certainly interstate ones. Froth Town is the one that between us, we have definitely supported the most. It's always good excuse to get out WA. I reckon I've probably done five or six of them. You've done a couple. And so it's a shame we can't make it over. But yeah, we have something rather big launching two days after the festival. So we thought it was more sensible for me to be here. And you've got your wedding coming up as well. So sorry, Froth Town. We'll be back in 2027.
Speaker: Fortunately, though, James, we are not going to miss the inaugural beer championships, which is taking place on Thursday night. You'll be able to watch it via YouTube. We'll include the link in our show notes and it's also on the Crafty Pint website. So, yeah, we're excited to see who the first, very first finalists are in the beer categories. And we'll have a story on the site early Friday as well, covering how it's gone.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure. And that will give the all the breweries that ah have gone finest in the seven categories two months to tell the world and shout about how they've got some of the best beers in Australia. And then the um the Champions Night will take place on October the 14th. That's going to be in Melbourne. um And that's the day before Grainstock kicks off. So if you do come to Melbourne for the awards, I believe the the venue in the exact time have yet to be confirmed. But you then jump on a bus and head to Grainstock, which is where we will be um for another hopefully fantastic few days in the Riverina in mid-October. um Anyway, sort of that's looking forward to months. If we go back a couple of months for this week's main podcast guest, and this was recorded, one of the ones I did where when I was over with Luke and Craig.
Speaker: in Adelaide for the Australian Distillers Association Conference back in June. um And this is with ah Ryan Davidson, who was one of the founders of Little Bang Brewing um before he was, well, they sold the business, stayed on for a while. He's no longer part of Little Bang Brewing. He's now making, um i think the official term is condiments for a post-condiment world. um that I've gone with hot sauces for the title. um But yeah, he's a real beer world character.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely. It's a great chat. Obviously it's not that often that you got sort of get to reflect on ah someone's role in a brewery once it's sold and they've moved on as well. So I think there's really interesting stuff to hear about yeah looking back on it and some of the challenges and his own experience. Well, and i think I think some people of know Ryan well as well. They're kind of... the And they'll expect the um the wild flight flights of fancy and and the um the joke cracking and stuff like that. But I think there's there is actually a lot of insight in there into what it was like, sort of you know even before um the sale of the business, you know just how You know, yeah all income, all consuming, it can be um running a small business and then what it was like sort of adjusting to life within a bigger organization. And then, you know, the feelings that you have when you're no longer running that business. um So there's a, you know, great, some great insights in there from from Ryan as well.
Speaker: absolutely Absolutely. So enjoy the conversation. If you do enjoy it, you can hit us up anytime at podcast at craftypint.com. You could also recommend some guests or just suggestions on who you think we should have on and what we should we should focus on. And you can also like, subscribe, comment, leave us review anywhere you listen to your podcast.
Speaker: Cheers. Cheers.
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Speaker: um Anyway, let's see let's get down to business. um Given this is a beer podcast, it's probably best to start with the fact you've been out of beer for a while now. yeah um What have you been up to if if people are watching on YouTube and haven't eagle eyes spotted these things behind you? Yes. ah Well, since we sold Little Bang in the middle of 2022, I did stay on with Little Bang for about a year and a half after that under the new ownership to sort of is the transition um which I kind of considered to be a whole different chapter in my beer life as well there's a lot of very interesting learning going on there working in a in a much larger sort of shareholder owned company very different and and seeing you know that part
Speaker: That little bit of time of late 2022, 2023, when beer in Australia really changed pretty hard. um Worked through that.
Speaker: So I think it was near the start of 24, I was out completely. um and know you talk about how was it it was different being sort of part of that new entity that was still the entity that you built and it different how just sort of you know like did your role change or was it just yeah things around it changed very much changed yeah and it was the same it in in some ways felt similar to the years previous because uh idea was that we'll keep the front of house
Speaker: ah we'll keep the the the public face of the businesses as the same as we can, you know. um But like all things Little Bang, there was always just so much roiling behind the surface while we're like, hey, just a couple of goofy guys in the front. And was like, yeah, a lot... um ah yeah but really really interesting informative I learned a lot about business that I didn't know i had the dumb idea that after like 10 years running a brewery I was like I'm businessman
Speaker: no fucking idea about business like what's forecast i don't know what a forecast is I do now um yeah they're a big business and so that was really interesting I wouldn't say it was really my speed and a lot of it but I learned hard quickly and I Yeah, so that was very different. Very different. Yeah, yeah. But um coming out the other side was surreal as well. I think in a way it was kind of like an odd transition because I sort of moved steadily moved down to like three days a week and and sort of moved out. I know for Phil, it was extremely discombobulating. yeah my business were you because Because he sort of left and moved the other side of the country. That's right. So he was a hard out.
Speaker: Flat, yeah that's it. Full time one day, nothing the next. And he was just in, it is a weird sort of feeling of free fall. when because Because he'd been more than 10 years and not only 10 years, but 10 years, you two side by side. Yes, the business got bigger, but so much transition, so much evolution, so much change over that 10 years, which ruled I'm assuming your personality almost becomes that thing. Yes. Or that, yes. You the business to reflect your personality and by the end, it probably goes the other way, you know?
Speaker: Definitely. Absolutely a two-way street. Yeah, yeah. and in a way, yeah, you sort of, to begin with, you create the brand out of, well, for us, we created the brand out of our personalities. But then I think our personalities absorbed what we created out of the brand. But what we created into the brand was probably more of what we absorbed from our customers over time. You know what i mean? But that does feed back in. But I don't know. everyone's Everyone's a patchwork quilt man, you know. On many, many an occasion, my wonderful partner, Kerry, when we were at home would say, ah I'm not Phil and we're not at work, you know, because I'd just be speaking in that particular place.
