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Jehane: To Be an Artist or To Be an Artist Agent or To Be BOTH!
446 Plays5 months ago
Our conversation with Jehane take us Brighton England. Her journey is fabulous, and she shares how some of the seeds that were planted when she was a child have continued to bloom brightly throughout her life. Jehane is the creative heart and mind behind UK-based Illustration Agency; Jehane Ltd. A successful designer in her own right, Jehane has licensed hundreds of her own designs all over the world and was one of the first designers in the 1990's to use quotes and lettering in surface pattern—thanks to the inspiration of a fellow Brit named Shakespeare. Renowned for her exceptional eye and creatively developing concepts, Jehane personally represents 20 distinctive artists from the UK, Europe, USA, Canada, and New Zealand. Clients include Chronicle Books, LEGO, Anthropologie, Godiva Japan, and many more. Her journey, pivots and how she has grown a successful agency is a conversation you won’t want to miss!
Our Podcast is proudly sponsored by Jet Creative and UrbanStems! Jet Creative is a women-owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment. If you are looking to build a website or start a podcast--visit JetCreative.com/Podcast to kickstart your journey.
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Jehane’s Links:
Jehane’s Golden Thread - weekly illustration challenge
Find your Art Agent - how to find your agent resource
Ocean Dreams Brief - free creative brief and moodboard
Your Creative Gold: The 2025 Edition - join the wait-list
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme
00:00:01
Speaker
Do you have a dream that is a small seed of an idea and it's ready to sprout? Or are you in the workplace, weeds, and you need to bloom in a new creative way? Perhaps you're ready to embrace and grow a more vibrant, joyful, and authentic life. If you answered yes to any of these, you are ready to re-bloom.
00:00:24
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast where we have enlightening chats with nature lovers, makers, and artisans as they share inspiring stories about pivoting to a heart-centered passion. Hello, I'm Lori Siebert, and I am very curious to hear from friends and artisans about the creativity that blooms when you follow your heart. And I'm Jamie Jamison, and I want to dig deep into the why behind each courageous leap of faith and walk through new heart-centered gardens.
00:00:54
Speaker
Each episode of Rebloom will be an in-depth conversation with guests who through self-discovery shifted to share their passions with the world. Get ready to find your creative joy as we plant the seeds for you to Rebloom.
00:01:11
Speaker
Well, hello, everyone. What an exciting episode we have. We are going across the pond again, and we're going back to London. And I cannot wait for this conversation today. I am Jamie Jamison. And I'm Lori Seibert. Hi, everyone.
Shahan's Artistic Journey
00:01:29
Speaker
Thank you for having me, and I'm Shahan.
00:01:32
Speaker
I'm so glad you said it. So now we know how to say your name. Although you're like Cher, we all know you in the industry by your one name. So that's pretty cool. Oh, thank you. Thank you, Lori. It's taken a long time to embrace my name. So I love your name. I love your name. And you are beautiful. Thank you for joining us today. So I just want to do a little bit of an intro. I'm not going to tell your whole story, but what I know is that you are an artist yourself.
00:02:00
Speaker
And you created a movement and surface pattern from what I understand of adding typography to surface pattern, which is pretty amazing to create a movement. um But now these days you are an exquisite artist agent.
00:02:18
Speaker
And the artists you represent, they are, wow, the talent that you represent is amazing. So your eye for design and art and talented people is really, really keen. um So we want to just hear from you, like where it all began and how you pivoted from being an artist yourself to now representing a stable of very talented artists.
00:02:46
Speaker
Oh, thank you so much, and Laurie, for your wonderful introduction. And I think being an artist is essentially the source of everything that that I've done and that I do. And I studied printed textiles for my degree. I've always been really interested in color and textiles, but also in conversation and in words. And in my second year of my degree, which was in printed textiles at Winchester School of Art,
00:03:15
Speaker
We had a client brief, a client came in and gave us a brief and we chose, I chose one of the themes which was Great Britain as you know it and I had all these ideas about featuring all of these historical figures and all these writers and then I thought no I'm just going to feature one person.
Commercial Success and Creative Influence
00:03:34
Speaker
So I featured Shakespeare So I created a range of designs all about Shakespeare and I brought in quotes and I created passports as if Desdemona had her own passport and I brought in
00:03:48
Speaker
quotes from historians who were asking questions, well actually was Shakespeare even the writer of these plays because potentially it was Francis Bacon or all sorts of other kind of references, you know really rich in reference but it was also visually a collage, it had embroidery on it um and I created this piece in response to this brief and to my amazement it was selected to be published by the client for a whole range of wrapping papers and greeting cards. And it I was one of the first designers to use text in surface pattern that was then went on to be published onto all of these wonderful paper products. And that was the beginning of everything I think for me, utterly pivotal in share showing that if you do really take that leap of faith to do something that really is meaningful for you,
00:04:42
Speaker
it can, to your amazement, lead you somewhere that is actually commercially also successful. And I learned that, I was so lucky to learn that at such an early stage. And I wasn't a typical, you know, wonderful draftsmanship, I was you know really interested in colour and connections and conversations. So that was the, you know, that's how everything really began. And I think you can probably see what I do now in that story in a lot of ways. So it's really kind of carried through everything and partly why I also really love giving briefs now in my role as a you know kind of ambassador for artists. I love giving briefs myself and I know because that happened for me and it was hugely impactful um and it's exciting to make those connections.
