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Episode 409: Well, it's a point
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The Sounders’ scoring woes extended into another game, as they settled for yet another scoreless draw, this time at home to Orlando City. The Sounders have now gone scoreless in three straight home game and have been shut out in 4 of 5 overall.
The Sounders are still somehow in third place and only three points out of first, but this is becoming increasingly brutal to watch.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey,
Seattle Sounders' Recent Performance
00:00:22
Speaker
this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Here we go. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS co-pointers! Here comes Ray D'Ace from the middle to crowd it! The vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations.
00:01:04
Speaker
Seattle Sounders, the greatest MLS team in history. This is a tiny f***ing doll.
00:01:34
Speaker
Is that why you young people call twerking?
00:01:37
Speaker
Welcome to another edition of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Fullpool Wines, Watson's Counter, and our sub-stack subscribers. This is episode 409, and we're recording on Tuesday, June 27th, 2023. I'm your host, Jeremiah O'Shan.
Challenges in Sounders' Offense
00:01:50
Speaker
Joining me today in place of Aaron Campo is our old friend Mark Kastner, and of course, our producer, Lickit. How's it going, Mark? Pretty good. I wish the sounders would score some more goals, but other than that, I can't complain about a whole lot.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, so we come to you after the Sounders played to yet another 0-0 scoreless tie. I think that's their fourth scoreless tie of the season. It is their third straight home game without a goal and they have now gone scoreless in four of their last five overall and they are on pace to have their lowest scoring season in a any 34 game season
00:02:30
Speaker
yet. The positive is that they are also on pace to have their fewest goals allowed. They've already registered 10 shutouts this season, and that's allowed them to stay pretty competitive in the west. They are still somehow third and only, I think, three points out of first place. But this is becoming increasingly brutal to watch, Mark. What do you make of all this?
00:02:54
Speaker
Yeah, I was kind of going back and forth in my head about like whether or not this was like actually brutal. Are we kind of being spoiled or whatever? Cause you know, I obviously now live in Minnesota and I'm surrounded by a bunch of the loons fans and you know, they're not a particularly good soccer team at this point, or at least in this iteration. Um,
00:03:20
Speaker
And I just was talking to a friend who is a Loon's fan and I was just explaining it. And he's like, oh, I thought you guys were a lot better. Yeah, it's funny because it feels like whenever we talk to... We do the opposition research episode every week. And every week they come in like, oh, we're going to be happy to get a point out of this.
00:03:46
Speaker
And it's like, no, actually, we're not that good at all right now. Or coming on three months, almost four months at this point. And it's just sort of like, what is this team? What are they actually good at, other than not allowing the other team to score a whole bunch?
00:04:11
Speaker
But yeah, it is like pretty grim. It's also pretty grim because like the games are happening later for me. Yeah, right. So you're like fighting off. Yeah, it's like it's like the like the most boring second half I've ever seen is happening almost at 11 30 p.m. And I'm just like, what what choices have I made with my life that led me to this point?
00:04:34
Speaker
Well, and what's an interesting thing is that the last few games seem to have fallen into a very similar pattern where they start reasonably brightly. They create a few chances. They, you know, they're connecting, connecting, they're moving, they're doing all this stuff and you're like, OK, well, this is definitely the game where they.
00:04:54
Speaker
you know, they bust out of their scoring streak, and then they get to halftime, and then maybe they start the second half well, but then as the game moves on, they just sort of like lose whatever it was. I don't know exactly the, I don't have in front of me the shot stats, but it felt like right around the 60th minute, both this game and LAFC, which we didn't talk about, we didn't record an episode talking about LAFC, so if we want to talk about that too, we can, but
00:05:22
Speaker
They just seem to lose steam and they don't, all of a sudden the attack sort of dries up. You know, Nico Ledero started both games on the right. And I thought there were parts of both games where he looked like, okay, this works. This kind of works. Like it's maybe not ideal, but we can, you can see the pieces, but then it just sort of falls apart. And I don't know why that is. I don't think it's as simple as, Oh, well they're getting tired. But I don't know, maybe it is.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah, there's this like really interesting situation that's happened in like the last two games. And, you know, I'm not necessarily one to be like, oh, two games is a trend, especially when one of them is against an objectively really, really good team in LAFC, even though, you know, they had their absences.
00:06:12
Speaker
And right now, but it's like almost down to the like like the 64th minute of each match. It's like the sounders have just been like, OK, we're all done and we've done what we can. That's it. And so it's not only has the attack dried up, but then the the opposition gains some sort of like
00:06:35
Speaker
like power up or something and they get to take all their shots and stuff. Right. And like you kind of end up looking at like game flow charts or whatever and you go, oh, the sounders are actually lucky to get out of that game. Yeah. And this was in the Orlando game was a great example of that where
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, right around the 64th minute, all of a sudden, Orlando started putting together chances and they had two just absolutely massive chances. I think the Sounders were probably quite lucky not to give up a goal. There was the one where Fagundo Torres hit a
00:07:09
Speaker
Across maybe maybe you could call it a shot that that fry did it actually a pretty good job of parrying away? but then he hits it right into the the feet of a Pereira who has an wide open shot from like I don't know eight yards out and and somehow goes wide with it and then there was another one that was like that there was another they had another chance that
00:07:31
Speaker
was just barely missed but it was I I think weirdly the Sounders had to feel pretty good about getting out of that game only you know with a shutout and with a point even though you know the first 30 minutes especially I thought they looked spectacular yeah I mean I wouldn't
00:07:52
Speaker
say, I wouldn't be as positive about that first 30 minutes against Orlando as you are, but I don't necessarily hold that against you or anything. They looked functional. They looked okay. You know, they looked like they had the right ideas. But they have one idea right now. They don't have
00:08:15
Speaker
sort of like a nuanced option when things don't end up working out, like against LAFC in Orlando, where you can have your kind of go-to plan where, you know, the sounders at this point with kind of the personnel that they have, you know, they want to transition the ball up the field on the left side with Leo Chu. They have
00:08:39
Speaker
They have Ledero kind of playing this free roll. They want to kind of overload the left side either to kind of have this cutback cross come into the box and that ends up in a shot or to kind of switch it around really quickly to the right side and then, you know, try to create something that way. But it's just this like really sort of like, like,
00:09:04
Speaker
not clunky, but like a gear turning really slowly. And that's just like, that can work, you know, at this level, but it obviously hasn't. I mean, it looked okay. You know, I think between the two games, you think like, how did they not
Impact of Key Player Absences
00:09:21
Speaker
score a goal? Yeah, I agree. But at the same time, I'm not like,
00:09:27
Speaker
super encouraged by the lack of like another thing that they do. Yeah, I mean, I can understand. I guess what I'm thinking of is there was three plays in particular that really stood out to me as sort of showing that this team has
00:09:43
Speaker
something, uh, that's just, you know, there's a little bit of luck going on here or bad luck going on here. Uh, one of them was like right in the first minute where they had a seven pass sequence where they moved the ball from their penalty area into the opposition penalty area with a bunch of quick passes, a bunch of nice interchanges. Uh, and the final ball was Albert Rusnak putting a bear just perfectly in stride into the box. Uh, and it, and just this well-weighted ball.
