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14: What Does Prayer Without Words Look Like?
188 Plays4 years ago
Jill Devine asked Laura Fleetwood to share her perspective on prayer. Laura has learned different ways to pray and different ways to approach prayer that have helped strengthen her relationship with God.
Highlights from the episode include:
*Pop-Up Prayer
*Being real & raw
*Listening
*Breath prayer
*Letters to God
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Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
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Transcript
Jill Devine's Journey to Podcasting
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to episode 14 of normal goes a long way. I'm your host Jill Devine and I will be doing the interviewing today. I have someone that you know who went in here. Let's go back to where we first started in the very first few episodes where I introduced you as my spiritual mentor and
00:01:02
Speaker
You're going to help guide me through some stuff today that I don't really know a lot about. In our last episodes, we had Pastor Chuck Schley and Ryan Finler on, and we talked about prayer.
Understanding Prayer in Daily Life
00:01:15
Speaker
Prayer is a topic that, I don't know, it just seems like it's a lighthearted subject, but also very difficult at the same time.
00:01:25
Speaker
I think maybe expectations might be a better word. Expectations, yeah. That we have certain expectations about how prayer should look or not look. It doesn't have to be that way. You know, prayer is a very personal thing. And just like God has given each of us a personality that's different, I think he also has given each of us different ways of connecting with him.
00:01:52
Speaker
I think about those past conversations in the last two episodes with Chuck and Ryan and yes, expectations is a really good one. And I keep going back to just what Chuck kept saying about it's a conversation. It's just a conversation between you and God.
00:02:12
Speaker
I'm like, why aren't we taught this? Where do you teach that? You go to church and you see these formal prayers that are happening. So that would make sense. And then even if your child attends a Christian school, I don't necessarily know that there's a subject on prayer. I don't know.
00:02:31
Speaker
But somewhere along the line, I'm like, Oh man, wouldn't it feel so good to just have that conversation? And I just, that's what I think that people don't understand. It is a conversation. It is a conversation between you and God. However you want to have that conversation, just have it.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yes. And for me, it's even more than a conversation. It's like just being with him where words aren't necessarily even necessary. And I think this kind of conversation is where mentoring comes in.
00:03:06
Speaker
you know, where people who have formed this deep relationship with Jesus converse freely with people who haven't to show that there are so many ways to know Him, so many ways, and so many ways to communicate with Him and to share yourself with Him. And that's all prayer. I don't know that we even have to have a name for it. I mean, I consider it prayer. I consider prayer to be
00:03:37
Speaker
Anytime that I bring my awareness that God is with me, he's always with me, right? But sometimes I'm not aware of it because I'm stuck in my day to day or whatever. And for me, it was only going through a season of darkness where I could do nothing except cry out to him and be with him because I couldn't do anything else that
00:04:04
Speaker
I became, I think, more aware of how he is with me in my life, even when I'm not purposely saying, okay, this is my prayer time. Like, dear Lord, and then the amen. Yes, because that's how I always used to pray, you know, at dinnertime, at bedtime. And now it's much more
The Concept of 'Pray Without Ceasing'
00:04:26
Speaker
of, you know, there's that scripture that says, pray without ceasing.
00:04:32
Speaker
And I used to kind of be like, how in the world would you pray without ceasing? Because you have to go to meetings and you have to, you know, get on with your life. You can't be praying all the time, but actually you can. And it comes with just being aware that God is with you and like even like
00:04:50
Speaker
know, it's like more of a full body, heart engaged way of living where you can go about your day and still be aware that God is with you and that you are communicating with him through your breath, through your heartbeat, through your
00:05:08
Speaker
It's very powerful. It's very powerful. And it's not something that I experience all the time, but it's something that I find myself growing more and more into is like this, the fullness of knowing that God is everywhere. He's around me. He's under me. He's in me. And so there is no separation because of what Jesus did for us. There's no separation between us and God. So really prayer and communicating with him can happen.
