Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
BONUS (7b): Going Deeper With Justin Shiroma
236 Plays4 years ago
In this bonus episode, Laura Fleetwood sits down with Jill Devine and Justin Shiroma to ask the questions she had while listening to Episode 7.
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction by Jill Devine
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine media production.
Perception of Christianity as Judgmental and Exclusive
00:00:04
Speaker
Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members only mindset.
Jill Devine's Faith Journey
00:00:13
Speaker
This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith.
Faith and Real Life: Podcast's Purpose
00:00:28
Speaker
The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect. Welcome to the conversation.
Interview with Justin Charoma
00:00:40
Speaker
I had the pleasure of interviewing Justin Charoma on this podcast. So many similarities between you and me, Justin. And we didn't even get into all of them, but Laura was listening and then she wrote down questions. So she is going to ask you questions and then we are going to chime in here and there to help
00:01:02
Speaker
with whatever you want to know and maybe learn a little bit more. So Laura, would you like to take it away with your first question?
Justin's Spiritual Awakening
00:01:09
Speaker
Well, first of all, Justin, like thank you so much for sharing that story. It's so important for us to recognize that God works uniquely in each person's life.
00:01:22
Speaker
And so to just be able to soak in the stories of how he has worked in your life brings me such joy and awe, just to see your awakening and to hear what a difference it has made in your life and now in your family's life.
00:01:41
Speaker
Just thank you for that. That's amazing. I really appreciated that.
Family's Church Attendance Impact
00:01:47
Speaker
I wanted to go back to something you said when Jill was asking about growing up in the church and you mentioned that you and your family were holiday churchgoers.
00:01:59
Speaker
And I'm just curious, because a lot of people are in that boat, and I'm so stubbornly against people belittling that, because I don't care if you're a holiday churchgoer. You're coming to church twice a year, right? That's awesome. God is going to work in that. So sometimes when Christians are like, oh, they only go to church on Christmas and Easter as a negative, I'm like,
00:02:24
Speaker
but they're going to church. So I'm just curious from that perspective, when your family would go on Christmas and Easter, what would you walk away with?
Exclusion from Communion: Personal Feelings
00:02:37
Speaker
Just curious, what would you, in general, how would that impact you growing up?
00:02:43
Speaker
Where are we going to eat? That's what I would ask first after church was done. Because you all would go out to eat. Yeah, where are we going to eat? I'll talk about the before actually, and you mentioned about other Christians maybe degrading others that go on holidays. Well, I would be the type.
00:03:02
Speaker
I think it's more insulting to go only on holidays and not go the rest of the year so I don't want to be insulting to the church so let's not go and so I would even try to talk my way out of going to these holiday church services. I think it was just kind of a marker in the year you know of that
00:03:20
Speaker
a marker of a connect, you know, like, OK, I went to church. I can say I would go to church, which now that's huge. Like, I think that's huge to be able to say that you are connected, even if it is once or twice a year. And from experience, knowing that it's way better than not being connected at all. You know, I would go to the big Christmas mass and the messages are very similar and the same. And so it became a yearly is more just a yearly event to go and be connected.
00:03:48
Speaker
thinking back to your high school years you mentioned
Understanding Church Rules on Worthiness
00:03:53
Speaker
that you felt disconnected in a way because you would like participate in the communion and everything as was expected of you and yet like you didn't quite have an understanding of it or did it feel like maybe it didn't impact you the way you thought it should I was just curious if you could explore that disconnect a little bit well I wasn't
00:04:15
Speaker
Really allowed to participate in communion church without going without being confirmed or that be my understanding at least and I even took that lack of understanding after my own recent baptism and Shout out to pastor Jim. Actually I did this and I didn't understand Receiving communion, you know in our church and so I took the kids up to get a receive a blessing and
00:04:44
Speaker
But then I refused the communion and Pastor Jim offered to me like three times. I said no. I said no three times. I said no, no, no, no, no. Looking back, after I actually reached out to Pastor Chuck and having that connected, I felt comfortable asking him, what is this all about? Because I needed to understand the practice and the significance of it.
00:05:11
Speaker
in order for me to truly receive because that's the way I felt growing up that I wasn't good enough to receive this blessing and so yes I reached out to Pastor Chuck and asked him and he explained it to me and I'm like oh and then I thought back to the Pastor Jim offering me several times and now I can
00:05:33
Speaker
I don't want to think that I don't receive Christ. I don't want to think that, you know, but it was more of my understanding and a reflection of my experience of, oh, I'm not allowed to because I haven't gone through the right steps.