00:10:09
Speaker
And I don't blame a, I mean, a bear took a good, like ran onto it. He hit a good shot and Pedro guys. He makes it a quality save. It happens, right? You do like no frustration there. And, but you could just see like, okay, this is flowing. And then almost immediately they created another chance on the other side of the field where, uh,
00:10:27
Speaker
Nuhu plays in Chu with this really slick line breaking pass that puts Chu into the box. He hits across that Abare back heels across the box. Yemar absolutely concretes his first touch, but it goes right to Nico Ledero who hits this right footed shot that looks like it's bending in only it hits the crossfire and
00:10:53
Speaker
You know, and it doesn't obviously, and then there was this other really nice little interchange between a bear and, and Rusnak, uh, at the top of the box that, you know, wasn't as close to being a goal, but just was this really clever little interchange. And I'm seeing all this stuff thinking like, okay, this, these are clearly.
00:11:10
Speaker
players who, who understand different attacking styles, they understand where they want to be. And yet it's just, it doesn't come off. And then I, like I said, it just every week, it seems to fall apart around the 60th, 65th minute, something like that. Even you go back to the Charlotte game where they, they scored three goals, three well-taken goals. And I want to say that.
00:11:35
Speaker
Rui Diaz's second goal, the third goal of the game, came in like the 70th minute, somewhere around there. And that was like the Sounders second shot of the second half. And they did not take another one after that.
00:11:49
Speaker
And it's just this pattern of, of, uh, I don't know, capitulation. Is that the, I don't know if that's necessarily the right word, but it feels that way. Uh, and, and I guess to some degree you could, you can chalk it up to, they just don't have their depth is just at its.
00:12:06
Speaker
at its breaking point like they just don't have you know and you in it in fairness you look at the bench and it's like who are they going to bring off the bench to really change this game and okay freddie montaro maybe a bear has come off the bench a few times but neither one of those guys strike me as sort of like instant offense type of players and more than that they don't have anyone that can set these guys up that is coming off the bench and i and so
00:12:34
Speaker
I suppose on some level that's a roster building flaw, but you can only build a team. Like we've talked about so many times, you can only build a team that's so deep in MLS. Once you get beyond your first, you know, 15, 16 players, you are sort of having to rely on young guys doing a bit, you know, doing a little extra. And I think they've done a really good job of developing, you know, central players and defensive players. They have not really done a great job of developing players with offensive ideas.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that that's like a broader conversation to have. Yeah. But at the same time when
00:13:15
Speaker
I don't know if this would be like considered like a controversial take or, or anything like that. But when you have players of the quality of like Joss Atencio, just being a complete, like pretty much basically a castaway for the last month, you know, he's, he's, he maybe gets 20 minutes in the second half or something like that. It just communicates to me that there's just not.
00:13:44
Speaker
there wasn't enough thought kind of put into maybe predicting or kind of forecasting the situations that they found themselves in this season. And that might, that is maybe a little bit harsh on my part, but I think as a coaching staff or as sort of like an entire sort of like roster build group,
00:14:09
Speaker
you could see Nations League and the Gold Cup and that stuff on the horizon and just to like kind of like
00:14:22
Speaker
Like the entire off it, like the entire kind of creative fulcrum of this team isn't actually Nicholas Odero or, uh, Albert Rusnak. It's Christian rolled on like the numbers bear repeating, like they, they have scored 17 goals in the 700 minutes he plays. And then almost the 1200 minutes they played at this point, they've only scored seven. Yeah, that's a, that's a hard one to ignore.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, and it's like, OK, he yeah, you can't you can't see that a concussion is going to get him out for two months, but you can ask the question like what happens if Christian Robon doesn't play. Who's our backup right mid, which was in fairness, a question that I think they knew needed answering all along and they've never really done anything to answer it. Yeah, but then there's just like no
00:15:12
Speaker
There's been no structural change to get their 11 or, let's say, 10 of their best 15 players on the field at any given point. I just don't understand how, OK, you look at the situation. Maybe you try a formation change, which they've kind of done a little bit. They're playing.
00:15:39
Speaker
They're effectively playing a different formation now than they do when Jordan Morris plays and stuff like that. But you can't just look at the quality of play. There are good players on the bench that they just can't use right now. And it's like, OK, how come we can't get those guys to do
00:15:57
Speaker
Like, why can't Obed Vargas play as like a Christian roll-down in light? And so Joss and Tensio can play, and then maybe you get some more sustained possession in attacking areas. Because that's, I think, the biggest problem right now is they do get these like really good looks, but they're 15 minutes apart from each other.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that would be an interesting look that they haven't tried is trying OBED as a right mid with Alver in the middle and Potencio at defensive midfield. And I suppose that's maybe a good place to jump into this part of the conversation. I think there has to be a big question about what do the Sounders do about Nico Ledero? And the thing that makes it frustrating is that you see the effort.
