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Mysteries!
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The mystery: why did this one upload a couple hours late??
Quest Quest podcast is Ben Vigeant and Jess Morrissette.
Editing by Ben Vigeant
Show art by Kevin "WilcoWeb" Wallace
Watch us on Twitch!
Ben: https://www.twitch.tv/ps_garak
Jess: https://www.twitch.tv/decafjedi
Give us a review, they help people find this show! Unless you hated it, in which case, don't.
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Transcript
Introduction and Platform Sharing
00:00:32
Speaker
Quest Quest, Quest, Quest, Quest
00:00:50
Speaker
plusqua adventure game podcast welcome and everyone I'm Jess. I'm Ben. PS underscore Garrick. Decaf Jedi.
00:01:02
Speaker
ah We're those respectively on Twitch and YouTube. how are you doing, Jess?
Debate: Seriousness of Podcast Content
00:01:07
Speaker
I am doing well, Ben. But you know... I've got to come to you with something serious.
00:01:13
Speaker
Oh, okay. And what I'm coming to seriously with you our lack of seriousness. I, I feel like, and I hate to throw around this kind of language.
00:01:25
Speaker
Hmm. I think we've been playing a little bit too much grab ass here at Quest Quest, the adventure game. No, Ben. Absolutely not. I've heard people saying that we spent upwards of 20 minutes talking about Oreos right off the top last time around.
00:01:41
Speaker
We spent upwards of 30 minutes. Get your facts straight. Wow. So we talked for Oreos about 30 minutes and then about adventure games for what, about 15 minutes? uh i'm sure you know
TV Shows and Comedy Music
00:01:53
Speaker
i'm i'm working to optimize it down to a very nice and dense five minutes you see what i'm going to recommend instead is if you could do all of the oreo talk at like 1.25 and then maybe do all the adventure game talk at 0.85 speed feel like then our listeners aren't going to notice how much more of our podcast is becoming about
00:02:16
Speaker
oreos or sandwiches or something we saw on tv yeah or and maybe more will be about uh adventure games like the title suggests uh you know what i've been watching on tv jess oh what have you been watching ah so my uh my my boyfriend uh grew up in in the southern church and so i i was like oh man, we're gonna we're going to watch Righteous Gemstones together.
00:02:48
Speaker
oh man. Because hadn't watched it. And so we've been watching Righteous Gemstones. And you know what? That first season isn't is first seasons probably the best one, which which which kills me because I have a lot of fun with the later seasons.
00:03:04
Speaker
But the first one... is the best because I think it's also it's the hardest on them they they deserve a lot more contempt and the the first season is very nasty like it's like these people are not to be respected and uh like the subsequent seasons are like ah they're fun how's the boyfriend reacting for a first time viewer He's enjoying it, but he did say, he's like, his comment was, he was like, that's blasphemous. Like, he would make comments, like, he's like, oh my god, that's that's blasphemous. Like, whoa.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah, whoa.
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, you know what I've been, why I mean, again, the grab ass we've got just like, I mean, and we got to just like cut down a little bit on it, but I just finished binge watching the first season of the studio on Apple TV. I gotta watch that. Everybody's nuts about that. Yeah, the big Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg series.
00:04:03
Speaker
Fantastic. Really good. um The final two-part ah end of the series, or season at least, ah finale is so funny. Just slapsticky and wonderful.
00:04:17
Speaker
And if you're sort of an old Hollywood nerd, ah sort of telling an old Hollywood story in 2025,
00:04:27
Speaker
It's good stuff. It's really funny. I think I laughed harder at the finale maybe than any other hour of TV in recent memory. So pretty good.
00:04:38
Speaker
pretty good you know what else it has constantly it has like full frontal yeah like that's ah it is weird that seth rogan is just hanging dong yeah the entire show but you get used to it yeah you see the old pepper grinder um but yeah he you get used to it after like the first few episodes but then like other characters are constantly talking about it which then takes you out of the show again Yeah.
00:05:04
Speaker
But no, I mean, it's what it has that I love is and the soundtrack is mostly sort of like jazzy percussion. So it's just lots of people like hitting on a snare and a cymbal as things get more and more out of control and slapsticky with like the, the tempo of the slaps.
00:05:23
Speaker
you know just i think wilder and wilder i think that's a pretty good ah way way to do comedy music i love a percussive yes build in comedy music versus the like the the the synthy trombone like that yeah oh here comes sir um and but up another kisser gun a gonna laugh The percussive bits better, especially like when you get to like a moment where suddenly like the big comedic reveal happens and you kind of get that the rhythm of the percussion breaks down or maybe it sounds like a cymbal almost falls off of its stand or something like that. So you got
Adventure Games and Pop Culture
00:06:05
Speaker
a thing going on. up
00:06:07
Speaker
I think the trick with comedy music is that it has to be like. A slap bass like Seinfeld. Well, don't butddle that then but ah that's good too. That's that's incredible music. um But also I'm saying like, I think it has the quality of the comedy has to be up to the promise that the music is making to you.
00:06:34
Speaker
ah Because if it's like going but but but but but time to laugh and then like you get the punchline, And it's not that funny. Like you're, I think it it's like a multiplier, right? yeah yeah Yeah. Like you're just like, I was told I'm going to laugh right now.
00:06:53
Speaker
And I'm just sitting here with my arms crossed. Now, again, we can't afford to get too off topic here, but you know, i think that Tina Fey shows always do a really nice job of balancing music and the comedy. Yeah. Her, her husband, ah Jeff Richmond does the music on, on her shows and the music.
00:07:12
Speaker
is uh spectacular on all absolutely uh he was a he was a second city guy oh yeah as was she um but uh but yeah he was that's a that's a a second city thing is and they'll also have it at it like sometimes you'll see it at some of the other comedy theaters in chicago um is they'll have a, like a pianist or, or something that like kind of like plays and kind of underscores, uh, uh, scenes, uh, on the, the stage.
00:07:47
Speaker
And that's actually, imagine being able to do that. It's a very, very specialized skill, especially yeah like at the second city, they're generally doing sketch and then doing improv. Like it's, they'll do like a, like a two act, uh,
00:08:04
Speaker
sketch show and then ah ah a like and improv set. But ah like I mean, I've seen improv shows. like ah At the I.O. Theater here in Chicago, they'll sometimes have a pianist there who is just there playing music ah improv.
00:08:25
Speaker
And that just seems difficult. Yeah, that's why I don't do it. Yeah, you know, I don't do anything. I think I might be bad at. Oh, yeah, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's the long and the short of it.
00:08:39
Speaker
That's why everyone looks at me and says there's an underachieving success. That's how they am proud of it. Like Bart Simpson always used to say that Bart Simpson, you know, I, I disliked the message that he was sending to our children.
00:08:53
Speaker
you know, during the nineties when already they were getting so many bad messages from television. Yeah. The late eighties, early nineties. mean, yeah. be like Murphy Brown. humble murphy acceptable Thank you.
00:09:03
Speaker
I'm glad we, now, first of all, Ben, again, this is an adventure game podcast. We
Pop Culture and Political Critiques
00:09:08
Speaker
can't, Grab ass. Did Capstone have a Murphy Brown adventure game? how good would that be though?
00:09:16
Speaker
That would be amazing. Look, I did still digitized image of Candace Bergen. The guy played Frank, the guy played Miles. i don't know you their names. I did not. I think I've only seen one episode.