Speaker: uh cunty shorthand that we had i guess is that allowed on yeah well you know we i guess so you can believe it so yeah it's a you know it's a it's a booze podcast so surely it's it has to be over 18 only and we're in australia like true yeah it's right punctuation yeah i just yeah i' i'm careful i mean that's yeah It's fine for me. And and so was it what was it? So discombobulating sort of stepping away from craft beer after all those years inside it? Yeah. um ah it was It was very much what I wanted. um
Speaker: I feel like I would frequently use the analogy that being in business for us and especially in a sort of commercial forward-facing business environment For someone with a personality like mine as well, being fairly extroverted and stuff like that, you're doing a lot of constant messaging and delivering a message about yourself to the world and your business to the world, which is very which has all these extra considerations coming into these commercial considerations, considerations for...
Speaker: liabilities ya yada yada yada um so you kind of you can you can i can easily see how people lose track of themselves you know what i mean and and who they really are so coming out of it was this strange sense of no one's watching no one's looking uh even you know talking to my family if i've got an idea about something and and someone's like yeah i don't feel like i'm like i'm kind of used to people doing what i say like I'm not in charge of anyone anymore. I'm kind of a big deal, right? you know like That's all gone. you know um So was terrific. It didn't matter anymore.
Speaker: That's right. Well, never did. And that's what you discovered after two years. Only under very specific conditions that did it matter. So um not to say I was an egomaniac. I think I had it. tried to keep a really good view on it. But to suddenly also just not have every waking minute something in the back of your mind. can it's It's like if you're working on a book or or something, you're always recombinating. You're always going, I can turn this into something. This could be a a post or this could be I can turn this into content of some sort or or a project of some sort You know, we're always constantly inventing, which is a wonderful way to work, but also it dominates your your life. You wake up in the morning and you're like, ah can I can't get back to sleep now. And then one thought just breaks through the fog and it's like, well, I might as well get up now. ah they They're only going to keep rushing through. yes ah i'd I'd wake up. I
Speaker: many years where I just had a regular routine where I'd wake up about 3, 3.30 and I'd know that that's just me done till like 5. And it was like i it was like I'd sleepwalked into a meeting that was in progress every time. In your head. Yeah, just a ring-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. It was going and i and and it's just like, oh, hello. Okay, what are we talking about? Yeah. And I just... I got to...
Speaker: I just got to appreciate that time eventually because at least no one's going fucking interrupt me. yeah And I'd just sit there on my phone or my laptop or whatever. And I'd always eventually nod off again about five. And it was a new weird circadian rhythm, stressed out circadian rhythm that kind of kicked in. The joys of making craft beer. Yeah. It's just mates hanging out.
Speaker: man I don't want to be too negative about it. It's just like there's so much good fun about it. know we're common ground across. I imagine small business owners in almost any facet as well. We shouldn't paint, tar, only craft beer with this brush. We connect on the same thing all the time too. When you're running your own thing, it's just...
Speaker: um It's this odd thing. It dominates your life. It dominates your inner life. It can control your outer life in many ways in your time. But also, um it's it's really addictive. and You try to work for someone else,
Speaker: Hard work. I mean, that's kind of what I felt with with with the Duxum change. every everywhere was like Yes, I was still co-CEO. And you're mates with people within the business as well, but it's still is just a different. area But there's still now there's now other layers. There's other links in the chain. There's approvals to get. and there's There's people to convince of you your latest goofy idea. And that's...
Speaker: It's interesting. and i was I convinced myself at 4.33 this morning that it was good idea. That's all that was needed. i sign off And then I went back to bed for two hours. Yes, exactly. I'm sure many decisions were made just so I could go, yes, now I'm going to sleep. yeah Yeah, i do I do remember on several occasions, like midnight, having to get a post, some sort of post out, you know, for for the for the weekly roster of things and thinking to myself, what would Ryan say if he was here? You know, yeah like, what how do I say that in my voice, which just isn't here right now because I'm an empty husk today? And I guess in terms of filling that empty husk, you've been doing it with um electric head. Filling it with sauce, yes. Well, that took a little while to to take to take root. ah So so was was there a down period of generally being an empty husk and just, you know? Yeah, i just i i was really i could tell I could tell that I'd been reshaped. that That's right. No, that metaphor I never got around to was like, um ah we'd often talk about within it. It's kind of like working in a uranium mine in in business. like
Speaker: there are rich rewards in there but you better not stay in for too long because you're going to get sick you know or i mean some people just gravitate towards it they love it it gives them energy and phil and i i think that was a big part of the of the a really big part of the little bang identity is we always felt like complete imposters in that world like we know we're smart you know but we're just a couple of snarky game nerds who are total hyper fixated nerds about beer and this whole business part of it's just stuff we had to do and you know you you look into that abyss and that'll that abyss looks back into you and other people just thrive on that and and I don't think either of us really did so
Speaker: I spent about a year I reckon just kind of I mean it was a very fortunate thing like we sold the business we did okay in terms of sale we what with what would craft beer hadn't really fallen off that cliff yet so I mean we you know I have heard a few rumors what people think we sold for and I'm like Jesus that that would be really nice no we did make some sensible spreadsheets and and decided that this is all good and then we looked at it and said are we retired we are nowhere near retired yeah but you know I own my house now and I had a little bit of time you know so yeah Carrie and I had really nice chat about it all and we just wanted to because it dominated our life so much like those that don't know
Speaker: Carrie my partner and Katie feels partner were very deeply rolled into the business as well. So, you know, we renamed the bedroom, the bed office. Where we in our jammies side by side tap away on our laptops and then send each other the sexy messages yeah and you know add tasks to each other's. Did you chase that invoice? Whoa. You kiss your mother with that mouth. yeah um yeah but um so yeah we we just really took time to recalibrate and and find out what uh you know i'll find out what's really there on a human level without all these external pressures and and just get back to what really brings you joy or peace or whatever yeah and
Speaker: that was lovely. Reconnected with a lot of friends who weren't really around the beer scene and people I really hadn't seen in years because the only place I'd ever fucking go was beer events, you know, often at our own place. So that was really nice, you know. Yeah, exploring the further reaches of the universe with time on my hands. certain ideas really came through. And it it was, the it you know, taking that time away, taking that sort of...
