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Brenna Quinlan’s 10 Foundations of an F YEAH! Existence
681 Plays11 days ago
You already know today's guest. You’ve admired her art, chortled at her pithy permaculture puns and perhaps even listened to her rhyme along with Formidable Vegetable, those eco-funk, full of beans, electro-radish rockers.
It's the perennially brilliant Brenna Quinlan! Illustrator and educator who brandishes her watercolour brushes at the world’s gnarliest problems, and paints beautiful alternatives.
In this convo:
🪺 All about Brenna & Charlie’s three year build.
🪺 The stories in the walls of their strawbale home.
🪺 Intentional community living.
🪺 Teasing out the finer strands of what brings you joy in groups, work, life.
🪺 What’s next for Brenna?
🪺 Brenna's 10 things! Not gonna tell you what they are.
🧙♀️ LINKY POOS
Grow Do It ~ Permaculture + Sustainability Education
[COMING SOON] Costa’s Garden ~ Costa Georgiadis & Brenna Quinlan
Goodies Farm ~ Straw farmer
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to New Season
00:00:03
Speaker
Hey, ha this is Katie, and you're tuned into a brand new season of Resculience, still beaming to you from beautiful Jara country in central Victoria, where I'm lucky enough to be recording this outside, sitting on the grass, listening to the begging of baby magpies and the occasional explosive sneeze from the next door neighbour.
00:00:29
Speaker
The air is thick with springtime allergens. I'm very excited to be hanging out with you for another round of reskillient interviews, but this time we've got a bit of a different format.
Creative Lists and Patreon
00:00:41
Speaker
I don't know about you, but I'm a massive fan of lists, even though at face value they can seem kind of reductive.
00:00:48
Speaker
In practice I find them to really foster creative and non-linear thinking, an unapologetic getting to the point that meandering conversations sometimes miss, and they're quite a tasty snack for folks like me who struggle with focus.
00:01:03
Speaker
So I reached out to a bunch of dream guests, many of whom will need no introduction, and politely asked them to cook up a list of ten things. Be they questions, suggestions, actions or experiments that might come in handy while we're collectively making some version of New Year's resolutions.
00:01:21
Speaker
Because there are roughly 10 weeks till 2025 and 10 guest slots, that means there's going to be 100 magical prompts coming your way throughout this season. So before I introduce today's guest, I'd like to give a shout out to my peeps on Patreon who are paying to listen to the show.
00:01:39
Speaker
Beyond the hugely appreciative feelings that this inspires, the reality is that a small monthly contribution from enough listeners makes this podcast sustainable and resilient for me to continue producing on my own, without ever needing to resort to ads for home insurance or temperature regulated underwear. So, a huge thank you to the 30 plus paying members of the Resculience Posse on Patreon, who are putting a little bit of money where their ears are,
00:02:04
Speaker
And if you'd like to too, you can join them at patreon dot.com forward slash reskillience. But also, don't feel bad if you can't afford to do that right now because times are crazy tight. Simply listening, sharing it with a friend, or leaving a sizzling review on iTunes is bloody wonderful too. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to do that.
Meet Brenna Quinlan
00:02:25
Speaker
Alright, let's get to today's delightful and delicious guest.
00:02:30
Speaker
You already know her. You've admired her art, choddled at her pithy permaculture puns, and perhaps even listened to her rhyme, along with formidable vegetable, those eco-funk, full of beans, electro radish rockers. Today we have the immense good fortune of hanging out with Brenna Quinlan, illustrator and educator who brandishes her watercolour brushes at the world's gnarliest problems and paints beautiful alternatives.
00:02:55
Speaker
I've long admired, slash, felt a friendly level of envy over Brenna's fusion of activism and art, and I know so many of you draw not just information, but inspiration from her way of being in the world too.
00:03:09
Speaker
I feel like I've been keeping an interview with Brenna in my back pocket because of course she is one of permaculture and sustainability's most lively and lovely spokespeople, so we were always gonna chat on the airwaves eventually. And I'm really glad that this conversation fell into place when it did because Brenna's list of 10 things is just as sweet and creative as you'd expect from such a person. Alrighty, here it is, the first episode of the season with the perennially brilliant Brenna Quinlan.
Building a Straw Bale Home
00:03:37
Speaker
I mean, essentially, I would love to hear what you're up to and how you are. And the listeners can just eavesdrop on our overdue catch up because I have no idea what's going on in your life right now. Well, it's an exciting stage at the moment. For the last three and a half years, I've been building a straw bough home and my partner Charlie and I have just moved in a couple months ago. So we're entering a new phase of not ah frequenting hardware stores for obscure types of hinges and holding up um windows for carpenters to screw them in place and just that sort of daily fun that has been my entire existence for so long. So um um I feel like a flower emerging, you know, soon I'll be in creative space and ah back to
00:04:29
Speaker
feeling a bit more like myself and a bit ah less far outside ah the old comfort zone. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's massive Brenna. Congratulations. Like what a huge undertaking. And I can imagine that siphons off a large percentage of your energy creative and otherwise. Like have you been able to practice in the same way that is ideal or feels good for you over this time? Or have you just had to compartmentalize your art and kind of shove it to one side as you deal with the nuts and bolts of the build. I think you know it doesn't often come naturally to us to have to go from one headspace to another and I was quite challenged by that at the start. you know If you're outside and there's a team of carpenters and you're kind of in that zone and then you know you've got
00:05:19
Speaker
ah Zoom call or a book to illustrate or something you've got to then shift gears quite rapidly and sometimes you're illustrating the book and then you're shifting gears constantly um when as as the tradies need you. ah But I got really good at it over time so I've just illustrated a children's book with Costa Georgiadis from Gardening Australia and I did that in our house truck during Denmark's, Denmark, the town where I live in Western Australia, ah music festival. So there were 10 musicians eating chicken and soup in our house truck, our what our one room, two metre by six metre house truck. And I was up there sketching out the storyboard ah this for book with earplugs in, just being part of the vibe, you know, I'm along for the journey, we're building, I have nowhere else to go and I am
00:06:12
Speaker
here on festival weekend. So that was kind of the peak of crazy. And I thought I did a pretty good job of getting through that situation. Yeah, you have to be such a weird in this world. Don't you like able to work in the gaps with the minimum substrate? Yeah, I like that analogy actually. Yeah. and and And you know, having what while any big project is taking place, you do need a foot in the real world. So what's for dinner and if you garden like how is that going and if you have family meeting their needs if you have a partner meeting their needs meeting your own needs keeping your job going if it's an expensive project like house building you've got to keep doing that and I guess house building is quite unique because you're doing all that stuff on this big project
00:07:00
Speaker
without, um I don't know, mod cons like a table or ah reliable internet or a shower that works or running water. I think it's um it's a real humbling experience and people who've renovated long-term or built something would know what that's like. It really changes your outlook on comfort and need and ah and And also what you're capable of, I guess. Because it persist is such a long-term thing. So I'm clearly still reeling from it because it's all I talk about. I'm in the house now. I have a shelf to put my ferments on. What luxury. I have a table to... You know, I'm sitting at a desk right now. Can you believe it? Yeah, I know. It's how far you can eke out that delicious contrast as well from you from when you moved to a one.
