Transcript
Raffi Bilek: Okay. Good morning, Ivy, and welcome back. We are here. We're going to do another round of our podcast episodes.
Ibinye: Hi Rafi, how you doing today
Raffi Bilek: I am great. i'm a little bit cold and a little bit worried about my child sitting on the couch, miserable from some flu-like symptoms, whatever. It's not my problem. She's okay.
Ibinye: today? She will live.
Raffi Bilek: They'll be fine. OK, so today we were going to talk about timeouts as our tip of the of the week and the importance of taking a timeout.
Ibinye: yes
Raffi Bilek: So take it away. What's your take on timeout?
Ibinye: I love timeouts. I think they're great. I think it is very important to take a break, step away when you feel like you are at a six or above emotionally. Because when you get that high up there emotionally, you're going to say and do just anything. And most likely you will be disrespectful and hurt your partner. And we don't want that.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, you know, a lot of times we get people coming in with these arguments that, you know, oh, we said these things we don't mean, things that can't be unsaid. We don't mean it. We love each other. And it's like you said, you get to this place. I call it the red zone.
Raffi Bilek: Right. Once you get to the red zone, all bets are off. And we we know that we shouldn't say these things, but we do. We do because, you know, we go into fight or flight mode. ah and we turn into these very defensive animals trying to run away or fight back or whatever, even though it's your partner and you like them and you love them and you end up like tearing their face off and that's not good.
Raffi Bilek: I would actually say though, you said when you get when you get to a six or out of 10, I would say even a little earlier, I tell people it's time to back off. Six out of 10 sounds like you're already pretty worked up, not very angry, but like so a little bit worked up.
Ibinye: Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: I'll tell people when it starts to get hot, Right.
Ibinye: Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: When you start to feel that edgy feeling in your stomach, that's a good time for a break. Right.
Ibinye: Right.
Raffi Bilek: Because that's going to escalate.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: And it's OK to take a break. I think often people just need permission to take a break. Like we feel like, well, we have to talk about things. And yes, I'm a big fan of talking about things. Look, that's what we do in couples counseling. We talk about things. And yet it's not always the right time to do that.
Ibinye: Correct. Absolutely. I think it's important to know that timeouts are not a bad thing. Taking breaks is not really a bad thing. It's just a way to respect yourself and respect your spouse. Now you mentioned something that's super important, the symptoms in your body, right? Because sometimes people are like, well, I just got to a point where I started yelling and I just go from zero to a hundred.
Raffi Bilek: ah Zero to 100, right? Yep.
Ibinye: Nobody goes from zero to a hundred. The problem is we miss the physical cues in our body. So you just mentioned one, you feel something in your stomach for some people, they say they feel really hot.
Ibinye: Some people, they start getting these like intrusive thoughts. Everybody has signs in their body, like actual physical signs in their body that they'll warn them, I'm going up there. So know what your physical cues are. And when you start to feel those things, it's time to say, you know what?
Ibinye: I feel like I'm going up there. I love you and I respect you. So just give me a moment. And for some people, if you can't even find the words, because sometimes it's like, oh I feel like crying or I'm crying.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah.
Ibinye: Time out.
Raffi Bilek: Right.
Ibinye: find Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: That's probably because you're right. it's probably because you're at a six or a seven at that point. And that that makes sense, right? It's great if you can catch it when you're at a four or a four and a half and say, you know what? This is not going well. I need a break.
Raffi Bilek: If you can't, you get to six or seven or something and you're realizing, oh, it's going badly. Yes. A sign. What helps is when you when you discussed it or already in advance. You know what, honey, we are going to take a break. If it gets too hot for me, I'm going to take a break.
Raffi Bilek: And you know if I can tell you that, I will.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: um But if I can't, I'll just be i make a sign or I'll just you know call it say, hey, break time and I'll walk away.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: And it's important to know that is not a disrespect to your partner. I'm not doing this because i don't want to talk to you and i and I'm trying to offend you. I'm doing this to protect the relationship.
Ibinye: yes
Raffi Bilek: And if we all agree in a calm moment beforehand, we are protecting our relationship, the timeout is OK. It goes much easier.
Ibinye: Yes, absolutely. and you don't have to call it a timeout if you don't like the words timeout, because some people are like, timeout, does that mean I'm in trouble? Does that mean I'm the bad one here? It does not mean that you're the bad one.
Ibinye: We could call it taking a break. Call it whatever
Raffi Bilek: I just call it taking a break with my wife. By the way, I do this too, right? I'm sure you do as well, right?