Speaker: getting some peace. um Yeah, certain things sort of filter through and it's those little things that you miss that you um have forgotten like, well, not forgotten, but things that really keep coming back. And one was particularly working with Matt, and Matt O'Connor, and head designer, who's We use a lot of different artists at Little Bang. We use a lot of work from a lot of different artists, but Matt would always be the one who I would work in tandem with to bring the package together. the weaver. Yeah, oh absolutely. I mean, he's a user interface designer for video games yeah initially. So he's got how to make just necessary text
Speaker: Awesome. You know, he's got that in his veins. and But he's also an excellent artist in his own right. And he probably did 30% of the art himself too. So, um yeah, we we started chatting...
Speaker: I've always made sauce like since and before I was making beer. the the The fridge at the brewery was always heaving with my various ah you know prototypes and Jell-O from hell written on a post-it note and this bright pink thing, which is just like a Carolina Reaper extract with fucking red jelly in it. You are essentially the essence of like the the platonic craft beer aren't you really? I know. You really are. how can i comes from it comes from design computer games is already making hot sauce goes into craft beer has beard know can i find a market that's more crowded and more cliche for a person like well yeah you just need to clone yourself and you'd be fine well then i'd maybe buy it off me um so yeah we are working together i have asked matt
Speaker: what's a kind of What's an art style that he hasn't explored yet or doesn't have much experience with? And he he said he's always really admired collage and hasn't done a lot of work with collage. a lot of He's a digital artist first and foremost. And so this kind of really hands-on, limited, tactile kind of form.
Speaker: Turns out he's fucking excellent at, of course, because and so we've had some great fun working together. And it just so happens, I've got another mate who is a Michelin star chef who's now living permanently in Adelaide, and he's come into the business as well. um So we just have a great deal of fun together. there you all your recipes are awful, Ryan, but I like the idea.
Speaker: i I think, I mean, he's not one to heap praise. He's a little, he's a kid. love you buddy he's got a unique way Andrew and and those that love him really love him and those who just made it goes yeah no and when he says it's good you go yeah stun it yeah yeah um so yeah now he saw something in it and Yeah, we really try to focus on the fun element. All of us work other jobs and we're trying to focus on the parts that are enjoyable. Have you gone back to what you were doing before? Gone back to into the computer the gaming side of things? Have Yeah. No. i know I'm working part-time in bottle shop. There you go. Yeah, my favorite bottle shop, Goodwood Sellers. Yes, Goodwood Sellers.
Speaker: um Yeah, that's fantastic. Wonderful. It's so good. Because that's another that's another little nugget that I missed so much.
Speaker: And I wouldn't think it, but um I heard Mesh touch on this as well, actually. um It's kind of like when you're working in hospitality, it's sort of like... you The work is repetitive, the work is often you know drudgerous and and a janitorial you know in nature, but there is something about the the constant human contact and the people that's just wonderful and so enriching. and it was Like I didn't start working. My first job in a bottle shop, I think it was like 35, maybe 34, 35. So I was very late to it. um
Speaker: And I really thought of it as like, I'm just, this is just a stopgap because the games industry is in a slump, you know. And it was about six months in. was like, oh, oh my God, I've never been happier at work. And it's that I get to make a hundred people a little bit happier every day. You know, you just see a hundred smiles because they wanted a bottle piss. And I'm like, this one's great. You got a bottle of piss. And, and it's just, it's so addictive. It's so good for you. Yeah. I honestly think, um,
Speaker: you know and it's well known within hospitality circles you can pick hospitality people from across the bar too i think it it puts something deep down inside you that even if you're having a rough day you can have a genuine honest face that's positive to people you know it doesn't mean you're lying but you're just putting your best and foot forward with people and there's a certain level of just there's a base level of respect and and looking after each other that hospital people just understand as as a flaw and a lot of customers seem to have never yes i got that. i honestly feel like we should have national service in this country. I'm a rabid lefty, but I think national service, that's my one thing. But either in the military, if you want to do that, serve your country, absolutely. a lot of respect for those people or in hospitality.
Speaker: it will teach you how to fucking treat people have some manners yeah and it's shows some respect yeah yeah yeah at least just practice respect until it sinks in by osmosis yeah yeah for and i'm back to electric head then like where's the name come from like what what stage is the business at like how's how's it all working here we go logo yeah yeah um yeah i mad um Electric head, ah the name came from, ah ah it was ah it was a dual purpose thing. Because, yeah, it was I had that ridiculous, about it and nearly a year of just sort of,
Speaker: Laying about, you know, and and I don't know if you've ever had it in your life or this the first time it was for me where I wasn't just looking at this, wasn't just looking at the opportunities that I had and then selecting and wondering how I can fit those into my life. I just genuinely could sit and go, what would I like to do next? And I've got time, you know. Like not infinite time. I'm not retired. But I got breathing room and we allocated some time to just figure something out and give a thing a try. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It's fine.
Speaker: And it's really weird to be just like, you know, there's nothing less inspiring than a blank piece of paper and an infinite possibility. So you just face this sort of void and like you inevitably very quickly come to like, well, what do I like? What am I like? oh god you know like yeah theyre like the the existential crisis is what might people accept from me yeah maybe yeah yeah yeah yeah totally yeah and so um i was and i was i came out of the booze industry going like cool that's a great chapter but i i i certainly did have
Speaker: um There are many, many, many challenging times behind the scenes within Little Bay for all of us, I think. And ah so many beautiful friends around the brewery and customers who became close friends and things like that, that i think you spend enough time around a bar, the same bar, and you really get to know that a lot of people are going through stuff. And I i just... i i I hadn't been that interested in it before, but I really developed a sense for mental health, men's health in particular, I suppose, around beer because it's very mental dominated, I suppose. There's a lot of not talking about things. And i developed, I suppose, I'm not really backwards and coming forwards about talking about stuff. that And I really you
Speaker: got um quite absorbed in trying to draw that out of people. You could see if if people are struggling and stuff like that or trying to help, you know. And so i don't think I'd like to go out and become a counselor or something like that, but I've developed a real interest interested in mental health and and the modern condition, the modern place that we find ourselves. And so I was thinking, and I'm, you know, as as you know, and as I'll tell anyone who listens, I'm a huge enthusiast for psychedelics and the potential of psychedelic medicine. therapies and also just laughing till you think you're going to be sick. That's pretty good therapy as well. um
Speaker: And so i think to come all the way around, i also like source and i maybe life shouldn't be so damn serious as to just focus on mental health all day long. So I think Electric Head was something that could possibly function for both. yeah you know it's like It's kind of psychedelic, it's kind of mental and it could apply to this crazy idea source space as well. All about fine balance. Really long story. but Between ben disparate things. Yeah, thought, well, that will work for both. i don't have to make my mind up yet, you know. Yeah, because I really was to-ing and fro-ing. It was like i felt like a bit of a crossroads. I want to ah really like being a goof and giving people tasty things because I think that's just there's benefit there's so much benefit in that, just putting something positive and fun and fun.