00:07:54
Speaker
gnarly situation into a relative lap of luxury, your own home with a desk and a shelf for your ferments. We had a series of busy bees to build our home because our home is made out of clay and straw, with various manifestations of that. And so we had a whole bunch of lovely people come around last summer to help out. And so to cook for everybody, I would get my my neighbour's slow cooker and I'd put stuff in it. And then I'd walk to my other neighbor's house and on top of her washing machine, I could plug in the slow cooker there. um But I had to ask her not to use a washing machine that day because the slow cooker would fall off as we found out if the washing machine went on the spin cycle. And then you have 15 people that don't have any one. So it was just full of fun times like that really. Now I just have a slow cooker into a power point at work.
00:08:48
Speaker
Oh my god, I love the idea of having like a shaken not stirred casserole. Here's a spoon everyone and there's the floor.
00:09:00
Speaker
Oh, I'm actually really chuffed that you're in the zone and in the mood to talk about
Sustainable Building Practices
00:09:05
Speaker
the house. Yeah, Jordan and I are going to be doing a tiny build coming up and there's just like so many things that I'm discovering that are yeah, coming up as we go through that process. So hearing from you a little bit about that journey at the top of this conversation, obviously suits me just great. But I think that listeners would be really curious as well. And I know you have been posting that process on Instagram too, and it's really fun to follow along. But maybe Bren, like just if you could offer a bit of a summary of how you've permaculturified that building process, like you mentioned the expense
00:09:41
Speaker
And, um, you know, the challenges that come with especially having other people involved, other paid people involved in the project and all of those choices that you're making that are gonna, you know, pattern your life into the future. Like, are there big things that stand out to you? Choices that you've made that are really in line with permaculture principles and ethics that maybe could have gone a different way if you didn't have that investment in permaculture thinking. Oh, yeah. So I think, uh, um,
00:10:10
Speaker
I think it started at the design phase of the house build. So as well as being an artist and illustrator, I also teach permaculture design courses. And for those who aren't familiar with those, it's a two week long, often two week long, but you can do it over part time, over a longer period of time course, which is quite a transformative experience for people. And you're learning about all aspects of, I guess, sustainable or regenerative living. So,
00:10:36
Speaker
You're learning about um ethical economics and you're learning about food systems, you're learning about communities, you're learning about communication and and appropriate technologies to use. Permaculture's got quite a broad scope.
00:10:52
Speaker
and part of That course is learning about design thinking. So I've been teaching this stuff for years. And when it came to designing my home, I knew I wanted big windows facing north so I can get winter sun in, but I'll have shade around so I can shade out summer sun. And I want a home that's well insulated so that it's comfortable year round, but that has thermal mass inside. and Thermal mass takes a form of in in housing, a concrete slab or a brick or a mud brick.
00:11:20
Speaker
or a cob interior wall, something that evens out those peaks and troughs of temperature that more lightweight buildings tend to have. So but but I got to design my own home, which was really cool. And ah some have tried and failed, but we've tested this one out that seems to be working well so far. And then the materials that we chose to use were as natural and as secondhand ah we could make them. So there's a house that was being built up the road and it was built very quickly in about six months out of industrial materials. And this home took a bit longer. It was probably a couple years if you take out the time that I was away working
00:12:07
Speaker
to keep the build going financially. And that's because we chose to build with straw bales. So our friends at Goodies Farm in Kendenup, 30 kilometres down the road, grew a field of wheat just for us. And they cared for it and they sung to it and they put some amazing organic high silica or something or other spray on there. So it was the strongest straw bale they'd ever made. And we actually went to the farm just on Boxing Day 2023 and picked up a huge truck full of bales as they were coming out of the field. So right now, when I bake bread from their flour, if I use wheat from their flour, I'm eating bread that's made from the same wheat as our home, which is really lovely. So that connection to materials, having them local, having them, you know, ah straw is kind of a waste product of wheat production. So we were using something that would
00:13:05
Speaker
you know, that otherwise is used as mulch, or store finds its uses as a waste product. We're not using new materials. They're a renewable resource. And at the end of our building's life, it's almost fully compostable, which is a pretty lovely thing. We've also tried to build it well, so it won't have to be composted. No one wants to think of their lovely home as um ending up as a pile of mulch, but I guess that's not such a bad thing. And then I guess the clay as well that we've used was from our own site. So that has neuromiles attached to it. We dug it up and mixed it with water and hand by a loving hand applied it to the walls as render and as that very handy thermal map. So the the whole process I guess was
00:13:56
Speaker
supporting local tradies where there were things that needed to be done to spec and properly ah because we want a home that is going to be around in many years. So stuff like the framing of timbers and stuff. we had We had a cool team that was helping us out with that. And these were guys that were really happy to work with recycled timbers and bush poles that we rescued from some old wheat belt farmer's firewood pile and old Jarrah beams that were sitting around in some guy's shed and we've kind of taken all these twisted and gnarly bits of wood and planed them up and sanded them and oiled them and made them into window frames and door frames and scholars and then all the things we could do ourselves, we we brought in other people. So putting out the straw-bell walls and the lighter walls and putting on the render. There's a big kind of festival atmosphere here getting the house done.