00:05:38
Speaker
constantly. It is happening constantly. We just have this way of thinking that it has to be through words. And that's where we're taking this episode and explaining prayer in that way. So if it's not in words, then what is it? I know you just explained a little bit about being surrounded and being under you and being in you, but
00:06:06
Speaker
I have a lot to learn. I don't 100% understand that. Yeah. So for me, it began with going through a season of dark depression and anxiety where I really didn't get out of my bed much and literally began doing breath prayers.
00:06:25
Speaker
because my mind was so chaotic with the anxiety and the racing thoughts and the what-ifs and all of that kind of stuff that it was hard for me to form in my head the prayers to God because it was just so busy in there. Like I couldn't quiet my mind long enough to have a conversation with him. And so I had read something or done some meditation and they talked about breath prayers.
00:06:51
Speaker
And literally with a breath prayer, you come to awareness of your breath. You breathe in and you breathe out. Some people will put like a word or a mantra to the breath. But for me at the time, it was enough to just like focus on my breath. And as I would breathe in, I would just think about the fact that I was breathing in God's love and strength.
00:07:20
Speaker
And as I would breathe out, I would think about the fact that I was breathing out my stress and my worry and my anxiety. And then when I breathe in again, filling with God's love and strength and out, letting go of all that was bothering me and the struggle.
00:07:41
Speaker
And so it became this thing that I could do even when I was in the middle of a panic attack or my mind was racing or I was just in that pit, you know, I was still breathing, right? And as long as I was still breathing, I knew that I was breathing in God's power and love and that I was breathing out everything that I was struggling with.
00:08:06
Speaker
And that became kind of like this grounding understanding that God is so much bigger and more a part of us than we can ever imagine in our minds. Like I think sometimes when we pray, we kind of think like we imagine God sitting there in the chair and we're having a conversation with him and we forget like that he is
00:08:35
Speaker
everything like everything was created through the word through Jesus through like it's all encompassing and when I remember through my breath that he is in me and around me and everywhere it just reminds me like how powerful and he is and how dependent I am on him
00:08:59
Speaker
And because my breath goes everywhere with me, it's a reminder to me that he's always with me. That's one way of not using words.
Non-Verbal and Creative Prayer Practices
00:09:08
Speaker
And I don't know if you could give a couple of other explanations or examples because it just dawned on me when you were saying that. Like sometimes people would probably, I mean, I've done breath work before, but not necessarily tied it into God.
00:09:26
Speaker
And I think that there are certain things that click with people. Maybe somebody formal prayer is that's their thing. Absolutely. That is where they are feeling God. Maybe it is the breathing in and breathing in the words of God or that you are acknowledging God. But maybe it is a physical touch or maybe it is song. Would those be considered
00:09:57
Speaker
I guess prayer. I mean. Absolutely. Here's another example. So when I would find myself having to leave the house or like leave my room to go cook dinner or something like having to force myself to go somewhere and do something with anxiety. Most of the time I had my fist clenched. It's just like a natural thing you do when you're when you have tension and stress. So I would physically like release my hands and my right hand I would
00:10:25
Speaker
Try to remember to keep it open and so that literally throughout my day it was a reminder to me that I was reaching out to Jesus and that he was like literally I was imagining him holding my hand to get through the day literally like I would if someone was driving me or I was driving I had one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand on my leg with my hand open and
00:10:50
Speaker
And it, you know, no words needed, but it was like that, that physical number one, opening my hand was an act of surrender. Right. I was letting go of like trying to.
00:11:04
Speaker
fix myself and control myself so it's an act of surrender. It was also a reminder that Jesus was literally holding my hand. I knew I could not get through that day without him holding my hand. Sounds weird. But that was another way that I just experienced him without words. Other things, a lot of people will pray
00:11:33
Speaker
when they're walking outside in nature. And sometimes I'll do this and no words again, but just like it's like an opening of your spirit to receive because so far we've talked about praying to God, us doing all the talking.