00:05:46
Speaker
And it's interesting you bring that up because kind of the same, but kind of opposite. So my husband was, I believe baptized. I don't even know and confirmed. I can't remember the first time that we attended Messiah and it was time for communion.
00:06:06
Speaker
And he and I stood up because it's a Lutheran church and I knew that I was confirmed to Lutheran and baptized Lutheran, but still didn't really understand all of that. Now I'm thinking about it. I still probably don't understand all of it. And he stood up with me like, you can't go. You're not Lutheran. And he said, God doesn't care. I'm taking this. And I was like, wowza. Either he's really pissing somebody off in the church or he is really right. And it started this thing in my head and
00:06:36
Speaker
There were so many different things like i would go to a catholic church with my sister when i wanted to go to a christmas master whatever and i did feel shame that i had to stay in the pew when they would go get communion and i was always like well i just don't understand why i can't and i remember this too.
00:06:57
Speaker
when she got married so she converted to Catholicism when she got married and has her maid of honor, technically I was not supposed to be on the altar with her and they had a father who was amazing and they're like okay just when he goes to give you your communion just nod your head put your head down and nobody's gonna and all these things now I'm understanding why it's so confusing and why it's so difficult and so
00:07:26
Speaker
When you said that you didn't want to take the communion because you didn't feel worthy enough or I'm paraphrasing, but like
00:07:35
Speaker
I always thought it was just against the rules, you know, and, and so I'm, yes, I wasn't supposed to do that. Right. You know, or why don't I get to do that? Right. You sit there and feel again, excluded. And that's, that was my experience and my perception. Again, I, I,
00:08:00
Speaker
practice and everything like that. And so yeah, that just led to the overall feeling of I'm not as good as my buddies who grew up in Catholic school that went through all of this Sunday school and I didn't do that. And so they're from a religious
Hearing God: A Life-changing Experience
00:08:25
Speaker
So let's talk about this moment when you heard from God. So cool. So cool. I thought it was interesting how you explained it that it didn't come through your head. It came from your chest, like almost this gut knowing.
00:08:41
Speaker
that he was speaking to you. Have you felt that again? Yeah. I mean, it's almost like once you feel it, you don't stop feeling it. It's like a channel's been open. And it's whether you're receiving or you're actually receiving it, you're just listening. It seems to feel there. And I think that's what I hope, that's what all Christians feel, that connection. Like many instances,
00:09:11
Speaker
in the Bible. It came from fire. It came from a place of turmoil and struggle, pain, and it was almost like a need for it to happen to heal me. Those are not a good place. It was looking back that as amazing as we can speak about the moment being, it doesn't happen when things are sunshine and rainbows. Not usually. So there was pain attached. There was conflict, turmoil,
00:09:40
Speaker
like I said, fire in that moment. So yeah, definitely not easy, but, you know, I think in following and kind of do I feel that feeling, you know, it's almost like, you know, they talk about people when you go to maybe go to church service and you feel like the pastors are talking directly to you. It's almost like every service
00:10:02
Speaker
Like my hand was being held. I'm talking to you. I'm talking every time every word was hitting like this is for me. Talking to me is for me. And, you know, over the course of a year, not every Sunday was like that.
00:10:17
Speaker
In the very beginning, it was one of the first series following our baptism was the broken series. And so that's what I was. I was a broken man. I was a broken person. And that needed to be put together. And I needed to understand the message. You know, we talked about the gold holding the pot.
00:10:37
Speaker
together. And that's what I needed was God. When I say early in the beginning, I needed my hand held. I couldn't receive the message and then find my way. I needed to receive the message. You know, God speaks to me and then he's like, okay, and now here's the way. Now here's, now you are broken.
00:11:00
Speaker
Terribly broken. Here's the message from your church on Sunday. My people are talking to you and you're listening to and this is something you need to hear. And it went on there and then time went on and it became a journey of
00:11:18
Speaker
I was then searching for more opportunity and came FCA. And at Dave Shawl, who is one of the directors of FCA, we meet weekly for a discipleship of Bible study. And it's wild because I was kept thinking, I need to expand my days that I am engaged God, not just Sundays.
FCA's Influence on Faith and Sports
00:11:42
Speaker
I need to find something. He calls me on the phone.
