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Episode 7: Grading
194 Plays3 years ago
We talk pattern grading, what it is, how it's done, and what it takes to learn how to do it. I suggest sources for size charts and courses, as well as, discuss what to expect if you wish to hire some one to do the job.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to Knit, Design, Edit, Sleep, Repeat with Lisa Conway and Denise Finley. Let's listen in and see what's happening, who's happening and what's new in their world.
Grading and Weather Chat
00:00:37
Speaker
Today, Denise asks me questions about grading, and we discuss size inclusivity. Hey, Lisa. Hey, Denise. How are you doing today? I am great. How about yourself? Oh, I'm totally loving the sunshine. Yeah, we see it every once in a while.
00:00:56
Speaker
Not too often. It's actually beginning to feel like maybe winter will end. I know we've got at least another full month, but you know. It's been warm here. I shouldn't complain, but it's been rainy. You know, it's typical spring in Portland, so.
What is Grading?
00:01:14
Speaker
Well, what I called about Lisa is I've been doing some thinking and some reading. I don't know if this what I'm going to ask you about is new, or if the fact that they're just kind of highlighting it is new. But I've been reading a lot about grading. I'm assuming that's sizes and patterns. But can you tell me, I mean, in detail, what is grading?
History of Grading
00:01:42
Speaker
Well, grading is actually the process of taking a sample size, one given size pattern or piece of clothing, and then turning it into multiple sizes. And it's interesting you should say, is this new? It's actually a relatively new idea.
00:02:09
Speaker
it didn't even begin to be used until the early 1900s. Prior to that, people made their own clothing. So everything was size specific to the person. Even if a tailor made it, the tailor would take your measurements and create, almost create the pattern from scratch each time. Kind of like how I did the wedding dresses. Yes. Very much like you did the wedding dresses and very much like I used to do one of a kind sweaters when I was in my twenties.
00:02:39
Speaker
But in the early 1900s, people began to look more towards purchasing their clothing and that led to manufacturing of clothing and they needed to figure out, okay, what sizes do we create this in? What are people going to buy? So the first actual body size study was
00:03:08
Speaker
in the US. Now, it might have been done sooner over in Europe and the United Kingdom, but in the US was done by the military in the 1930s. I wonder if my husband knows about that. I'll have to ask. That was one of his master's degrees was military history. Right. That would be interesting.
00:03:33
Speaker
I think I'm right when I say 1930s, I would have to go back to my notes for my grading class to be absolutely certain, but it was right around that early 1900s, 1920s, 1930s.
Challenges with Size Consistency
00:03:46
Speaker
Sure. But sizing is very unique to each manufacturer as well. Oh, by bet, yeah. So it's tricky because the size numbers are basically all made up.
00:04:04
Speaker
And nobody matches exactly the quote unquote size charts that are available, but it's someplace to start. Yeah. I understand that. So great, baby. Great. Okay. My tongue just got totally wrapped up around my teeth. All right. I teeth and you can't see where you're talking. That's exactly right. But the,
Grading Process Explained
00:04:31
Speaker
Grading is actually the process of taking whatever base size or sample size and expanding it out in either direction to make it bigger or smaller. Interesting. So when you do something like this in your line of business as a tech editor, how long does it take to grade a garment? It depends a lot on the sweater that I'm grading. If it's a very simple design,
00:05:00
Speaker
a couple of weeks. Weeks? Wow. Yes. Because you can only work on it for so long each day before your brain says, I'm done. Because you're staring at spreadsheets and you're dealing with large quantities of numbers and there's a definite brain overload point and that's when you start making mistakes. Exactly. So usually I'll work on it for
00:05:30
Speaker
three maybe four days for about two to four hours max the first week and then the second week I go back and I try to recheck every single number. Wow. So that's why I say at least two weeks. For a complicated design it could take as long as three because it may take longer than that first three or four days to
00:05:58
Speaker
get the base numbers and then you've still got to double check it. Wow. So, so this is like a math thing. Yeah. So if I look at it in hours, it's eight to 10 hours generally. And for a complicated design, it could be 12 to 15. Okay. Okay. Well, like I said, I, you have to spread it over time. Well, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. The numbers would just kind of all run together, I guess. They really do.