00:16:44
Speaker
Uh, I think in some ways you even see the semblance of, you see the qualities that make him attractive.
Nico Ledero's Role and Future
00:16:51
Speaker
Like he's still a reasonably he's reasonably good on the ball. He covers a lot of ground. Uh, he sees passes. I think it's just that he's not, you know, he, I think it's now 10 games since his last primary assist. Uh, that's a, that's a big, that's a glaring
00:17:08
Speaker
especially when that's supposed to be your central playmaker, they moved him out to the right. And I think, and like he was golden, I think against, to his credit, against Orlando, he looked dangerous. He had, you know, two really good looks at goal. I think he generally was a, was a positive influence on the game.
00:17:27
Speaker
But he's just not doing enough, especially if he's going to be your primary playmaker. And more than that, there's not a lot of reason to keep playing him when it doesn't feel like there's a future. At this point, it's hard to imagine bringing him back.
00:17:51
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, he creates this problem where, sorry, if I clear my throat a couple of times, it's really smoky here. Uh, uh, so he creates this problem where, you know, he's the highest paid player on the team or the second highest played period. I know that it's like a few hundred thousand dollars. It's one of the two highest played players and, you know, the best player in club history, the captain of the team, you know, there's all this stuff, but.
00:18:19
Speaker
If we're to believe what he said where the sounders just haven't approached him for any contract talks and his contract expires in less than six months at this point, it's like, what's the deal here? On top of that, the team is playing very bad or by their own standards, bad. It's like, okay,
00:18:46
Speaker
isn't forcing the contract on the table with the play. He is taking up a position on the field that he's not doing enough at the number 10 offensively to be playing there. They're just trying all this different stuff just to keep them on the field, and it's like, why? Why? At this point.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah. And do you, just to close the loop a little bit on the, on your attention point, which I do think informs this discussion is, you know, he hasn't started an MLS game since May 31st. Uh, he started twice for Tacoma in that time. Uh, he's only made two appearances for the first team. Uh, both of them were pretty short.
00:19:28
Speaker
Sub appearances late in game that there were they were sort of like either Trying to close out a win in the case of Charlotte or they were they were just trying to get some fresh legs on the field against LA FC and and it's not like he's been amazing in any of these games, but I do think that he clearly provides something and I would like I mean I I'm at this point where I just want to see some different
00:19:52
Speaker
Looks and if it me and it's and it's not about punishing Nico Ledero. It's not about, you know, sending him a message. It's just like trying something different and acknowledging that, you know, if this guy is not part of the future plans and maybe we need to like alter his role where he's
00:20:10
Speaker
more coming off the bench more often i mean like this week he started twice on short rest and you know he missed the charlotte game i don't and i i know there's been some folks that have pointed out that oh isn't it interesting that the one game he sat out the center scored three goals and i don't want to
00:20:28
Speaker
Christian Roldan played in that game. Right, exactly. There was a lot of Christian Roldan, Jordan Morris, or Morris came off the bench. But Louis Diaz and Roldan also both started that game. That was the last game they both played. No, I guess that's not true.
00:20:44
Speaker
he whatever like they last time they played together uh point being like there there is other variables going on there other than other than nico lidero but it just i don't i'm at the point now where i i i don't think he's going to give the sounders what they need at right mid uh you can see the heat maps especially
00:21:04
Speaker
He just is going to float into the middle. I don't think that's entirely against the The coaches directions, but you will see him absolutely float all the way out to the left wing I mean just using the example I just talked about the second-minute Chance that he had well, he was coming in from the left side. Like what's he doing over there? Yeah, and if I am remembering
00:21:30
Speaker
the same chance correctly, like Orlando basically had like 50 yards of the field on their left side to just kind of like, take the ball up. And I think they may have won a corner or something. Yeah, I think. And my like largest frustration with just this sort of idea of playing them as kind of like Rusnak and him as like these sort of dual tens is the press has been the worst it's been in almost
00:21:56
Speaker
three or four years since I've been paying attention to this stuff. Their press started out so well this year and it has not been nearly, it has just not, it has been a non-factor. Yeah. And I will say like, he is the press. I know. Him playing in that central area worked so well when everything's working super well, but since they've had to be chasing these things,
00:22:21
Speaker
he is often being aggressive in situations that he doesn't need to be aggressive in. Like I thought he was just really bad against LAFC. And I just don't get, if you can't play Rusnik and him together,
00:22:42
Speaker
Don't. Like, tell one of them, like, look, we're in a situation where, you know, we have to have somebody on the right wing and, you know, to hold- That's gonna stretch the field. That's gonna do things that you are just not doing. Not to your, like, and I know it's really easy oftentimes to focus on the team's best player when things aren't going well.
00:23:11
Speaker
Uh, because it's just like they, but I do think that they're like, it's not Nico's fault, but I just think that it's not lack of talent that's holding the sounders back right now. It's that there's not a cohesive sum of parts. Yeah. And it, it just like, it doesn't seem.
00:23:31
Speaker
It just kind of seems like everybody feels sorry for themselves that they got into this position when there were things to build upon when the Sounders weren't playing really well and they had everybody to choose from. I think the best that the Sounders have played all season was the second half against St. Louis.
00:23:48
Speaker
and their best player in that second half is Joseph Tensio. And he basically, I just went through and looked at his minutes. He started against San Jose and he was like, fine. I mean, he got hurt after that too. Yeah. And maybe it just is that simple.
00:24:09
Speaker
these players have just gotten hurt at bad times, but that's also just not really that acceptable of an answer. Like I also understand. It's an unsatisfying answer at the very least. Yeah. Yeah. Especially because like they haven't completely tanked. Right. And that's, I mean, that is, you know, I know at one point you and I were talking about how, uh, you know, they need to, like they are doing the bare minimum, which is grinding out results and they are sort of like keeping their head above water and there they put themselves in a position.