00:11:52
Speaker
There's an other, whole other side to a conversation and that is listening to what the other person has to say. We're not good at that. No, no, no, no. I mean, one way we do that is through scripture, right? That's one way. But Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is alive and active in us and he is teaching us things and comforting us and counseling us
00:12:18
Speaker
whenever we need it. And so part of prayer, I think, is verbalizing or sharing your prayer requests and your concerns and your thanksgiving and your honor to God. But then it's also opening up your heart as well. Most importantly, your heart, because we can't hear him talk to us.
00:12:44
Speaker
I think that's maybe where people get hung up. Cause it's like, I don't, people say they hear from God, but I'm not hearing any words in my head or, you know, um, and I do not hear words in my head, but I do get feelings in my heart and sometimes even words in my heart. That's hard to really hard to describe. Um, but it happens. And for me, it happens a lot of times when I'm outside walking and I work on emptying my mind,
00:13:13
Speaker
And I just ask God to help me receive what he has for me in that moment. That can happen for me too when I'm listening to worship music. So I'll kneel on my floor and open my hands and just ask God if there's something that he wants me to receive to help me receive it through his spirit and through the music. And oftentimes the words of the songs that come on will share something with me that I needed to hear.
00:13:43
Speaker
So it's being aware of other ways that you can cry out to him in your body and your mind and in your spirit. But it's also being aware of ways that you can receive his love and his care and his wisdom for your life through listening in all kinds of ways. Some people like to write down their prayers for some people. And it's been shown that journaling writing down your feelings
00:14:12
Speaker
is important, the connection that it makes with your brain and your body. And so I'd have to assume that writing down your prayers would do something similar. And what I did in one of my journals was wrote out my prayers, Dear Jesus, but it wasn't a prayer. It was just like a letter to him. That's how I do it.
00:14:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I have the journal and sometimes I write letters to God or prayers to God. And then sometimes I'm just writing statements or like when I chose my word for the year, which I chose release, I just took one page and wrote release all over it in different like artsy ways. And I'm not artsy, so it's not artsy at all, but that's the way I would do it. And then the next page just might be a dear God
00:14:59
Speaker
And this is funny, this goes back to kind of the formalness and ending it. Sometimes I feel weird if I don't put amen at the end of it, I don't know.
Integrating Prayer into Everyday Activities
00:15:11
Speaker
Or sometimes I just say, love you or a heart. Like, yeah, I just write like a letter. Awesome. Yeah, I did that for a while too. And then what I did is on the next page, I wrote Dear Laura and I wrote what I imagined him saying back to
00:15:27
Speaker
And so that was a way to do both, to talk and then to listen and to receive. And I tried to do as much like just stream of conscious as possible, like not think about it, but so try that sometime. Just write, dear, after you get your prayer out to him, write, dear Jill, and then what? Like, just let your heart lead the way. And what is he saying to you? And it's just so beautiful to go back and I have those journals and I go back and I read, I'm like,
00:15:57
Speaker
Oh my gosh, like he was talking to me through me writing what I thought he might want to say. I hear that all the time is that well, I mean, even in everything that we just are not quiet enough. We are not listening enough. I know that's one of your things Laura is to be still and
00:16:18
Speaker
It is, be still with your thoughts, go to a quiet place, sit there and just listen. And it's hard, I know that I don't do it as a daily practice like I would like to, because there are, I think, in going back to what I was talking about with Chuck and Ryan, when I would start to pray in my head at bed, at bedtime, I'm laying down and I start to talk to God and then I think about the million other things I have to do and then go, oh my gosh, I gotta go back to God.