00:14:51
Speaker
And even children have helped out. out One of our neighbours was like six years old and she'd come down every day to put some handfuls of mud in her special piece of wall. So that wall behind, in our kitchen, with Lyra's wall, she she made that herself. It's a really special thing. It doesn't happen often in, you know, regular build sites.
00:15:12
Speaker
Oh man, I mean, despite the fact that your house isn't gluten free, I fully respect those intentional choices and those storyful elements that you've woven into the build. Like that is so inspiring and brilliant to hear. Thank you for sharing those snippets with us.
Living in a Permaculture Community
00:15:29
Speaker
And I wonder Brenner, if you could paint a bit of a broader picture of where You're going to be living where you're situated, like the land, the country that you're on, some of the characteristics of the place that you've chosen to call home. Yeah, so we live in Pibbulbun, Manang, Buja. So that's right at the southernmost point of Western Australia. We're about a five hour drive from Perth. ah And it is very special country, very distinct from Perth on a climate level. So we have a really ocean dominated climate.
00:16:03
Speaker
being on the south, kind of like Tassie, yeah. We have big winds and big storms and then beautiful, beautiful, like right now in spring, the temperature is just perfect every day, you know, like t-shirt weather, but you're not hot, but you're not cold.
00:16:19
Speaker
And because of that unique climate, we're a biodiversity hotspot. We have more variety of flowering plants here than anywhere in the world. And huge carry trees that are just straight and tall. And in some seasons they're silver and in other seasons they're pink. And they they kind of, you know how they say nature inspires ore. When you see a carry tree, you look up because they're so tall, just magnificent for us here.
00:16:47
Speaker
so We've got the ocean, we've got the forest, that's what this area is known for. And where my little home is, is actually inside a permaculture community. Oh my goodness, these things exist.
00:17:01
Speaker
So the old boy, David Coleman, who started this up, he was a permaculture fanatic and he was an anti-forestry activist and he was a big personality and he put in process this subdivision of what was until then his permaculture property. And he passed away before it was finished, but some people living here finished the subdivision process and then people like us bought blocks well ah ah very cheap because apparently nobody wants to live in community. Except crazy people like me. um And so now all the blocks have been sold. There are 18 lot holders here. We care take 60 acres of Carrie, Mary and Jarrah forest in common, which means we have to get along with each other. So we've, we've but learning all these skills about, you know, curiosity and conflict resolution and but we use sociocracy as our governance structure here. And it's actually, you know, if you're interested in people and you enjoy people, which I thoroughly do, it is such a magnificent place.
00:18:15
Speaker
like we're getting ready for fire season right now and every night this week we're having a different bonfire at a different zone of the community and then everyone shows up and the kids are having a great time and we're just like the the the work of cleaning up dead branches and chainsawing up fallen trees, that sort of thing could be really tedious, but we make it really fun and there's music going and we'll all share a meal and it's show up if you feel like it sort of community. so
00:18:46
Speaker
I love that there's never any pressure to do stuff like that. um Yeah, I really love this place like, you know, neighbors just turn up and everyone's been so happy for us that we're in our home and I swap veggies for eggs every Monday with somebody and then teenagers that we, you know, hang out with and everyone helped us build our home. and one guy does a pizza night once a month and just puts on like a full spread and you know that there's going to be musicians showing up so there'll be music late into the night there but the start of it will be all the kids hanging around and it's like knowing your neighbours on that deep level it's kind of if you've ever lived in a share house you you know you get a deep connection with people just because you live in proximity and you have shared spaces so moving in here we we kind of felt that family bond or that share house
00:19:37
Speaker
bond really quickly with people. And we don't all agree on everything. We're not all the same. But that's okay. We're like a microcosm of the broader society. So we we know how to respect each other. We know how to have fun together. And we've got that permaculture, the three ethics, EarthCare People Care and FairShare are actually in our legal bylaws. So we've all got that common purpose. We're all trying to make the world a better place. We're all interested in community.
00:20:07
Speaker
bunch of people garden a bunch of people have made like funky houses or you know they're in the process of that kids are amazing so it's a very it's a special community within a very special town within a very special region of Australia
00:20:23
Speaker
oh Beautiful, vivid imagery and yeah, what a glorious picture. And I was just thinking that it was probably a few years ago that we spoke on the Future's Dating podcast and I reckon you were just embarking on this and you hadn't long been in that community and were speaking about some of those systems and um like group mechanics and dynamics that you were going to be leaning on to be together and functional. And yeah, I'm really heartened to hear that it is, it's sounding really harmonious. um Are there any things that you've refined in that time that you've been there, Bren, like new additions or concepts that are proving really effective or things that haven't worked? Can you share any of that side of the picture?
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the biggest learnings for me recently and it's applicable to people who are in any sort of group, whether you're on the school committee or, you know, a workplace group, something like that. It's really leaning into what brings you joy in that group.
00:21:30
Speaker
So my tendency is, you know, we we came to this community community and I said, all right, there's no group chat. Let's make a signal chat. Okay, now we've got that. Where are the community meetings? We need to do that. All right. And then you start, if you're a personality type like mine, I guess you start organizing everything and then you end up the only one organizing everything by your own doing. um and It's good for a while and then you get tired. um And so What I found recently is that there are parts, there are things in this particular group of people that I really love. So I love, I think it's important to have a strong facilitator at a community meeting, but I don't really enjoy being that person. I can do a pretty good job of it. I'm trained as a facilitator, but it doesn't make me come alive. But what I love doing,
00:22:26
Speaker
is training somebody else and being there with them as support while they facilitate the meeting. So we've kind of changed that and then someone gets three, like three goes of being facilitator and then we'll switch to someone else. So it's not too onerous and everyone really gets a taste of what it is like to be holding that space and the awareness of time and, you know, cutting having to redirect the conversation back to what, you know, what the plan is, that sort of stuff.
Community Involvement and Personal Growth
00:22:56
Speaker
And I've also realized that like we organize a lot of busy bees. Um, but we'll clean up around an area or, you know, fixing up a building or like fire safety stuff. I don't really love them, but I really love organizing them, getting people to show up. I don't know why I don't love them. I think it's cause our block itself requires a lot of busy bee energy from me. Um, so I don't really want to be doing that in some other place on a Sunday.