00:24:38
Speaker
I suppose to their credit where if they can get hot they can totally win the Western Conference still and it's not even like they don't even have to get that hot like they just yeah if they if they were to play at a two points per game pace over the last
00:24:54
Speaker
13, 14, how many games are they at 21 or 20 games? 13 games left. Right. Okay. So if they were to get 26 points over the last, uh, 13 games, uh, they're going to end up on 55 points, which is. Probably enough to win the West. Probably finished second. Right. I mean, for sure. It would be in the, in the top three, I would, at the very least it'll be in the top three, uh, which is where they are now. Uh, and I don't,
00:25:22
Speaker
And the West is just, it would be such a, I don't know, this would be so frustrating for them to not finish well. I definitely think this team is gonna make the playoffs, famous last words. I would be really surprised if they didn't. Right, I mean, they would have to really, really tank to not make the playoffs.
00:25:42
Speaker
That's not what any of us are looking for we're not looking to just get into the playoffs like the Sounders should This is a team that's talented enough to make noise in the playoffs.
Tactical Adjustments and Player Evaluations
00:25:52
Speaker
They should absolutely feel like advancing out of the first round of the playoffs is like the bare minimum expectation and And there's nothing about this team that like I still
00:26:07
Speaker
I still think that they have talent here. Uh, like I'm, I am also frustrated that a bear is not finishing chances, but this idea that he's like a bad player, like defies what I've been seeing. Uh, and you can just sort of go down the line. It just kind of like.
00:26:26
Speaker
It, it, it is moving the goalposts to have this conversation about a bear like this, this entire sort of like, Oh, he's not finishing his chances. He's the worst striker in the league, you know, type of things that pop up in the comments on Saturday or on Twitter that like, that's just not that, that is like.
00:26:46
Speaker
So ridiculous to me because of the role he's supposed to have in this team. He's effectively supposed to be a like for like replacement for Raul Ruiz, who has had questionable availability over the last year.
00:27:01
Speaker
And when he plays, when all the other best players play, he's really, really good. We saw that earlier this season. He's a fine, complimentary player. Uh, you know, we can, we can get into the debate of is he worth what the Sounders are paying him? I, you know, I don't know. Maybe not. But like, that's, that's what you pay backup strikers in this league.
00:27:23
Speaker
we're having a conversation about like MLS salaries, which is just like, like really murky at best. Yeah. So it's like, well, to say it's like entirely his fault or like to place, I would even say like a sizable amount of blame on his shoulders. It's just completely ridiculous because when you look around, like pretty much like we just, we just talked for a long time about how Nico Lodero
00:27:53
Speaker
isn't at a standard that's even worse starting in this team. And then you just kind of start going down, going down the chain. And it's like, it like, that has meant like gel polish dropped off a little bit.
00:28:09
Speaker
I would say Albert Rusnak's playing really well, but I'm sure. He's doing things really well. Yeah. I don't know that he's doing everything you need from a 10 really well, but he's doing a lot of things well. Yeah. Enough that I'm willing to keep playing him as a 10 just to see what's there. What's my biggest question or just sort of where my head's at is,
00:28:39
Speaker
The sounders have played this kind of bog standard 4-2-3-1 for a long time. In 2021, we saw a back three with wing backs and stuff. And that worked out really well. And now we're seeing this sort of hybrid built three box whatever build out. And it's like, OK, what's the plan beyond
00:29:06
Speaker
there's a media group of players to get the best out of. Because like, are we just going to say at the end of this season or at the end of his contract next season that like Albert Rusnak's not going to be on the Sounders? Because like, you have the pieces to play like a really aggressive 4-3-3 that can still kind of build out or build, you know,
00:29:28
Speaker
build out a possession with this like new who tucking in thing. And we just don't see it at all. Like at all. We just, we're just like, okay, we have this number 10 position that we have to play. And it's like, if Albert Rusnak could be in this position, but like 15 yards further back.
00:29:49
Speaker
and then actually have like a right midfielder or right winger that does those types of things, whether it's Dylan Tevez or whoever. It's like that actually ends up looking really good. Cause then you have, like you have this midfield overload and you have this control of the match. Either you play Obed Vargas to the right of JP or you play Joss a tensio or something there.
00:30:13
Speaker
And it's like, that actually sounds like it would work to me, but does the team think that that is an option? I don't know what's the next thing. Not even into future seasons, but if the one thing isn't working and it's not, because the Sounders can't score goals, what's the next thing?
00:30:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, those are all fair questions. I suppose the one the one thing that does give some hope is, and I guess this is sort of what the sounders are relying on, is that these are all fair questions. These are all legitimate things. But like if you bring Christian Jordan and Alex back into this team, all of a sudden you can do a lot of the things that you're talking about more effectively. And in fact, there was sort of like what they were promising to do.
00:31:04
Speaker
earlier in the season when they were absolutely flying, they were pressing, they were connecting passes, they were, you know, running these interesting attacking patterns and doing all this type of stuff. And hopefully they can get back to that. It's just, it's really, really disconcerting to see
00:31:23
Speaker
how much more boring they are right now, where they are generating some chances. But at some point, you've got to convert those. And it is way too convenient to just say, well, the sounders, according to expected points, they should be in first place. Well,
00:31:42
Speaker
They aren't, and that doesn't really get us much. And I think it suggests that they're doing something right, but they're not doing enough
Roster Changes and Injuries
00:31:50
Speaker
right. And I think that's really what it comes down to, is that they've got to start figuring out how to get results. I don't have a lot of hope for massive changes, but like I said,
00:32:02
Speaker
the way the season's structured is they're going to come out of the league's cup with potentially three national team caliber players that they didn't have heading into the league's cup. So I suppose that's something to hang your hat on in hopes. But that's probably a good place for us to call this a segment. We're going to come back. We're going to talk a little bit more about the
00:32:24
Speaker
The Sounders that are missing at Gold Cup. We're going to talk about the Club World Cup coming to the United States. A few other things. You're listening to Nos Ariatas. Watson's counter wants to thank everyone for their patience, but now the wait is over.