00:05:31
Speaker
um So that was really the beginning. I think that separates you from other agents, by the way, the fact that you, as I imagine as an agent, you are talking concepts and ideas and in briefs with the artists that you represent. That's not always the case. So yeah that's really, really an added benefit.
00:05:53
Speaker
to have you as an agent. But can you take us back even earlier in your life when you were a girl and were words and storytelling and color, were those threads even when you were younger?
00:06:09
Speaker
Yes, definitely. Absolutely. I think and my parents, whilst I grew up with my parents not living together, they both had a very strong influence on me and both had a very strong interest in in both art and words. My mother would love, you know, Paul Gauguin's paintings, even though she was a philosopher and psychologist and um she loved colour. And it was absolutely prevalent in everything that that was in her her home and in my home. And my dad was a historian, he's a historian and publisher.
00:06:41
Speaker
So together, you know, they they they have a lot of books. um And I think also they were so, they were both very entrepreneurial in their own fields. So um as a result of that, I was on my own quite a lot as a child. And so I think stories and words were hugely important. And I think also one of the things was that my parents had such a keen interest in what they worked in, that in some ways I was, I had the opportunity, um and in some ways I was,
00:07:11
Speaker
put in situations that an adult would be put in when I was a child. So there was a sense of perhaps my childhood wasn't as much of a childhood as some people might experience because I was in a room with people you know being really encouraged to have conversations and ask interesting questions and think about these things.
00:07:30
Speaker
But it did also give me this absolute you know access to to so much thinking um and this sort of more serious side of thinking about words and connection and context at an early age, which really came from my parents. And Kyla was also part of that. you know They're both very visual. um So it's not, I don't feel that there was a loss for me, but you know things things aren't black and white. And we have an extreme of one thing and less of another. So it's all the magic of, you know, everybody's experience is completely different. um But yeah, I hope that answers your question. ah yeah Yes, it does. And I love I love the fact that, you know, it it's your environment. I mean, it's I love that your mother, when you refer to her home, had all the color in it, even though she had um she was a philosopher and and and so probably
00:08:23
Speaker
had a very challenging job, too, um as as a therapist you said, a therapist as well. But your dad, I love the word. I mean, I love how those two worlds kind of came together for you as a young child. And maybe you didn't even know it, but... Yeah, absolutely. And funnily enough, within the whole Shakespeare context, my mother firmly believes that Shakespeare rate those plays.
00:08:44
Speaker
And my father firmly believes that Francis Bacon wrote those plays. um So not only did they grow out up with separated parents and it wasn't particularly, ah you know, it was challenging, but also they had utterly different views around something that one might think everybody agrees on. you know and so Were they having that conversation about Shakespeare as you were growing up? Or does that come up when you decided to do that project and use that theme?
00:09:12
Speaker
Well, interestingly, it came up with them both. They would both independently talk to me about it. They separated when I was four years old. So um I didn't see them have conversations with each other, um but they would independently have that dialogue with me. you know um So I was like, you know, when you you have a history test at school and you're asked, you know, who wrote who wrote Romeo and Juliet?
00:09:34
Speaker
because of my environment, I was that precocious answer. Well, it was Francis Bacon, you know, it kind of, you know you look back, how you you know, it was, yeah, they would, I think it was just really important to both of them that this this issue of, you know, this question about Shakespeare. So um it's something that really landed with me. I think that, wow, there's this is question about these books and you know we've got these two people have completely different opinions around that, that's fascinating and when you look into it there's even more potential contenders for the writer of those plays than those two people.
Embracing Challenges
00:10:07
Speaker
wow It's fascinating. um yeah It's looking at it from all angles and I love that you were given the brief and you know people could do the standard I don't know it's a it's historical thing as you said but but you broke you broke away from that you broke away from what you should have you just followed your heart and you did I love that you took that leap of faith you did something that was different but you also combined really your two worlds together. I mean, that's really um incredible. That's incredible. And it's great. It's very interesting that that was such a pivotal point in your career. Yeah. That conversation that you'd been having like with your parents all became this pivotal project that launched you into ah so many other things. Yes. Isn't it interesting? And I think often that we think that
00:10:58
Speaker
I think it's also about embracing things that potentially are challenging and actually they can also be the making of you. in all sorts of contexts. So say Vienna, say Shakespeare. well As you know it, um I have that to thank for so much. Well, so what happened next after that took on its own life? So I graduated and I went to live in Vienna. um I've always wanted to live in another country and learn another language.
00:11:32
Speaker
And i it took me to Vienna. I drove out to Vienna in my English car with all my sewing machine in the back um and driving on my side of the car on the wrong side of the road and all of that. And I got to Vienna. And then I worked for a textile design studio there for just under two years. And they gave me free reign to do what I wanted, which was great because I wouldn't i don't think I would have managed it in in potentially a more restrictive studio at that time.