00:16:49
Speaker
I think that oftentimes I could look at you and listen to you explaining how you do things and the practice and think that you don't have those thoughts or that you don't stray in your mind. Oh my gosh. That's false. Absolutely. And I have heard from people that will say or people that are experts at
00:17:12
Speaker
whatever it is, meditation, that no, when those thoughts come in, this is what you do because the thoughts will come in. You're gonna start on one thing and hardly anyone can ever just sit there and have a clear mind. And those that can, it's taken years of practice. So I think that's another thing that I need to understand too. Just if I sit and listen and I start to get distracted,
00:17:41
Speaker
It's okay. It's okay. Go back to the reason why. Absolutely. And you know, you can, you can practice this in small spaces. Like you're sitting in pickup line for your kids and you have five minutes before they get in the car. And so you turn on some peaceful music and close your eyes and just breathe, you know, um,
00:18:02
Speaker
You can practice it at home when you go to the bathroom. It doesn't have to be this zen-like setting with candles and yoga mats. That's great if your life allows you that freedom to set aside time like that. And maybe someday it will. There are seasons in my life where I can do more things like that.
00:18:25
Speaker
But I think it's just more, just like praying out loud. It's more of an intention, like just making it more of a habit, more of a, hmm, when's the last time I just listened to God? Or if the word listen spooks you out because you're like, oh, I don't want to listen for the voice of God or whatever, or then you worry because you've never heard the voice of God. Another way to think about it is to just sit in his love for you.
00:18:56
Speaker
Like just sit, close your eyes and just imagine the great love that he has for you is just washing over you, you know? Because that's true, that's true. Every word in scripture points to that. And it can just be so refreshing to take five minutes and to sit in God's love. And that is a form of prayer you're receiving. I was just gonna say receive is the word I'm hearing.
00:19:26
Speaker
You not say, but say. Yes. There's something that you were bringing up and this also got brought up in the last episode. And then it also made me think of something I saw recently is
00:19:39
Speaker
We have talked about how prayer can be weird and how you do it can be weird and it's just whatever. And one of the things that Chuck said, I can't remember exactly the exact context, but that some people like to pray with their arms open. And I know that you mentioned that. And then I thought about this,
00:20:05
Speaker
This is like behind the scenes work lingo, but we have a new director of children's ministry and I don't even know really what it means to be installed. You can't, that's a whole nother episode, but she was called, which I never knew that language either. Anyway, she's accepted a position at our church, different language.
00:20:26
Speaker
for church work. Basically, yes. We offered her a job and she said yes. So now she works there. So her installation, which is basically like, here she is. She said yes. They prayed over her and I was watching her and it was Ryan and Chuck and then another woman, Joni, who is the principal at the school.
00:20:52
Speaker
and they all had a prayer for her and I watched this woman, Hannah, close her eyes and open her hands and she was receiving it and I thought about if
00:21:07
Speaker
I was on stage in front of all these people, how that, would I do that? But that's how she was moved. That's where the Holy Spirit came in for her. Absolutely. And it was pretty beautiful. Like some people I think would probably saw that and thought it was weird. I don't know. It just is starting to kind of click with me and maybe it isn't pulling my hands up. Maybe it is just closing my eyes, whatever it is that feels right in that moment.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yes, because the Spirit is working in you in that moment.
Personal Expressions and Non-Judgmental Prayer Practices
00:21:37
Speaker
And I think we often get in our own way when it comes to prayer. There's no right or wrong posture. There's no right or wrong... fold your hands or not fold your hands. I use my body a lot because I feel like it engages more of me.
00:21:54
Speaker
So when I open my hands, like at the blessing, at the end of service, I open my hands to receive it because it's like a physical, I don't know even how you'd explain it, but it's like my body and my mind and my heart saying, yes, Lord, I want to receive this. So it just engages more of my whole person. And same thing with prayer.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, there is no right or wrong way. And I think, like, why do we judge people? You're talking to God. That's the best thing ever. I mean, I have there been times I screamed, I've gone for a ride in my car.
00:22:35
Speaker
so I could scream at God. I was screaming in agony. You know, just like I've had my girls come to me crying and sobbing because of something that was going on in their life. Would I want them to like button themselves up to come to me all presentable and feel like they couldn't share their emotions with me? No, same thing if they're angry. Like I would rather know they're angry at me than have them be passive aggressive and
00:23:03
Speaker
just not talk to me, give me the silent treatment. Nothing's going to be resolved. And so in the same way, we can come to God and be like, God, what is going on? I am so frustrated. I'm so mad. This is something I've started doing lately too, is just doing little pop-up prayers in my head about my feelings. So even if I'm in the middle of a meeting or something, I can just in my head go, God, I am so frustrated right now.