00:32:40
Speaker
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00:33:06
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Arietes. So there's a lot going on off the field or in other aspects of the team right now. The big piece of news that came out today was Javier Arriaga is going to be out apparently eight to 10 weeks. We had heard that he was hurt in training with Ecuador's national team. There was hope that it was maybe like a three or four week kind of thing and
00:33:32
Speaker
Uh, maybe it wouldn't even be that big of a deal, but now it looks like he's going to be out until maybe September, which if you're wondering the transfer window closes in August 5th, I think is what we figured out. Yeah.
00:33:47
Speaker
So he, either way, he's not going to be fit to, uh, before the end of the transfer window. And the reason that's relevant is I think the sounders sort of like hope of making a move this summer was mostly predicated on finding a trade partner that would, you know, at one point the sounders felt like they could get like a pretty nice haul and allocation money, uh, as well as moving him off the books, uh, potentially netting them somewhere in the $1.5 million, uh,
00:34:17
Speaker
salary cap maneuverability range. I don't know that they ever actually had an offer that was going to net them that kind of money, but they're not going to be able to trade them, I guess is my point. I don't think anyone's going to acquire a player who is in the middle of a recovery. I don't even know if you're, I assume you're allowed to do it, but
00:34:38
Speaker
I'm not holding out any hope for that. He's going to be out so long that I think the Sounders at least have to explore the possibility. By the way, he's not out of contract at the end of this year, but the Sounders do have a club option. It's very hard to imagine them picking up that club option at this point. He's on $750,000 or something like that in salary.
00:35:03
Speaker
It pains me to say this because it just feels like a waste of resources, but I almost think the sounders have to explore the possibility of buying him out and then turning around and taking that cap space and investing it in a right midfielder or something. It doesn't give him a ton of flexibility. One of the problems is that it only gives them the prorated portion of his salary.
00:35:34
Speaker
They don't get, you know, there's no allocation windfall or anything like that. But if they want to make any move, that's almost the only one that I can, unless they have like a big transfer lined up for one of their young guys, which I have not heard any rumors of.
00:35:49
Speaker
I also haven't, but I'm not as plugged in to that kind of thing as you are because you go to training and stuff and I don't. I think this just kind of sets up for a real classic sounders maneuver where
00:36:10
Speaker
Maybe the most famous example actually didn't end up working out really well and it was Adam Moffat. But, you know, they just like get somebody from within the league. Like, uh, like last year of their contract type of player. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, it was, it was, uh, Louis Silva in 2019. It was, um,
00:36:34
Speaker
you know, there was just like, like, they just went and got bodies and which was kind of funny because Ariaga was that because he was signed like directly after Chad Marshall had his surprise retirement. If I'm not mistaken, right in 2019 that window. I mean, they picked up Ariaga mid season that year in a transfer.
00:37:03
Speaker
Anyways, Garth Lagerweil always used to say, oh, we brought this money forward to fill a need now, or we did that type of thing. And it's like, did we just do that too many times and don't have that to do anymore? Or what?
00:37:23
Speaker
I would almost be kind of disappointed if they didn't at least try to do something there. But they also kind of have this MO where it's like they try to sort of be the nice guys with all this stuff. So it's like, do they really want to set the precedent where they just kind of cut ties with the guy right now? I would say it's probably,
00:37:48
Speaker
better for him from a playing perspective because of the way that the world transfer market works in the summer. Yeah. So there's like that. But all of a sudden, like you kind of came into the season with Craig Weibull not having to do a whole lot and now he really does kind of need to do something. If only to kind of set like a tone, like the sounders have always classically done in situations like this.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would agree with you that it does feel like they almost have to do something. And like I said, it's not that they don't have any reinforcements coming this summer. I do think like my sort of joking aside, it's not irrelevant that they have
00:38:36
Speaker
Alex Roldan, Christian Roldan, and Jordan Morris all potentially coming back into this team. Those are important players. Those are good players. If they went out into the open market and acquired three comparable players, we would be over the moon in terms of what that can potentially mean.
00:38:55
Speaker
But yeah, they don't have a lot of flexibility. They don't have the ability to go out and make a bunch of moves. And they are sort of at the whim of finding this. They sort of tried to do this last year, too, where they didn't have a lot of salary cap maneuverability. And they were basically trying to get, if I remember correctly, San Jose was the one that was really high on their list to basically give them like Judson or, uh, Oh, who is that?
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah, John Grey Goose. They had a few guys that they were sort of like trying to talk
00:39:31
Speaker
talk San Jose into effectively giving them and San Jose ended up not giving them and lost all three for, ended up letting all three of them walk anyway. But like, that's the sort of the kind of thing that they're looking to do. But man, I'll tell you, I'm looking through the list of potentially expiring contracts at the end of this year. And there are not a lot of, as you might expect, it's either players that are very clearly gonna have their options picked up,
00:40:01
Speaker
by their teams, or it's, you know, guys like Joe Paolo or Julian Gressel or something like that. And it's like, you got to, like, there's not a lot of talent that's just waiting to be picked up, but that's sort of what you would expect. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think the thing that would be,
00:40:27
Speaker
sort of encouraging about their willingness to buy out Ariaga is almost more that it shows a, uh, what's the right term, a ambition to be proactive, uh, about, about improving their roster. And I think that's what's maybe a little, I think that's what a lot of people are sort of frustrated about. Yeah. And it also like.
00:40:51
Speaker
It allows Craig Weibull to be like, no, this is actually my team. And I'm not just filling in some rather large shoes that just left. Like I'm not, I'm not just like an empty suit type of guy, which would, I think be a pretty harsh characterization, but if like nothing happened and they were just like, Oh yeah.