00:23:24
Speaker
But so I can work behind the scenes, which is a job that needs to be done. And other people who really, their true contribution to this community is to show up with the whipper sniffer and and this the drill and screws and fix the thing and cut the grass. And that's what makes them come alive. And so being more transparent about that, I don't feel any more that I have to do every role, but also seeing what roles are vacant that I enjoy.
00:23:55
Speaker
um that really helps. So it's it's almost, you know, that conversation around personal boundaries, what does work for you and what doesn't. And I think in any group situation, if you're in a role, like I was as facilitator, even if you're a good at it, and it needs to happen, how, if you're not happy with it, how can you make it work on a different level? How can you step aside and help someone else step up?
00:24:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's been a big, you know, communities teach you a lot. ah There's no end to what you can learn in a space like this. Totally, totally. And that is a little seam of gold that you've tapped into there, like leaning into what lights you up. Yeah, it's something I think we're all thinking a lot about, right? Because it's such frantic times, you've got to run your own business and then have a side hustle and then be really good at TikTok and you don't really care about it, but you've got to and you've got to have the perfect family and the fitness regime and all the things just impossible to keep up. So I'm constantly thinking, okay, you know, how, like I'm quite, uh, my partner says I'm to a fault analytical and pragmatic about things. Like, I love stepping back and saying, okay.
00:25:11
Speaker
What, like, give me clarity. What is actually happening in my life? Is it working for me? And is it working for my purpose? Because I think having a purpose is quite a healthy thing, particularly in such challenging times. So, you know, I have friends and family who are so in the struggle of daily life that they can't do that step back and see things with clarity.
00:25:38
Speaker
and I think it's a really hard cycle to be in. I've been in it as well at a bunch of points in my life and you're that tired and strapped for time and you find yourself making all these compromises on your food choices and you're you stop walking to work or biking to work because you're late and you're tired and so you start you know taking the car again and you thought you got past that and then oh there's no time to organise the kids costumes for Halloween so it's just buy a thing because it is easy and it's so cheap and you know that's that kind of spiral where it's like I've got a drawing about it the catch 22 of modern living you the more you work the more stressed you are so the more you have to work because then you need to eat more takeout and you need to it just kind of it gets hard and it feels like there's no way out
00:26:30
Speaker
But I have seen in my life and in some of some of my friends recently have but somehow, you know, whether it's just putting in, just breathe and pause in your calendar or whether it's canceling something you had agreed to but aren't really that keen on and then using that time. Find yourself like a little space of time and That is how you can step back and gain some perspective. like Ask yourself these questions. What is working for me? what What's not working for me? Where do I want to be? What is my purpose? Am I heading towards that? You know, I've had like an interesting relationship with permaculture teaching because there is a huge sunk cost in that profession for me, as in I have spent years
00:27:28
Speaker
using almost every waking moment of my life, learning all of the things so that I can show up and be the best teacher that I feel I can be. But it still drains me. And so while I believe it's a really important pursuit, like taking taking the permaculture course that I took in Chile in 2014 changed my life.
00:27:54
Speaker
I think it's a very powerful thing that people can show up and teach that core. But is it the right thing for me if it costs me so much? I don't know the answer. I hope in my fifties I'll wake up one day and go, oh yeah. Oh, so I'm in my late thirties now. My fifties, oh yeah, I'm stepping into that elder role and I'm just happy to teach all the time. And it nourishes me on every level, not just some levels and depletes me on others.
00:28:21
Speaker
So um' I'm wondering if that will maybe solve the problem. Yeah, stepping back and really with clarity and a calmness and don't worry about how much time you studied for this job or how many people will rely on you or whatever, just what works for you. And it can be big things like my teaching career example, or it can be little things like, you know, do I really need to worry about making yoga, maybe I just go grab it from the shop and sleep in an extra 15 minutes a
Embracing Life's Joys
00:28:51
Speaker
week. I don't know. My partner and I need to just talk about the division of household responsibilities or or the children's responsibilities. Who does what? Do we just need to step back and be conscious about that? You know, they're the kind of the little
00:29:09
Speaker
little turning points in life, the little keys in the lock. You can take the time to figure out what the best fit is. You can make the path ahead feel like less of a grind. Hmm. Yeah. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. And especially touching on that sunk cost kind of shackle that we might feel to something that we've spent a long time on but maybe we're ready to shock in some way or sculpt to better suit ourselves. I think that would really resonate with a lot of people and it's hard to know when that moment when that kind of tipping point has occurred but like for you Brenna now that you're moving into this new space you're literally going to have a sense of spaciousness around you that you may not have
00:29:54
Speaker
had for a little while, like are there new things on the cards for you professionally? Like are you enlarging your art or are you going to be learning something new entirely? I'm excited about this thought. This is what I, you know, you wake up sometimes with an exciting idea at 3am and then you can't get back to sleep. This is my thing at the moment. The other people get that, it's not Disney. Yep. Yeah, we finally have room.
00:30:25
Speaker
to like, like my partner's a musician and he plays ukulele and things, but he's also a drummer. He has never in his adult life had a place to set up a drum kit. So it's always tiny house living or on the road or cap surfing or done work exchange. Like that's how he and I have both lived for most of our, since school, I guess that's been the plan.