00:06:28
Speaker
And you really want to take the time. Now, the other thing that I add in there, excuse me, a little bit of a burp there, apologize. The thing I add in a little extra time for is once I have those numbers done and into the pattern, because usually this is a situation where you don't work by just sending them the numbers and they put them in, you get a
00:06:57
Speaker
an editable copy of the pattern and you add those numbers in. I have a tech editor I work with that I will send the pattern to. She will check just the numbers and send it back to me. She runs the numbers, huh? Yep. I didn't do that on the first grading job I did and I was really sorry because there were some silly mistakes made where
00:07:25
Speaker
numbers got reversed, the Imperial got put in place of the metric and the metric got to put in place of the Imperial and things like that, that she would have caught for me right off the bat.
Proportional Ease Limitations
00:07:39
Speaker
Well, live and learn, right? Well, so here's another crazy question in some of my reading, you know, before I wanted to chat with you about this, I saw the phrase proportional ease. Now I know what ease is because negative and positive ease, because we use that knitting all the time. But what is proportional ease and do you recommend using it?
00:08:06
Speaker
Proportional ease is adjusting your size by a percentage system. So if you look at Elizabeth Zimmerman's EPS, you know, where you use a percentage to create your sweater, that's using proportions. And it may work on a single body.
00:08:31
Speaker
but it doesn't work well when you're going from one size to the next. So if you say my ease is 5% on my sample, if you're going smaller, you're using less ease, and when you're going larger, you do more ease, that's proportional ease. The problem with proportional ease is
00:08:57
Speaker
it only works for a very limited range of sizes, the very middle. The minute you get too small or too large, your proportional ease blows out. So for example, if you're talking about armhole depth, the arm side, and you're using a proportional ease, well, if it's
00:09:22
Speaker
5% on your middle size. It's now 10% on your largest size, but their arm hole depth isn't that much longer than the middle size. So you end up with garments on either end that really don't fit the body well. Some manufacturers still use this.
00:09:50
Speaker
And that's why you might find a manufacturer that the largest sizes, their armholes are like 15 inches deep because they've used proportional ease. So no, I don't recommend it. Would there ever be a time when you could use it? There are certain areas of the body it might work for, but I would never apply it to the entire design.
00:10:23
Speaker
Well, that's very interesting because I was, I made a dress years and years and years ago. I was pregnant for one of my kids and I would just took a regular dress pattern and I was going to make it bigger. And it was a very strange construction anyway, which should have been the clue to me. I shouldn't have done it. But the arms, I made them too big.
00:10:46
Speaker
they were just huge, you know? So that must have been what happened. I made everything the same amount of size bigger. And then when I got to the arms, I just did the same thing there. Yes, that's another place where proportional ease can be used is if you're taking a pattern and resizing it and you use the same proportion for every size change area, you're changing the size. And again, like you said,
00:11:14
Speaker
It takes some of those areas like the armhole. The armhole is one of the worst places to apply proportional ease. And it even is a bad place to apply the same amount of ease as you would in other areas. So for example, if you've got an inch positive ease around the bust, you don't necessarily want an inch positive ease at the upper arm.
00:11:44
Speaker
And I think that's what happened. I think that's why they just look like bat wings or something. It was horrible. It was different parts of the body require different amounts of ease. So, yep. My pregnancy brain was just like done with all of it. I went out and bought a dress. Well, you know, I'll be honest.
00:12:03
Speaker
That kind of mistake is easy to make, regardless of pregnancy, brain, or domain. Okay. Well, let's switch gears a little bit here because I can try to make this a little more personal.
Designer Requirements for Grading
00:12:14
Speaker
So if you wanted
00:12:18
Speaker
If I wanted you to do grading for me, like I made a sweater, a pattern, or a dress pattern, and I wanted you to do the grading, is there anything else besides the pattern? What do I need to send to you for the grade to be successful? I mean, are there other numbers or measurements or? Oh, there's a ton of information. As a matter of fact, I have a, is it three or four page document that I send
00:12:48
Speaker
It's a four page document that I send with questions to the designer. Wow. To give me enough information to be able to complete the grade. And even then there will be a moment where I'm looking at the grading job and I say, you know, how does this designer want this part to go? Right. So there's, there's got to be regular communication back and forth between myself and the designer.