Speaker: tangential and odd. but But that can be having, being fun and potentially be a commercial enterprise while you develop the ah the alternative medicine ah side side of Ryan. It'll help once that side's actually legal. I think that was my final decision. is Most of what I want to do here is fucking illegal. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah. Although, you know, um Australia has seen it. Things are changing. Yeah, we're the first country in the world to, on a national level, legalise psilocybin mushrooms and MDMA for very specific, very expensive treatments. But that's ah it's a good first first step. Yeah. and So yeah, sauce in the meantime at least. is this fit In the meantime, yeah. We are about to make a mushroom ketchup.
Speaker: ah You heard it here first, but everyone I've given a prototype too has gone like, just normal mushrooms. Yeah, just double checking. Of course. Also, ordinary mushrooms are fucking great. Yeah, exactly. Is that all I talk about? Damn. I feel like you may have answered this this already, but you know do you see yourself returning to beer in a any significant manner beyond, yeah know I guess, recommending the best beers in the fridge at Goodwood Cellar to people? um ah look I'll never say never.
Speaker: yeah but i i did i did have a strong feeling, I guess probably not in that capacity of of owning ah a business in the alcohol space. I felt really conflicted a lot of the time there. And I think you guys have been really good at having a chat about the the nuance and complexities around the industries.
Speaker: There's so much good that the booze industry does and the craft, especially the craft industry does. There's so much wonderful friendship and support for a lot of people comes out of it. But also in the booze industry in general, it is quite interesting.
Speaker: What goes unsaid is well. There's still a lot of joking about yeah how much we... fuck ourselves up and destroy our bodies. and Which ties into the mental health thing as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think, I mean, it's just, it's a very common topic of humor around a bar. It's like, how fucked up you were. And I don't have a lot of time for that anymore. And I just kind was kind of sick of entertaining it. So I think it would be difficult for me to just be a purely, what's the word?
Speaker: to simply be a mouthpiece for that without really going into the nuance of it. Because there is so much good to it as well. Oh, and that's one thing that keeps keep me believing in it as well. You know, it's been downturn, plateau, whatever it might be, you know, the headwinds, whatever you want to talk about for a long time now. And it's not looking like it's going to get any better in a hurry. Hopefully doesn't get much worse, you know, and any worse. But, you know, especially since we started doing the podcast and talking to all these people in depth about their stories as well as about whatever The story we want to talk to them about was, you know, there's so many incredible people doing amazing things who have probably done amazing things outside of beer or are still doing amazing things is outside of beer. The innovation, the the stuff happening, sustainability, the creativity, the desire to be amazing, the fact that, you know, the the other things that are happening around beer that are better because of it. Yeah. Like there is all this wonderful stuff and you know, you you don't want to get too caught up in in in the other parts as well. But it's but yeah, it shouldn't be at the expense of not acknowledging all those other things that are happening as well. I think to be to be very fair to the craft industry, I don't think the craft
Speaker: beer and spirits industry brought any of this baggage to it. I think it was absolutely already there. And if anything, probably a product of the extent to which ah booze in Australia back in the day had been just reduced to an industrialised sort of process and um very free of culture, free of community. It was just...
Speaker: ah product and they're all the same with different do you want to get from A to B with B being pissed yeah yeah and it was very financially um beneficial to just lean into that narrative as hard as possible you know straight this is Australia we can just get fucking shit based that's what we do you but there is yeah the other side of that coin that k craft really brought to it is showing the history of beer and the history of the public house and creating things and all the variety in it expressing yourself like getting to know people who make things and having your local community And and understand what's gone into making that product and why it's different from another one. like It was interesting. Having respect for the team. Yeah, joined this Partner of Origin Festival this year. on Last weekend, i bumped into one of the the regulars. um She was out. I would have been one of the many that actually made it every single venue. which We don't incentivize that anymore. I'm like, there's a lot of venues in only 10 days. And she was just saying that she'd been in a pub the night before where there was one of the Partner Origin venues and they were packed. And i said, oh, you know, we're normally busy on a Thursday night, but it's always busier for Partner of Origin. and then it heard but
Speaker: it's fine because everyone that does Pint of Origin is lovely. Yeah. And it's because it's like they're going out for a reason beyond just going to the pub. But, you know, there is this community side of it, but it's like they're they're bought into that concept of craft beer or good beer and exploration discoveries, even if they maybe did go to five or six bars that day. Hmm.
Speaker: There's never going to be, they didn't go out to get pissed. They go for any other reason. yeah It's like that that hasn't entered their minds to not be a nice person and appreciate people, you know. yeah And so, yeah, I think that craft does have that sort of thing innately about it. If you understand it and are into it and are interested to learn about it. think it's in the DNA of the craft movement that it is about. It's time we actually had some respect in here. It is about respect. And it's about all the stuff that we were missing out on. mean, America had it even worse, their industrialization of their thing. But I mean, as a Brit, I think you'd understand it. And as any Europeans understand coming to somewhere like Australia or America, I'm sure back in the day, they're like...
Speaker: Have you heard of beer? It's amazing. yeah you go and You just don't have it. yeah yeah You've got nothing to do with it here. Yeah, so bringing all that forth and necessarily leaning into that... um I still think it's a net positive. I'm really not to poo-poo. But if there was there is this interesting thing I remember chatting with, it was probably Adam Holliday, I think actually, another beer sales guy from from way back. Palais Imports.