00:11:44
Speaker
just calls me. Amen. You want to do this thing with me? Like, dude, were you just reading my mind? And it just happens that way. Leading up to this, not this past Sunday, but the Sunday before, was marked one year from my baptism. And Pastor Jim's up there going through this list, followed by, God's not done with you yet. I'm like, wow.
00:12:10
Speaker
Like the whole year and how, and there was a lot that ones, I lost both my arms last year. I tore both bicep tendons. I had to have surgery. And so as my kids were just learning to stand up and walk. So all this time when they're.
00:12:25
Speaker
that have been falling, I couldn't pick them up. Needless to say, my wife hated me for having twins and couldn't change one diaper for eight months. But we got through it. It's been a very tough year in some aspects, but a lot of great things came out of the year. And starting with the FCA, getting involved with more people, making it a more active
00:12:53
Speaker
part of my life and try and striving to make God first and that's been one of the hardest things is I think as a person that was always about himself first and you know I'm kind of person to like I can take care of this I can fix this I can do this I don't need help from anybody like that type of person control that person you know going through the year and then slowly making that progress of trying to put
00:13:19
Speaker
God first. Still, I mean, it's probably a 10%. It's better than zero. Yep. And to hear the message, as amazing as your year, your baptism birth year was, I'm not done with you yet. Just being reminded that how loved I was and how needed I was. Those are feelings that did not feel a year prior. I didn't feel like I was that. I was worth anything. So it's just been a crazy, wild, awesome, amazing journey.
00:13:49
Speaker
So amazing. And thank you for that reminder that he's not done with any of us yet. We are all a work in progress. And the fact that he sent you someone to meet with regularly and learn more about God and to dig deeper into what it means to be a Christian, you mentioned,
00:14:08
Speaker
being discipled, that to have somebody who can invest in you, that is what the Christian walk is supposed to look like. It's not something we're supposed to do alone. So what a blessing. And that came through FCA, Fellowship of Christian Athletes. And maybe that's a good place for us to wrap up is learning more about what is Fellowship of Christian Athletes and how can we connect our high schoolers
00:14:37
Speaker
to it. So do you mind giving us just an overview of what does that organization do and what's going on in it in your school? FCA is bringing athletes and coaches together to fellowship and walk through Christ's teachings and trying to let him be the light that we walk toward even through our abilities with our abilities and our character and
00:15:06
Speaker
the way that we can use ourselves as tools to reflect Christ's light in others. Sports offer us an opportunity to see ourselves in a different light, to see ourselves in a place where we can express ourselves, a place where we can challenge ourselves,
00:15:33
Speaker
where we can experience many seasons of life in small, safe, I would say, small, safe opportunities, you know, like a game or practice. We're going to experience those ups and downs and how we walk that path, walk those paths and walk those many seasons that we experience can really
00:15:55
Speaker
lead us in our real lives as we move past athletics and become men or women of Christ moving forward in our lives. And so, you know, FCA seeks to connect us in that way with the focus on sports, but of course with the intention of making us better Christ followers and fellowship together. And so building relationships like we talked about and connecting and
00:16:22
Speaker
I've met Antonio, like I said, when I first started. I've heard of FCA, never went to a meeting, never knew anything about it, other than the term fellowship of Christian athletes. Probably something I would have completely stayed away from before, but that's all I
00:16:41
Speaker
But, you know, again, since then I've met other coaches and other teachers that are involved or have previously been involved who jump up at the opportunity to say, hey, I know about this, I can help. And I'm like, amazing, I need help. But again, you know, putting those people in my life, but me seeing these people now as adults in their own lives,
00:17:06
Speaker
and how what their lives are like and how they walk through life have you know having this I would say this experience or this fellowship behind you know with them or in their you know in their experience bank and saying like wow this is somebody that yeah I would like to be like him or I would like to be like her and and their path came through FCA you know and so that's what I think we're about is
00:17:33
Speaker
is just growing together through sports. And it's truly growing together, athletes and coaches together.
FCA in Public Schools
00:17:40
Speaker
So amazing. And you can go to the FCA website and see if your school has a chapter, right? Yep, fca.org. And there's also an Instagram page.
00:17:52
Speaker
I'd never heard of it until now. Really? And you were a coach. Not all schools have a chapter, but they could. And these are public schools we're talking about. And we're so fortunate that we were able to be a actually school sponsored club recognized by the school. And I think that is one amazing step for all of us is that we can be recognized for our beliefs.