00:12:01
Speaker
and they licensed my work for predominantly for textiles ah fashion and furnishing textiles and paper products. I did really particularly well in paper products um and that was ah a wonderful experience and they were a small business so I did get a really good insight into you know, that atmosphere of of setting up your own business. um And I met some wonderful people there and eventually Lance and German say, were you painting by hand at that point? And doing the repeats all by hand? Or was it on the computer? That's a good question. We weren't we were putting things roughly into repeat. They weren't excruciatingly exact for the repeats, which was brilliant. um And I know a lot of furnishing studios at that time were
00:12:49
Speaker
But because this design studio was also doing quite a lot of work for fashion, which was generally not in repeat at all, um we had that real freedom, which was great. But yes, I was doing mono printing and you know, using income bleach, um but predominantly I was focusing on the collage and the embroidery because that enabled me to bring in more words, you know, paper collage, that was me back to bringing in some wording. And actually one of my most successful designs that were designed while I was in Vienna and has lots of um old German handwriting collaged into it that I bought in the flea market in Vienna. To this day, I don't know what it says because it's in an old form of German that
00:13:33
Speaker
nobody would, nobody could understand it you know even the people in Austria. say What does this mean? And nobody knew. um But ah yeah, and that was interestingly another first. It was one of the very first designs that had gold embossing on it. And gold foiling.
00:13:48
Speaker
no And that was in the early 90s. So it was kind of the beginning of that whole wording thing. And it was the beginning of using all the gold, and which is something that but the I love. Interesting. I love that people couldn't even read it. And you know I think we often see, and I think script is going to be a dying ah dying art form, and dying a dying form period that our kids aren't going to do that anymore. That's a whole other conversation. but You know, it's interesting when I see handwriting, I always feel as if you can hear the person speaking to you. Like, and I think that's why people feel so connected to that. I wonder if you feel the same way and that's why you're drawn to it. You can, I mean, even though even though in in that particular example, you didn't know what they were saying, but it's almost as, I mean, you know that there's words, there's and that there's a person behind it.
00:14:38
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, that's I think I love that Jamie. And I think I had actually thought about it in that way before. And I think you're right. I think on the one hand, it's it's a visual. So the most beautiful handwriting is visually stunning. It also has content. So we go to the layers and the stories. And as you say, it's connected to a person. So it kind of encompasses everything. I think that that i I really value, um you know, about the world that we're in, really. Yeah, much better than a text or an email, for sure. yeah Oh, for sure. I know. i I mean, I still have the letters and cards from my grandparents and my parents. And it's interesting now that I'm a grandmother myself, I have to think
00:15:21
Speaker
Gosh, I need I need to write letter I don't write letters to my children or micro, you know And we don't do that anymore. And now it's yeah, it's it's not only a lot a lost form of communication it's going to be but well, there's something very special about it because I think it does connect to souls and I I love that you incorporated that ah From both your childhood through your projects and then carry that on carry that thread forward. That's beautiful. I So one of your major pivots, I'm guessing, is making the decision to become an art agent. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm just curious, did that was that a slow decision that happened over a period of time, or was that something that happened quickly?
00:16:09
Speaker
So I think it's a little bit of both, actually, um interestingly. So I was a full time freelance artist for 15 years um and licensing my work all over the world and doing work for exhibitions, et cetera, and you know work for shops. And I did that for 15 years full time and was successful with it. um And towards the end of that period, I started exhibiting my work in my own open house as part of the Brighton Festival, where essentially the public are invited to to buy your view and and talk to you about your work, meet artists where they live. And it's part of some other artists to share with me.
00:16:48
Speaker
And that's when I realized, wow, you know, people are coming through and I'm talking to them about what they think about these different artists' work. And it was just fascinating.
Transition to Artist Agent
00:16:59
Speaker
So there's kind of psychologists, you know, be interested. Well, that's really interesting that we know all the different responses that that what were, I was hearing to the artwork and I was really loving talking to people. So I think that's where that spark really started.
00:17:15
Speaker
um and I continued to open my house for a number of years but it wasn't until I had my children that I thought okay I'm not going to be able to continue to design full time and I'm certainly going to have to take you know a back seat from that to set for such a certain extent and I think I was really worried of coming out of the industry of um You know, you it's quite common and it's completely understandable that when you have children that you might have five to seven years or more where you where you you don't focus on your work or you can't work at all. And I was really worried about losing any kind of losing momentum. um And I think also because I came from this environment of real kind of thinkers that I just felt like i it was something that I needed. It's really sort of in my blood. I didn't want to be a full-time mum.
00:18:09
Speaker
here and without anything else. you know So I think I had to really ask the question, how am I going to work this? So I think I then at that point thought, well, why don't I, I really love talking to people about our other artists work. Why don't I show the artists work that I like, that I think might be suitable to my own clients that I already had.