Speaker: Back at Palais Imports. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then through Moondog and he was garage project in Australia for quite some time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very nice. um I remember him saying, it's very it's it's it's interesting,
Speaker: to have friends outside the industry and as oh as we all get older together you see them all steadily making these healthy decisions and having a dry july and things like that and there's this subtle obligation that we all have to continue to pretend we're 25 as we as we kicked on down the door of 40 and we're knocking on the door 50. yeah yeah Yeah. Well, I mean, and on that front as well, with with so a couple of years distance, you know, and a bit of hindsight, you know, do you look at craft beer, you know, which you were very central central to, certainly within SA, and go,
Speaker: it did these things really well did these things wrong you know could have done these things better because I guess you know this this is a chance to celebrate the things that have been done want hopefully continue but also to go up are some of those things still being done wrong and they could be fixed you know I think interestingly having some time out of it yeah it's very it's interesting to speak to all my friends who are still in the industry um It's just, there's a lot of, oh yeah, yeah, it is. It's really hard. It's really, yeah, it's been, I mean, you talk about the old days and the days when it was, oh, and it was so easy and it was positive. And there's a lot of hard graft being done and can see these people in the guts of it and suffering in it and really working their way through it.
Speaker: But um with a little bit of distance, I think it's it is actually very easy to see that, the craft beer story in Australia at least is incredibly positive still. like It's like people talk about the 60s as if they didn't achieve anything. yeah The 60s changed the fucking world, man.
Speaker: like We've changed beer for good. It's not going back. And yes, there's been a lot of challenges, as a lot of people who weren't very business savvy, ourselves included, coming into this thing and then finding themselves under the, you know,
Speaker: under the microscope and in the radar of these giant businesses who were like, no, this fucking place belongs to us. were like, we were just fucking around behind the shed over here. Oh, shit. We're really playing. And we're a threat. And we shifted the needle so hard in so many ways. I was just listening to your wonderful conversation with Demetra. I listening to that on the way here. We shifted the needle when it came to representation. There's still a lot of work to do, but my God, we're actually...
Speaker: There's actually beer adverts for women. yeah That's insane. That's never happened before in the in the history of modern adverts. you know it's um It's achieved so much. So I think it's an overwhelmingly positive story. And to to even in a business sense, I do think, yes... There was possibly a naive notion, swallowed by many, and including us to some extent, although we were always, because we were always playing with our families' houses, and possibly because our partners were also in the room, yeah and often our kids were in the room, we were a bit more fiscally conservative, I think, through our growth. We were always happy to wait another year and just kind of treat it like a family budget. We will earn a bit more before we yeah borrow and you know get too deep. um
Speaker: There were a lot of people with wide eyes and there was like a, I think a lot of the less nuanced media than than the Crafty Pint would put out the kind of articles that just seem to imply that a craft brewery just needs to reach a certain size and it's just going to be plop and there's going to be these these magical giant sales and going be there. Or there's infinite growth ahead, you know. Exactly. Well, I mean, that's the... that's the That's a popular fiction in general that we would need for things like the stock market to continue to be functional. you know Yeah, we'll grow forever. so How big is the planet? Doesn't matter. We'll grow forever. you know yeah so there there was some naivety there and people got seriously hurt. I don't want to downplay that. But I think, um I was just talking to Craig about this before, I think we have seen a really difficult time, but it's ah I think it's and it's a necessary part of a maturing industry, quite probably possibly. Not to say it's the way some of it happened. I hate to use the word necessary, you know, because people got seriously hurt. and That's never... it
Speaker: desirable but the the industry is maturing it's now in its place it has not disappeared it has corrected into something that's a bit more grown up maybe and got a couple of battle scars but it's still overwhelmingly positive and still really really good business I think in terms of no you're not you're not gonna have it in every Dan Murphy's in the in the country and We had one product nationally in Dan Murphy's for a little while. You don't want that. It's the terrible time. It's awful. indeed if you had to do a product recall from Perth. where
Speaker: um You know, and it's it's not about, yeah know like, we I think we demonstrated, like, the craft beer movement demonstrates its worth in opposition to that giant machine um with the, um what do you call it, the excise rebate or the excise, yeah threshold being lifted for small distillers and and brewers, um it does mean you can operate a business, a small local business underneath that threshold. And yes, it's not scalable if you're leaning on that.
Speaker: carve out of yeah that that tax threshold to to be your profit but if you want to make beer and work the bar with a couple of mates and have an awesome time and be an an incredible part of your community that's a really good space for that and i think that's actually it's never been better like it's just if you want to take the world by storm in a wholesale at Hard work. Have deep pockets. Yeah, and if you are halfway there when things shifted, that's really, really hard. If you're in that sort of small to middle or middle to large valley of death when everything changed, like, yuck. Yeah, yeah. Horrible. Horrible. On that positive note, let's take a short break right and come back and drill a bit deeper into the Lil Bang story, I reckon. Cool.
Speaker: Cheers. I'm sure I won't say anything untoward.
Speaker: Hey listeners, I'm once again joined by Sam Bethune, Technical Sales Specialist at Bintani and we're back with another Bintani Brewery Booster. How are you, Sam? I'm good, Will. Always a pleasure. It's great to have you back in the Crafty Pint studio once again and we're looking to talk about taking the stress out of lager. designed because lagers, as we all know, are the the hardest beer for craft brewers to perfect perfect, right? Look, I think they can be. They, it's a well-trodden line, but, you know, don't offer too many places to hide um when you're, you know, brewing or fermenting with them. So simple beers, but for most brewers and a lot of drinkers, you know, hold a special place in ah in many of our hearts and one, you know, we want to be able ah to try and get right.