00:30:49
Speaker
So we're about to set up the drum kit and keyboard and have a music space, which is fun because music is something that I, um I'm not at the professional level of, but I really enjoy. It brings me a lot of happiness. and So tapping back into that. And then on an artistic level, I think with my illustration work, for a long time, I felt like I was learning in that work, which is exciting, but also difficult. Yeah. If someone asks you to do something and you're not quite sure how to do it well and efficiently, you've got to figure that out. So that was my experience for the first few years of this chosen um career. And I guess my, you know, my activism as well, it's done through illustration a lot of the time. And now I feel like I've really mastered
00:31:49
Speaker
what what it is that I do in that part of my life. And so the exciting thing about that is I can keep that going without this huge like anxiety churn or having to sit there and try to figure stuff out instead of just doing what I do. And also it means that I'm thinking, oh, well, what's next? So I do have I guess, aspirations to to like i illustrate a lot with authors. But I also used to consider myself a writer. And I've kind of put that to the side for years while I worked on my illustration stuff. So what I would love is to author illustrate a book. And maybe that can be one of the things that I do. It's a really special thing as an illustrator to work with an author and interpret their words
00:32:45
Speaker
and their vision in a visual way, but it's a very special thing to just have both parts in your own heart and mind. And so the art of activism I call it, the illustrations that I release on social media are that, they're just in my mind. And there's some like sparkly into play between what I've what I'm trying to achieve and I'm like waving my hands around you can't see this what I'm trying to achieve and the words that need to be said and then the image and because those three things ah arise simultaneously in the same brain I think that has some extra essence
00:33:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. and And that's what I want to put out in the world a bit more. Something that, like, I'll keep doing collabs with people because I love it. It's a great way to meet, like, you know, talented authors and stuff if they want you to illustrate with them. It's great. You get to spend time with all your heroes. ah But also I want to do, like, what what's Brenna got to offer here? And yeah, there's some, there's some fun things in the pipeline, I guess, book wise that I want to pursue.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah. Super cool. And I feel like we did just collectively peer inside your cranium momentarily there, Brenna. Like, I think that's, you're really onto something with the interplay of, yeah, the drawings, the whole kind of image and the words and those, I don't know how to describe what flashes up when you want to communicate something in a kind of multi-dimensional fashion like that and I really really hope you can satisfy or scratch that itch you have to create something wholly and solely from you know the recesses of your brain but also from the cosmos because creativity is such a crazy and mysterious beast.
00:34:42
Speaker
And yeah, that's very exciting. And speaking of um your magnificent cauliflower, I pretty much can't contain myself any longer. And I would love to start on the list of 10 things that you have cooked up for us, which, you know, I feel almost a little bit guilty about because I'm tasking my guests with this extra thing that they didn't ask to have to do. But by the same token, the people we've already um rolled through this format with are saying that they kind of learned some things or thought about their work or their philosophy or their their shtick in a new way from kind of listicle of buying it. So I'm hoping that it's the latter for you too. And maybe before we hear your list of 10 things to bring into the new year or wherever you are journeying, maybe you could share like where you are coming from with this list and the lens that we're looking through here. Yeah, sure. so um
00:35:35
Speaker
ah Your brief was was wonderfully expansive. Too much. You know, it's kind of like, do whatever. um So I think what I tapped into was what is present for me at the moment and what, I guess, when I call a good friend, what I would be excitedly talking about right now. So that's what I've brought to share with everybody at the moment.
00:36:06
Speaker
Um, should I go number one and then, and then, you know, say, as I thought I want to talk too much on each one. So let's start. I'll start with the first one. Okay. Okay. Number one, be present. And this to me has arisen from my recent practice of ah venturing into the garden every night with a head torch to look for snails and slugs.
00:36:35
Speaker
And it's that time of year, it's spring, we've all been there and we had an absolute plague. And I knew at this time of year when it hasn't really dried out yet and the snails and slugs have been waiting in the grass and then the grass gets cut and they all move towards the seedlings I've just planted. I knew that was a recipe for disaster. So I started going out at night with a yogurt bucket and chucking snails and slugs in there.
00:37:02
Speaker
And I would fill the bucket and then the next night I would fill the bucket and then the next night. And after a couple of weeks, I realized I didn't need to go anymore. Like the the problem resolves itself in a few, in a few evenings. But the, the ritual of going out at night and checking on, I call, I call my seedlings the babies, checking on my babies.
00:37:27
Speaker
And seeing that they're okay is something that I can't not do anymore. I actually love it. It was, even if I was gardening all day, I'm kind of probably focusing on one area, you know, this was just go and have a look at everyone and you can see, you can see any problems as they arise, but you can also see their progress and their, you know, it's like I'm here for you a little.
00:37:48
Speaker
little capsicum plant, you're you're going to be all right. Oh, and that one's not and I'm noticing that and I'm learning. So being present and I also heard some excellent advice from my friend Sharon f Flynn, who wrote a really great book on fermenting called Ferment for Good. And I've known about it for years and I only just bought it because now I have a house I can do such things. And she said, ferments will work when you're present with your ferments. So check on them every day or so and you won't have problems with things turning horrible. Things to turn bad with ferments when you leave them at the back of wherever for weeks and then kind of remember them. And I think it's a real, you know, it's applicable to so many things in life. Just be present with it. get Get excited about it. Check on it all the time. And things work out a little better.
00:38:40
Speaker
Yes, yes, that is so brilliant Brenna, be present. And this is, Jordan and I have been chatting about this and especially about ferments and what it is that differentiates a shit-hot fermentress to someone who is constantly composting a bunch of slimy kraut. And it's literally the the coddling and the cuddling and the checking, the continuity of care in the life of your ferment. And it's the same thing for gardening, like,
00:39:08
Speaker
More and more I'm seeing that those little tiny details and the presence that we bring to those pursuits is the secret sauce. That's kind of the thing that you can home in on if you feel like stuff isn't working for you or you're not um a competent gardener or a fermenter. It's like just use your senses and observe and then interact.
00:39:27
Speaker
All right, number two is it kind of relates to what we were talking about before about finding, you know, what works for you in life and not not being dragged down by the things that are really difficult or tedious. If it's not a hell yeah, it's an F no. And this little phrase was probably from some trashy self help book that I read years ago. It's just stuck there and it's like enthusiastic consent for life.
00:39:53
Speaker
So, you know, run everything you're doing by this. And if it isn't a hell yeah, then you're robbing energy and love and creativity from something else that would have otherwise been a hell yeah. So say, no, never get out. That's, it saved me. its It has saved me. And you know, there was this, I heard a podcast talking the other day, they, if they say no to something, they will put it in their diary. The thing that would have otherwise happened.
00:40:21
Speaker
And so that when they're then living through that future week or weekend or day or afternoon, they have this beautiful awareness that they would otherwise be doing something that they really weren't that excited about, but that someone else really wanted them to do or whatever it was. So I'm looking towards beginning that process. Amazing. Enthusiastic consent for all things. I love it. What have you got for number three?