00:41:13
Speaker
his contract is actually expiring at the end of the year. That is interesting. That type of thing would really suck. I don't know the ins and outs of inner Miami's roster, but they're about to do some pretty crazy things in this transfer window. It seems that way, yeah. I don't accept that the sounders can't be sitting at that table trying to be
Player Movements and Trade Opportunities
00:41:41
Speaker
like the beneficiary of some of that, especially since Chris Henderson is their GM. Yeah, you would think that they have his phone number is what you're saying. Yeah, or just being like, hey, look.
00:41:58
Speaker
Well, here, I'll give you one name of a player who just sort of like going through this list that actually, you know, there's this guy Robert Taylor that's happens to be on Miami, who is not like nothing about him jumps off the page as being a star or anything like that. But this is the kind of guy who, you know, he has a history of scoring some goals in in Europe, albeit in
00:42:25
Speaker
I guess this is Finland. I think Norway is where he was playing. But he also has got five career MLS goals in two seasons. And he could be a useful player. And he's probably someone that I would imagine Miami is dying to get rid of and probably happy to get rid of for nothing. Yeah. And even give me something like this. Give me a guy like that. I'm not asking for much.
00:42:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm. Yeah, he's he was playing for Norway before or in Norway, I should say. I'm just trying to do a really quick Google here to make sure he's not like one of the seven players that they have that just tore their ACL. But like there's got to be like something or like.
00:43:15
Speaker
Like, so for instance, Dominic Baji plays for FC Cincinnati, who are going to be doing some musical chairs in their forward position. And it's like, if Baji doesn't have like a clear path there, he could come play here for a few months. Like just something like that I think probably needs to happen to like,
00:43:45
Speaker
Just if purely just for vibes, you know, exactly. Not to like, not to downplay that, but I do think there's something to be said about bringing in a new face and just someone that's going to, you know, create another point of competition. Uh, you know, and sure, like I do want to see the sounders give some more minutes to the guys they have, the young guys they have here. You know, Dylan Telvez, I don't think is completely useless as a prospect.
00:44:15
Speaker
But, you know, I think this is sort of, maybe we can call it the Sam and Denerin problem where, you know, here was a player who showed some promise who didn't quite fit the role the Sounders had in mind for him. And like, I don't want, he scored two goals this last week and that's the first two MLS goals he's ever scored. So I don't want to overstate how great he is, but that they were willing to sort of give him away for almost nothing.
00:44:39
Speaker
it sort of speaks to sometimes how they are a little reluctant to give new faces minutes. And I just think that maybe this is a good time for us to shake things up a little and maybe not go with the same, like thank you for all your service, Nico, and thank you for everything that you've done for this club. But like, we just need you to take a little bit of a break.
00:45:07
Speaker
You know, yeah. And I mean, in 2019, in that kind of summer window, they brought in Emmanuel Shoshini, if that's how I remember saying his name. He was a disaster, though. Yeah. And and Louis Silva from DC United. Right.
00:45:24
Speaker
So like they did something. Right. No, absolutely. And I guess that's the thing is like that. Yes. I think your point is more that under there, they have been a team that's been willing to just bring guys in to sort of maximize the, like they have this, they have these mechanisms that they want to use and they are willing to use it. And.
00:45:50
Speaker
Yes, let's see more of that. Let's see some of that ambition. The reality is that they have not made almost any moves to bring players in from outside the organization in almost two years. And they signed Albert Rusnak on a free. They brought Abraham in a trade. And that's really the extent of moves they've made the last four transfer windows, I think.
00:46:14
Speaker
So yeah, like, let's like, uh, or moves from outside the organization. Uh, let's, so yeah, let's, let's, let's see something. Um, I suppose you could throw, uh, two more names I'll throw out there. I suppose you could sign Paul Rothrock or, uh, Bradilia Rodriguez, who are, are two players that are doing quite well for, uh, Tacoma Defiance. And maybe they deserve a shout. Uh, I won't pretend as if that's not going to be, you know, a little.
00:46:44
Speaker
what's the right word it won't underwhelming underwhelming both those players i think are interesting players but i don't think anyone's gonna get excited about them even though uh
00:46:57
Speaker
You know, Rothrock has a goal in his, his one, his, or he has three goals actually in his three sounder's appearances. So I don't know, maybe that's, that's a good time to bring him in and maybe he'll be signed anyway. And who knows, maybe he's even the
Gold Cup Impact on Sounders
00:47:10
Speaker
answer. Uh, but it's, it feels a little convenient to, to, to say that, like that would be the, that would be the easy answer, I suppose.
00:47:20
Speaker
Yeah. It's like too bad that Lamar Nagel and Eric Freiberg are just too old at this point. Yeah, just bring them back. Exactly. Or Flacco. This was the time they would always just re-sign those guys. That is true. That is absolutely true.
00:47:39
Speaker
All right. Well, so moving on to other things. Right now, the Sounders have two or three players actually in the Gold Cup, as you may or may not know. Jordan started for the U.S. and my old accounts seem to be pretty bad for the U.S. in their 1-1 tie with Jamaica.
00:47:59
Speaker
Christian Roldan came off the bench in that one. I think he played about 20 minutes and he was actually pretty good. I did not watch this game. It was going on almost exactly at the same time as the Sounders game. And it's almost impossible to find these games on replay. But everything I've read about Roldan was that he was actually pretty good in the game. He was a little unlucky not to get a score or not to get a goal. And then Alex Roldan started at left back.
00:48:24
Speaker
who are, he apparently is starting all the time now for El Salvador. Uh, and they lost two to one to, uh, to Martinique, to Martinique. Like a, uh, like a wing back position. I think it's left back in a, in a back four. Uh, although maybe they're, I haven't watched them closely enough to be able to say if it's like a new who.