Speaker: Yeah, right. And if, you know, brewers are looking to build a lager from the ground up, there's a lot of options out there, right? How do they approach Yeah, a heap of options out on the ground, I guess, from the sort of traditional German imitation sort of styles of the past of just, you know, hops, yeast, malt and water. they're the four for the rice good world. We're seeing now a lot more sort of transition into Japanese style lagers, Mexican lagers, other sort of adjunct bases with wheat or corn or rice and that sort of thing. But one thing that we've sort of seen over the last couple of years, in our sort of spot, is preuels that have been making lagers or done in the past might be looking for a different area of differentiation. And so, was yeah, keen to sort of touch on today from Vyman's range, a huge range of their heritage malt sort of lines that um that we have on offer. so from Azaria 1924 to Ereclaya Pils and Barkay Pils and Floor Malted Bohemian Malts. If there's a you know beer recipe or anything you've got in mind, particularly coming up to Oktoberfest or anything later in the year, some of the these heritage malts just offer such a wealth of flavour and can make these beers absolutely sort of shine. So yeah, don't forget, while all Pilsner malt is Pilsner malt, it certainly doesn't all or taste or or present the same.
Speaker: Yeah, and do you need to sort of pair them with certain yeasts or anything like that? Because that's a broad story as well. It is ah is a story. there's I guess within Australian context, within both ales and lagers, there's been a large sort of tendency over the last few years towards neutral strains in ales and lagers. From lagers, particularly with the larger breweries, we know that, you know, ester profile, bitterness profile, these things is particularly important. And a lot of the larger brewers obviously have their own house strains and things that they hold to their and hold to their chest as tightly as possible. I'd really encourage brewers to experiment with lager strains as more have come onto the market. For ourselves within Bintani, we've now got five strains within Fermentis' portfolio. A couple of new ones, e thirty which is emphasising a more fruity sort of profile to lagers, and SH45, which unlocks the bound thiol potential from a number of hops to sort of differentiate lagers out, still in a neutral sort of space, but push them into other directions that can yeah really make your beer stand out.
Speaker: Yeah, and of course, lagers might be all about yeast, but they're not just about yeast because hops are also important as well. What about how do hops play a role? Yeah, hops play a hugely important role, and I think for any of us, you know, drinking or wanting to make better lagers, we have to think about where they're sourced, be they traditional sort of style lagers, more fruity, floral, that sort of thing. um For anyone considering, obviously, the German sort of hop profiles are are great for their heritage and history. We're seeing a lot of New World lagers come out, a lot more sort of fruity and floral, but... A point that we were sort of looking to sort of ah get on today was some of the newer varieties, particularly from the New Zealand front, that have some of these unique characteristics in bred from European derivatives, such as Wai'ichi and Wakatu hops that add a beautiful floral intensity to some of these lager flavours and might give you something unique that you hadn't considered before.
Speaker: Awesome. Thanks so much, Sam. Thank you.
Speaker: Ryan, welcome back. I guess in many ways, like Little Bang, I was sort of touched upon it before about how you're almost the essence of craft beer person. But I guess Little Bang was almost like the archetypal story as well. Like two mates started out making beer in a garage where think used to say like, you couldn't move past each other without sort of rubbing against each other, it was that tight. you know, move to a bigger place, bigger and bigger. But I think also, you know, any upsetting, but it was, what was actually like sort being in the middle of that? when you talked about before how coming out of you like an empty husk, but you know, how was it, what was it like? I was a completely empty husk. I was going to say I was a completely empty husk. No, well, the title of this podcast is going to be becoming an empty husk. Well, that could lead into Buddhism and mindfulness, which is something that I'm also very fond of. If anything, better at being an empty husk now. But essentially, what was it?
Speaker: For you and Phil being like in the middle of that thing, and you know especially in SA, there were other craft brews beforehand, but I think you sort of really encapsulated what that sort of modern onwards sort of craft beer essence was.
Speaker: Yeah, it was um well, we had a bit of a ah a buffer there in in terms of we were both already working kind of beer adjacently, which was great. You know, I do think ah you really need to focus on your strengths when you're coming into competitive world of business. And so i already was selling beer Palais Imports and then Pirate Life later and and north down and stuff like that. And Phil was a refrigeration mechanic working in every other pub in town. So he'd be fixing tap systems. And so in a way, us brewing beer together on the side, we had the perfect audience of people to sort of try it out on. And they it didn't take long before every pub Phil went went into or I went into, they're like, how's ah so hows your beer going? you'reating the other You're making any more crazy shit.
Speaker: And so were both perfectly happy in our gigs the way we had them. And we actually just thought, well, you know, we were really into, you know, I was working for an importer. So we had access to American beers, these Belgian beers, you know, all this cool. when you unibrow Yeah. You know, I was the other beer, beer, beer, beer. Yeah. Beautiful.