00:18:34
Speaker
um so with paper yeah lines um So that's what I did. So I started to do that. um um And yeah, so the kind of story went from there really, but that was the that was the pivotal point having children that really accelerated that interest and that decision. I love that. And, you know, I think one thing that I'm sort of taking away from that little pearl that you just gave everybody is that oftentimes I hear many women hold on, they get they get a little territorial about their careers, information. You did almost the exact opposite. You said, I see someone, I see this beautiful artist. Here, let me introduce you and make a connection. but you Instead of just taking these clients that were yours and saying, oh, nope, they're mine. I'm going to just sit over here. you You do the exact opposite and look what bloomed as a result because
00:19:34
Speaker
you opened you opened You opened the doors for these other, I mean, it's incredible that's at least that's what I heard. Laurie, what did you hear in this? Because that's incredible. Well, what I was thinking is that I think the fact that you are an artist yourself, that's yeah one of the reasons that makes you such a great agent. Because I think if you think like an artist and you know ideate and kind do concepts and all of that,
00:20:02
Speaker
That just brings so much value, I would think to the artists that are are represented by you. I think that's such a great differentiation from other agents that are in the business.
00:20:14
Speaker
so Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. I mean, you see the talent, and then you connect people to the talent. And what an interesting way to start, and particularly when you have children. Because again, there's that there's there's natural pivot points. We were talking in another podcast about seasons, and we all have seasons in life. And you know you you have to naturally pivot often. um Seems we women pivot a lot more, but we won't talk about that. But let me ask you this, did you continue to to do your art? Did you continue to even just privately, not maybe necessarily commercially or a little of both during that time? Yes, I did initially. Yes, absolutely. yeah um And I think also that in doing the new things, I felt and saw an opportunity to continue to still be creative.
00:21:10
Speaker
in in in new ways and other ways and you know to ideate and come up with a concept, ah it's it's still I feel that I'm still applying that creative spirit and and thinking um and you know also still today. so And I think we'll say that you know for when you've been working as an artist for a long time and you've had a lot of success as well,
00:21:32
Speaker
or in some way, however you define your success with something, but it can it can sometimes still feel a little bit repetitive. wow um And wonder what I would have done with that if I hadn't had the children and I hadn't made that decision, you know, would I have gone and done an MA or how would I have then developed for what I'd been doing, you know. And I think it's really important as creative thinkers that we really recognise that one of the wonderful things about creativity is that we're doing something new. Yeah.
00:22:07
Speaker
um Tell me for our listeners, because and Lori and I know, but I'd love to you to just talk a little bit about what it is like to be an agent. Tell us a little bit about who what it's like in in your creatively, and you're you know tell us about what you do a little bit.
00:22:25
Speaker
Well, thank you for asking Jamie. Well, all like I can say is, you know, I absolutely love it. I love the connections that it brings me to people, to all sorts of different kinds of people who are thinking and creating wonderful artwork in different ways. And I love the insight into that. I think I'm deeply interested in the creative process as well as the the visual beauty that I enjoy. So I love the insight into that and I love having that opportunity to work and collaborate with an artist. um That's really exciting and it fascinates me how different clients react. ah Absolutely fascinating and
00:23:04
Speaker
yeah I adore that insight into what they might say about something and and how how you then marry those two things together and what you can then yourself bring as part of your role. it is yeah I love it and it fascinates me and it's very enriching and rewarding I think.
00:23:22
Speaker
say yeah i feel like ah sorry go ahead go la I was just going to say, I feel like coming from an intellectual family, it seems like you really enjoy research and just ideation and all of that. And and you do a lot in the challenges, you give weekly challenges,
00:23:45
Speaker
um I too love research and all of that myself. Do you feel that that is, well, I know for me the answer, but do you feel that that's equally as creatively fulfilling doing that research, coming up with those ideas that you're then sharing with another artist and seeing how they interpret that?
00:24:09
Speaker
Yes, I think I do. I think I do. Yes, because I think to see that visual response to something that you've also that you've, you know, you've thought about and you've created that seed. And to see that response done in so many different ways. It's ah Yeah, yeah, definitely. I do find that hugely rewarding as well.
00:24:29
Speaker
I love that part. Like when I was doing challenges every other month on Instagram, I love seeing how people's brains work. Like you give them just one little cue and nobody's looks the same and it's all different. And some of them you're like, Oh, I wish I'd have thought of that one or Yeah, but I just find that so fascinating and wonderful. So I would think that would be one of the fun things about being an agent. Oh, definitely. I think it's and it's a wonderful living. I'm sure you found this for when you've done your own challenges. It's a living breathing.
00:25:07
Speaker
and organic thing and it's it's there and I'll see something and it it will give me an idea for the next prompt. you know and ah With one of the set of prompts that I did, I had everything planned out. I'd even done all the newsletters apart from the extra background info. And then I saw something and it took me, that somebody had created and I put all of those completely to one side and went in a completely different direction and realized, wow, this is a real kind of you know give and take.
00:25:35
Speaker
reactive direct. It is really interesting how the whole thing, how the challenges work, I think. Let's take a quick minute and thank our amazing sponsors. Our podcast is proudly brought to you today by Jet Creative and Urban Stems. Jet Creative is a women-owned marketing firm committed to community and empowerment since 2013.
00:25:57
Speaker
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00:26:16
Speaker
And a huge thanks to Urban Stems, your go to and our go to source for fresh, gorgeous bouquets and gifts delivered coast to coast. Use Bloom Big 20 and save 20 percent on your next order. And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Rebloom podcast. Thanks to our sponsors and thanks to you for joining us today.