00:09:31
Speaker
like, I recently was just like, huh? I've never seen an episode of Murphy Brown. That was like the biggest show of the first half of the nineties. And nobody talks about it today. so like I put on an episode and I watched it and I was like, huh.
00:09:44
Speaker
yeah I only started watching. That was my whole experience. I only started watching when Dan Quayle recommended it.
00:09:51
Speaker
You know, that that is in in a like, you know, in today's and fucked up atmosphere of, like, American politics, it is like, why aren't they playing the classics of picking a fight with, like, a popular rude TV show?
00:10:10
Speaker
That, like, you know, why not go back to that? let's That was such a fun culture war to fight. Play the game where, yeah, have, like, ah you know like someone go like i don't i don't care for i don't like i don't care for the studio they're too rude like i don't like how seth rogan's naked it all the time yeah like we just don't we we really lost something where like the the american right wing is just picking fights with television shows because they perceive them to be too rude like i swear too much on the bear why can't they be polite in that kitchen
00:10:51
Speaker
Like we, we, we, you know, I think that's really where we lost our way was when, when it stopped being, it's like, oh, the, like the, the Simpsons, that little, that little boy calls his dad by his first name. This is the biggest scandal that's ever existed.
00:11:11
Speaker
like your My school did ban the first, the underachiever and proud of it. T-shirt that one was like explicitly forbidden. And then it was expanded to all Simpsons t-shirts.
00:11:23
Speaker
And I had been the sweetest flea market bootleg Bart man t-shirt you've ever seen he was on skateboard it was so radical it was mostly on model um and i could not wear it did bartman say something like you know West Virginia is cool, man. Like, you know, like, did it, did he say something that was completely out of character for Bart? Just so, you know, really, man.
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, no, it was, uh, no, this, this part did not have a speech bubble. Um, that's too bad. That's this. Yeah. No, those are always the best ones, you know? Yeah. Like, uh, yeah, no, this sadly, I mean, it was a pretty good bootleg.
00:12:07
Speaker
I stand with P O W M I A man. Like,
00:12:15
Speaker
I always think of like Rastafari and Bart merchandise and some stuff. I mean, bootlegs. Now, first of all, Ben, we don't have time to talk. Right. Yeah. So much. here's Here's the thing.
00:12:27
Speaker
we We need to have a bootleg Bart that is like, ah like kind of crossed with the the Punisher thin blue line. I stand with the cops, man.
00:12:39
Speaker
Wiggum's there. But he's like in tactical gear. Yeah.
00:12:44
Speaker
Yeah, we need to have a bootleg Bart that for all the like, you know, the right. i it Once again, I, you know, American right wing. I got notes. There are lot places where you could really up your game. There's lot of places. Listen, I just have notes.
00:13:00
Speaker
I just have notes. ah you know like They're just suggestions. yeah Just pick a fight with a TV show for being too rude, and then let's let's start you know getting ah some like mate some bootleg barts that are like espousing right wing causes like he's standing on like a ah ah ah skateboard laughing laughing vance twenty twenty eight man
00:13:31
Speaker
but That's right. That's right. Yeah. We need to have that. Like yeah just to balance out culture. Yeah. Like we just have to bring it back. I think that would, that would really heal so many of our cultural divisions. If we just brought those things back and there's one other thing I would like to bring ah to the world.
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
Family and Trivia Games
00:13:55
Speaker
There's one more thing, and that is a question. A very important question. just A quest question? A quest question.
00:14:05
Speaker
What have you been playing? Oh man, Ben, I have been deeply immersed computer adaptations of America's favorite game show.
00:14:17
Speaker
I've been playing a whole lot of Jeopardy games lately. I've just been- I love this answer, Jess. I love this answer. I have just been loading up different versions of Jeopardy on different platforms and just playing Jeopardy. your best answer to this question.
00:14:35
Speaker
that you've ever, like I've teased and I've made fun and I've given you trouble, that you're playing all sorts of Jeopardy's is the best thing you've ever said this segment ever. What do you like about it? I know what I like about What do you like about this answer?
00:14:51
Speaker
Because it's it's great. Like, because, because number one, it's it's very quintessentially you. Okay. It's checking out all, like, like being very thorough.
00:15:02
Speaker
Okay. About these different versions of Jeopardy. It's something that I just, you know, if somebody said, Ben, one of your friends is checking out all the different versions of Jeopardy.
00:15:15
Speaker
I'd be like, hmm. I'd stroke my long beard and then I'd go, I know who it is. First, before you get to it which ones are you playing? where What are these at? Which Jeopardy?
00:15:29
Speaker
Oh gosh, they're hard to keep straight because all of them tend to be named Jeopardy. I started with the ones I had as a kid, which were just the like DOS, Commodore.
00:15:42
Speaker
There was a Jeopardy, a Jeopardy second edition. Those are the four color CGA, just god-awful looking ones. think we had a Jeopardy for the PC Junior.
00:15:56
Speaker
And that same company, I believe, a ton of game show adaptations. They may have done remote control. That was terrible. Yeah, terrible.
00:16:07
Speaker
Terrible. Just terrible. I mean, started out with that one. That's the one I had as a kid. And then i' tried out a little bit of Jeopardy 25th Edition, 25th Anniversary Edition on DOS.
00:16:23
Speaker
I briefly played some Game Boy Jeopardy. I hit Jeopardy Deluxe Edition on Super NES and on PC. I worked my way up to a Windows 3.1 and then a second Windows 3.1 that was like a CD-ROM, like fully voiced, but they couldn't get Alex Trebek, so they just had a guy.
00:16:45
Speaker
They just had some guy. They just had some guy. He's wearing a gray suit, just like Alex Trebek might. But yeah, he was but Alex Trebek. And I think who is that one was just a guy.
00:16:58
Speaker
was just a guy, not a not a real. wast this Was it a digital sprite? Like, was it ah like a photo or was it like like pixel art of a man? It was a slightly animated FMV like. Oh, it was OK.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah, it was a man. It was. don't know if he's Canadian. It was hard to tell. He never mentioned it. Jess, do you remember when Alex Trebek was the moderator for a debate in Pennsylvania? I think people running for governor.
00:17:34
Speaker
This is in recent past. This was in the 21st century. No. He did a terrible job. No. ah deep Now, do you ever watch Jeopardy? Are you a Jeopardy's man?
00:17:51
Speaker
So, I, when, if Jeopardy is on, if I can watch it, I'll watch it. I'll absolutely watch it.
00:18:02
Speaker
The thing is, is that until, like, I think actually I just saw Ken Jennings post this on Blue Sky that they're finally making Jeopardy available for strephing.
00:18:17
Speaker
which like he said something like good news for, you know, non 70 year olds is in in Chicago. yeah Jeopardy plays at 3 PM. What?
00:18:28
Speaker
three p
00:18:32
Speaker
It's supposed to play at 7.30 p.m. No, and that's where to play. Well, because it was, and I'm sure this is how it is listz for you, like because it's of Fortune and then Jeopardy.
00:18:49
Speaker
That was how it was when I was back east, at least at my station when I was a kid. Yeah. And like for our foreign end listeners, if if you're unfamiliar with Jeopardy, don't know. I'm sure there are foreign adaptations. There have to be.
00:19:07
Speaker
But just a quiz show. It's a popular quiz show. Instead of answering questions, you're providing questions. Answering the form of a question. Yeah. Anyway.