00:13:18
Speaker
which is another reason why it can take up to two to three weeks because there's got to be time built in for that email delay. Well, so you don't have to tell me in detail, but are the things that you're asking or requiring in that four page document, are they measurements? In some cases, what I ask for is clear photographs with the tape measure
00:13:47
Speaker
on certain portions of the document, of the garment. So that, for example, the cross back measurement. I want, it's really helpful for me to have a photograph with the, a ruler or a tape measure or something laid flat on it so that you can see where, not only what the measurement is, but exactly where the designer is measuring.
00:14:15
Speaker
So in some cases, I'll ask for more detailed photographs. I ask for, uh, how they want their design labeled. You know, do they want small, medium, large? Do they want it listed as 30, 32, 34, 36? How, how do they want that labeled? I get very specific about yarn usage. I asked them not only.
00:14:45
Speaker
what yarn did they use and what are their estimates of the yarn used? I asked for them to actually weigh the yarn and tell me, okay, the yarn ball was X when I started, it's Y now because I calculate the yards and meters based on how much they actually used. And then of course we add percentages to that for swatching and that kind of thing. But it's helpful to know exactly how much they used to begin with. So
00:15:15
Speaker
There's, and depending on the design, there's different measurements that need to be taken that are unique based on the style of the garment. Wow. That's kind of touching the surface. Oh yeah, I can't even imagine. It kind of surprises me because when I was thinking about this, as I read about it a little bit, I just assumed it was like an algorithm. You plugged in a bunch of numbers and boom, you're done. But apparently it's a little more involved than that.
00:15:44
Speaker
It's very much more involved if you were to see the spreadsheet. It's color-coded. I was taught the very good thing about color-coding so that you can see your lines a little easier and which sizes which a little easier, that sort of thing. It's supposed to be nice and neat, but it's never nice and neat.
00:16:15
Speaker
And there's a lot of referring. Okay. So I've now calculated the lengths for all of the various sizes, but this size looks wrong. It looks like it's going to actually not fall where the designer planned on it falling. Right. So how do I need to adjust that or.
00:16:43
Speaker
contacting the designer and saying, you know, if I use body standard body numbers and I adjust based on that, I think this size is going to come out wrong. And we do this back and forth about, you know, is that going to be okay? Is it going to make the design look? Because the goal of grading is to try to make many sizes that look relatively the same as as the sample.
00:17:12
Speaker
but on the different body sizes and body types. I guess if you think about it long enough, that's daunting for me to think about that. It's daunting for many people to think about because when you actually get into the nitty gritty of it, there is so many... I'm struggling for the word for the moment.
00:17:43
Speaker
a choice. There's no hard and fast rule. Oh, very subjective. Yes, subjective is the word I was looking for. Thank you very much. Very welcome. Why my brain decided to miss that word. Usually it happens to me. So it's a very subjective process. And it's you've got to think of the designers end goal.
00:18:15
Speaker
If I'm grading for myself, it's a much faster process because I'm making the design decisions as I go. And it's in your head already. Yeah, I get that. But when you're grading for a designer, you're not in their head. And sometimes you send them numbers and they look at them and they say,
00:18:40
Speaker
I'm not sure that works. And so there's the back and forth started on their end, but usually it's, you know, I'm not sure I'm meeting your design goal and let's have a conversation on that. So it's very, very subjective because the numbers are all made up.
00:18:59
Speaker
Right. Well, you know, with, with this explanation, and you're telling me about all this back and forth, and it makes sense now that it takes as long as it takes for you to complete a grading assignment. That makes complete sense to me now. When, when you first said that, I went like, you know, like I said, I thought you just plug numbers into an algorithm or something. Boom. And that's not the case. No, it isn't. There's, there is a lot of, of decision-making that has to happen in the process. You can't,
00:19:30
Speaker
just automatically plug them in. I think it's why it's so hard to learn to grade. You watch there's a there's a class on craftsy on grading and the first time I went through that I thought okay that taught me how to do that garment but how do I do other styles right you know so then I took my second class in grading which was
00:19:59
Speaker
a much bigger class. And there still was the well, okay, that works for that style. But what about this style? So there's a lot of give and take in terms of even figuring out how to do it. I do plan on taking a third class. Well, that would be
00:20:24
Speaker
Good for you. With me, I'm just not interested in anything like that because as much as I've been a knitter my entire life since I was in fourth grade or third grade, I think, and been a seamstress and did alterations and I've created these wedding dresses and everything, I am just not a numbers person. I never have been. I mean, I can do it, but do I want to? Matt? You know, I have designers that I work with.