00:26:45
Speaker
i love that I love that other artists, and it's interesting as as a photographer, and I've worked with my students too, I feel the same way, will be looking at the same vignette. And I will say, okay, let's all photograph this, and just by how we're standing.
00:27:01
Speaker
where we've moved, um how close if we're too close or far away, it just completely changes it or somebody will pick it up and hold it and I'll think, I never thought to pick it up. and you know it's just I love when people step outside of the box and I love that you're encouraging those artists because that goes back to when you did the Shakespeare project, you stepped out of the box and I love that you're encouraging other artists to do that. and The other thing that I'm picking up on too is that when I talk with young people particularly, they they always seem to want to start at the top, at the very tippity top. And I'm like, okay, we need to work our way up the ladder a little bit. I love that you went to Vienna and you started for a small shop.
00:27:45
Speaker
And by working for a small shop, that gave you a much broader understanding of business and clients and as an artist and how that all that relationship works. And I'm thinking that has that how helped you now as you're working with a client? Because you at least that's what I heard you just say, it kind of helps to understand clients and and artists and it seems to all go together. Yes, I think so. Definitely. Absolutely. I think it also shows you that it's possible because I knew that the people that I was working for at the design studio, they'd only been out of their textile design degrees for maybe four years. Yeah. You know, you really have this sense that, no, this is, it's doable. And I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm going to try and it might just work, you know. Yeah.
00:28:32
Speaker
And I think that's the thing that we, yeah, it it might just work. So I think it's really good to go for it and try and try to direct what you're doing as much as possible from that point of view, rather than react to what you think you should be doing. um Because I think that that means you're just going to get overwhelmed.
00:28:50
Speaker
Yeah, that seems to be a theme where, you know, we keep hearing just try. You know, those are just words we hear almost every interview we do. but It's maybe you're you're uncomfortable a little bit with something, but just try because you just don't know where it's going to take you. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, with so much visual noise that's out there right now,
00:29:17
Speaker
I would imagine too that breaking the rules is important.
Trends in Art and AI's Role
00:29:20
Speaker
And I would bet having some of those rule breaker artists are important to you. Is that what you are? Are you seeing any trends, anything that's that you like to look for?
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think, well, things that I like to look for are definitely color. So a smart sense of color is something that I really respond to personally myself. I think color was something that comes very naturally to me within my own work. So that's something I can really kind of work with. So I need to have really good kind of color that I can work with. yeah because I do want to be able to respond to what my artists are creating and um I think also that interest in the narrative to a certain extent as well as it being visually wonderful because of my interest and also because commercially it gives you and both creatively it gives you both more opportunities to work
00:30:12
Speaker
in product as well as, for example, you know in books. and You might not be a picture book illustrator, but there is still lots, and we don't do a huge, huge amount of picture books, but there's still a lot of opportunities in books, books, book covers. um you know So there's there's a lot of opportunity there, and I think it's wonderful if we can use our creative ideas and and you know allow them to to sit in one place and inspire work you might do in another place. So that potential for an artist to have the application of their work in that both of those areas, you know, product and books is something that I definitely would look for. um But I think in terms of trends, the big one for me is that I think people are really wanting and enjoying seeing something that's either created by hand
00:31:05
Speaker
not digitally or created in a digital with a digital medium, but that you really feel that there's ah there's a human hand behind that and mind behind that. That is for me the biggest thing that I'm really seeing. And also quality, high quality, I think is something across the board that is becoming more common and more sought after by clients.
00:31:29
Speaker
and and less just top-end, you know, I think that's filtering down more now, which is great and really exciting.
00:31:38
Speaker
yeah I'm trying to leave. Sorry. Laurie's trying not to cough and and and we're still trying to... So, all right, I'm going to touch on this and so I'm a photographer and I'm seeing it happen more often, but I would love to just scratch the surface of AI.
00:31:53
Speaker
but Oh my gosh, Amy, I was just thinking about asking that question. I know because I've seen, you know, to me, so I'm a natural light photographer. I like taking pictures. I mean, I do edit. Of course I edit. I like to make the flowers really sparkle and I mean, not in a in an unnatural way. But as you were saying that, I'm like, I just want to see somebody's real work. I don't want to see some talk to us about AI and and where you're, what you're thinking and and just tell us anything. Well, so yeah, AI, I mean, I have a very special relationship with AI and I think that the advent of artificial intelligence and the research that goes into it, I think essentially is something that's fascinating and can really help us to understand how we think and how we create. That's one of the fascinating areas of AI and all the research that's gone into creativity
00:32:49
Speaker
And essentially using the fact that you've got to create a computer program to start to understand, or how are we actually doing what we're doing? And that part of AI research I think is utterly fascinating and something that is really helpful for us to consider as part of our process. And and I think that there are some artists and there are some programmers collaborating with artists that are creating really interesting art with really um a lot of value and content and that I think also is hugely interesting and and and and yeah fantastic but I think scraping other people's work to put that together without their permission
00:33:38
Speaker
to then create something which is a hybrid of of all of these things that it scraped without permission. That is essentially copyright infringement. And I don't agree with that at all. But it does make me feel a little bit sad because I think there's so much about artificial artificial intelligence, which is fascinating and interesting, that what's happening with the AI scraping machine learning stuff without people's permission. that That's a huge issue. But it's in reality, if we take a step back,
00:34:07
Speaker
there's a huge amount of other benefits and values for artists and with the philosophical discussion of art that AI really brings to the table of value. And I don't want that to be lost because that is really exciting and important work um just because we have got this thing happening where people's work is being scraped and used without permission. So it's some yeah there's a it's a big it's a big question and a big subject.