00:48:47
Speaker
left back or if it's a, you know, like where he's being asked to attack and do all those kinds of things. But I suppose the good news is if El Salvador goes out in the group stage, we'll get him back a little earlier than we otherwise would. Yeah, which is a kind of a catch 22 because he's the player we probably missed the least. Yeah. Well, Baker's been pretty good. Yeah.
00:49:14
Speaker
Like he, yeah, I just don't think right back as like the position that changes the world or anything. That sounders play right now. Although if the idea is to play him a little further forward, I could be into that. But yeah, I don't know. I basically just kind of think like we won't see
00:49:41
Speaker
any of these guys until week's cup. Week's cup, yeah. And that's just kind of like, it sort of does sound like that's the kind of the bet that the sounders have made with this kind of chunk of games. Yes, it does. It does. Which is, I don't know, I find that a little frustrating that they've just kind of like accepted the lots, but again, I'm just a guy and they have to do this professionally, so. Right.
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, but they, the thing is, I think what your point is that they could have seen this coming and it's not like the gold cup caught them by surprise. And I, you, we can complain all we want about, uh, whether or not the United States should have called up, uh, Christian and Jordan, but like that was always a very predictable outcome. Yeah. And it's just like.
00:50:36
Speaker
I think it puts the players in a really uncomfortable position because it's like, what, are they going to say no? No, of course they're going to. I know we got into this debate in the center of her comments where someone was suggesting that if they think they have a chance of getting into the World Cup, they're crazy.
00:50:58
Speaker
They're professional athletes, of course. And I guarantee everyone was saying the same thing a year ago. Oh, Jordan and Christian will never get into the into the World Cup. And no, they didn't play a lot. And yes, there is a more than fair debate to be had about whether or not they should have been on that team. But the reality was they were on the team. Like, that's an undeniable fact. And so, of course, they are going to continue to try to make future Gold World Cups, especially when
00:51:28
Speaker
it's gonna be in the united states in case you hadn't heard and and there's a copa america and you know there's all kinds of things that they're gonna want to play in understandably so like no they're not gonna turn down call ups that's just not how it works and there's just like there's just a complete dynamic that no fan talks about where it's like
00:51:50
Speaker
they like to represent their country. It matters a lot to them. They have friends on that team. By all reports and accounts and stuff, they're really great locker room presences. Right. Everyone likes them. Which obviously makes sense because
00:52:14
Speaker
They're outstanding individuals, Christian and Jordan. I'm sure Alex is too, but we're talking in the context of the US team. It's just like...
00:52:28
Speaker
It's such a frustrating conversation to have because it's like, why are we in 2023 with all these sort of advancements that Major League Soccer have made and a team like the Seattle Sounders who have doubled and tripled down on domestic talent with these two players, two and three times over with contract extensions, why are they getting the short end of the stick?
00:52:56
Speaker
Right. I mean, if anything, be mad at MLS for, uh, scheduling the league's cup independent, like if you had played the gold cup and the league's cup at the same time, I don't know. Like sure that would rob you of some talent, but not that much, uh, frankly. Yeah. And it's just like, it's, it's just so.
00:53:22
Speaker
It's where I sympathize with the real haters of this league, because it's just so dumb.
00:53:30
Speaker
that it's come to this. It's like why, it is better to have like the Brazilian equivalent of Jordan Morris on the Sounders from a Sounders perspective than it is to have Mercer Island Jordan Morris on the Sounders.
Club World Cup and Scheduling Conflicts
00:53:47
Speaker
Because that quality of player, he's just as good as Jordan Morris, but he's never gonna get into his national team. And it's like, why are we incentivizing that type of behavior when
00:54:00
Speaker
This like Jordan Morris should be kind of one of like the crowning achievements from a domestic talent standpoint in this league because of everything he's been through. And it's screwing over his club team. Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's there's a lot of frustration. I guess your if I your point is I think that there's a lot of frustration. None of it should be aimed at the players or especially because the crazy people that support this national team
00:54:29
Speaker
like to blame them for everything. Right, exactly. The final bit that I wanted to talk a little bit about is the Club World Cup is coming to the United States in 2025. I'm pretty excited about this, even though the Club World Cup is going to be probably just a
00:54:51
Speaker
I don't know that it's that different in practice or how seriously teams will take it than from these pre-season European fake tournaments that they bring to the United States, the Champions Cup or whatever they call these things.
00:55:09
Speaker
But I do think it's, it's going to be pretty fun. Uh, it's going to be expanded to 32 teams. They're going to play a group state, like a proper group stage. So there's going to be like 60 games, uh, being played in this, uh, club world cup, which is just wild to think about. Uh, the Sounders have already qualified for it, uh, as, as have, uh, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Liverpool, right? Have all Manchester city.
00:55:32
Speaker
Oh, Manchester City. That's right. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, there's going to be some of the world's biggest teams playing in this thing. And the thing that's really interesting is, like, I got to imagine they're going to want to host this at the same place as they're going to host the World Cup a year later. Right. I mean, that's how it kind of used to be. Like.
00:55:55
Speaker
I don't know how many iterations of the Club World Cup ago, but so for instance, like the 20, let's say 19 Club World Cup, the one that Liverpool happened to win. Oh, you're saying one was in Qatar. Yeah, they were at the Qatar facilities.
00:56:17
Speaker
a long time ago when was it Japan and South Korea hosted? Oh, maybe. Yeah. I guess I hadn't even thought about that. That's interesting. I only know this from the context of the ones that Liverpool have participated in because I also- Well, I think you're right. I think those two did sort of end up that way.
00:56:36
Speaker
Um, so it, it, it was like sort of a test run in, in addition to like, they used to do like the confederations cup or whatever. Right. The confederations cup was traditionally the summer before the, the world cup and they've gotten rid of the confederations cup. Yeah. But, um, like.