00:20:54
Speaker
that have taken the same classes I have that know as much and sometimes maybe even more than I have than I do, but they hate doing it so much. They would rather work with me and let me do the numbers. And then because they know what I'm doing, because they're aware of the process, it's way easier to have those conversations when the things come up of
00:21:22
Speaker
Is this really what we want to do? And that makes a lot of sense. Now quickly, before I move on to something else, this came up too, because as a knitter, I have purchased patterns and received free patterns from all over the world, basically. And some of these patterns are in metric and some of them are in the Imperial numbers or the numbers that, you know, we Americans use, right? So which do you grade in?
Metric vs. Imperial in Grading
00:21:52
Speaker
First, I asked the designer. That is one of those decisions that generally is made initially by the designer. I will add that I like to work in metric first and do conversions to Imperial. That seems odd as an American that that would be the case, but I find it easier to get
00:22:22
Speaker
closer to the size I really want and that the designer really wants by doing the metric and then converting. I prefer metric, actually. In fact, the last wedding dress I made, Danielle's in the wedding, is next weekend. Yay, then it's off your plate. Yes, exactly. But she, when she sent me, I told her all the measurements that I needed and there was like 30 of them.
00:22:51
Speaker
because that's what I require. And she sent them all in metric. I was thrilled to death because for me, metric is more precise. It's for me, it's more exact. It is because you can actually measure down to a much closer point. One and a half centimeters is easier to measure than
00:23:16
Speaker
seven-eighths of an inch. Exactly, yes. And I think I picked up on that a little bit. My mom, I mentioned she was a seamstress and she taught sewing and she did wedding dresses, only brocaded silk, you know, things. She didn't knit them, she crocheted them, she sewed them.
00:23:33
Speaker
And she did a lot of her stuff in metric, I believe for the same reason. And I remember that she did a lot of tailored suit jackets for men and shirts. And I know she did all those in metric. And I think it was for the same reason. Yeah, because your measurements are just more precise. So regardless of what the designer wants in the end, I will still often start in metric and then work
00:24:02
Speaker
in that direction, but what I give them is what they ask for. Okay. That makes sense. And if they insist that I do everything in Imperial, that's what I do. Sure. Well, that makes sense. It's their design. Right. I am the collaborator. I am not the designer in that case. And they had a vision of it a certain way. Right. And they want their pattern to look a certain way. And it's, although I will say,
00:24:32
Speaker
that in most cases you talk to the designer, they are more than happy for you to start in metric because just like you and just like me, they recognize that it is more precise and they're going to want to contain both in pattern anyway. Yeah, it just makes more sense to me. It makes so little sense to do just imperial in this world because
00:25:02
Speaker
The United States is the last holdout for switching to metric, even though there are still some countries that their manufactured clothing is still done in imperial. Right. I even know my, you know, I used to anyway, I can't remember if I do it now, but my shoe size, my dress size and everything in metric, you know, over in European, like in France or in England, you know, different places like that.
00:25:31
Speaker
I still can't quite get my head around European size shoes and what my size is in European size shoes. But that's because I'm 61 years old and I've done it one way all my life. Right. And I've ordered shoes online forever. So I see I have such a hard foot to to fit because of my shoes and stuff. Yeah. OK, so here's a couple of more questions and then we can be done.
00:26:01
Speaker
Pretend I want to do this grading for myself. I just want to take the plunge and do it myself and learn something along the way. Question number one, do I need a computer and software to do the grading? Very short answer, no. While it's easier with certain software, spreadsheets in particular, it is perfectly okay and
00:26:31
Speaker
many people do with paper and pencil. There are even moments that I'm questioning the math on the computer. And I will take a paper and pencil and a calculator and I will sit there and I will figure and is this really coming out the way it's supposed to? Or have I typed that formula wrong and
00:26:56
Speaker
I'm getting something that's way off. So no, you don't need one. It is helpful. OK, so if anyone out there is thinking about this greeting thing and they're like, oh, I could never do it by myself. I don't have the fancy software. You're saying they could do it themselves, right? Oh, yeah, definitely. OK. And if they do want to do it with software, they don't have to do it with the most expensive software. OK, well, that leads me to my second question. Then if they wanted to find some software to work on this, what would you recommend?