00:34:36
Speaker
So I've been co-hosting a conference every year for like 15 years now called ArtBizJam and they one of the speakers talked about AI last year and he essentially said that it is it is a tool that we're going to need to embrace and if you can find ways to work with it,
00:34:58
Speaker
And one of the things that's exciting to me is ah an artist, a couple artist friends of mine use it as a sketching tool. So yeah they might put together several of their images or photographs they've taken or, you know, writing or whatever, and then have AI kind of combine it into some kind of new imagery and I think that's pretty pretty interesting and pretty fascinating well but but i I agree with you on both counts. I think it's fascinating and some of the imagery I've seen created is really evocative and and I love it but on the other hand it's got a lot of people scared and I guess you just have to... yeah Absolutely. It's a powerful tool and yeah it's moving quickly. and ah that's just yeah any Any powerful tool is super scary. I completely agree. um Absolutely.
00:35:56
Speaker
And the law is always 25 years behind. and it's And that was before what we're now experiencing and seeing. So I just doubt the law is, you know, it's never going to be able to catch up. No. Yeah. that I think AI has left the stable for sure. And it's on full speed. And I think we're yeah light years behind trying to corral it in any kind of way. because But I agree with everything that you've said. You know, it's interesting as a photographer,
00:36:27
Speaker
yeah he I'm familiar with derivative rights because initially on with social media, people were, but can I paint from your photos? And I'm like, oh yes, thank you so much. Isn't that sweet of them to ask? And I had been meeting with an attorney and she said, um those are your rights. Like don't give that away.
00:36:48
Speaker
And, but you know, I think there's a lot of naivete out there, and particularly when you're just randomly putting things out there, which is what I was doing. And so I had to educate myself, and I understand that now. And I'm always um very pleased when someone asks, because they don't have to. And then I try to say, absolutely, are you selling your work? You can buy my images. Of course, then they go away. um But there's you know there's value, I've put a lot of time and money and effort into my images and and artist to artist we need to respect each other. And yeah so I hope that yeah my hope is that the that we will have our own good moral compass and our own moral conscience when AI sort of, because it has taken off that we well continue to produce our own work and take inspiration but not wow yeah imitation.
00:37:44
Speaker
Absolutely and I think it is fascinating how we can think about well how could we use that to actually help us define our creative voice a bit better and it is often challenging as a visual person to to try and in express something in words that isn't always easy but actually it's something that an AI program that might encourage you to think about that um in order to generate a result that might make you ask the question, well, is that representative of my creative voice of my vision? Is that or not? If not, why not? What could I do to change it, to support our dialogue about our own work? And that would be fascinating. That would be a wonderful thing for us to have more. And yeah, it's exciting in a lot of ways to see where it's going to go, but it is a scary, powerful tool.
00:38:35
Speaker
So i I want to take us back to our our podcast theme here about reblooming. Sorry. We went off. We got off. Which is fine, because that topic always comes up lately in anything. Yeah. Yeah. But we've interviewed people who have made pretty dramatic traumatic pivots. And you know one person was a on the stock exchange, and now he's making bourbon on a farm. and And we've interviewed other people who have always been maybe in a creative field but have made, you know, smaller pivots. And I feel like that's the category you fall into. But I'm curious what and what you see happening next for you.
00:39:21
Speaker
Do you see yourself circling back to doing more of your own work? Or are you so in love with with the process of being an agent that that's kind of where you you want to stay? Yes, I think
Full-time Artist Representation and Fulfillment
00:39:35
Speaker
so. I think I'd find it really hard to give up the connections and the conversations with other people. Yeah, that makes sense.
00:39:46
Speaker
Well, so what I was thinking though is how much are you doing your own work now? Are you doing your own work at all or are you mostly full-time? representing yeah um full time Full-time representing um artists and also working with artists I don't represent through my class, ah Your Creative Gold, which happens once a year.
00:40:08
Speaker
and through the challenges. I have been ah doing some other work but not. i it's I think it takes really good time to do good work and I think also in order to truly develop my artwork, I think it's really important we continue to learn and do new things and we develop in whatever we're doing and I don't think I've got enough time with the work that I am doing of my own artwork.
00:40:36
Speaker
to to lead to do that. So I have to make a decision. um So yeah, maybe I will, who knows, ask me in five or 10 years. i different answer How many artists do you represent currently? um So it's currently 20. Yeah. Okay. That's a pretty good number. That's a pretty good number. A ton, but it's a good, yeah it feels like a great number.
00:41:01
Speaker
But I think it must be also why I love to do the the briefs and and really work with artists is that that's my way of continuing to do my own, you know, apply my own visual eye. And yeah, I think without that, I wouldn't want to be an agent.