00:56:55
Speaker
For as long as I've been following European soccer, which has been a long time at this point, they've always kind of talked about this like expanded club World Cup. So yeah, at one, on one hand, I'm kind of like, yeah, it's cool that they're finally doing it. Excuse me. But at the other hand, it's like,
00:57:15
Speaker
How are these players going to live? It's like 80 or 90 games. So for instance, let's say Harry Kane is the captain of his club team, the captain of his national team. And let's say, for instance, he's playing for a team that is successful in the Champions League, which I know it currently isn't.
00:57:44
Speaker
And it's like, you're looking at like a 90 game calendar for a player like that. And it's just like, it does seem a little ridiculous. So on one hand, I think it's like really cool. I'm like excited from a sounder's perspective, but I'm just wondering overall, what's the kind of like.
00:58:04
Speaker
Because I see the other side of the conversation where fans of European clubs are just sort of like, why even bother with this? Yeah, I mean, I will say that from a Sounders perspective, my hope is that this tournament is played concurrently with
00:58:24
Speaker
the league's cup and whoever, if any MLS or league, I met whichever MLS and league at Mackie's teams are involved, just get excused from league's cup. My suspicion is that won't happen because MLS doesn't seem to think of things, uh, in a, in a way like that, like they're going to want to maximize promotion. And so they aren't going to want to go head to head with the club world cup, but that would be a really neat way of organizing this because otherwise the summer of 2025 is going to be an absolute nightmare.
00:58:53
Speaker
Maybe they'll call off the League's Cup. That would honestly be like League's Cup probably should take a break for 2025, maybe even for 2026 when they're playing the World Cup in the United States and Mexico.
00:59:09
Speaker
It that summer, it's like scary to think of like how crazy they can make that summer if the league sort of like barges forward with this thing. When, uh, when Liverpool went to the club with cut, um, just to kind of put some.
00:59:27
Speaker
But put some like worrying minds at rest that it's just not like majorly soccer that kicks themselves in the arts or whatever. Liverpool had to play Aston Villa on December 17th.
00:59:43
Speaker
in an EFL Cup game, which is kind of their second dairies domestic trophy. So it's not the FA Cup, but it's the other one. The next day they were scheduled to play in the club World Cup. So they had to play their U23s against Aston Villa and basically forfeit competition to the point where Jurgen Klopp wasn't even there because there were two games on two different continents, 18 hours apart. So.
01:00:11
Speaker
Uh, I don't think major league soccer is going to be any smarter than that. So I think we might just see situations where it's like, you got to play to defiance in the, in league's cup. And that's that, but I don't know if there's just too, I think there's too many games.
Lumen Field Preparations
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah. That is definitely, that that's absolutely one of the, the, uh, the, the downsides of this. Um,
01:00:38
Speaker
I will say the one other thing that I like about this Club World Cup is I've adopted this pet
01:00:46
Speaker
pet, uh, campaign, I guess I'll call it that it's a, it's just another reason that I think lumen field needs to put in grass, uh, sooner than later, because if they, I mean, can you imagine if they, if they have grass there, I would assume that they are almost a shoe in to be one of the host cities for the club world cup. They probably would be one of the shoe in for coast hope. Um,
01:01:11
Speaker
hosting the Copa America, which is coming in 2024. They are already having to put in the grass in 2026 for the Men's World Cup. And then the US is going to be bidding for the 27 Women's World Cup. And you would have to think Seattle would be on
01:01:28
Speaker
in the running for that as well. And so my point is that if you're already gonna have to put it in the grass in 2026, and by the way, it's gonna either force you to play some home games at a secondary facility, or you're gonna have to take an outrageously long road trip to start the season. Why not just do it now? I don't know that there is like, I'm not quite sure I have, I understand the argument for waiting at this point, other than a lack of planning.
01:01:57
Speaker
Yeah, they might not get an opportunity where Loom and Field isn't being used for anything. Right, exactly. Longer than the one that happens this offseason. Even if I don't necessarily follow Dean's announce at the Seahawks, or from what I'm gathering, they're not supposed to be that good. But even if they were to go to the Super Bowl.
01:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. So like, let's say even if they hosted the NFC championship game to the, like what we're guessing would be the start of MLS season, they have about six weeks. That's it. That's the biggest chunk of time that they, they will have in years. Right. Yeah. And, um, and, and there's no, like if, and the Sounders would obviously still have to go on a, on a road trip probably to, to make that work, but that would be probably half as long as
01:02:49
Speaker
the road trip they would have to go on if they wait until 2026 to install the grass. I actually wrote a whole column that articulated a whole series of reasons to do this. I won't get into all of them here, but I'll just say that I very much talked myself into thinking this is almost a no-brainer idea at this point. Not the least of which is that you also have a lot more time to figure out how to make the grass work.
01:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, because the grass might suck. Right, exactly. It might. I think that's a real thing that might require some adjustments, and it would be a lot easier to make those adjustments over the next two summers and winters than for the next two years than to do it all in the run-up to the World Cup and then trying to figure out how to maintain it for the rest of the year.
Conclusion and Future Plans
01:03:39
Speaker
Anyway, well, that's all we got.
01:03:42
Speaker
We are maybe going to have a mailbag show later in the week, but Mark, Mark, thank you so much for filling in for Aaron today.
01:03:50
Speaker
my pleasure. We're gonna actually our plan is to sort of change up the lineup a little bit more regularly in the coming months and I suppose beyond but yeah I know I'm gonna be taking a week off in August and Aaron will probably take weeks off periodically as well and Mark we really appreciate you filling in whenever possible you're not unmasking you to
01:04:18
Speaker
commit to anything at this point, but you were a great co-host today. So thank you. Yeah. I've just been putting my work in and training waiting for the coach to call me up.
01:04:27
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'm finally glad we did that. But thank you to our sponsors, Watson's Counter and Full Pull Wines, as well as our Substack subscribers. In case you didn't know, you can find us at nosadietes.substack.com. And plans are available for as cheap as $5 a month or $50 a year. All that said, I am Jeremiah O'Shan, and this is Nos Adietes. Remember, you will never get a loan.
01:05:29
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!