00:27:26
Speaker
As much as I hate to say it, my number one recommendation is Microsoft Excel. The reason is because the formulas in Excel are more advanced than any other spreadsheet program. That said, if you are on an Apple computer, Apple automatically comes with their version of Excel, which is called numbers. Yes, I know it popped up on my
00:27:53
Speaker
computer the other day. Yep. And it actually works very, very well. It can be a little trickier to find some of the formulas, but I've, I've used it for pattern editing and all of the formulas are actually there. They're just a little buried a little deeper and it is a simpler program. It's not really as in depth as Excel.
00:28:23
Speaker
If you can't access that, if you are on a PC, you can't afford Excel, you can use Google Sheets. Again, some of the formulas are missing and formatting is way more challenging. So it would just be easier to use a pencil and paper at that point, right? No, if you're good at Google Sheets, it's a perfectly adequate system.
00:28:53
Speaker
find it more challenging to do the same things because the, I think in part for me, it may be lag time because you do something and because it's internet based, it takes longer for that same thing to happen. And so I'm not sure it's really happened. And then in the end I've messed it up.
00:29:18
Speaker
That would be me. That would be me, impatient. But if you have good internet access and you teach yourself Google Sheets, it's a perfectly adequate way of doing your grading. So pretty much.
00:29:35
Speaker
the average knitter out there might have a lot of the tools that they would need to do this, except I'm assuming that if they're going to be doing this, they are going to need size charts. And where could they find those? There are a number of places to find really good size charts for free. Jill Walcott knits, and I will throw in here a little bit of a sneak peek. We will be talking with Jill in our next episode.
00:30:05
Speaker
She has size charts available for free in her blog. They are strictly women's sizes, but they're the full range of misses to plus sizes. She has two, two different charts or three different charts and they're really good charts. She has spent a lot of time building those charts. So there are some of my favorites.
00:30:33
Speaker
Isola Teague has charts on her website as well that are available for free. She has done a lot of research, actual taking people's body measurements. She did a research thing where she reached out and said, hey, send me these measurements on your body. And she plugged them into charts and built charts from almost from scratch, not entirely, but almost. Wow.
00:31:02
Speaker
really helpful. And she does have men's and children's, which is an advantage. The craft yarn council has their standards guide, which includes standard measurements for women, men, and children. They are limited. The craft yarn council's size, I don't really like using them
00:31:30
Speaker
because there's too wide a range between one size and the next. Can I ask you a stupid question about that for just a minute? Sure. This is personal. And if people want to listen in, that's fine. Children sizing, where does it start? Where does it stop? I know toddler, infant, and all that stuff. But I'm talking about children sizing. And do they make a differentiation between boys and girls? Yes.
00:31:55
Speaker
Okay. There is definitely a difference between boys and girls, especially as they get into the older ranges. Correct. Um, when I say children's sizing, usually it's about eight age 12. Okay. That's what I thought. It varies a little bit here and there as to how it applies. But then as a parent, I will tell you,
00:32:24
Speaker
that it depends a lot on the child. It does, I know. My poor youngest finally hit five feet recently and was absolutely celebrating because as she turned 16, she was finally five feet tall. Yay. Quite a milestone for her. So following children's sizes for her lasted a lot longer than they did for the boys who, while still on the short side for
00:32:54
Speaker
males. It's just kind of a family thing. They grew out of the children's sizing a little faster than she did. Although, quite frankly, if their waists were better, well, actually, it's leg length that is the problem. Their waists are still kid sizes. Their legs are not.
00:33:18
Speaker
Yep, I have one of those. I have one of those. And why they don't make a pair of jeans that is less than a 26 inch waist with the longer legs. I meant to say 28 inch waist, although my boys could wear a 26. In this day and age is beyond me. But to be honest, if you look around, the kids I see are
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, the U.S. has gotten very overweight. Yes. And so manufacturers are leaning towards the heavier sizes and not considering those that are. No, I just wondered for sure what you were including in children's sizing because it can, boys and girls make a big difference. Yes. There's usually separate charts for both boys and girls, just like there are for men's and women's. There is not separate for
00:34:17
Speaker
boys and girls, if you look at infants and toddlers, right? No, you get down that low and they're all the same. And all the little baby little blobs. Right. So usually what you will find is infants and toddlers. That'll be one size chart. Right. And then you'll have the boys charts and the girls charts, which is children's. And then you have, um, misses and plus size for women's. And sometimes you will have men's and big men's for men.