00:19:19
Speaker
But so... And like, I'm working at three and I once, like, ah I once spoke to someone, I met somebody that worked at like, you know, our local like affiliate here in Chicago.
00:19:34
Speaker
And I said to her, I was like, why does Jeopardy play at like three in the afternoon? It's in the after, it's it's it's around that. Yeah. Like, why isn't it in the evening paired? Because Wheel Fortune plays in the evening.
00:19:50
Speaker
Yeah. But for some reason, Jeopardy! plays in the afternoon. They should go together because Wheel of Fortune is for slower-witted viewers. yeah Exactly, yeah. And you get them out of the way and then they go to bed 7.30 and then us Brainiacs step in for our game show. Did you did you see that that clip of someone recently, like, and this happens on Wheel Fortune, and, you know, I get it.
00:20:19
Speaker
It's hard to be on TV. Like somebody had the answer to like the puzzle ah on Wheel of Fortune and it was wrong. And then the next person goes up, it says the exact same wrong answer. Beautiful, beautiful.
00:20:35
Speaker
Absolutely beautiful. And I was just like, oh, all these co-workers are going to play that fucking clip for him. He's going to like walk back into the office and they're goingnna be like, hey, hey, hey, Clint.
00:20:49
Speaker
All right. So, so, so Jess, but yeah, I love, I'm not a regular reviewer. But you know, Jeopardy is a show, when I go and I stay with my parents, when I fly back and I stay with my parents during a holiday, we'll watch Jeopardy together. I think Jeopardy is a quintessential, you sit and you watch it with your parents' show.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yes. And eventually it's how you show that your dad, your dad that you're the man now. Dog. That's what I use it for. i use it to I use it to school and dunk on my father. It was much smarter than me in Jeopardy when I was like seven. yeah But now I'm a worldly man who has learned about so many subjects, including things like the arts.
00:21:37
Speaker
And
Game Design and Accessibility
00:21:38
Speaker
I returned to dunk on him. And the circle's complete. So is that all the, so you're up to Windows 3.1. Yeah. Generic man. Have you played any other ones?
00:21:49
Speaker
Not past that. My favorite is this weird version. I think it's Jeopardy. Like, I think it's just Jeopardy Deluxe Edition for Windows 3.1 before it became a multimedia. That's the one that hits the sweet spot for me of low tech enough to be silly, but high tech enough to kind of look like Jeopardy.
00:22:10
Speaker
Now, this is just, a so you're just talking about its aesthetics, but how is the the answer quality in it? Like how- By that time, it's not bad.
00:22:21
Speaker
It's like, they're re they're reasonable questions. They are- up to date, I'm sorry, that's a good point, 1994.
00:22:33
Speaker
Like the old CGA version just has crummy questions and a lot of times what it accepts is a correct answer and doesn't, it's parser is really poor. By the time you get to the Windows 3.1 versions, it's a decent game of Jeopardy. I might i might stream one of these bad boys.
00:22:50
Speaker
Is there multiplayer? we do that? Oh man, man. Virtual hot seat again. This is a good question. You probably smoked me because of like just our relative, like, because I'm sure that the questions are a lot more contemporary to like 1994. And because of yeah like our age difference, you'll probably like just beat the shit out of me. Those few years. Yeah, well, and again, that's what stream.
00:23:15
Speaker
That's what I play trivia for is to beat the shit out of people. That's all I care about. I get no satisfaction beyond that. So sign me up. But Ben, what have you been playing?
00:23:26
Speaker
I beat Rosewater. Oh, Rosewater, the new Western adventure? from storytelling yeah master Brian Moriarty. Master of Western storytelling.
00:23:41
Speaker
from our our hardest bombs games From our friend Francisco, who we had on the podcast, I completed it. Here's the thing about Rosewater is that it's a pretty sizable game. Now, I know that you've been working on it for a while, but Even so, it's just like, you know, you get an indie adventure game and in my mind, a long, like, and this really isn't be the case anymore, I think. Like, I think theyre they are slowly moving towards, like, kind of, you know, longer, longer games.
00:24:19
Speaker
Um... But that was, like, I think I beat it in 10 and a half, 11 hours. Wow. That is a beefy game. It is a full beefy game and...
00:24:32
Speaker
It's a beefy game where I didn't even see everything in it, which is one of the nice, I enjoyed myself. what What is fun about it is, is that it has different puzzle solutions. And then also like the center, like two thirds of the game is like this a road trip part.
00:24:54
Speaker
and it is like broken into like these little episodes and vignettes, which is really great. This is why i took so long to to be Rosewater is that I would like just pick it up, complete one of those vignettes or those episodes and i put it back down and you know, come back to it like a little while later.
00:25:13
Speaker
That's fantastic though. du Not enough adventure games can give you those little bike size experiences. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And the vignettes, like, you can get different ones depending on, like there's like, there's a bunch of people in your your road trip party.
00:25:31
Speaker
Those can be different based off of how you've solved puzzles with them. And so it's like, I've beaten it once and there's like, especially like kind of peering at the achievements.
00:25:43
Speaker
there's like definitely some stuff that like I didn't see. i don't think it's, I don't believe that you're able to see everything in one qua through. I think it's design Well, no, yeah, because, yeah, because there are certain puzzles that you can only solve.
00:26:00
Speaker
Like, you know, it's like, oh, do you go this way or do you go this way? You know, like kind of like a, like a favorite planet, uh, in, in, with some puzzles. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, like I really enjoyed myself.
00:26:14
Speaker
Also, uh, I, I never, We're picked up a walkthrough. Never looked up a hint. I solved it all.
00:26:26
Speaker
It is like, it's not like a walking simulator, but it's not like, you know, it's not hard. Like, but it You know, like all the the puzzles are are very eminently solvable. You know, you just go around you look at everything, you talk to everybody. Like it's it's just, a it plays fair with you.
00:26:47
Speaker
And we've talked about this. now For us, that difficulty level is right on target. Yeah. No, that sounds fantastic. I have it on my to play soon list, so I'm really looking forward to jumping into it.
00:27:01
Speaker
I've only heard good things. All of our listeners should, of course, go out and pick up a copy of Rosewater. Legally, that's important to say. Ben will tell you pirate, but I don't believe any of that. That's how he got his copy, but, you know, I paid for mine on Steam.
00:27:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:22
Speaker
He went to a GOG crack site and just started downloading anything his hands on. He said, if like it, I'll pay for it after, but I haven't seen him cut a check. All right. ah
00:27:37
Speaker
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's not true. Francisco, if you're listening, that's not true. Ben showed you his receipt just now. He held it up. It's handwritten, which is odd, but yeah, I don't know. i gavebe Gabe handwrites me ah receipts and mails them to me from New Zealand.
00:27:52
Speaker
um So we do have an email that I am not going to read. i'm just acknowledging receipt. ah from we have yeah we We got a ah very fun ah request quest.
00:28:07
Speaker
And and i'll I'll say it. well We'll read it when we get to the episode. But I would, you know what? I'll solicit emails here to see if anybody has any thoughts of their own.
00:28:19
Speaker
um is we We got an email from our friends at the Yum Yum podcast ah who, or at least my friends, you know, Jess doesn't know them.