00:40:46
Speaker
Number three won't vibe with everyone, but it really is present for me. It's called run. So every morning since the first lockdown in Victoria in 2020, I have almost every morning I have gone out and I have gone for a run. And what is interesting about this is that I do not consider myself an athletic person. I was always kind of,
00:41:12
Speaker
my birthdays in November so I was always kind of a year behind everybody else and I was small and asthmatic and a little overweight and I had glasses and just like there were barriers to me being a child that was outdoors and that self-talk I guess persisted into adulthood and when ah When lockdowns happened and i you know you could go outside for for an hour to do exercise, I thought, great, let's run. That sounds cool. How to go. Started with 10 minutes, amped up to 20. Now for the last several years, I've just run for an hour in the forest. And the point of this isn't that you have to run. It could be that you walk. It could be that you go and sit.
00:42:02
Speaker
but it's find something that cares for your body and soul and that you're so intrinsically motivated to do it. Like if I wake up and it's raining and it's cold and it's dark, there is a big part of me that says, ah let's stay in bed. But there's a bigger part of me that says, I am a strong person and strong people get up and put their joggers on.
00:42:27
Speaker
I am a mentally healthy person and mentally healthy Brenner goes, goes for this ritual every day. And also I need to go to the post office, so I've got to sit down there on my bike and run so that I can go on the way back and then pick up some milk or, you know, I've linked all these good reasons to do it. And I think looking after ourselves physically is it's ah it's obviously a complex area but it's something that if there is a daily practice that like I found running you know you'll find what works for you if there's a daily practice or several times a week practice some sort of regular practice it is just such an empowering thing you kind of feel like anything can happen and you're on top of it if
00:43:16
Speaker
if you if you meet those needs of your body. Because our body is the only one you've got, mate. But we've got to really cherish it. Yeah, we've got to really look after it. So that's run, all of that is run. Deceptively simple, but immensely layered and important. Yeah, I really dig it. Okay, number four. Four is ferment everything, which I know we all in this room already appreciate.
00:43:43
Speaker
ah I have been hosting volunteers recently and so we've been putting on these huge ah lunches where I just grab everything out of the fridge and the pantry and the cupboards and lay it all out. And we've got olives there that was made, we've got carrots, lactose fermented carrots, like we make our own yoga or you do the sourdough thing. It's just like beetroot, I've been fermented beetroot and it's really nice and then fermented hot sauce and it is like It is such an interesting and exciting thing. You get to pretend you're a scientist, like all the time, and then you know that you're nourishing your body at the same time. And my 15-year-old nephew is so into it, like when every other kid is rolling their eyes and just being awful and, you know, addicted to computer games and stuff. My nephew's like, what can you ferment there? Like, tell me how to do it.
00:44:38
Speaker
So it it is addictive and it is cool and tell the teenagers and children in your life that it is cool. And there is a song about Kim Chi by my partner and kids love it. And I reckon and if you haven't tried it, try it. And if you've tried it and failed, try it again and, you know, get into fermenting, change your life.
00:44:57
Speaker
yeah, don't give up, just keep putting things in mason jars or crocs and they will eventually turn into sour morsels that you want to stick on your sandwich.
Learning from Everyday Life
00:45:07
Speaker
Have you seen, I think, Kirsten Dirksen, I always call her Kirka Dirker, no, Kirsten Dirksen, YouTube channel, massive following, does like immensely informal looking videos, but she recently went to Sandor Katz's place and it was just very cool to see exactly what he was fomenting And by exactly I mean like the 57,000 things that were lining the walls of his house that were in various states of decomposition. And it was exactly as you say Brenna, like you can ferment anything and everything and the Master of Fermentation Sandor totally signs off on that concept. And yeah, I'm hearing too that when you're having people over and stuff, you have ferments ready to go, ready to
00:45:42
Speaker
add that color and vibrancy to a plate of lunch and totally up your hosting game. Yeah, and it just makes eating well easy because you know there's a whole bunch there that you've got to eat at some stage. So data like you Take away any ah resistance or any difficulty in this sort of stuff. Just prepare it and it's there. And then when it's lunchtime, you don't even have to cook. You just get it all out and chuck it in a bowl. So good. Tasty, tasty. Was that number five or are we now? We're now at number five.
00:46:12
Speaker
Okay, all right, halfway point. This one is from a student on a permaculture teacher training course. I ran with Hannah Maloney last year in South Wales. And she was a quirky sort of person. And it's called Oh Potato, My Teacher. So her, in her own words, spirit vegetable was the potato.
00:46:36
Speaker
which I found amusing and intriguing. And over the course of this week-long workshop, she came out with so many wisdoms that the potato had taught her. So I made a drawing about it. I've got it here for reference. Versatile. You never know what life has in store. So potatoes, you could have wedges, you could have chips. You get a lot done when no one is looking.
00:47:03
Speaker
yeah Potatoes, they're growing underground and no one can see. ah Potatoes, store your abundance for later. There are times of growth and there are times of rest. Brush the dirt off, you'll be okay. And then carbs are comforting and that's all right. And I know, Katie, that I i saw when I visited Nellie Adora Laugh, I saw you had written something similar about the wisdom that a tree can teach her.
00:47:34
Speaker
So the gist of a potato might teach a number five is to absorb and learn from the wisdoms around us. If a potato can be so wise, I think anything around us could be that wise. So let's see what wisdoms are lurking there.
00:47:51
Speaker
Oh yeah, what a benevolent vegetable is the potato. One of my personal spirit vegetables. And also, Brenna, this brings up the question, what do you think the most permaculture plant is? Because to me, it's a competition between the red vein, sorrel and comfrey, but I could be, I could be off the mark there. I think you'll bang on.
00:48:18
Speaker
Okay, confirmed. All right, number six. Okay, be both in and out of your comfort zone. So when I'm doing things like building and backing up trailers and, you know, hanging with the tradies that are always man and lovely, but also, give you know, big energy sometimes. um And when I'm teaching or doing public speaking or turning up to ah a festival to run a workshop and I've never been there before, I'm often out of my comfort zone. And I think some people seek that out and other people shy away from that, but there are benefits to leaning into
00:48:57
Speaker
being out of your comfort zone. What I had realized is that I was so often out, I hadn't balanced it with being in my comfort zone. Until a few weeks ago, I showed up to a local dance class. And I, as a teenager for a year, studied like jazz and ballet and I did like dance after school dance like and I got really into it and I was doing it like every day of the week and then we moved house and I had to stop so it's been 20 years since then and I showed up to this dance class
00:49:35
Speaker
And you would not believe the smile on my face for that hour and a half. I felt so, I was in a new class with new people. I hadn't danced in 20 years. I didn't know anybody. And I was front and center and felt so at home and at peace and comfortable in what is, like I said, I don't see myself as a sporty person. This should have been a difficult scenario. And for some reason I was tapping into something that meant that I felt so good. And I thought, yeah,
00:50:05
Speaker
you've got to have something that's in your comfort zone as well, if you're often out of it. And likewise, if you're always in your comfort zone, push yourself just that little 10%, because that's where the growth happens.