00:41:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that is the thing that I think differentiates you. I truly believe that. I mean, a lot, well, we won't go into that conversation. But it's it's neat to see how you've rebloomed. and And it's interesting, one of the earlier things that you mentioned in the podcast,
00:41:40
Speaker
was that you were a young child, but you were brought up in a rather adult but environment, which I was brought up in an environment where I think my parents, we always went to, you know, we were part of the gatherings and, and um I don't know, we spoke like little adults, I guess, when we were children. And, but I loved the connections. And it's interesting that you've transitioned to something that gives you full-time connections. Because as an artist, sometimes it can be a little lonely and you want to talk to people. And it seems like you've got the best of everything right now. You're more art directing or you're looking at people's work and and helping them to be creative. They're doing a lot of they're doing the work, but you're helping and making connections and conversations. And but I want your job. It sounds amazing.
00:42:29
Speaker
I need to. okay I think now we need to go to London now. So Lori and I keep inviting ourselves with every guest to all the different places. I'd love to help you in London. No, it's lovely. It's lovely. Lori, what else did you want to ask? Well, I just was wondering because I'm i I get curious about weird things. If you weren't doing what you're doing today, did you ever have any other dream professions?
00:43:03
Speaker
Yes, I think it would probably have to be a dancer. Oh, ah yeah. Yeah, I can see that. and so Yeah, but that's what it would be. so So do you love to dance? I do love to dance and I really miss dancing. And um yeah, it's on my to-do list this year in Bricey, where I live, there's a bandstand on the seafront.
00:43:29
Speaker
and in a beautiful kind of regency bandstand and it's certainly in its round and every Wednesday there's a dance class on the bandstand and you see everybody dancing and looking at themselves for dancing or foxtrotting, not quite sure what they're doing but I always look at that and I That looks amazing. I miss doing it. OK, you need to rebloom and do that this week. That has to be your goal. I'm telling you this little secret thing that I just started, which no one can see me doing this, but I don't really like exercise. Yeah. So I decided I'm going to just dance. So I put on some EDM music. I got some some think things for my son, bands to listen to. And I just like go crazy around my house for a while dancing.
00:44:16
Speaker
Oh, lovely. Oh, when's your next dance? Laurie, feel like that might go viral. I don't know, Laura. I think Laurie's already had some viral videos. That might be it. I'm not posting my moves, but I even wait till my husband's a pickleball before I put on the music and start dancing. but amazing How often do you do your secret dance? and What's that? How often do you do? Oh, every day lately. Every day. Oh, wow. I love that.
00:44:45
Speaker
Brilliant. Well, I have some back issues and walking for a while hurts my back, but for some reason, dancing, I can i can help power through. It can happen. I just love to dance. And yeah so a lot of my retreats and things they that when I'm teaching live, there's usually dancing that happens. So you'll have to come to one of them. It's amazing. I'd love to. yeah Do you go to the trade shows? Did you go to Bologna? Yes.
00:45:15
Speaker
Yes, I went to Bologna this year. Do you love the shows or are they exhausting? I think, well, Bologna is very, very special. I think it's very exceptional out of all the trade fairs that I've been to, which are always tiring to go to.
00:45:31
Speaker
um for sure and they're you know they're often in an environment where they don't have windows or you know e etc. cetera and It can be really intense but there's something also about Bologna, not only is it in a beautiful place in Italy um and it's been really well designed so that there are windows and you know courtyards and It's just the most magical, inspiring experience as a visitor. It feels like a creative conference. It doesn't feel like a trade fair. And I think it's because it's just completely dedicated to children's books. How lovely.
00:46:07
Speaker
So it's, you know, that magic, that love, that happiness that we feel when we think about our favourite children's book. in it Yeah, it's just everywhere throughout the whole place. It's just absolutely, I find it intoxicating and yeah, really, I would recommend it to anybody to go. Yeah, I was watching some of the illustrators I follow when they were attending. I'm like, oh, that sounds really pretty great.
00:46:33
Speaker
Well, exactly. And there's all the illustrators that attend and the illustrators wall. And it's just brilliant that, you know, there's that, that they're made, but they are so hugely important. And that's where you recognized it, Bologna. It's wonderful. Say, yeah, you must go. Have you been Laurie?
00:46:49
Speaker
I have not been and so when when my kids were younger I had this goal of wanting to illustrate children's books and I had like three or four books that I wrote but never did anything with them. One of them was called Hector the Collector because that's me like I'm like this little collector person.
00:47:09
Speaker
um But my friend at the time, she said, oh wait, when your kids are older, you'll be a you that goal will go away and kind of sort of did. But now Kenzie, my daughter, she's right in that area where her kids are that age and her goal now is to illustrate a children's book. yeah But I think her work is actually even better suited for that. So if I can help her make that happen, that would be amazing.
00:47:34
Speaker
Maybe you can co-author and that's and that's the beauty of I you know, I just love these conversations because You know Jahan you've like pivoted from just artist to business person to Connector you're like an artist can I mean, I know you're an agent, but I feel as if You're helping others to grow just based on your love of art and it's just this has been the most beautiful um What a journey, what an incredible, and you're still on it, and you're still, and now we gotta, now we're gonna have we're gonna have to put dancer next to your title. Yes, we are. But i I think that's, I think the thing that we're learning in all of these conversations is that along the way the seeds are planted.