00:28:30
Speaker
I've been on their podcast. Jess doesn't. Wow, haven't even been invited. No. uh but uh but but uh they uh uh yum yum had a pretty good question which was it's like you you've spoke uh like we've been talking a lot about uh american adventure games what are some interesting foreign adventure games and what are like and and is there ah like are there any differences or anything like very distinct um
00:29:05
Speaker
Now, ah we'll, and I'll read the full email ah when when we talk about that in that episode. And,
Future Topics Teaser
00:29:13
Speaker
you know, we definitely have, like, i I've played a bunch of ah everything, as has Jess. We'll talk about that then. But if you have a favorite non-American, non-United States fan,
00:29:28
Speaker
uh uh adventure game uh that uh that that you have uh shoot us an email at quest quest podcast at gmail.com and bonus points uh if it is not uh like if it if it if it has a very different kind of game feel than yeah because that's letter or like a lucas yeah and especially if it's a non-english game uh yeah because i'm expecting that's where ben and i have the least experience yep yep i mean other than you know the uh the french games that made it over here but we'll get there when we go we're both fluent in french so that's easy for us yeah uh je suis en june fille
00:30:13
Speaker
Oh, that's French I'm speaking. I'm not French. sayre I'm American. All right,
Mystery Adventure Games
00:30:20
Speaker
folks. I won't keep the theme of this episode a mystery any longer.
00:30:27
Speaker
What is it?
00:30:31
Speaker
ah Folks, we're discussing ah mystery adventure games today. ah Mystery adventure games. i You know, Jess, you've played on your stream a bunch of mystery adventure games. I've played a bunch of mystery adventure games on my stream as well.
00:30:52
Speaker
ah And I thought it's kind of an interesting... Because on one hand, if like it it seems like it would be something that kind of ah fits so nicely ian with ah the like adventure games in general, right? like Right. Adventure games are all about solving problems and yeah and figuring things out. I mean, yeah, it dovetails nicely with mystery as a genre.
00:31:24
Speaker
And I suspect that's one of the reasons we see mystery games going all the way back to the earliest years i mean infocom uh produced its fair share of mystery games what deadline the deadline witness suspect those were those were three and those are interesting have you ever played any of those have you ever played not so those are like when we were uh talking about this episode
00:31:55
Speaker
ah we were kind of talking about like how you divide up some ah mystery adventure games and deadline.
00:32:07
Speaker
and I believe the, the later ones too, I forget deadline's the first one. It's as unfortunately, this is all kind of fuzzy. So you're the first of the three, if you're an info com head, my apologies.
00:32:21
Speaker
But the thing is, is that, uh, at least that that first one I recall is like, it's set on kind of a timer. And so it's like you have the, Oh, deadline. Okay. Actually. Right.
00:32:36
Speaker
And so you have the, the people moving around in like the, the space, I believe the mansion. And so you're, you're kind of observing and all of that.
00:32:49
Speaker
And, the design of the game is built into, like, it's built into that you learn stuff and then you die. Right?
00:33:00
Speaker
Like, that is, that is the the design of the game is is that you kind of figure out, it's like, okay, well, this person's here at this time. Okay, all right, let me write that down. and It's like, okay, this person's here at this time. Okay, wait, all right, that item, ah like, so it allows you, like, you solve the mystery in that way.
00:33:19
Speaker
and so, like uh know when jess and i were talking about this if there are two kinds i would say and broadly i think you could break it out even further within there but two kinds of adventure like uh mystery adventure games one where mystery is the narrative of the game and one where mystery is the game itself Right. Yeah, I think there are a lot of games out there that adopt the aesthetics and the genre of mystery.
00:33:56
Speaker
But in terms of games that actually involve the process of solving a mystery, of making deductions, of eliminating suspects, of, you know, sort of using logic to piece together all of these clues and things, those are a little bit rare.
00:34:11
Speaker
um You know, I think that oftentimes what we find is these sorts of adventure games because of the linear nature of most adventure games, because of the puzzle solving mechanic, oftentimes while the genre may be mystery,
00:34:28
Speaker
it's much more that just as you proceed through the puzzles, it gradually reveals the solution to the mystery to you. Like, I'm not sure, like in Gabriel Knight one, you know, does Gabriel Knight do a ton of detecting so much as once you eventually click on all the right things, it just reveals sort of the next piece of the puzzle to, right?
00:34:53
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know that you're, you're never having to make logical leaps. There's no room to, deduce much less to deduce incorrectly yeah you're not you're not playing when you're like you're Like as a player that's invested in the story of Gabriel Knight, you are ah like probably thinking like, oh, I wonder what's going to happen next.
00:35:16
Speaker
Oh, ah do I think, you know, this might happen next. You know, you you might be like kind of, you know, thinking through the mystery as you play it. But all the puzzles in Gabriel Knight are generally informed by like their adventure game puzzles.
00:35:33
Speaker
they are like i have to get a mime to harass this policeman uh i have to distract mosley long enough to get in his file cabinet or whatever yeah just classic lots of distracting people just like yeah and yeah weirdly gabriel uses a mime every single time it's weird yeah that yeah Well, Gabriel, like it's, it's, you know, Gabriel is from a long line of, uh, Frenchmen because as you know, like New Orleans, one of, uh, like, you know, used to be, uh, a, a ah French colonial, ah city.
00:36:10
Speaker
So Gabriel actually, like, that's really part of the story of that whole series is Gabriel becoming, yeah getting in touch with, with like ah the the mime history of his family. That's why they're called the Schoenjagers.
00:36:30
Speaker
I mean, I was building a long runway just hoping that you had like a joke. Like, and and I was rewarded. ah there it is. It wasn't a good joke, but we got it out there. That's the important thing. thought that was a good joke. They can all be winners. But no, mean, this is much more common. You know, this sort of process, you know,
00:36:47
Speaker
ah going all the way back to you know Ben have you played Mystery House? Have you played? No, I was going to ask you this. Yeah, if you played at Mystery House, Roberto Williams. Yeah, Roberto Williams is ah first game the first what's generally recognized as the first adventure game with graphics.
00:37:06
Speaker
gotta tell you they're not great graphics. um I think it's honestly beautiful. Just you're terrible. I think they're absolutely gorgeous and perfect graphics. Well, you love minimalism and you know me, I'm a maximalist in every sense of the word.
00:37:20
Speaker
I think they're so beautiful. I, yeah every time I see that crudely drawn house, I'm like, ah Well, if you like crudely drawn houses, wait until you play with its crudely designed parser.
00:37:31
Speaker
I mean, not not to dunk on. I mean, yeah, this is a groundbreaking, hugely important game. ah But I mean, again, very simple, ah very by the numbers sort of. Did you scream that? Like, I know you played a couple of the high res. Oh, yeah, that was that was a long time ago long a long time ago. Yeah, I remember very little of But again, given its rudimentary form, there's not much room for solving a mystery. It's more, can you survive these murders long enough until eventually you're just down to you were and the murderer and that's how you figure out who done it.
00:38:06
Speaker
um So, and I mean, I guess would ask, you know, we talked about these two categories of games, games that have mystery as sort of the the genre the aesthetic whatever versus those that involve solving a mystery where do we think like maybe the colonel's bequest and dagger of ominous and are they different from what are those okay those are both of them are solving uh so the lore bow games uh by sierra um
00:38:37
Speaker
those games are about like kind of exploration deduction and there are adventure game puzzles in them. There's more kind of adventure game puzzles in Amon-Ra, right? It's like, yeah. Colonel's Bequest has a lot of like, just kind of like snooping around and listening and talking to people just kind being in the right place at the right time. Yeah. Which I kind love.