00:23:31
Speaker
Like it's a way for me to acknowledge how I'm feeling and like give it to him at the same time. I like that. I think he wants that because he wants to help us resolve things in our lives and we can't be open to how he can work in our life if we're not acknowledging our own part in it, right? We have Vermont's responsibility as well.
00:23:56
Speaker
And I don't want to exclude people who aren't parents that might be listening. It's just a very easy analogy. And if you aren't a parent, then thinking about being a child and your parents, I don't know. It's just these last few episodes have really kind of hit me to my core about that. Like God is my father.
00:24:24
Speaker
and I'm going to screw up and it's okay. And I just need to keep turning to Him that I don't have to make it so formal, like to be real, just be real, like I just... Yes, real and raw because the thing is, nobody, not your spouse, not your kids, not your parents, nobody knows you as intimately as God does.
00:24:49
Speaker
He knows what you're thinking. He knows your feelings. So really when you think about it, there should be no barrier because he already knows that you don't have to put on some kind of act like you might do around your kids so they don't see you upset or whatever. That barrier is already removed because of Jesus.
00:25:10
Speaker
So use it, you know, like, and it's so freeing to just be able to take it all to someone because you can't, you know, there are things you don't want to talk about with your spouse and things, you know, but God, he gets it all. And it is funny when you bring up like the kids sometimes just hearing. My five year old, some of the things that she talks to God about, I mean, and it isn't I mean, she's not
00:25:39
Speaker
practices it a lot, but when she does, sometimes I just giggle and I think, oh, that's ridiculous. And then I think, oh, he's probably laughing like, oh, she's talking to me. And then, you know, I try not to say you should only pray for this or do there. No, just talk to just talk. He and God is the very, very best friend that you have always wanted.
00:26:09
Speaker
and never thought you could have because you can't trust someone that much with your deepest darkest stuff. That is who God is and he's so much more than that but that's who he can be and that is I think who he wants to be for us. As we wrap up this episode is there anything else on prayer that you feel would be helpful to someone who might be new to it?
00:26:36
Speaker
or even someone who has been praying their whole life that maybe needs a little oomph. I almost hate to say anything because there is no right or wrong thing to do or say, but I think I would just encourage you that God is listening and He is waiting like an excited child for you to give any part of yourself to Him.
00:27:03
Speaker
whether it's your words and you want to talk to him, whether it's your breath and you want to experience what it's like to breathe in his love and breathe out your pain, whether it's a prayer in church or a prayer at a meal, any part of you that you will give to him, he wants it. And then
00:27:24
Speaker
He wants even more. There's nothing that you can say or do that will make him think any less of you or love you any less. In fact, the more you share with him, the more you will understand how much he loves you.
Sharing Prayer Experiences and Encouragement
00:27:43
Speaker
You can follow along on our journey by following us on social media, Facebook and Instagram, at normalgoestalongway. We would love to hear from you. I mean, maybe you have a prayer, I don't know, ritual, maybe a prayer or something. Yes, tell us, tell us through any of the social media outlets or normalgoestalongway.com is our website, or maybe you have a prayer request.
00:28:11
Speaker
we would gladly take those two and and honor those in all sincere aspects. I know if you listened to the last episodes you've heard us talk about the thoughts and the prayers and not being sincere
00:28:29
Speaker
This is sincere. If there's something on your heart, we would love to hear about it. So please reach out. We appreciate your support. Wherever you're listening to this podcast, share it, rate it, review it, get it out there in the world. We want others to have you share this with them so that they can be a part of this and start talking to God. That's right. You are never alone. God is always with you. So talk to him. He's just waiting.