Ibinye: you do.
Raffi Bilek: it's not like I'm a couples counselor and therefore I don't have these problems. Sometimes I'm talking with my wife and it gets a little bit heated and we say, okay, we'll take a break.
Ibinye: Absolutely. It's the healthy and respectful thing to do. And that's why I like the preface of Because I love you and I respect you. Because I also love and respect myself. I don't want to say or do anything to hurt you. So this feels like a good time to just take a break.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah. And those are all good things to put into the pre-discussion.
Ibinye: Mm-hmm.
Raffi Bilek: You know, um it's very hard to be articulate as things start to escalate. And so you sit down with your partner and you say, hey, here's the plan. Here's what we're going to do.
Raffi Bilek: Right. When things get hot, when I feel like I'm getting too ramped up to have a discussion, I'm going to call a break. Or I'm just going to sort of you know give you a sign and walk away. It's because I respect this relationship. I do not want to damage this relationship.
Raffi Bilek: And it'll be hard. By the way, it doesn't go smoothly ever. It's not like everyone's like, oh, yeah, you're right. Let's all this feels good. Let's take a break. Often it feels not so good, especially to the person who's being walked out on.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: But again, if you've decided in advance this is the right thing to do and this will help your relationship, do it. Do that.
Ibinye: Absolutely. Yeah. and And sometimes I'll say, if you notice that your partner is getting worked up, maybe in the moment you're not even that worked up, but you kind of notice the physical cues, it's okay to let them know, hey, it feels like things are getting a little bit heated.
Raffi Bilek: Yes.
Ibinye: you if we can just take a break. Don't make it about you're Exactly. Exactly.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, you know what happens? If you say, we can't talk because you're too angry, you know You get back, I'm not angry! Right.
Ibinye: exactly Exactly.
Raffi Bilek: doesn't
Ibinye: Right. So it's it's all about the way you phrase things. You can talk to your partner about anything, but it just depends on how you say it. The body language matters. The tone of voice matters.
Ibinye: The phrasing is also important because most times we mean well, we really do mean well. But then if you're if you're you, you, you, you look upset, you can't handle this discussion. That person's going to explode in the moment.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, Ibi, you just tossed ah touched on like five different episodes we're going to have to talk about there, which is like tone and phrasing and stuff. We'll get back to that. um let's Let's touch for a second on um what do you do when you're on timeout?
Raffi Bilek: Because sometimes people just sort of ramp themselves further up or they have what I call timeout anxiety and they can't manage it.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: So what are some strategies you've got that can help people to manage that when they got to walk away?
Ibinye: I tell people do anything and everything else.
Raffi Bilek: Let me say yes.
Ibinye: Laundry, the dishes, take a walk, go outside and play with your dogs, cook, clean, check your email, like do everything else but stew about the issue.
Raffi Bilek: Yoga, knitting, all these things.
Ibinye: And why? Because if you're stewing about the issue, it only makes you more upset. your body gets more tense. You get more frustrated. And now you're like, I can't stand him. He's so annoying.
Ibinye: ah And then after after the timeout is over, you're even more upset. But when you do everything else, then you're able to actually calm your body down. Your blood pressure goes down.
Ibinye: You feel so much better. You become so much more rational. You remember that you actually love your spouse, love your partner.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah.
Ibinye: I actually like this person. Oh, wow. And then you can come back with some clarity.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, I find for me what helps also is really to think my way through it and talk myself down. Right. beside i will go do something else. But before that, I might talk to myself, whether in my head or out loud and say, look, first of all, this is temporary. We're going get through this.
Raffi Bilek: um You know, this is a problem we'll solve. We'll talk about it later. I love my spouse. And I'll think about how she made me breakfast earlier that day.
Ibinye: Yes. Yes.
Raffi Bilek: It was really nice breakfast, like eggs with mushrooms or something tasty. And like, it just broadened the context, right? So thinking myself through it and not hyper-focusing on the moment and then going and do something.
Raffi Bilek: And for me, that's often just being productive, like doing some emails or something.
Ibinye: yes
Raffi Bilek: That feels great. And then, know, I'm not going to come back to it necessarily five minutes later. Maybe it's 10 or 20 minutes. Maybe it's the next day.
Ibinye: yes
Raffi Bilek: Right. That might have to happen. But I'm not sitting there making it worse. I'm old enough to remember the Seinfeld episode. I don't know if you are, but like a lot of my clients don't don't even recognize this anymore. There's a classic episode where George got insulted and he spent like the next days and weeks thinking of the best comeback.