00:50:17
Speaker
So umm um I'm all about having both now. I'm all about it. Oh my gosh. Wow. There is just so much for me in this conversation and I suspect that people will be really feeling the generosity of these points as well because you're delivering so much gentle wisdom and I'm extremely grateful that we still have three more points. What's number seven? Find your people. So in my like climate,
00:50:46
Speaker
activism, I found it really useful to have a few friends that I can, it's like a brains trust. Yeah. A few friends that I can call on if I'm feeling overwhelmed or if I'm wanting inspiration, or if I just want to hear what they're doing. So there's that group.
Supportive Communities and Minimalism
00:51:01
Speaker
And then in our straw bar house build, I had like a brains trust for the straw bar group. And then none of them live near me, but I, you know, you find a way to link them or to contact them. And then I'm,
00:51:12
Speaker
um I'm wanting now a creative group that actually do live near me. So we're going to start Creative Club. And um there's a few people that I've got on the list who I know have that obsession that I have. And that's what I'm really wanting. I don't care if they're a musician or an actor or a poet. They don't need to be a visual artist like me. I just want them in the same room because that's the magic happens. So if you're feeling like maybe Your partner isn't as into activism as you are, or maybe at your workplace, people don't get you. Just find, find your people, your brains trust in whatever area you're needing to nourish of yourself. And it doesn't matter if they're not here. Like make a signal group or WhatsApp group or whatever it is and check in every Monday. How are you doing? What are you excited about this week? Just anything to feel like you're supported in that area.
00:52:05
Speaker
yeah, groups and huddles are absolute gold. And I'm thinking of um beautiful natural beekeeper Adrian Yodis, who I'm going to have on the podcast in the next season, but he always encourages people to leave out lemongrass and that is really attractive to bees. It's like a pheromone and it'll track the swarm and I'm just visualizing like rubbing ourselves in some kind of pheromone that's appropriate to the swarm or the mini-swam of people we want to attract. Yeah, I really really pay that point, once again, nailing it. um Number eight. Number eight is called Step Out of the Driver's Seat. And it was a real theme at the 2023 Permaculture Convergence. It came up quite a few times from some of the Indigenous presenters and then also from other minority groups or diverse groups. And it was, you know, if you want to do good in this world and you have
00:53:03
Speaker
a level of privilege around you. What can be really awesome is yeah, forge your way forward and do what makes you come alive, but bring others along with you. And if you've been in the driver's seat for a while, offer that seat to somebody else and support them. It's kind of like what I was saying about facilitating community meetings. I could do that job, but how great is it if I can help somebody else to learn those skills in a way that feels safe and really elevates them. you know The more of us that are winning, that are happy, that are skilled up, that are ready to go, that feel supported in this movement for change, the the better the movement is.
00:53:47
Speaker
So maybe I don't need to be the one that everyone's giving kudos to. Maybe I don't need to be the front person on stage. Maybe someone else can do that job and I can help them to get there, particularly if it's someone who has struggled because they lack certain privileges that I have.
00:54:03
Speaker
Step out of the driver's seat, pass the mic. Even in the most micro settings, you know, we can do that by allowing other people to speak who might not be as bullshit or forcible as certain other voices in the room. There are lots of different ways to apply this principle. And I, yeah, I really love that sentiment. Okay, number nine. Number nine is let it go. And it's about stuff.
00:54:31
Speaker
when you move into a new house or if you're moving into, you know, changing rentals or changing life circumstances, you end up being confronted by the things that were in boxes or hidden on shelves or behind cupboards for years and years. And my personal philosophy and something that I think I'm working on going forward, like I'm quite a minimalist, but obviously, you know,
00:54:55
Speaker
sustainability regenerative lifestyle, you end up with things that are really useful for that. My philosophy that's helped is, if I'm not using it now, I need to find someone who will. And that applies to books. For a time, I wouldn't buy any book, I would just get it out from the library, or you know, people do like a buy one, give away one sort of vibe. If it's sitting on my shelf for 10 years, even if I love the thing,
00:55:22
Speaker
and I'm not using it, it needs to be on someone else's shelf who built. So that's my minimalist mantra and I'm constantly going through all of my things with that idea, you know. I think ah an item is wasted if it's in a drawer. Even if you think one day you might use it, wouldn't it be so much better if someone's using it now instead of them having to buy the thing as well?
00:55:46
Speaker
And then maybe later you borrow it back, you get another one, like, you know, there's ways, there's ways. The anxiety around, oh, I might need it one day, I might regret giving it away. I think that's living our lives by fear. Let's move stuff on and let it fulfill its but potential, whether it's a baking tray or a well dog-eared book.
00:56:07
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah for sure. Again, that sounds really simple and easy, but I can actually feel my bodily response to looking at the crap that's right next to me on this shelf, feeling my attachment to it, and the possessiveness, the little, little possessive gremlin who doesn't want to give that book to anyone else because it says something about me and when it's on the bookshelf it's like a shorthand for who I am and what I care about, but you yes Brenna, I do love Let It Go and I think that in so many ways that can open us up even just relationally like when you when you share something out what what that seeds in your community and your friendship circle and triggers a virtuous cycle i presume so love it and we are
00:56:53
Speaker
at the summit of this list and looking at this glorious thing that has been on the top of the mountain which is your point number 10. Did you feel just before we get there that this list was kind of escalating or becoming more challenging or was it simply like the natural flow of these points as they came to you? I i think there is a certain flow. It's kind of starts with, you know, me or us as individuals, and then starts looking outwards, looks inwards and looks outwards. So this, this final point is definitely, I mean, it has, it has elements of inwards, but it's it's also looking outwards. And that's why I think I saved it for number 10. And it's dear to my heart. We're all ready to hear what it is. and Yeah. Yeah.