Speaker: but yeah a canteon will bring canon via phoenix beers as well uh american stuff yeah and so it was like we were looking around and it's like yeah adelaide no one's made of barley wine in adelaide yet i don't think there's a saison out there yet so we're just like well let's just keep our jobs but we'll just license the shed as a commercial beer facility just do that a year and a half later of just red tape hell, but just doggedly doing it, we did manage to just get the producer's license for full shed and just drop kegs out there. The idea was we'll just sort of mess up the environment, be these It was like pure ego, really. We're just going to drop our little commentary on ah we'll be the weird ones and we don't need to make any money, you know, and that sort of thing. So it kept the initial idea very pure. It was just what we really, really wanted to do we had We had a fallback plan. We had automatic confidence because it wasn't our lives on the line. It wasn't our houses on the line yet And so that was just this idea was that we just get together every Sunday and make stuff we muck around with convinced our beautiful patient partners that we'll make a bit of money out of it. It'll pay for itself yeah ish, um, like a hobby that will pay for itself. So, um, we could just be completely authentic. We, and we could deliberately be as weird as possible because another thing we were, um, quite adamant about, and I would certainly adamant about was, um,
Speaker: i just like for a marketing person i hate advertising like it makes me feel sick to my core most advertising makes me just feel just existential hole in the world that i hate it i hate i think it's it's one of the worst things in the world child of the 90s who would guess you know yeah um yeah what was it i think it's walter chrysler said um give the hardest job to the laziest man and he'll find the most efficient way to do it. Like, I think this is like give marketing and branding to people that fucking hate marketing and branding and maybe they'll do it a bit different. So we were just deliberately obscure, always tongue in cheek, taking the piss out of,
Speaker: not only normal beer branding, but like, you know, when we did Schwang, you know, that was like meant to be like some takeoff on Sunkist on, I think it was Sunkist on steroids. I think it was more we't like, yeah. um Always commentary. So we had that confidence because we had the fallback and i then I guess what we just didn't expect was for that to really strike a chord and instantly and very quickly gained a lot of interest. um mean Do you think that that was it that that captured the the struggle capture attention? Was it the fact that liquor was different or was it more that there was just this irreverent thing that was suddenly appearing around the traps? Well, it's part of it's part of what I really appreciate and this is, you know,
Speaker: I've put all the caveats in that it was easy for us to be like this so I don't have to feel embarrassed about it but it's authenticity is what it is it's genuinely being a genuine self and a tremendous luck to be doing it exactly the moment that we were doing it like we always at the time thought we we wished we were there two years earlier as you always do but um I think it was absolutely perfect like luck plays a huge huge role in and and And it was just having it land at the right moment and then being fed that confidence of people actually responding to it. and like It's too many times been like, they want more. What? i but but But even as the business grew yeah know to the first you know bigger but but yeah dedicated brewery and then to Stepney, like the irreverence, the you know the the fun labels the the silly names the in jokes the daft like you know the daft commentary on the labels whatever like that stayed you know there'd be some occasional forays into more so you know here's a pale ale whatever yeah but but it but it did remain dark time as used if people watching you on youtube you see my face grim as i even mentioned that but um but i think ah that was the hardest hardest product development
Speaker: ever done was the most sensible looking one. But in terms of that, you know do you you mean that that was I guess you yeah both of you would have been involved, but I think that was kind of became um more so more your part of things. I mean, do you think obviously that was part of Little Bang? And do you think you know what do you think that's sort of important, that reverence and fun is is a key part of craft beer? And is it is it something that you think is still relevant today? you know We talked the first half about the industry i'd love to see growing up. but I'd love to see more of it. Yeah. It doesn't have to be a reverent. You can have all the reverents. You can be like... um Reverend Plum? A what?
Speaker: it but louis Was it Professor Plum, Reverend Green? like I can't remember.
Speaker: Is there a plum beer I haven't had? A famous plum beer? Anyway, all the reverents, yes. You can still be very reverent, but I think... yeah that there's a there's a genuineness to it and um and an understanding that in your, an understanding that in your branding, I accidentally rhyming and now I'm just flying off. that i Get back on point, Ryan. An understanding that you are, to think about it more as art than than as a marketing, and this sounds really pretentious, but it it is you communicating to another human being, yet you are not trying to,
Speaker: aggregate data into a fucking demographic is you speaking to someone yeah and people aren't fucking dumb even if it's deliberately confusing some people just appreciate the fact that it's confusing i love the fact that people pick it up and go i don't even know what this is like i'll take three you know yeah um yeah um So that authenticity, yes, I think we did understand and we were very much reinforced to that. That's a really important part of it. The tough part is once you do have all your money on the line and you are and you are up all night wondering about the least creative things in the world in a business,
Speaker: remain fun and authentic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. where where where where Where's the well of, you know, fun and creative? it exist like When it's been pushed out by the things. Sometimes wish I could have trained an AI on myself when I actually felt creative and just go... to just Creative me, what should I do? Yeah, can you be Ryan of 2018, please? That's what I was saying. it What would Ryan say if he was here?
Speaker: and That's the hard part. That's the hard part. But honestly, you know. I guess the wider thing being, for you, it was, you know, it was irreverence and it was fun and it might have been in joke. It said that... you if if someone went to the bar they could find out what the real story behind this beer name was or whatever yeah yeah but for other people it's just be who you are and be who you are and make sure you tell that to people so yeah they can have some understanding whether they meet you or not but that the essence of it being yes true to yourself yeah well i think that's your business part of being small too is um understanding that coming from a background in sales understanding the value of having a human to human contact in stores like having a rep in a state means a lot for that your brand in that state you can have all the marketing push you like but if you don't have a a guy that they want to see in the bottle shop a person they want to see in the bottle shop there are plenty of great beer gals as well or beer neutral identities i don't you know i i don't know beer everything yes just as long as it's beer uh
Speaker: or soft drinks shit fallen into a well of second guessing anyway um that that but they they have to be able to understand and tell your human to human contact you know there's plenty of good products out there the way a bottle shop decides what they want is who do i want walking through my door every couple of weeks you know who do i want to see if they're okay and if i don't see anyone at all Let's talk about so but understanding that each of our products in places that we don't have representation because we're a tiny little brand need to be speaking from the shelf. We need to have that little bit of personality, try to put a genuine bit of personality into it. um
Speaker: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I do think and and I hope we continue to see it. I hope hope people don't feel the pressure to be more normal in order to succeed because i think that's the opposite in small yes if you're in very very large you look at broad democratic demographic data yes you aggregate color preferences and eyeball data from where it needs to be on the shelf and get your lawyers to contract that your brand needs to be here and this widen that sort of awful degrading dystopian shit but at the small scale yes it's i think no lean into being more different and it got i where it got real the time where it got real was when nepa blew up when hazies happened everywhere and um that pressure was really felt that i think it was a thing we hadn't seen yet there was a lot of individuality in old breweries and then suddenly everyone made nepers Everyone's making a neighbor. Everyone's making a neighbor. And you know you you made 12,000 of them. Correct. That was kind of the point.
Speaker: More neighbor equals good neighbor, clearly. But that was where you really felt the pressure and you could see it happening. What's the word? ah homogenizing force a generic applying force where everyone has a hazy but we a lot of us took offense at the time especially phil i think i i think we were just looking at purchasing a centrifuge just at that time and he was like and i know red from pirate life as well he took a long time he was like
Speaker: we're not making a beer that's not going through that fucking fuse. I don't care what you say. And so he made it unfazed by the haze. I was talking about that with Matty at Pirate Life yesterday, about unfazed by the haze, being there, clear, hazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. they still got write hazy on the cans. Because it it wasn't that all your fans turned on them and what did they all do? It's just all the new people coming in. What's interesting is well you know we're now um you know so many years old, probably not even far off a decade from that time. Yeah. And...