00:18:17
Speaker
and gather, and it's acceptable. I mean, of course, within our frame, but the kids, we walk around and the kids will say, the public school, we can be Christians. Absolutely.
00:18:35
Speaker
we can fellowship together, we can meet, and we can talk, and we can share. And I think that, to me, was amazing to just see. It was my goal. That was my goal to provide. I told the kids, this is my goal. I wanted to be able to open up and create a platform that this could happen. And just to hear it come back and the kids say, wow, we can do this. We are doing this. Look at us.
00:19:04
Speaker
the building, public school building, talking about God, reading Bible verses, discussing it, sharing our experiences. And it's like, cool. Like everybody's like, cool, you know, everybody loves it. Talk about full circle. Cause you know, you said just over a year ago, you didn't even believe in God. And here you are. You are the sponsor of FCA in your school and God is bringing people
00:19:31
Speaker
to you through that. I mean, that's one of the amazing things when we step out and we say yes to God, we think often that we're doing it to serve others, but He is giving you so much.
00:19:43
Speaker
through you stepping out all these relationships that are then pouring into you and growing your faith. So it's just a beautiful example of how God works, the good in everything. And a lot of times we don't get to see it on this side of heaven, but this is such a great story of us getting to see it in action and like it's happening now. Yeah, it really is amazing. I didn't do it without
Relieving Burdens Through Faith
00:20:10
Speaker
them. None of it. I think the real,
00:20:16
Speaker
without God helped me in a lot of the struggles I was having before I found God. The feelings of not being good enough or the feelings that I needed to do something and take care of a situation or be the one to make things happen. It's a lot of pressure to shoulder. And when you feel that way about everything, like I said, I for some reason would
00:20:39
Speaker
take these huge societal issues and bear the weight of it as if it was my problem. Once I realized that we can put that in God's hands, I can put everything that I have in God's hands, and everything he's given me is from God's hands.
00:21:02
Speaker
It took the pressure of me feeling that I needed to do something or even the feeling that I'm not doing that. It's not about me anymore.
00:21:11
Speaker
And coming to that realization was huge for me. And do I struggle? We struggle every day, every single day. And is Satan working on me every day? Absolutely. Do those feelings come back? Yes. And it does take conscience, active effort to put it back where it belongs. Is it perfect? No. Does it carry on for days? Yup. Weeks? Yup. Sometimes, you know, I'm fortunate that I do have joined this discipleship with Dave.
00:21:41
Speaker
and we meet because it's a solid connection that we have and we reflect every week and I can say I wasn't very good last week. I didn't, you know, try not to feel the guilt of it but saying, you know, I acknowledge that I could definitely do better and I would say if I didn't have that, it could carry on longer, you know. It really helps to connect and, you know, link up with people that are going to support you and
00:22:08
Speaker
Amazing. Do you have any final thoughts, Jill? There's just so many similarities between us and it's, I will say, the one major difference and we talked about this with Chuck.
00:22:23
Speaker
was I don't have the scientific background as far as digging into that. Like I've chosen not to. And it's even more inspiring to me to see someone who has done that
00:22:39
Speaker
And there's a lot of people that do that and you have still found God because that is one of those things where from my understanding, from what I've heard, that's the game changer. They're like, okay, this is science. This is what I'm going with. And I can't do that. I can't do that right now. Like Chuck said, maybe down the line. And he tells people to like, do the research, look at science,
00:23:04
Speaker
but also look at Jesus. And so I don't know. I just think that that is such a deep thing that you were into, a big rabbit hole, and to come out of it. I don't know the answer to that, but I got out of it. If God didn't write the story so beautifully and intricately and he just made things happen, where would the faith be? How would people have faith if they'd just seen it happen?
00:23:30
Speaker
if they could prove it. So to the audience listening, you have a story too. And we've had the honor of listening to Justin's, but I just want to encourage you to reflect on your own light.
00:23:44
Speaker
Who are the people that God has put in your life from childhood through now? Maybe just those little touch points, you know? A word, a service, a reaching out. And who's in your life now? What would it look like to open your heart a little bit to the possibility that God is at work and he wants to be closer to you than
00:24:10
Speaker
than he is right now. Justin's given us a lot to think about in that regard and a lot of hope. And so we just leave you today knowing that there is a God who is for you. Until we meet again, take care.