Participatory Democracy and Future Plans
00:57:51
Speaker
Number is
00:57:53
Speaker
get unbelievably excited about politics. And now that sounds like quite an odd statement, not many people say that. But, you know, hands up, who's heard of participatory democracy? Who's heard of the the teal independence, as they're called by the by the media? who's Who's heard of the voices for or voices of movement? So this is the first time that many people have cared or felt remotely hopeful about politics and it's a ah movement that's sweeping Australia. Other international listeners book into this like get your head around it because this model is working in Australia and it can work in your country as well. So it's basically um electorates so where people feel that they're not represented by their elected representatives and
00:58:50
Speaker
the independence of politicians or sometimes community groups that are campaigning about climate action and often about other really important issues as well, like stopping deforestation or creating a just transition for people working in coal and gas. And they are on mass displacing what were otherwise safe conservative seats who don't give whose representatives don't give a stuff about climate change. So it's a really exciting movement. Our local group is called Voices of O'Connor, and we're the largest electorate in the world, possibly, definitely in Australia. So huge amount of territory to cover. And they've got a website, and they're getting up and going, and they're you know forming a group. And these groups are either already happening and people are already elected and acting on climate change.
00:59:46
Speaker
and they have no party behind them so they just have you behind them. That's what's so different and and exciting and if that hasn't happened in your area it will be brewing. so So Google your area, Google your electorate, find out who they are and tap in and see. Maybe they need someone to post on Facebook for them once a week or maybe they just need help handing out flyers or whatever it is, they're exciting, professional, amazing human beings who have way more experience in this stuff than us and they need us behind them to back them and be excited about politics. Woohoo. Wow, you have just made my mother so happy because this is totally her jam. I'm absolutely chuffed with your entire list. As I said, there's a lot of fodder that is personally really instructive and
01:00:38
Speaker
opening for me and I'm sure that everyone's going to be feeling that. and didn Did anything come up that you were surprised by when when you were thinking, oh, what really matters to me or what would I encourage folks tear to look at? Yeah, I think like we you know we all have seasons in our lives and um you know if I was about young kids, that's that's ah that's a big, that's a season. If I've got teenagers, that's a different but equally um big season. And I, you know, as we talked about, I'm emerging from this house building season and towards something else. So I noticed in this list that, I guess, that conversation around self-care and really moving towards what I am nourished by.
01:01:28
Speaker
was present in some of the things that I said. And I would put that down to having just coming out of and what was, ah you know, in some ways nourishing, but also in some ways a depleting season. And I'm kind of standing on that cliff edge looking out. um And I still hold all of my ah activism kind of priorities around ethical politics or around climate action around using my art for change. I still hold all of that, but I was aware that maybe five years ago or, you know, pre-house build three years ago, my list was probably different. I had different priorities and was, yeah, we we kind of inhale and exhale, don't we? During life. For me, it it seems like things that anchor me, things that are stable and predictable by morning run.
01:02:25
Speaker
the cycles of the garden, things that helped my brain to switch off, like looking for slugs and snails is not a taxing activity on my brain. It's almost a meditation. These were what were bubbling to the surface. And then things where I feel like I'm with a group of people making change instead of standing on my own, like the voice is for, like a number 10. That was the other thing that bubbled up.
01:02:51
Speaker
yeah Interesting reflections. I think writing a list, you could sit down, have a cup of tea and write 50 things. like Imagine what that would show you. Totally. And i I really enjoy the seeming paradox of something that is so prescriptive, but also supportive of like all kinds of creative thinking. Even the format itself, when you you give someone a format, they can blow that apart, but they had to start with the set of instructions in a way and I'm thinking of it more and more like a trellis and every single guest, every single conversation, something
01:03:26
Speaker
grows really differently over that trellis but we're all enjoying its presence and like the bones of that idea to get us started and kind of get us deeper into the things that you really care about and I mean that's always what I want to know like the reason that I have a podcast is because I want to know what goes on in your mind I want to know what you know and care about and are obsessed with and somehow this this opportunity to request a list of juicy little nuggets from people I greatly admire just just really gets to gets to the number of things and I'm really grateful that you spent the time. I suppose like lastly
01:04:07
Speaker
bringing the conversation back full circle, thinking about your beautiful straw bale home. How are you going to warm that space? Like how are you and Charlie going to mark this incredible three plus year building extravaganza that you've been through? Like will your community gather? Have you got some kind of ritual? Are you going to do a low key sinking into the space? What's, what's on the cards for your housewarming? Firstly, I'd I'm really excited to bring all the volunteers and friends and tradespeople as well who contributed to this project um together and have you know have ah have like a formal way where they can all see their work, where people who who were here three years ago can see how it's evolved and and say thank you to them. It was really important.
01:05:03
Speaker
and then I guess just having you know moving from living in a tiny house or living at other people's places to having a space where I can host others feels really lovely. So um one of the next steps is when now but like we have we still have the tiny house we were living in. So when we're ready and the yeah when when we're at that stage,
01:05:35
Speaker
letting my good friends know that this is a place where they can come to recharge their batteries with zero expectation and if they want us to cook for them and and they just want to sit in there writing their next book or ah making an artwork or something that's fine and if they want to come see the beach and walk through the forest with us and hang out in the garden then that's also fine.
01:05:59
Speaker
so I guess giving back a little to others now that, because others have been so generous to me with sharing their space over the years. So that that feels lovely. um Yeah, sharing sharing what I have, that's what I'm really wanting to do. But you know, having a kind of day off would be nice too, I might do that.
01:06:20
Speaker
but
01:06:23
Speaker
Aww, well thank you so much for sharing with us, Brenna, with me, and hoping we can check it out in person one day, it just sounds sublime. Yeah, you're very very much invited Katie, there's a theres the spot with your name on it. Aww, thanks Brenna.
01:06:45
Speaker
As always, there is a buffet of links in the show notes below the episode, and you can also grab the transcripts of iTunes, which I know a lot of folks find especially handy. We'll be back next week with another list of 10 resculiant things, and I hope you can join us then.