00:39:03
Speaker
I like that it is less puzzly in that sense. Like, yeah, you're just in a big house with a bunch of secret, ah like with a ah bunch of, you know, little secret passages, um which are very important in a mystery.
00:39:18
Speaker
that's the thing is that's why there's no such thing as a mystery in the real world, ah ah because there aren't that many secret passages because you have to have a secret passage. if There's going to be a mystery.
00:39:29
Speaker
That's one. If you don't have a hidden point of egress. I don't know how you're having any kind of true mystery. Yeah. Are you going to walk through a door and murder somebody? No.
00:39:41
Speaker
You're go walk to a bookcase and murder somebody. Yes. You're going to squeeze into the dumbwaiter. man. that Yeah, I mean, the the Laura Bow games, ah both, and and I'll lump in Crimson Diamond, which is a Laura Bow tribute style game.
00:40:04
Speaker
Those are all, ah and and all three of them have like kind of adventure game puzzles um and like kind of it event advancing narrative in kind of a adventure game like, you know, traditional, let's say, adventure game way, but all of them require you to, like, if if you want to get the best possible ending, to, like, constantly be, like, observing and ask the right questions and get, like,
00:40:39
Speaker
ah get the correct like evidence and all your other clues I mean I know the first time I played Carl's Bequest I went through that game and finished it and neither Laura Bode nor I knew a dang thing that happened.
00:40:56
Speaker
Like I not listened
Puzzle Design Critique
00:40:58
Speaker
to the right conversations. I hadn't found the secret passages. I didn't ask people about the right things. And importantly, I drew the wrong conclusion at the end because you are presented with the opportunity based on everything, you know, at the end of this game, who is the murderer?
00:41:13
Speaker
And you can get it wrong in that game. Yeah. ah Which that again, I think that's a good get it wrong in all three. Like, yeah, that's right. It makes it closer to solving at that point. Cause you're having put evidence together to deduce and draw conclusions ultimately, which I do think is it more of that solving element that maybe you're like Gabriel, not one, I think is light on.
00:41:36
Speaker
um I would argue maybe Gabriel, not three, wraps back around to it and with some of the bits with the Sydney computer stuff the ah um that grace does did you did you eat something are you okay are you having a little like you know is there something Like, what did you have for dinner?
00:42:01
Speaker
Oreos? oh ah You know, Ben, a big bowl of was light on work Since the last time we talked, didn't you tell me that there were now salted pretzel Oreos? ah Chocolate pretzel.
00:42:16
Speaker
Chocolate pretzel Oreos. Because, you yeah, chocolate pretzel Oreos. Yeah. Chocolate pretzel Oreos. I mean, we can't really get off on this tangent, but have you tried them yet? No, but I go to like a tiny little grocery store. Like I go to like, I haven't been looking for them. Also, the thing is, is that my Oreo love affair was ah almost entirely confined to 2020.
00:42:42
Speaker
Like Oreos were like a nice little stay at home treat while I was like sad and alone couldn't leave the house. not the first person who's turned to Oreos when sad and alone. So that makes a lot of sense. Right.
00:42:56
Speaker
And, and so it's like, I mean, I'm not going to say that Oreos are like kind of tarnished and, you know, remind me of that really awful year. Um, but, but no, I haven't had that many Oreos since the year 2020. No, but for dinner, I had steak salad.
00:43:14
Speaker
Um, what was like I think for me, Gabriel, not three. I mean, I was making ah sort of upset tummy noises. That was serpent rouge.
00:43:28
Speaker
Again, fluent French. um That means that means that means the roguish sea serpent. But that whole puzzle with grace having to like tap into her sacred geometry learnings and put together a whole.
00:43:43
Speaker
ah we We've talked about this. That that is one of the where puzzles. With its own Wikipedia page. Yeah. And I hate it, and but it is probably one of the cases where the Gabriel not series gets the closest to you're really having to apply information, draw some conclusions, piece together some clues. Right.
00:44:06
Speaker
And I mean, and for me, it was incomprehensible. yes Here's important question for you, Jess. So this is kind of on topic. How big does this podcast have to get before your dis dislike of this puzzle ends up on the reception ah page of this Wikipedia? Like, oh this it feels like it feels like we have to...
00:44:30
Speaker
get a little bigger before we can end up on the reception because there's reception. It's like Le Serpent Rouge puzzle received generally positive reception, identified it as both a renowned and revered puzzle by Incubator Games CEO Reddick Conchwitz.
00:44:50
Speaker
Apologies if I mispronounce your last name, sir. and writer Jack Allen, ah respectively. It is regarded by adventure game fans as one of the greatest puzzles ever created. Citation needed.
00:45:05
Speaker
Now there's a citation right here. Citation A. goes to Edge Magazine.
00:45:13
Speaker
and It goes to Edge Magazine number 36. Doesn't say what page. um That was like contemporaneous. Edge Magazine number 36 would have been like when that game was out.
00:45:26
Speaker
Come on. Like a year or two. Come on. Let's go Archive. We're going to check out Edge Gaming. All right. So wait. Okay.
00:45:40
Speaker
Let's see. All right. So that is it. It is, of course, on ah the Internet Archive. Edge. Edge Magazine number 36 was. wise oh it has like this you know y2k style it makes it kind of hard to to read come on what when was this okay let me see if can get you an answer this is going to be ah edge magazine number 36 okay buckle in that's september 1996 which the game here's capril yeah wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute
00:46:23
Speaker
Ah, that's... No, I don't believe that's correct. That's three years before it came out. yeah but i No, no. I'm looking at the cover. we have to call up Grayson. ah We have to call up Grayson right get on the line? you get him on speakerphone?
00:46:37
Speaker
We have to call up Grayson right now. Oh, my gosh. This is the biggest case that this podcast has ever... We have to be on the reception because...
00:46:48
Speaker
theres There's been this citation that's been sitting there. Who knows how long? I don't know how to check the edit history. We deserve to be there. So we could say just a professor, just more is set.
00:47:03
Speaker
ah professor PhD that's right MA BA BA hates this puzzle also and then this will have a rare apology am within the the on the Wikipedia page where we'll be like also we're so sorry before it said that this was one of the greatest puzzles of all time we cited Edge edge Magazine and we were wrong now I've never been this furious in my life, but we did solve a mystery.
00:47:36
Speaker
We did solve
Defining Mystery Games
00:47:37
Speaker
a mystery. You know what is ah another good... wouldy all right, here's a question. Would you call Hypnospace Outlaw a mystery game?
00:47:47
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Great. Because yes. Absolutely. ah Yes, because yes. i Because it's it's a game about... like kind of observing and piecing together, clues and kind of navigating.
00:48:05
Speaker
And so then therefore I would also add like her story yeah and telling lies and, uh, ah, shit. What's the other, the, the, the other FMV Sam Barlow, uh, are you thinking, uh, of the, the actress,
00:48:24
Speaker
immortality immortality thank you um yeah like all those are mysteries like you're piecing because those games uh like the so so like laura bow and crimson diamond in those games have kind of like you know very explicitly are tributes to agatha christie absolutely yeah no question and they all kind of end with like kind of a drawing room uh uh like you know reveal game like hypnospace outlaw where uh you know all those sam barlow fmv games i just mentioned uh those are about ah observing and like piecing together and you could say well it's like well then like then like isn't like king's quest one a mystery game no
00:49:22
Speaker
And I won't extrapolate. If you say that, you're stupid. um Yeah, I mean, come on. come on Come on. yeah Come on. No. come ah Come on. No. Come on.