Raffi Bilek: Don't do that. Please don't do that.
Ibinye: No, no, no.
Raffi Bilek: Right. Thinking about what you're going is going to escalate you or you'll come back just as hard as before. It will not work.
Ibinye: Right. Yes, I definitely agree. This is not the time to put bullets in the gun and say, I'm going to win this argument. These are all the reasons why I'm so upset with you.
Ibinye: A timeout is really just a time to calm yourself down, to remember that you love your spouse so that whenever you go back to have a discussion, which you should always go back and complete the discussion if possible, again, not in five minutes, give your body some time.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah.
Ibinye: um And really it's about just loving your spouse well. That is the goal. We're just trying to love each other other well. That's just really what it is. And if you can remember that your partner is not your enemy. Like sometimes I will say to myself in my head,
Ibinye: He is not my enemy.
Raffi Bilek: Right.
Ibinye: He is not my enemy.
Raffi Bilek: You're working towards the same goal.
Ibinye: I actually love this man. You and what i mean? It really does help me.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, 100%. You said something that I think people have come back to me with sometimes, which is, but if we don't talk about it now, we end up never talking about it. Right? So again, this is something we'll put off to another episode. But I think the answer is, when you know how to talk about it well, you can come back and do that. The reason people don't come back and talk about it is because who wants to open up a difficult subject and have the whole fight over again?
Raffi Bilek: One of the things that allows me to take an effective timeout is I have a lot of confidence that my wife and I can talk about any subject. So we'll definitely be talking about a lot of communication tips throughout these episodes. But realize that once you get that confidence that you can have such conversations, the timeouts will go a lot easier.
Ibinye: Absolutely. And there is almost an art to effective communication, right? And once you've mastered effective communication, I'm telling you what Rafi is saying is true.
Ibinye: You will get to a point where you can talk to your spouse about anything and everything, but it's a two-way street, right? Both of you need to be committed to actually learning the process because it is a process.
Ibinye: You know, the more we practice, the more effective we are at communicating in a kind and gentle way.
Raffi Bilek: No, no.
Ibinye: Always kind because some people will say, well, I was just being truthful, but we're just kind.
Raffi Bilek: no Right. Truthful is not always the best thing in a relationship. Yes, honesty is the best policy.
Ibinye: Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: But, you know, when your partner walks out and they get out of the room and you realize they've gained 20 pounds, that's not the first thing you say, hey, you've gotten fat. Like, oh I'm going to tell you the truth.
Ibinye: say that
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, you know, that that may not be the way the best way to handle this.
Ibinye: Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, this is a YouTube video, which everyone should look up and maybe I'll post it somewhere if I remember, where where Abraham Lincoln is being asked by his wife, honey, do I look fat in this? And the struggle on his face, because, you know, he's Honest Abe.
Raffi Bilek: And the struggle on his face is like, you know, well, I got to tell the truth. On the other hand, and by the way, the actress that plays this is this very large woman. So it's this very awkward position, people put and that's...
Raffi Bilek: Right again, telling the truth is not always the right thing to do. Right. I'm very yeah I'm very mad at you. That's a fine truth. But then you start launching things at them that yeah not the way to go.
Ibinye: Will not work. Absolutely will not work. um I think it's important to know that we should, and and I think we'll probably talk about this in later episodes as well. When you're in a deep argument, disagreement, whatever, focus on one thing at a time.
Ibinye: I think sometimes couples are trying to address 57 things in an hour.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah.
Ibinye: It is incredibly overwhelming. Things get defensive.
Raffi Bilek: Right. And a timeout will help us avoid that for sure. We'll talk about the the multiple issue thing afterwards. Yeah. But when it gets to that point, again, that's a great time to say, you know what, we're overloading ourselves. Let's take a break and come back.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: And I wanted to circle back to to timeout anxiety where somebody is feeling like, oh, but I really have to deal with this. I can't handle, you know, that there's a problem between us and we're not talking about it.
Raffi Bilek: So how would you handle that? Right. Somebody just feeling anxious, like I got to deal with it right now.
Ibinye: So first of all, disagreements are part of any relationship, whether it's your spouse, your brother, your mom, coworker, disagreements are going to happen because these are two very different individuals coming together. Very rarely are people married to people who are exactly like, look just like them, talk like them, have the same temperament. So you will have disagreements.
Ibinye: Remember that if you do have a solid foundation to your relationship, or is the desire to solidify the situation, the foundation of your marriage or your relationship, then these little disagreements are not going to be the thing that's going to completely destroy your relationship. You know what's going to completely destroy your relationship?