Speaker: hazy IPAs are still like selling hazy pails like if you if you are you know looking for something that's gonna sell just through batches quickly as opposed to perhaps being a hero product make a decent hazy IPA make it isn't hazy pal it's still bang bang bang you know its san boltter and they did a lot of good work they really got approachable hazy just all out of the front yeah Jade from the weas got a great story i don't know if she's done with you before I'll tell Jade's story um The Wheat Sheaf Hotel, greatest craft beer pub in the world. I'm slightly biased, but yeah. um
Speaker: Had a tradie come in one day, look at all the taps and go, oh, look, I'm sorry. i't I'm not used to these kind of places. if you guys just got something normal like a hazy? know And Jade was just like, this guy just said, I'm not a craft beer person. Have you got something normal, yeah you know, a hazy? was like, fuck.
Speaker: We've won. We've done it. We've done it. Yeah, the needle is officially she's like no, but I have a smoked Polish sour. And and I have ah an apricot saison that I through my footer. Oyster stout running through real oysters. Exactly.
Speaker: um Good stuff. Well, and I guess sort of to tie things up, it's a little bang nature. You know you did make and ah heaps of beers, not just the 12,000 hazies. um was there ever yeah know you Looking back now, was there a a beer, whether the liquid or the name or the whole package that you were like,
Speaker: that brought me so much happiness and joy and silliness. You know, the one that you kind of, that was that that was peak Ryan before his creativity dried up and he became with a bitter, bitter hot sauce making man. Yeah. I didn't say husk. Not husk.
Speaker: You're still a man to me. Much more enlivened and creative these days, actually. Less stress, probably. No, I think this is a good advert for why people should come on the Crafty Pint podcast or maybe why Will should be next to me. Yeah. yeah Maybe this wouldn't happen if Will was next to me. But come on and I'll yeah leave you feeling a bit sutter about yourself. Yeah.
Speaker: at least maybe questioning things maybe I'm not alright it's tough to say most proud of We did cold IPA called Zero Kelvin. Cold IPA was a thing for about 27 minutes and I loved it. was so good. um fills and it's just it's just a really hoppy lager, essentially, strong hoppy lager. Phil made this thing that was just amazing.
Speaker: crackcklingly dry It's like this ultimate expression of like West Coast IPA. So dry, so bitter, so aromatic and gorgeous. And Matt's artwork just blew my mind. He absolutely had jaws on the floor for that. um But in terms of in the business, things that I'm probably most proud of, I think would be being the first brewery to get frontal male nudity on the shelves at Dan Murphy's. That felt like a... With your naked objective. Yeah, yeah. I remember talking to ABAC.
Speaker: You have to get ABAC pre-approval. people watching this know what ABAC is, the Advertising Standards for Alcohol. um You have to get pre-approval from ABAC in order to put things into Endeavour places. am So during that process, we submitted a few things, Naked Objector included, fully expecting like, ah this is just a waste of time. But Endeavour guys that we spoke to were interested in this and this and this.
Speaker: and um talking to one of the abac lawyers him saying like yeah look we've got an issue with naked ejector i was like yeah yeah yeah he was like he's holding a beer bottle and and he's clearly angry so um that is anti-social behavior in the presence of alcohol which we can't have know and i was like And? Yeah, yeah. like But the genitals are okay. That's it? you know it was like And I was like, so if we take the bottle out of his hand, we're butre all right. He's like, I think we're pretty good. to
Speaker: Nothing about the cock. Two cocks per can, too. There's a more cock around the side. And I was like, yes. Best 500 bureaucratic dollars we ever spent was that pre-approval thing. And like, holy shit. Yeah, yeah. and what better way to bring the curtain down on this immensely insightful and wonderful podcast episode. Ryan, thanks so much for joining me. It's been an unalloyed delight, as it always is.
Speaker: Thank you, my friend. Cheers. It's been really lovely. Yes, thanks.
Speaker: Tickets for Bendigo on the Hop, one of Australia's most unique beer festivals, are almost sold out. Every year, indie brewers from across the country flock to Bendigo to pour their beers at bars, pubs, cafes and restaurants, all within the centre of this beautiful regional Victorian town.
Speaker: For thousands of beer lovers, it's a chance to wander the town, soak up the vibe and enjoy great beers, delicious food and entertainment. This year boasts one of the best brewery lineups yet, including welcoming international breweries, Garage Project and Behemoth to the festival for the very first time.
Speaker: Six of the nine starting venues are already sold out. Remaining tickets are available for the Festival Hub, Black Swan and Sound Music Bar. Visit bendigobeer.com forward slash B-O-T-H hyphen 2026 and book now before they're all gone.
Speaker: That's bendigobeer.com forward slash B-O-T-H hyphen 2026.
Speaker: Attention brewers, one of Australia's favourite beer festivals, Crafted Festival, is taking over the East Coast from September to November with events on the Gold Coast, Newcastle and Melbourne.
Speaker: Get your beers and brand in front of thousands of beer lovers as they soak up the sun, live bands, delicious food and plenty of fun games. First up is Gold Coast on 12th of September.
Speaker: Newcastle comes alive on 7th of November and then Melbourne to bring it home on twenty first of November. Final exhibitor placements are now available for all locations.
Speaker: Get in touch with the Crafted crew on info at craftedfestival.com.au. That's info at craftedfestival.com.au to find out more.
Speaker: The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
Speaker: We wouldn't be able to produce the podcast or the website, the events or festivals we run without the support of the beer industry, whether that's suppliers, bars, breweries or bottle shops. If you'd like to support the show or partner with The Crafty Pine in other ways, please reach out to Craig via the details in the show notes.
Speaker: And if you're a beer lover who'd like to support what we do, you can join our exclusive club for beer lovers, The Crafty Cabal. Visit craftycabal.com for more. And until next time, drink good beer.