00:49:36
Speaker
No. No. No. All right. I've actually and've got an email here from a listener. don't know how they're sending this or as we're recording it, but says, what about King's Quest 1? And I guess to them, I'd say no.
00:49:48
Speaker
No. No, absolutely no. No, no. I mean, he's wearing the wrong kind of hat. First of all. Yeah. if That's right. Wrong. Now, uh, jazz, what type of mystery game would you say? Uh, Hugo to colon who done it.
00:50:06
Speaker
I've never played Hugo to colon who done it. I've actually never played any of the Hugo games. Oh, you should, you should, you should stream them. That's a, that's a one night stream where you got off.
00:50:18
Speaker
ah two of them and probably skip the third. ah How, I mean, does it rise the level of mystery? No. Okay. It's just it's barely, if it barely is a good event. Like, I mean, I wouldn't call it a good adventure game.
00:50:30
Speaker
I would call it charming and strange, um but I wouldn't call it good because it's the, the mystery is just the plot of it.
00:50:43
Speaker
It has nothing to do with what you're solving. And, ah like there's, it's, it's just like, And in Hugo to whodunit, you're just kind of wandering around the backyard of a mansion for the bulk of the game, just solving arbitrary ah like mysteries until you end up back in the ah mystery house.
00:51:08
Speaker
And like some plot happens and then the game's over. Ben, have you ever played? I like now we're just asking if we've played games back and forth. This is good content. Have you ever played Caper and the Castro?
00:51:22
Speaker
No, I've heard about that. that's ah that That is a ah historically significant LGBTQ. uh uh game uh what is caper in the castro i know the answer to this but jess please go ahead yeah i mean you you've summed up a lot of that it's a uh it's ah a mackintosh uh mystery uh that again yeah there's uh i believe a famous drag queen in the castro district who's uh who's gone missing And you are the private investigator who has to carry out this this investigation ah to track them down.
00:51:56
Speaker
um Again, it's significant because it is, you're generally recognized as the first explicitly LGBTQ game, which is to say, know, actively engaging with LGBTQ themes.
00:52:10
Speaker
um It's also notable it was released as charity wear ah with the game urging ah players in 1989 to donate to various age charities if they enjoyed the game.
00:52:23
Speaker
It was also later re-released for commercial purposes after being completely straight-washed. Yeah, there were I knew that. I knew that there was a straight-washed version of it. Have you played either of these?
00:52:34
Speaker
I've played ah the original, ah the caper and the Castro before it was was washed. I mean, and it's it's a very simple. I mean, where it's fun is just with some of the humor and the wordplay and the the ridiculous ah names of the characters like I want to think.
00:52:53
Speaker
the guy who kidnaps the world famous drag queen is maybe named something like Duncan straight man or something. Great. Perfect. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's fun. It's fun in, in sort of a, a silly way. ah But you know, again, it's an interesting early example all the way back in 89.
00:53:12
Speaker
Now, what I haven't played that I think our, Oh man, our listeners would be so mad if we didn't talk about this series that know you have more experience with. been tex murphy yes is tex murphy yes solving mysteries or is it a mystery story without much uh mystery solving in it so it's and there's a little bit i would i would say that the so i've only played under a killing moon uh which is a game that i adore um i i i really had a great time playing tex murphy under a killing moon and i recommend it to anyone it has a deeply unpleasant uh movement scheme but once you get over that it's fine you'll get over it it's okay they grow up grow up come up come on and
00:54:03
Speaker
ah first and no grow up anyway yeah just yeah come on come on come on just and come on yeah how about it um now uh so tex murphy is i would say it's a little bit of a combination like it is ah under a killing moon is ah generally kind of linear and ah puzzles And then I know that like ah the Pandora directive is very branching and has a bunch of ah like roots and and stuff like that. And I believe that is also the case maybe with Overseer and I haven't played the Tesla effect. I don't know too much about that one.
00:54:50
Speaker
um But I would say it's a mystery game ah because like Or it's more of ah like an experiential mystery game in the sense that one of the reasons that I loved, I had such a good time playing with Tex Murphy, playing Under a Killing Moon.
00:55:14
Speaker
um and ah Beyond the fact that it has extremely charming low-rent FMV, yeah which which I really enjoyed.
00:55:26
Speaker
With some great... like hard boiled detective, ah narration and some wonderful things like that. Very funny game. It knows, it knows what it is. It knows that it's like a corny little light. Absolutely. Uh, but anyway,
00:55:42
Speaker
So it's an early ah three d game. um you're like So this is this is where like the movement is such a terrible pain in the ass. is
Sherlock Holmes Games and Mechanics
00:55:54
Speaker
like you're You're moving around 3D space and the controls for it are like you move forward by moving your mouse forward. It's terrible.
00:56:02
Speaker
Anyway, ah but the what is so cool about that is that you do a lot of observing and exploring spaces as this detective.
00:56:22
Speaker
And, uh, I, iy I had such a when I played it, which I think was like 2022 or something, it was a couple years ago. Uh, you know, even like later,
00:56:40
Speaker
i it It felt like something I had never played before. This exploring and snooping around three d spaces and finding things and like putting together clues ah and like tracking ah movement in 3D spaces was something because you know the majority...
00:57:10
Speaker
of adventure games are R2D, uh, or at the least aren't like free movement 3D. So it's like, so missed, which is like very, uh, like, i like about observing and piecing together. It's Mr. Mysteries, and mystery game. Uh, yeah, we'll come back to that.
00:57:31
Speaker
Uh, but, um, like uh, I think that the way that it provides you with what you like to solve the puzzles is very like mystery like, you know, in the sense that like versus it's like you have to, you know, have a mime. That classic chestnut.
00:58:01
Speaker
but classic chestnut Is Mist a mystery game? I don't have the answer to that. I don't think it is, but it's practically, you can't spell mystery without Mist. I mean, it's kind of right there. It's kind of saying that to you. I mean, it is like by our extremely broad. Oh, Pist is absolutely, but by our extremely broad definition, like sure, because like Mist is all about observation,
00:58:30
Speaker
but i
00:58:33
Speaker
I think it's more about kind of like that pure, like,
00:58:40
Speaker
you're not really like kind of solving like a mystery crime. um No. Jules Verne is a different section of the library than Agatha Christie. There you go. All right. Case closed.
00:58:51
Speaker
Another. now Now, speaking of trips to the library, Jess, I know you've played a bunch of, similar to that you've played a million different versions of Jeopardy, I know you've played a fair amount of adaptations of Sherlock Holmes.
00:59:11
Speaker
Most recently, You played what that 1992 93 one, right? Yeah. The serrated scalpel. ah That one was, was quite a bit of fun. I enjoyed that one. It's very much a standard point and click game. I think it's a great example. And first of all, it's a game with some gorgeous pixel art, some interesting puzzles, some moon logic puzzles that no human being could reasonably solve, but it's a charming enough game, but definitely I think it falls into that category of you solve adventure game puzzles.
00:59:42
Speaker
And then it reveals the mystery to you as you move forward. There's not a whole lot of deduction. There is some evidence gathering and some cross-referencing some files and some things like that.
00:59:52
Speaker
This is tying now. I think i think to to help the the definition here, it's that... the deduction action that you do kind of moves like the story forward as opposed to puzzles that are just like kind of there because it's an adventure game and they're just kind of blocks.