Ibinye: Sitting down for two hours and screaming at each other, slamming the cabinets.
Raffi Bilek: Fights. Yep.
Ibinye: That's what's going to destroy your relationship. But having healthy, respectful conversation, that is not going to destroy your relationship.
Raffi Bilek: Right. It's the nasty comments. It's the the passive aggressiveness, the sarcasm. Those things tear away at people. But even big issues are not really a problem, right?
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: The research shows that most couples have disagreements that never really go away.
Ibinye: Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: And how you handle that. um So when you're in when you're taking a break, when you're in a timeout, and you feel really anxious and and compelled to go deal with it, again, you can talk yourself down. you know There's lots of physical things you can do, meditation, yoga, calm yourself, your body.
Raffi Bilek: But you can also talk yourself down, which is, again, what I do, which is we'll deal with this. This does not have to be solved right now. Very rarely is there a problem in your relationship that needs to be solved right now.
Raffi Bilek: Right. Usually, if that's the the problem, call 911. There's something very wrong. But, you know, whose house we're going to for Thanksgiving or whether we should get a dog or how do we handle, you know, Timmy, who's having tantrums like those all feel important. And sometimes they feel real urgent, but they are not urgent.
Ibinye: Yeah.
Raffi Bilek: They might be important to talk about, but realizing we don't need to solve this right now. You know sometimes people feel like, well, I'm the kind of person who solves things right away. That's great. How's that working for you? Yeah, in in some context, it might go well.
Raffi Bilek: you know in in ah In a business thing, if you would do crisis management, like great, those are those might work for you. In a relationship, you can't always solve it right now. Maybe you're in a place to do that, but we said your partner might not be in a place to do that.
Raffi Bilek: So the reality is, it may not work for you to run right in and do it right now. And if one or both of you is compromised because you can't handle that conversation, okay, take a break. It's gonna be okay.
Raffi Bilek: We'll come back to it, we'll fix it. calm yourself. Do not make your partner or your relationship bear the stress of your difficulty holding on. That won't work for you.
Ibinye: Yeah. and think about it. If your partner is shutting down, if your partner is, say, crying, your partner is, you know, out of four, out of six, right? And you're making them sit there and talk and trying to force words out of their mouth. It feels incredibly cruel. And I don't see how that could strengthen any relationship. So when you, if you are the partner who's like, no, I need to address this in this moment or else the world is going to end.
Ibinye: Ask yourself, but ah but is that kind to my partner who's clearly shutting down or who's in tears or who really is not, I can tell like they are not able to handle this right now, right?
Raffi Bilek: yeah
Ibinye: is Is that really going to help your relationship in any way? Forcing them to have a conversation, trying to fight through it. It's not.
Raffi Bilek: So the counter argument that people will have was, but it'll help the relationship if we talk about it. And that's true, except they can't.
Ibinye: They can't.
Raffi Bilek: and what Right. You've been in places when you can't. They've been in places when they can't. We cannot force people to be emotionally ready to do that. Emotions do not respond to commands. You can manage them. You can affect them. But it takes some time, some practice. It's not a a switch you can flick.
Raffi Bilek: And so being in that moment and being OK, taking a break is a really, really critical point.
Ibinye: Yes.
Ibinye: yes
Raffi Bilek: So let's review again the basic idea that we want people to leave with. Basically, when things get a little bit heated, we take a break. And we do that ahead of time. We ahead of time, we prepare, we tell each other, okay, here's the plan. Here's our signal. Here's what's going to happen. Here's how long we'll try to spend away. You remind each other, you remind yourselves what to do when you step away, which was we said a couple things. What did we say before?
Ibinye: Do anything and everything.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah, right. Anything besides thinking about the situation, think through the the broader context. you know, my wife is great.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: My husband is great.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: Overall, this is fine. And we will be able to solve this eventually. We'll learn the skills. We're going to get there.
Ibinye: Yes.
Raffi Bilek: So timeout is our tip for the day.
Ibinye: I
Raffi Bilek: i think a lot of relationships would save a lot of wear and tear if they just implemented this one thing.
Ibinye: i agree. Absolutely. every Every battle does not have to be fought in the moment.
Raffi Bilek: Yeah. Okay, great. I hope this is helpful for people and we'll pick it up next week with another episode. Please feel free to reach out to us at all the ways that we've mentioned and we'd love to hear from you.
Ibinye: Have a great one.
Raffi Bilek: Take care.