00:34:48
Speaker
A lot of times you'll find just one chart for the men's. It might be a little bit. I'm familiar. Larger. You know, there might be a few more X sizes than you would say find in a Mrs chart. I really don't think they're adequate yet though. I think they're really missing the larger end.
00:35:12
Speaker
on the methods. I know they are. I have one of those. It's my house. Yeah. But the size charts themselves are not accommodating for the big man. And I've yet to find a really good big man's chart. Now that said, the one last source for size charts is not free. It is the ASTM.
00:35:39
Speaker
which is the American Society for Testing and Materials. And after a conversation we recently had, I had to go look that up. I know, right? I was thinking, are we like all cars and walls and stuff? No. Yeah. And it is standards for many, many things.
00:36:01
Speaker
I thought it was American sizing. And then I thought, no, it's American standards. But even that was wrong. It's American sizing for testing and materials. And they have standards charts for all types of manufacturing. It's just tons and tons. The problem with ASTM size charts is A, they're still not extensive enough.
00:36:27
Speaker
B, they haven't been modified in probably 50 years. So they really don't account for the body shapes that we have today. Absolutely not, yeah. And C, they're very expensive. I'd heard that, yeah. There's two size charts for women's sizes. There's Mrs. and there's Plus.
00:36:54
Speaker
And between the two size charts, you will spend well over $200. That does not include any of the other size charts. And in doing research for today's discussion, I went back to their site to look, they have dropped the children's sizes completely. You can no longer purchase them. Well, that's weird. Which is devastating.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's bizarre. Yeah, actually.
Sizing Chart Resources
00:37:28
Speaker
So that's for standard body sizes. Their woolly worm head has some really great hat size charts. Fabulous. And again, she's one of those that has actually reached out to her knitting public and said, measure your head in these places and send me your measurements. And then she
00:37:53
Speaker
took that information and developed her own size charts. And she has measurements on that chart you will find nowhere else. So perhaps it's a wonderful resource. Interesting. And so Lisa, you're going to have all these links and everything on the show notes? Oh, yes, definitely. Definitely. Especially for the free sources, the ASTM moves things around.
00:38:21
Speaker
I will put links in for the size charts that I can but I will warn people if you're not listening to this within say a six month time frame of its release you may find the links I've given you have changed. So I will give you titles and product code numbers and when you go to their website if the link doesn't work
00:38:48
Speaker
plug those into their search engine and it will tell you whether it's still available or not. Wow. Well, this has all been really exciting information. Is there anything else you want to add before I have to go grab my laundry? Yep. There is one more site that I want to mention. It's called Knit It Now. It's for machine knitters and they have the full range of sizing. And if I'm not mistaken, that's where I found glove sizing.
00:39:15
Speaker
interesting glove sizing because i have dinky little hands yeah yes for a tall woman your hands are fairly small aren't they my hands and my feet i know it's my only claim to fame the rest of it we're not going to talk about
00:39:28
Speaker
You're just a tall woman. It's not like you're a big woman. You're just tall. You haven't seen me lately. All right, dear. Well, sweetie, I got it. Yeah, my washer just done spin out for the last time and I'm going to go change my laundry around. But I really wanted to get this grading information.
00:39:46
Speaker
Because I think it's very appropriate for today because, like you said, it is new.
Teaser for Upcoming Episode
00:39:52
Speaker
And I think that there are a lot more designers. I mean, it's like, it seems like it's happening in droves. Size inclusivity has become a really big thing in knit design. Very big. And to let everybody know and let you know, we'll be talking a little bit more about this in our next episode with Jill Walcott because she is
00:40:15
Speaker
one of the premier in this area. She was excellent to talk to. I think the readers listen to me. I'm an author. I think the listeners are going to be excited to hear her. I really do. All right, dear. Well, you go take care of your laundry. Have a great day and we will chat again soon. Okay, Lisa. Thanks for your time, sweetie. Bye. Bye.
00:40:39
Speaker
Denise and I are very excited to share our interview with Jill Walcott for Episode 8, so please remember to like, follow, or subscribe.
00:40:55
Speaker
So just to wrap up, remember you can reach us through our Facebook or our Ravelry group at our email at knitdesignedit at gmail.com. And if you would like to learn more about tech editing or grading or other services that I provide, please visit my website at arcticedits.com.