00:48:19
Speaker
And we may not know what they are, or whether they be just from the colors in your mother's home or the words in your father's or the conversations that you have ah to the first jobs that you have. It's just beautiful to see how they've all built upon one another. And here you are today. And all of that is coming together to make you an amazing agent for others. And that's incredible. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your kind words. Thank you, Jamie.
00:48:48
Speaker
Oh, well, we appreciate you. Thank you. Now, we we do love to ask our guests, do you have any advice that you give your artists, any advice that you have been given, anything that you would like to leave our listeners with? Sure. Thank you. That's such it's such a good question. And I think for me, it's coming back to really coming back to yourself.
00:49:11
Speaker
and centring your thinking and your questioning in a way where you it really enables you to be directive, more than reactive, even if you don't quite know where you're directing yourself to. And I think to embrace that feeling that you might not know where it's going, but you know that it's coming from you. And I think that's the biggest piece of advice that I think I can give. um And if you need some support with that, someone in terms of words, that's that always where I come back to. But I think if you can think about in your two or three words, which you might say are part of your vision, and just try to always come back to them, check in with yourself around that.
00:49:55
Speaker
um And it's something that I still do for myself. You know, we might come up with an idea for something or a visual solution for something and we'll ask, well, is it, you know, the three words that I've got for my vision for Shahan Limited, for the agency, it's um to be the most imaginative, the most alive and most loved. And to continue to come back to that really supports me in continuing to do really good work when really thinking.
00:50:22
Speaker
and trying to do something that is those things, because otherwise it's you know, it's very easy to fall back and do something that's easy or you think you should be doing. So I think if you can really start to think about who really who you are, what is your vision? What's important to you?
00:50:39
Speaker
and just try to always come back to that while whilst you're, especially when you're feeling overwhelmed. um Because who you are as an individual is of the biggest value. And that's what, I think that's, I want people to really pursue that concept of you know really embracing themselves as individuals. And that's what really brings value to the world. And that's what sets us apart from you know from the machines.
00:51:06
Speaker
i mean And it's what brings value to the world. So, yeah. That is beautifully said. and Go for it. Yeah. Believe in yourself and go for it. That is beautiful and brilliant. Go ahead, Laurie. I just love the idea of coming up with those three words. And I love your three words, so maybe I'll use those. And we walk away and come and we're like, okay, now we need to go do that. But it's brilliant. And I think it's again, it's always a theme. It's your authentic self and it's look in your own heart and yes, take inspiration from others. but
00:51:43
Speaker
Well, don't, you know, just look within your heart. And I i love and and be your be your own individual self. I love it. Love it. Jahan, thank you so much for joining us today. So great chatting with you. ma Maybe we'll dance together someday.
00:52:02
Speaker
I can't dance I'm like Elaine so I'm not gonna I'll let but I'll do it anyway thank you thank you so much oh such a pleasure thank you so much great thank you everyone for listening thank you so I was thinking as a lot about Well, it always comes back to me and and I bring this up almost in every interview we do. I love, love, love when people collect things and this is goes to living and creating authentically.
00:52:34
Speaker
Johan collected those moments with her parents and loving the color around her and the learnings that she had in that environment. And that got plugged right in to the work that she created that ended up propelling her onto the next thing and onto the next thing. So I love that idea of, you know, not everyone has that experience. Not not everyone grew up in her home and lived that life.
00:53:04
Speaker
But she took those seeds and those things and funneled it into her work. And that's what made it special. And that's what made it stand out. And and and it was different from what ah everyone else was doing.
00:53:16
Speaker
because she's the words being reactive versus being directive. She's being directive because she was falling back on the things that she knew. Just like what they say about write what you know for writers. right You know, the best work comes when you're writing something that you know about or you've felt something about because it's authentic.
00:53:40
Speaker
Again, I think it's interesting as a child too, our filters are sort of pure. So we only let in the things when we're children that really touch our hearts. And so it was interesting, words were part of it and color were part of it. and And she kind of put those, i I'm thinking of the analogy you had used before about your sweet little grandson who fills his pockets with all kinds of treasures. It's almost like if we listen, we all fill our hearts with treasures and we carry those with us. We don't have to empty them out. And if we kind of circle back to them throughout our lives, I think we find that they're always there. And I loved that she
00:54:25
Speaker
she took, there was a continuity in all that she did, and it was, whether it was communication or words or color, and it started as a child, but it's still with her today. and the encouragement of others. I mean, what a beautiful career. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Aren't we? We are so lucky to have these conversations. This is the best. I know. Aren't we? Oh my gosh. All right. Pack the bags. Now we're going, now we're going abroad. um Oh my gosh. She's amazing. In London. ah We are. Hey, thank you everyone again and peace, love and rebloom until our next episode. We look forward to seeing you. bute Bye bye.
00:55:06
Speaker
Life is too short not to follow your passions, so go out there and let your heart plant you where you are meant to be and grow your joy. We will be right here sharing more incredible stories of reinvention with you. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so you never miss an episode of Rebloom. Until next time, I'm Jamie Jamison. And I'm Lori Siebert. Peace, love, and Rebloom, dear friends.