01:00:11
Speaker
Right. Absolutely. i also played the full motion video Sherlock Holmes consulting detective, which if you've ever played the board game, version of that it is literally exactly like the board game um down to using the same cases as the board game uses i believe those fmvs at least one of them uh has ah from uh the science like the sci-fi channel uh seasons of mystery science theater uh has uh bill corbett who voiced crow
01:00:42
Speaker
A younger, like when he was in his twenty Interesting. Like a younger ah Bill Corbett, who was Crow and Brain Guy. yeah i believe he's in in those. I know he's in some FMV Sherlock Holmes.
01:00:58
Speaker
Yeah. And those are a little bit more deduction based and there's room to get them wrong and things like that. You know, maybe the Sherlock Holmes games, they're most fascinating to me though.
01:01:10
Speaker
And this goes back, I think at some level to your talking about Tex Murphy and how fun it was in this 3D space to poke around and look for clues and things like that.
01:01:22
Speaker
Frogwares, Sherlock Holmes games. um They've developed a number of games ah through the years. Ukrainian developer, Frogwares. um Two of their, I should say are their two most recent now, Sherlock Holmes Chapter One and Sherlock Holmes The Awakened, which is actually a remake of an earlier 2007 game.
01:01:44
Speaker
ah both fantastic games. And what I love about these is a, they are sort of free form, almost open worldy type games where you're running around in third person as Sherlock Holmes. There's some light combat here and there, but for the most part, it's mystery solving. You're going from case to case investigating.
01:02:05
Speaker
um Chapter one is especially ah focused on that open world element where you're kind of going out in search of cases and you have this whole island of Cordona that you're exploring with your childhood pal, ah John.
01:02:22
Speaker
ah This ah is just a fantastic game in the sense that it not only gives you that 3D experience if I'm on a crime scene and I'm actually having to examine clues to figure things out, but it also uses the mechanic of sort of the the mind palace. Okay.
01:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, where you, to once you gather pieces of evidence, you can go into deduction mode where you're literally stringing together you know, a suspect with a piece of evidence you found and a possible motive you heard somewhere else and putting them together.
01:02:58
Speaker
And then sometimes they coalesce into, okay, I've made a deduction that's now part of my notebook, basically. Is that... and and You finish your thoughts. All right, go ahead. And was gonna say, and, and sometimes you can draw the wrong conclusions. You can accuse the wrong person. the game keeps it ambiguous. I mean, it is very much, if we're talking about game based around piecing together evidence of making your own deductions,
01:03:25
Speaker
those more recent frogware Sherlock Holmes games do that beautifully. I'll have to check those out. I haven't played those. I was Ben. I think you will love chapter one. The awakened is very good too. The awakened is a Cthulhu story. Like Holmes stumbles across ah a Cthulhu style cult in London and it sends him on a adventure that takes him all the way to new Orleans and back.
01:03:50
Speaker
But it's, Both of them are fantastic. is But chapter one is really a beautifully designed and just like wonderful mysteries. the The character of John, your sidekick, ah is is really top notch. I think you would love that. i think all of our listeners, with every one of them, who I don't even know a lot of them, would all enjoy Sherlock Holmes chapter I don't know about a hundred people. Are you kidding me?
01:04:16
Speaker
ah yeah No, like I know you. Yeah. Grayson. Right. Yeah. Francisco. Yeah. Francisco, Richard. Yeah. Richard. That's it. Yeah. That's pretty much your everybody. I know. Yeah. That's, that's it. Yeah. That's the, that's the exhaustive list.
01:04:31
Speaker
ah I was going to say when you're talking about the mind palace, is that kind of like how in a black? Well, like you can similar to that. Yeah. Like in, in black, well, there's a similar mechanic where it's like you can combine, like you have a notebook and,
01:04:48
Speaker
which and I believe Dave Gilbert said that he, he took that from disc world noir, which is ah game. Neither of us have played. Yes. It's also very relevant there as to get working. yeah But I think a lot of people say is the best disc world game.
01:05:03
Speaker
um Yeah. But ah in, in black, well, you can take like two ideas and like combine them. And that kind of helps you ah like, you know, as you, you try to solve your little ghost mysteries.
01:05:17
Speaker
Yeah. right i mean it's very it's sort of a more elaborate version of that right but very similar there's also a similar mechanic yeah there's a similar mechanic in alan wake too uh which isn't exactly an adventure game but also isn't exactly not an adventure game probably in some ways so um yeah i like that element for for me it was one of the first detective games where like it kind of got that magic.
01:05:45
Speaker
I felt like I had combined things right in this completely like unique to me, creative way. that's what It's like, no, those two items just wouldn't have combined together if there was no, yeah no logical link between them.
01:06:00
Speaker
But it gave me that creative spark that mystery solving its best form should. Maybe. That feeling like when you figure out a mystery before you get to the last chapter of the novel. right Maybe we'll put that on our street. i um You know, maybe I'll say that's,
01:06:13
Speaker
maybe just maybe that will be your redemption uh uh uh recommendation ben i think you'll love it it's i i think that one i feel pretty confident about yeah i everyone i know who's played it is just like this is a good game i know grayson and i don't mean to talk about grayson so much i'd rather be talking about oreos than grayson yeah me too but i'd rather be talking about hydrox and talking about grayson Got
Board Games and Video Adaptations
01:06:40
Speaker
it.
01:06:40
Speaker
Got it in there. Nice job. There we go. But there we go. But no, mean, those, those, I would definitely recommend more so than some of the other Sherlock Holmes games I've played on. So again, I don't, I didn't love consulting detective. It's very tedious in the same way. The board game. That's the FMV one. Yeah. And it's, have you played the board game, Ben?
01:07:01
Speaker
I've not, I don't, don't know if I've played any Sherlock Holmes game. The board game for consulting detective like comes with a big map of London and a bunch of newspapers that you have to comb through every day and like look for clues and those. And then like a reference book that tells you locations to go to. and it's almost like that becomes like a choose your own adventure where if you go to the right location as part of the right like case that you're on it may have like, Oh, you arrived there and there's a person you can talk to and you find out an important clue.
01:07:36
Speaker
And then others, if you've gotten it wrong, you just kind of get like nothing when you arrive at those places. It's nice in the sense that can be played as a single player, ah board game, but ultimately, i don't know. It's, it has this mechanic and that, uh,
01:07:54
Speaker
ugh the the video game has it too where it's like Holmes solved this case in four moves how many did it take you well it took me 34 so I guess I'm just not as good as Sherlock Holmes so this was like a VHS board game like that uh famous Klingon uh Star Trek board the edition I have is not a VHS it's just a straight up board game with a whole bunch of abilities in the laser disc yeah it's straight up laser disc which since don't have a player i kind of had to like hold it up to the light and try to guess yeah like you squint at it and you're like i think you know like if if you look close enough you could read it yeah um sherlock holmes i think is saying i'm his best friend yeah
01:08:36
Speaker
yeah yeah thing you're very smart and handsome that's what i want to hear from from sherlock holmes because if he says it it must be true you know also on the literary front uh those of you who've watched uh my stream know that uh we played one of uh the uh nancy drew games uh our stream which we've been thinking about returning Really? I thought you swore you would never play another Nancy Drew game. I didn't have a good time, but but sometimes, you know, as we talked about when we talked about streaming adventure games, sometimes not having a good time is a good time for others. Yeah.
01:09:18
Speaker
Sometimes. Exactly. Exactly.
Nancy Drew Game Discussion
01:09:20
Speaker
I was just trying to repeat exactly what you were going to say. i don't know what I was trying to say there. ah Yeah. um I mean, you know, listen, I'm playing a dog shit game right now as we record. I'll probably be done by the time this comes out, but it's like we're playing ah Amazon Guardians of Eden.
01:09:38
Speaker
That game sucks, man. Like, it's not yeah fun to play. like It's no flat of the Amazon queen. Yeah. ah But no... ive know That my game looks miserable. I had never played it before.
01:09:51
Speaker
and Like I said, I'd been circling that one and I'm glad that I never got around. I'm glad you got to it first. Yeah. ah But ah so the the Nancy Drew, so we played Warnings at Waverly Academy. and ah like I think two years ago and I was really excited to play this because i was just like oh man there's a million of these Nancy Drew games and people love them and then yeah and they have quite the whole interactive games yeah mean and these are important games historically within within the industry in terms of know games that guess were you know created in terms that's right that's right I'm the best guy just want to stress how important these games were yeah and how many people loved them
01:10:32
Speaker
yeah please continue Ben why didn't you like this uh female-led game because it wasn't fun like I didn't have a good time it wasn't fun to play ah like the uh the the the thing about it is that it like I I was really excited because I was like oh this is gonna be a mystery game and we're gonna solve mystery stuff and I'm gonna like and it's a game made for like kids so that will be nice too it'll be this it should be charming it'll be this charming low difficulty kids mystery game and what instead was was just like there there were charming like in and the thing about the her interactive games and this is fine is that they're why like they're super low budget like that's but one of the reasons why they're able to make ah ah million of them
01:11:26
Speaker
i like they're they're super low budget. So it's like, you don't have that that much to really explore. And it's like, you just kind of have like a couple people you go around talking to.
01:11:38
Speaker
And it felt to me like you weren't really doing that much. Like there was a little bit of mystery like solving, but a lot of it was like kind of busy work puzzles and also like doing chores for people. Yeah. Didn't you like have to work as a frat cook or something as part of this game?
01:11:57
Speaker
Yes. There was a mini game that you were required to play. There were a couple mini games you were required to play, but the most annoying one was that you worked at a snack bar and you would like, like it was kind of like a,
01:12:11
Speaker
working at the monolith burger and space quest for like, it was just like, you kind of assemble people's snack bar orders on a timer. It's just not fun.
01:12:22
Speaker
Like it just wasn't, it's just like, get this, this, and this. And it's like, okay, all right, now get this, this, and this. Okay. Like there, there wasn't anything fun about it. Like it wasn't that entertaining.
01:12:35
Speaker
And yeah, and Like that was my experience with a lot of it was, it was just like a lot of stuff where i was just like, yeah. Yeah.
01:12:48
Speaker
Yeah. And, and like some of the puzzles, I was like, again, that was like, this is made for kids. Some of those puzzles were hard. um ah Smart kids out there. Yeah. oh you Listen, a lot of kids are smarter than me.
01:13:01
Speaker
um move the Yeah. You don't, you don't have to send us an email at quest quest podcast at gmail.com and say, I solved all of the Nancy Drew games on the hardest setting.
01:13:12
Speaker
And I was 12 to which I say, great. um Ben, is Police Quest 4 open season ah mystery game? Yeah. You're a mystery detective in it. mystery is, why did they make this?
01:13:28
Speaker
And you're using your deductive skills as you go from scene to scene and go, yeah You know, Ben, own a boxed copy of open season now. Why?
01:13:41
Speaker
Because I was at Half Press Books and it was sitting there at a low cost. I never imagined buying it, but then i'm just like, well, there's a Sierra game sitting right there. Now, notably, it's for like objectively and subjectively,
01:13:56
Speaker
one of if not the worst game they ever made that that's like yeah that's a that's all it's kind of problematic that own it the more i think about it but you know it doesn't have i don't believe if you if you get it um like if you purchase it as part of like the police quest collection uh it comes with this maybe it does i believe that uh open season came with like uh a video interview with daryl uh gates i think where like he talks about how he was so cruelly treated ah by the media yeah so that's cool
01:14:36
Speaker
know, I was just reading an interview with the disgraced l LAPD police chief, Daryl Gates, from an old issue of Interaction magazine just yesterday. bay And he was talking about how important it is to remember that the police are part of the community, not separate from it. And, you know, that we should always remember that. And boy, Daryl Gates, a great, great person to bring on board ah to replace one of the greatest adventure game designers of our time and a true mystery man himself.
01:15:06
Speaker
Jim walls I mean my understanding is that Daryl Gates didn't really get his hands dirty with the design of ah open season in the way that ah Jim walls ah this brought him in to do a quick racist pass at the screen yeah like he just is like make it a little more racist please But that's not a mystery. He's a racist. so ah God rest his soul.
01:15:30
Speaker
um But, um ah but ah but yeah, the Nancy Drew games, I didn't enjoy the one I played. And Grayson said to me, Ben, maybe we should play another one recently. And I was like, sounds great. Sounds like a lot of fun versus.
01:15:48
Speaker
I know I'm not going to have a good time. Even talking about it. Like now I'm just starting to feel. Yeah. Ben, just play Sherlock Holmes chapter one. Well, no, I mean, I'll probably play both at the same time. oh Yeah.
01:16:03
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. That's what I'm going to do. right. You can get twice as
Closing Remarks and Listener Engagement
01:16:08
Speaker
many viewers if you are streaming two games at once. That's true. ah Now, now, Jess, is there any other mystery game that you would like to discuss before we close the book on this forever?
01:16:21
Speaker
Ben, i think we can say. Case closed. Great. All right, folks. You've done again. We've done it again. We made it all the way through a quest quest that was two thirds adventure content.
01:16:36
Speaker
If you found that that less interesting, blame that on Jess. ah Now, I told Ben no more grab ass. and you know, I'm serious when I lay down the law like that.
01:16:47
Speaker
o now ah Now, you can shoot us an email at questquestpodcast at gmail.com. Are there any non-United States adventure games ah that you enjoy?
01:17:01
Speaker
and any that that that feel like they're ah you know not working within kind of an American ah like idea? Shoot us us an email questquestpodcast at gmail.com. Do you have any questions or episode ideas? Shoot us an email there.
01:17:19
Speaker
uh you can please rate and review this podcast you've heard her from everyone you know everybody hates that part when they love but you know time to pay the piper it's time to to pip pop pip as they say yep all this free entertainment and we ask so little in return yeah we listen that yeah come on Ben's been wanting to start charging for these episodes and I've told him, no, Ben, we can't. we Well, we can't because that would require us to do extra content. It's already hard enough for us to record one a week.
01:17:54
Speaker
ah like And we already have a free discord. Like, you know, what sort of Patreon bonuses ah can we offer if we we don't have it enough to, you know, like we we have to. So, yeah.
01:18:09
Speaker
so We can release the recordings of the 10 minutes before we go live where we talk about Oreos just one-on-one before inviting our listeners in because that's usually what our pre ah pre-stream talk is about too. So yeah, we can just add that in.
01:18:24
Speaker
Yeah, that well, and that's what the PS and PS underscore character stands for, pre-stream. ay and You don't shoot here as PostScript. And join us next week where the mystery is, what will next week's podcast be about?
01:18:40
Speaker
Join us then.